vndoubted To this one argument M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to answere truely and directly You adde yet farther Christe wil be euermore with his Churche yea though the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him It is true M. Iewel And therefore this being a matter impossible that the whole Churche of Rome should be hable to deface Christes Gospel or to defeate Christ of his promise it must needes folow that where you say the Pope hath blinded the whole worlde you haue said most vntruly and haue auouched that thing which by your owne confession in this place was not possible to be done Againe seing that though the whole Churche of Rome conspired against Christe yet Christe wil be euermore with his Churche and these many hundred yeres Christ hath had no other Churche then the Churche of Rome for the Pope you say hath blinded the whole worlde and D. Luther began to publish the Gospel a general darkenesse going before it must needes folowe that the same Church of Rome was the true Church of Christ that the said Church neuer coÌ„spired against Christ that the Pope neuer blinded nor was euer hable to blinde the whole worlde briefely that the same whiche you cal blindnesse was good sight and that which you cal darkenesse was cleare light Verely either so must it be or Christes promise must faile Of the which promise of Christ and of a number of other sayinges in the Psalmes in the Prophetes and in the Gospel affirming and confirming the same it hath ben largely and sufficiently treated in the foresaid Treatise intituled The Fortresse of our first Faith annexed to the Historie of venerable Bede of late translated into Englishe If you M. Iewel or any of your fellowes wil auoide this argument that proueth a knowen continuance of Christes Church answer to the first parte of that booke If you can not auoide that one Argument your newe doctrine is plainely proued to be false and heretical and the Faith of our Forefathers is plainely proued to be the Faith of the true and onely Catholike Churche of Christe in earth You pretende as if ye had aduantage for that I spake but of a thousand yeres For thus you inferre Iewel ibidem Pag. 32. But vvhy do you so much abate your reckening VVhy make you not vp your ful accompte of fifteene hundred three skore and sixe yeres as ye vvere vvont to doo Ye haue here liberally and of your selfe quite striken of fiue hundred three skore and sixe yeres Harding That we haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres as M. Iewel cauilleth You say vntruly M. Iewel The. 8. Chapt. I haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres c. But I and others doo God be praised defende and mainteine the Catholique Faithe no lesse by the Doctours and witnesses of the first fiue hundred yeres then by the Doctours and Witnesses of these last thousand yeres Yea Sir it is wel knowen to them that haue perused bothe our labours that you allege moe writers of these later ages by ten to one then either we doo of the same or your selfe doo of the first fiue hundred yeres It is wel knowen our writinges are confirmed with the authoritie of the Fathers of the firste fiue hundred yeres We allege very seldome the writers of these later ages condescending herein to your infirmities whiche through weakenes of Faith doo reiecte these later Fathers as too yonge and require to be persuaded onely by the Doctours and Councelles of the first sixe hundred yeres And herein we doo willingly omitte the greate aduantage whiche we might haue if we should presse you with the Writers of these later ages This is wel knowen M. Iewel to al that knowe any thing in matters of these common controuersies We haue Gods holy name be blessed largely and aboundantly prooued the Reall Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse the Popes Primacie the vse of Images the Confession of sinnes to the Prieste the Inuocation of Saintes the Praying for the dead the Churche seruice in the two learned tongues Greeke and Latine and such other matters by you nowe brought into Controuersie we haue sufficiently prooued them I saye by the Doctours and Councels of the first sixe hundred yeres wittingly and willingly a very fewe places excepted absteining from the Writers of these last thousand yeres not bicause we refuse them or contemne them but bicause ye refuse them that we might seeme to vse the better meanes to persuade you whose couersion we seeke and labour for You say therefore vntruly that I haue liberally of my selfe quite striken of fiue hundred yeres c. The cause why I named but these last thousand yeres your selfe I am sure are not ignorant of But so it liked you to dallye and to answer a most earnest and important question with trifling toyes cauilles and wranglinges It was your exception M. Iewel and prescription of the first sixe hundred yeres It was your lewde contempte of these later ages It was your blasphemous assertion condemning the Churche of Christe so many hundred yeres of Idolatrie superstition and palpable darckenes which made me to chalenge you with Christes promise for the Continuance of his Churche these last thousand yeres If you denie this to be your opinion of the last thousand yeres beside your prescription insinuating no lesse of the nine hundred beside your former wordes of Luthers first publishing of the Gospel for so you terme your wicked Heresies your owne wordes in this place doo signifie no lesse For thus you saie euen in this page Iewel Verely in the iudgement of the Godly fiue hundred of those first yeres are more vvorthe then the vvhole thousand yeres that folovved aftervvarde Harding This comparison is odious The commendatioÌ„ of the first fiue hundred yeres in comparison of the later ages and litle becommeth a ChristiaÌ„ maÌ„ If you speake of learning and vertue though the comparison be odious yet is it more tolerable For learning and vertue may seeme to haue excelled more in those former ages then in these later specially vertue and holines of life when as the bloude that Chriâ—â— shed for redemption of the worlde seemed to mennâ—â— hartes yet fresh and warme as in a place S. Augustine writeth And therefore those tymes brought foorth moe Martyrs As touching learning it muste also be confessed that moe Doctours in both tongues then excelled The north partes of the world coÌ„uerted in these later ages This without preiudice to the learned Bishoppes and Godly people of Christendom in so longe a time afterwarde might perhappes to the commendation of Antiquitie be graunted Howbeit it is not vnknowen to the learned that in these later thousand yeres the Northe partes of the worlde being many large and sauage Countries haue benne brought to the faith of Christe many Bishoppes and Monkes of excellent learning and of great perfection of life haue flourished many Martyrs also haue suffred as al histories and Chronographies doo
is that you adde that our doctrine is forsaken the worlde through No M. Iewel not so Gods holy name be blessed it is not yet forsaken al England through We knowe it right wel we praise God for it and reioise therein You know it also and it greeueth you at the harteful deepely and specially that diuers haue returned from your lying Religion to the truthe of the Catholique Faithe euen in these last yeres when ye semed to haue most prospered in the sight of the worlde Suche is the nature of truth the more it is pressed downe the more it riseth vp A lie impudently auouched by M. Ievvel and sheweth it selfe Had our doctrine ben forsaken the world through your Gues I trowe in these lowe Countries and your Huguenotes in Fraunce had prospered better But what wil not you sticke to auouch which so boldely yea so impudently doo auouche such a knowen Vntruthe Vntruthe Nay so sensible and so palpable a Lie The Catholique doctrine not only contineweth in Italie FrauÌ„ce Spaine Portugal and Germanie in whole Countries and Territories but euen where your brethâ—â—n are thickest there lacke not Catholiques right many and perfitte among them Yea the Catholique doctrine is preached and published among heathens and Infidelles to the great glorie of God and to the great despite of the deuill and his ministers as it wel appeareth by your selfe M. Iewel and by your wordes whiche before I haue touched If our doctrine be forsaken the worlde through where are we M. Iewel against whom you write so busily Are we out of the worlde Where was the late general Councel with so many Bishoppes learned Doctours and Princes Ambassadours there present al condemning your hainous heresies Were they al out of the world or haue they al now changed their minde and yelded vnto you Maximilian the noble Emperour King Philip of Spaine with al his so sundry and so large Dominions besides the kingdome of Naples and Sicilia the Dukedomes of Millan Burgundie Brabant Holland Zeland Friseland Gelderland the Counties of Tyrol Flaunders Henault and Artois Charles king of Fraunce the kinges of Portugal and of Polonia The states and Princes of Italie with also many Dukedomes Free Citties States of Christendome besides al yet remaining Catholique are they al out of the worlde I can not tel whether I may cal this lye more impudent or more foolish Iewel Pag. 50. Neither there any sufficient cause to the contrarie but that Berâ—â—garius Iohn VViclef Iohn Hus D. Luther Zuinglius Oâ—colampadius and others either for learning or for truth or for iâ—â—â—â—ment in the Scriptures or for Antiquitie may vvel and safely bâ— coâ—pared vvith Lanfrancus Guimundus Abbas Cluniacensis Thoâ—â—â— VValdensis Iohn Fisher and others Harding What difference there is betwen these holy Fathers and those pestilent Heretiques The. 17. Chapt. No no Sir the oddes is exceding great Berengarius Wiclef Hus Luther Zuinglius and Oecolampadius non comunicabant oiÌ„bus gentibus illis Ecclesiis Apostolico labore fundatis Aug. cont Lit. Petil. lib. 2. cap. 16. did not coÌ„municate with al nations and those Churches which were founded by the Apostles labour Nay by the ful and intier coÌ„sent of al nations Christened assembled in general Councelles they were al condemned Berengarius in the great general Councel of Lateran Anno. 1205. Wiclef and Hus in the general Councel of Constance Anno. 1413. Luther and the rest among whom you may take your selfe for one in the late General Councel of Trent Contrariewise the other Fathers communicated with the whole corps of Christendome then liuing They were Bisshoppes and Doctours of that age lineally succeding in the Catholique doctrine euen from the Apostles and the Apostolike menne Againe these said Fathers are accompted and placed in honorable roumes as Lumina Ecclesiae lightes of the Churche in al Chronographies yea made and written by the Protestantes them selues namely by Henricus Pantaleon of Basil and others of your secte Berengarius on the other side with al the rest are noted in the Chronographies drawen out by ProtestaÌ„tes them selues in the rewe and line of condemned heretiques Thirdly what comparison is there betwen lewde lecherous Luther and that holy Bisshop B. Fisher and blessed Martyr of God Doctour Fisher late Bisshop of Rochester The very writinges of bothe extant doo declare the diuersitie of their spirites Luther taketh his pleasure in Ribaudrie belketh out filthinesse breatheth rancour raileth and reuelleth against the honorable states of the worlde beyonde al measure euen against thâ—t Prince him selfe that afterwarde prepared the waie for your heresies to procede lustily King Heâ—â—ie the eight The writinges of D. Fisher are wel knowen to be modest piththy and learned and at this present highly esteemed in al Christendome So are the writinges of Lanfrancus Guimundus and Cluniacensis Of the others we haue but names only leaft except Luther with the two others whose writinges yet no doubte if euer Goddes truth preuaile wil also at length come to nought and haue the like fortune as the bookes of al other heretikes haue had Iewel Pag. 50. The Councelles ye meane are very nevve and therefore beare the lesse Authoritie for that they be so many vvaies contrarie to the olde Certainely there is none of your errours so grosse and palpable but by some of your late Councelles it hath benne confirmed Harding The causes examined for which M. Iewel alloweth not the Councelles of these last 500. yeres The. 18. Chapt. Guli MalmesburieÌ„ lib. 3. de gestis Anglorum Guimundus Al. gerus lib. 1 de Sacramentis Platina in Innocentio 3. Tyrius lib. 21. cap. 26 Guido Carmelita de haeresibus Platina Palmerius Nauclerus Three causes then there are if I vnderstand you wel why you and your felowes so saucily doo condemne the General Councelles holden in Christendome within these last fiue hundred yeres as the Councelles holden at Toures in Fraunce at S. Iohn Lateran in Rome that vnder Nicolaus 2. to the number of 114. Bishoppes this vnder Innocentius 3. whereunto Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes and Abbates out of al partes of Christendome resorted to the number of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers in al which the doctrine of Berengarius was condemned Also the other General Councel holden at S. Iohn Lateran at an other time to the number of 300. Bishoppes both of the East and the West Churche where the Waldenses your brethren were condemned the Councel of Constance where the doctrine of Wiclef and Hus was condemned to the number of 270. Bishoppes last of al the General Councel of Trent to the number of 198. Bishoppes where sundry of your present heresies were after mature discussion with ful consent accursed and condemned Al these and diuers other Councelles for three causes you contemne and despise First for that they are very newe Secondly for that they are contrary to the olde Thirdly bicause al our errours haue benne confirmed in them Your first cause implieth a
authoritie to any heresie or errour I denie vtterly neither shal M. Iewel or any of his felowes what so euer be hable to proue the contrarie That any where I haue tolde them sadly and in good earnest that the bishop of Rome is a king if he meane the expresse name of a King I tel him here eftsones sadly and in good earnest and without Saulue la vostre that it is a starke lye Confut. fol. 280. a. The pope hath kingly power yet is he no king In the first place of my Confutation by him coted I say The pope hath a kingly power ouer his owne subiectes euen in temporal thinges and now I tel you here for example he hath it as Moyses had yet he taketh not vpon him to be a King nor chalengeth vnto him that title Neither doth he in his owne person bicause he acknowlegeth him selfe to be no King exercise the function and office of a King but committeth such charge vnto other Laye persons If ye enuie the Pope his kingly power and possessions whiche he holdeth by right beware you be not at length thought vnworthy and remoued from the landes of a Baron and the Earledom of S. Osmunde whiche you holde vnduely If that happen to come to passe where then shal we finde your good Lordship In the other place of the Confutation vpon occasion geuen by wordes of the Apologie I say that the Pope maie rule temporally Confut. fol. 305. b. and more there say I not touching this matter Item there Iewel That vnto him belongeth the right of bothe Svvordes as vvel Temporal as spiritual Confut. fol. 247. b. Harding What so euer I bring in my Confutation concerning both Swordes committed vnto the Successour of S. Peter it is S. Bernardes it is not myne Wheras the Apologie maker were it M. Iewel or who so euer it was by the multitude of the light scoffes it appeareth that he was the Penneman of it mary the stuffe I heare say was gathered by the whole Brotherhead whereas I say he steppeth forth very peartly and saith thus Confut. fo 247. a. I haue a special fansie to common a worde or two with the Popes good Holinesse and to say these thinges vnto his owne face Tel vs I praie you good holy Father c. Which of the Fathers euer said that bothe the Swordes were committed vnto you To this question the answere I make in the Popes behalfe is this Confut. fo 247. b. L. Si quis C. d. test Of the Popes teÌ„poral Svvorde De Considerat li. 4 Math. 26. Let S. Bernard writing to a Pope answer for the Pope He is a sufficient witnesse Where your selfe doo allege him much against the Pope you can not by the lawe iustly refuse him speaking for the Pope The spiritual sworde you denie not I trowe Of the temporal sworde belonging also to the Pope thus saith S. Bernarde to Eugenius He that denieth this sworde to be thine seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the worde of our Lorde saying thus to Peter thy predecessour put vp thy sworde in the scaberd The very same then is also thine to be drawen forth perhappes at thy becke though not with thy hande Elles if the same belonged in no wise vnto thee where as the Apostles said Lucae 22. The Churche hath both svvordes by S. Bernard beholde there be two swordes here Our Lorde would not haue answered it is yenough but it is to muche So bothe be the Churches the spiritual sworde and the material But this to be exercised for the Churche and that of the Churche That by the hande of the Priest this of the souldier but verely at the becke of the Priest and commaundement of the Emperour Thus touching the Popes bothe swordes you are fully answered by S. Bernarde I trust you wil not be so vncourteous as to put him beside nor so parcial as to allow him when he seemeth to make some shewe for you and to refuse him when he is found plaine contrarie to your false assertions Vpon this place of S. Bernarde M. Iewel in the Defence sitting forsooth M. Iewels graue sentence pronounced against S. Bernarde Defence pag. 528. Ibidem as it were vpon the Benche like a Iudge hauing power to geue sentence either of life or of death saith ful grauely and Iudgelike and pronounceth this sentence S. Bernarde saith The Pope hath bothe swordes But S. Bernardes authoritie in this case is but simple But why I praie you Sir Iudge Marke the cause and profounde reason of this Iudge He liued saith he eleuen hundred yeeres after Christes Ascension in the time of King Henry the first the King of England in the middes of the Popes route and tyrannie And shal we for this cause shake of S. Bernarde Then why maie we not as wel sitte in Iudgement vpon M. Iewel and in like sorte but with more reason pronounce this sentence M. Iewel saith the bodie of Christe is not in the Euchariste the bodie and bloude of Christe are not to be adored in the Sacrament The Churche hath no externall Sacrifice no external Priesthod Praier made for the dead is vaine and superstitious There be not seuen Sacramentes but onely two and by the same grace is not conferred or geuen but onely signified The Pope is Antichriste and al that holde the olde Faith of the Churche who are Papistes perteine to the Kingdome of Antichriste c. But M. Iewels authoritie in these cases is but simple He liued almost sixteen hundred yeeres after Christe and is yet aliue in the time of Quene Elizabeth the Quene of England in the middes of the Caluinistes route and tyrannie The same sentence with a smal change of wordes maie with like reason be pronounced vppon Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bucer Caluine Beza Baudie Bale Hooper Cranmare and the rest of that wicked route It were a thing worthy to be knowen why S. Bernarde should be condemned in respecte of his age and of the route whiche this man telleth vs the Popes then bare and these Apostates should be beleeued and honoured with al mennes assent yelded to their sayinges and teachinges their age being foure hundred yeeres later the tyranny crueltie vilanie and outrage whiche in sundry places by them of that side is vsed farre surmounting any what so euer seueritie of gouernement whiche the Popes vsed in that time their learning not equal with the learning of S. Bernarde their witte muche inferiour to his of eithers vertue and good life what shal I speake To compare theirs with his it were a kinde of blasphemie so holy a Father was he so dissolute Apostates are these Item there Iewel That all kinges and Emperours receiue their vvhole povver at his hande and ought to svveare obedience and Fealtie to the Pope For these be his vvordes euen in this bâ—rke so boldly dedicated vnto your Maiestie It is a great eye soare saith M. Harding to the ministers of Antichriste to see the
lib. coÌ„t 9. sectas In the booke in tituled Recta fides de Caena Domin nor by writinges nor by worde nor by deede as the Lord hath commaunded whether he be Zuenckfeldius or Zuinglius or what soeuer he be called And in an other place he condemneth by name Zuinglius Carolostadius and Oecolampadius with al their diuers and dissonant sacramentarie heresies Nicolaus Amsdorffius a famous Superindent in Germanie saith thus plainely Thirdely we condemne the Sacramentaries Zuinglius and his felowes The publike write of the princes of Mansfeld and of the yonger princes of Saxonie doth recken vp in the rolle of condemned Heretiques the Sacramentaries by name Ioachimus Westphalus saith No false doctrine is so farre spred none with such labour and hypocrisie is defended â—oâ—e hath more beguiled the worlde then this false doctrine of the blessed Sacrament meaning Caluines owne doctrine learned first of Berengarius of whom you haue no cause you saie to be ashamed If Heretiques of your own schoole can not make you ashamed of Berengarius and his doctrine what say you to the great General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome vnder Innocentius the third CouÌ„cel of Laterane thereof called Concilium Lateranense That Councel was an vniuersal assemblie out of al partes of Christendom Platina in InnoceÌ„tio tertio The great Assemblie of Laterane Councel as wel out of the Greeke Church as out of the Latine The Patriarkes of Constantinople and Hierusalem were there present Archebishoppes were there threescore and ten Bishoppes foure hundred and twelue Abbates and Priores more then eight hundred There were at that Councel the Ambassadours of both Emperours both of the West Churche and of the East also of the kinges of Hierusalem of Fraunce of Spaine of England and of Cyprus In this Councel so general and vniuersal the Heresie of Berengarius was condemned Concil Lateran Cap. 1. and the doctrine of Transubstantiation by occasion of his heresie exactly and fully discussed was by general consent of al plainely and clearely confirmed If the Sentence Consent and Accorde of the whole vniuersal Church can moue you M. Iewel then haue you good cause to be ashamed of Berengarius whose heresie was in so ful ample and General a Councel condemned as none in this worlde was euer greater If al this moue you not yet let Berengarius him selfe De Consecrat Dist 2. Ego BereÌ„garius whom you esteme so muche moue you to be ashamed of his doctrine of the whiche he him selfe was so muche ashamed at length and not onely in iudgement openlâ— recanted but also 〈◊〉 the houre of his Death ful bitterlâ— and hartily repented him selfe thereof as by sides otherâ— Guilelmus Malmesburiensis recordeth saying thus Guilelmus Malmesburiensis de gastis Anglorum lib. 3. Ipse Berengarius die Epiphaniorum moriens gâ—â—iâ—â—â— producto recordatus quot miseros quondam adolescenâ— primo errâ—ris â—alâ—tâ— secta infecerit bodie inquit in die Apparitionis suae apparabit mihi Dominus meus Iesus Christus vel propter poenitentiam vt spero ad gloriam vel propter alios vt timeâ— ad poenam Nos sanè credimus post benedictionem Ecclesiasticam illa Mysteria esse verum corpus sanguinem saluatoris adducti veteris Ecclesiae authoritate maltis noâ—iter ostensis miraculis Berengâ—rius himselfe as he laie dying vpon the Epiphanie daie whiche we cal Twelfth daie and with heauy be wailing called vnto remembrance how many miserable personnes he had infected with his heresie in youth at the firste heatâ— of the Sacramentarie Errour spake these wordes He alluded to the vvord Epiphanie vvhiche signifieth appearing or reuealiÌ„g This daie my Lorde Iesus Christe being the daie of his appearance shal appeare vnto me either to glorie as I truste bicause it repenteth me of my heresie or to pounishment as I feare me for the sake of others whom I haue seduced What so euer it shal please God to doe with me Truely I beleeue that after Consecration vsed in the Churche those Mysteries are the true Bodie and Bloude of our Sauiour being persuaded both by the authoritie of the auncient Churche and by many Miracles shewed of late yeres Thus ye maie see how so euer ye be not ashamed of Berengarius that yet Berengarius is ashamed of you Iewel Pag. 48. But as for your doctrine bicause it is only of your selues therefore it falleth daily and is novv forsaken the vvorlde through Harding Our doctrine is the doctrine of the Fathers not of our selues neither is the same forsaken The Catholique doctrine The .16 Chapt. The Fathers of the first 600. yeres reiected In institut Cap. 18. de coena Domi. Iacobus Acontius StratageÌ„ Sathan lib. 6. whiche you cal oures hath ben by your owne Confession welneare a thowsand yeres olde I cal your Confession your solemne prescription of the first .600 yeres For prescribing the one ye renounce the other It can not therefore seeme to be of vs that liue now whiche by your owne Confession hath ben so auncient Howbeit it is euident the first 600. yeres stande as fully for vs as doo the later Therefore Iohn Caluine accuseth the first 600. yeres of Iudaisme and of Iewish superstition namely in the matter of the blessed Sacrifice Therefore Iacobus Acontius one of your owne side in his booke dedicated to the Quenes Maiestie plainely misliketh and reproueth such as offer to be tried by the auncient Fathers calling it perniciosissimam omninoque fugiendam consuetudinem a most pernicious custome and altogether to be auoided Therefore M. Nowel as this Acontius calleth it a * Valde amplum spatium Novvel in the preface of his first booke large scope to trie matters by the Fathers And he that hath vttered so muche blasphemie against the Crosse of Christe for his parte also protesteth plainely In the booke against the Cross that he wil not be tried by the Fathers And why al this M. Iewel Mary thâ—y know â—ight wel that by the Fathers you are condemned and that our doctrine by them is clearely established Wâ— therefore haue learned of our Auncestours al that we teache We haue inuented nothing of our selues Your beginning is knowen and is yet in mannes memorie When Papistrie as you cal it beganne you can neuer 〈◊〉 for your life The Gospelleâ— I shal neuer be haÌ„ble to shevv vvhen Papistrie beganne otherwise then with the beginning of Christes gospel Shewe once M. Iewel when in what age in what place Countrie Citie or Churche of whom vnder what Pope Emperour or Prince Papistrie beganne and then saie hardely it is our Doctrine and only of our selues Except you shewe this your lie wil seme palpable If ye haue ought to shew for the worship of your cause bring it forth be it but one sentence or one halfe sentence The Catholique doctrine vntruly reported by M. Ievvel to be forsaken al the vvorld through In like manner a sensible and a palpable lie it
Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither art thou onely the Pastour of al the sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours Demaundest thou of me howe I prooue it Forsooth out of the woorde of God Ioan. 21. For I praie you to whom I wil not saie of the Bisshoppes but also of the Apostles were al the sheepe so absolutely and indeterminately committed If thou loue me Peter feede my sheepe whiche sheepe The people of this or of that citie of this or of that countrie or kingdome My sheepe quod he Who now doth not euidently see that Christe did not appointe him certaine but assigned him al Where no distinction is made there nothing is excepted Thus you see how litle cause you had to saie why doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely without farther authoritie Iewel Pag. 103. And if this so large Commission be to Feede and feede so many vvhy then doth the Pope feede so litle Harding The Pope feedeth and why Christe appointed him to be his Vicare The stubbornesse of Heretiques is a lette The .18 Chapt. that his diligent feeding can not take place in many Howe manie Articles of the Christian Doctrine had the peruersitie of Heretiques wrapped vp in a Confusion and brought in doubte that fewe menne knewe howe to vnfolde them The Popes diligent feeding hath so by General Councelles through his authoritie and care assembled vnfolded and disclosed all the false craftes and sleightes of Heretiques that nowe euery man that wil maie haue in a readinesse by perusing the Canons of the Councelles what Doctrine is true and holesome what is false and heretical Of late yeares he emploied his diligence in calling all The Pope feedeth but some refuse his good foode and feede of Poison the Protestantes vnto the Councel of Trent he gaue them safe Conductes to come and departe without danger of their personnes and there during the time of their abode to propone argue and dispute of the pointes in cōtrouersie with al freedome VVhy the Ministers of England vvēt not to the General Councel at Trent most liberal and free Safe cōductes being graunted them But ye of England knowing your owne weaknesse and that ye were not so wel hable to prooue your doctrine in learned Assemblies as ye were with boasting Chalenges and bolde talkes to prate it out of pulpites emong the ignorant at home least with shame ye should there haue ben put to silence and prooued vnlearned wylily absented your selues Notwithstanding libertie was geuen you to come and saie for your Gospel what ye could and as it appeareth in the Actes of the same to frame your safe Conducte if ye desliked the fourme set foorth in the Councel in as ample manner for your owne safegarde and benefite as ye could deuise Iewel Pag. 103. Againe vvhere learned M. Harding to reason thus Christe is ascended into heauen Ergo the Pope is head of the vvhole vvorlde Harding Nay where learned M. Iewel to fashon suche peeuish argumentes of his owne deuise and fathering them vpon his Aduersarie to scoffe at them as if they were of his Aduersaries making If this Argument be naught let him amend it that framed it If it be ridiculous the Reader may see what a ridiculous head he hath that brought it forth My reason dependeth in this sorte If it had pleased Christ to haue remained here visibly emong vs alwaies and to haue taken continual order him selfe for the external gouernment of the Churche we should not haue needed any other general head but Christe him selfe who had ben sufficient But for asmuch as Christes bodily and visible presence through his Ascension was for good purposes taken awaie from vs that we might haue better occasion to exercise faith and the holy Sacramentes it was needeful that in his steede he should leaue some one General Vicegerent In. 24. caput Luca. and Vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose termeth him that should haue ful authoritie to rule the whole Churche The partes of this reason are wel linked together both by diuinitie and also by logique As M. Iewel hath framed it it serueth for nothing but to make sporte emong Prentises I allege not Christes Ascension for the ful and sufficient cause of hauing one general Head as M. Iewel would beare menne in hande if any be so simple to beleeue him The cause vvhy Christe hath placed his Vicare here in his stede Ambros in 24. cap. Lucae but as the occasion why he should place an other in the absence of his Visible person in his steede The necessitie of the Churche that disorder and confusion be auoided and that vnitie be kepte considered together with the great loue that Christe hath to the Churche is the ful cause why Christe placed in his steede a general Vicegerent Vicarium amoris sui the vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose calleth him Iewel Ibidem But ye saie God speaketh not novv vnto vs mouth to mouth c. Harding What rule is like to be if the Scripture be made ruler and gouernour Your drifte is in this place The. 19. Chapt. to put the whole gouernment of the Church quite from the Pope whom Chrysostome as I haue tolde you before taketh to be the vniuersal Head bicause he is S. Peters Successour and to driue vs to deliuer the whole rule vnto the Scripture and that being remoued quite from any one certaine sense and leafte to mennes Phantasies to descant vpon it What vnitie and good Order wil folowe thereof they of Germanie ye of England the Lutherans the Zuinglians the Caluinistes the Osiandrines the Zuencfeldians the Anabaptistes the new Puritanes that now spring vp so freshly and other sectes wherewith the worlde swarmeth haue tolde vs already the whiche could neuer yet come to any good vnitie and common agreement Ye leaue vs also an other sorte of gouernours Apostles Ephes 4. Prophetes Euangelistes Pastours and Doctours of whom S. Paule speaketh If these be the Gouernours appointed by holy Scripture how falleth it out that ye contrary to Scripture haue geuen the supreme gouernment of your Church of England to laye Princes some being vnder their nources gouernance some being women The cas◠thus standing if the Ministers agree not in doctrine hovv shal vnitie be made and the people kepte vnpoisoned If these forenamed the Apostles c. be the right gouernours how happeth it that they can doo nothing concerning Order to be taken for the Churche but by authoritie deriued from a mere laie power If these that is to saie the successours of the Apostles Prophetes c. be the right gouernours what if any of these iarre and fal at square emong them selues as it hath oftentimes ben seene either within the compasse of one Realme or in diuers Realmes and doo poison the people with sundry Heresies to whom shal we resorte to haue them called home and reduced vnto order whom haue
al the Christian worlde specially for condemning of the Pope bicause his supreme Authoritie can not beare with sundry your errours and Heresies as against any man in the worlde besides The force of your argument is this Wee maie not beleeue Paule him selfe if he speake any thing of his owne Head thereby to condemne Priestes for their liuing Ergo Peter hath no more authoritie ne no more power to rule then the other Apostles O M. Iewel cal in these argumentes for shame of the worlde why suffered you them to escape your penne That S. Paule said somevvhat of his ovvn 1. Cor. 7. But how saie you Sir Shal you not finde where S. Paule spake of his owne some thing Haue you forgotten who said Nā caeteris ego dico non Dominus For to the reste I saie not our Lorde and yet you must beleeue him if you denie not the Scripture Againe saith he not some thing of worldly reason as you haue translated humanum Rom. 6. where he writeth to the Romaines Humanum dico propter infirmitatem carnis vestrae I speake as one that foloweth the trade of mannes reason for the infirmities sake of your fleshe I trust you wil be intreated to beleeue him Thus how discretely you bring in the Fathers to speake for you I neede not to declare Your owne bad stuffe sheweth it at large The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 5. pag. 108. And as Hierome saithe Al Bishoppes vvhere so euer they be be they at Rome Ad Euagrium De Simplicitate praelator be they at Eugubium be they at Constantinople be they at Rhegium be al of like preeminence and of like priesthood And as S. Cyprian saithe There is but one Bishoprike and a peece thereof is perfitely and vvholy holden of euery particular Bishop Confutation My lady the Interpreter not without the wil and aduise of this Defender hath altered the sense of the latine as the author of the Latine hathe altered the wordes of S. Hierome For neither speaketh S. Hierome of Bishoppes in the plural number neither saith the Latine Apologie that the Bishoppes be al of like preeminence whiche this translation hath but of the same merite and of the same Priesthood c. Iewel Pag. 109. Here to dissemble these childish Cauillations of the altering of Numbers the Singulare into the Plural and of the changing of this vvorde Merite into this vvorde Preeminence vvhiche great faulte if it vvere any by M. Harlinges ovvne Confession proceeded only from the Interpreter and not from the Authour c. Harding Dissemble hardely M. Iewel what ye liste so that with al ye confesse the truth that you are not hable honestly to discharge your selfe of that whiche you passe ouer by dissimulation Suche dissembling shiftes serue your turne not seldome as the which you cā sooner vse then against the truth shape a reasonable answere But leauing aside your dissimulation Tel me I praie you where finde you that euer I confessed that the faulte of chaunging this worde Merite into this worde This vvorde Merite changed by M Ievvel into this vvorde Preeminence Preeminence proceded only from your good lady the Interpreter and not from the Authour Haue not I in plaine wordes tolde you the contrarie Haue I not laid the fault as much vpon the Authour that allowed the Interpretation as your good Maistresse M. C. saith in her epistle as vpon the Lady Interpreter How then can you deliuer the Authour from al blame by myne owne Confession Looke better M. Iewel vpon the booke againe where if you shal finde no suche Confession of myne but the plaine contrarie remember who is not ashamed openly to auouche Vntruthe But it wil not be otherwise you haue by long practise gotten a ful perfite habite thereof Iewel Pag. 109. VVhat S. Hierome meant hereby Erasmus a man of great learning and iudgement expoundeth thus Hieronymus aequare videtur omnes Episcopos inter se c. Harding Erasmus answered Difference founde betwen Deacon and Priest in Order and betwen Bisshop and Bisshop in power of gouernment And is Erasmus in deede a man of suche learning and iudgement The .28 Chapt. as you say If he be howe happeth it that you condemne those articles of religion which he confesseth true He agnised the real presence of Christes body and bloud in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whiche you denie Erasmus against the false Gospellers Aduersus Pseudeuāgelicos fratres inferioris Germaniae Howe happeth it if he be a man of great learning that he wrote so earnest an epistle against the false Gospellers so he calleth them of your side of which number you are How happeth it that he wrote that vehemēt and long Epistle to the Brothers of the Inferiour Germanie cōmonly called the Lowe countrie to beware of al such heresies whiche you and your felowes do now professe If Erasmus be not such a one as you say why do you allege his autoritie whose iudgemēt in sundry articles ye contemne But what hath Erasmus to helpe you in this matter Truely when al is searched nothing at al. Yet by the waie it is to be marked that you would binde vs with Erasmus authoritie a man of our time whom your selfe in diuers Articles as in the approbation of the Masse of the real presence free wil and of such other do greatly dislike yet you wil not sticke to denie vtterly not only the autorities of the Fathers within these last nine hundred yeres but also of them sometimes that wrote within the first six hundred yeres For so do you deale afterward with that holy and great learned Father S. Leo whom you labour to discredit being pressed with the witnesse he geueth of the prerogatiue of the See Apostolike of Rome as though his desire were Pag. 111. as your false surmise is to enioie as great honour as he could for his owne time Haue you no better meane to auoide that Fathers authoritie M. Iewel but by charging him with ambition Where Erasmus saith Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholia in epist Hieronym ad Euagriū that S. Hierome seemeth to put in equal matche al Bishoppes together as if they were al equally the Apostles Successours that parte of his saying you could wel remember but where he saith within fiue lines folowing that the Metropolitane hath a certaine dignitie and Iurisdiction aboue other Bishops whiche taketh awaie the equalitie that you dreamed of your eyes without being called on that parte of the sentence were very loth to see Take the one with the other M. Iewel then is the equalitie of Bishoppes in regiment quite gonne though they remaine equal in the order of Priesthood and in that that the highest Archebisshop in the worlde yea the Pope him selfe is no more a Prieste nor Bishop then is the poore Bishop of Eugubium or who so euer is the lowest Bishop in the worlde though his authoritie to rule and to gouerne be more ample and large then
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
that Leo expoundeth him selfe That which he was him selfe he willed Peter to be named saying Thou arte Peter asmuch to saie thou art a Rocke and vpon this Rocke I wil builde my Church and least we should thinke that Christ gaue him that name onely and not the thing signified by that name Leo addeth further Vt aeterni aedificatio teÌ„pli mirabili munere gratiae Dei in Petri soliditate coÌ„sisteret that the building of his euerlasting Temple should by the marueilous gifte of Goddes grace stande in the foundenesse of Peter Christ is the Rocke Christ is the Rock and Peter is the Rocke and hovv either Leo sermo 2. in Natiuitate Ap. Petri Pauli Matt. 16. and Peter is the Rocke How Christ How Peter Christ by his owne power Peter by participatioÌ„ But let vs heare Leo expounding him self more plainly Thus he saith Euangelica siquidem referente historia c. As the storie of the Gospel telleth our Lorde asketh of al the Apostles what menne thought of him And so long as they be in declaring the doubtefulnesse of mannes vnderstanding the talke of them that answer is common among them al. But when it is required of what sense the Disciples are there he is first in confessing our Lorde which is firste in the Apostolike dignitie Who when he had said Thou arte the Sonne of the liuing God Iesus answered him Blessed arte thou Simon the sonne of Iona bicause fleshe and bloude hath not reueled this vnto thee but my Father that is in heaueÌ„ Therefore blessed arte thou bicause my Father hath taught thee neither hath earthly opinion deceiued thee but heauenly inspiration hath instructed thee and it is not fleshe and bloude that hath shewed me vnto thee but it is he whose onely begotten Sonne I am And I quod he tel thee that is as my Father hath manifested my diuinitie vnto thee so I make knowen to thee thine excellencie Quia tu es Petrus id est cùm ego sim inuiolabilis Petra ego lapis angularis qui facio vtraque vnum tamen tu quoque Petra es quia mea virtute solidaris vt quae mihi potestate sunt propria sint tibi mecum participatione communia Peter is asmuche to saie as Rocke Bicause thou art Peter that is whereas I am the inuiolable Rocke I the Cornerstoane whiche make both one yet thou also arte the Rocke bicause by my vertue thou arte made sounde and sure that the thinges which are proper vnto me by power maie be common to thee with me by participation Thus farre Leo. By these laste wordes he declareth vnto vs how Christe receiued Peter into the companie of his indiuisible vnitie to witte by admitting him to enter commons as I might saie with him and by making him partaker throughe free gifte of that name and not of that name onely but also of that excellencie whiche is Christes owne by power Deceiue not the vnlearned Reader M. Iewel by suche peeces of Doctours sayinges whiche laid forth barely and alone without circumstance of the place whence they be pickte out maie perhappes seeme obscure and doubteful and being vewed in their Authours or otherwise set out in their owne colours appeare most true plaine and agreable to the Scriptures Furthermore where Leo saith The Councel of Chalcedon abhorred the prodigious deuises of the Deuilish heresie of Eutyches Leo epist 52. consenting vnto my writinges strengthened with the authoritie and merite of my Lorde the most blessed Apostle Peter My Lord S. Peter M. Iewel findeth a great fault with him for calling S. Peter my Lorde the most blessed Apostle Peter For the vse of whiche humble terme he might as wel finde faulte with S. Gregorie who calleth Mauricius the Emperour likewise by the name of Lorde the term my Lord vsed of the antiquitie Concil ChalcedoÌ„ Act. 3. pa. 834. co 2 and with the learned menne of the time that Leo liued in for so the Bishoppes at the Councel of Chalcedon spake of Leo him selfe Domini nostri sanctissimi patris Archiepiscopi Leonis lecta est epistola The Epistle of our lorde and most holy ffather and Archiebishop Leo hath benne readde with the whole nation of the Frenche menne who speaking of S. Peter of S. Iames and of suche others the frendes of God are wont to My Lord R. Peter My Lord S. Iames saie Monsieur sainct Pierre Monsieur sainct Iaques my Lorde saint Peter my Lorde saint Iames with the Italians also who vse to speake likewise That this manner of speache was not strange in the Churche it appeareth by sundrie Monumentes of the Grecians of later time Matthaeus Hieromonachus Matthaus Hieremonachus in Collectan maketh Constantine the Great so to speake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 We doo this in the worship of my Lorde S. Peter As for that other phrase Deo inspirante beatissimo Petro Apostolo by the inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle so here it is tranâ—â—â—ted but falsely for whiche M. Iewel condemneth Leo as vsing immoderate and ambitious speache in the praise of S. Peter to the behoofe of his owne preeminence it seemeth strange in deede yea so strange that at the first reading my minde gaue me that M. Iewel to deceiue the Reader hath fowly abused the place As I thought so it was For now I finde that these wordes are in Leo in deede But they are to be construed farre otherwise then this translation reporteth Here I must bring M. Iewel to his smal Rules of Grammare and aske him how he construeth these wordes Leo epist 89 in fine Obtestamur vt ea quae à nobis Deo inspirante beatissimo Petro Apostolo decreta sunt seruetis Verely were he at a Grammare schoole and would tel his Schoolemaister that here beatissimo Petro Apostolo were put in the ablatiue case absolutely as Deo is and so would make S. Peter to geue inspiration to Leo as wel as God he were worthy to haue six stripes on the bare three for his negligent and grosse ignorance three for the blasphemie attributing that to S. Peter whiche is onely to be attributed vnto God There is no incoÌ„uenience in this sentence good Reader Thou maist tel M. Iewel that beatissimo Petro is here the ablatiue for the preposition à whiche requireth the nowne folowing it to be put in the ablatiue case And thus is the whole to be construed as if the preposition à were repeated againe before beatissimo we beseeche you that ye keepe the thinges whiche by the inspiration of God haue ben decreed of vs and of the most blessed Peter the Apostle Let no man thinke it strange S. Peter ioyned vvith Leo. that S. Peter is here ioined with Pope Leo. The Fathers speaking of any Godly Decree ordinance sentence or writing published by any Bishop of Rome for the benefite of the Churche haue commonly so spoken of it as both it proceded from the Pope for the
that very argument of Tertullian which now M. Iewel setteth forth And in that very place S. Hierome nameth Tertullian as an enemie of second mariages But verely the case is not like in Bishops and Priestes For euerie man of necessitie is borne a laye man therefore it were not reason to force him who could not chose but be a laye man to marye but once whereas none are made Priestes but those that know before hand that the Apostle willed such only to be chosen Priestes as are the husbandes of one wife that is to say as haue not had two wiues but either none or but one This law being foreseene causeth it to be no iniurie to forbid the second mariage if any man wil be an external and publike Priest For he needeth not to be such a Priest except he him selfe be willing thereunto Againe the internal Priest needeth no more but an internal sanctitie whiche may be kept in the second mariage and whereby God is specially pleased and that bicause he is only his owne Priest But the external Priest must also professe an external sanctitie bicause he beareth the person of the whole Churche and by his order witnesseth 2. Cor. 11. that the Church as S. Paul saith is despoused or maried to one husband alone verely to Christ so that in the internal Priesthod it is inough to haue inward holinesse without any outward signe peculiarly belonging therunto bicause it is a Priesthod which is geuen in Baptisme where the soule is inwardly washed ād prepared to receiue other sacramentes But in the external Priesthod there must be also an external signe of holines bicause that external priesthod is of it selfe a Sacramēt that is a visible signe of a holy thing wrought inwardly Internal priest ād external do differ ad Heb. 5. Thirdly the internal Priest hath only to offer his owne spiritual Sacrifices vpon the Aultare of his harte but the external Priest hath to offer giftes and external Sacrifices vpō the outward Altare also for the sinnes of the whole people as S. Paule saith Therefore both Tertulliā in this point the Mōtanist and M. Iewel the Caluinist are in like sort deceiued The Montanist in making it no more lawful for a laye man to be twise maried then for him to be made a Priest who had ben twise maried The Caluinist in making the internal and external Priest to be al one For whereas I reasoned out of S. Hierome no Priest or Bishop and no Church and S. Hierome meant of suche a Priest as is aboue a Deacon M. Iewel would proue out of Tertulliā that where three Christiā laye men are there is a Church I cōfesse where but one Catholike layeman is there is one of the Church in which Church there are many external Priestes but if ther be a thousand layemen belonging to such a congregation as doth not acknowledge any external Sacrifice and Priesthod as the protestantes doo not there those thowsand neither are the Church nor of the Church bicause no Church is without an external Priest or Bishop who may offer publike Sacrifice and also consecrate an external priest Tertullian was not of this mind that there was no external Priesthod but his errour was Tertulliās errour in that he wold haue the internal and external Priestes to be in like case concerning the second mariages But otherwise his wordes confesse that not only the authoritie of the Church but also the honour sanctified of God by the assemblie of priestes Tertulliā Ibidem hath made a difference betwen the Order of priestes and the laie people His wordes are differentiam inter ordinem plebem constituit Ecclesiae authoritas honor per ordinis consessum sanctificatus à Deo The authoritie of the Church and the honour sanctified of God by the assemblie of the Order to wit of priestes hath made a difference betwen Order that is priesthood and the Laitie Two thinges haue made this difference betwen priestes and laymen the one is the authoritie of the Church the other is Christ him selfe Who beside the authoritie of the Church by the Sacrament of holy Orders hath instituted this difference of priestes and of layemen The sacrament of holy order is geuen Consecration of a Bishop whiles God sanctifieth the honour that is the preferment of him vpon whom the bishop in an assemblie with many priestes about him laieth his hande This Consecration of the bishop with other bishops or priestes Tertullian calleth Consessum ordinis the assemblie of Order and the Sanctification of God is that which is geuen by the Sacrament of Priesthod For euery Sacrament doth sanctifie the worthy receiuer as S. Paule namely saith of the Sacramēt of external priesthod vnto his disciple Timothee 1. Tim. 4. Despise not the grace which is in thee False trāslation to minister the oblation for to offer vp Sacrifice which hath ben geuen thee by prophecie with the laying on of the handes of priesthod Now a priest thus made might baptize and offer Sacrifice albeit he were alone But the worde offerre to offer M. Iewel turneth to minister the oblation But what peruerting of wordes is this What corruption of the sense What licencious translation Speaketh not Tertullian of the action of a Priest You meane by your ministring of your oblation that the Priest ministreth to the people that thing which the people offered to the priest and so you make the people to offer bread vnto the priest but the priest to offer nothing vnto God But Tertullian saith the priest doth baptize and doth offer meaning that he offereth to God But if your sense be true the people doth offer to the Priest and not the priest vnto God and consequently the priest doth not offer at al. Iewel Pag. 131. Againe ye demaund of me vvhat Bishop of Sarisburie euer sithence Augustines time mainteined this doctrine I might likevvise and by as good authoritie demaund of you vvhat Bishop of Rome before the same English Augustines time maintained your doctrine Or as I said before vvhat Bishop of Rome euer before that time either saide or knevv your priuate Masse Harding The questions are not like M. Iewel there is a thowsand yeres distance betwen them I demaund of your Predecessours from this day vpward til S. Augustines tyme who first brought the faith vnto the English nation But you demaund not from our time to S. Augustines and so vpwarde but only from S. Augustines time vpward Many thinges haue ben or might haue ben lawfully concluded betwen this and S. Augustines time which is the space of a thowsand yeres albeit the same had not ben vsed before or not throughly knowen The Eucharist ministred to childrē at their Baptism and decided As for example the vse hath ben these later thowsand yeres to minister baptisme vnto children rather without geuing them the Sacrament of the Altare then otherwise and that euen in those Churches in some of which within