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A78612 A pretended voice from heaven, proved to bee the voice of man, and not of God. Or, An answer to a treatise, called A voice from heaven, written by Mr. Gualter Postlethwait, an unordained preacher, taking upon him to exercise the pastoral charge, in a congregation at Lewis in Sussex. Wherein, his weakness, in undertaking to prove all protestant churches to bee antichristian, and to bee separated from, as no true churches of Christ, is discovered; and the sinfulness of such a separation evinced. Together with, a brief answer inserted, to the arguments for popular ordination, brought by the answerers of Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici, in their book called The preacher sent. By Ezekiel Charke, M.A. and rector of Waldron in Sussex. Imprimatur, Edmond Calamy. Charke, Ezekiel. 1658 (1658) Wing C2069; Thomason E959_5; ESTC R207673 108,343 141

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Yet this vial is as yet poured out but in part as are also severall others of the Vials The dregs of them and of this in particular remaining to bee poured upon the beast in a doctrinal way by this Angel who shall give the last warning of Babylons instant ruine The effect whereof is that the earth is inlightned that is many more of the common people are drawn off from communion with Babylon and joyn issue with some of the ten horns fallen off from the Whore and hating her But as for her more honourable slaves and vassals they receive no benefit by the Ministery of this Angell but either perish in Babylons ruine or by the dregs of the vials poured out upon her associates Vers 2. Cecidit cecidit i. e. Paulo post casura certissime gravissime Pisc Here we have the summe of the report of this Angel concerning Babylons fall which is by way of anticipation set down as actually come to pass after the manner of the Prophets to note the certainty of it and the expression doubled to note the grievousnesse of her fall Vers 3. Here wee have the procuring cause of Babylons fall her abominable Idolatries and whoring seducings wherein shee continueth after convictions admonitions and threatnings Vers 4 Here t is observable Militaris exhortatio ut non solum ab ea secedant sed et acriter eam oppugnent Grass that the Holy Ghost alters the usual manner and way of witnessing against Babylon for here is no Angel but a voice from heaven It may bee vox è castris a voice from the campe God is mustering up his Armies and the warre is advancing to the very gates of Rome and now the voice of Providence doth thereby cry out aloud Come out c. By Babylon I understand with Pareus c. not onely the City of Rome but all those places that are under the power and jurisdiction of the Pope where his authority takes place and where his idolatrous worship and doctrines are submitted to and imbraced To come out of Babylon is to renounce communion with her in her soule sinnes and abominable Idolatries and to disclaim and reject the usurped power of Antichrist both in temporals and especially in spirituals The not doing of this maketh men her associates and will cause them to partake of her plagues Rev. 13.16 17. Rev. 14.8 9 10. and here Rev. 18.3 4. From these Texts I observe 1 That Antichrists sin lies principally in this that hee causeth all under great penalties to receive the mark of the name of the beast in their right hands or foreheads that is to own the universal headship of the Pope especially in spirituals So that no point of Christian faith must bee received unless warranted by his authority and whatsoever is stampt with his authority must bee owned though never so contrary to the Scriptures 2 The sin of his followers lyeth in this that they resign up themselves in obedience to the Pope and make him soveraign Lord over their persons rights and consciences in all things receiving owning pleading fighting for his abominable Doctrines worship and usurpation Kings themselves submitting their crowns to him and maintaining by their Laws and edicts his blasphemous doctrines and tyranny 3 Those onely are threatned to partake of Babylons plagues that partake with her in her sins And who those are the Holy Ghost tells us Rev. 13.16 17. All and onely they that receive a marke the name of the beast or the number of his name in their right hand or in their fore-head That is that own the usurped authority of the Pope and his doctrines and idolatries because stampt with his authority which whosoever doth to the death cannot bee saved Rev. 16.3 The Doctrine of the Church of Rome as set forth and confirmed for such by the Tridentine Council is this Sea consisting of the popish errors collected into one body as many waters meet in the Sea The Angell that turned this Sea into bloud might bee among others Martin Chemuitius who poured out his vial on it when hee wrote his Examination of the Trent Council And every Soul living in this Sea dyed whosoever owneth the Popish Religion as set forth by that Councill and dies in that Faith cannot bee saved for what the Apostle saith of one of its anti-Scriptural doctrines Gal. 5.4 may be said of all of them that rase the foundation On the contrary those that renounce the universal headship of the Pope and all his anti-scriptural doctrines as the insufficiency of the Scriptures the authority and necessity of his traditions justification by works praying to glorified Saints and Angels worshiping Images and Crucifixes Purgatory and Indulgences c. and withal abhorre and renounce his Idolatrous worship and profess themselves resolved to resist unto blood rather than hold communion with him in his sins All such persons and Churches are come out of Babylon already And among such are the Protestant Churches in England Scotland Holland France Germany c. professing the sound doctrines of the Gospel in opposition to Antichrists Idolatries How those Churches that disown and reject the corrupt doctrine and worship of the Roman Church and have sealed their witness against them with their blood being by their profession and sufferings the instruments whereby God hath shaken the Kingdome of the Beast How these Churches should yet bee Antichristian limbs of the Beast may well bee a Mystery to all considerate and unprejudiced men And whereas Mr. P. beleeves that none save a few separate Churches named Congregational are yet come out of Babylon which the Brownists Anabaptists Quakers c. plead each for themselves I have one text to offer to his consideration thereupon which is Rev. 14.1 2 3 4. 1 By the Lamb is undoubtedly meant the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Mount-Sion is opposed to Babylon the Gospel-Church to the Church Antichristian 3 The 144000 that stand upon Mount-Sion a definite number for an indefinite and have their Fathers name written in their fore-heads must therefore bee members of the true Church in opposition to the members of the Church of Anti-Christ who have his name or mark in their right hand or forehead 4 By their having their Fathers name written in their forehead is therefore hinted their keeping close in the main to Gods institutions in profession and worship in opposition to the Idolatries of the Antichristian Church Which further appears in that it is said that they are not defiled with women vers 4. that is with the Idolatries of the great Whore Now can any man say that those of whom the holy Ghost thus speaketh are yet in Babylon How can they bee upon Mount-Sion and yet in Babylon too 5 The 144000 signifie some definite number of the people of God that in all ages from the first rise of Antichrists Kingdome have cleaved to the Lamb and kept a true Church-State which is signified by their standing with the Lamb upon Mount-Sion with
swerving from his institution as of those that seek him in a way conformable to his Institution I suppose you will answer negatively But now through Gods goodness wee are able to say that God is and hath been as much found of us in our Churches and way and our Ministers have received as glorious a seal of their Ministery as any Churches that wee know of since the Apostles daies and farre more than our Congregational Brethren themselves in their way who although they deal out this hard measure to us to cry down our Ministery and Churches as Antichristian owe most of them that are renewed their conversion unto God unto our Ministery as the instrument for it in Gods hand themselves being Judges Though they had ten thousand Independent Instructors yet could they not say they are their Fathers for in Christ Jesus the Ministery of our Churches hath begotten them to the Gospel If I am become a fool in glorying they have compelled mee Object 4 But there may be and hath been good done this way errours suppressed c. and those that reject it now P. 61. made use of it once Answ The good that God brings out of evil is not to be construed into a divine approbation of it Nor the use that hath been made by good men of a false way of Churches to bee drawn into an argument to continue in it Answ What good there hath been done by reformed Churches few can bee ignorant of What good hath been done by Independent Churches hath not yet much appeared That some of their flocks are pure they owe to our Churches as hath been said Errours have been indeed suppressed by ours but not by theirs it appears therefore they have made but a bad exchange but cherished by many of them who have been to them as Cities of refuge and out of which they have swarmed abundantly into all parts of the Land and for this the Land groans And thinks Mr. P. to put off this so sleightly with his begged supposition of the truth of the Churches of his way and the falseness of ours Surely the beating down of errour and the promoting of truth is no contemptible note of a true Church though some corruptions bee found in it Rev. 2.2 4. and on the contrary c. That those that owned our Churches once have now rejected them I judge from the word to be their sin They should have continued in them since Christ hath not divorced them though he hath somewhat against them and have indeavoured to reform them But they have not laboured to heal yea they have widened and encreased our wounds and then they insult over us Antichristianize us separate from us and draw away the best of our flocks boasting in other mens lines of things made ready to their hands The Lord judge between us and them Object 5. and 6. But shall wee do it without the authority of the Magistrate P. 62 63 64 without the consent of the Church Answ That which is pressed is but the doing of the duty that lies upon every Christian to separate from unwarrantable societies The Text hath no such proviso if the Magistrate bid or give you leave then come out of Babylon Therefore wee are to resolve with Peter Martyr and with Wollebius c. After God hath made known his truth saies the first wee must not delay Consent indeed is to be expected if the matter be dubious and obscure to wit to him to whom it is revealed as the course of his speech makes manifest Answ The Magistrate is as no body with you unless you have him on your side and then you can change your note But wee hold that very much respect is to bee had to the Magistrate in this matter and all means possible are to bee used to ingage the Magistrate to carry on the work of Reformation Give mee but one example in all the Old Testament of any considerable reformation in the Church without the interposition of the power of the Magistrate or one example of it in Ecclesiastical history in a time when there were Christian Magistrates Can our Magistrates endure that their authority and power should bee contemned as it is I hope they will not but that they will exert it for the good of the Church in discountenancing restraining and punishing men of corrupt minds principles and practices leading to separation blasphemies errours and rebellion sheltring themselves under this notion that the Magistrate hath nothing to do with Church-matters and that all men are therein to bee left to their liberty and the dictates of their own spirits The places that you pick out of Martyr and Wollebius favour not your fancy The place of Wollebius taken in his sense I readily yeeld to That when Religion is depraved it is to bee reformed by the Magistrate But if reformation cannot be obtained of the Magistrate hee being an enemy to the Church then reformation lies upon those whom God hath furnished with necessary gifts for it neither is the consent of Roman Bishops to bee expected for if our Fathers had done so saies hee there would have been no reformation And hee produceth the examples of Gideon Jehoiada the Maccabes the Apostles c. to make good his assertion Now when you shall have proved 1 That the supreme Magistrate is an enemy of Religion the Church and reformation 2 That the way of reformation you contend for is indeed the way of God 3 That all lawful means have been used and notwithstanding reformation cannot be obtained at the Magistrates hands 4 That Englands condition and the State of the Church in the time of Gideon Jehoiada the Maccabes the Apostles and Protestant reformers are alike 5 That you have Instruments that have the like call from God and are furnished with such abilities for reforming as they had and were Then I confess this place will speak something for you 6 The reformation Wollebius speaks of referres chiefly to essentials in Religion and that hee is an Antagonist to your way of separation from reformed Churches appears sufficiently in his book Martyr you much mistake also 1 The reformation hee presseth referres chiefly to fundamentals in Religion 2 Those whose consent hee saies was not to bee expected were the Roman Bishops whom hee calls sworn enemies to the truth 3 Hee doth not incite and stirre up the people to set upon the work without the consent of the Magistrate but the inferiour Magistrates to endeavour in their places a reformation of Religion in banishing the impure Masse out of their Cities c. and how doth this reach your case 4 The cause hee saies was clear and such as was confessed to be Gods and delaies might indanger the loss of a good cause Consent indeed saies hee is to be expected if the matter bee dubious and obscure And here you bring in your shameful Parenthesis to wit to whom it is revealed which Parenthesis spoils and abuseth Peter Martyrs Text For his
words clearly import to any man that will read there that the cause was not onely clear unto them whom hee endeavours to interest in carrying on the work of reformation but clear in it self and not as to its matter dubious and obscure being such as all the Churches on earth but the Romish would own For shame leave off your abusing of Authors at which work I have caught you more than once or twice in this Treatise Again your Parenthesis is full fraught with all seeds of Rebellion against the State as well as of confusion in the Church of God For if men may freely follow the apprehensions of their own misguided judgements and deluded fancies against the mind of the Magistrate and consent of the Church of God How shall our Religion or Liberties Persons Estates or Lives bee secured to us Probably the late fift-Monarchy-Traitours had read your Treatise I find a harmony between their remonstrance and your book in many passages and I am sure they will assert the cause they undertook was clear to them and then your parenthesis bears them out they needed not to expect any consent You now conclude notwithstanding all Objections Let those whose hearts God hath raised up go up and build his house Get wee our brethren p. 64. if we can along with us but let us not delay our duty Indeed reformation-work is blessed work but people had need to have better guides than you in it lest they mistake their way and whilst they think they are flying from Babylon they fly indeed into it for thither your way drives though I suppose you perceive it not Babylon and you are farther agreed than all men are aware of 1 The Pope cries down all Churches as Antichristian and heretical but his own especially Protestant Churches Mr. P. proclaimes all Churches that are not of his way to bee Antichristian and especially the Western reformed Churches called Protestants to bee Babylon-Harlots c. 2 Mr. P. is an earnest contender for Democratical and against Presbyterial Government The Pope hee hates a Scripture Presbytery at his heart but favours by his agents Democratical government hoping to work out his own designes by it And therefore his disguised Agents insinuate into Independent congregations and strengthen them in their way of independency and separation as that which best helps on their work and gives them the greatest advantage for the sowing of their bad seed Hence have proceeded from such Congregations Anabaptists c. with Popish doctrines and arguments in their mouths Therefore let Mr. P. beware lest a blind zeal betray him and that instead of a Reformer hee prove a Deformer leading men to Rome whilst hee calls upon them to come out of it for men of his understanding spirit and confidence are usually in danger to prove such in the end Consider wee now his reasons for separation from our Churches The Reasons of the point are 1 Because Antichrists Churches are sin The great Beast spoken of Rev. 13 1 2. is the Vniversal visible Church of Rome It cannot bee meant of the Roman Pagan nor Christian Empire nor of Antichrist which is the other beast vers 11. hee is one of the heads but not the Beast it self Antichrist causeth an image to be made to the first Beast vers 14. that is to set a Church in every Nation c. that may have the likenesse of the Roman Church viz. Metropolitan National Diocesan Cathedral and Provincial Churches as Mr. Cotton shews on Rev. 13. and these are the living Characters of the first Beast the Catholick visible Church of Rome and so the image and the Parishes are but reliques of them Protestant Churches are it seems Antichrist his Churches and SIN in the abstract if Mr. P. may bee judge If hee can prove them to bee so they are no doubt to bee separated from but hitherto hee hath not come neer it Here hee seems to summe up his grounds of so bold an assertion which arise from an interpretation of Rev. 13. This Chapter hath alwaies much perplext Interpreters to make out what is meant by these two Beasts both because of what is said of them and because they seem to bee spoken of as but one Beast vers 18. and chap. 17. Some will have the first Beast to bee the Roman Pagan Empire the second the Pope But the stream of Interpreters generally understand them to bee one and the same beast the Pope of Rome under a double notion and Bellarmine himself Per unam exprimitur Antichristus ratione Regiae potestatis tyrannidis per alteram ratione magicae artis qua callidè homines seducet judgeth that the same Antichrist is meant by both indifferent respects But however it be it may easily bee made to appear that the first beast cannot mean as Mr. Cotton and Mr. P. from him would have it the Catholick visible Church of Rome 1 Because such a Church supposeth an Vniversal visible head for these are relates But there was no universal visible head untill long after the time of the wound which Mr. Cotton mentions the year 415 For Phocas conferred the universal headship on Boniface the third in the year 606. and not long before that Gregory disclaimeth such a title and power 2 Because the setting of Diocesan c. See the end of Sect. 5. Churches in every nation cannot bee a making of an Image to the Catholick visible Church of Rome Since these as Papal are parts of that Church and help to make it up And that the Image will then bee more perfect than the Original or pattern For the Catholick visible Church of Rome was never such in that manner and measure before as after the wound Yea the Visible Catholickness of the Church of Rome hath little or no appearance at all in Historie before that time of the wound 3 Because the things predicated of this first Beast vers 2. are no way applicable to the Catholick visible Church of Rome especially before that time of the wound The power of a Bear and of a Lyon and of the Dragon giving it his seat and great authority cannot bee found in History to have been possessed and exercised by the Catholick Visible Church of Rome before that time And a man must speak meer dreams that will undertake to make what is said of the first Beast unto the rise of the second vers 11. to suit to the universal Visible Church of Rome before that rising of the second 4 Because the Text expresly distinguisheth between the Beast that exerciseth Soveraign rule and authority and those that are under his rule and Government Hee is set forth vers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Those under his rule are set forth by their admiring of him and worshipping and subjecting to him vers 3 4 7 8. and these make up the Roman Catholick Visible Church Mr. P's foundation therefore is found to bee null and so consequently his inferences from it fall to
Tabernacle which they were afterwards by Aaron and his Sons and the ordaining of Ministers with impositions of hands by the people and that without Officers now under the New Testament where we have clearly institution and example to declare it to be the Ministers work They proceed to say None of the texts which speak of Ordination limit it to Officers only Let our brethren prove any such limitation else private beleevers may warrantably ordain VVhat Readers did these Brethren think their Book would meet with to urge this reasoning again and again as an argument for popular Ordination They might have considered how easie the proof is Either it is limited to Officers only or committed to others as well as them But it is not committed to others therefore it is limited to Officers only Let them shew by Scripture-precept or example out of the New Testament that it is committed to others else private beleevers Ordaining must needs remain unwarrantable Let them shew private Beleevers warrant as Ministers can theirs We prove it is committed to Officers they cannot prove it is committed to others doth it not then follow that it is limited to Officers only May they not by their way of reasoning as well say that Magistrates as such may ordain Ministers because they are not by name excluded and so screw Erastus his way one pin higher than ever he durst bring it to Nay may they not by this reasoning argue that private beleevers may administer the Sacraments since no place of Scripture doth express the administration of them to be limited to Officers by excluding the people from it These Brethrens Arguments then are not at all conclusive for their purpose The Holy Ghost hath committed Ordination to Ministers and no where to the people for them therefore to act in it is a gross and very sinful usurpation Hence also it will follow that people cannot without sin own unordained persons or such as are ordained only by the People as Ministers of Jesus Christ As these may bee justly charged to run before they are sent as those did Jerem. 23.21 so those may be charged justly as the Israelites about their Kings Hos 8.4 to set up Pastors but not by him and Ministers but he knew not approved not of it Therefore let such supposed Ministers bee humbled for their rash intrusion and seek for Ordination at the hands of Gospel-Ministers And People who have such Pastors urge them to it and upon their refusal and neglect of it let them know that they cannot own them as Ministers of Christ SECT XIII Containing the Author's humble supplication to those in Authority for Reformation SInce notwithstanding the Criminations of the Accuser whom this Book answereth and the several charges from others our Churches remain true Churches of Christ and need not new making but reforming and our Ministry a true Ministry and that it appears that such only are lawful Ministers of Jesus Christ and Embassadours for him among us who have a constituted Church as have been ordained by a Presbytery of preaching Elders My humble request to the Magistrates of our Land is 1 That they would improve to their utmost the power put into their hands by the King of the Church Jesus Christ for Reformation in our Churches by stirring up and enjoyning Ministers to lay out themselves more fully for the instructing admonishing and reforming of the flocks committed to them and people to receive yeeld and submit unto their Ministerial labours and authority in order to the due use of all the Ordinances of Christ and such a conversation as becometh the Gospel And that therefore they would bee pleased to countenance and enjoyn the n●cessary works of Catechising and private instruction and by their authority to strengthen the hands of Christs Ministers in their keeping the Ordinances of Christ and particularly that of his Supper from profanation 2 That they would take care that every Congregation so farre as may be stand furnished with a Minister of the Gospel rightly qualified and invested into office by Ordination received from Ministers of the Gospel according to Christs institution Jehosaphat sent none with his Princes to teach the People the Law of God but Levites and Priests persons regularly invested with office 2 Chron. 17.8 9. The Churches of God in Primitive times in after ages at this day in Scotland France Sweden Denmark Helvetia Germany the Netherlands New-England all the Presbyterian Churches in England yea of Congregational Churches almost all doe with one consent affirm that authoritative preaching of the Word and dispensing of the Sacraments belong only to a lawfully Ordained Ministry I beseech our Rulers in the bowels of Christ that effectual care bee taken that all our Ministers may be such that countenance publick places and publick maintenance bee afforded only to such How should wee expect our comforts should bee dear to God if wee are not zealous for that which so nearly concerns his glory 3 That they would be pleased effectually to suppress to their power all Blasphemies Heresies and Anti-fundamental Errours that they may not bee written taught vented promoted to the prejudice of the Truth trouble of the Church and endangering the immortal Souls of people and that men may not have liberty to defame and every Blatero to rail at and charge with Antichristianism the Churches and ways of God which Protestants have generally owned and sealed their testimony unto with the bloud of multitudes of Martyrs Then would their light break forth as the morning and the glory of the Lord would be their rereward Let timid spirits cry out of Lions in the way and fear that if there bee an owning of thorow Reformation erroneous and loose persons will bee discontented and ready to joyn with forreign enemies to disturb the publick peace and procure the ruine of Church and State But let Magistrates who are the Ministers of God and bear his Name zealously goe through with the work of the Lord and expect confidently protection and a blessing from him in it setting before them that excellent pattern Jehosaphat 2 Chron. 17. whose care and zeal for Reformation was remarkably owned and rewarded by God for He stablished the Kingdom in his hand all Judah brought him presents and the Philistines and Arabians tribute he had riches and honour in abundance and the fear of the Lord fell upon the Kingdoms of the Lands that were round about Judah so that they made no warre against Jehosaphat Thus will the Lord reward Rulers that are zealous for his honour and against whatsoever strikes at it And our Supream Magistrate and Chief Rulers may in the discharge of this work look for like success SECT XIV Of Mr. P's conclusion abusing that of the Lord Du Plessis his Book I Shall conclude all with that noble Speech P. 95 96. of that noble Lord Du Plessis May we not lawfully say with the Prophet We would have cured Babel but she would not be cured forsake her