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yet_o put_v all_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o author_n word_n that_o when_o i_o come_v to_o read_v the_o author_n and_o see_v he_o so_o change_v i_o begin_v to_o think_v whether_o that_o be_v the_o place_n but_o find_v that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o other_o and_o that_o it_o be_v like_a in_o some_o word_n i_o conclude_v that_o this_o must_v be_v it_o the_o author_n then_o comment_v upon_o the_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o the_o corinthian_n where_o s._n paul_n speak_v of_o some_o that_o do_v use_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n for_o ostentation_n say_v thus_o he_o ex_fw-la hebraeis_n erant_fw-la qui_fw-la aliquando_fw-la syra_n lingua_fw-la plaerumque_fw-la hebraea_n in_fw-la tractatibus_fw-la aut_fw-la oblationibus_fw-la utebantur_fw-la ad_fw-la commendationem_fw-la gloriabantur_fw-la enim_fw-la se_fw-la dici_fw-la hebraeos_fw-la propter_fw-la meritum_fw-la abrahae_fw-la these_o be_v of_o the_o hebrew_n who_o sometime_o use_v the_o syriack_n but_o 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doctrine_n and_o person_n to_o be_v draw_v from_o idolater_n haeretique_n and_o capharnait_v of_o the_o first_o of_o these_o three_o theodoret_n say_v that_o those_o haeretique_n make_v two_o christ_n one_o below_o another_z above_o of_o who_o they_o say_v that_o he_o have_v dwell_v in_o many_o before_o and_o at_o last_o come_v down_o hither_o or_o as_o other_o declare_v it_o that_o at_o last_o he_o come_v and_o rest_v in_o jesus_n the_o son_n of_o mary_n a_o haeretical_a fable_n indeed_o which_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v what_o to_o make_v of_o but_o wherein_o be_v it_o like_v to_o our_o transubstantiation_n these_o haeretique_n make_v two_o christ_n we_o acknowledge_v but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o both_o in_o heaven_n and_o in_o the_o consecrate_a host_n marcus_n as_o irenaeus_n say_v by_o the_o help_n of_o the_o devil_n through_o art_n magic_a change_v the_o colour_n of_o the_o wine_n in_o the_o cup_n or_o chalice_n which_o the_o knight_n be_v please_v of_o himself_o to_o call_v 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this_o as_o i_o see_v not_o what_o else_o he_o shall_v mean_v i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o conceit_n worthy_a of_o he_o but_o beside_o what_o a_o fine_a line_n of_o succession_n be_v here_o do_v the_o pope_n succeed_v either_o phocas_n or_o any_o other_o king_n or_o king_n of_o the_o gentile_n to_o what_o purpose_n then_o be_v they_o name_v 9_o but_o to_o go_v yet_o on_o with_o his_o toy_n he_o deduce_v our_o worship_n of_o image_n from_o the_o basilidian_o and_o carpocratian_o who_o say_v he_o do_v worship_n image_n and_o profess_v that_o they_o have_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n make_v by_o pilate_n for_o which_o he_o cit_v s._n irenaeus_n in_o the_o margin_n his_o own_o doctrine_n he_o derive_v from_o the_o second_o of_o the_o ten_o commandment_n according_a to_o his_o own_o translation_n thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o any_o grave_a image_n here_o again_o the_o knight_n give_v yet_o more_o ample_a testimony_n of_o his_o notorious_a naughty_a deal_n for_o why_o when_o he_o say_v that_o these_o haeretique_n have_v the_o picture_n of_o christ_n make_v as_o they_o say_v by_o pilate_n why_o i_o say_v can_v not_o he_o have_v go_v on_o with_o s._n irenaeus_n who_o speak_v of_o that_o and_o other_o picture_n both_o paint_v and_o carve_v which_o they_o have_v say_v have_v coronant_fw-la 24._o iren._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 24._o &_o proponunt_fw-la eas_fw-la cum_fw-la imaginibus_fw-la mundi_fw-la philosophoram_n to_o wit_n cum_fw-la imagine_v pythâgorae_n &_o platonis_fw-la &_o aristotelus_fw-la &_o reliquorum_fw-la &_o reliquam_fw-la obseruationem_fw-la circa_fw-la eas_fw-la similiter_fw-la ut_fw-la gentes_fw-la faciunt_fw-la they_o crown_v they_o and_o propose_v they_o with_o the_o image_n of_o the_o philosopher_n of_o the_o world_n to_o wit_n pythagoras_n plato_n aristotle_n and_o the_o rest_n and_o use_v such_o other_o observation_n towards_o they_o as_o the_o
first_o make_v she_o visible_a which_o be_v that_o we_o desire_v and_o so_o sir_n you_o have_v spin_a a_o fair_a thread_n you_o will_v fain_o make_v your_o church_n visible_a before_o luther_n and_o you_o make_v it_o invisible_a you_o look_v well_o about_o you_o mean_v while_n now_o that_o which_o you_o say_v next_o of_o take_v away_o the_o 3._o creed_n which_o you_o profess_v two_o sacrament_n 4._o counsel_n and_o 22._o book_n of_o scripture_n without_o which_o our_o church_n will_v be_v a_o poor_a senseless_a carcase_n be_v most_o foolish_a for_o who_o do_v speak_v of_o take_v they_o away_o who_o do_v say_v they_o be_v you_o you_o will_v not_o say_v yourself_o but_o you_o have_v they_o from_o we_o what_o then_o do_v you_o talk_v of_o take_v they_o away_o and_o whereas_o you_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o we_o now_o style_v they_o chaff_n and_o new_a heresy_n it_o be_v to_o shameless_a a_o untruth_n for_o any_o man_n to_o tell_v but_o yourself_o and_o therefore_o deserve_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v sir_n humphrey_n lind'_v you_o understand_v my_o meaning_n sir_n 21._o one_o little_a thing_n more_o there_o be_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v that_o whereas_o some_o of_o we_o have_v term_v your_o religion_n negative_a in_o regard_n it_o consist_v most_o in_o denial_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o we_o teach_v as_o they_o may_v well_o call_v it_o you_o will_v retort_v that_o term_n upon_o we_o because_o we_o deny_v many_o thing_n which_o you_o affirm_v but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n of_o any_o moment_n for_o they_o who_o call_v your_o religion_n negative_a do_v not_o mean_v that_o you_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o positive_a erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o most_o of_o your_o doctrine_n i_o mean_v that_o which_o be_v proper_o you_o not_o take_v from_o we_o be_v negative_a and_o even_o those_o affirmative_a proposition_n which_o you_o teach_v if_o you_o teach_v any_o be_v but_o contradiction_n of_o other_o thing_n which_o we_o teach_v be_v not_o or_o may_v not_o be_v do_v in_o which_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v also_o call_v negative_a but_o for_o we_o it_o be_v nothing_o so_o for_o it_o consist_v of_o positive_a point_n deliver_v not_o by_o way_n of_o opposition_n or_o denial_n for_o it_o be_v before_o all_o haeresy_n though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o have_v many_o negative_a proposition_n and_o precept_n beside_o out_o of_o every_o positive_a point_n a_o man_n may_v infer_v the_o contrary_a negative_a which_o yet_o make_v not_o that_o a_o negative_a as_o you_o do_v in_o some_o of_o those_o proposition_n which_o you_o allege_v for_o example_n you_o make_v this_o a_o negative_a point_n that_o we_o deny_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n to_o remain_v after_o consecration_n whereas_o that_o be_v only_o a_o negative_a infer_v out_o of_o this_o positive_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n which_o be_v our_o doctrine_n &_o 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such_o gross_a falsitye_n than_o i_o do_v not_o say_v honesty_n but_o even_a shame_n will_v give_v a_o man_n leave_v but_o which_o be_v most_o to_o be_v wonder_v you_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o similitude_n as_o prove_v the_o contrary_a which_o be_v not_o any_o praise_n of_o goodness_n for_o you_o intend_v it_o not_o but_o a_o argument_n of_o the_o necessity_n whereto_o you_o be_v drive_v by_o the_o badness_n of_o your_o cause_n and_o a_o dispraise_n of_o your_o judgement_n in_o that_o you_o see_v not_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o 9_o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o protestant_n and_o the_o roman_a faith_n in_o the_o particular_a chapter_n ix_o 1._o our_o knight_n have_v promise_v to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o novelty_n of_o we_o in_o general_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o own_o author_n &_o church_n and_o perform_v it_o brave_o forsooth_o as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o former_a chapter_n he_o profess_v now_o in_o this_o nine_o section_n 9_o chap._n 9_o to_o prove_v the_o same_o in_o like_a sort_n out_o of_o our_o author_n in_o diverse_a particular_a point_n as_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n and_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n private_a mass_n etc._n etc._n treat_v every_o one_o here_o ex_fw-la professo_fw-la and_o several_o in_o distinct_a paragraphe_n who_o method_n i_o shall_v also_o follow_v in_o answer_v of_o he_o §._o 1._o of_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o examine_v 1._o this_o point_n of_o his_o protestant_a justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o knight_n prove_v as_o he_o say_v out_o of_o a_o book_n publish_v in_o anselmes_n time_n which_o be_v call_v ordo_fw-la baptizandi_fw-la &_o visitandi_fw-la &c._n &c._n of_o which_o he_o cit_v two_o or_o three_o several_a edition_n to_o fill_v up_o the_o margin_n with_o 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see_v the_o man_n be_v abominable_a lie_v by_o this_o one_o thing_n may_v give_v a_o guess_n of_o the_o rest_n the_o council_n as_o he_o confess_v in_o the_o beginning_n accurse_v he_o and_o his_o doctrine_n and_o here_o he_o say_v it_o conclude_v with_o a_o well_o wish_v thereunto_o be_v it_o even_o so_o good_a sir_n your_o communion_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o tell_v we_o news_n i_o pray_v you_o what_o canon_n what_o chapter_n what_o session_n be_v your_o communion_n once_o name_v in_o there_o you_o will_v say_v where_o the_o council_n wish_v that_o the_o people_n that_o hear_v mass_n will_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o also_o sacramental_o be_v this_o your_o communion_n what_o have_v you_o mass_n sir_n humphrey_n take_v heed_n it_o may_v cost_v you_o money_n a_o informer_n that_o shall_v hear_v this_o may_v catch_v you_o by_o the_o back_n and_o bring_v you_o in_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o mark_n as_o you_o have_v receive_v bytt_n of_o 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not_o say_v mass_n what_o think_v you_o sir_n be_v not_o these_o two_o thing_n study_v the_o matter_n a_o while_n and_o tell_v us._n do_v not_o you_o then_o speak_v wondrous_a witty_o when_o you_o say_v that_o there_o come_v blessing_n and_o curse_v out_o of_o the_o same_o mouth_n as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v approve_v and_o condemn_v the_o same_o thing_n when_o it_o commend_v sacramental_a communion_n of_o the_o people_n together_o with_o the_o priest_n and_o yet_o condemn_v not_o those_o mass_n as_o unlawful_a wherein_o the_o people_n do_v not_o communicate_v yea_o approve_v they_o the_o like_a wit_n and_o less_o honesty_n you_o show_v alsoe_o in_o that_o you_o say_v that_o from_o the_o confession_n of_o a_o general_a council_n your_o communion_n be_v conclude_v to_o be_v more_o fruitful_a what_o affinity_n between_o your_o empty_a communion_n which_o be_v but_o a_o morsel_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n and_o the_o true_a real_a &_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n which_o the_o faithful_a catholic_a receive_v the_o council_n commend_v daily_o receive_v of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n as_o more_o profitable_a therefore_o say_v you_o it_o commend_v your_o communion_n which_o you_o use_v once_o twice_o thrice_o or_o 4._o time_n a_o year_n it_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n will_v receive_v sacramental_o as_o the_o priest_n do_v you_o make_v it_o say_v no_o but_o that_o the_o priest_n must_v do_v as_o the_o people_n do_v that_o be_v not_o celebrate_v but_o when_o they_o be_v dispose_v to_o receive_v be_v it_o not_o mere_a madness_n for_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n thus_o plain_o to_o abuse_v the_o council_n so_o contrary_a to_o the_o plain_a meaning_n thereof_o 3._o like_o to_o this_o be_v your_o folly_n in_o allege_v so_o many_o authoritye_n in_o favour_n of_o your_o communion_n as_o you_o think_v which_o whither_o you_o cite_v they_o true_a or_o no_o i_o do_v not_o stand_v to_o examine_v for_o it_o make_v no_o matter_n they_o say_v it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n to_o communicate_v every_o day_n with_o the_o priest_n i_o grant_v it_o what_o then_o therefore_o the_o priest_n now_o must_v say_v mass_n but_o once_o in_o two_o or_o three_o month_n or_o once_o in_o a_o twelve_o month_n or_o not_o once_o in_o seven_o year_n unless_o the_o people_n be_v so_o devout_a as_o to_o come_v &_o receive_v with_o he_o this_o follow_v of_o your_o doctrine_n be_v not_o this_o wise_a argue_v but_o to_o answer_n you_o another_o way_n sir_n humphrey_n you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a that_o there_o be_v not_o one_o of_o these_o author_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o the_o people_n daily_a communion_n that_o say_v that_o either_o it_o be_v or_o be_v of_o necessity_n so_o to_o do_v but_o only_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o practice_n 5._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o durant_n de_fw-fr ritib._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o n._n 5._o whereas_o some_o of_o they_o as_o bellarmine_n and_o durantus_n do_v prove_v most_o manifest_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n or_o dependency_n of_o the_o priest_n celebrate_v upon_o the_o people_n communicate_v that_o they_o may_v not_o celebrate_v unless_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v nay_o they_o prove_v clear_o that_o it_o be_v ordinary_a for_o priest_n to_o celebrate_v though_o no_o body_n do_v communicate_v do_v they_o not_o prove_v by_o manifest_a authority_n that_o in_o the_o eastern_a church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o s._n ambrose_n s._n aug._n &_o s._n chrisost_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v but_o once_o a_o year_n and_o yet_o s._n chrysost_o even_o there_o where_o he_o complain_v of_o the_o people_n coldness_n say_v of_o himself_o that_o he_o celebrate_v every_o day_n though_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o participate_v with_o he_o but_o because_o these_o father_n live_v after_o the_o primitive_a church_n though_o not_o long_o and_o that_o your_o author_n speak_v most_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o even_o in_o that_o time_n the_o people_n do_v not_o still_o communicate_v every_o day_n as_o they_o have_v do_v in_o the_o begin_n for_o whereas_o people_n do_v communicate_v before_o without_o command_n only_o of_o their_o own_o devotion_n they_o be_v grow_v so_o cold_a by_o pope_n fabian_n time_n 3._o fab._n epi._n 3._o which_o be_v about_o the_o year_n 240._o be_v but_o the_o one_o &_o twentieth_o pope_n that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o make_v a_o decree_n to_o compel_v the_o people_n to_o communicate_v at_o least_o thrice_o a_o year_n and_o this_o be_v almost_o one_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o end_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n the_o like_a decree_n i_o may_v alsoe_o bring_v out_o of_o soter_n about_o the_o year_n 175._o which_o be_v 60._o year_n before_o fabian_n whereas_o notwithstanding_o then_o priest_n and_o bishop_n do_v celebrate_v every_o day_n as_o appear_v by_o s._n cypr._n ambr._n aug._n hierome_n 4._o lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o etc._n etc._n cite_v by_o durantus_n and_o which_o be_v more_o those_o father_n s._n aug_n by_o name_n say_v he_o do_v neither_o commend_v nor_o discommend_v the_o daily_a communion_n of_o the_o people_n but_o wish_v that_o at_o least_o upon_o sunday_n they_o will_v communicate_v but_o with_o a_o mind_n free_a from_o desire_n of_o sin_v whereas_o he_o together_o with_o other_o father_n make_v frequent_a mention_n of_o daily_a sacrifice_n but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o your_o purpose_n or_o to_o your_o communion_n as_o of_o all_o that_o be_v say_v by_o the_o father_n of_o the_o holy_a communion_n be_v mean_v of_o your_o sacrilegious_a communion_n 4._o now_o for_o your_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n as_o that_o that_o our_o saviour_n say_v to_o his_o disciple_n take_v you_o eat_v you_o i_o answer_v that_o as_o our_o saviour_n there_o speak_v to_o all_o his_o apostle_n who_o do_v all_o eat_n so_o out_o of_o this_o place_n a_o man_n may_v even_o as_o well_o say_v that_o all_o must_v communicate_v that_o be_v in_o the_o church_n at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o that_o the_o priest_n must_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o not_o only_o one_o 2._o or_o 3._o communicate_v but_o all_o that_o be_v there_o which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v you_o will_v grant_v for_o i_o do_v not_o think_v that_o when_o any_o one_o man_n among_o you_o receive_v your_o communion_n all_o receive_v it_o solve_n this_o objection_n then_o of_o i_o and_o you_o answer_v your_o own_o for_o s._n paul_n word_n where_o he_o invit_v christian_n to_o imitate_v he_o as_o he_o do_v imitate_v christ_n out_o of_o which_o you_o will_v gather_v that_o priest_n must_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o there_o be_v some_o body_n to_o communicate_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v tell_v your_o minister_n and_o yourself_o too_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o many_o thing_n
not_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o pope_n wherefore_o you_o in_o go_v to_o indulgence_n for_o the_o dead_a seem_v to_o allow_v they_o for_o the_o live_n or_o rather_o show_v you_o can_v say_v against_o they_o now_o for_o apply_v indulgence_n to_o the_o dead_a though_o the_o manner_n of_o application_n be_v different_a and_o that_o we_o do_v not_o find_v example_n altogether_o so_o ancient_a as_o of_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o thing_n be_v in_o some_o sort_n the_o same_o suppose_v you_o grant_v the_o power_n of_o apply_v indulgence_n to_o the_o live_n as_o you_o can_v deny_v your_o own_o ground_n be_v lay_v thus_o therefore_o i_o show_v the_o matter_n to_o be_v the_o same_o suppose_v another_o point_n alsoe_o of_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o here_o to_o be_v dispute_v of_o to_o wit_n the_o communion_n of_o saint_n or_o communication_n which_o be_v between_o the_o saint_n live_v and_o dead_a either_o reign_v in_o heaven_n or_o suffering_n in_o satisfaction_n of_o their_o sin_n in_o purgatory_n this_o i_o say_v suppose_v the_o punishment_n which_o be_v dew_n here_o by_o the_o penitential_a canon_n may_v be_v take_v away_o as_o you_o confess_v which_o be_v not_o take_v away_o by_o indulgence_n nor_o suffer_v here_o according_a to_o the_o canon_n must_v be_v suffer_v there_o why_o may_v it_o not_o then_o be_v take_v away_o by_o apply_v indulgence_n to_o they_o there_o as_o well_o as_o by_o work_n which_o other_o man_n may_v do_v for_o they_o here_o on_o earth_n which_o according_a to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n be_v available_a for_o they_o there_o in_o purgatory_n which_o communion_n or_o communication_n among_o themselves_o be_v ground_v in_o the_o society_n and_o unity_n which_o they_o have_v with_o christ_n why_o may_v not_o the_o same_o unity_n and_o society_n be_v sufficient_a for_o they_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o merit_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n who_o have_v go_v before_o and_o leave_v that_o treasure_n of_o their_o merit_n as_o 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of_o pardon_n which_o be_v no_o more_o for_o the_o dead_a then_o for_o the_o live_n but_o only_o that_o you_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o matter_n either_o of_o the_o one_o or_o other_o or_o rather_o they_o be_v for_o the_o live_n only_o for_o indulgence_n be_v not_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o the_o dead_a unless_o that_o be_v express_v in_o the_o grant_n which_o be_v not_o so_o express_v in_o this_o grant_n of_o you_o it_o be_v also_o false_a because_o the_o very_a thing_n which_o you_o say_v and_o will_v prove_v by_o your_o authority_n be_v false_a to_o wit_n that_o we_o give_v pardon_n for_o thousand_o of_o year_n in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n for_o we_o do_v not_o so_o neither_o do_v we_o understand_v those_o pardon_n wherein_o be_v mention_v such_o number_n of_o year_n so_o as_o if_o man_n be_v without_o those_o pardon_n to_o remain_v so_o long_o in_o purgatory_n but_o we_o understand_v those_o year_n according_a to_o the_o penitential_a canon_n by_o which_o many_o year_n penance_n be_v dew_n for_o one_o sin_n and_o many_o man_n sin_n be_v both_o very_a grievous_a and_o a_o man_n may_v say_v without_o number_n according_a to_o the_o account_n of_o the_o ancient_a penitential_a canon_n they_o may_v soon_o amount_v to_o thousand_o of_o year_n which_o though_o a_o man_n can_v live_v to_o perform_v here_o in_o this_o world_n nor_o even_o in_o purgatory_n for_o the_o length_n of_o time_n yet_o he_o may_v in_o purgatory_n in_o few_o year_n space_n nay_o few_o month_n or_o few_o week_n space_n suffer_v so_o much_o punishment_n as_o be_v answerable_a to_o all_o that_o penance_n of_o many_o thousand_o of_o year_n which_o a_o man_n shall_v have_v perform_v here_o if_o he_o can_v have_v live_v so_o long_o in_o which_o case_n a_o man_n may_v have_v a_o pardon_n of_o so_o many_o thousand_o year_n as_o well_o as_o a_o plenary_a both_o come_n to_o one_o what_o strangeness_n then_o or_o impossibility_n be_v therein_o this_o discourse_n if_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o 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it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o 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what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o apostolic_a because_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n 32._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 32._o edant_fw-la ergo_fw-la say_v he_o origines_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la suarum_fw-la evoluant_fw-la ordinem_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la suorum_fw-la ita_fw-la per_fw-la successiones_fw-la ab_fw-la initio_fw-la decurrentem_fw-la ut_fw-la primus_fw-la ille_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aliquem_fw-la ex_fw-la apostolis_n etc._n etc._n let_v they_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n let_v they_o unroull_a or_o lay_v open_a the_o order_n or_o catalogue_n of_o their_o bishop_n so_o run_v by_o succession_n from_o the_o beginning_n that_o that_o first_o bishop_n have_v for_o author_n or_o praedessor_n some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n who_o yet_o have_v persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o in_o this_o manner_n the_o apostolic_a church_n draw_v down_o their_o pedigree_n as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n recount_v polycarpe_n place_v by_o john_n the_o roman_a church_n clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v on_o your_o behalf_n that_o your_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o a_o more_o stable_n and_o sure_a foundation_n than_o the_o now_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v more_o fruiteful_a and_o profitable_a and_o every_o way_n more_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a for_o the_o belief_n of_o every_o christian_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o believer_n which_o you_o prove_v lay_v way_n for_o a_o ground_n what_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o do_v receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o which_o one_o tenet_n you_o say_v we_o overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o you_o exemplify_v in_o baptism_n wherein_o if_o there_o want_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o baptizer_n the_o baptise_a be_v still_o a_o heathen_a and_o in_o state_n of_o damnation_n so_o of_o order_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordain_a fail_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n and_o consequenty_n if_o this_o intention_n be_v want_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o pope_n all_o succeed_a ordination_n will_v be_v void_a so_o also_o of_o matrimony_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n want_n it_o be_v but_o fornication_n etc._n etc._n thus_o you_o roll_v on_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o your_o discourse_n but_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o have_v a_o word_n or_o two_o with_o you_o before_o you_o go_v far_o you_o give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o you_o observe_v any_o order_n or_o number_n of_o your_o jurour_n as_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o jury_n whereupon_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v that_o you_o use_v this_o phrase_n of_o summons_n and_o grand_a inquest_n for_o the_o ever_o honour_a memory_n of_o your_o dear_a decease_a father_n who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o famous_a grand_a jury_n man_n of_o middlesex_n in_o his_o time_n from_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v learn_v only_o the_o name_n of_o a_o grand_a inquest_n but_o not_o the_o right_a order_n of_o impanel_a your_o jury_n nor_o even_o the_o right_a number_n of_o your_o jurour_n the_o foreman_n of_o your_o jury_n though_o you_o call_v he_o not_o so_o be_v bellarmine_n who_o you_o make_v to_o give_v up_o his_o verdict_n against_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o say_v no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n which_o you_o say_v overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o faith_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n say_v true_o be_v you_o in_o earnest_n or_o in_o jest_n i_o think_v by_o the_o matter_n you_o shall_v mean_v only_o in_o jest_n it_o be_v so_o idle_a but_o though_o this_o be_v your_o best_a excuse_n yet_o because_o you_o may_v take_v that_o ill_a
what_o merit_n but_o it_o be_v true_a walden_n as_o suarez_n well_o note_v though_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o this_o controversy_n but_o against_o the_o pelagian_n be_v somewhat_o too_o strict_a 16._o v._o bell._n lib._n 5_o the_o iustif_a cap._n 16._o and_o though_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o so_o well_o like_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o merit_n as_o alsoe_o some_o other_o divine_n do_v not_o so_o approve_v the_o word_n meritum_fw-la de_fw-la condigno_fw-la though_o in_o the_o thing_n itself_o they_o all_o agree_v to_o wit_n that_o aeternal_a life_n be_v give_v to_o man_n as_o the_o reward_n of_o their_o good_a work_n which_o be_v all_o that_o other_o mean_v by_o condign_a merit_n your_o last_o authority_n be_v a_o place_n of_o bell._n which_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o i_o wonder_v why_o you_o shall_v allege_v for_o your_o doctrine_n against_o we_o for_o it_o be_v we_o as_o well_o or_o more_o than_o you_o neither_o do_v we_o condemn_v you_o for_o not_o trust_v in_o your_o work_n 12._o chap._n 12._o or_o trust_v whole_o in_o christ_n if_o so_o be_v you_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o necessity_n and_o efficacy_n of_o good_a work_n for_o purchase_v grace_n and_o glory_n and_o that_o be_v your_o doctrine_n which_o you_o shall_v show_v to_o be_v safe_a but_o that_o you_o can_v nor_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o go_v about_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n all_o your_o proof_n sail_v in_o every_o point_n your_o vaunt_a conclusion_n of_o the_o safety_n profitt_a and_o comfort_n of_o your_o belief_n vanish_v into_o smoke_n as_o the_o rest_n do_v of_o the_o 12._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o our_o adversary_n convict_v by_o the_o evident_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n either_o ridiculous_o elude_v they_o or_o plain_o reject_v they_o chapter_n xii_o 1._o it_o can_v be_v unknown_a to_o any_o man_n of_o learning_n or_o that_o have_v but_o any_o the_o lest_o acquaintance_n with_o the_o controversy_n of_o this_o age_n what_o great_a advantage_n we_o catholic_n have_v by_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n how_o high_o we_o esteem_v they_o what_o confidence_n we_o place_n in_o they_o and_o how_o we_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o decision_n of_o our_o controversy_n and_o how_o small_a respect_n on_o the_o other_o side_n haeretique_n show_v either_o to_o their_o person_n or_o writing_n as_o be_v in_o their_o opinion_n but_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o error_n or_o rather_o how_o contemptible_o they_o speak_v of_o they_o for_o proof_n whereof_o a_o man_n need_v not_o go_v far_o than_o that_o little_a treatise_n of_o campian_n 10._o reason_n the_o 5._o of_o which_o be_v of_o the_o father_n where_o a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o the_o haeretique_n say_v of_o they_o they_o call_v one_o a_o old_a dote_a man_n another_o they_o call_v a_o childish_a writer_n a_o three_o they_o call_v a_o dolt_n and_o forsake_v of_o god_n a_o four_o they_o call_v a_o fable_a that_o know_v not_o what_o he_o say_v a_o five_o they_o say_v be_v bewitch_v by_o the_o devil_n a_o sixth_o they_o say_v be_v as_o damn_v as_o the_o devil_n injurious_a to_o the_o apostle_n blasphemous_a wicked_a impious_a and_o what_o father_n be_v these_o think_v you_o that_o they_o name_v thus_o who_o but_o denis_n the_o areopagite_n hippolytus_n cyprian_n gregory_n nazianzene_n ambrose_n and_o hierome_n and_o for_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n they_o say_v this_o man_n be_v like_o dream_n and_o most_o pernicious_a another_o have_v foul_a wen_n another_o write_v like_o a_o mad_a or_o frantic_a man_n another_o bring_v forth_o darnel_n and_o dregs_n other_o have_v leave_v blasphemy_n to_o posterity_n and_o the_o like_a one_o haeretique_n prefer_v one_o caluin_n before_o a_o 100_o augustine_n another_o care_v not_o for_o a_o thousand_o augustine_n cyprian_n church_n who_o very_a word_n and_o place_n be_v quote_v by_o f._n campian_n and_o yet_o here_o be_v a_o knight_n of_o the_o same_o brood_n that_o undertake_v forsooth_o in_o a_o particular_a section_n to_o prove_v that_o we_o establish_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n &_o decline_v the_o certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o our_o own_o by_o say_v that_o we_o avoid_v the_o proof_n of_o father_n wherein_o he_o show_v himself_o more_o &_o more_o impertinent_a the_o far_o he_o go_v for_o whereas_o there_o have_v be_v sometime_o one_o father_n that_o have_v err_v or_o hold_v some_o singular_a opinion_n different_a from_o the_o common_a of_o other_o father_n &_o one_o or_o two_o ancient_a writer_n that_o have_v even_o become_v haeretique_n because_o our_o author_n note_v those_o thing_n so_o as_o no_o haeretique_n can_v but_o acknowledge_v that_o to_o be_v true_a which_o we_o say_v nay_o and_o he_o himself_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v against_o we_o he_o account_v this_o forsooth_o to_o be_v elude_v of_o the_o father_n or_o reject_v their_o evident_a testimony_n neither_o do_v he_o in_o all_o this_o section_n bring_v one_o argument_n or_o one_o word_n of_o authority_n to_o disprove_v any_o thing_n that_o any_o author_n of_o we_o have_v say_v nor_o do_v he_o allege_v even_o the_o reason_n which_o our_o author_n give_v of_o their_o say_n whereas_o they_o give_v very_o many_o &_o solid_a reason_n so_o that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v tell_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v in_o this_o manner_n of_o deal_v nor_o what_o to_o say_v to_o he_o for_o even_o the_o word_n of_o our_o author_n which_o he_o bring_v be_v very_o sufficient_a answer_n so_o as_o i_o see_v not_o well_o what_o more_o he_o need_v to_o have_v but_o because_o in_o the_o fashion_n or_o sleight_n manner_n of_o speak_v he_o may_v delude_v some_o of_o his_o reader_n and_o make_v they_o think_v the_o answer_n insufficient_a i_o must_v a_o little_a more_o discover_v his_o impertinency_n in_o leave_v out_o some_o of_o the_o answer_n and_o extenuate_a other_o and_o even_o in_o bring_v some_o nothing_o at_o all_o to_o this_o purpose_n 2._o and_o so_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o say_v in_o the_o first_o place_n that_o touch_v the_o all_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n s._n chrysostome_n say_v the_o church_n be_v know_v tantummodo_fw-la only_a by_o the_o scripture_n &_o hereupon_o he_o ask_v this_o question_n what_o say_v the_o romanist_n to_o this_o authority_n bell._n say_v he_o answer_v it_o be_v probable_a the_o author_n be_v a_o catholic_a but_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v none_o of_o chrysost_n thus_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o find_v not_o this_o place_n object_v in_o bellar._n whereto_o to_o give_v any_o answer_n at_o all_o but_o there_o be_v another_o place_n not_o much_o unlike_a and_o to_o that_o he_o answer_v that_o the_o work_n out_o of_o which_o it_o be_v take_v be_v not_o chrys_n but_o another_o common_o cite_v by_o the_o name_n of_o author_n imperfecti_fw-la who_o bell._n say_v be_v either_o a_o arrian_n himself_o or_o his_o work_n be_v corrupt_v by_o arrian_n and_o this_o he_o do_v not_o bare_o say_v neither_o in_o his_o controversy_n nor_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr scripto_fw-la eccle_n 11._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 11._o which_o be_v the_o book_n here_o cite_v by_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o bellarmine_n say_v the_o thing_n but_o not_o by_o way_n of_o answer_n as_o he_o make_v he_o i_o say_v he_o do_v not_o only_o say_v it_o but_o also_o prove_v it_o by_o a_o plain_a example_n or_o two_o of_o arianisme_n chrysost_n verb._n io._n chrysost_n but_o because_o he_o find_v catholic_a doctrine_n in_o other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o work_n and_o in_o the_o same_o point_n he_o rather_o think_v the_o author_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o his_o work_n only_o to_o have_v be_v corrupt_v and_o this_o be_v most_o true_a and_o evident_a which_o have_v the_o knight_n but_o set_v down_o thus_o plain_o what_o have_v there_o be_v more_o to_o be_v object_v or_o answer_v but_o he_o curtail_v it_o as_o if_o bell._n have_v say_v only_o it_o be_v none_o of_o chrys_n which_o be_v also_o so_o true_a &_o plain_a as_o he_o himself_o can_v gainsay_v it_o and_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o ashamed_a for_o the_o credit_n of_o his_o objection_n to_o call_v it_o chrysostom_n but_o the_o place_n itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v the_o all_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n as_o it_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o but_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o sir_n humphreys_n wit_n for_o how_o many_o way_n may_v it_o be_v answer_v even_o suppose_v that_o the_o word_n be_v s._n chrysostom_n or_o some_o other_o good_a author_n be_v but_o these_o that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n for_o i_o ask_v he_o
yet_o the_o bread_n and_o cup_n be_v but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o all_o must_v drink_v thereof_o but_o only_o that_o all_o that_o drink_v drink_v but_o of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o cup._n three_o he_o answer_v that_o at_o most_o take_v the_o word_n how_o you_o will_v they_o can_v signify_v no_o more_o but_o only_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o tyme._n all_o this_o do_v bell._n say_v which_o you_o can_v craftl_o dissemble_v and_o make_v your_o reader_n believe_v as_o if_o he_o shuffle_v over_o the_o matter_n only_o with_o a_o different_a read_n without_o far_a reason_n but_o in_o this_o you_o line_v it_o as_o you_o do_v every_o where_o else_o 5._o a_o 4._o author_n be_v origen_n out_o of_o who_o you_o have_v these_o word_n touch_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n body_n thus_o much_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o typical_a and_o symbolical_a body_n to_o which_o you_o say_v sixtus_n senensis_n make_v answer_n that_o he_o suspect_v the_o place_n to_o be_v corrupt_v thus_o you_o here_o and_o a_o little_a after_o you_o come_v about_o with_o origen_n again_o and_o say_v if_o we_o produce_v origen_n ribera_n the_o jesuit_n say_v he_o be_v full_a of_o error_n which_o the_o church_n always_o detest_v to_o the_o first_o place_n i_o answer_v that_o beside_o that_o answer_n of_o sixtus_n senensis_n which_o i_o do_v not_o see_v you_o disprove_v 8._o v._o bell._n de_fw-mi euch_fw-ge lib._n 2._o cap._n 8._o you_o know_v other_o catholic_a author_n give_v other_o answer_n some_o say_v not_o only_o that_o place_n to_o be_v corrupt_v but_o that_o whole_a work_n of_o he_o to_o be_v dubiae_fw-la fidei_fw-la of_o uncertain_a authority_n other_o explicate_v that_o &_o other_o place_n bring_v out_o of_o the_o same_o work_n by_o peter_n martyr_n against_o gardiner_n not_o of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n body_n but_o of_o a_o certain_a holy_a bread_n which_o be_v want_v to_o be_v give_v to_o such_o as_o do_v not_o communicate_v in_o place_n of_o 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not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o invocate_v angel_n say_v withal_o that_o in_o the_o same_o council_n publish_v by_o merlin_n and_o crabbe_n by_o change_n of_o a_o letter_n angelos_n be_v turn_v into_o angulos_fw-la angel_n into_o angle_n and_o corner_n thus_o that_o we_o must_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angle_n or_o corner_n and_o this_o say_v you_o lest_o so_o fair_a a_o evidence_n of_o a_o ancient_a council_n shall_v be_v produce_v against_o invocation_n of_o angel_n council_n v._o bin._n to_o 1._o council_n thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_z wherein_o first_o be_v to_o be_v note_v your_o error_n in_o chronology_n concern_v the_o time_n of_o this_o council_n which_o you_o make_v to_o be_v the_o year_n 368._o which_o be_v 43._o 35._o con._n laodien_n can_v 35._o year_n after_o the_o 1._o council_n of_o nice_a whereas_o it_o be_v celebrate_v before_o that_o council_n second_o your_o corruption_n in_o the_o translation_n and_o 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angel_n as_o we_o use_v for_o in_o this_o canon_n be_v only_o forbid_v such_o idolatrical_a invocation_n as_o the_o simonian_n and_o other_o haeretique_n do_v use_v praefer_v the_o angel_n before_o christ_n and_o make_v they_o the_o creator_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o only_a or_o chief_a mediator_n without_o who_o help_n there_o be_v no_o access_n to_o be_v have_v to_o god_n which_o be_v the_o same_o wicked_a haeresy_n which_o saint_n paul_n speak_v against_o coloss_n 2._o as_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v he_o by_o who_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o those_o haeretique_n leave_v christ_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angel_n in_o this_o sense_n nemo_fw-la vos_fw-la seducat_fw-la non_fw-la tenens_fw-la caput_fw-la etc._n etc._n let_v no_o man_n seduce_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o head_n that_o be_v not_o hold_v by_o christ_n now_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o we_o by_o invocation_n of_o angel_n forsake_v christ_n