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will_v be_v sufficient_a to_o wipe_v off_o that_o aspersion_n and_o you_o must_v pardon_v we_o if_o wherein_o dr._n usher_n in_o this_o point_n differ_v from_o we_o in_o judgement_n express_v himself_o too_o far_o we_o therein_o though_o we_o otherwise_o reverence_v he_o both_o for_o his_o piety_n and_o learning_n look_v upon_o he_o as_o a_o man_n we_o can_v as_o yet_o be_v persuade_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v the_o only_a true_a constitute_v church_n of_o england_n from_o who_o because_o we_o have_v sever_v ourselves_o you_o do_v here_o though_o without_o any_o reason_n charge_v we_o to_o be_v schismatical_a and_o to_o have_v rend_v ourselves_o from_o a_o true_a constitute_v church_n three_o but_o see_v in_o this_o three_o and_o last_o touch_v those_o that_o be_v chargeable_a with_o heresy_n and_o schism_n you_o profess_v to_o diffent_v from_o we_o you_o may_v have_v testify_v either_o your_o assent_n to_o or_o dissent_v from_o that_o previous_a course_n that_o in_o our_o answer_n we_o mention_v be_v to_o be_v take_v with_o these_o before_o they_o be_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v especial_o consider_v we_o have_v tell_v you_o that_o though_o you_o allow_v of_o admonition_n of_o the_o scandalous_a before_o there_o be_v process_n to_o the_o censure_n of_o they_o yet_o you_o say_v nothing_o of_o this_o course_n to_o be_v take_v with_o the_o other_o and_o wherein_o therefore_o we_o purposely_o declare_v ourselves_o that_o if_o you_o judge_v the_o previous_a course_n of_o admonition_n necessary_a to_o be_v hold_v with_o the_o scandalous_a you_o may_v not_o censure_v we_o as_o indulgent_a towards_o any_o of_o the_o other_o that_o may_v be_v in_o any_o of_o our_o congregation_n though_o we_o say_v the_o number_n of_o they_o be_v not_o considerable_a to_o the_o number_n of_o the_o scandalous_a because_o we_o take_v it_o to_o be_v our_o duty_n according_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o
new_a term_v assembly_n not_o for_o the_o word_n sake_n assembly_n but_o first_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o word_n provincial_a although_o that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o dr._n Ê‹sher_n who_o in_o his_o reduction_n of_o episcopacy_n unto_o the_o form_n of_o synodical_a government_n receive_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v express_o mention_v among_o his_o proposal_n as_o we_o say_v also_o in_o our_o answer_n the_o provincial_a synod_n will_v not_o have_v be_v accuse_v of_o novelty_n but_o that_o which_o you_o be_v here_o offend_v at_o be_v that_o this_o county_n of_o lancaster_n shall_v be_v term_v the_o province_n of_o lancaster_n and_o the_o synod_n and_o assembly_n therein_o convene_v shall_v be_v term_v provincial_a for_o which_o yet_o you_o have_v little_a reason_n if_o you_o have_v consider_v all_o this_o be_v do_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o parliament_n who_o have_v power_n to_o bound_v the_o province_n and_o the_o synod_n or_o assembly_n to_o be_v hold_v thereih_o for_o the_o order_n and_o regulate_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o church_n within_o the_o bound_n set_v as_o they_o judge_v to_o be_v most_o convenient_a and_o see_v that_o a_o synod_n within_o the_o bound_n of_o a_o county_n may_v meet_v more_o frequent_o with_o conveniency_n for_o the_o regulate_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o several_a classical_a presbytery_n within_o those_o bound_n then_o if_o the_o bound_n have_v be_v large_a especial_o if_o so_o large_a as_o to_o have_v comprehend_v within_o they_o several_a county_n as_o former_o the_o two_o province_n of_o york_n and_o canâ—erbury_n comprehend_v all_o the_o county_n within_o the_o land_n and_o which_o doubtless_o the_o parliament_n consider_v when_o they_o order_v decemb._n 21._o 1646._o that_o the_o several_a class_n in_o luncashire_n shall_v be_v one_o province_n and_o of_o which_o we_o have_v before_o give_v you_o a_o account_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o your_o first_o paper_n if_o you_o have_v acquiesce_v in_o the_o authority_n of_o parliament_n as_o sufficient_a for_o the_o order_n of_o such_o a_o matter_n you_o will_v not_o have_v find_v fault_n with_o this_o for_o its_o novelty_n all_o law_n that_o be_v new_o make_v though_o for_o the_o ease_n of_o the_o subject_n be_v as_o liable_a to_o exception_n in_o that_o respect_n as_o this_o your_o next_o reason_n why_o you_o charge_v our_o provincial_a assembly_n with_o novelty_n be_v in_o regard_n of_o the_o place_n at_o preston_n but_o this_o exception_n be_v prevent_v in_o our_o answer_n unto_o which_o here_o you_o make_v no_o reply_n when_o we_o say_v if_o provincial_a assembly_n be_v warrantable_a and_o have_v be_v of_o ancient_a use_n in_o the_o church_n that_o have_v be_v long_o in_o disuse_n they_o of_o late_o begin_v to_o be_v hold_v at_o preston_n that_o can_v not_o just_o incur_v your_o censure_n and_o certain_o the_o most_o famous_a synod_n and_o council_n that_o have_v be_v or_o that_o may_v be_v hereafter_o must_v be_v all_o accuse_v in_o regard_n of_o 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he_o make_v for_o such_o a_o assembly_n but_o here_o 1._o we_o must_v mind_v you_o that_o we_o do_v not_o cite_v dr._n usher_n for_o to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o provincial_a assembly_n in_o regard_n of_o these_o member_n constitute_v they_o let_v our_o answer_n be_v peruse_v it_o will_v be_v find_v to_o allege_v he_o for_o to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o order_n church_n affair_n and_o have_v the_o power_n of_o rule_a they_o and_o because_o we_o do_v not_o know_v whether_o you_o be_v not_o so_o fond_a on_o prelacy_n as_o not_o to_o allow_v of_o these_o assembly_n we_o quote_v dr._n usher_n for_o to_o prove_v their_o antiquity_n neither_o do_v we_o conceive_v that_o dr._n usher_n will_v have_v judge_v these_o assembly_n where_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v member_n to_o have_v be_v whole_o new_a or_o the_o pastor_n to_o have_v lose_v their_o authority_n in_o they_o because_o the_o roll_a elder_n 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observe_v by_o the_o provincial_a assembly_n of_o london_n that_o sutlivius_n a_o prelatical_a divine_a and_o otherwise_o a_o opposer_n of_o the_o office_n of_o rule_v elder_n the_o council_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 8._o say_v that_o among_o the_o jew_n seniores_fw-la tribuum_fw-la the_o elder_n of_o the_o tribe_n do_v sit_v with_o the_o priest_n in_o judge_a controversy_n of_o the_o law_n of_o god_n hence_o he_o argue_v against_o bellarmine_n that_o so_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n also_o because_o the_o privilege_n of_o christian_n be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o jew_n and_o it_o be_v not_o deny_v by_o other_o prelatica_n divine_n but_o by_o they_o hold_v and_o prove_v that_o man_n of_o ability_n which_o be_v not_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v admit_v into_o general_a council_n as_o they_o have_v be_v also_o ancient_o and_o which_o be_v too_o manifest_a to_o be_v deny_v it_o appear_v to_o have_v be_v so_o from_o the_o ancient_a historian_n 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to_o the_o pole_n we_o first_o start_v at_o like_o a_o horse_n in_o a_o mill_n that_o travel_v all_o day_n and_o be_v no_o further_o at_o night_n than_o he_o be_v in_o the_o morning_n in_o which_o also_o there_o be_v as_o little_a truth_n as_o in_o your_o other_o assertion_n we_o have_v already_o show_v that_o our_o first_o essay_n be_v to_o give_v you_o some_o account_n how_o the_o term_n when_o we_o call_v this_o the_o first_o class_n within_o the_o province_n of_o lancaster_n which_o you_o have_v call_v we_o be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o parliament_n have_v give_v we_o by_o their_o order_n that_o which_o we_o attempt_v in_o the_o four_o section_n of_o our_o answer_n to_o which_o you_o here_o reply_v be_v to_o show_v that_o the_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n for_o the_o
presbyterian_a government_n be_v still_o in_o force_n and_o that_o those_o rule_v lay_v down_o in_o they_o awarrant_v all_o our_o act_n and_o particular_o what_o we_o have_v publish_v in_o our_o several_a congregation_n in_o our_o paper_n and_o which_o whosoever_o do_v not_o so_o start_v at_o because_o they_o be_v ordinance_n of_o parliament_n but_o that_o he_o keep_v in_o his_o right_a mind_n he_o will_v see_v to_o be_v different_a thing_n but_o you_o do_v still_o go_v on_o with_o your_o flout_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o to_o be_v that_o we_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v which_o be_v your_o own_o phrase_n and_o not_o we_o our_o government_n to_o be_v establish_v by_o civil_a authority_n the_o first_o work_n we_o take_v in_o hand_n and_o that_o we_o be_v no_o further_o yet_o but_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v your_o own_o phrase_n again_o as_o if_o the_o matter_n must_v needs_o be_v as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v or_o therefore_o true_a because_o you_o represent_v it_o to_o be_v so_o after_o a_o scoff_a manner_n five_o and_o when_o you_o have_v thus_o please_v yourselves_o with_o your_o taunt_a expression_n you_o now_o will_v profess_v to_o do_v we_o a_o kindness_n be_v willing_a to_o conduct_v we_o if_o possible_a into_o the_o good_a old_a way_n again_o by_o take_v off_o our_o government_n from_o the_o establishment_n of_o authority_n upon_o the_o proof_n whereof_o as_o you_o say_v so_o great_a a_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n do_v insist_v but_o see_v the_o way_n you_o herein_o go_v as_o will_v appear_v anon_o do_v quite_o overthrow_v all_o other_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n as_o well_o as_o those_o that_o be_v for_o the_o establishment_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n you_o must_v excuse_v we_o though_o upon_o your_o most_o earnest_a entreaty_n we_o dare_v not_o follow_v you_o in_o this_o your_o way_n be_v wâ—ll_n assure_v we_o shall_v be_v then_o indeed_o out_o of_o our_o way_n quite_o six_o but_o now_o you_o come_v to_o answer_v to_o the_o order_n and_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n by_o unrecited_a and_o so_o to_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o assemble_v in_o parliament_n aug_n 29._o 1648_o establish_v the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o ireland_n and_o which_o remain_v as_o we_o say_v unrepealed_a to_o this_o day_n and_o receive_v strength_n by_o the_o humble_a advice_n assent_v to_o by_o his_o late_a highness_n and_o which_o ordinance_n be_v by_o we_o more_o especial_o insist_v on_o but_o what_o be_v it_o that_o you_o allege_v to_o take_v away_o the_o strength_n of_o any_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n that_o we_o make_v mention_v of_o in_o our_o answer_n in_o the_o first_o place_n you_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o speak_v of_o a_o government_n establish_v by_o law_n you_o hope_v we_o mean_v such_o as_o have_v the_o strength_n and_o force_n of_o a_o law_n to_o bind_v the_o free_a bear_v people_n of_o this_o nation_n and_o thereupon_o you_o question_n whether_o our_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o though_o unrepealed_a to_o this_o day_n be_v of_o that_o force_n and_o touch_v this_o you_o refer_v we_o to_o the_o judgement_n and_o resolution_n of_o the_o sage_n of_o the_o law_n affirm_v that_o nothing_o can_v have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o law_n to_o bind_v the_o people_n without_o the_o concurrent_a consent_n of_o the_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n and_o you_o instance_n particular_o in_o the_o lord_n cook_n and_o several_a passage_n in_o his_o institutes_n in_o answer_n unto_o all_o which_o we_o must_v needs_o in_o the_o first_o place_n as_o we_o do_v in_o our_o answer_n to_o your_o first_o paper_n apologise_v good_a for_o ourselves_o that_o be_v no_o lawyer_n we_o shall_v not_o take_v upon_o we_o to_o determine_v any_o law_n case_n and_o that_o our_o cause_n in_o this_o particular_a be_v fit_a to_o be_v plead_v by_o the_o learned_a in_o the_o law_n that_o have_v far_o better_a ability_n for_o it_o than_o we_o have_v only_o till_o some_o of_o these_o undertake_v in_o this_o particular_a to_o plead_v for_o we_o we_o hope_v we_o may_v be_v allow_v free_o to_o speak_v for_o ourselves_o and_o here_o we_o shall_v not_o say_v all_o that_o we_o can_v much_o less_o what_o person_n better_a able_a to_o deal_v in_o a_o argument_n of_o this_o nature_n might_n but_o that_o which_o we_o shall_v say_v be_v first_o something_o in_o the_o general_a then_o we_o shall_v proceed_v to_o answer_v more_o particular_o in_o the_o general_a we_o say_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o if_o the_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n for_o church_n government_n be_v of_o no_o force_n because_o there_o be_v not_o the_o concurent_fw-fr consent_n of_o three_o estate_n to_o the_o make_n of_o they_o than_o all_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n without_o exception_n of_o any_o be_v null_n and_o void_a and_o of_o no_o force_n to_o bind_v the_o people_n as_o well_o as_o those_o that_o concern_v church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o concern_v all_o committee_n that_o have_v be_v throughout_o the_o land_n and_o those_o that_o have_v act_v under_o they_o or_o do_v yet_o act_v and_o all_o judge_n and_o justice_n that_o have_v act_v or_o do_v act_n upon_o any_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n to_o consider_v what_o they_o have_v to_o say_v to_o what_o you_o do_v here_o allege_v against_o their_o proceed_n as_o well_o as_o against_o we_o nay_o then_o the_o act_n make_v anno_fw-la 1650_o for_o relief_n of_o religious_a and_o peaceable_a people_n that_o yet_o be_v afterward_o much_o insist_v on_o by_o you_o be_v of_o no_o force_n for_o to_o that_o questionless_a there_o be_v not_o the_o concurrent_a consent_n of_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n 2._o that_o the_o parliament_n themselves_o who_o make_v these_o ordinance_n declare_v that_o the_o king_n have_v not_o only_o withdraw_v himself_o from_o the_o parliament_n but_o levy_v war_n against_o it_o salus_fw-la populi_fw-la be_v suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la and_o thereupon_o by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n they_o proceed_v to_o settle_v the_o affair_n both_o of_o church_n and_o state_n without_o his_o consent_n yea_o and_o to_o repeal_v some_o former_a act_n and_o as_o they_o do_v express_o when_o they_o pass_v the_o ordinance_n for_o the_o directory_n for_o worship_n repeal_n the_o act_n of_o parliament_n that_o have_v be_v pass_v former_o for_o the_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n as_o appear_v by_o their_o ordinance_n for_o that_o purpose_n of_o jan._n 3_o 1644._o and_o also_o when_o they_o pass_v another_o ordinance_n octob._n 9_o 1646._o for_o the_o abolish_n of_o arch-bishop_n and_o bishop_n within_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n and_o dominion_n of_o wâ—les_n by_o which_o they_o be_v express_o disenable_v to_o use_v or_o put_v in_o ure_n any_o archiepiscopall_a or_o episcopal_a jurisdiction_n or_o authority_n by_o force_n of_o any_o letter_n patent_n from_o the_o crown_n make_v or_o to_o be_v make_v or_o by_o any_o other_o authority_n whatsoever_o any_o law_n statute_n usage_n or_o custom_n to_o the_o contrary_a notwithstanding_o as_o appear_v from_o the_o very_a word_n of_o that_o ordinance_n and_o if_o we_o forget_v not_o it_o be_v by_o they_o in_o those_o time_n further_o declare_v that_o however_o the_o king_n have_v withdraw_v his_o person_n from_o the_o parliament_n yet_o his_o royal_a authority_n can_v not_o be_v withdraw_v but_o we_o know_v that_o what_o the_o parliament_n in_o those_o day_n act_v in_o the_o pass_v those_o and_o such_o like_a ordinance_n be_v approve_v by_o the_o sage_n of_o the_o law_n that_o in_o those_o time_n adhere_v to_o the_o parliament_n and_o this_o will_v now_o lead_v we_o to_o return_v our_o more_o particular_a answer_n to_o what_o you_o present_v for_o to_o take_v away_o the_o oblige_a force_n of_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n and_o therefore_o 1._o we_o say_v that_o that_o long_a parliament_n as_o you_o call_v it_o who_o do_v so_o much_o honour_v the_o lord_n cook_n as_o to_o publish_v his_o work_n by_o their_o special_a appointment_n do_v so_o well_o understand_v he_o that_o they_o be_v well_o assure_v there_o be_v not_o any_o thing_n in_o they_o that_o condemn_v their_o proceed_n as_o illegal_a as_o on_o the_o contrary_a we_o do_v thereupon_o conceive_v that_o if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o those_o time_n he_o will_v have_v justify_v they_o and_o further_o we_o say_v under_o correction_n that_o all_o yovalledg_n out_o of_o he_o be_v and_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o case_n ordinary_a not_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o time_n when_o the_o ordinance_n for_o church_n government_n and_o other_o ordinance_n for_o the_o settle_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o nation_n be_v pass_v when_o the_o king_n have_v withdraw_v himself_o from_o the_o parliament_n and_o levy_v war_n against_o it_o 2._o but_o to_o add_v some_o further_a confirmation_n
the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n government_n office_n and_o ordinance_n be_v first_o give_v to_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n before_o they_o be_v give_v to_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a church_n although_o it_o be_v true_a also_o that_o he_o who_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n must_v also_o be_v a_o member_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n under_o the_o discipline_n and_o government_n thereof_o but_o we_o do_v not_o argue_v from_o what_o make_v you_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n to_o prove_v you_o to_o be_v member_n of_o some_o one_o or_o other_o of_o our_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o be_v under_o the_o government_n of_o this_o class_n this_o we_o prove_v from_o individuate_a circumstance_n because_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n appoint_v by_o authority_n of_o parliament_n and_o other_o circumstance_n and_o so_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o except_o man_n renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n but_o we_o say_v we_o look_v upon_o all_o those_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n who_o have_v not_o renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n of_o which_o sort_n we_o know_v not_o any_o among_o we_o as_o person_n we_o have_v a_o inspection_n over_o and_o appoint_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n to_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n which_o yet_o we_o exercise_v towards_o all_o according_a to_o those_o rule_n and_o that_o moderation_n that_o be_v prescribe_v in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v answer_v all_o that_o you_o have_v here_o present_v to_o take_v off_o our_o government_n from_o its_o establishment_n by_o the_o civil_a sanction_n for_o it_o be_v not_o your_o come_n over_o again_o with_o the_o act_n of_o 1650._o already_o answer_v and_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v it_o nor_o your_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v the_o close_a of_o the_o eleven_o section_n of_o the_o humble_a advice_n and_o not_o prove_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o that_o will_v prove_v either_o a_o express_a or_o implicit_a repeal_n though_o press_v with_o never_o so_o much_o vehemency_n of_o expression_n that_o only_o proclaim_v your_o heat_n and_o earnest_a desire_n to_o have_v it_o so_o and_o how_o glad_o you_o will_v be_v believe_v upon_o your_o word_n and_o confidence_n in_o this_o matter_n when_o you_o want_v further_a argument_n to_o make_v out_o what_o you_o say_v the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n v._n and_o thus_o have_v prove_v your_o presbyterian_a government_n to_o have_v the_o civil_a sanction_n just_a thus_o and_o no_o otherwise_o you_o come_v now_o to_o answer_v more_o particular_o to_o that_o which_o follow_v and_o first_o you_o explicate_v what_o be_v before_o dark_a unto_o we_o who_o be_v mean_v by_o the_o many_o person_n of_o all_o sort_n that_o be_v member_n of_o congregation_n etc._n etc._n and_o you_o tell_v we_o all_o person_n be_v within_o your_o verge_n none_o without_o except_o they_o will_v renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n but_o be_v within_o the_o verge_n of_o your_o presbyterian_a government_n their_o not_o associate_a with_o you_o in_o regard_n of_o government_n do_v not_o exempt_v they_o from_o censure_n by_o it_o etc._n etc._n independent_o anabaptist_n and_o other_o all_o be_v subject_a and_o censure_v by_o your_o government_n if_o they_o shall_v censurable_a be_v such_o offender_n as_o by_o the_o rule_n thereof_o be_v just_o censurable_a it_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n arbitrary_a for_o private_a person_n at_o their_o own_o will_n and_o pleasure_n to_o exempt_v themselves_o from_o under_o that_o ecclesiastical_a government_n that_o be_v settle_v by_o authority_n here_o gentleman_n you_o may_v do_v well_o to_o consider_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o subject_v yourselves_o to_o the_o contempt_n and_o scorn_n of_o all_o other_o party_n who_o conceit_n they_o have_v as_o full_a power_n by_o etc._n their_o rule_n of_o church_n discipline_n to_o censure_v you_o as_o you_o have_v they_o jam_fw-la sumus_fw-la ergo_fw-la pares_fw-la yet_o they_o dare_v not_o censure_n or_o punish_v any_o out_o of_o their_o church_n membership_n contrary_a to_o the_o several_a act_n make_v for_o toleration_n to_o the_o act_n of_o the_o 27._o september_n 1650._o and_o to_o the_o express_a article_n in_o the_o humble_a advice_n above_o mention_v if_o you_o be_v so_o bold_a we_o have_v tell_v you_o before_o and_o tell_v you_o again_o a_o ordinance_n of_o lord_n and_o commons_o for_o settle_v of_o your_o fresbyterian_a government_n will_v be_v no_o sufficient_a plea_n for_o your_o act_n contrary_a to_o the_o know_a law_n since_o make_v but_o will_v prove_v you_o contemner_n of_o all_o civil_a power_n and_o may_v run_v you_o upon_o a_o praemunire_n but_o here_o you_o seem_v offend_v at_o we_o for_o call_v presbytery_n a_o common_a fold_n what_o presbytery_n a_o know_a scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o and_o interpret_v by_o object_n sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o we_o do_v as_o have_v be_v before_o declare_v to_o be_v term_v a_o common_a fold_n you_o may_v have_v use_v a_o more_o civil_a expression_n what_o presbytery_n interpret_v by_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o you_o do_v how_o be_v that_o we_o shall_v tell_v you_o the_o father_n be_v different_a in_o the_o sense_n and_o interpretation_n answ_n of_o this_o word_n presbytery_n in_o the_o scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o the_o latin_a father_n general_o as_o hierome_n ambrose_n primasius_n anselm_n and_o other_o take_v this_o word_n presbytery_n for_o the_o function_n which_o timothy_n receive_v when_o he_o be_v make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o thus_o calvin_n take_v it_o in_o his_o institutes_n quod_fw-la de_fw-la impositione_n manuum_fw-la presbyterii_fw-la dicitur_fw-la â—non_fw-la ità _fw-la accipio_fw-la quasi_fw-la paulus_n de_fw-la seniorum_fw-la fine_a collegio_fw-la loquatur_fw-la sedhoc_fw-la nomine_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la ipsam_fw-la intelligo_fw-la the_o greek_a father_n as_o ignatius_n chrysostome_n theodoret_n theophilact_fw-mi oecumenius_n and_o other_o and_o some_o few_o of_o the_o latin_n also_o take_v it_o for_o the_o company_n of_o presbyter_n i._n e._n bishop_n who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o new_a make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n likewise_o in_o his_o comment_n upon_o this_o place_n it_o be_v interpret_v by_o calvin_n say_v presbyterium_fw-la qui_fw-la hic_fw-la collectivum_fw-la nomen_fw-la esse_fw-la putant_fw-la pro_fw-la collegio_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la positum_fw-la rectè_fw-la sâ—nâ—iunt_fw-la meo_fw-la judicio_fw-la although_o he_o be_v here_o as_o flat_a opposite_a to_o his_o former_a judgement_n as_o high_a noon_n be_v to_o midnight_n and_o we_o fear_v wander_v we_o shall_v find_v you_o as_o waver_a and_o unsettle_a in_o you_o when_o it_o come_v to_o scan_v for_o divers_a of_o the_o father_n you_o say_v interpret_v this_o word_n as_o you_o do_v and_o as_o you_o have_v before_o declare_v now_o how_o you_o interpret_v it_o and_o where_o to_o find_v this_o place_n where_o it_o be_v before_o declare_v that_o your_o interpretation_n agree_v with_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n we_o have_v not_o yet_o discover_v indeed_o we_o find_v you_o quote_v dr_n usher_n that_o learned_a and_o reverend_a antiquary_n to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o synod_n and_o assembly_n and_o thereby_o you_o think_v he_o vindicate_v your_o assembly_n in_o our_o thought_n from_o all_o suspicion_n of_o novelty_n we_o find_v also_o by_o you_o out_o of_o he_o there_o quote_v certain_a father_n as_o first_o ignatius_n who_o by_o presbytery_n mention_v by_o paul_n 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o do_v understand_v the_o community_n of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbyter_n or_o elder_n and_o for_o further_a proof_n tertullian_n be_v allege_v in_o his_o general_a apology_n for_o christian_n that_o old-beaten_a say_n by_o you_o and_o your_o party_n president_n probati_fw-la quique_fw-la seniores_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o do_v these_o interpret_v as_o you_o do_v be_v presbytery_n such_o as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v establish_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n and_o such_o as_o you_o stand_v for_o in_o your_o sense_n be_v it_o we_o say_v so_o understand_v by_o dr_n usher_n and_o do_v he_o bring_v in_o these_o father_n speak_v in_o this_o sense_n if_o we_o press_v you_o to_o stand_v to_o their_o opinion_n and_o sense_n you_o will_v run_v back_o how_o may_v you_o then_o for_o shame_n assert_v that_o their_o interpretation_n be_v the_o same_o with_o you_o dr_n usher_n judgement_n of_o assembly_n agree_v with_o you_o and_o his_o proposal_n of_o assembly_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n with_o you_o who_o you_o quote_v you_o say_v as_o more_o likely_a to_o sway_v with_o we_o in_o case_n we_o do_v differ_v from_o you_o in_o this_o point_n and_o here_o these_o father_n be_v bring_v in_o give_v the_o same_o interpretation_n as_o you_o do_v will_v you_o thus_o confident_o assert_v
custom_n not_o to_o be_v find_v mention_v or_o awarrant_v by_o the_o scripture_n make_v with_o they_o the_o scripture_n imperfect_a and_o that_o their_o imperfection_n must_v be_v supply_v by_o these_o unwritten_a tradition_n but_o wherein_o they_o be_v oppose_v by_o our_o protestant_a divine_n to_o who_o we_o send_v you_o touch_v this_o matter_n 3._o but_o that_o we_o may_v come_v to_o speak_v to_o the_o canon_n themselves_o that_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o this_o council_n particular_o 1._o first_o we_o do_v not_o find_v in_o that_o six_o canon_n that_o you_o do_v chief_o insist_v on_o any_o of_o the_o word_n patriarch_n primate_n or_o archbishop_n at_o all_o there_o use_v only_o it_o be_v decree_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o alexandria_n he_o be_v not_o call_v the_o patriarch_n as_o you_o call_v he_o have_v power_n over_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pentapolis_n we_o confess_v the_o word_n metropolitan_a be_v use_v in_o this_o canon_n but_o not_o any_o of_o the_o other_o abovementioned_a the_o like_a whereunto_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v touch_v the_o seven_o canon_n by_o you_o cite_v and_o yet_o we_o lay_v no_o great_a stress_n on_o this_o that_o these_o word_n be_v not_o there_o find_v but_o hint_n only_o thus_o much_o to_o you_o by_o the_o way_n who_o take_v advantage_n at_o we_o in_o regard_n of_o word_n though_o without_o reason_n but_o shall_v grant_v unto_o you_o that_o the_o thing_n understand_v by_o those_o word_n may_v be_v there_o find_v as_o touch_v the_o thirteen_o which_o you_o here_o quote_v that_o speak_v nothing_o at_o all_o touch_v the_o business_n but_o whole_o concern_v the_o lapse_v catechumeni_fw-la and_o whereas_o you_o cite_v the_o twenty_o five_o twenty_o six_o and_o twenty_o seven_o canon_n of_o this_o council_n you_o do_v therein_o both_o wrong_v this_o council_n and_o yourselves_o in_o father_v upon_o they_o supposititious_a canon_n there_o be_v not_o above_o twenty_o canon_n that_o be_v genuine_a indeed_o it_o be_v well_o observe_v by_o lucas_n osiander_n after_o he_o have_v recite_v in_o his_o epitome_n of_o ecclesiastical_a history_n centur._n 4._o lib._n 2._o chap._n 10._o the_o twenty_o canon_n of_o this_o council_n and_o which_o only_o he_o judge_v to_o be_v genuine_a that_o there_o be_v other_o beside_o these_o that_o be_v read_v in_o some_o supposititious_a write_n of_o the_o father_n under_o the_o name_n of_o athanasius_n and_o ambrose_n but_o he_o judge_v they_o and_o that_o right_o to_o be_v false_o ascribe_v to_o the_o synod_n of_o nice_a perhaps_o you_o judge_v we_o to_o be_v so_o little_a conversant_a in_o the_o father_n and_o council_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v have_v let_v all_o these_o thing_n pass_v for_o currant_n if_o otherwise_o we_o see_v you_o be_v so_o addict_v to_o the_o episcopal_a cause_n that_o you_o matter_n not_o so_o you_o can_v make_v it_o out_o though_o it_o be_v out_o of_o supposititious_a write_n 2._o as_o to_o the_o main_a thing_n you_o cite_v this_o council_n for_o and_o that_o which_o indeed_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v here_o insist_v on_o sc_n the_o ancient_a custom_n that_o the_o six_o canon_n speak_v of_o touch_v the_o power_n and_o dignity_n of_o the_o metropolitan_n which_o yet_o be_v not_o such_o as_o you_o imagine_v at_o the_o first_o appoint_v they_o and_o of_o which_o more_o anon_o let_v it_o be_v grant_v as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o that_o this_o council_n do_v not_o constitute_v and_o create_v those_o metropolitan_o but_o confirm_v they_o and_o what_o power_n and_o dignity_n they_o have_v before_o according_a to_o a_o ancient_a custom_n yet_o we_o say_v that_o ancient_a custom_n be_v to_o be_v limit_v in_o in_o regard_n of_o its_o antiquity_n and_o 1._o it_o can_v refer_v so_o high_a as_o to_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n there_o be_v then_o no_o metropolitan_a bishop_n they_o be_v never_o at_o all_o mention_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n either_o by_o that_o name_n or_o the_o thing_n thereby_o signify_v 2._o neither_o can_v it_o refer_v to_o the_o age_n next_o unto_o the_o apostle_n because_o in_o that_o age_n and_o a_o good_a while_n after_o a_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v all_o one_o we_o shall_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o this_o first_o mention_v a_o very_a observable_a passage_n in_o a_o letter_n write_v by_o the_o lord_n digby_n unto_o sir_n kenelmne_v digby_n and_o which_o for_o the_o observableness_n of_o it_o be_v cite_v by_o other_o 62._o and_o with_o good_a reason_n consider_v how_o much_o he_o be_v for_o that_o kind_n of_o episcopacy_n that_o you_o contend_v for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o he_o that_o will_v reduce_v the_o church_n now_o to_o the_o form_n of_o government_n in_o the_o most_o primitive_a time_n shall_v not_o take_v in_o my_o opinion_n the_o best_a nor_o wise_a course_n i_o be_o sure_a not_o the_o safe_a for_o he_o will_v be_v find_v peck_v towards_o the_o presbytery_n of_o scotland_n which_o for_o my_o part_n i_o believe_v in_o point_n of_o government_n have_v a_o great_a resemblance_n then_o either_o you_o or_o we_o to_o the_o first_o age_n of_o christ_n church_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v never_o a_o whit_n the_o better_a for_o it_o since_o it_o be_v a_o form_n not_o choose_v for_o the_o best_a but_o impose_v by_o adversity_n under_o oppression_n which_o in_o the_o beginning_n force_v the_o church_n from_o what_o it_o wish_v to_o what_o it_o may_v not_o suffer_v the_o dignity_n and_o state_n ecclesiastical_a which_o right_o belong_v unto_o it_o and_o which_o soon_o afterward_o upon_o the_o least_o lucida_fw-la interuâlla_fw-la shine_v forth_o so_o glorious_o in_o the_o happy_a as_o well_o as_o more_o monarchical_a condition_n of_o episcopacy_n etc._n etc._n you_o see_v this_o gentleman_n who_o be_v firm_a for_o monarchical_a episcopacy_n do_v yet_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o most_o primitive_a time_n and_o first_o age_n of_o the_o church_n that_o kind_n of_o episcopacy_n have_v no_o foot_n and_o that_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o it_o be_v in_o scotland_n and_o 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of_o polycarpe_n we_o find_v in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o philippian_n but_o two_o order_n of_o ministry_n mention_v sc_n bishop_n and_o deacon_n according_a to_o what_o paul_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o church_n have_v signify_v more_o ancient_o hear_v his_o own_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._n e._n therefore_o you_o ought_v to_o abstain_v from_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n as_o unto_o god_n and_o christ_n and_o therefore_o this_o ancient_a custom_n mention_v in_o this_o six_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o you_o quote_v must_v hereupon_o be_v limit_v and_o restrain_v in_o regard_n of_o ancientness_n and_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v so_o as_o to_o refer_v to_o the_o whole_a space_n of_o 327._o year_n after_o christ_n or_o thereabouts_o before_o its_o assemble_v although_o the_o custom_n of_o appoint_v metropolitan_n before_o may_v be_v call_v ancient_a comparative_o with_o those_o custom_n 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the_o work_n and_o it_o be_v only_o in_o one_o way_n which_o be_v brief_o this_o sc_n what_o exposition_n the_o father_n unanimous_o give_v of_o any_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o must_v be_v receive_v and_o what_o exposiition_n can_v be_v back_v with_o their_o concurrent_a testimony_n that_o be_v to_o be_v reject_v and_o this_o aught_o to_o satisfy_v but_o unto_o this_o one_o answer_n do_v serve_v the_o turn_n sc_n that_o your_o principle_n be_v unsound_a and_o very_a corrupt_a and_o which_o have_v be_v already_o in_o our_o answer_n to_o this_o section_n so_o full_o evidence_v that_o it_o be_v needless_a here_o to_o add_v any_o more_o and_o this_o for_o answer_v to_o what_o you_o present_v in_o this_o section_n may_v be_v sufficient_a the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n vii_o but_o now_o as_o to_o you_o and_o what_o follow_v say_v you_o and_o so_o go_v on_o mintain_v your_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o extent_n of_o it_o be_v as_o you_o pretend_v back_v by_o the_o 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against_o drunkenness_n swear_v profanation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n etc._n etc._n enjoin_v punishment_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n only_o have_v utter_o take_v off_o all_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o our_o advice_n to_o you_o to_o complain_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n of_o such_o lawless_a person_n be_v not_o amiss_o because_o that_o sword_n be_v sharp_a and_o long_o than_o any_o you_o have_v or_o can_v pretend_v to_o the_o animadversion_n of_o the_o class_n upon_o it_o 1._o if_o we_o go_v on_o to_o maintain_v our_o power_n of_o censure_v the_o scandalous_a according_a to_o what_o as_o we_o tell_v you_o both_o god_n and_o the_o civil_a authority_n have_v entrust_v we_o with_o it_o concern_v you_o the_o more_o to_o have_v make_v good_a what_o you_o undertake_v but_o herein_o you_o have_v fall_v short_a as_o we_o have_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o what_o we_o have_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o the_o four_o section_n of_o this_o paper_n whereby_o also_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o we_o be_v back_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o that_o this_o authority_n be_v not_o take_v off_o by_o any_o subsequent_a act_n of_o parliament_n that_o you_o have_v instance_a in_o and_o that_o therefore_o our_o church_n government_n and_o censure_n be_v still_o of_o force_n and_o that_o it_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o voluntariness_n of_o the_o member_n of_o our_o several_a congregation_n be_v subject_n thereunto_o but_o upon_o the_o parliament_n appoint_v they_o to_o this_o subjection_n that_o any_o person_n within_o the_o bound_n of_o this_o association_n be_v subject_a to_o this_o government_n 2._o we_o do_v ready_o grant_v the_o civil_a sword_n do_v and_o can_v reach_v as_o those_o offender_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n that_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n censure_n so_o also_o those_o that_o be_v unwilling_a to_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o but_o your_o argument_n be_v very_o inconsequent_a when_o you_o will_v infer_v that_o the_o act_n or_o act_n of_o parliament_n inflict_v a_o civil_a punishment_n whether_o corporal_a or_o pecuniary_a upon_o all_o lawless_a person_n whether_o such_o as_o contemn_v god_n law_n or_o man_n and_o not_o a_o spiritual_a therefore_o such_o offender_n be_v not_o censurable_a by_o we_o for_o except_v there_o have_v be_v some_o late_a act_n that_o have_v repeal_v the_o ordinance_n of_o 1648_o for_o church_n government_n that_o appoint_v the_o inflict_a of_o spiritual_a censure_n such_o offender_n as_o be_v just_o censurable_a by_o that_o ordinance_n be_v still_o censurable_a by_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o yet_o see_v how_o it_o be_v our_o mistake_n to_o think_v that_o notwithstanding_o the_o punishment_n inflict_v upon_o the_o offendor_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n we_o may_v for_o the_o same_o offence_n proceed_v to_o execute_v church_n censure_n also_o or_o that_o it_o be_v either_o sound_a divinity_n or_o good_a law_n that_o a_o man_n may_v not_o be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o offence_n which_o yet_o be_v the_o argument_n whereby_o you_o will_v prove_v we_o therein_o for_o to_o mistake_v indeed_o we_o hold_v it_o not_o just_a that_o one_o and_o the_o same_o person_n shall_v be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o offence_n with_o one_o and_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o punishment_n but_o that_o such_o offender_n as_o be_v punishable_a by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n with_o civil_a punishment_n may_v be_v proceed_v against_o by_o the_o church_n with_o church_n censure_n be_v manifest_a 1._o from_o your_o censure_n own_o concession_n you_o have_v grant_v in_o your_o first_o paper_n that_o such_o as_o be_v scandalous_a and_o wicked_a in_o their_o life_n be_v to_o be_v admonish_v both_o public_o and_o private_o and_o that_o if_o notwithstanding_o they_o continue_v still_o in_o their_o scandalous_a course_n and_o will_v not_o reform_v the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v such_o and_o in_o your_o second_o paper_n it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o argument_n you_o urge_v to_o bring_v we_o to_o a_o compliance_n with_o your_o proposal_n there_o that_o by_o that_o mean_v the_o life_n and_o manner_n of_o dissolute_a person_n may_v with_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o exhortation_n be_v reclaim_v or_o by_o due_a censure_n be_v correct_v and_o amend_v but_o now_o you_o eat_v your_o own_o word_n and_o flat_o contradict_v what_o there_o you_o have_v grant_v for_o now_o you_o say_v such_o offender_n as_o be_v punishable_a by_o the_o civil_a magisttate_n according_a to_o the_o act_n that_o inflict_v civil_a punishment_n be_v not_o censurable_a at_o all_o by_o the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n nor_o by_o we_o since_o we_o have_v refuse_v to_o comply_v with_o your_o proposal_n for_o then_o a_o man_n may_v come_v to_o be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o offence_n 2._o from_o the_o justice_n and_o equity_n that_o be_v in_o so_o do_v consider_v the_o different_a nature_n of_o civil_a punishment_n and_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n the_o one_o be_v only_o corporal_a or_o respect_v the_o outward_a man_n the_o other_o be_v spiritual_a and_o respect_v the_o soul_n and_o therefore_o see_v man_n consist_v not_o only_o of_o body_n but_o have_v soul_n also_o such_o as_o be_v offender_n against_o the_o law_n both_o of_o god_n and_o man_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v punish_v as_o with_o civil_a punishment_n appoint_v by_o the_o ciul_a magistrate_n to_o be_v inflict_v on_o the_o outward_a man_n so_o also_o with_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n appoint_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v inflict_v on_o the_o soul_n in_o case_n of_o impenitency_n 3._o this_o also_o further_o appear_v by_o the_o necessity_n and_o usefullness_n that_o there_o may_v be_v of_o this_o double_a punishment_n the_o magistrate_n may_v have_v punish_v the_o offendor_n in_o his_o purse_n or_o body_n and_o yet_o he_o continue_v in_o a_o insensible_a and_o impenitent_a state_n in_o which_o respect_n