christ_n according_a to_o bellarmine_n computation_n eccles_n the_o church_n say_v the_o marquesse_n hold_v then_o mingle_v of_o water_n 99_o with_o wine_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o a_o thing_n necessary_a and_o of_o divine_a and_o apostolical_a tradition_n cyprian_a indeed_o in_o the_o place_n all_o eadge_v viz._n epist_n 63._o do_v answ_n speak_v of_o the_o mixture_n of_o wine_n and_o water_n in_o the_o eucharist_n as_o a_o thing_n necessary_a to_o be_v obser_v but_o 1._o austin_n have_v teach_v we_o that_o it_o be_v no_o wrong_n to_o cyprian_a to_o make_v a_o difference_n betwixt_o his_o write_n 74._o and_o the_o scripture_n 2._o cyprian_n himself_o though_o speak_v of_o another_o occasion_n do_v show_v we_o what_o we_o be_v here_o to_o answer_v whence_o say_v he_o be_v this_o tradition_n do_v it_o come_v either_o from_o christ_n in_o the_o gospel_n or_o from_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o write_n for_o god_n do_v require_v we_o to_o do_v those_o thing_n that_o be_v write_v say_v to_o joshua_n the_o book_n of_o the_o law_n shall_v not_o depart_v out_o of_o thy_o mouth_n etc._n etc._n jos_n 1._o 8._o and_o when_o christ_n send_v his_o apostle_n he_o bid_v they_o baptize_v all_o nation_n and_o teach_v they_o to_o observe_v whatsoever_o he_o command_v mat._n 28._o 19_o 20._o if_o therefore_o it_o be_v command_v in_o the_o gospel_n or_o contain_v either_o in_o the_o epistle_n or_o in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n then_o let_v it_o be_v observe_v as_o a_o divine_a and_o holy_a tradition_n now_o in_o the_o epistle_n which_o the_o marquesse_n allege_v cyprian_n prove_v against_o the_o aquarian_o such_o as_o do_v use_v only_o water_n in_o the_o eucharist_n that_o christ_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o sacrament_n use_v wine_n this_o he_o prove_v by_o that_o which_o be_v write_v mat._n 26._o 29._o i_o will_v not_o drink_v henceforth_o of_o this_o fruit_n of_o the_o vine_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o christ_n also_o do_v use_v water_n he_o do_v not_o prove_v neither_o can_v it_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n yet_o our_o divine_n do_v grant_v that_o probable_o christ_n may_v mix_v wine_n and_o water_n in_o the_o sacramental_a cup_n not_o for_o any_o mystical_a signification_n nor_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o necessary_a observation_n but_o only_o as_o in_o those_o hot_a country_n they_o use_v common_o to_o drink_v wine_n mix_v with_o water_n exam._n to_o abate_v the_o strength_n of_o it_o neither_o do_v they_o therefore_o condemn_v they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o use_v this_o mixture_n but_o for_o use_v it_o so_o as_o to_o make_v it_o a_o sin_n not_o to_o use_v it_o bellarmine_n caterum_fw-la indeed_o say_v that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o certain_a that_o christ_n do_v mix_v water_n with_o wine_n when_o he_o institute_v the_o sacrament_n then_o that_o he_o do_v use_v any_o wine_n at_o all_o for_o that_o purpose_n for_o he_o say_v neither_o the_o evangelist_n nor_o paul_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o wine_n when_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o cup_n in_o the_o eucharist_n as_o for_o the_o word_n i_o will_v not_o drink_v henceforth_o of_o the_o fruit_n of_o the_o vine_n etc._n etc._n he_o say_v s._n luke_n do_v plain_o show_v they_o be_v speak_v not_o of_o the_o cup_n in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o that_o cup_n which_o be_v give_v after_o the_o eat_n of_o the_o pascal_n lamb._n but_o this_o contradit_v cyprian_a in_o that_o very_a epistle_n which_o be_v allege_v against_o we_o for_o their_o cite_n these_o word_n he_o infer_v from_o they_o as_o a_o thing_n 63._o clear_a and_o evident_a that_o it_o be_v wine_n which_o christ_n call_v his_o blood_n and_o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o right_o celebrate_v if_o wine_n be_v want_v yea_o maldonate_fw-it cite_v many_o of_o the_o ancient_a writer_n beside_o cyprian_a who_o understand_v those_o word_n of_o the_o cup_n in_o the_o 29._o eucharist_n and_o whereas_o bellarmine_n do_v urge_v luke_n 22._o 17_o 18_o to_o prove_v that_o those_o word_n i_o will_v not_o henceforth_o drink_v etc._n etc._n have_v reference_n to_o another_o cup_n and_o not_o that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n austin_n as_o himself_o confess_v take_v those_o word_n in_o luke_n to_o rursus_fw-la be_v relate_v by_o anticipation_n and_o not_o in_o their_o due_a order_n which_o matthew_n and_o mark_n observe_v and_o though_o he_o say_v that_o austin_n do_v not_o diligent_o consider_v the_o place_n yet_o jansenius_n write_v profess_o cap._n upon_o it_o approve_v augustine_n opinion_n rather_o than_o hierom_n who_o conceive_v two_o several_a cup_n to_o be_v speak_v of_o in_o s._n luke_n gospel_n neither_o do_v bellarmine_n answer_v his_o argument_n which_o he_o do_v allege_v for_o it_o but_o however_o he_o show_v that_o the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v relate_v by_o s._n matthew_n and_o s._n mark_v can_v be_v refer_v to_o any_o other_o cup_n than_o that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n of_o which_o they_o make_v mention_v immediate_o before_o and_o of_o none_o other_o 3._o cyprian_n in_o this_o very_a point_n about_o the_o mingle_n of_o wine_n and_o water_n in_o the_o eucharist_n do_v differ_v as_o well_o from_o they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o from_o protestant_n for_o he_o make_v this_o mixture_n of_o such_o necessity_n as_o to_o hold_v it_o no_o sacrament_n if_o there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o cup_n both_o wine_n and_o water_n otherwise_o quinto_fw-la if_o there_o be_v either_o only_a water_n or_o only_a wine_n he_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v none_o of_o christ_n cup_n none_o of_o his_o sacrament_n but_o bellarmine_n tax_v chemnitius_n for_o charge_v they_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o this_o opinion_n and_o say_v that_o very_o few_o of_o they_o do_v hold_v it_o why_o then_o do_v they_o press_v we_o with_o the_o testimony_n of_o cyprian_a they_o themselves_o dissent_v from_o he_o as_o well_o as_o we_o for_o it_o be_v over_o vain_a and_o frivolous_a that_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o though_o cyprian_a speak_v in_o that_o manner_n yet_o perhaps_o he_o mean_v otherwise_o but_o to_o proceed_v the_o marquesse_n say_v that_o ancient_o the_o 99_o church_n hold_v exorcism_n exsufflation_n and_o renuntiation_n which_o be_v make_v in_o baptism_n for_o sacred_a ceremony_n and_o of_o apostolical_a tradition_n and_o a_o little_a after_o the_o church_n in_o the_o ceremony_n of_o baptism_n use_v then_o oil_n salt_n wax-light_n exorcism_n the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n the_o word_n ephata_n and_o other_o thing_n that_o accompany_v it_o etc._n etc._n but_o 1._o what_o authority_n be_v there_o from_o god_n word_n for_o all_o or_o any_o of_o these_o ceremony_n let_v they_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o answ_n scripture_n and_o then_o we_o will_v acknowledge_v they_o for_o divine_a and_o holy_a tradition_n but_o otherwise_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v it_o and_o for_o this_o we_o have_v cyprian_n to_o who_o other_o ancient_a writer_n may_v be_v add_v if_o need_n be_v to_o speak_v for_o we_o as_o i_o have_v show_v a_o little_a 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neither_o be_v of_o the_o offence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n but_o elsewhere_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o toledo_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v but_o one_o dip_v use_v in_o baptism_n so_o also_o bellarmine_n among_o the_o ceremony_n of_o baptism_n ancient_o use_v mention_v 27._o the_o taste_n of_o milk_n and_o honey_n or_o wine_n which_o ceremony_n yet_o he_o say_v now_o be_v not_o in_o use_n thus_o their_o apostolical_a tradition_n as_o they_o call_v they_o they_o themselves_o can_v reject_v when_o they_o please_v the_o church_n hold_v then_o say_v the_o marquesse_n baptism_n for_o infant_n of_o absolute_a necessity_n and_o for_o this_o cause_n thou_o permit_v layman_n 99_o to_o baptise_v in_o danger_n of_o death_n the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n be_v not_o here_o simple_o answ_n urge_v but_o
light_n be_v gather_v into_o the_o body_n of_o the_o sun_n this_o body_n so_o glorious_a and_o comfortable_a be_v but_o the_o same_o light_n which_o be_v before_o we_o can_v make_v it_o another_o though_o it_o be_v otherwise_o and_o therefore_o though_o the_o church_n and_o the_o scripture_n like_o the_o light_n that_o be_v concomitant_a and_o precedent_a to_o the_o sun_n be_v distinct_a in_o term_n yet_o they_o be_v but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o no_o man_n can_v see_v the_o sun_n but_o by_o its_o own_o light_n shut_v your_o eye_n from_o this_o light_n and_o you_o can_v behold_v the_o body_n of_o the_o sun_n shut_v your_o eye_n against_o one_o and_o you_o be_v blind_a in_o both_o he_o never_o have_v god_n to_o be_v his_o father_n who_o have_v not_o the_o church_n to_o be_v his_o mother_n if_o you_o admit_v sillogisme_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la you_o will_v meet_v with_o many_o paralogisme_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la cry_v down_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o pull_v out_o the_o scripture_n efficacy_n give_v but_o the_o church_n the_o lie_n now_o and_o then_o and_o you_o shall_v have_v enough_o will_v tell_v you_o the_o scripture_n be_v false_a here_o and_o there_o they_o who_o have_v set_v so_o little_a by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n have_v set_v by_o half_a the_o scripture_n and_o will_v at_o last_o throw_v all_o away_o wherefore_o in_o a_o word_n as_o to_o deny_v any_o part_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o open_v a_o vein_n so_o to_o question_v any_o thing_n which_o the_o church_n propose_v be_v to_o tear_v the_o seamelesse_a coat_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o pierce_v his_o body_n king_n my_o lord_n i_o see_v you_o be_v better_o provide_v with_o argument_n than_o i_o be_o with_o memory_n to_o run_v through_o the_o series_n of_o your_o discourse_n satisfy_v i_o but_o in_o one_o thing_n and_o i_o shall_v soon_o yield_v to_o all_o that_o you_o have_v say_v and_o that_o be_v concern_v this_o catholic_n church_n you_o talk_v of_o i_o know_v the_o creed_n tell_v we_o that_o we_o must_v believe_v it_o and_o christ_n tell_v we_o that_o we_o must_v hear_v it_o but_o neither_o tell_v we_o that_o that_o be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n marq._n gracious_a sir_n the_o creed_n tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o saint_n paul_n tell_v we_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n that_o their_o faith_n be_v spread_v abroad_o through_o the_o whole_a world_n king_n that_o be_v the_o faith_n which_o the_o roman_n then_o believe_v which_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o roman_a faith_n which_o be_v now_o believe_v marq._n the_o roman_a faith_n then_o and_o now_o be_v the_o same_o king_n i_o deny_v that_o my_o lord_n marq._n when_o do_v they_o alter_v their_o faith_n king_n that_o require_v a_o library_n neither_o be_v it_o requisite_a that_o i_o tell_v you_o the_o time_n when_o if_o the_o envious_a man_n sow_n his_o tare_n whilst_o the_o husbandman_n be_v asleep_a and_o afterward_o he_o awake_v and_o see_v the_o tare_n be_v they_o not_o tare_n because_o the_o husbandman_n know_v not_o when_o they_o be_v sow_v marq._n and_o if_o it_o please_v your_o majesty_n in_o a_o thing_n that_o be_v so_o apparent_a your_o similitude_n hold_v good_a but_o the_o difference_n between_o we_o and_o the_o protestant_n be_v not_o so_o without_o dispute_n as_o that_o it_o be_v yet_o grant_v by_o the_o major_a part_n of_o christian_n that_o they_o be_v error_n which_o we_o believe_v contrary_a to_o your_o tenant_n and_o therefore_o the_o similitude_n hold_v not_o but_o i_o shall_v humble_o entreat_v your_o majesty_n to_o consider_v the_o proof_n which_o the_o learned_a cardinal_n peroone_a have_v make_v concern_v this_o particular_a in_o his_o answer_n to_o your_o royal_a father_n his_o apology_n to_o all_o christian_a prince_n where_o he_o prove_v how_o that_o all_o the_o tenant_n which_o be_v in_o controversy_n now_o between_o you_o and_o we_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n within_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n wherefore_o i_o think_v it_o will_v be_v no_o injury_n to_o reason_n to_o require_v belief_n that_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o long_o continue_v in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o universal_o receive_v and_o no_o time_n can_v be_v set_v down_o when_o those_o tenant_n or_o ceremony_n do_v arise_v must_v needs_o be_v catholic_n for_o time_n and_o place_n and_o apostolical_a for_o institution_n though_o we_o have_v no_o warrant_n from_o the_o scripture_n to_o believe_v they_o to_o be_v such_o for_o the_o apostle_n saint_n paul_n command_v timothy_n to_o keep_v fast_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o have_v deliver_v unto_o he_o as_o well_o by_o word_n as_o by_o writ_n wherefore_o if_o we_o will_v believe_v no_o tradition_n we_o may_v come_v at_o last_o to_o believe_v no_o write_n king_n that_o be_v your_o own_o fault_n wherefore_o i_o blame_v your_o church_n for_o the_o way_n to_o make_v the_o scripture_n not_o believe_v be_v to_o add_v unto_o they_o new_a invention_n and_o say_v they_o be_v scripture_n marq._n if_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n have_v so_o mean_a esteem_n then_o as_o among_o some_o she_o have_v now_o certain_o the_o former_a book_n receive_v into_o her_o canon_n will_v have_v be_v much_o prejudice_v by_o the_o admittance_n of_o the_o latter_a wherefore_o if_o the_o church_n be_v questionable_a than_o all_o be_v bring_v in_o question_n king_n my_o lord_n you_o have_v not_o satisfy_v i_o where_o this_o church_n be_v and_o as_o concern_v the_o cardinal_n book_n i_o have_v see_v it_o and_o have_v read_v a_o part_n of_o it_o but_o do_v not_o remember_v neither_o do_v i_o believe_v that_o he_o have_v prove_v that_o which_o you_o say_v marq._n it_o may_v be_v the_o proof_n be_v in_o that_o part_n of_o the_o book_n which_o your_o majesty_n do_v not_o read_v and_o as_o for_o my_o prove_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v this_o church_n by_o which_o we_o shall_v be_v all_o guide_v i_o thus_o shall_v do_v my_o endeavour_n that_o church_n who_o doctrine_n be_v most_o catholic_n and_o universal_a must_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v such_o ergo._fw-la king_n my_o lord_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o most_o universal_a the_o grecian_a church_n be_v far_o more_o spread_v and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o it_o be_v no_o argument_n for_o the_o church_n of_o the_o mahumetanes_n be_v large_a than_o both_o marq._n first_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n either_o for_o a_o english_a man_n or_o a_o protestant_n but_o for_o a_o grecian_a or_o mahumetane_a not_o for_o a_o english_a man_n because_o he_o receive_v his_o conversion_n from_o rome_n and_o therefore_o he_o in_o reason_n shall_v not_o look_v beyond_o rome_n or_o the_o doctrine_n that_o rome_n practise_v then_o when_o they_o convert_v england_n nor_o for_o a_o protestant_n because_o he_o be_v as_o far_o distant_a from_o the_o grecian_a church_n in_o matter_n of_o opinion_n as_o from_o the_o roman_a and_o therefore_o he_o 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among_o the_o native_n neither_o of_o spain_n or_o italy_n show_v i_o but_o one_o protestant_a country_n in_o the_o world_n who_o ever_o desert_v the_o roman_a faith_n but_o they_o do_v it_o by_o rebellion_n except_o england_n and_o there_o the_o king_n and_o the_o bishop_n be_v the_o principal_a reformer_n i_o pray_v god_n they_o do_v not_o both_o suffer_v for_o it_o show_v i_o but_o one_o reform_a church_n that_o be_v of_o the_o opinion_n of_o another_o ask_v a_o english_a protestant_n where_o be_v your_o religion_n before_o luther_n and_o he_o will_v tell_v you_o of_o hus_n and_o jerom_n of_o prague_n search_v for_o their_o tenant_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v they_o as_o far_o different_a from_o the_o english_a protestant_n as_o they_o be_v from_o one_o another_o run_v to_o the_o waldenses_n for_o
he_o be_v above_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o minutius_n and_o gregory_n who_o be_v about_o as_o much_o after_o paulinus_n be_v against_o the_o worship_v of_o any_o thing_n make_v with_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o word_n before_o cite_v final_o say_v the_o marquesse_n the_o church_n then_o hold_v that_o to_o the_o catholic_n church_n only_a belong_v the_o keep_n of_o the_o apostolical_a tradition_n 101._o the_o authority_n of_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o decision_n of_o controversy_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o out_o of_o the_o succession_n of_o her_o communion_n of_o her_o doctrine_n and_o her_o ministry_n there_o neither_o be_v church_n nor_o salvation_n 1._o for_o apostolical_a tradition_n enough_o have_v be_v say_v before_o 2._o and_o so_o also_o of_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o answ_n decision_n of_o controversy_n of_o faith_n 3._o i_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o object_v against_o we_o that_o out_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n there_o be_v no_o church_n for_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v the_o church_n universal_a and_o so_o comprehend_v all_o particular_a church_n as_o part_n and_o member_n of_o it_o who_o can_v doubt_v that_o there_o be_v no_o church_n out_o of_o the_o church_n catholic_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o once_o indeed_o be_v a_o sound_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o catholic_n church_n it_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v except_o a_o part_n can_v be_v the_o whole_a in_o that_o which_o follow_v page_n 101._o etc._n etc._n there_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o same_o matter_n as_o before_o only_o the_o form_n be_v somewhat_o alter_v and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o i_o shall_v trouble_v either_o myself_o or_o the_o reader_n any_o further_a about_o it_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v one_o or_o two_o animadversion_n 1._o whereas_o it_o be_v object_v page_n 105._o etc._n etc._n that_o luther_n after_o his_o desert_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v yet_o hold_v some_o point_n of_o popery_n and_o so_o also_o husse_v and_o wickliff_n and_o other_o that_o otherwise_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o the_o error_n and_o corruption_n of_o that_o church_n i_o answer_v that_o as_o rome_n be_v not_o build_v at_o once_o so_o neither_o be_v it_o demolish_v at_o once_o but_o by_o degree_n it_o be_v no_o marvel_n therefore_o if_o those_o worthy_a man_n do_v at_o least_o for_o a_o while_n retain_v some_o romish_a opinion_n and_o practice_n after_o that_o in_o many_o thing_n they_o have_v discover_v the_o truth_n and_o stand_v up_o in_o defence_n of_o it_o 2._o whereas_o it_o be_v pretend_v page_n 106._o that_o before_o berengarius_fw-la who_o be_v above_o 1000_o year_n after_o christ_n none_o do_v oppose_v that_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o the_o romanist_n maintain_v beside_o that_o i_o have_v sufficient_o confute_v this_o before_o the_o marquesse_n may_v have_v see_v from_o bellarmine_n himself_o that_o there_o be_v eccles_n some_o who_o above_o 200._o year_n before_o berengarius_fw-la do_v oppose_v that_o doctrine_n which_o in_o this_o particular_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o do_v hold_v namely_o bertram_n a_o presbyter_n who_o be_v about_o 800._o year_n after_o christ_n and_o say_v bellarmine_n be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o that_o do_v call_v in_o question_n that_o doctrine_n but_o bellarmine_n do_v too_o much_o mince_v the_o matter_n for_o bertram_n do_v more_o than_o call_v in_o question_n that_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o the_o romanist_n do_v hold_v he_o do_v plain_o assert_v that_o which_o protestant_n maintain_v viz._n that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v still_o remain_v after_o consecration_n as_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o hospinian_o first_o part_n of_o the_o sacramentary_a history_n and_o so_o in_o other_o that_o cite_v that_o author_n for_o the_o book_n itself_o i_o confess_v i_o have_v not_o see_v that_o i_o do_v remember_v but_o that_o be_v here_o worthy_a to_o be_v observe_v which_o the_o romish_a censurer_n of_o book_n say_v speak_v of_o this_o book_n of_o bertram_n about_o the_o sacrament_n although_o say_v 12._o they_o we_o do_v not_o much_o value_n this_o book_n nor_o shall_v great_o ear_n if_o it_o be_v no_o where_o to_o be_v find_v yet_o see_v it_o have_v be_v often_o print_v and_o read_v of_o very_a many_o etc._n etc._n and_o we_o sufer_v very_o many_o error_n in_o other_o ancient_a catholic_n we_o extenuate_v they_o we_o excuse_v they_o and_o find_v out_o some_o device_n we_o often_o deny_v they_o and_o fain_o some_o good_a sense_n of_o they_o when_o they_o be_v oppose_v in_o disputation_n or_o conflict_n with_o the_o adversary_n we_o see_v not_o why_o bertram_n may_v not_o deserve_v the_o same_o favour_n and_o diligent_a recognition_n lest_o heretic_n prate_v against_o we_o and_o say_v that_o we_o burn_v antiquity_n and_o prohibit_v it_o when_o it_o make_v for_o they_o some_o thing_n therefore_o in_o bertram_n 17._o book_n they_o will_v have_v to_o be_v quite_o leave_v out_o and_o some_o thing_n to_o be_v quite_o alter_v as_o namely_o for_o visible_o to_o be_v read_v invisible_o such_o device_n have_v they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o corrupt_v ancient_a writer_n when_o they_o make_v against_o they_o and_o then_o they_o pretend_v that_o all_o be_v for_o they_o thus_o the_o marquesse_n in_o the_o conclusion_n of_o his_o reply_n page_n 230._o pretend_v that_o they_o have_v the_o prescription_n of_o 1600._o year_n possession_n and_o continuance_n of_o their_o church_n doctrine_n and_o evidence_n out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o father_n witness_v to_o that_o evidence_n and_o the_o decree_n of_o counsel_n and_o protestant_n own_v acknowlegdement_n but_o what_o ground_n there_o be_v for_o this_o pretence_n let_v the_o reader_n judge_v by_o compare_v and_o consider_v what_o be_v say_v on_o both_o side_n and_o so_o i_o also_o shall_v leave_v the_o success_n of_o my_o labour_n unto_o god_n in_o who_o hand_n be_v the_o heart_n of_o all_o a_o addition_n of_o some_o few_o thing_n omit_v in_o the_o foregoing_a rejoinder_n the_o marquesse_n pag._n 69._o cit_v basil_n orat_fw-la in_o 40_o it_o be_v misprint_v 44_o mart._n as_o affirm_v that_o we_o may_v pray_v unto_o the_o saint_n depart_v but_o in_o that_o oration_n basil_n affirm_v no_o such_o thing_n he_o show_v indeed_o his_o approbation_n of_o pray_v not_o martyr_n unto_o the_o martyr_n but_o which_o be_v quite_o another_o thing_n to_o god_n at_o the_o monument_n of_o the_o martyr_n the_o most_o learned_a b._n usher_n observe_v that_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o martyr_n indeed_o be_v from_o the_o very_a beginning_n have_v in_o great_a reverence_n and_o at_o their_o memorial_n and_o martyria_fw-la 434._o that_o be_v to_o say_v at_o the_o place_n wherein_o their_o body_n be_v lay_v which_o be_v the_o church_n whereunto_o the_o christian_n do_v in_o those_o time_n usual_o resort_v prayer_n be_v ordinary_o offer_v up_o unto_o god_n for_o who_o cause_n they_o lay_v down_o their_o life_n but_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n that_o they_o then_o pray_v to_o the_o martyr_n though_o that_o error_n may_v take_v occasion_n afterward_o to_o creep_v in_o by_o this_o mean_n the_o marquesse_n tax_v calvin_n for_o hold_v that_o christ_n soul_n be_v subject_a to_o ignorance_n to_o what_o i_o have_v already_o say_v in_o answer_n to_o this_o charge_n i_o add_v that_o in_o this_o particular_a fulgentius_n be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o calvin_n for_o confute_v those_o that_o hold_v 1._o christ_n to_o have_v no_o humane_a soul_n he_o say_v thus_o if_o we_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n in_o christ_n want_v a_o soul_n what_o be_v it_o that_o in_o christ_n be_v a_o infant_n be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v know_v good_a and_o evil_a then_o he_o cite_v isa_n 7._o 16._o expound_v it_o of_o christ_n and_o add_v therefore_o the_o humane_a soul_n which_o be_v natural_o make_v capable_a of_o reason_n in_o christ_n be_v a_o infant_n be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v know_v good_a and_o evil_a which_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o christ_n be_v a_o child_n be_v relate_v to_o have_v increase_v in_o wisdom_n etc._n etc._n to_o that_o also_o that_o have_v be_v say_v before_o concern_v calvin_n death_n let_v this_o be_v add_v how_o far_o calvin_n be_v from_o despair_v at_o his_o death_n as_o the_o marquesse_n do_v object_n may_v appear_v by_o what_o he_o write_v to_o his_o dear_a friend_n farel_n when_o he_o look_v for_o death_n every_o moment_n i_o hardly_o breath_n say_v he_o and_o expect_v continual_o 344._o that_o breath_n shall_v fail_v i_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o i_o live_v and_o die_v to_o christ_n who_o to_o those_o that_o be_v he_o be_v both_o
conversion_n so_o as_o to_o convert_v mere_a infidel_n yet_o in_o the_o other_o kind_n viz._n in_o convert_v misbeliever_n they_o have_v do_v much_o this_o the_o marquesse_n pag._n 44._o be_v please_v to_o call_v perversion_n rather_o than_o conversion_n but_o that_o must_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o doctrine_n hold_v by_o protestant_n as_o for_o those_o conversion_n wrought_v in_o the_o indies_n by_o the_o romanist_n we_o may_v well_o conceive_v that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o word_n preach_v by_o the_o jesuit_n as_o the_o sword_n brandish_v by_o the_o spaniard_n that_o do_v work_v they_o 38._o franciscus_n de_fw-fr victoria_n a_o learned_a writer_n among_o the_o papist_n write_v of_o the_o indian_n say_v he_o do_v not_o see_v that_o the_o christian_a faith_n be_v so_o propound_v and_o declare_v to_o they_o as_o that_o under_o the_o guilt_n of_o a_o new_a sin_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o embrace_v it_o he_o hear_v he_o say_v of_o no_o miracle_n and_o sign_n that_o be_v wrought_v nor_o of_o very_o good_a example_n of_o life_n that_o be_v give_v but_o on_o the_o contrary_a of_o many_o scandalous_a act_n and_o many_o impiety_n whereupon_o he_o conceive_v that_o christian_a religion_n be_v not_o so_o convenient_o and_o proper_o preach_v to_o that_o barbarous_a people_n as_o that_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o acquiesce_v in_o it_o though_o he_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v many_o religious_a and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a man_n who_o both_o by_o life_n and_o example_n and_o also_o by_o diligent_a preach_v do_v sufficient_o do_v their_o endeavour_n but_o that_o they_o be_v hinder_v by_o other_o who_o mind_v other_o matter_n thus_o i_o have_v as_o brief_o as_o i_o can_v go_v over_o the_o mark_n which_o the_o marquesse_n assign_v of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o that_o because_o he_o say_v that_o his_o majesty_n do_v wave_v they_o all_o whereas_o indeed_o his_o majesty_n do_v not_o whole_o wave_v they_o though_o as_o his_o occasion_n will_v not_o suffer_v he_o to_o return_v any_o answer_n at_o all_o to_o the_o marquis_n reply_n so_o neither_o will_v they_o its_o likely_a permit_v he_o to_o answer_v the_o former_a paper_n so_o full_o as_o otherwise_o he_o will_v have_v do_v whereas_o the_o marquesse_n say_v that_o his_o majesty_n be_v please_v to_o make_v recourse_n unto_o the_o scripture_n this_o be_v sure_o the_o course_n that_o all_o aught_o to_o follow_v that_o will_v discuss_v matter_n of_o religion_n they_o ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o scripture_n by_o which_o all_o such_o matter_n be_v to_o be_v try_v and_o determine_v to_o the_o law_n and_o to_o the_o testimony_n say_v the_o prophet_n isaiah_n if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o word_n it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o they_o 20._o 3._o augustine_n speak_v of_o the_o donatist_n bid_v let_v they_o show_v their_o church_n only_o by_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o the_o scripture_n profess_v that_o he_o will_v not_o have_v any_o to_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o true_a church_n because_o of_o the_o commendation_n that_o optatus_n ambrose_n and_o many_o other_o do_v give_v of_o it_o and_o again_o let_v we_o not_o hear_v say_v he_o thus_o say_v i_o thus_o say_v thou_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v thus_o say_v the_o lord_n let_v those_o thing_n be_v remove_v out_o of_o the_o way_n which_o we_o allege_v one_o against_o another_o otherwise_o then_o from_o the_o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n i_o will_v not_o have_v the_o holy_a church_n demonstrate_v by_o humane_a token_n but_o by_o divine_a oracle_n but_o say_v the_o marquesse_n what_o heretic_n that_o ever_o be_v do_v not_o do_v so_o how_o shall_v the_o great_a 52._o heretic_n in_o the_o world_n be_v confute_v or_o censure_v if_o any_o man_n may_v be_v permit_v to_o appeal_v to_o scripture_n margine_v with_o his_o own_o note_n sense_v with_o his_o own_o meaning_n and_o enliven_v with_o his_o own_o private_a spirit_n to_o what_o end_n be_v those_o mark_n so_o full_o both_o by_o the_o prophet_n the_o apostle_n and_o our_o saviour_n himself_o set_v down_o if_o we_o make_v no_o use_n of_o they_o answ_n 1._o though_o heretic_n make_v recourse_n unto_o scripture_n it_o follow_v not_o that_o therefore_o this_o be_v not_o the_o course_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v follow_v or_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v heretic_n that_o do_v it_o the_o marquesse_n himself_o do_v make_v recourse_n unto_o scripture_n in_o set_v down_o the_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o so_o also_o do_v he_o in_o handle_v sundry_a point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o papist_n and_o protestant_n this_o course_n therefore_o himself_o be_v judge_n be_v not_o to_o be_v condemn_v neither_o certain_o be_v it_o however_o heretic_n may_v abuse_v it_o though_o heretic_n will_v allege_v scripture_n in_o defence_n of_o their_o heresic_n yet_o be_v they_o nevertheless_o to_o be_v confute_v by_o scripture_n the_o sadducee_n think_v by_o scripture_n to_o overthrow_v the_o resurrection_n yet_o by_o scripture_n do_v our_o saviour_n convince_v they_o mat._n 22._o 23._o 32._o yea_o when_o the_o devil_n himself_o do_v cite_v scripture_n our_o saviour_n do_v not_o therefore_o dislike_v it_o but_o make_v use_v of_o it_o for_o the_o resist_n of_o satan_n and_o the_o repel_v of_o his_o temptation_n mat._n 4._o 6_o 7._o 2._o it_o be_v true_a none_o may_v appeal_v to_o scripture_n margine_v with_o their_o own_o note_n sense_v with_o their_o own_o meaning_n and_o enliven_v with_o their_o own_o private_a spirit_n it_o be_v to_o no_o purpose_n to_o allege_v scripture_n except_o that_o sense_n in_o which_o it_o be_v allege_v may_v be_v make_v good_a by_o scripture_n the_o jewish_a rabbin_z as_o master_n selden_n cite_v he_o say_v 〈◊〉_d well_o all_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v not_o ground_v upon_o the_o scripture_n be_v vain_a but_o what_o this_o make_v against_o his_o majesty_n make_v recourse_n unto_o the_o scripture_n or_o against_o any_o man_n take_v that_o course_n in_o dispute_n of_o this_o nature_n i_o do_v not_o see_v for_o that_o his_o majesty_n do_v so_o make_v recourse_n unto_o scripture_n the_o marquesse_n do_v 2._o not_o say_v neither_o aught_o any_o man_n to_o be_v charge_v in_o this_o kind_n except_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o he_o be_v indeed_o guilty_a 3._o it_o do_v not_o yet_o appear_v that_o the_o particular_n before_o mention_v viz._n universality_n antiquity_n visibility_n succession_n of_o pastor_n unity_n in_o doctrine_n and_o conversion_n of_o nation_n that_o these_o i_o say_v be_v set_v down_o either_o by_o our_o saviour_n or_o his_o apostle_n or_o the_o prophet_n as_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n at_o least_o so_o as_o to_o make_v any_o thing_n for_o the_o marquis_n purpose_n viz._n to_o prove_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n your_o majesty_n be_v please_v to_o urge_v the_o error_n of_o certain_a father_n 54._o to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o their_o authority_n which_o i_o conceive_v will_v have_v be_v so_o have_v they_o be_v all_o montanist_n rebaptist_n all_o anthropomorphist_n and_o all_o of_o they_o general_o guilty_a of_o the_o fault_n wherewith_o they_o be_v soveral_o charge_v in_o the_o particular_n see_v that_o when_o we_o produce_v a_o father_n we_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o produce_v a_o man_n in_o who_o mouth_n be_v never_o find_v guile_n the_o infallibility_n be_v never_o attribute_v by_o we_o otherwise_o then_o unto_o the_o church_n not_o unto_o particular_a church_n man_n as_o your_o majesty_n have_v most_o excellent_o observe_v in_o the_o fail_n of_o the_o holy_a apostle_n who_o err_v after_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o so_o ample_a manner_n but_o when_o they_o be_v all_o gather_v together_o in_o council_n and_o can_v send_v about_o their_o edict_n with_o these_o capital_a letter_n in_o the_o front_n visum_fw-la est_fw-la sipritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la act._n 15._o 28._o then_o i_o hope_v your_o majesty_n can_v say_v that_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o they_o to_o err_v so_o though_o the_o father_n may_v err_v in_o particular_n yet_o those_o particular_a error_n will_v be_v swallow_v up_o in_o a_o general_n council_n etc._n etc._n here_o the_o marquesse_n grant_v that_o the_o father_n single_o and_o several_o answ_n consider_v may_v err_v but_o not_o if_o gather_v together_o in_o a_o general_a council_n but_o first_o do_v not_o this_o invalidate_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o father_n when_o they_o be_v several_o cite_v as_o they_o be_v in_o this_o reply_n frequent_o by_o the_o marquesse_n indeed_o here_o present_o after_o he_o add_v neither_o be_v a_o particular_a defection_n in_o any_o man_n any_o exception_n against_o his_o testimony_n except_o it_o be_v in_o the_o thing_n wherein_o he_o be_v deficient_a but_o certain_o if_o a_o man_n be_v liable_a to_o