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which_o divine_v call_v a_o character_n which_o can_v be_v take_v away_o by_o deposition_n degradation_n or_o other_o mean_n whatsoever_o and_o endue_v also_o with_o jurisdiction_n and_o authority_n to_o teach_v to_o preach_v to_o govern_v the_o church_n by_o law_n precept_n censure_n etc._n etc._n protestant_n can_v pretend_v succession_n in_o either_o of_o these_o for_o beside_o that_o there_o be_v never_o protestant_a bishop_n before_o luther_n and_o that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o continuance_n of_o succession_n where_o there_o be_v no_o beginning_n to_o succeed_v they_o common_o acknowledge_v no_o character_n &_o consequent_o must_v affirm_v that_o when_o their_o pretend_a bishop_n or_o priest_n be_v deprive_v of_o jurisdiction_n or_o degrade_v they_o remain_v mere_a lie_v person_n as_o before_o their_o ordination_n fulfil_v what_o tertâ—â—â—lian_a object_n as_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n to_o day_n a_o priest_n to_o morrow_n 41._o morrow_n praeser_n çap._n 41._o a_o layman_n for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o immovable_a character_n their_o power_n of_o order_n must_v consist_v only_o in_o jurisdiction_n and_o authority_n or_o in_o a_o kind_n of_o moral_a deputation_n to_o some_o function_n which_o therefore_o may_v be_v take_v away_o by_o the_o same_o power_n by_o which_o it_o be_v give_v neither_o can_v they_o pretend_v succcession_n in_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n for_o all_o the_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n which_o they_o have_v be_v confer_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o be_v by_o the_o pope_n because_o the_o whole_a church_n collective_o do_v not_o meet_v to_o ordain_v bishop_n or_o priest_n or_o to_o give_v they_o authority_n but_o according_a to_o their_o own_o doctrine_n they_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n neither_o have_v or_o aught_o to_o have_v any_o jurisdiction_n power_n superiority_n pre-eminence_n or_o authority_n ecclesiastical_a or_o spiritual_a within_o this_o realm_n which_o they_o swear_v even_o when_o they_o be_v ordain_v 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bishop_n and_o priest_n imprint_v no_o character_n can_v only_o consist_v in_o give_v a_o power_n authority_n jurisdiction_n or_o as_o i_o say_v before_o some_o kind_n of_o deputation_n to_o exercise_v episcopal_a or_o priestly_a function_n if_o then_o the_o temporal_a magistrate_n confer_v this_o power_n etc._n etc._n he_o can_v nay_o he_o can_v choose_v but_o ordain_v and_o consecrate_v bishop_n and_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o confer_v authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n and_o your_o bishop_n as_o soon_o as_o they_o be_v design_v and_o confirm_v by_o the_o king_n must_v ipso_fw-la faclo_fw-la be_v ordain_v and_o consecrate_a by_o he_o without_o intervention_n of_o bishop_n or_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o ordination_n which_o absurdity_n you_o will_v be_v more_o unwilling_a to_o grant_v than_o well_o able_a to_o avoid_v if_o you_o will_v be_v true_a to_o your_o own_o doctrine_n the_o pope_n from_o who_o original_o you_o must_v beg_v your_o succession_n of_o bishop_n never_o receive_v nor_o will_v nor_o can_v acknowledge_v to_o
peter_n die_v bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v so_o weak_a that_o himself_o say_v only_o suadere_fw-la videtur_fw-la it_o seem_v to_o persuade_v this_o bellarmine_n say_v only_o of_o one_o reason_n beside_o which_o he_o bring_v diverse_a other_o demonstration_n neither_o be_v it_o necessary_a for_o the_o certainty_n of_o any_o truth_n that_o every_o reason_n for_o it_o be_v evident_a and_o it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o philosopher_n that_o the_o best_a method_n be_v to_o begin_v with_o probable_a argument_n and_o then_o to_o ascend_v to_o demonstration_n moreover_o in_o this_o very_a subject_n vdalricus_n velenus_n a_o lutheran_n write_v a_o book_n to_o prove_v that_o s._n peter_n be_v never_o at_o rome_n and_o to_o that_o purpose_n he_o bring_v eighteen_o reason_n which_o he_o call_v persuasion_n &_o yet_o he_o hold_v they_o for_o evident_a demonstration_n if_o then_o bellarmine_n out_o of_o his_o great_a modesty_n say_v that_o his_o first_o reason_n seem_v to_o persuade_v must_v you_o 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rome_n though_o he_o may_v have_v choose_v some_o other_o particular_a diocese_n these_o thing_n bellarmine_n deliver_v very_o clear_o but_o you_o do_v so_o involve_v his_o word_n as_o one_o will_v believe_v that_o he_o hold_v it_o for_o uncertain_a whether_o actual_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v s._n peter_n successor_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v certain_a and_o of_o divine_a institution_n that_o s._n peter_n leave_v any_o successor_n at_o all_o both_o which_o be_v plain_o against_o his_o meaning_n and_o express_v word_n 31._o your_o other_o objection_n be_v so_o old_a and_o trivial_a that_o they_o deserve_v no_o answer_n i_o say_v already_o that_o in_o time_n of_o schism_n the_o church_n have_v power_n to_o declare_v or_o elect_v a_o true_a and_o undoubted_a pope_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n god_n in_o his_o providence_n can_v govern_v his_o church_n without_o new_a definition_n of_o pope_n of_o which_o there_o be_v not_o always_o so_o precise_a necessity_n as_o that_o the_o 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gain_v by_o holy_a scripture_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v far_o from_o our_o tongue_n and_o thought_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o for_o decision_n of_o controversy_n infallibility_n settle_v in_o a_o live_a judge_n be_v incomparable_o more_o useful_a and_o fit_a then_o if_o it_o be_v conceive_v as_o inherent_a in_o some_o inanimate_a writing_n be_v there_o such_o repugnance_n betwixt_o infallibility_n in_o the_o church_n and_o existence_n of_o scripture_n that_o the_o production_n of_o the_o one_o must_v be_v the_o destruction_n of_o the_o other_o must_v the_o church_n wax_v dry_a by_o give_v to_o her_o child_n the_o milk_n of_o sacred_a writ_n no_o no._n her_o infallibility_n be_v and_o be_v derive_v from_o a_o inexhausted_a fountain_n if_o protestant_n will_v have_v the_o scripture_n alone_o for_o their_o judge_n let_v they_o first_o produce_v some_o scripture_n affirm_v that_o by_o the_o enter_v thereof_o infallibility_n go_v out_o of_o the_o church_n d._n potter_n may_v remember_v 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etc._n be_v more_o particular_o and_o minutely_o deliver_v to_o the_o jew_n then_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v do_v our_o saviour_n leave_v the_o determination_n or_o declaration_n of_o particular_n to_o his_o spouse_n the_o church_n which_o therefore_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o infallibility_n more_o than_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n d._n potter_n 24._o potter_n pag._n 24._o against_o this_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o power_n and_o infallibility_n of_o the_o synagogue_n object_n that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o infer_v that_o christian_n must_v have_v one_o sovereign_a prince_n over_o all_o because_o the_o jew_n have_v one_o chief_a judge_n but_o the_o disparity_n be_v very_o clear_a the_o synagogue_n be_v a_o type_n and_o figure_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n not_o so_o their_o civil_a government_n of_o christian_a commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n the_o church_n succeed_v to_o the_o synagogue_n but_o not_o christian_n prince_n to_o jewish_a magistrate_n and_o the_o church_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o house_n or_o 13._o or_o heb._n 13._o family_n to_o a_o 2._o a_o cant._n 2._o army_n to_o a_o 4._o a_o 1._o cor._n 10._o ephes_n 4._o body_n to_o a_o 12_o a_o matt._n 12_o kingdom_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o require_v one_o master_n one_o general_n one_o head_n one_o magistrate_n one_o spiritual_a king_n as_o our_o bless_a saviour_n with_o fiet_fw-la vnum_fw-la ovile_n 10._o ovile_n joan._n c._n 10._o join_v vnus_fw-la pastor_n one_o sheepfold_a one_o pastor_n but_o all_o distinct_a kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n be_v not_o one_o army_n family_n etc._n etc._n and_o final_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o all_o have_v recourse_n to_o one_o church_n but_o for_o temporal_a weal_n there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o all_o submit_v or_o depend_v upon_o one_o temporal_a prince_n kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n and_o therefore_o our_o samour_n have_v leave_v to_o his_o whole_a church_n as_o be_v one_o one_o law_n one_o scripture_n the_o same_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o kingdom_n have_v their_o several_a law_n disterent_fw-la government_n diversity_n of_o power_n magistracy_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o this_o objection_n return_v upon_o d._n potter_n for_o as_o in_o the_o one_o community_n of_o the_o jew_n there_o be_v one_o power_n and_o judge_n to_o end_v debate_n and_o resolve_v difficulty_n so_o in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v one_o there_o must_v be_v some_o one_o authority_n to_o decide_v all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n 24._o this_o discourse_n be_v excellent_o prove_v by_o ancient_a s._n irenaeus_n 4_o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o c._n 4_o in_o these_o word_n what_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v not_o leave_v scripture_n ought_v we_o not_o to_o have_v follow_v the_o order_n of_o tradition_n which_o they_o deliver_v to_o those_o to_o who_o they_o commit_v the_o church_n to_o which_o order_n many_o nation_n yield_v assent_v who_o believe_v in_o christ_n have_v salvation_n write_v in_o their_o heart_n by_o the_o 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and_o chief_a point_n of_o all_o other_o d._n covell_n express_o say_v doubtless_o 31._o doubtless_o in_o his_o defence_n of_o m._n hokers_n book_n art_n 4._o p._n 31._o it_o be_v a_o tolerable_a opinion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o they_o go_v no_o further_o as_o some_o of_o they_o do_v not_o he_o shall_v have_v say_v as_o none_o of_o they_o do_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v holy_a and_o divine_a in_o themselves_o but_o so_o esteem_v by_o we_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n he_o will_v likewise_o oppose_v himself_o to_o those_o his_o brethren_n who_o grant_v that_o controversy_n can_v be_v end_v without_o some_o external_a live_a authority_n as_o we_o note_v before_o beside_o how_o can_v it_o be_v in_o we_o a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o say_v the_o scripture_n alone_o be_v not_o judge_n of_o controversy_n see_v notwithstanding_o this_o our_o belief_n we_o use_v for_o interpret_n of_o scripture_n all_o the_o mean_n which_o they_o prescribe_v as_o 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to_o error_n in_o such_o
confutation_n can_v there_o be_v then_o by_o your_o own_o word_n the_o believer_n see_v for_o if_o he_o see_v how_o do_v he_o believe_v or_o if_o he_o believe_v how_o do_v he_o see_v especial_o since_o you_o say_v he_o believe_v and_o see_v upon_o the_o same_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n yet_o that_o scripture_n be_v know_v by_o itself_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o saych_a that_o the_o scripture_n 2._o scripture_n de_fw-fr verb._n deilib_n 1._o çap._n 2._o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a write_n be_v most_o certain_a and_o divine_a scripture_n itself_o witness_v but_o these_o word_n will_v prove_v to_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o place_n dispute_v against_o the_o swenckfeldian_a heretic_n who_o deny_v all_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v ibid._n allege_v ibid._n testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o think_v that_o his_o adversary_n make_v any_o great_a account_n of_o they_o but_o lest_o the_o scripture_n the_o authority_n whereof_o his_o adversary_n do_v sometime_o abuse_v against_o we_o who_o reverence_n they_o may_v be_v think_v to_o favour_v their_o doctrine_n be_v this_o to_o affirm_v that_o scripture_n be_v certain_o and_o evident_o know_v by_o scripture_n or_o rather_o contrary_o to_o say_v that_o it_o must_v first_o be_v believe_v before_o it_o be_v powerful_a to_o persuade_v and_o therefore_o immediate_o after_o the_o word_n by_o you_o cite_v which_o be_v the_o scripture_n self_n witness_v he_o add_v these_o which_o you_o as_o you_o be_v wont_a leave_v out_o who_o prediction_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v if_o they_o be_v true_a as_o the_o event_n afterward_o do_v manifest_a why_o shall_v not_o the_o testimony_n of_o thing_n present_v be_v true_a where_o you_o see_v that_o he_o prove_v not_o the_o scripture_n by_o that_o beam_n of_o light_n which_o evidenly_a shine_v in_o scripture_n but_o by_o prediction_n which_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v a_o good_a 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testimony_n of_o the_o church_n by_o mean_n of_o tradition_n whereof_o bellarmine_n say_v this_o so_o necessary_a a_o point_n to_o wit_n that_o 4._o that_o deverb_v dei_fw-la nonseripro_fw-la lib._n 4._o c._n 4._o there_o be_v some_o divine_a scripture_n can_v be_v have_v from_o scripture_n itself_o whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o you_o plain_o corrupt_v bellarmine_n meaning_n when_o you_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v out_o of_o he_o that_o scripture_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o the_o contrary_a whereof_o he_o affirm_v and_o prove_v at_o large_a against_o the_o heretic_n of_o these_o time_n the_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v of_o origen_n only_o prove_v that_o those_o who_o already_o believe_v the_o canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n may_v prove_v out_o of_o they_o that_o scripture_n be_v divine_o inspire_v as_o s._n peter_n 21._o peter_n epist._n 2._o vers_fw-la 21._o say_v neither_o do_v the_o authority_n of_o saluianus_n prove_v any_o thing_n else_o 10._o your_o say_n that_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n a_o absolute_a 144.145_o absolute_a pag._n 144.145_o unlimited_a authority_n to_o propound_v what_o she_o please_v and_o a_o unlimited_a power_n to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o scripture_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o mere_a slander_n as_o also_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absolute_a not_o 144._o not_o pag._n 144._o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o on_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o depend_v and_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o inculcate_v by_o catholic_a writer_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o church_n but_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o who_o learno_fw-la from_o she_o what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o be_v to_o say_v not_o the_o scripture_n but_o our_o weak_a understanding_n and_o knowledge_n of_o scripture_n rely_v on_o the_o church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n command_v we_o to_o hear_v and_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n 142.143_o church_n pag._n 142.143_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n to_o our_o faith_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n depend_v on_o scripture_n will_v you_o thence_o in_o fer_fw-fr that_o the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n in_o themselves_o depend_v on_o scripture_n as_o if_o god_n have_v not_o be_v god_n unless_o scripture_n have_v be_v write_v beside_o to_o such_o as_o believe_v scripture_n we_o may_v prove_v the_o church_n herself_o by_o scripture_n and_o she_o in_o all_o her_o definition_n do_v consult_v examine_v and_o submit_v herself_o to_o scripture_n against_o which_o she_o never_o do_v nor_o ever_o can_v define_v any_o thing_n &_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o she_o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o to_o make_v good_a your_o slander_n you_o 144._o you_o pag._n 144._o cite_v bellarmine_n after_o your_o wont_a fashion_n if_o we_o take_v away_o testimonium_fw-la away_o de_fw-fr effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 25._o §_o tertium_fw-la testimonium_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n this_o of_o rome_n be_v your_o addition_n and_o of_o the_o trent-councell_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v as_o doubtful_a for_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n and_o of_o all_o counsel_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n depend_v on_o the_o church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n only_o say_v that_o we_o can_v not_o infallible_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o general_n counsel_n and_o that_o they_o be_v law_n full_a counsel_n and_o that_o they_o define_v this_o or_o that_o but_o because_o the_o present_a church_n which_o can_v err_v do_v so_o believe_v and_o teach_v us._n which_o word_n demonstrate_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o but_o in_o respect_n of_o us._n and_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n which_o direct_v we_o to_o scripture_n and_o that_o she_o likewise_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n without_o which_o propesition_n no_o object_n can_v be_v convey_v to_o our_o 142.143_o our_o pag._n 142.143_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n without_o the_o guidance_n direction_n and_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o 11._o you_o likewise_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o est_fw-la of_o de_fw-fr eccles_n mil._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 10_o §._o ad_fw-la haec_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la bellarmine_n the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n 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well_o may_v you_o take_v they_o upon_o the_o