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church_n shall_v have_v just_a cause_n under_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n in_o manner_n of_o faith_n to_o make_v a_o separation_n from_o the_o whole_a church_n this_o his_o lordship_n say_v by_o a._n c_o his_o favour_n 18._o be_v mere_a beg_v the_o question_n for_o this_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o the_o protestant_n charge_v upon_o he_o namely_o that_o he_o have_v govern_v if_o not_o the_o whole_a yet_o so_o much_o of_o the_o church_n as_o he_o have_v be_v able_a to_o bring_v under_o his_o power_n so_o as_o that_o he_o have_v give_v too_o just_a cause_n of_o the_o present_a continue_a separation_n and_o as_o the_o corruption_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o first_o separation_n so_o be_v they_o at_o this_o present_a day_n the_o cause_n why_o the_o separation_n continue_v
mistake_n to_o suppose_v a_o church_n can_v continue_v without_o a_o vital_a inherent_a principle_n of_o infallibility_n in_o herself_o which_o must_v be_v discover_v by_o infallible_a direction_n from_o the_o head_n of_o it_o whereas_o we_o grant_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o infallible_a foundation_n of_o faith_n but_o can_v discern_v either_o from_o scripture_n reason_n or_o antiquity_n that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o live_n and_o stand_v infallible_a judge_n which_o must_v deliver_v and_o interpret_v those_o infallible_a record_n to_o we_o we_o grant_v then_o infallibility_n in_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n we_o assert_v the_o high_a certainty_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o that_o foundation_n we_o declare_v that_o the_o own_n of_o that_o infallible_a foundation_n be_v that_o which_o make_v man_n christian_n the_o body_n of_o who_o we_o call_v a_o church_n we_o further_o grant_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v in_o his_o church_n sufficient_a mean_n for_o the_o preservation_n 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very_o little_a success_n you_o have_v in_o the_o attempt_n of_o prove_v the_o church_n continual_a infallibility_n from_o scripture_n from_o hence_o you_o proceed_v to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o way_n 11._o how_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n do_v mutual_o confirm_v each_o other_o his_o lordship_n grant_v that_o they_o do_v mutual_o but_o not_o equal_o confirm_v the_o authority_n either_o of_o other_o â—_o for_o scripture_n do_v infallible_o confirm_v the_o authority_n of_o church-tradition_n true_o so_o call_v but_o tradition_n do_v but_o moral_o and_o probable_o confirm_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n this_o you_o say_v be_v apparent_o false_a but_o endeavour_v not_o to_o make_v it_o evident_a that_o it_o be_v so_o only_o you_o say_v 105._o a._n c._n refuse_v already_o to_o grant_v it_o et_fw-la quid_fw-la tum_fw-la postea_fw-la must_v every_o thing_n be_v false_a which_o a._n c._n refuse_v to_o grant_v but_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o his_o similitude_n make_v 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viz._n the_o
and_o the_o oppression_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n he_o further_o add_v be_v the_o great_a cause_n of_o all_o the_o error_n in_o that_o part_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v under_o the_o roman_a jurisdiction_n and_o for_o the_o protestant_n they_o have_v make_v no_o separation_n from_o the_o general_n church_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o their_o separation_n be_v only_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o such_o other_o church_n as_o by_o adhere_v to_o she_o have_v hazard_v themselves_o and_o do_v now_o miscall_v themselves_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n nay_o even_o here_o the_o protestant_n have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o essence_n but_o in_o her_o error_n not_o in_o the_o thing_n which_o constitute_v a_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o abuse_n and_o corruption_n as_o work_v towards_o the_o dissolution_n of_o a_o church_n let_v now_o any_o indifferent_a reader_n be_v judge_n whether_o his_o lordship_n or_o a._n c._n be_v the_o more_o guilty_a in_o beg_v the_o question_n 212._o for_o all_o the_o answer_v you_o can_v give_v be_v that_o his_o lordship_n beg_v it_o in_o say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n and_o that_o the_o roman_n catholic_n church_n may_v be_v in_o a_o error_n but_o the_o former_a we_o have_v prove_v already_o and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o the_o latter_a will_v be_v as_o evident_a as_o the_o other_o before_o our_o task_n be_v end_v but_o as_o though_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o you_o to_o be_v guilty_a of_o beg_v the_o question_n after_o you_o have_v say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n can_v err_v you_o give_v this_o as_o the_o reason_n for_o it_o because_o she_o be_v the_o unshaken_a rock_n of_o truth_n and_o that_o she_o have_v the_o sole_a continual_a succession_n of_o lawfully-sent_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n who_o have_v teach_v the_o same_o unchanged_a doctrine_n and_o shall_v infallible_o continue_v so_o teach_v it_o to_o the_o world_n end_n 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who_o know_v not_o what_o confident_a beg_v the_o question_n mean_v or_o out_o of_o modesty_n be_v loath_a to_o charge_v you_o with_o it_o much_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n do_v you_o go_v on_o to_o prove_v that_o protestant_n have_v separate_v not_o from_o the_o error_n but_o the_o essence_n of_o your_o church_n and_o if_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v that_o those_o thing_n which_o we_o call_v error_n be_v essential_a to_o your_o church_n we_o be_v the_o more_o sorry_a for_o it_o for_o we_o be_v sure_a and_o when_o you_o please_v will_v prove_v it_o that_o they_o be_v not_o can_v be_v essential_a to_o a_o true_a church_n and_o if_o they_o be_v to_o you_o the_o case_n be_v so_o much_o the_o worse_o with_o you_o when_o your_o distemper_n be_v in_o your_o vital_n and_o your_o error_n essential_a to_o your_o church_n constitution_n what_o other_o thing_n you_o have_v here_o be_v the_o bare_a repetition_n of_o what_o we_o have_v often_o have_v before_o in_o the_o chapter_n you_o refer_v we_o to_o and_o here_o we_o may_v thank_v you_o for_o some_o ease_n you_o give_v we_o in_o the_o far_o great_a remain_a part_n of_o this_o chapter_n which_o consist_v of_o tedious_a repetition_n of_o such_o thing_n which_o have_v be_v large_o discuss_v in_o the_o first_o part_n where_o they_o be_v purposely_o and_o design_o handle_v as_o that_o concern_v tradition_n chap._n 6._o that_o concern_v necessary_n to_o salvation_n 6._o chap._n 2_o 3_o 4._o that_o concern_v the_o scripture_n be_v a_o infallible_a rule_n 8._o throughout_o the_o controversy_n of_o resolution_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o which_o concern_v the_o infallibility_n of_o general_n council_n we_o shall_v have_v occasion_n at_o large_a to_o handle_v afterward_o 57_o and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n material_a here_o which_o you_o omit_v there_o it_o shall_v be_v full_o consider_v but_o i_o know_v no_o obligation_n lie_v upon_o i_o to_o answer_v thing_n as_o often_o as_o you_o repeat_v they_o especial_o since_o your_o gift_n be_v so_o good_a that_o way_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o i_o know_v not_o of_o any_o material_a passage_n which_o have_v not_o receive_v a_o answer_n in_o its_o proper_a place_n that_o which_o be_v most_o pertinent_a to_o our_o present_a purpose_n be_v that_o which_o concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o live_a judge_n 7._o beside_o the_o scripture_n for_o end_a controversy_n of_o faith_n as_o to_o which_o his_o lordship_n say_v that_o suppose_v there_o be_v such_o a_o one_o and_o the_o pope_n be_v he_o 6._o yet_o that_o be_v not_o sufficient_a against_o the_o malice_n of_o the_o devil_n and_o impious_a man_n to_o keep_v the_o church_n at_o all_o time_n from_o rent_v even_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n or_o to_o solder_v the_o rent_n which_o be_v make_v for_o oportet_fw-la esse_fw-la haereses_fw-la 1_o cor._n 11.19_o heresy_n there_o will_v be_v and_o heresy_n there_o proper_o can_v be_v but_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v 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the_o rest_n be_v rebel_n and_o traitor_n and_o be_v not_o this_o just_a the_o same_o answer_n which_o you_o give_v here_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v still_o appoint_v to_o keep_v peace_n and_o unity_n in_o the_o church_n because_o all_o that_o question_n his_o authority_n be_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n but_o as_o in_o the_o former_a case_n the_o sure_a way_n to_o prevent_v those_o consequence_n be_v to_o produce_v that_o power_n and_o authority_n which_o the_o king_n have_v give_v he_o and_o that_o shall_v be_v the_o first_o thing_n which_o shall_v be_v make_v evident_a from_o authentic_a record_n and_o the_o clear_a testimony_n of_o the_o grave_a senator_n so_o if_o you_o can_v produce_v the_o letter_n patent_n whereby_o christ_n make_v the_o pope_n the_o great_a lord_n chancellor_n of_o his_o church_n to_o determine_v all_o controversy_n of_o faith_n and_o show_v this_o attest_v by_o the_o concurrent_a voice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n who_o best_o know_v what_o order_n 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authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o one_o bishop_n above_o another_o st._n hierom_n be_v not_o so_o senseless_a as_o not_o to_o see_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n constantinople_n and_o alexandria_n have_v great_a authority_n and_o large_a jurisdiction_n in_o the_o church_n than_o the_o petty_a bishop_n of_o eugubium_n rhegium_n and_o tanis_n but_o all_o this_o he_o know_v well_o enough_o come_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n that_o one_o bishop_n shall_v have_v large_a power_n in_o the_o church_n than_o another_o but_o say_v he_o if_o you_o come_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o what_o ought_v to_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o church_n then_o say_v he_o orbis_n major_a est_fw-la urbe_fw-la it_o be_v no_o one_o city_n as_o that_o of_o rome_n which_o he_o particular_o instance_v in_o which_o can_v prescribe_v to_o the_o whole_a world_n for_o say_v he_o all_o bishop_n be_v of_o equal_a merit_n and_o the_o same_o priesthood_n wheresoever_o they_o be_v whether_o 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apostoli_fw-la meritum_fw-la sive_fw-la principatus_fw-la deinde_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la venerandorum_fw-la authoritas_fw-la etc._n etc._n where_o binius_fw-la confess_v a_o account_n be_v give_v of_o the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n the_o first_o ground_n of_o which_o st._n peter_n merit_n or_o principality_n apply_v now_o but_o this_o sense_n to_o s._n hierom_n and_o he_o may_v be_v very_o easy_o understand_v all_o bishop_n be_v ejusdem_fw-la meriti_fw-la sive_fw-la principatus_fw-la of_o the_o same_o merit_n dignity_n or_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n but_o you_o say_v he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o pope_n as_o he_o be_v pope_n good_a reason_n for_o it_o for_o st._n hierom_n know_v no_o such_o supremacy_n in_o the_o pope_n as_o he_o now_o challenge_v and_o can_v you_o think_v if_o st._n hierom_n have_v believe_v such_o a_o authority_n in_o the_o pope_n as_o you_o do_v he_o will_v ever_o have_v use_v such_o word_n as_o these_o be_v to_o compare_v he_o with_o the_o 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speak_v of_o they_o with_o relation_n to_o that_o authority_n which_o they_o derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n and_o never_o have_v there_o be_v great_a necessity_n for_o he_o to_o speak_v of_o the_o pope_n succeed_v s._n peter_n in_o the_o supremacy_n over_o the_o church_n than_o here_o if_o he_o have_v know_v any_o such_o thing_n but_o he_o must_v be_v excuse_v he_o be_v ignorant_a of_o it_o no_o that_o he_o can_v not_o be_v say_v you_o again_o for_o he_o speak_v of_o it_o elsewhere_o and_o therefore_o he_o must_v be_v so_o understand_v there_o as_o that_o he_o neither_o contradict_v nor_o condemn_v himself_o but_o if_o the_o epistle_n to_o damasus_n be_v all_o your_o evidence_n for_o it_o a_o sufficient_a account_n have_v be_v give_v of_o that_o already_o therefore_o you_o add_v more_o and_o bid_v we_o go_v find_v they_o out_o to_o see_v whether_o they_o make_v for_o the_o purpose_n or_o no._n i_o be_o sure_a your_o first_o do_v not_o out_o of_o his_o commentary_n on_o the_o 13._o psalm_n because_o it_o only_o speak_v of_o s._n peter_n be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o of_o the_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o may_v import_v only_a dignity_n and_o pre-eminence_n without_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n beside_o that_o commentary_n on_o the_o psalm_n be_v reject_v as_o spurious_a by_o erasmus_n sixtus_n senensis_n and_o many_o other_o among_o yourselves_o your_o second_o ad_fw-la demetriadem_fw-la virginem_fw-la be_v much_o less_o to_o your_o purpose_n for_o that_o only_o speak_v of_o innocentius_n come_v after_o anastasius_n at_o rome_n qui_fw-la apostolicae_fw-la cathedrae_fw-la &_o supradicti_fw-la viri_fw-la successor_n &_o filius_fw-la est_fw-la who_o succeed_v he_o in_o the_o apostolical_a chair_n but_o do_v you_o not_o know_v that_o there_o be_v many_o apostolical_a chair_n beside_o that_o of_o rome_n and_o have_v every_o one_o of_o they_o supreme_a authority_n over_o the_o church_n of_o god_n what_o that_o shall_v be_v on_o the_o 16._o of_o s._n matthew_n i_o can_v imagine_v unless_o it_o be_v that_o s._n peter_n be_v call_v princeps_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la which_o honour_n we_o deny_v he_o not_o or_o that_o he_o say_v aedificabo_fw-la ecâ—lesiam_fw-la meam_fw-la super_fw-la te_fw-la but_o how_o these_o thing_n concern_v the_o pope_n authority_n unless_o you_o have_v further_o enlighten_v we_o i_o can_v understand_v that_o ep_n 54._o ad_fw-la marcellam_fw-la be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n with_o the_o last_o for_o the_o word_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v be_v petrus_n super_fw-la quem_fw-la dominus_fw-la fundaâ—it_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la and_o if_o you_o see_v what_o erasmus_n say_v upon_o that_o place_n you_o will_v have_v little_a cause_n to_o boast_v much_o of_o it_o your_o last_o place_n be_v l._n 1._o cont._n lucifer_n which_o i_o suppose_v to_o be_v that_o common_o cite_v thence_o ecclesiae_fw-la salus_fw-la in_o summi_fw-la sacerdotis_fw-la dignitate_fw-la pendet_fw-la but_o there_o even_o marianus_n victorius_n will_v tell_v you_o it_o be_v understand_v of_o every_o ordinary_a bishop_n thus_o i_o have_v take_v the_o pain_n to_o search_v those_o place_n you_o naked_o refer_v we_o to_o in_o s._n hierom_n and_o find_v he_o far_o enough_o from_o the_o least_o danger_n of_o contradict_v or_o condemn_v himself_o as_o to_o any_o thing_n which_o be_v here_o speak_v by_o he_o so_o that_o we_o see_v s._n hierom_n remain_v a_o sufficient_a testimony_n against_o the_o pope_n monarchical_a government_n of_o the_o church_n his_o lordship_n further_o argue_v against_o this_o monarchy_n in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o great_a and_o undoubted_a rule_n give_v by_o optatus_n 14._o 200._o that_o wheresoever_o there_o be_v a_o church_n 3._o there_o the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o not_o the_o commonwealth_n in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o also_o the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o roman_a empire_n now_o from_o this_o ground_n say_v his_o lordship_n i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o church_n be_v within_o the_o empire_n or_o other_o kingdom_n it_o be_v impossible_a the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v monarchical_a for_o no_o emperor_n or_o king_n will_v endure_v another_o king_n within_o his_o dominion_n that_o shall_v be_v great_a than_o himself_o since_o the_o very_a endure_a it_o make_v he_o that_o endure_v it_o upon_o the_o matter_n no_o monarch_n 223._o your_o answer_n to_o this_o be_v that_o these_o two_o kingdom_n be_v of_o different_a nature_n the_o one_o spiritual_a the_o other_o temporal_a the_o one_o exercise_v only_o in_o such_o thing_n as_o concern_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o the_o eternal_a salvation_n of_o soul_n the_o other_o in_o affair_n that_o concern_v this_o world_n only_o sure_o you_o will_v persuade_v we_o we_o have_v never_o hear_v of_o much_o less_o read_v bellarmin_n first_o book_n de_fw-fr pontifice_fw-la about_o the_o pope_n temporal_a power_n which_o be_v fain_o to_o get_v licence_n for_o the_o other_o four_o to_o pass_v at_o rome_n and_o although_o he_o mince_v
civil_a power_n have_v a_o right_a to_o meddle_v in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o though_o you_o express_v never_o so_o much_o honour_n to_o civil_a authority_n yet_o still_o you_o limit_v it_o to_o the_o administration_n mere_o of_o civil_a affair_n and_o how_o far_o that_o be_v be_v well_o enough_o know_v you_o tell_v we_o plain_o that_o it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o emperor_n to_o order_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o church_n but_o why_o do_v you_o not_o answer_v the_o reason_n and_o instance_n which_o his_o lordship_n bring_v to_o the_o contrary_a yet_o you_o yield_v that_o in_o case_n of_o notorious_a and_o gross_a abuse_n manifest_o contrary_a to_o religion_n and_o connive_v at_o by_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n christian_a prince_n may_v lawful_o and_o pious_o use_v their_o authority_n in_o procure_v the_o say_a abuse_n to_o be_v effectual_o redress_v by_o the_o say_a pastor_n 226._o as_o the_o example_n of_o ezekias_n and_o josias_n prove_v but_o in_o case_n the_o 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they_o with_o such_o frivolous_a distinction_n that_o his_o understanding_n must_v be_v as_o blind_a as_o his_o obedience_n that_o do_v not_o see_v through_o they_o you_o be_v much_o concern_v that_o his_o lordship_n shall_v seem_v to_o give_v a_o lash_n to_o those_o mortify_a self-denying_a man_n the_o jesuit_n in_o bid_v they_o leave_v their_o practise_v to_o advance_v the_o greatness_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o emperor_n for_o who_o can_v believe_v they_o shall_v deprive_v themselves_o of_o the_o riches_n and_o pleasure_n of_o the_o world_n upon_o such_o design_n undoubted_o you_o be_v one_o of_o the_o number_n for_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o any_o other_o order_n among_o you_o do_v ever_o give_v they_o half_o so_o good_a word_n but_o condemn_v they_o as_o much_o for_o their_o practise_v as_o we_o do_v ourselves_o and_o what_o holy_a man_n they_o be_v and_o what_o excellent_a casuistical_a divinity_n about_o both_o the_o riches_n and_o pleasure_n of_o the_o world_n if_o we_o do_v not_o otherwise_o know_v the_o mystery_n of_o jesuitism_n will_v sufficient_o discover_v to_o what_o his_o lordship_n say_v further_a 211._o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o one_o supreme_a live_a judge_n to_o keep_v the_o church_n in_o peace_n and_o unity_n but_o that_o the_o several_a bishop_n under_o their_o sovereign_a prince_n be_v sufficient_a in_o order_n to_o it_o you_o only_o say_v that_o he_o quote_v occam_n for_o it_o but_o do_v he_o nothing_o else_o but_o quote_v occam_n why_o do_v you_o not_o answer_v to_o the_o thing_n and_o not_o bare_o to_o occam_n you_o have_v very_o good_a reason_n for_o it_o for_o you_o have_v little_a to_o say_v to_o the_o thing_n itself_o but_o for_o occam_n you_o have_v enough_o to_o tell_v he_o in_o his_o ear_n 1._o that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n a_o good_a testimony_n for_o the_o man_n honesty_n 2._o that_o he_o side_v with_o the_o emperor_n a_o crime_n beyond_o a_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la at_o rome_n 3._o 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the_o illegality_n of_o it_o manifest_v first_o from_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o the_o rule_n it_o proceed_v by_o different_z from_o that_o of_o the_o first_o general_n council_n and_o from_o the_o pope_n presidency_n in_o it_o the_o matter_n of_o right_o concern_v it_o discuss_v in_o what_o case_n superior_n may_v be_v except_v against_o as_o party_n the_o pope_n just_o except_v against_o as_o a_o party_n and_o therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v judge_n the_o necessity_n of_o a_o reformation_n in_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n acknowledge_v by_o roman_a catholic_n the_o matter_n of_o fact_n inquire_v into_o as_o to_o the_o pope_n presidency_n in_o general_a council_n hosius_n do_v not_o preside_v in_o the_o nicene_n council_n as_o the_o pope_n legat._v the_o pope_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v in_o the_o second_o general_n council_n two_o council_n hold_v at_o constantinople_n