of Argument to disprove it but knowing it to be the sense of all Antiquity windes about and falls upon that odious question of Killing and deposing Kings wherein he presum'd it would be more easie for him to choak his adversary But it shall not serve his turn For we say first he commits a gross fallacy arguing à negatione speciei ad negationem generis which is a new kinde of Logick For what is it else to inferre the Pope has no Universal Power or Supremacy at all over the whole Church because he hath not such or such a particular power over Christian Kings and Princes His Lordship should have remembred that we were yet upon the question An sit whether or no the Pope hath an universal Power and Authority over the whole Church which till it be fairly determin'd 't is but to make too much haste and pervert due order to fall upon the Question Quid sit and dispute wherein it consists and how far it extends Secondly we answer the point of killing Kings is a most false and scandalous Imputation For what Pope ever kill'd or gave Command Warrant or Authority for the killing of any King or what Catholique Author ever taught that he had power from Christ so to do And as for deposing them I answer 't is no point of our Faith that the Pope hath power to do it and therefore it is no part of my task to dispute it But what Protestants have both done and justifi'd in the worst of these kindes is but too fresh in memory 4. A. C. does not beg the question when he sayes The Bishop of Rome shall never refuse to feed and govern the whole Flock of Christ in such sort as no particular man or Church shall have just cause to make a separation from it seeing it is the clear inference of his precedent discourse it is rather a begging the question in his Lordship to tell us onely while he ought to prove it that Protestants have made no Separation from the General Church but onely from the Church of Rome and such other Churches as by adhering to her have hazarded themselves and do now mis-call themselves THE WHOLE CATHOLIQUE CHURCH It is also in this case a begging the question to affirm the Roman-Catholique Church to be in errour since no man did ever grant his Lordship that she was so or hath he any where convinc'd her of errour He hath often said it and suppos'd it I know but where he hath prov'd it I know not 'T is therefore yet to be prov'd that the Roman-Catholique Church hath err'd in any Doctrine publiquely defined by her Again we deny there is any hazard in adhering to the Roman Church she being the unshaken Rock of Truth and solely able to shew a continual Succession of lawfully-Sent Pastors and Teachers from Christ to our present times who have hitherto taught the same unchanged Doctrine and shall infallibly according to Christs promise continue so teaching it unto the worlds end From this onely Catholique Church Protestants have unhappily sever'd themselves as I have already prov'd and are through their own fault so absolutely depriv'd of all Communion with her that they can no more be esteem'd members of this Church in the condition they now stand then a wither'd branch can be accounted a part of the Tree from which it was broken In vain therefore doth the Relatour pretend that Protestants have not left the Church in her Essence but in her Errours The Essence of the Church consists in her Faith Sacraments Discipline In all these 't is too manifest to be deny'd Protestants have forsaken the Church yea and perpetually fight against her wherefore they have left her in things essential or pertaining to the life and being of the Church And yet they have the confidence to call these Essentials Errours which is a bold and erroneous presumption wherein they imitate no less the old Heretiques in the Primitive times of the Church viz. the Novatians Arians Nestorians c. then the Swarms of new Sectaries among themselves For which of all these did not or would not upon occasion plead they forsook not the Essence of the Church but her Errours they separated not from her Communion but Corruption 5. Well But after all disputes a man would imagine that our learned Antagonist would at length submit to a General Council For first he thus professes speaking to A. C. What greater or surer judgement you can have where sense of Scripture is doubted then a General Council I do not see And immediately after he cites a long Text of A. C's which speaks to this purpose That if all the Pastours of the Church be gather'd together in the Name of Christ and pray unanimously for the promis'd Assistance of the Holy Ghost making great and diligent search and examination of the Scriptures and other grounds of Faith and hearing each Pastour declare what hath been the Ancient Tradition of this Church shall thereupon Decree some particular point or matter to be held for Divine Truth if the Pastours of the Church or General Council may erre in such a Decree what can be firm or certain upon Earth In answer to this he both professes that it seems fair and also freely grants that a General Council is the best Judge on Earth for Controversies of Faith where the sense of Scripture is doubted This would make a man think the Bishop intended to conform himself to such a Decree But to the end all the world may see how unwillingly he yields to reason especially when it comes from an Adversary he presently again begins to quarrel with A. C. telling us there was never any such General Council call'd nor indeed possible to be call'd as A. C. speaks of viz. in which all Pastours were gather'd together As if A. C. were so simple as by all Pastours to understand Numerically and Individually ALL that is every one of them without exception and that a Council could not be thought sufficiently General nor an Obligatory Decree of Faith be made by it unless all the Pastours of the Church in this sense were gather'd together especially he having so clearly declar'd his meaning to the contrary in defending the Council of Trent to have been a true General Council where 't is manifest all Pastours whatsoever did not convene though there were as many as had met in some other General Councils esteem'd even by Protestants for such And strange it is to see how long the Relatour skirmishes with meer shadows and what inferences he makes meerly upon this most salsly-suppos'd and wholly-improbable sense of A. C's words All Pastours then in that Text of A. C. signifie no more then all that are requisite or so many of all as are in the judgement of Reason and Christian Prudence duly sufficient to constitute a True and Lawful General Council If so many lawfully call'd be gather'd together 't is the ALL that A. C. intends and
that in Recognition thereof it decreed that all Constitutions of Councils and all the Synodical Epistles of the Roman Bishops should remain in their ancient force and vigour But what sayes his Reserve his Master-Allegation the Fourth Council of Toledo just as much as the rest It added sayes the Bishop some things to the Creed which were not expresly deliver'd in former Creeds So they might well do for fuller explication of what was implicitely deliver'd before and in opposition to Heresies already condemn'd by the whole Church Did it adde any thing contrary to to the common Faith of the Church or of the Sea Apostolique which is the question in hand and which Protestants did in all their pretended National Pseudo-Synods Neither needed the Prelates to ask express leave of the Sea of Rome to convene and determine matters concerning the whole Church provided it were done with due Subordination to the Sea Apostolique For that thus a National Synod may proceed the Council of Milevis a little above cited doth sufficiently declare which with the Authority of the Sea Apostolique concurring condemn'd the Heresie of Pelagius By such examples as these does our Adversary labour to justifie his Reformed English Church Thus does he prove that Provincial and Particular Councils may sometimes make Reformation in matters of Faith and Doctrine without yea against the Authority of the Apostolique Sea Hath he not worthily acquitted himself of his Province think you when in all the instances he brings there is not the least glance or intimation of any thing done contrary to the Popes Authority but express mention of it and of due regard towards it He urges again that the Church of Rome added the word Filioque to the Creed But can any man in his wits think it was done without and against the Popes consent Surely the Relatour cannot be thought here to have well minded his matter or peradventure he perswaded himself the multitude of his Allegations would serve to hide the impertinency of them 9. Yet after so many lost proofs with a confidence as great as if they had been all Demonstrations he asks us the question And if this was practis'd so often and in so many places why may not a National Council of the Church of England do the like Truly I know no reason why it may not provided it be a True National Council and a True Church of England as those recited were true Churches and Councils and provided also that it do no more But seeing as his following words declare by the Church of England he menas the present Protestant Church there and by National Council either that Pseudo-Synod above-mentioned in the year 1562. or some other like it I must crave leave of his Lordship to deny his supposition and tell him the Church of England in that sense signifies no true Church neither is such a National Council to be accounted a lawful Synod duly representative of the true English Church For is it not notorious that the persons constituting that pretended Synod in the year 1562. were all manifest usurpers Is it not manifest that they all by force intruded themselves both into the Seas of other lawful Bishops and into the Cures of other lawful Pastours quietly and Canonically possessed of them before their said Intrusion Can those be accounted a lawful National Council of England or lawfully to represent the English Church who never had any lawful that is Canonical and Just Vocation Mission or Jurisdiction given them to and over the English Nation But suppose they had been True Bishops and Pastors of the English Church and their Assembly a lawful National Council yet were they so far from doing the like to what the forementioned particular Churches and Councils did that they acted directly contrary to them Not one of those Councils condemned any point of Faith that had been generally believ'd and practis'd in the Church before them as this Synod of London did Not one of them contradicted the doctrine of the Roman Church as this did None of them convened against the express will of the Bishop of Rome as this Conventicle did None of them deny'd the Popes Authority or attempted to deprive him of it as these did so far as 't was in their power What Parallel then is there between the proceedings of the abovesaid National Synods or Councils of Rome Gangres Carthage Aquileia c. and the Bishops pretended Synod of Protestants at London in the year 1562. What the Bishops in King Henry the eighths time did is known and confess'd not only by Bishop Gardiner afterward in Queen Maries reign who was the learnedst Prelat then in England but even by Protestant Authors to have been extorted from them rather by threats force then otherwise and consequently can be of no great advantage to the Bishop And yet what they subscrib'd was far out-done by the Synod of 62. For though the Henry-Bishops as we may call them for distinction seemingly at least renounced the Popes Canonical and acquired Jurisdiction here in England I mean that Authority and Jurisdiction in Ecclesiastical matters which the Pope exercis'd here by vertue of the Canons Prescription and other title of humane Right and gave it to the King yet they never renounc'd or depriv'd him of that part of his Authority which is far more intrinsecal to his office and absolutely of Divine Right they never deny'd the Popes Sovereign Power to teach the universal Church and determine all Controversies of Faith whatsoever with a General Council nor did they dissent from him in any of those points of Faith which that Synod of London condemned in the year 1562. That which the King aim'd at was to get the Power into his hands and to have those Authorities Prerogatives Immunities annexed to his Crown which the Pope enjoyed and had exercised here in England time out minde in Ecclesiastical Causes that is in the Goverment and Discipline of the English Church and to this the Bishops yielded but what concern'd the Popes Authority in relation to the whole Catholique Church for ought appears clearly to the contrary both the Bishops and the King too left the Pope in possession of all that he could rightly challenge I have no more to say to this part of his Paragraph onely I observe that though his Lordship will not acknowledge Heresie or 〈◊〉 to have had place in his pretended Reformation yet he does not deny but Sacriledge too often reforms Superstition which yet he is ready to excuse telling us it was the Crime of the Reformers not of the Reformation But we ask What induc'd those Reformers to commit Sacriledge but the novel and impious Maximes of their Reformation Was it for any thing else that they sack't and demolisht so many Monasteries and Religious Houses alienating their Lands and Revenues but because by the principles of Reformation they held it Superstition to be a Religious Person or to live a Monastical life Was it for
pag. 65. But why joyns he a wrangling to an erring Disputer are these think you Synonyma's I esteem his Lordship an erring Disputer yet he had reason to think me uncivil if I should call him a wrangling Disputer If they be not of the same signification why ha's he added in the exposition of St. Augustins words the word wrangling seeing in the sentence here debated there is neither wrangler not any thing like it Oh! I see now it is done to distinguish him from such a Disputer as proceeds solidly and demonstratively against the Definitions of the Catholique Church when they are ill founded But where findes he any such Disputer in St. Augustins words upon whose Authority he grounds his Position Seeing that most holy and learned Doctor is so far from judging that any one can proceed solidly aud demonstratively against the Definitions and Tenets of the Catholique Church and Occumenicall Councils that he judges him a mad man who disputes against any thing quod Universa Ecclesia senti which is held by the whole Church and that they have hearts not onely of stone but even of Devils who resist so great a manifestation of Truth as is made by an Oecumenicall Council for of that he speaks 3. After this the Bishop makes mention of one who should say That things are Fundamentul in Faith two wayes one in the matter such as are all things in themselves The other in the manner such as are all things which the Church hath defined and declared to be of Faith 'T is not set down who it was that spake thus But whoever he was I am not bound to defend him neither was his speech so proper He might have said some thing like it and have hit the mark viz. That Things are Fundamentall in Faith two wayes one in regard of the material object such as are the prime Articles of our Faith which are expresly to be believed by all The other in regard of the formal object such as are all Things that the Church hath defined to be of Faith because he that denies his assent to any one of these when they are sufficiently proposed does in effect deny his assent to the authority and word of God declared to him by the Church and this being to take away or deny the very formal object of Divine Supernatural Faith by consequence it destroyes the Foundation of all such Faith in any other point whatsoever Wherefore let any man with the Bishop view as long as he pleases the Morter wherewith this Foundation is laid and if he consider it rightly he will finde it well tempered Our assertion is That all points defined by the Church are Fundamental because according to St. Augustin to dispute against any thing settled by full Authority of the Church and such are all things defined by her is to shake the Foundation Hence the Relator would inferre we intend to maintain that the point there spoken of the remission of original sin in the Baptizing of Infants was defined when St. Augustin wrote this by full sentence of a General Council But I deny that from urging that place of St. Augustin we can be concluded to have any such meaning For by Authority of the Church we mean and not unproperly the Church generally practising this Doctrine and defining it in a National Council confirmed by the Pope For this was plena Authoritas Ecclesiae though not plenissima full though not the fullest and to dispute against what was so practised and defined is in St. Augustins sense to shake the Foundation of the Church if not wholly to destroy it Wherefore although one grant what Bellarmin sayes That the Pelagian Heresie was never condemn'd in an Oecumenical Council but onely by a National yet doubtless whoever should go about to revive that Heresie would be justly condemn'd without calling a General Council as one that oppos'd himself against the full Authority of the Church and did shake its foundation But the Bishop sayes Bellarmin was deceived in this business and that the Pelagian Heresie was condemn'd in the first Ephesine Council which was Oecumenical I answer first 'c is not credible that Bellarmin who writ so much of Controversie should not have read that Council nor can there be any suspicion of his concealing the matter had he found it there because it would make nothing against the Catholick Church but rather for it However till the Councils words be brought I desire to be pardoned if I suspend my Assent to what the Bishop sayes Truly I have my self viewed that Council upon this occasion but cannot finde it there I fear therefore his Lordship hath been misinformed But suppose all were there which he pretends yet would it conclude nothing against Bellarmin who onely sayes that the Pelagian Heresie was never condemn'd in any General Council and the Bishop to disprove him shewes that some who were infected both with the Pelagian Heresie and Nestorianisme also were condemned in the Ephesine Council But how does this contradict Bellarmin Certain Pelagians were indeed condemned in the Ephesine Council but it was not for Pelagianisme but Nestorianisme that they were condemned Had they been condemned for Pelagianisme his Lordship had hit the mark but now he shoots wide He should have observed that Bellarmin denyed onely the condemnation of the Heresie and not of the persons for holding another Heresie wholly distinct from that of Pelagianisme 4. As for St. Augustins not mentioning the Pope when he speaks in the place before cited of the full Authority of the Church which the Bishop tearms an inexpiable omisson if our Doctrine concerning the Popes Authority were true It is easie to answer there was no need of any special mention of the Pope in speaking of the Authority of the Church because his Authority is alwayes chiefly supposed as being Head of the whole Church His Lordships followers might as well quarrel with me because I many times speak of the Authority of the Church without naming the Pope though I do ever both with that great Doctor and all other Catholiques acknowledge and understand the Popes Authority compris'd in that of the Church When my Lord of Canterbury findes in ancient Lawyers and Historians that such and such things were decreed by Act of Parliament without any mention of the King by whose Authority and consent they were decreed would he not think you condemn those Authors also of an inexpiable omission and thence conclude that the King in those dayes had not the prime Authority in Parliament and that whatsoever was said to be decreed by Act of Parliament was not eo ipso understood to be done by Authority of the King 5. We grant what is urged that it is one thing in nature and Religion too to be firme and another to be Fundamental For every thing that is Fundamental is firme but every thing that is firme is not Fundamental Wherefore we distinguisht before in the material
polishes and perfects what was begun before He tells us next he will grant to A. C. that Tradition and Scripture without any vicious Circle do mutually confirm the Authority either of other provided that A. C. will grant his Lordship that they do it not equally This is kindely done But what if A. C. will not be so good natur'd as to grant so much What would the Relatour do in that case Call you this answering or rather making Meanders He 'l grant to A. C. what he cannot deny by reason of its evidence if in return thereof A. C. will acquiesce to that which is so apparently false that he had already refus'd to grant it and in the mean time his Lordship gives no absolute answer to the difficulty 8. To A. C's similitude of the Words and Letters Credential of an Embassador he sayes that the Kings Letters confirm the Embassadors Authority infallibly and the Embassadours word probably onely But to whom do those Letters confirm it infallibly To all that know the Seal and hand sayes the Bishop That 's pretty Suppose then he go to a Forreign King who neither knows Seal nor Hand how will those Letters confirm infallibly the Embassadours authority To this here 's not a word of answer yet this is the question For we now dispute how we come to know infallibly that the Scripture is Gods Word and this is neatly put off by a dexterous Turn 'T is true the Kings Letters may give some moral Testimony to purchase credit to the Embassadour supposing that he who gives himself out for an Embassadour do either by private Letters Informations or other Motives gain so much credit as to merit the repute of a person of worth and honour and therefore not likely to wrong his King and himself in a matter of so high concern Wherefore standing in this similitude the Kings Letters are Letters of Credence because they are written in the usual form of such Letters and deliver'd from the hand of such a person as for other reasons deserves the repute of an honest man so as according to the style of all Royal Courts he is not to be receiv'd as Embassadour without those Letters Where we see to fit this instance to our present purpose that the first Motive inducing the Forreign King to receive either the Person or the Letters are those reasons whereby the King is perswaded the Embassadour is a person of credit to which correspond our Motives of Credibility for receiving the Church as most deserving all credit with us who afterward affirming her self in her Prelates to be Christs Embassadour we receive her as such and give credit to what she sayes or does next she producing also Christs Letters of Credence the holy Scriptures which affirm that her Prelates are his Embassadours we are yet further confirm'd in the whole affair But in case we should so far give way to the Relatours answer in this particular as to yield that the Letters infallibly give credit to all that know the Seal and Hand sure he must say that if this make them infallibly certain they must also know infallibly that Seal and Hand for by knowing them onely probably they can never be infallibly certain of the Letters Now if they know that Seal and Hand infallibly they will also infallibly know that they are true Letters of Credence even independently of the Embassadours assertion Whence it follows that if we can be infallibly certain of any thing corresponding to the Seal and Hand of God in the Scriptures we likewise shall be infallibly certain that they are his Letters whether the Church as Gods Embassadour attest them or not So that this way reduces all to the sole light of Scripture which is against his Lordship and already rejected by him But after all how can one be infallibly certain of that Seal and Hand unless he be as certain of the Embassadours sincerity who brought them otherwise there can be no Infallibity of his Embassie How many wayes are there of counterfeiting both Seal and Hand Nay how many wayes of obtaining them surreptitiously May not the Embassadour himself or some other interessed person procure them by some artificial practice May they not combine with the Secretary of State to impose upon his Majesty by drawing him to sign one thing for another But enough of this it being a matter so obvious to the understanding Let us now follow the Bishop page by page who stomacks very much at this Assertion of A. C. That these Letters the Scriptures do warrant that the people may hear and give credit to those Legates of Christ as to Christ himself Soft sayes the Bishop this is too high a great deal no Legat was ever of so great credit as the King himself Durst I be so bold I might soft it to his Lordship too and tell him he sayes too much a great deal Where I beseech him doth A. C. say in the forecited words that a Legat is of as great credit as the King himself I 'm sure in his words there is no such sentence He averres indeed that we may give credit to those Legats as to Christ the King himself but he sayes not that we may give as much or as high credit to the one as to the other This was the Bishops Turn onely There is therefore a more eminent degree of credit to be given to a King then to his Legate and yet we give credit to the Legate as to the King himself that is we doubt no more of the one then of the other And I would gladly know if his Lordship had heard our Saviour speak in his life time and his Apostles preach after our Saviours death whether he would have doubted of the truth of the Apostles doctrine any more then of the doctrine of Christ himself whose Legates they were To give credit therefore to them as to Christ himself is as undoubtedly to believe them as Christ himself though with a higher degree of respect and regard to Christ then to them And our Saviour affirm'd as much when he said He that hears you hears me Luke 10. 16. Next he tells us that A. C. sayes that company of men which delivers the present Churches Tradition hath in them Divine and Infallible Authority and consequently are worthy of Divine and Infallible Credit sufficient to breed in us Divine and Infallible Faith Has he not here plaid the Divine and Rhetorician both at once What means this Rhetorical repetition thrice together But the worst is A. C's words are misapply'd and miscited by an artificial Turn in the Labyrinth He accuses A. C. of attributing Divine Authority twice over and that absolutely without any restriction or modification to that company of men which delivers the present Churches Tradition and then sayes their Divine Authority and credit is so great that 't is sufficient to breed in us Divine and Infallible Faith Now Reader judge whether A. C. applies
even after our Saviours Ascension had they no promise of Divine Assistance in the delivery of those Truths Thus the promises of Christ come to nothing But if one should ask some of this Bishops Disciples how their Master proves that the promises of Christ are to be limited to Truths necessary to Salvation they must answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ipse dixit just as Pythagoras his Pupils did of old when they were urg'd to give a Reason of their Masters Philosophy For where I pray hath Christ so limited his promises where do the Apostles teach us to understand them with such limitation Neither do we extend them to Truths wholly unnecessary or to curious Truths as the Bishop seems willing to insinuate No We tell him there is a medium a middle sort of Truths between those which are absolutely necessary for all mens Salvation and those which are simply unnecessary or curious We extend these promises to all Truths of this middle sort that is to all such Truths as the Church findes consonant to Catholique Faith and Piety and necessary to be defin'd for the preventing of Heresies Schismes and Dissentions among Christians But I pray observe our Adversaries unparallel'd Subtlety in the close of all Christ saith he hath promis'd that the Spirit should lead his Church into all Truth but he hath no where promis'd that the Church should follow her leader What a rare Acumen is here Then belike to lead and to follow are not Relatives in Protestant Logick But let them take heed 't is to be fear'd they will be found Relatives and that if the Devil chance to lead any of them to Hell for their Heresie and other sins nothing will help but they must infallibly follow him And I wish that all his Lordships party would duly consider this as often as they interpret Scripture after this manner CHAP. 15. Of the Roman Churches Authority ARGUMENT 1. Whether Protestants beside reforming themselves did not condemn the Church of errour in Faith 2. That St. Peter had a larger and higher Power over the Church of Christ then the rest of the Apostles 3. The History or matter of Fact touching the Donatists appealing to the Emperor related and how little it advantages the Bishop or his party 4. St. Gregories Authority concerning the question of Appeals and the Civil Law notably wrested by the Bishop 5. St. Wilfrid Archbishop of York twice appealed to Rome and was twice restor'd to his Bishoprick by vertue of the Popes Authority 6. The African Church alwayes in Communion with the Roman 7. St. Peters placing his Sea at Rome no ground of his Successors Supremacy 8. Why the Emperours for some time ratified the Popes Election 9. Inferiour Clerks onely forbidden by the Canons to appeal to Rome 10. The Pope never accus'd by the Ancients of falsifying the Canons and that he might justly cite the Canons of Sardica as Canons of the Council of Nice BY the precedent Discourse it appears that the Bishops main task for a long time hath been to prove that the General Church may erre and stand in need of Reformation in matters of Faith this being the thing which A. C. most constantly denyes But his Lordship finding the proof of this not so easie by little and little was fain to slide into another question concernig the Power particular Churches have to reform themselves thinking by this to Authorize the pretended Reformation of his particular English Church To this purpose were his many Allegations of the Councils of Carthage Rome Gangres Toledo c. § 24. num 5. which how they succeeded the Reader may easily have perceiv'd by our Answers in the precedent Chapter 1. He goes on with his wonted Art which is to alledge his Adversary with not overmuch sincerity A. C. treating the abovesaid question touching the Power particular Churches have to reform themselves and not denying but in some cases particular Churches may reform what is amiss even in matter of Faith for greater caution addes these express words pag. 58. WHEN THE NEED of Reformation IS ONELY QUESTIONABLE particular Pastours and Churches may not condemn others of Errour in Faith But these words when the need is onely questionable the Bishop thinks fit to leave out to what end but to have some colour to contradict his Adversary and abuse his Reader Let us now see whether his Lordships party be far from judging and condemning other Churches as he seems to make them by his simile A man that lives religiously sayes he doth not by and by sit in judgement and condemn with his mouth all prophane livers But yet while he is silent his very life condemns them First of all Who are these men that live so religiously They who to propagate the Gospel the better marry Wives contrary to the Canons and bring forsooth Scripture for it Non est bonum esse hominem solum and again Numquid non habemus potestatem mulierem sororem circumducendi Who are these men I say that live so religiously They who pull down Monasteries both of Religious men and women They who cast Altars to the ground They who partly banish Priests partly put them to death They who deface the very Tombs of Saints and will not permit them to rest even after they are dead These are the men who live so religiously But who are according to his Lordship prophane Livers They who stick close to St. Peter and his Successors They who for the Catholique Faith endure most willingly Sequestrations Imprisonments Banishments Death it self They in a word who suffer Persecution for Righteousness These in his Lordships opinion are Prophane Livers I return now to the Relatours men that live so religiously Do these men never condemn the Catholique Church but by their vertuous lives which you have seen Surely they condemn her not onely by quite dissonant lives but also by word of mouth by their pens nay by publick and solemn Censures Witness to go no further the Protestant Church of England Artic. 19. where she condemns of errour not onely the Churches of Antioch and Alexandria but even of Rome it self Again Rogers in his allowed Analyse and Comment upon the said Article pronounces that the Church of Rome hath not onely shamefully err'd in matters of Faith but that the whole visible Church may likewise erre from time to time and hath err'd in doctrine as well as conversation Do they not say Artic. 21. that General Councils may erre and have err'd even in things pertaining to God Do they not pronounce of Purgatory Praying to Saints Worship of Images and Reliques c. Artic. 22. of Transubstantiation Artic. 28. and of the Sacrifice of the Mass Artic. 31. respectively that they are fond things vainly invented by men contrary to Gods Word Blasphemous Fables and dangerous Deceits Though it be as clear as the sun at noon-day that both these and many other points deny'd and rejected by Protestants were the doctrine and
of such Superiour Courts to receive and determine Causes of Appeal To prevent as much as might be all occasion of Complaints in this kinde the Council of Sardica provided this expedient that no Ecclesiasticks under the degree of Bishops should usually be allow'd to appeal to Rome which may easily serve to reconcile all seeming contradiction in Authours touching this matter And it must be observ'd that though the Canons prohibit Priests and inferiour Clergy-men to appeal out of their own Province yet they forbid not the Pope to call what causes of theirs he sees necessary before him although indeed in the business of Apiarius the Pope properly speaking did neither call him out of his own Province to be heard by himself nor yet admitted his appeal but remanded him back to his proper Judges with command they should hear his cause once again and do him right in case it were found that any injustice had been used towards him in the former Sentence However Bishops were never prohibited the liberty of appealing to Rome by any Ecclesiastical Canon whatever 'T is true indeed the Africans in their Epistle above-mention'd thought good by way of Argument and Deduction to extend the Canon prohibiting Appeals even unto Bishops causes but the general custome of the Church was ever against them as is manifest by what hath been said 10. The Fathers in the sixth Council of Carthage petition'd I confess the Pope not easily to give ear to those who appeal'd to Rome from Africk especially where the crimes were manifest They except also against the manner of proceeding in the case of Apiarius and some others in which the Popes Legats sent into Africk carried not themselves as Judges but rather as Patrons and Advocates of the appealers Wherefore the Prelates at that Council request his Holiness he would rather please to give power to some in Africk to end such causes then send from Rome such as should give encouragement to Delinquents ne fumosum Typhum Saeculi in Ecclesiam Christi videretur inducere Lest otherwise say they his Holiness should seem to introduce the swelling pride or haughtiness of the world into the Church of Christ which ought to be the School and Mistress of Humility We confess also that in the times of Pope Zosimus Boniface the first and Pope Celestin there was much searching into the Records of the Nicen Council to finde the matter of Appeals therein decided The occasion was this Pope Zosimus to shew his proceedings in that affair to be not onely just but Canonical had by a little mistake the errour probably being rather his Secretaries then his own cited the Council of Nice for his Right touching Appeals whereas it should have been the Council of Sardica in the Canons whereof that Power is clearly allow'd the Pope Now this Council of Sardica being rather an Appendix of the Council of Nice then otherwise and called presently after it consisting likewise for the most part of the same Prelates and assembled for no other end but to confirm the Faith of the Nicen Council and supply some Canons necessary for the Discipline of the Church what matters it that such a mis-citation of one Council for another happened or how does it prejudice the Popes right Did the African Fathers or any other Catholique Authour of succeeding ages ever charge the Pope with falsifying the Canons upon this account as Protestants now do let them shew this if they can CHAP. 16. Of the Title of Vniversal Bishop ARGUMENT 1. The Title of Universal Bishop often given by Antiquity to the Bishops of Rome but never used by them 2. Though the Bishops of Constantinople assum'd the Title yet they never conceiv'd it did exempt them from the Jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome 3. A double signification of the Term Universal Bishop the one Grammatical the other Metaphorical and how they differ 4. St. Gregory condemn'd it onely in the first sense asserting the second expresly to himself 5. Phocas gave no new title to Boniface but onely declar'd that the Title of Universal Bishop did of right belong to the Pope and not to the Bishop of Constantinople 6. St. Irenaeus not rightly translated by the Bishop 7. Ruffinus corrupts the Nicen Canons and the Bishop mistakes Ruffinus 8. The Bishop even with Calvins help cannot clear himself of the Authority of St. Irenaeus 9. St. Epiphanius miscited and mistaken by the Bishop 10. Primacy and Supremacy in the Ecclesiastical sense all one and as necessary in the Church of Christ now as in the Apostles times AFter many windings the Bishop leads us at last into a Trite and beaten way falling upon the Question of John Patriarch of Constantinople so much censur'd by St. Gregory for assuming the title of Universal Bishop an objection satisfi'd a hundred times over yet though never so clear in it self the Bishop still endeavours to overshadow it with difficulties and amuse his Reader To the end therefore all obscurity may be taken away and the truth clearly appear I think it not amiss in the first place to set down the whole matter Historically as I finde it registred in the Monuments of the Church 1. Know then that the Title of Universal or Oecumenical Bishop in Ecclesiastical History was anciently attributed to the Bishop of Rome This no man can deny that reads the Acts of that famous General Council of Chalcedon where in a Letter approv'd by the whole Council and afterward by order of the Bishops there assembled inserted into the Acts thereof the Priests and Deacons of Alexandria style Pope Leo The most Holy and most Blessed Oecumenical or Universal Patriarch of great Rome c. The National Council of Constantinople did the same to Pope Agapet calling him their most holy Lord the Archbishop of old Rome and Oecumenical Patriarch Agapet c. John Bishop of Nicopolis with others styles Pope Hormisda Universi orbis terrarum Patriarcha which is in full sense the same with Oecumenical Constantinus Pogonatus the Emperour in the third Council of Constantinople which is the sixth General calls Leo the Second Oecumenical Pope as witness both Baronius and Binius So likewise did Basil the younger Emperour with Eustathius Bishop of Constantinople as appears by the Acts of their Reconciliation Yea Balsamon himself notwithstanding his known rancour against the Roman Sea is forc'd to acknowledge that the Greeks had an ancient custom to style the Bishop of Rome Oecumenical or Universal POPE nevertheless it cannot be shown they ever made use of this honourable Title but rather contented themselves with that of Servus Servorum Dei as relishing more of Humility and Apostolical meekness Whereas on the contrary the Bishops of Constantinople have for many hundreds of years usurp't it in all their Briefs Letters c. as appears by the Greek Canon Law it self viz. in the Titles of Sisinnius German Constantin Alexius and several other Patriarchs 2. It is further observable that
the ancient Bishops of Constantinople never intended by this usurped Title to deny the Popes Universal Authority even over themselves They never pretended to be either Superiour or Equal to the Roman Bishop in regard of Spiritual Jurisdiction but onely to be next after or under him and above all other Patriarchs For touching that matter the Emperour Justinian had long since by an express Law decreed that the Bishop of Rome was to be held supream Judge of all Ecclesiastical causes and Head of all the Prelats of God And Anthimus even while he usurped the Sea of Constantinople protested obedience to the Bishop of Rome and wrote to all the other Patriarchs that he follow'd in all things the Sea Apostolique Menas also his Competitour made publique profession in the same Council to do the like and to obey in every thing the Sea Apostolique Yea John himself Bishop of Constantinople even whilst he contended so eagerly for the title of Universal Bishop neither could nor durst hinder the Appeal of a certain Priest of Chalcedon a City under the Patriarchal Jurisdiction of Constantinople to Pope Gregory by whom it was admitted the Priest righted and the judgement of that Patriarch formerly given against him reversed by the Popes Sentence which was also accepted as valid by the said Patriarch of Constantinople I adde that St. Gregory himself even whilst he inveigh'd most sharply against the title of Universal Bishop expresly avoucheth that both the Emperour and Bishop of Constantinople professed continually that the Church of Constantinople was subject to the Sea Apostolique And whereas some carp at this Epistle of St. Gregory because it names the Bishop of Constantinople Eusebius there being as they say no Bishop of Constantinople of that name in St. Gregories time it is answer'd that Amularius Fortunatus an approved Authour that wrote but two hundred years after St. Gregories time cites the whole Epistle as Authentique without the name Eusebius So that the subjection of the Sea of Constantinople to that of Rome being a thing so confessed in all antiquity this will seem but a weak objection Lastly it may be observ'd that although the Patriarchs of Constantinople challeng'd the title of Oecumenical or Universal yet when either the Pope or his Legats were with them at Constantinople or any other City they usually forebore it and remitted it wholly to the Pope This appears by the Subscriptions in the third General Council of Constantinople under Constantinus Pogonatus in the next age after St. Gregory where Pope Agatho is styled Universal and the Bishop of Constantinople subscribes himself only George by the mercy of God Bishop of Constantinople 3. Thus we see in brief how matters have passed de facto concerning the title of Universal Bishop Now to answer the Relatours Objection we are to take notice that the term Universal Bishop is capable of two senses the one Grammatical the other Metaphorical In the Grammatical sense it signifies Bishop of the Universal Church and of all Churches in particular even to the exclusion of all others from being properly Bishops and consequently displaceable at his pleasure as being onely his not Christs Officers and receiving Authority from him and not from Christ. In the Metaphorical sense it signifies onely so high and eminent a Dignity above all other Bishops throughout the whole Church that though he who is stiled Universal Bishop hath a real and true Superintendency Jurisdiction and Authority over all other Bishops yet that they be as truly and properly Bishops in their respective Provinces and Diocesses as he himself For who doubts but a meer Diocesan Bishop is as truly a Bishop and chief Officer of Christ in his Diocess as an Archbishop Metropolitan Primate or Patriarch in their several Districts though it cannot be deny'd but every one of these have respectively true Ecclesiastical Authority over him The like is visible in the Subordination of different Tribunals in the Commonwealth where the Inferiour Judge is as truly an Officer of the State and a Magistrate as the Superiour and yet the Inferiour is subject to the Superiour and must be content in case of Appeals to have both the Causes of his Court and himself too judged by the Superiour when Justice shall require it 4. This being clear'd 't is evident that St. Gregory when he inveighs against the title of Universal Bishop takes it in the Literal and Grammatical sense in which we confess it contains a capital Errour and grand Heresie destructive of the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy and Christs Institution and therefore not undeservedly censur'd by the Holy Zeal of St. Gregory as Monstrous Blasphemous and in some sort Antichristian I say 't is evident out of St. Gregory himself even in those Epistles cited by the Bishop that he takes the word in the literal and worst sense when he declaims so vehemently against it For he sayes expresly If there be one who is UNIVERSAL Bishop all the rest are no more Bishops So that in St. Gregories meaning whoever assumes to himself the title of Universal doth not content himself as all the Stewards of Christs Family ought to do viz. in being a Servant over his Fellow Servants but pretends in effect to be himself their Master and to make them all his own Servants receiving and holding their respective Charges not from their true Master Jesus Christ but from him But some perhaps will object The Bishop of Constantinople did not actually aspire to such a height of pride nay 't is scarce credible he either did or could pretend to make himself the onely Bishop in Christendome degrading as it were all others from the degree of Bishops I answer admit he did not pretend to this yet seeing he did so unwarrantably usurp a Title which in the best sense could not possibly belong to him but being construed in the other to which it is very liable it must needs contain so poysonous and prodigious an Arrogance that what ever his actual pretensions might be St. Gregory had just reason both to suspect and smartly rebuke him as aiming thereat Just as if a Subject of the King of Spain for instance should contrary to the Kings consent take upon him the Title of Vice-Roy of Naples or Sicily though perhaps he really intended no more yet doubtlesse he would be soon suspected nay charged with a trayterous designe of making himself absolute King But as for the Metaphorical signification of the word which allows all other inferious Bishops to be true Bishops and to have true Episcopal Jurisdiction as Officers ordained by Christ though subordinate to the Popes Supream Authority St. Gregory was so far from thinking it Blasphemous or Antichristian pride that though indeed he did not claim the Title even in this sense yet was it the constant practise both of his Predecessors and himself to exercise the substance of it that is Universal Jurisdiction and Authority over all other Bishops and Patriarchs throughout
Pope as he is Pope or in respect of that Supereminent Authority which belongs to him as Saint Peters Successour but onely compares him with another private Bishop in respect of meer Character or power of a Bishop as Bishop onely And as he doth not de facto speak of the Pope as Successour of St. Peter so is it certain that de jure he could not speak any thing to the prejudice of that part of the Bishop of Rome's Authority without contradicting and condemning himself not onely in his Epistle to Pope Damasus already cited where he professeth that to be out of the Popes Communion is to be an Alien from the Church of Christ but also in his Commentaries on the 13. Psalm where he calls St. Peter Head of the Church and Epist. ad Demetriad Virg. where he stiles the Pope Successour of the Apostolick Chair and speaks to the same purpose in divers other places of his works But now the Bishop to give a home-blow as he imagin'd to the Popes Authority over the whole Church pretends to bring a great and undoubted Rule given by Optatus who tells us the Church is in the Commonwealth not the Commonwealth in the Church whence he positively concludes it impossible that the Government of the Church should be Monarchical For saith he no Emperour or King will endure another King within his Dominions to be greater then himself since the very enduring it makes him that endures it upon the matter no Monarch But the force of this Argument will presently vanish if we but consider that these two Kingdoms are of different natures the one Spiritual the other Temporal the one exercis'd onely in such things as concern the Worship of God and the Eternal Salvation of Souls the other in affairs that concern this world alone and consequently do not of their own nature hinder but help one another where they are rightly administred Neither must it come under debate whether the administration of the spiritual Monarchy ought to be endur'd or not seeing Christ hath so ordain'd it nor would the Relatour I suppose have urg'd this argument had he well reflected on the person of our Saviour who as the Bishop himself would not deny was whilst he lived on earth most truly and properly the visible Monarch of the whole Church his Kingdom whether the Kings of the earth would endure it or not Again is it not in a manner the same thing in regard of Temporal Kings to have had the Apostles Universal Governours over all Christians as if some one had been a Monarch or chief amongst them and yet the Bishop cannot in his own principles deny but Temporal Kings were bound to endure this and did actually endure it without unkinging themselves thereby Nay is it not as prejudicial to their Temporal Crowns Titles and Prerogatives to have all their people together with themselves subject to the decrees of a lawful General Council which the Bishop denyes not as to be subject to the Decrees of some one chief Bishop 3. Lastly who sees not that the force of this Argument is utterly broken by the daily experience we have of the contrary to what our Adversary pretends For instance do not the Two great Christian Kings of France and Spain endure it Nay do's not all the world see that they do not onely endure it but maintain the Authority and Government of such a Spiritual Monarch as we speak of in the very midst of their Dominions and is it not evident they prosper so well under it that it would be no less then Dotage to contend that the enduring it is a Diminution of their Majesty Our Adversaries reflection upon this particular by way of Answer is not onely injurious to those Two great Monarchs but destructive of his own Argument For he tells us the Popes power is of little esteem in the Kingdoms of these Two Catholique Princes further then to serve their own turns of him which they do saith he to their great advantage Thus what the two great Catholique Princes of Christendom profess to do upon the Account of Faith and Conscience the Relatour hath the confidence to tell us they do it meerly on the score of policy and for temporal ends though he plainly contradicts himself in this assertion since he told us but just now the enduring such a Monarchy made him that endur'd it no Monarch You see at once both his Civility towards Christian Princes and his Constancy to himself Moreover I wonder the Relatour could not see that this Argument The Church is within the Commonwealth ergo Subordinate unto it had it any force would conclude as much against the Aristocratical Government of the Church for which he so much pleads as the Monarchical For how I pray could the Bishops of so many different Kingdoms and States when the good of the Church did necessarily require it Convene in a General Councel or authoritatively Declare what ought to be believ'd when matters of Faith were question'd or how should they otherwise then precariously cause their Decisions to be receiv'd through the whole Church if either there were no Supream Spiritual Governour at all or he bound as it were to ask Princes leave to do what belongs to his Office Is not a General Council as much within the Commonwealth as the Pope If therefore the Pope in the administration of his Office be any way subject de jure to the Authority of Temporal Princes how can a General Council be absolute and independent of the same Authority in the execution of theirs Thus you see how by impugning the Monarchical Government of Christs Church he in effect overthrows all Church-Government whatsoever even that which himself would seem to approve It remains therefore fully prov'd that the external Government of the Church on earth is Monarchical not purely and absolutely but mixed as hath been already declar'd Neither do we stile the Pope Monarch of the Church but the Deputy or Vicar General of Christ that is his Chief Bishop by whom he governs his Church in chief He is neither King nor Lord of the Church but the Chief-Servant of it a Steward of Christs Family yea a Fellow-Servant with other Bishops to one and the same Master Yet the Care of the whole Family is committed to him and but part of it to other Bishops who govern by Commission from Christ with him but under him 4. This duly consider'd what the Relatour objects out of the Council of Antioch St. Cyprian and Bellarmin for the power of Bishops comes just to nothing For we acknowledge Bishops to have a portion jure Divino in the Government of Christs Flock They are no less Chief Officers of Christ then the Pope though not in all respects equal to him or so absolute as to govern without dependance on him And it seems strange the Bishop should attempt to prove out of Bellarmin that the Government of the Church Militant is not Monarchical in the sense
of the sayd Infallibility shee may euer bee aseuredly preseru'd in the Beleefe and Profession of the true Fayth But the principall thing the Bishop would haue vs consider here is that Jnfallibility resides according to power and Right of Authority in the whole Church and in a Generall Council only by power deputed To which purpose hec cites St. Austin Petrus personam Ecclesiae Sustinet et huic datae sunt claues quum Petro datae Peter sayes hee beares the person of the Catholique Church and to her were the Keyes giuen when they were giuen to Peter I answer there is a twofold representing or bearning the person of an other to bee obseru'd The one Parabolicall or by way of meere Figure and supposition only Thus Agar Abrahams bondwoman Galat. 4. 25. 26. represents the nation or people of the Iewes yet liuing vnder the bondage of the Mosaicall law and Mount-Sion or Hierusalem the Churh of God The other Historicall and Reall viz. when the person representing has right or relation aparterei in and towards the thing represented by vertue whereof it doth in the rust and and necessary interpretation of Reason beare the person or stand for the thing represented Now St. Peter Sustained the person of the Church in this latter sense I meane Historicè non Parabolicè really and in verity of fact not in Figure or Parabolicall supposition only hee beeing such a principall and cheife member of the Church as did ratione officij virtually and truly containe in himselfe the fullness of Ecclesiasticall Power in the same manner as a King receiues the keyes of a town whereof hee takes possession for himselfe though he representeth the whole kingdome and receiues the keyes for the good thereof Thus Isay St. Peter receiu'd the keyes for himselfe as hee was Head of the Church though that Reception were indeed ordain'd for the good of the whole Church To receiue a thing in this manner is not to receiue it in the others right but in his own not withstanding it bee finally meant for the good of the other This is so cleere euen to common sense that wee haue no need of turning ouer many Classique Authours to proue it wherfore the example of an Attorney taking possession of land for a Purchaser and of one who hauing a Proxy receiues a woman with the Ceremonies of Marriage in the name of an other are not to the purpose because in such cases the person of an other is Sustain'd only Parabolicè or by way of voluntary supposition pro tempore as when a Legate receiues the keyes of a town meerly as substitute for and in the name of his King But in our case the keyes were receiued Historicè and in way of reall propriety as by the King himselfe Head of the Common-wealth so by St. Peter Head of the Church This Answer is grounded in St. Austin himselfe who teaches St. Peters receiuing the souereign Authority of the gouerning the whole Church signified hero by the keyes as hee was a Figure of the Church and represented the person of the Church to haue been propter Primatum c. by reason of the PRIMACY which hee had amongst the Apostles The like hee hath in other places So cleerly does hee explicate his own meaning and confirm the answer wee haue giuen to the text the Bishop brings Why therfore doth the Relatour labour in vayne to wrest the Keyes out of St. Peters hands and to bestow them hee knows not where They must remaine where Christ has left them St Peter and his successours know best how to vse them and how to turn them in their proper wards as the Bishop speaks In his Third Consideration hee supposes that though a Generall Council bee granted lyable to errour yet so long as the whole Catholique Church Diffusiue bee exempt from it in the Prime Foundations of Fayth absolutely necessary to saluation there is still a sufficient Meanes to preserue and reduce vnity and to preuent all inconueniences that vsually trouble the Church One of the greatest inconueniences that can possibly fall vpon the Church is errour in fayth which vpon supposition that a Generall Council may erre in such matters does vnauoydably befall the whole Church as wee haue already shew'n and that without any hopes of euer beeing certainly cleer'd of it For as one Generall Council fell into Errour so may an other and a third and a fourth etc. Vnless therfore Generall Councils bee granted infallible in matters of Fayth where is the Bishops remedy against Jnconueniences How shall the Church bee freed from Perplexity How shall vnity bee preseru'd or reducd Hee tells vs the Church vpon discouery of the errour of a former Council may represent herselfe in an other body or Council and take order for what was concluded amiss But who shall warrant that the remedy shall not proue as bad as the disease or perhaps worse who shall secure vs that the second Council shall rightly condemne the supposed errour of the first or if it happen so shall not broach two other for that one and thereby bee an occasion of fresh Jnconueniences Perplexities Contentions in and to the Church Againe how shall the whole Church vpon euidence found of the miscarriage of a Generall Council represent her selfe in an other body must euery particular member of the Church first except against the sayd errours and concurre to the election and holding of an other Council That will neuer happen For in such a multitude very many will bee of the same minde with the precedent representatiue of the Church If not all but some part only of the Churches members bee conuinced of the pretended errour and would call an other Council to 〈◊〉 it then not the whole Church in Generall but only a part of it should take vpon them to remedy the abuses of a Generall Council which is absurd Moreouer if the power of calling Generall Councils reside only in the whole Church Diffusiuely taken as the Bishop here supposeth what likelyhood is there that there should euer bee such a Council called it beeing not to bee done but by the generall consent of all Christians whose interests are so diuided and for the most part so repugnant to each other that it cannot bee doubted but when one Nation or Countrie is willing to haue a Generall Council called some other will bee found as vnwilling When will all Christians thinke you agree that both Protestants Catholiques Grecians Lutherans and all other Sectaries should meete in Councill and haue equall power and libertie to vote there which if they haue not who can expect that the excluded party will hold it a Generall Council and thinke themselues bound to submitt to it The Bishop tells vs that the Church heeretofore vsed to reforme the errours of former Councils by calling and representing her selfe in a new Councill and that this is euident in the case at Ariminum and the second of Ephesus and in
altogether vnsuspected themselues to be warping in religion he had erroneously and scandalously deliuer'd to the preiudice of Catholique verity As to any matter of abuse in this kinde crept in amongst the ignorant wee haue already shew'n how carefull the Council of Trent was to prouide against and preuent all inconueniences that could reasonably be fore seen or feared And if notwithstanding such diligence on the Churches part there happen something now and then to be amiss eyther through the infirmity of some particular persons or the negligence of others yet neyther is the doctrine or practice of the Church iustly to be blam'd for it nor yet the pious and more discrect deuotion of the rest for this reason to be discountenanced much less prohibited or forbiden Otherwise for the like pretended reason of Abuse and Scandall wee might be thought to stand oblig'd to blott out of the 〈◊〉 those words concerning our Saniour that he sitts at the right hand of God and diuerse Texts out of the Bible it 〈◊〉 Why because that by them ignorant and ill-disposed people haue been formerly and may be still induc'd to thinke that God the Father is of a Bodily Shape and hath a right hand and a left as men haue and likewise to forme to themselues many other false and dangerous conceptions of God Abuses of this nature if any be and whensoeuer they happen must be redressed by better instruction and information but the pious and lawfull custome of the Church must not therefore be abolish'd and quite taken away 11. As for what Llamas a Spanish Authour relates of the people of Asturias Cantabria and Gallicia who were so addicted to their old worm-eaten and ill-fashioned Images that when the Bishops of those Prouinces commanded new ones and bandsomer to be sett vp in their stead they begg'd euen with teares to haue their old ones still J confess there might be some indiscretion in their proceeding but J see noe ground the Bishop hath to taxe them of 〈◊〉 For the people did not cry after the Bishops officers when they remou'd these old Jmages why doe you take away our Gods giue vs our Gods againe or the like as Jdolaters would haue done as well as Laban Genes 31. 30. when he reprehended Iacob for stealing away his Gods Beside what euer was amiss in this kinde as the same Authour testifieth was by a little intruction of their Pastours quickly amended though the Bishop a man it seems of very hard beleefe will not thinke so But why should his Lordship make such difficulty to beleeue what a graue Author reports of his own knowledge As to what he further inferrs from the words of Llamas namely that the Jmages of Christ and his Saynts as they represent their Exemplars haue Diuinity in them and that wee may 〈◊〉 things of them and put trust in them in that regard my answer is the Bishop always shews himselfe ouer ready to expound our Authors in the worst sense euen many times where there is no rationall pretense This Author sufficiently shews he could haue no such meaning as the Bishop imputes to him what euer his words may seeme to import For in the very place cited by the Bishop he cleerly teacheth that wee ought to worship Jmages according to the Prescript of the Council of 〈◊〉 and how carefull that Council was that all might be duly instructed in this matter and no occasion left euen for the most ignorant and weake to offend by conceiuing or beleeuing any Diuine Power to be in the Jmages or by puting trust in them or crauin any thing of them appeares by the words of the Council already cited and by the Relatours own acknowledgement who stiles the Fathers religiously carefull in that respect Adde hereunto the Prouiso which this Author giues in the same chapter which is that wee ought to aske nothing of the Saynts no not of our B. Lady her selfe otherwise then by desiring them to beg it for vs at Gods hand and that to doe otherwise that is to aske any thing of them as if they were Authors of it or could of themselues alone giue or grant vs the good things wee aske were Jdolatrie Thus therfore wee hope this Author Llamas his intention and true meaning is cleer'd of what the Bishop imputes to him but it will not be amiss to take notice also how weakely the Bishops illation is made out of the sayd Authors words Because Llamas writes that the Images of Christ are not to be 〈◊〉 as if there were Diuinity in them as they are materiall things made by art but only as they represent Christ and the Saynts the Relatour inferrs thus So then belike according to the Diuinity of this Casuist a man may worship Images AND ASKE OF THEM AND PVT TRVST IN THEM as they represent Christ and his Saynts But what consequence is this How does it follow that wee may aske of Images and put our trust in them as they represent Christ and his Saynts because wee may worship them as they represent Christ and his Saynts wee many times loue and reuerence a picture for the person it represents and yet noe body is so foolish as to aske any thing of it as it represents that person Wee shew a 〈◊〉 respect to the chaire of state and chamber of Presence for the kings sake yet wee neither make to them any ciuill inuocation nor place confidence in them as they relate to the king Why therfore must it follow that wee may call vpon pictures or Jmages as they represent our Sauiour or the Saints because they may be honour'd or worshiped as they doe represent them Nor is it less ridiculous what the Bishop adds in pursuance of his discourse namely his resoluing this proposition of Llamas The Images of Christ and the Saynts are to be worshiped not as if there were any Diuinity in them as they are materiall things made by arte but as they represent Christ and his Saynts into this other The Images of Christ and his Saynts as they represent their Exemplars haue Deity or Diuinity in them making them both to signifie the same thing For why might he not as well haue resolu'd this proposition The kings picture is to be honour'd not as if there were Souereign Authority in it as it is a materiall thing made by arte but as it represents the king into this other The kings picture as it represents its Exemplar hath Souereign Authority in it The Bishop here surely giues the Reader more cause to suspect his iudgement touching the interpretation of Llamas then vpon his interpretation of him to taxe our Church of Idolatric I conclude it therfore most certain and indubitable that Llamas in the wordes cited by the Relatour intended noe more then to signifie that all worship done to Jmages was Relatiue and not Absolute which is to say that it was exhibited to them not for their own but for their exemplars sake which they represent