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A12484 Of the author and substance of the protestant church and religion two bookes. Written first in Latin by R.S. Doctour of Diuinity, and now reuiewed by the author, and translated into English by VV. Bas.; De auctore et essentia Protestanticae Ecclesiae et religionis libri duo. English Smith, Richard, 1566-1655.; Bas., W. 1621 (1621) STC 22812; ESTC S117611 239,031 514

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the Pope is that Antichrist wherof S. Paul speaketh 5. The third argument they wring out of the 12. Apocal. where it is sayd that the dragon shall cause the woman that is the Church to fly into the wildernesse This also is a fallacy not vnlike to the former First because it is more vnknowne that the Protestant church is the woman or the true church or the Pope that Dragon or the Popery the desert hē that Protestants were heretofor amongst Papists Againe there is no speach at all that the Church shold be so long tyme and so secret as Protestants say their church was in Popery Yea the tyme which this woman was to abide in the wildernesse is set downe to be 1260 dayes or as it is sayd cap. 20. a small tyme. And as Luther vpon Daniel tom 4. fol 265. and Bullinger conc 46. in Apocal. write Almost all Doctours attribute but 3. yeares and halfe to the persecution of Antichrist Wherefore these kind of testimonies by which Protestants make shew to proue that their Church was heretofore in Popery are but as S. Augustin speaketh of the like testimonies vsed by Donatists De vnit c. 19.23 Slender snares of delayes wherewith you vnderprop an euill cause by delaying But we demaund some manifest testimony Therefore bring out some manifest produce some thing that needeth no interpreter or if you cannot performe that which so iustly we demaund of you belieue truth hold your peace sleep a nap and after waken to saluation 6. Their 4. Sophisme they draw out of reason in this sort As soone as Protestancy was publikly preached many came out of Popery and followed it Therefore there were who in Popery did belieue it This fallacy is nothing better then the former For if it be reduced to a Syllogisme it will be found to rely vpon this principle If any in a company do follow the preaching of a new doctrine there were some therin that before tym belieued it which principle is manifestly false For neuer any heretiks preached whome some vnsetled Christians did not follow and yet who will say that there was neuer any heresy preached which before had not byn belieued of some Christians Epist Monitor pag. 107. Whitak cont 2. q. 5. c. 6. Pless de Eccles c. 11. Sadeel Refutat Posnan c. 10. Besides Protestants account it for a wonderfull miracle that at the beginning so many Papists came out of Popery vnto them but it had byn no shadow of miracle if before they had byn Protestāts Morouer the number of Papists forsaking Popery argueth not that before tymes they had byn Protestants but that they were vnsetled Papists who as the Scripture speaketh were carryed about with euery wind of doctrine Ephes 4. and that protestancy is a voluptuous and licentius doctrine because as Caluin sayth deceitfull doctrines do soone bewray themselues whiles they are admitted of all men with gentle cares Praef. Inst and are heard of the world applauding thereto 7. Of all which hath byn sayd in this and the former chapter I frame my fift demonstration in this manner If the Protestant Church and Religion were no where before Luther arose it was not all But before him it was no wher Therfore not at all And by him it got to be some where Therefore by him it got to be The minor is manifest by all that hath byn sayd in the former chapter The case of the protestant Church before Luther And the maior is euident by it selfe For no company of men much lesse a Catholike or vniuersall Church can be and be no where And these 5. demonstrations which hitherto we haue made haue byn taken out of the state wherein the Protestants confesse their Church to haue byn before Luther arose For by them hath beene shewed that before him according to the most free most frequent and most euident confessions of the famousest Protestants it had no (a) Cap. 8. Pastours to gouerne no (b) Cap. 3. sheep to be gouerned no (c) Cap. 5. appearance to be seene no (d) Cap. 9. place to abide no (e) Cap. 1. being to be What then could it be but a fiction of lying men or an imagination of phrantike men vainely deuised vntruly auouched and foundly belieued That all the Protestants first heard of had beene in former tymes Papists CHAP. XI THE 6. demōstratiō for to proue Luther to haue bin the Author of Protestācie shall be grounded vpon that all Protestāts who were first heard of had bin al Papists before Luther began to teach Luther before a Papist Of himselfe thus writeth Luther Prefat in tom 1. Before all things I request the godly reader that he read all with iudgement and consider that I was once a monck and a most madde Papist when I began this cause so druncken and drowned in Papistry that I was most ready to kill all if I had bin able c. And in psalm 45 tom 3. fol. 441 I was baptised in the Popes house I was catechised c And in psalm 51. fol 476 I wholy liued so in trust of my iustices as if any had then ●aught that which I now teach I thinck I should haue torne him with my teeth And in cap. 1 Galat. tom 5. fol. 291 If any at anytime surely I before the light of the gospell did thinck piously and was zealous for Popish lawes and traditions of Fathers and did in great earnestnes vrge and defend them as holy and the obseruation of them as necessary to saluation I purely adored the Pope and what soeuer I did I did of a simple heart a good zeale and to the glory of God The authority of the Pope was so great with me that I iudged it a crime worthy of eternall damnation to dissent from him and would haue subministred with fire and sword for the defence of the Popes authority 2. Melancthon who as Caluin writeth was a principall Minister of God in doing great matters and was indeed Luthers chiefest instrument in his dispute of Matrimony tom 2. Luther fol. vlt. giueth God thāckes Melancthon first a Papist that he was deliuered out of the kingdome of Antichrist and Poposh errors and sayth as reporteth Scusselburg tom 13. Catal. Haer. pag. 625. of himselfe I moued not these controuersies but fell into them after they were moued which being many and not explicated I began to consider them with a desire of truth And the Saxonicall Ministers in the Cōference of Alburg Scrip. 7. pag. 349. write that Melancthon of his owne accord acknowledged himselfe a scholler of Luther yea the whole Vniuersity of Witterberg The Vniuersity of Witterberg first Papist out of which almost al Luthers first champions came was in former times Popish as appeareth by their epistle ad Milititium tom 1. Lutheri fol. 205. where thus they write VVe are so affected both to all the Christian Religion and the sea Apostolike and holy Church of Rome that if we