or perhappes the solemne cuppe councell in Martin Luthers house at Wittemberg as I am to defend the couÌ„cel of Nice Ephesus or LateranuÌ„ Well M. Nowell neither shall you at this tyme bring furthe youre Confession of Augspurg or the solemne conclusion agreed vpon at Martin Luthers house nor I wil alleage Howe S. AusteÌ„ renounced the auctoritie of the Nicene councell either the councell of Nice Ephesus or Lateranum but the scriptures c. then I saie you coulde proue hereby that I who trusting vppon the goodnesse of the cause quit for the tyme the alleaging of the councelles were of the minde that the auctoritye of the councelles made nothing for the decision of controuersies And that this was the meaning of S. Augustine to relinquishe onelye for that present tyme the auctoritie of the councell off Nice that the heretike might forsake his schismaticall councell not that he estemed either the councell of Nice or anie other laufull generall councell so lightly as yow suppose bothe this aduerbe nunc nowe whose nature is to limite and restreine whiche yowe fearing lest it woulde marre all the marcket and perceiuing that it woulde be harde to deceiue the learnedersorte with this place alleaged trulie in A lie by omission 65. the latine but left owt in the englishe thinking that youre parte shoulde be well enough plaied if yowe were able to blinde the ignorant and vnlearned bothe dothe this I saie argue the meaning of S. Austen to be as I saie and not as yow pretende and also that he dothe euerie where against the Donatistes alleage Concilium plaenarium totius orbis the Lib. 1. de baptis contra Donat. cap. 18. Epist 118. ad Ianuar. fo 72. a. 3. S. Austen beelied â—â— Howe the scripture is iudge and howe it is not iudge of aâ— controuersies full councell of all the world and saieth of councelles quorum est in ecclesia saluberima auctoritas whose auctoritie is in the churche moste wholesome It is not to be forgotten in this place that where S. Austen calleth the scripture by the name of a witnes yowe conclude that he calleth the scripture iudge Which if he had done might easelie haue bene answered to be true also when the churche hathe declared what the scripture ment As the lawes of all countries are the iudges of suche controuersies as rise there but not the iudges alone because they be subiecte to wrangling interpretations and therefore requier an other iudge to iudge their meaning But seing S. Austen calleth not the scripture iudge but witnes yowe haue delt vntrulie by concluding more vpon his wordes then is in them To the places brought here by yowe owt of Chrisostome Fol. 72. â— â–ª I answere that we saie as muche in the commendation of holie scripture as he doeth For none of those places make holie scripture the onelie sufficient triall of all controuersies Therefore where as they saie we muste beleue scripture rather then men that if we woulde beleue them we shoulde fall in to no errours we graunte it to be true in scripture as it is deliuered by the fathers and expounded by the church For the first place of S. Hierom he there reiected an allegation of vncerteine auctoritie commonly called ApocriphuÌ„ about the person of that Zachary which was slaine betwene Matth. 23. the teÌ„ple and the altar which because he knewe was not receiued by vniuersall tradition there remained no other grounde of prouing it but by scripture where sith it was not he might well saie it is as easely contemned as proued M. Nowelles ignorance in the writâ—nges off the fathers The laste place non adferamus stateras dolosas c. is not S. Hieromes as yow trusting ouer much Gratianus to whom belike yow haue recourse for youre auctorities owt of the doctours to auoide either furder paine either elles because yow delight not muche in suche companie reporte it here Lib. 2. de baptis cap. 6. to be It is taken owt of S. Austin M. Nowell a token that manie a man speaketh to vse the olde Englishe prouerbe of Robin hood that neuer shot in his bow and maketh nothing against me who wishe you would in dede way thinges with lesse deceitefull waightes of scripture theÌ„ you doe The places here noted owt of S. Austen and Chrisostom B. 14. touching the conference of one place of scripture with an other of the darcke and obscure with the clere and light are brought to proue conference to be good and proffitable which we denie not But that which we denie and therfore yow shoulde haue proued neither those places nor anie other that yow haue alleaged doe proue First that allwaies suche conference can assure vs of the true meaning of the scripture secondarily that in this conferring of places there is no difficultie varietie or vncerteintie which we affirme and proue to be because to one man to the Lutheran it semeth that hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie and verbum caro factum est the word is made flesh are places of like phrase and speache to yow M. Nowell it semeth that Ego sum vitis vera I am a true vyne is like to this This is my bodie Why yow will saie I haue proued this by Chrisostome who saieth Ad ipsum diuinae scripturae scopum accedamus quae Chrisost in 2. cap. Gen. Homil 13. seipsam interpretatur and againe Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Let vs come to the marcke of the holie scripture whiche expoundeth it selfe The holie scripture expouÌ„deth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre I knowe that these be Chrisostomes wordes I knowe that they make nothing for your purpose I knowe and be it knowen to all men that they are most shamefully by yowe abused and mangled For whereas Chrisostome confuting the errour of those that grounding them selues vpon this place of Genesis inspirauit in faciem eius Gen. 2. spiraculum vitae and he breathed vpon his face the breathe of life mainteined that the soule of man was off the same essence withe God where I saie Chrisostome specially in this pointe saieth that the scripture expoundeth it selfe you make him generally to saye that the scripture dothe so in all doubtes The whiche to persuade the better whereas the laste of those two sentences of Chrisostome by yowe alleaged hathe thus quamuis sacra scriptura quum nos tale Chrisostomes wordes mangled by M. Nowell quiddam docere vult seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Allthough the holye scripture when it wyll teache vs anye suche thinge expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre yowe mangling the sentence cutt awaie the middle wordes quum nos tale quiddam docere vult when it will teache vs anie such thing lest by those wordes the reader might vnderstande that Chrisostome gaue there no general rule but spake onely of that special pointe
the lacke of his visible presence by appointing as in well one in his steede to the behooffe of the whole churche as of particuler churches For this one heade lest any man might cauill that he might erre and drawe all after Lucae 22. him Christ him selfe prayed saieng in the gospell to Peter whome he left in his place to be that heade I haue praied for the that thy faithe maye not faile We may not doubte therfore but that he obteined his petition We haue no cause to doubte considering that hetherto all other apostolicall seates and moste famouse churches of the worlde as Antioche Alexandria Hierusalem Constantinople hauing perniciously erred in the faithe and being quite ouerthrowen this onley seate of the chiefe heade of Christes churche the churche of Rome I meane against so manie wicked Emperours openly assaulting it so many De vtilit credendi ad Hoaorat Cap. 17. subtile heretikes craftily vndermining it and barcking rounde about it as S. Austen saieth so manie meanes inuented to bring it to defende euill and perniciouse doctrine hathe in all these difficulties continued allwaies and by goddes grace euer shall continue pure and vnspotted Beside this to stoppe all youre starting holes at once nowe for hereafter yow can not saye that by this reason of mine whereby I go about vpon the necessitie of one heade in euerie diocesse to proue the like ouer the whole churche it shoulde folowe aswell that there ought to be ouer all the kingdomes of the worlde one chiefe king or emperour because as I saide once before all the kingdomes in the worlde meete not together by goddes ordinaunce in one kingdome as all the churches doe in one churche Which if they did off necessitie they shoulde being one bodye haue one heade And therfore in this case I Lib. de vnitate eccles Cap. 12 maie saye with S. Austen Nèque enim quia in orbem terarrum plerunque regna diuiduntur ideo Christiana vnitas diuiditur Neither because kingdomes for the moste parte be diuided through the worlde therefore is Christian vnitie diuided also And yeat this is the thing that M. Nowell laboureth to bring to passe that because there be many kingdomes and consequently many kinges there shoulde be many churches and so many rulers of the churche or goddes apointment of gouerning the worlde by many kinges made frustrate and so no mo kingdomes then there be churches Thus I haue showed yow M. Nowell howe this place of S. Cyprian maketh for my purpose referring those wordes Neque vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos ad tempus iudex c. Neither that there is one prieste and one iudge acknowledged in the churche in the steede of Christe for the time to the proufe of the necessitie of one heade ouer the whole churche by an ineuitable consequent taken from S. Cyprians wordes not as directly ment of the pope as you laboure to make men beleue spending manie wordes here in vaine to proue that these wordes shoulde be spoken of S. Cyprian him selfe To all the which long processe of youres I will then make answere when I shall vse the place to suche purpose as you imagine I doe Although this I will aduertise you of by the way that the case is not altogether so clere as you take it to be that this place of S. Cyprian is only to be taken as spoken of him selfe and not of Cornelius as to him that shall considre that no particuler bishop is able to staye schismes so conueniently whereas the bishoppes of diuerse prouinces be of equall auctoritie as that one bishop that hathe auctoritie ouer the whole nombre of bishoppes it can not but be manifest And yeat maie euerie man see in this place that the one bishopp of whome S. Cyprian speaketh should be suche as being obeied there shoulde be no schismes in Christes church Which can be vnderstande of no one particuler bishop but of some such one as because his auctoritie is vniuersal it will folowe that the obeing of him shall procure to the whole churche to the colleage of priestes quietnes and vnitie Againe when S. Cyprian handling of purpose this argument of the vnitie off the church telleth vs how the the diuel haleth men to heresies and schismes because they go not to the beginning of the truthe seeke not out the heade obserue not the heauenly maisters teaching and addeth immediatly that our lorde saide to Peter Thow arte Peter c. as though he woulde teache * Not as M. Iuell iuglgeth with this place in 3. his printed sermoÌ„ vs therby Matth. 18. to come to the beginning of the truthe to finde out the heade to kepe the teaching of Christ that he disposed by his auctoritie that vnitie shoulde begin of one Last of all that he holdeth not the faithe that holdeth not the vnitie of this churche that began of Petre ought not these wordes vttred to teache vs to auoide schismes be a rule to directe vs to S. Cyprians meaning in this place where he saieth that heresies and schismes rise because one iudge in the church in the stede of Christe is not obeied But leauing the defence of this interpretation to those that haue so alleaged and vnderstode the place who are able it is not to be doubted to giue good reason of their doinges I will procede to that which foloweth Concerning the Apologie wherewith I founde faulte for saing that Christe in the gouernement of his churche â—ol 38. b. 7 vseth not the ministerye off anye one generall heade c which you labour here to defende I saie that it hathe not onely committed this faulte in denieng this maner off gouernement in Christes churche the contrarie whereof S. Cyprians wordes by a necessary consequent importe but is blasphemouse also against Christe whose ordonaunce it is to haue one heade to gouerne in his steade the churche by affirming so peremptorily that it is not possible for anye man alone to be hable to susteine that office To the which two if I shoulde adde this beside that it was moste foolishely vttred first of the Apologie and nowe moste impudently defended by yow it might perhappes moue Not impossible for one man alone to gouerne the churche vnder Christe youre cholere a litle but yeat M. Nowell it is true For what man that had but a cromme of witt in his heade woulde call that a thing impossible to be done which him selfe for the space of 900. yeares can not denie to haue bene done Denye if you can that thus manie yeares the whole worlde hathe not in spirituall matters obeyed one heade the B. of Rome I presse you not nowe with the first six hundred yeares before in the which the ecclesiasticall histories and writinges of the fathers make moste euident mention that this auctoritie of one generall heade was thorough out the whole worlde acknowledged of all men To this one heade appellations were made from all partes of
nombre of priestes there ought to be one chiefe ruler chosen as though only Petre had bene a bishop and the other apostles pore priestes and no more Where is nowe the equalitie that you are wont to obiect to vs of the Apostles with Petre Who maketh the Apostles more inferiour to Peter you or we We saie the Apostles all of them were bishoppes in one place or other you make youre count that they were only inferiour priestes Now being all of them bishoppes and Peter by youre confession their heade Who seeth not that the ordre planted by Christe in his church is that there be one bishop for the pacifieng of schismes ouer the rest Againe if 12. persones so well instructed by the spirite of God as the Apostles were had a heade appointed ouer them for remedie against schismes what reason leadeth yow to thinke that emongest so manye â—ades as be in the vniuersall churche gouernours of particuler churches not so priuileaged with grace there maye not be the like yea greater cause to feare schismes and so consequently that there ought not to be the same remedie that is to saye one heade So that if you counte youre selfe hurt when it is proued that there ought to be one chiefe heade of Christes churche you are by graunting of this prerogatiue to S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles verie daungerously hurte Yea but you were prouided for all suche after clappes before I doubte not Other wise so circumspect a man as you are woulde neuer haue yealded so farre And therfore you adde And if M. Dorman vpon this graunte woulde inferre suche a Nowell supremacie of one ouer the rest of the Apostles as the pope claimeth ouer the churche S. Paule reprouing Peter more sharpely Galat. 2. to his face then is laufull nowe for any bishop to deale with the pope dothe proue that Peter had no suche supremacy One thing I must here tell you by the waie M. Nowell Dorman that in debating this matter of the auctoritie of S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles except you forsake S. Hierome you must forgo this example of S. Paule his reprouing of S. Peter which S. Hierome holdeth against S. Austen how truly I dispute not in this place to haue bene but a made matter betwene them that Paule shoulde reprehende and Peter suffer him selfe to be reprehendid for vsing the legall ceremonies as appeareth in the epistles written to and fro betwene them And therfore if you will be tried by S. Hierome he shoulde rather holde with this supremacie as the man who if he erred in striuing with S. Austen about this reprehending of Peter erred onely because he thought it a thing vnsemely and vnlikely that S. Paule woulde so reprehende the prince of the Apostles Which was he saieth the cause why Origen and other to stoppe the mouthe of Porphirius the heretike who laied to S. Paules charge that he was ouerbolde to reprehende Peter the chiefe of the Apostles expounded this place as he did But leauing S. Hierome and graunting that Peter was truly and in deede reprehended by S. Paule let vs examine whether suche a supremacie as is here spoken of maie not by the iudgement of the learned fathers of Christes churche stande wel inough for all this reprouing of S. Peter vsed by S. Paule I will emongest other alleage to this purpose two only S. Cyprian and S. Austen Epist ad Quintum The wordes S. Cyprian are these Naâ— nec Petrus quem primum dominus elegit super quem aedificauit ecclesiam suam c. For neither Pure whome oure lorde chose to be the chiefe and vpon whome he builded his church when he contended after with Paule about circuÌ„cision reuenged him selfe or chalenged anie thing insolently or arrogaÌ„tly in saing that he had the primacy and that he ought rather to be obeied of those that were nouices and came after Thus farre S. Cyprian With whome agreeth S. Austen as he that alleageth this verie place to proue that S. Cyprian to whose auctoritie the Donatistes leaned Lib. 2. de baptis contra Donatist ea for the baptising againe of suche as were Christened by heretikes woulde easely suffer him selfe for his humilitie being but one bishop or the doinges of his owne prouince either to be corrected by the statutes of the whole churche seing that he praised S. Peter in whome was the primacie of the Apostles for the same vertue of humilitie in suffering him selfe to be reproued of S. Paule Thus it appeareth that S. Paules resisting of S. Peter was no derogatioÌ„ to S. Peters auctoritie as the which by the confessioÌ„ of both these learned fathers remained saufe and whole notwithstanding the reprehension of S. Paule and withall that you and your fellowes M. Nowell who vse so often to the derogation of S. Peters auctoritie to cite this place of the epistle Galat. 2. to the Galathians doe shamefully abuse the same with no small iniurie to the blessed apostles bothe But yeat you fare that I haue saide nothing all this while to this that Peters supremacie was no suche as is the popes whome no man may blame what so euer he doe Yes sir the pope maie be blamed Neither doe the texte nor the glose by you here alleaged saye the contrarie And so haue diuerse good men freelie reprehended diuerse popes S. Bernard a moÌ„ke reprehended Eugenius the third more sharpely iwisse as youre selues can full well tel and therfore make much of him in that respect then euer did S. Paule reproue S. Petre. Paulus 4. was admonished by lettres writteÌ„ by one in Rome of the vnhonest behauiour of his nephues the two Caraffas He toke the aduertisemeÌ„t in good parte and banished them the courte immediatly What should I remembre the lettres written by Petrus a So to a frier also to Pius the pope that nowe is wherin he admonished him freely to take ordre that bishoppes and other inferiour pastours might be compelled Dat. Tridenti 17. Aprilis Anno Do. 1563. Nowell fol. 44. b. 24. to kepe resideÌ„ce with their charges and threatened to him vtter daÌ„nation in the iudgemeÌ„t of God vnlesse he did It foloweth not you saye that one being chosen to beruler emongest twelue that therefore one maie be also chosen to be ruler ouer all the cleargie of the worlde No more do the it that because there was one chosen of euerye one churche or diocesse to rule the reste that therefore there shoulde be one chosen to rule all bishoppes of all diocesses namely at Rome and the saide ruler to be called pope or heade of the vniuersall churche The first answere touching that one heade emongest Dorman Institut li. 4. cap. 6. Sect. 8. fol. 53. a. b the Apostles you learned of youre Maister Caluin against whome I haue proued that the consequent holdeth verye well in my first booke The argument I haue showed oftentimes howe it holdeth and last of all in the
not by lawe As fast as you saie I laied on loade of not onelie popishe witnesses but popes them selues for popes I thinke it will be harde for you to name but one beside Leo Innocentius and Gregorie the first whose sainges I alleaged And why I brought those rather then other I showed good cause I denie not yeat for all that but that euen this onely Leo I thinke is a heauier loade then yow woulde be gladde to beare That I yealded so muche at that time as to omit the testimonies of those notable popes I repent me therof By popishe witnesses you can meane no other but the fathers off Christes church and those to within the first six hundred yeares for other I alleaged none If as you would discredite A shift of M. Nowelles not hearde of before to discredite all the fathers that make for the popes auctoritie the popes because they be popes so you will discredite these auÌ„cient writers because they be popish and write for the pope then you haue founde a more neare waie I confesse then M. Iuell coulde Who alloweth all within the first 600. yeares As before for the fundatioÌ„ of this your first exceptioÌ„ you laied a false sclaunderouse lye to builde vpon so now to vnderprop the same vnder the colour off a more reasonable cause of exceptioÌ„ you bring in a feined story of Sozimus bisshop of Rome who you saie did falsefie the decrees of the Nicene councel whereupon you will conclude that neither Leo b. 3. nor anye other pope neither is to be beleued in this matter Not vnlike to the foolishe gentle woman that sware she woulde neuer loue oure Ladie more because she was a Iewe borne and the Iewes had put Christe to deathe I knowe I shall seme to manie men to digresse to far from my purpose in folowing youre rouing from the matter yeat something will I saye thereto because I knowe it to be one of the principall baites whiche suche fishers as you be M. Nowell vse to laye to bring men from the obedience of the Sea of Rome and hetherto in oure English tongue nothing hath bene answered thereto But because it is here impertinently entermedled with the answere to Leo I will first to auoide confusion ende that matter and then handle the other by it selfe Yow saye that Pighius affirmeth and I denye that the title Nowell fol. 48. a. 9 off oecumenicall or vniuersall Patriarke apperteineth to the bisshop of Rome of right and that therefore there must nedes be some erroure You report vntrulye of me M. Nowell Loke better vpon Dorman the place I reherse there the wordes of S. Gregorye who reprehended Iohn the B. of Constantinople for taking on him the name of vniuersall bishop Which title although it perteined to that Iohn in no sense and was as he affected it a prophane title and altogether mete for Antichrist yeat in that sense and meaning that it belonged to S. Gregorie in which sense onelye it is to be taken when it is applyed to the bishop of Rome I denied it not to perteine to the pope Thus doe Pighius and I agree Thus is there no errour thus goe you forwarde to encrease the numbre Lye 33. of youre lyes Yow merueile greatly that Leo woulde so ambitiously chalenge Nowell a. 14. in this epistle the same title in effect which he refused so freely offred vnto him by the whole councell c. LEO Gregorie after him Pius whiche is nowe nor Dorman anye pope that euer was before did striue about titles yow maye be suer The best title that they haue eche off them hathe bene and is to be called Seruus seruorum Dei the seruaunt of the Seruauntes of God But of this maye be merueiled more in what schole yow haue learned this manner with him that of humiltie refuseth suche titles as seme to gloriouse to deale so hardelye that because he refuseth the name he must nedes be depriued of the thinge The histories make mention that Vitellius the emperoure woulde neither be called Augustus nor Cesar Cesar refused the name of kinge Augustus and Antonius of Lordes Woulde youre wisedome haue serued yow nowe M. Nowell if you had liued in their time to denie them their Emperiall kingly and lordly auctoritie because they woulde not be called by suche names The councel is no councel where the heade is absent or â— â—0 coÌ„senteth not being present and therfore if here this coÌ„panie gathered togather in giuing this title to the pope had iudged amisse yet had not the councell erred I denie not as you saie I doe that the councell did well bothe the councell did well in offring a name mete to expresse the auctoritie which the pope had and so erred not and the bishop also well to refuse the same Except yow will saye that S. Paule when he refused the almoise and charitie off good 1. Cor. 9. men either did euell in refusing it or they euill in offring it The pope claimeth not this title no more then Leo dyd accepte it being offred Calle him by what sobre honeste name you list Graunte him the auctoritie due to him let all titles goe This is that whiche the pope claimeth and you ought not to denie This is that whiche Leo most modestly not as yow falselye terme it ambitiously chalenged to Peters seate Nowe let all reasonable men iudge hardely of the goodnesse of this exception whiche is a. 24. youre first The seconde exception that you vse against this testimonie of Leo for now yow saie yow will goe an other waye Nowell a. 28. to worke with me is that Leo saieth here vntruelye if these be Leo his wordes for that yow saye is yeat in controuersie But before you proue it yow will first aske me a question whether I haue trulye translated the place and iff I haue howe I can make these wordes in this epistle there is one dignitie common to all bishoppes to agree with these folowing there is difference of power emongest them and it is giuen to one to be aboue all the reste whose iudgement is of moste auctoritie b. 1. and howe this man is not in dignitie differing from the rest Yow doe like a wise man to goe an other awaye to worke Dorman for some men thinke you did but plaie before But I merueile why you shoulde put anie doubtes whether these be Leo his wordes or no seing that Caluin confesseth this epistle to be true and to be his To youre first question I answere that I haue translated this place trulye according to the copie printed at Colein anno 1561. To the next moued vpon this how then I can make these wordes agree one dignitie common to all and difference of power that they agree thus that allthough they haue all one dignitie of priestehode or bishoprike that yeat there is difference of power in iurisdiction If spirituall examples like yow not if you can not
disposuit Hoc erant vtique caeteri apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis SED EXORDIVM AB VNITATE PROFICISCITVR VT ECCLESIA VNA MONSTRETVR That is to saye And although oure Lorde gaue like power to all his apostles after his resurrection and saide As my father sent me so sende I you Take you the holie ghost whose synnes you forgiue they are forgiuen whose sinnes you reteine they are reteined yeat to set furthe vnitie he disposed by his auctoritie the same vnitie to beginne of one That were trulie the other apostles also that Peter was indued with like felowship of honour and power but the beginning commeth from vnitie that the churche maie be declared to be one These be the wordes of S. Ciprian faithfullie alleaged and trulie englished I will now repeate the matter euen from the beginning and doe you good Readers to vnderstande the cause why S. Cypriā mentioneth here at all S. Peter and why he entreth in to this comparison betwene him and the other apostles and then after make you priuey to the misteries of M. Nowelles sleight in alleaging this place which he perhappes thinketh that no man knoweth but him selfe and woulde I dare saie be lothe that anie mo shoulde For the first it is to be vnderstande that not manie lines before this place that I haue nowe in hande S. Cyprian complaining of the fraude and subtilite of oure enemie the diuel saith that now that idolles be euerie where destroied he hath bethought him of a newe waie to deceiue mankinde and that is by heresies and schismes to carie them oute of the churche And this commeth to passe saieth he while men come not to the beginning of truthe the heade is not sought out neither the doctrine off oure heauenly maister kepte which thinges if a man woulde considre and examine there woulde nede no long discourse nor greate argumentes The truthe hath made the way to proue the faithe easy Oure Lorde saieth to Peter and vpon this rocke will I builde Math. 18. my churche c. And after his resurrection he saieth to him feede my shepe And although after his resurrection he gaue all his apostles like power and so furthe as I rehersed before After all this he addeth Hanc ecclesiae vnitatem qui non tenet tenere se fidem credit This vnitie of the churche he that holdeth not thinketh he that he holdeth the faith Thus farre S. Cipriā The occasion you see that moued him to mention Peter Note and to compare him with the other apostles was because to auoide schismes we must he said seke out vnitie by the scripture where we shoulde finde that our lord woulde haue his churche to begin of one of him to whome he saide thow art Petre and vpon this rocke will I builde my churche Well then must this be reteined as a truthe in the meane season if we will be within the vnitie of the churche we must kepe vs in that churche which beginning and springing out of one roote or flowing out of one heade founteine for these be also in this place S. Cyprians similitudes is one Now let vs applye the place as it is alleaged by you M. Nowell and see whether you haue vsed S. Cyprian wel or no. You alleage the place to proue such an equalitie emongest th' apostles as that there should be no difference emongest thē and so ouerthrowe all S. Cyprians drift whereby he woulde proue the churche to be one because it taketh beginninge of one For if they be all equall and no difference betwene them then either the churche hathe no one beginning or 12. beginninges If no one beginning howe can the vnitie procede of that which is not if 12 how can the churche be therefore one because as S. Cyprian saieth the vnitie thereof beginneth of one or what beginning call yow that of vnitie that commeth from suche an equall multiplicitie If therefore it be builded vpon one alone as by S. Cyprian it appeareth that it must then is that one aboue the rest Nowe to haue the churche builded vpon one is thus muche to saye that as in a materiall building there is one foundation whereupon all the rest thereof stone tymbre Iron and what so euer elles leaneth so there is in the churche one to whome after Christe the great rocke and firste grounde all the rest that be membres thereof muste as it were leane he him selfe bearing the burdē of the whole building Is not this to be the chiefe stone in Gods building If you shoulde here perhappes wrangle and saye that although it appeare by this place that Christe disposed the beginning of vnitie to procede from one and from Peter toe that yeat here is no mention that the churche shoulde be builded vpon him notwistanding that Christe speaking off Peter saide he woulde builde it vpon that rocke then I remit you for the proufe that S. Cipriāmeaneth so here to those places of his lib. 1. epist 3. epist 8. 12. lib. 4. epist 9. lib. de habit Virgin lib. de bono pati epist ad I ubaianum And last of all to the epistle ad Quintum where he hath in expresse wordes against this equalitie that you dreame of Petrus quem Dominus primum elegit super quē aedificauit ecclesiā suam Peter whome oure Lord chose to be the chiefe and vpon whom he builded his churche This because yow sawe M. Nowell M. Nowell shamefully misuseth S. Cypriā that the verie wordes of S. Cyprian in this place did purport and that alleaged wholly they were to vnequall to serue your fantasied equalitie you first hewed of this knot Et quamuis and although Then you shaued cleane awaye tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie manifest vnto this place Hoc erant vtique And yeat that sentence escaped not youre fingers for the last parte thereof Sed exordium but the beginning procedeth from vnitie you pared cleane awaye First the worde Quamuis althoughe is of suche a nature that where so euer it be put it is a messenger that signifieth some diuersitie like to followe as when S. Cyprian saide here although the Apostles were equall that which foloweth yeat he disposed the beginning off vnitie to begin of one argueth in that point some inequalitye Againe the wordes that folowe tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie knowen and vt ecclesia vna monstretur that the churche may be shewed to be one These you passed ouer because in them lyeth the very cause why oure Sauioure hath appointed one to be aboue the rest for vnities sake because otherwise it coulde not haue bene chosen but so manie rulers so manie faithes and then where had vnitie bene Beside this the worde ab vno incipientem beginning of one lefte also quite oute ouerthroweth that false proposition of youres that to vnite the churche and make it one in earthe
there neadeth no other heade then Christe which is in heauen Whiche if it had bene so what nede was there that Christe shoulde appointe a mortall man to that office as here it appeareth he did Peter To this moste shamelesse mangling and mutilating of this and other lyke places of the fathers vsed by you and youre fellowes I saye as S. Cyprian in this verie place saieth to such like craftes men that vsed so to alleage thinges to their vauntage in his tyme. Corruptores euangelij atque interpretes falsi extrema ponunt superiora praetereunt partim memores partim subdole corrumpentes Vt ipsi ab ecclesia scissi sunt ita capituli vnius sententiam scindunt That is to saie The corrupters of the ghospell and false interpretours take that which commeth behinde and leaue out that which goeth before partly mindefull partly craftely corrupting As they are them selues cut from the churche so deuide they the meaning The answere to the place of S. Cyprian of one sentence Thus muche of youre falsehode in alleaging this place Nowe to the place I answere that S. Cyprian sayeth not that Christe gaue like power to his Apostles in all respectes absolutely but determineth particulerly wherein this equalitie dothe consist as in being sent to preache thorough out all the worlde as Christ was sent by his Father in power of forgiuing sinnes Which power being giuen to them streight vpon Christes resurrection and being common to them as they were all the generall legates of Christe thorough out the worlde derogateth nothing by S. Cyprians minde from that speciall auctoritie that Christe departing out of this worlde gaue to Peter to continue And therefore to shewe that this was his meaning euen as before S. Hierome after the like equalitie mētioned Cap. 13. in the Apostles concludeth that notwithstanding that Peter was chosen to be the heade emongest them so dothe here S. Cyprian after the generall rule that they had all like power adde as an exception from the rule the same that S. Hierome hath in other wordes Tamen vt vnitatem c. yeat to make vnitie manifeste he disposed the beginning thereof by his auctoritie to begin of one Thus much maye suffice to satisfie youre wondring M. Nowell with what face I haue bene so boulde and busye with S. Cyprian To the place of S. Hierome which you bring also to fol. 50. a. 9. b. 6. proue that the dignitie of a bishop is not estemed by the greatnesse of his diocesse or citie and that all be equall in office I saie that it is true that the dignitie of a bishop dependeth not vpon the greatnesse of his diocesse but it is false that there be no degrees in the office of a bishop That yow bring Erasmus to proue it it forceth not For he is with Catholikes of no more auctoritie thē Pighius is with yow That betwene S. Cyprian Hierome and Leo there is no disagrement The 15. chapiter Yow are now come to the comparing of the sainges of S. Cyprian and S. Hierome with the testimonie of Leo bearing witnesse yow saye to him selfe The which you compare firste after this sorte Leo saieth In the holie Apostles them selues there was a difference Nowell b. 8. of power and that it was geuen to one to be aboue all the rest On the contrarie parte S. Cyprian saieth the Lorde gaue like and equall auctoritie to all his apostles all the Apostles be indewed with like felowship both of honour and power Neither are Leo his wordes trulie alleaged neither yeat Dorman S. Cyprians Leo sayeth that inter beatissimos Apostolos False dealing in alleaging the wordes of Cyprian and Leo. in similitudine honoris fuit quaedam discretio potestatis emongest the blessed Apostles in likenesse of honour there was a certeine difference of power quum omnium par esset electio vni tamen datum est vt coeteris praeemineret And whereas they had all one calling yeat it was giuen to one to be aboue the rest S. Cyprians wordes are that although oure Lorde after his resurrection gaue all his Apostles like power behold the likenesse of honour that Leo speaketh of c. yeat to make vnitie knowen he disposed by his auctoritie that it should begin of one Lo here quaedā discretio potestatis that certeine difference of power acknowledged by S. Cyprian that Leo mentioneth What iarring is there here M. Nowell their wordes being trulie alleaged Naie what swete consent is there betwene these two learned fathers Leo saieth there was emongest the Apostles a likenes of honour but yeat a certeine difference of power he saieth their calling or election was like but yeat giuen to one to be aboue the rest Doth not S. Cyprian saie the same when first in their election to be sent into all the worlde to preache then in the power of remitting sinnes he maketh them equall and yeat in adding afterwarde this particle tamen but yeat he noted a certeine difference of power this forsoth that vpon one of them the beginning and verie fundation of vnitie should be laied notwithstanding all the equalitie otherwise Is this true dealing M. Nowell thus to bring in M. Nowell mangleth the wordes of Leo and S. Cypriā to make them disagree mangled at youre pleasure the sainges of the fathers to deface them to the worlde as here yow doe by taking from the wordes of Leo this particle quaedam making him to seme the more to differ from S. Cyprian and cutting from S. Cyprian those wordes that vnitie should begin of one conteining that certeine difference in likenes of honour that Leo speaketh of Yow saie that S. Cyprian hath this in his boke De simplicitate praelatorum noting them as double faced prelates that teache or attēpt to make one bishop aboue an other The true title of the boke is De vnitate ecelesiae of the vnitie of the churche as to him that shall reade it maie easly by the contentes thereof appeare Yow are therefore a double faced or manie headed prelate that for one chiefe heade giue vs so manie You procede in youre cōparison and saie that Leo hathe out of this fourme is taken oure difference of bishops that in euerie prouince one be Dorman chiefe and of most auctoritie and the bishop of greter cities to haue greater care and consequētly that he that sitteth in Peters chaire should haue charge and be head of the vniuersal church Thus you say Leo saieth because he him selfe wold be Lord and head ouer all the church wheras S. Cyprian on the other side saieth Euerie bishop hath his seuerall portion of Christes flock to rule and gouern c. that those who are vnder the charge of the B. of one coūtrie may not appeale to a bishop of an other for that the auctoritie of one bishop is not inferiour to an other nor the auctorite of the B. of Afrike is lesse then the auctoritie of the bishopps of
together stande in some stede You go forwarde and saye For the which it pleaseth D. Harding to call the Aricans emongest Nowell ◠25. whom S. Austen Orosius and Prosper with manie other learned and godly bishoppes were schismatikes as those that submitted not their neckes to the pope and folowing Hosius his auctor he saith that Africa cōtinued in this schisme 100. yeares to wit from Boniface the first to Boniface the seconde M. Doctour Harding neuer mentto inuolue S. Austen Dorman Orosius or Prosper in anie schisme with the Africanes For as at this councell it appeareth not in the recordes thereof that Orosius who neuer was bishop but only a prieste and therfore could giue no definitiue voice in the councell that cōsisted of only bishoppes or Prosper either were present so is it more then probable that S. Austen who to the first epistle sent to Bonifacius gaue his consent and subscribed with other wherein they protested to obserue all thinges demaunded by the pope till they coulde get from the Easte the true copies of the councell of Nice it is I saie more then probable that forasmoche as in this latter epistle to Celestinus no mention is made of him at all notwithstanding that he was legat for Numidia his name so famouse his bisshoprike so greate that he sawe in the meane season so muche right in the bishop of Romes cause and so little in the other allthough by no meanes their doinges tended to the vniuersall abrogating of the popes auctoritie that he refused so muche as to put his name or suffer him selfe to be named in those lettres of theirs So that before yow had charged M. D. Harding thus odiously you ought to haue proued that suche a decree was made in the African councell and haue noted to vs the canon then that Orosius and Prosper were present at the making thereof and gaue their consentes therto Last because yow seing that the decree of the councell was not to be founde referred youre selfe to the epistle written to Celestinus yow shoulde haue tolde vs in what wordes there the mention of this decree laie hidden and proued allthough S. Austens name be not there mentioned that yeat he consented therto Againe M. Nowell whē this matter betwene the B. of Rome and the Africanes began first to be called in question it was entreated with suche humilitie and submission by the Africanes as appeareth by this epistle to Celestinus that they coulde by no meanes be accounted schismatikes Afterwardes in dede the matter grewe so farre that it burst out in to open schisme and so continued to the time of Boniface the 2. To the which schisme that euer S. Austen Orosius or Prosper consented or any other good catholike prieste or bishop yow shall neuer be able to proue And so this lye with that houge Lye 43. heape of all the rest remaineth with you and the truth with vs. But because you bragge as you doe of the companie of S. Austen and Prosper and sclaundre them to the worlde to be schismatikes I will in defence of their innocency alleage out of their workes so muche as shall I trust with the better sorte suffice for their purgation Who is it I praie you M. Nowell that saieth of the church of Rome that in it the principalitie of the apostolike chaire hathe August epist 162. euer florished Who calleth Bonifacius the same in whose time this controuersie was moued the bishoppe that hathe Lib. 1. contra 2. epis Pelag. ca. 1 the preeminence in the bishoply care aboue all other Who calleth the See of Rome alluding to the wordes of Christe in the Psalm contra partē Donat. gospel the rock which the proude gates of hell shal not ouercome Who but S. Austē whom you be not here ashamed to matche with your selfe as thinking of the pope and See of Rome as heretically as you doe To come to Prosper when you here him acknowledg that Zozimus of whom all this talke riseth added to the decrees of the African councelles sententiae suae robur the strength and force of his sentence Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 41. that with Peters sworde to the cutting of of wicked men he armed the right handes of all bishoppes for so are his wordes in Latine ad impiorum detruncationem gladio Petri dexteras omnium armauit antistitum When you are not ignoraunt if you knowe anye thinge that the same Prosper saieth Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 10. that the holye See of Rome spake to all the worlde by the mouthe of Zozimus Will you not for shame call backe againe that wretched sclaunderouse lye off youres that Prosper shoulde be touching the bishoppe of Rome of the same minde that yow are Was Zozimus taken off Prosper to be a corrupter and falsarye a countrefeite catholike and in deede a false schismatike from Christe and the truthe as youre venimouse tongue hath not feared to pronounce of him Is fier more contrary to water then is this iudgemēt of youres to that of Prospers for his vertue and auctoritie You pretend that the fathers of the coūcel of Carthage would barre Zozimus of al auctority Prosper telleth vs that so much he was estemed of them that they had the strength of his sentence added to their decrees as muche to saye as to confirme and alowe them You call him a corrupter a falsarie a countrefeite catholike a false schismatike Prosper calleth him one that armed the right handes of al bishoppes with Peters sworde to cut of wicked mē from the rest of Christes mistical body the church You restreine his power to Rome Prosper confesseth that by his mouthe the See of Rome spake to all the worlde If this be not more then impudencie good reader in M. Nowel then what is impudencie I confesse I know not But acknowledged Prosper this auctoritie in Zozimus onely no verilye For in Celestinus to whome this epistle here mentioned was sent from the African bishoppes he witnesseth that there was suche power that he cured the Iland The pope meddled in England Scotland Fraunce and in the East off Britannye infected with Pelagius heresie that he ordeined Palladius bishoppe ouer the Scottishe men that with the Apostolicall sworde he aided Cirillus the B. of Alexandria to purge the churches of the East of a double plague the Nestorians and Pelagians that in Fraunce he put them to silence who reported euill of S. Augustins writinges Finally to them that reiected certeine bookes of S. Augustins vpon pretence that they were not allowed by the pope he answered An exception in the primitiue churche againste bookes that they were not allowed by the Pope Ibid. ca. 43 in this wise Agnoscāt calumniatores superfluò se obijcere quòd his libris non speciale neque discretum testimonium si◠perhibitum quorum in cunctis voluminibus norma laudatur Apostolica enim sedes quod a praecognitis sibi non discrepat cum praecognitis probat
58. a. youre sclaunders of schismes and troubles as by vs raised doe we alleage the effecte of the same parable of the stronge man so quiet in his house vntill a strongre then he came and disturbed him whiche Christe oure sauiour in like sclaunder rehearsed for defense of himselfe Although the parable serued our Sauioure against the Dorman Phariseis yeat it serueth not yow against the churche off Christe When yow can proue that which yow only without proufe blasphemously hetherto haue affirmed making it aswell of the application of this parable as of all that you elles haue sayde touching comparing of vs to the Phariseis youre selues to Christe and his Apostles the verye foundation that all faitheful Christians were in that case when Martin Luther beganne first to preache that the Phariseis were at the comming of Christe then applye it and vse it it will wel serue your purpose Yeat truly to make this parable in some wise to serue youre turne it maketh well for youre Sacramentaries againste the poore Lutherans whome you haue in dede not onely disquieted but driuen from their possessions in moste places and deuoured also and swalowed into your hongresteruen paunches euen as is saide that Pharao dreamed of the seuen leane carion oxen that they had eaten vp the fatte And so let Gen. cap. 41. this parable and dreame bothe if you wil serue youre turne Iff the reader shall thinke that I haue bene to tediouse in answering Nowell this matter here but touched as it were by the waye I trust he will beare with me therein for that M. Dorman as he began and floorished the first face of his boke with blotting vs with the sclaunder of schismes so hathe he hetherto continued in the same and applied all his allegations out of S. Cipriā Basile Hierome Nicephorus and others chiefely to that purpose c. The reader must beare with yow in mo thinges then Dorman this or elles it will be wrong with yow And euen in this me thinketh and so I doubt not but other thinke to wherin yow craue pardon as hauing sayde to much he had ned◠to beare with you for saing so little For your owne defence till yow proue vs by Scripture that Christes churche shoulde decaie and come to vtter ruine and that so it dyd yow haue sayde nothing against vs till yow bring better matter then different opinions of schoolemen in disputable matters of Logiciners aboute the predicables of religiouse men in clothing diet going becking bowing c. yow haue sayde as little The first sentence that I prefixed before my booke out of Saint Augustine yow haue not yeat answered If yow had answered it there as yow pretended that you woulde you shoulde not haue neded here to haue troubled either youre selfe or the reader with that matter For answere once directly yea or nay to this whether yow communicate with all nations and with those churches founded by the Apostles labour and the matter is answered who be the schismatikes in fewe wordes you or we Where you saye that my allegations out of S. Cyprian Basile Hierome Nicephorus were applyed chiefly to this to note you of schismes I muste note that you be here contrarye to youre selfe and youre sainges before For M. Nowell contrary to him selfe in youre reproufe vpon these places you make me to haue suche sense as though I had alleaged them all directly to proue the popes supremacy And for that cause you labour with toothe and naile to proue that they ought not so to be taken Neither are they contented here with but doe also plaie with Nowell pictures very pleasantly as they thinke in the which they painte out a multitude of suche heretikes or rebelles as oure confederates or allies whose opinions we do moste abhorre and against whome we continually bothe preache and wrighte Yea forsothe this was the matter in deede allthough Dorman yow be lothe to confesse so muche that made yowe to lauish out youre store in defence of schismes and sectes It was this table this arbor as you call it or crooked tree that made yow to daunce But what saie yow to this tree I praie yow Yow saie that we haue placed there a multitude of heretikes whose opinions yowe doe moste abhorre We marueile not though yow like not all for therein standeth the grace of the table that of so manie sectes as be there set out no one of them liketh the other Yowe shoulde haue done well to haue named the opinions which yow doe abhorre as perhappes yow would had it not bene for waking some of youre felowes that seme to be a sleepe That these sectes appeare not all of them euidently emongest yow as they doe in Germanie where youre heresies first beganne VVhy sectes and schismes shewe not them selues so euidently in Englande as they doe in Germanie as that excuseth yow not being all membres of that malignant churche youre mother so is it the lesse to be merueiled at because the states of these two countries are not like England is ruled by one souereigne heade Germanie by diuerse Which is the cause that the heades being diuersly affected in religion auaunce euery of them that religion whiche liketh him best Whereas in Englande yow lacke that commoditie being vnder the rule of one only heade whiche is an inuincible argument to shewe how necessarie in the churche of God it is to haue one heade to gouerne the reast Had yow in Englande as they haue in Germanie your free cities youre dukes youre Lantgraues youre Palsgraues euery one a king within his owne dominions O how yowre sectes woulde triumphe in the courtes of princes what combattes they would kepe in open pulpites that nowe dare not but by steal the and in corners one of them snatche and snarle at the other As for youre continuall preaching and writing against these sectes whereof yowe bragge so muche what yow preache against the Lutherans Anabaptistes Osiandrins or any suche like I reporte me to them which be youre hearers I thinke what so euer face yow set vpon it here yow be colde and rare inough in that argument and be as plentifull and whot as you will yow shall haue these heretikes and suche other in places where they dare saie as muche of yowe As for youre writing yow protestantes at home haue not written anie one worde that is to be sene abroade against anye secte of the table more then in some sely translations of youre felowes bookes as yowe terme by contempte that kinde of excercise So busy yowe are in doing the message of youre father in setting furth to the worlde youre Sacramentarie heresie and defacing the popes auctoritie that as little leisour haue you to wright against other sectes if yow mislike them as yow pretende as yow haue to exhorte mē by preaching to fasting to praier to good worckes And therefore youre writing I let passe as a manifest Lye 51. lye And all
or some other like vnto it If this were not youre meaning M. Nowell why cut you of the worde quaÌ„uis at the beginning and these other in the middest Tell vs some other cause if you can Next after these auctorities you alleage a treatie of one fo 73. a. Borowed of the coÌ„fession of wittenberge Tit. de Eccles that you set furth Rhetorically calling him an auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time taken for him to proue that the churche must be tried by the scriptures To this place I answere that whether it be Chrisostomes owne worcke from whence it is taken or no this is a thing moste certeine that it is to be warily readen as the boke which hath thrust into it if it be Chrisostomes owne or anie other catholike mannes by some false Arrian heretike manie poisoned and perniciouse sentences for the maintenaunce of the Arrians heresie Emongest other to note to you one or two euen in the. 48. homilie whiche is the verie nexte before this that you alleage here the Catholikes for mainteining the equalitie of Christe with God the father are nombred emongest heretikes and in the. 45. they are called heretikes that holde that the blessed trinitie is equall of like substance and auctoritie And therefore in suche places as this auctor who so euer it be dissenteth from the common faithe of Christes churche we haue iust cause to suspect that there this heretike who hath it appeareth ouerronne the whole hath dipped in his fingres and therefore that we reiect As in this place it is likely that he thought to make a waie for his heresies by chalenging to be tried by the scripture onelie the common request of the Arrian heretikes because the worde they saide Homousion was not to be founde in the scriptures But nowe if these wordes were Chrisostomes owne and not put in by the heretike yeat foloweth it not that because the churche is to be tried by the scriptures onelie that therefore all other questions maie be decided by the same alone For God whose wisedome diuised whose holie spirite brethed whose finger wrote the scriptures as for heretikes that coÌ„temne the auctoritie of the churche he hath so disposed them as Tertullian writeth that they might ministre them Lib. de praescript aduers haeres matter so hathe he againe for them that shal be content humblie to rest in the lappe of the same made that matter by the scriptures so clere that a catholike man maie be bolde to prouoke an heretike yea all the heretikes in the worlde to dispute by scripture onelie of that question whiche and where is the true churche And suerlie so was it expedient that it shoulde be that the churche whiche shoulde iudge of the true sense and meaning of the scriptures shoulde by the scriptures be so euidentlie proued that about that their might be no wrangling As it is not to be merueiled therefore if anie catholike man giue councell to proue the church by the scriptures the scriptures speaking of the churche as hath S. Austen more plainelie then they â—narrat in psal 30 doe of Christe him selfe and therto being writteÌ„ so euideÌ„tly that the textes making for the trial therof nede no interpretatioÌ„ Lib. de vnitate ecdes ca. 16 so can you not reason that all other controuersies in semblable wise must be tried by the scripture because the scripture is more ambiguouse in other maters and because the church is proued so plainelie that it might afterwarde hauing the continuall assistence of Goddes holie spirite and being the piller of truthe assuer vs being in doubte of the true meaning of scripture And thus muche for answere to your long place alleaged to so little purpose out of that auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time takeÌ„ for him By whose auctoritie lest the worekes of S. Clement making so muche against youre newe A sleight of M. nowells doctrine might get anie credite being here alleaged by this auncient auctor printed with Chrisostome and of long time taken for him you toke youre pen in to youre hande and cut that sentence clene awaie Hauing nowe spent youre store of testimonies brought fo 74. b. 9 by you to proue that the scripture alone ought to be the iudge of all controuersies you returne to youre olde plea so often auouched and neuer proued that we be the phariseis and therfore can not be the true churche of god that you alleage scriptures against vs as the Apostles did against the phariseis of whom and vs you saye furder as foloweth And I am suer that the high prieste withe his Iuishe churche Nowell b. 29. was able to saye as muche for the ordinarie succession of the highe priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntill his time for antiquitie for consent and for vniuersality against Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it semed latelye start vp as yowe are able to saye for youre churche or againste vs. But yeat we doe thinke that the worde of God as it was alleaged by Christe and hys Apostles againste the saide high prieste and his churche so maye it and ought it allso to be alleaged by vs againste youre highe prieste and youre churche cet What so euer the Phariseis had to saye againste the Apostles Dorman for them selues they had not this to saye whiche we haue againste you that theire churche was by the testimonies of the Scriptures promised to continue for euer The Apostles proued to them the contrary oute of the scriptures if you can doe the lyke to vs and shewe by euident scriptures that the churche of Christe shoulde for the space of fiftene hundred or nine hundred yeares either be ouerthrowen and at the length restored by a newe Messias we renounce the benefite off succession we giue ouer antiquitie consent vniuersalitye and what so euer elles Thus alleaged the Apostles the worde of God against the Phariseis Thus must you alleage it against vs if you will alleage it at all And whether you be so or no the true church of god seing it Nowell fol. 75. a. 23. is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am suer then can be aboute the sense of anye place off the scripture yow shall neuer be hable to make anie exception to the scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able ten tymes more to make exception to youre Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge We make no exception nor euer did againste the scripture Dorman as of it selfe an incompetent iudge to determine controuersies This we saye that the frowardenes of men addicted to mainteine their once receiued opinions maketh that the scripture is not alone sufficient to decide the same till the church haue giuen sentence betwene those that shall thus contende which is the true meaning of the scripture How the scripture decideth controuet
vnlearned you vse termes like youre selfe against this chaire of S. Petre minding as I take it to persuade that I shoulde drawe S. Hieromes wordes to suche a meaning as that he shoulde meane that Christes churche were builded vpon a materiall chaire You maye be ashamed M. Nowel where you lacke iust matter to blotte paper and waste incke with suche cauilling triffles as euerie man that hath common sense wil as sone as they haue passed once youre mouthe be hable to discouer and reproue Dothe not S. Hierome in this place make twise expresse mention of Petres chaire Why triumphe you not ouer him as you crowe against me with youre foolishe and vnsauory Rhetorike and saie that he was well occupied to write from Siria to Rome for councell from a rotten chaire that he was a wise man to ioyne him selfe in communion theretoe Who seeth not that yow woulde haue taken the matter as whotly with S. Hierome as you doe with me hauing as good cause alltogether sauing that yow feared the burning of youre lippes I saie therefore M. Nowell that VVhat S. Hierome ment by Peters chayre S. Hierome to answere you in this pointe if you were so verie a dolt that you vnderstode it not before by building the churche vpon Petres chaire meaneth euen as he did in those two places before where you can not denie but that he maketh expresse mention of that chaire Sainte Hierome meaneth there no materiall chaire and therefore no rotten chaire as you like a rotten membre and deuided from the churche blasphemously saie He meaneth as Matt◠23 Christe doeth in the ghospell speaking of Moises chaire as the fathers Cipriā Epiphanius Austen Ambrose Optatus and the rest doe as often as they vse this worde that is to saie by the chayre the power and bishoplike auctoritie which Petre hauing giuē to him cōmitted to his successours For euē as a riuer though it runne manie thousandes of miles leeseth not yeat but reteineth neuerthelesse the name of the founteine and heade spring from whence it came so fareth it in the succession of bishoppes that how many so euer there be that succede yeat they are all saide to possesse the chaire of him that ruled firste yea allthough euerie of them had made for him selfe a newe chaire For the matter consisteth not as I saide before in materiall chaires no more then doth the opening or shutting of heauen gates depende vpon materiall keyes And as well might you like a Lucianist or a Porphirian haue scoffed at Christe for saing that the scribes and Phariseis sate vpon Moises chaire which if they had had emōgest them if euer Moises sate in anie should at that time haue bene as rotten as is S. Petres nowe there being betwene Moises and S. Petre not manie fewer yeares then are nowe betwene S. Petre and oure time or for making keyes for heauen as yow doe against me But to let this passe and to exaggerate no furder that for the which at the handes of suche as be of the learneder and wiser sorte you are like to susteine punishment enough by incurring the note of this infamie to be no learned reasoner but a railing wrangler I will nowe as compendiously as maie be iustifie the inserting of this Parenthesis Peters chaire First these wordes vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred rather as youre selfe before confessed and in this case if in anie you ought to be beleued for you haue bene a scholemaister and practised better in the gramer rules then in the scriptures and fathers writinges to the wordes that go nearest before but the wordes Peters chaire are placed nearest before Therefore by youre owne confession the building of the churche ought to be referred thither Againe S. Hierome in this place it is to be presumed alluded in these wordes I knowe the churche to be buylded on that rocke to the wordes of the ghospell Tues petrus super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thow Matt. 16. arte Petre and vpon this rocke wil I builde my church But in that place Christe appointed an other fundation of the church beside him selfe to wit Peter It foloweth therefore that S. Hierome in this place ment not of Christ but of Peters chaire that is Peters auctoritie or Peter him selfe Thirdly it is more then probable that sainte Hierome mēt not in this place of building the churche vpon Christe only but vpon Petre also nexte after Christe because to him that with iudgement wil reade the epistle considre duly the circunstances especially the beginning it shal appeare that his whole talcke is so framed that whereas of purpose and directly he maketh mention of consulting Peters chaire off ioyning him selfe to Peters chaire and in that whole discourse of his setteth furthe the praises of the churche off Rome he speaketh of Christe but incidently and as it were by the waie of a parenthesis and that toe to auaunce the dignitye of the See of Rome as before the which he woulde preferre he saide none but Christe The whiche being so what sounde iudgement will not rather refer these wordes aboute whiche the controuersie is to that whiche is principally and directly handled rather then to that which is mentioned but incidently and indirectly Last of all it is to be iudged that S. Hierome agreeth here with his owne writinges in other places Nowe is this euident that euen the thirde epistle before thys he saieth in plaine wordes that the churche was builded vppon Petre. His wordes are Apostolus Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit ecclesiam Tom. 2. epist ad Marcellā Petre the Apostle vpon whom our lorde founded his churche Thus you see good Readers I trust howe falselye and withoute all cause M. Nowell hathe quarelled with me for this parenthesis added only to make more plaine the wordes of Saint Hierome It foloweth that I showe to you howe he prosecuteth his purposed malice by the auctorities of Erasmus and S. Augustine in the 108. 109. and 110. leaues Erasmus saieth M. Nowell cleane contrarye to all papistes Nowell fol. 108. a. 18. saieth in his notes vpon these wordes Super illam petram c. Non super Romam vt arbitror c. That is to saie Vpon that rocke not vpon Rome I trowe c. From Erasmus thus farre we dissent not that we knowe Dorman as well as he that the church was not built vpō Rome For if Rome were sacked as God forbid to morowe nexte the church should continue neuerthelesse although the bishop went from thence and shoulde sit at the meanest towne in all Italye or elles where As for that that he woulde haue the churche to be builded by S. Hieromes meaning vppon Peters faithe that first he affirmeth not confidently but saieth he troweth so next it maye be saide that in this place Erasmus telleth his owne opinion in the other place off this epistle vpon these wordes Extra hanc domum without this