what can you bring foorth M. Sta. to returne your wise demaunde on your selfe for your pope his councels out of the olde Testament can ye finde your pope and his cardinals in councel there assembled Uerily then might ye haue béen much bolder than ye were right now in your sacond marke to limit your crake within a thousande yeres and vpwarde But thereby might ye soone haue marred the popes clayme froÌ„ Peter so that ye wan in the hundrethes léese agayne in the shire and put your winning in your eye well inough and yet sée neuer the worsse But ye will replie that ye can bring proofe out of the olde Testament how they acknowledged their highe priest But what is this to the purpose except ye proue their high priest to haue had the same authoritie that your Pope doth clayme For otherwise so say we our godly Princes do acknowledge their godly byshops nor do abandon but reuerence them Neuerthelesse if those their byshops be wicked they may remoue depriue or as ye cal it abandon theÌ„ or otherwise punish them accordingly Thus did king Salomon depriue or abandon Abiathar the high priest And so if ye lyken your Pope to the Iewes highe Priest then hath the byshop brought foorth profe out of the olde Testament to confirme our Princes abandoning of your Pope but muche more if we consider these godly kings examples the foresayde idolatrous priestes suche as in déede al the Popishe priestes bée And also in reiecting suche councels as the Prophet agaynst the naughtie priestes in hys time speaketh of Inite consilium dissipabitur Enter into counsell and it shall be defeated But ye will say they are not like to your couÌ„cels Yet were they alike then is proofe brought foorth euen by the olde Testament agaynst your councels And wherin are they not alike béeing both aduersus Dominum Christum eius agaynst the Lorde and agaynst his annoynted Sauing that herein they are not like in déede those olde councels of the wicked priests yea the councels of Caiphas Annas the high Priests the Scribes and Phariseis that assembled so often agaynst Christ and his Apostles were not halfe so craftie malicious and violent as your Popes generall councels are Where sauing the bare title of generalitie is nothing but partialitie violence and bondage and are nothing lesse than generall as shall be further noted where ye giue occasion further to speake thereon Now to that ye say the Quéene hath abandoned general councels and that by acte of Parliament it is but your generall lie And your selfe very fondly without furder councell in your next wordes confute your owne tale For going about to alleage such motines as cause you to say that the Quéene hath abandoned generall couÌ„cels and that by plaine acte of parliament I say this say you partely for a certaine clawse of the acte of parliament that for the determination of any thing to be adiudged to be heresie resteth onely in the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures and in the first foure generall councels other councels generall wherin any thing is declared heresie by expresse wordes of Scripture Is this the clause that moueth you M. Stapl. to say the acte of parliament abandoneth generall councels this clause doth quite the contrarie most plainly admitting acknowleging the authoritie not onely of the first fowre generall councels but also of all such other as grounde them selues on the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Now what a reason call ye this The acte of Parliament admitteth the determinations of the fower generall councels and other councels generall Ergo generall councels be abandoned by acte of parliament it admitteth them Ergo it abandoneth them Had not your braines admitted somewhat ouermuch which abandoned all counsell and reason 〈◊〉 when ye framed this reason M. Stapleton for by the like reason your selfe do abandon your Pope and generall councels also bicause ye do admitte them Do ye not see therefore how fondly ye reason and how falsly ye say that the acte of parliament abandoneth generall councels when it admitteth and receiueth generall councels and reiecteth so litle any one true generall councell that it admitteth also the determination of anything to be adiudged heresie by any generall councell that the said councel can so proue to be heresie by the worde of God If the acte of Parliament attributeth thus muche to all generall councels doth it abandon them and will you require it shoulde acknowledge them further than euen the godly generall councels themselues in determinations of Heresies would be admitted They alwayes layde before them as their leuell and ruler the holy Scriptures And thinke ye they layde them forth for a cipher in Algorisme as the Pope vseth them in his counsels Or rather as Constantine the great in the Nicene counsell sayde In disputationibus rerum diuinarum aâ—… fidei in quibus tameÌ„ habent sanctissimi spiritus doctrinam praescriptam Euangelici enim Apostolics libri nec non antiquissimoruÌ„ prophetarum oracula planè instruunt nos quid de voluntate dei sentiendum nobis sit Nothing is more vnworthie than c. in disputations of diuine matters and matters of fayth wherein they haue yet prescribed to them the doctrine of the holy ghost for the Euangelistes and Apostles Bookes and also the Oracles of the most auncient Prophetes doe plainely instruct vs what wee ought to thinke concerning the will of God. Athanasius one of the same counsell sayth Quae in Synodo Niâ—…na à patribus secundum diuinas Scripturas exposiâ—… sit fides suffuiens est ad omnem omnis impietatis destructionem ad confirmationem piae in Christo fidei That fayth is sufficient to all destruction of all wickednesse and to the confirmation of a Godly fayth in Christ whiche fayth was expounded of the fathers in the Nicene councell according to the diuine Scriptures And of this generall counsels authoritie sayth saint Augustine Nec ego Nicenum nec tu debes Ariminense tanque praeiudicaturus proferre concilium neque ego huius authoritate neque tu illius detineberis scripturarum authoritatibus c. Neither ought I to alleage the Nicene counsell as giuing any forestalled iudgment nor thou oughtest to alleage the couÌ„sel at AriminuÌ„ neither should I be deteyned by the authoritie of this nor thou of that let the matter be tried by the authorities of the scriptures c. And in this point S. Aug. is so earnest that he woulde admitte no doctrine not proued by the Scriptures but calleth it plaine fabling Ecce singere extra Euangelium est fabulari For behold it is but fabling to faine ought besides the Gospell Neither herein doth S. Augustine thinke he iniured any councel Neque enim saith he quoruÌ„lâ—…bet disputationeâ—… c. Neither ought we so to counte the disputations of any men what soeuer how catholike or laudable soeuer thei be as we
will be harde to conuince many frowarde and obstinate Heretikes to be Heretikes yea of such as by the foresaid fower first and many other Councels generall are condemned for Heretikes As Dauid saide of the wicked Iâ—…llic trepidauerunt timore vbi non erat timor They trembled there for feare where no feare was And as Esay saith Possedit timor hypocritas Feare hath taken holde on the hypocrites So are you M. Stapl afrayde of your owne shadowes For except those frowarde and obstinate heâ—…etikes be your selues that feare the iudgement of that cutting two edged sworde to beate downe your traditions no godly Christian neede to feare or flee from the determination of the Scripture or thinke it insufficient to detect and dâ—…termine all Hereâ—…ies Yet say you it wil be harde to conuince there with many froward obstinate heretikes â–ª As who shuld say it would be easiâ—…r to coÌ„uince them being so froward and obstinate with out the Scripture and not rather a great deale harder Is it likelier that their frowarde obstinacie will yelde to the authoritie of mans worde that will not yelde to the authoritie of Gods woorde but be it harde or â—…ofte what is that to the matter if it will conuince their Heresies be the Heretikes neuer so obstinate This is inough to the purpose that there is no hereâ—…ie defended neuer so frowardly of any obstinate heretike but the worde is able to conuince it to be an hereâ—…ie Yea as Chrysostome saith Nullo modo agnoscitur c. â—…o them that are willing to know which is the true church of Christ from heretikes Churches it is knowne by no meanes 〈◊〉 modo per scripturas but all onely by the scriptures And where ye make exceptioÌ„ of such as were condemned for heretikes by the first fâ—…wre generall Councels it is most euident that as in all those Councels the worde of God as their line and squyre was layde foorth amongst them so they conuinced all thoâ—…e heretikes by the same Your common obiection hereto is of the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which ye say in the expresse scriptures can not be found but what saith S. Augustine to this Quidest enim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nisi 〈◊〉 eâ—…usdemque substantiaeâ—… quid est inquam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nisi ego pater vnum sumus sed nunc nec ego Nicenum c. VVhat is this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but of one the same substance what is I say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but I and my father are one but now neither ought I to alleage the Councell of Nice neither oughtest thou to alleage as to giue fore iudgement the councel of Aâ—…iminum neyther should I be withhelde by the authoritie of this nor thou of that but by the authoritie of the Scriptures c. Thus doth S. Augustine both replie to you that euen those Heretikes were confuted onely by the expresse Scripture and also that for the Iudgement of Heresies the authoritie of the Scripture is to be preferred not onely before the prouinciall Councell at Ariminum but euen before the first generall councell at Nice Neyther did S. Augustine declare their doctrine to be an heresie bicause it was so determined by the generall councell but bicause it was determined by the authoritie of the Scriptures And following this rule we are sure we can not erre For this is as Dauid saith Lucerna 〈◊〉 meâ—…s verbum tuum domine lumen semitis me is Thy worde O Lord is a candle to my feete and a light to my pathes On the contrary with out this light not onely the priuate fathers but euen the councels yea the generall councels where they determined ought not grounded on the Scriptures so litle could espie the heresies of others that they erred foule them selues I omitte the councell of Carthage wherein S. Cyprian was how it erred in determining heretikes to be rebaptized The councell of Laodicea whiche though otherwise was a godly councell yet erred it farre in disallowing and enioyning penaunce for those that maried the second time And so forth diuerse other prouincial couÌ„cels And to speake only of generall councels euen the first Nicene councell how greatly was it like to haue erred in forbidding priests mariages and the matter was alreadie passed by all the Bishops voices had not one father Paphnutius bene that made them retract their errour Which they did not for any authoritie in him being but one Bishop against so many Bishops but moued by the authoritie of Gods worde that be alleaged and from which they swarued And as they haâ—… like to haue erred herein so erred they in déede in condemning those souldiours who hauing once professed the faith of Christ are prest for souldiours afterwardes Which is contrary to the rule of S. Iohn the baptist that allowed the life of souldiours as a lawfull calling Neither doth Christ in the Centuriâ—… nor S. Paule in Cornelius in Publius or any other captaines or souldiours with whom he had to do and by whose industrie he was often saued from daunger and whome he likewise helped did euer condemne the vocation of a souldiour vnder his Prince as a calling not agreable to christianitie Likewise the couÌ„cel of CalcedoÌ„ did wel in condemning Eutiches but in forbidding mariage to Monkes they erred from the expresse worde of God that sayth Mariage is honorable among all men and that euery man might take a wyfe to auoyde fornication and suche wickednesse not to be named as monks since that restraint haue fallen into And to bring euen a Monkes or an Abbots testimonie of your owne side Panormitane sayth Concilium errare potest sicut alias errauit super caâ—…sa matrimonâ—… contrahendi inter raptam raptorem quando dictum Hiâ—…ronimi fuit postea toti concilio praelatum A councell may erre as otherwise it erred concerning a cause of matrimonie betweene the partie rauished the raâ—…sher when as the saying of Hierome was afterwarde preferred before an whole councell And if ye referre this to a Prouinciall councell the generall rule taken from S. Augustine will conuince you that not onely Prouinciall councels are corrected by generall but also â—…psa plaenaria saepe prâ—…ora posteriâ—…ribus emendantur oftentimes euen the former generall councels are amended of the latter councels But how soeuer this rule was true in S. Augustines dayes since that time the latter generall councels haue ben worsse than the former and so from worsse to worsse are not onely become starke nought but nothing general at al. And therefore it is not onely lawfull to abandon them but we are bounde so to do as our Sauiour Christ warneth vs Cauete vobis ab hominibus quontam tradent vos in concihabulis suis Take heede to your selues of men bicause they will betray you in their councels Suche councels did S. Paule abandon when Fesâ—…us offred him
their swordes villes bowes and gunnes to lay on and strike onely when the Priests bid them and those onely whome the Priestes appoint to be slaine Now forsoth and forsoth M. St. this is a proper dealing of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes and a goodly kinde of making lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion Well whatsoeuer it be this is all they are like to haue of you and yet will ye kéepe touche with them in your graunt to But thinke ye M. St. was this all that princes ought to do and nothing else but to punish heretikes on this fashion nothing else say you for that was in deede the very occasion why S. Aug. wrote all this A â—…a M. St. then I perceyue S. Aug â–ª wrote something more than ye would perticulerly answere vnto Well say you what soeuer he wrote this was the very occasion whie he wrote it to make lawes for punishing Heretikes and nothing else How M. St to make the Emperor that then was none other dealer in their punishment than your Pope maketh the Emperour now or than your Prelates made Q. Marie of late your executioner and the Nobilitie your droyles whome soeuer ye determine to prick by your excoÌ„munication condemnation what fooles were the Donatists then to crie out vpon the Emperour This were like the furie of the angrie Dogge that being bitte with a stone wreaketh his anger vpon the stone and not on him that hurled it What fellon is offended with the executioner or layeth his death to the beheaders charge when the Prince commaundeth to behead him but to the Prince But in this case you are the Princes that are the Priests and the Prince is but as it were the stone in your bande is but the executioner of your sentence Why should the Donatists then haue blamed the Prince except the Prince then had beene not the Priestes instrument but euen the principall in making lawes of punishment for them And so did Saint August acknowledge the Prince He decréed not lawes for the Emperour to put in execution but desired the Emperour to reforms them by suche sharpe lawes as séemed best to himselfe And although this were the verie occasion as ye say why Saint Augustine wrote all this Yea though it were the onely occasion to of writing all that he wrote what is that to this purpose For whatsoeuer the occasion were the occasion is not vrged but the wordes that he wrote A particuler occasion maye haue generall prooues The occasion of Saint Augustines wryting ye saye was the punishing of the Donatists And yet woulde Saint Augustine so haue written thoughe they had béene other Heretikes And it serueth agaynst all Heretykes Whie bycause hys prooues are generall whatsoeuer were the occasion And yet his occasion was not onely aboute the punishing of the Donatists for the Donatists denyed more than hys authoritie in punishing them they denyed hys authoritie to â—…ette foorth the true Religion and to ouersee that it bee in all estates duely preserued This sayde they was committed to Fishers not to Souldiours to Prophets not to Kinges as you nowe saye the lyke it was committed to the Apostles and Priestes not to Kings This was another verie occasion also and many other besydes might be whie Saint Augustine wrote all this But what is this All this that ye speake vppon I pray ye tell vs at least the summe of all this that saint Augustine wrote And then shall we sée if it be all none other but lawes of punishment for Heretikes that he layde and ment or no. And whether you haue hitherto truly sayde and ment or no all your falsehoode will then appeare Let vs here therefore resume some of those Testimonies of Saint Augustine God dothe inspire sayth he into Kinges that they shoulde procure the commaundement of the Lorde to be performed or kept in their Kingdoms Is this onely master Stapleton for punishing of Heretikes Againe In that hee is also a King hee serueth in making lawes of conuenient force for to commaunde iust things and to forbidde the contrarie Is this onely ment of lawes to punishe Heretikes Againe The Ensample of the King of Niniue that it apperteyned to the Kinges charge that the Niniuites shoulde pacifie Gods wrath Was thys onely mente of making lawes for punishing Heretikes What Heretikes were in Niniue Heathen Idolaters there were store but of Heretikes we read none And who made the decree of their fasting and repentance not the Prophete he onely denounced the wrath and iustice of God nor highe Priest of Aarons order was there any among them that the Scripture mencioneth Idolatrous Priestes no doubt they had more than ynowe but the lawe of that Ecclesiasticall discipline was not set out by them but by the King. Generally to conclude Saint Augustine sayth that the auncient actes of the godly Kinges mencioned in the Propheticall Bookes were figures of the lyke factes to bee done by the godlye Princes in the tyme of the newe Testament Were nowe these theyr doynges and auncient actes nothing else but lawes and constitutions for punishing Hereâ—…ykes and false teachers Were all the constitutions and doyngs of Moyses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias and others nothing else Master Stapleton but this O good GOD that euer any that shoulde professe the studie of diuinitie shoulde be founde so false and shamelesse not onely thus to dallie with Princes but also to delude the fathers and the Scriptures and all to enfringe and takeaway the Princes interest and authoritie Nowe that ye haue thus in your first part brought the matter about giuing a graunt in wordes and expounding the wordes haue taken away the graunt againe ye enter into your seconde part to set a fresh on vs as ye did in your former Chapter would make these testimonies of S. Aug. to serue against vs which ye go about two maner of ways First hauing nowe abridged the princes authoritie to nothing else but to make lawes to punish Heretikes ye crie out vpon vs that we be the heretikes and that they must punish vs â–ª Secondly ye woulde proue that we be the Heretikes to be punished for denying euen this title to Princes of punishing Heretikes And for the first part ye say But nowe that master Horne may not vtterly leese all his labour herein let vs see howe these matters do truely and trimly serue agaynst his deare brethren and master Foxes holy Martyrs Here is all made sure on euery side euery way preuented least the poore â—…elie Protestants shoulde escape your violence by any starting hole First you your selues our enemies will onely haue the making of the decrées and lawes what shall be true religion what shall be false Secondly the Prince shall haue nothing to doe in examining the matter betwéene vs who haue in déede the true religion who haue the false but they must beléeue before hand that that which you shall say against vs is
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
replie vvill declare Hovv vvell so euer he hath played his partes full ilfauoredly you begin to plaie yours M. Stap. thus to wrangle about the partes of opponent and answerer The B. playeth not the opponent but you playe the Marchant The B. not in playe but in truth good earnest as M. Feckenham pretendeth to 〈◊〉 requireth to be satisfied answereth to his requestes by the foresayde proues that here ye confesse he bringeth forth The partie opponent as in the other scruples still is M. Feckenham But be he opponent or defendaÌ„t as either of theÌ„ in respects may be either if he bring those proues that ye graunt he doth ye haue litle occasioÌ„ to make a playe scoffe at the matter Neither doth this blemish the truth froÌ„ whom he had it wher with ye would séeme as it were with an awke blowe to foyle the B. learning that he founde out these prooues not all by his owne studie but by the helpe of his friends Which as you M. Stapleton for your owne parte were faine to confesse right now so is there no cause ye should measure the Bishops knowledge by your owne defecte But herein ye do but as the residue do this is the fashioÌ„ of all your coÌ„péeres Where truth faileth you â–ª at the least to winne a credite of learning to your selues like prowde Pharisies ye dispise al other besides your selues To which purpose as M. Stapl. would staine the Bishops godly and learned labour herein at the least that all might not séeme to be his owne but gathered by others to his hands so in the telling of his owne well ordered péece of worke he setteth out euery point to the vttermost to coÌ„mende the better vnto vs his great learning industrie and perspicuitie He telleth vs solemnly how to the first parte he replieth in three bookes how he hath deuided eche booke into seuerall chapters what he hath noted at the toppe of eche page But he telleth not what common places he hath set out in eche line He telleth how he hath exceedingly lightned the matter and what recapitulations he hath made thereof To the second parte he telleth vs it shall appeare but when he telleth vs not both what strong and inuincible arguments M. Feknam right learnedly proposed as most iuste causes of his said refusall And also vvhat â—…ely shiftes and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maynteine that obstinately vvhich he once conceaued erroneously And thus forsoothe nothing to the prayse and setting forth of him selfe M. Feckenham nor to the blemishing of his aduersarie hath M. Stapleton deuided the content of the Bishops answere and his counterblast thereto Now thinking with this preiudice of both their labours he hath sufficiently affectionate the Reader to his partie thirdly he entreth into a generall fore warning of him the effect whereof is to forsake this religion which he beginneth with this earnest adiuring of him Novv good Reader saith Master Stapleton as thou tendrest thine owne saluation â–ª and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of heauen so consider and vveigh vvith thy selfe the importaunce of this matter in hande What hope of saluation M. St. can the Popish doctrine bréede that alwayes doubteth as much of damnation as it hopeth of saluation haÌ„geth wauering betwene dispayre hope admitting no certentie of faith or trust to grouÌ„de vpoÌ„ The attenâ—…ion that ye desire in the Reader we as earnestly desire the same also neither that he come to reade attentiuely with any preiudicate opinion on either parte as you would haue his minde foresâ—…alled on your side but euen with indifferencie as he shall finde the matter in hande to leade him so to weigh and consider the importance thereof euen as he tendreth and verely hopeth his ovvne saluation And as the Reader shall do this for his parte so let vs sée how you do for yours and of what great importance your arguments are to sturre vp this earnest attention in the Reader The first argument that ye make is this First vvithout authoritie is no religion Then if this Religion vvhereby thou hopest to be saued haue no authoritie to grounde it selfe vppon vvhat hope of saluation remayning in this religion canst thou receyue Now as though the Maior were in controuersie and the pointe we sticke vpon he first solemnely strengthneth it with the authoritie of S. Augustine For no true religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receaued vvithout some vvaightie force of authoritie As for the Minor which determineth nothing but hanging on a conditionall pinne maketh no directe conclusion too or fro We graunt him that iâ—… our religion haue no authoritie no hope of saluation can be grounded thereon But then he replieth If it haue any authoritie it hath the authoritie of the Prince by vvhose supreme gouerment it is enacted erected and forced vpon thee other authoritie hath it none Ergo For want of sufficient good authoritie it is no true Religion Ye desired right now M. St. euen as the Reader tendreth his ovvne saluation to consider and vveighe vvith him self the importance of this matter And is this all the importance of your first argument against our Religion that the Reader should weigh coÌ„sider so déepely What is here alleaged besides a bolde and manifest slaunder forced vpon the Reader by the authoritie onely of your bare woorde Which the more the Reader shall consider and especially thus your beginning for an handsell of good lucke to the residue he shall the better perceaue the falshood and impudencie of your whole cause dealing For to set one If against another If the reader better coÌ„sidering weighing with himself shal finde this religioÌ„ not to be of so late enacting erecting forcing but enacted erected and forced of God in his holy woorde shall not this coÌ„sideration detect you to be a malicious slauÌ„derer if the reader with al shall vveigh the peise of your argument that the Prince hath a supreme gouernment in all Ecclesiasticall causes Ergo the Religion that the Prince sets forth hath noâ—…e other authoritie but of him shal be not finde it like the father of it as light as a thing of nought But exhorting the Reader to vveigh and consider the matter not considering nor vveighing what ye say your selfe ye blunder on in your Ifs and say If then that supreme gouernment that hauing none other authoritie enacteth erecteth and forceth a Religion vpon thée be not due to the laie Prince but to the spirituall Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the vvhole spiritualtie thou â—…eest thy ReligioÌ„ is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede Here whether he be ashamed to set it downe or thinketh it so cléere it néedeth not recital but is inferred of the Maior he leaueth out the Minor of his argumeÌ„t But that supreme gouernment is due to one chiefe spirituall magistrate only and to
that vve vvere baptised in Sée what a wicked slaunder to couer your disobediēce ye charge your most gratious prince withall as though she went about to make you renie that fayth ye vvere baptised in And this ye doe euen where ye pretende to kneele on your knees vvith moste humble and lowely submission Sée what cankred hearts ye beare for all your counterfayte crouching If ye knowe M. Stap. the fayth ye were baptised in at least if ye were rightely baptised and be a true Christian man it is not in the name fayth or obedience of the Pope but in the name fayth and obedience of the father the sonne and the holy ghost and this fayth the Q. maiestie goeth so little about to haue you abandon that hir Graces supreme gouernemēt is chiefly directed to this end to haue ye without any superstition error idolatrie or any other pollution therof kéepe maintein it inuiolate as in baptisme ye promised to do and therfore this is not subiect like though ye be on your knees neuer so muche to accuse hir highnesse as to cause ye to abandon the fayth ye were baptised in She requireth ye to kéepe it not abandon it neither on the soden nor at leisure And if this were all the cause of your refusall of obedience as hir Grace neuer denied you it ye doe but slaunder hir so néeded ye not haue runne away nor shew yet such disobedience to hir authoritie since she euer graunted and maynteined the thing ye séeme to craue Howbeit your counterfeite humilitie detecteth it selfe to be very stubborne disobedience And that while ye pretende to craue one thing ye entende another thing And that is ye would be borne with still to refuse her graces supreme authoritie ouer you in Ecclesiasticall causes this is the thing in deede ye meane and ye would the rather be borne withall bicause it is a matter that commeth vpon the sodaine therefore ye can not vpon the sodaine graunt it In déede M. St. ye pretende reason Weightie matters require not to be done on a sodeyne passion but with deliberation ▪ But is this so sodeyne a matter yet vnto you did ye neuer heare of this questiō before haue ye not had leasure to deliberate thereon but who seeth not that and ye had neuer so much leasure this matter would still come vpon the sodeyne to you and of reason ye must haue time to take aduisement vpō it which you will take all at your leasure and so for feare ye should become an obedient subiect vpon the sodeyne ye craue to remayne still vpon deliberation an obstinate enemie But M. St. pretēding this refusall to be for the abandoning of the faith that we were Christened in procéedeth And as we are assured all our auncetours and her Maiesties owne most noble progenitours yea her owne most noble father King Henrie the eight yea that faith which he in a clerkly booke hath most pithily defended and thereby atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthie title and stile yet remayning in her Highnesse of the Defendour of the Faith. As ye slaunder most wickedly the Quéenes Maiestie to cause ye to abandon the faith of your baptisme ▪ so ye slaunder not only al our auncestors but that most famouse Prince her highnesse Father K. Henrie the 8. as christened in the faith of the Popes obedience hereof ye say ye are assured when it is most assured most euident false For although our fathers the Q. Maiesties father also yea many of vs our selues the Q. Maiestie also her selfe were borne and baptised when all the errours of poperie or many of them did chiefly abounde yet can no more any one of these be said now to be baptised in those errours that they helde which baptised them if they kept the right formall words of baptisme I baptise thée in the name of the Father of the sonne of the holy Ghost thā in the old time any of their childrē or they themselues could be saide to be baptised in such errours as they helde that were Nouatians Donatists Rogatists Pelagians or any other Heretikes that notwithstāding kept the right element formal words of baptisme Neither can any Papist say now to any that dissuadeth him from his popish errours that he goeth about to will him to abandon the faith wherein he was baptized any more thā a Pelagian or any such Heretike being moued to forsake his heresie could pretēd he were moued to forsake the faith he was baptised in bicause they that baptised him yea his auncesters before him were Pelagians c. Ye should therefore M. St. make your distinction betwene the faith of your baptisme and the faith that your popish Church putteth in diuers erronious pointes of doctrine As for the faith that K. Henrie the 8 ▪ the Q. Maiesties most noble Father set out in the Booke that ye mencion therby labour to stayne the Q. Maiestie as setting out a contrarie faith to her father as you for your parte M. St. shew your extreme malice nothing subiectlike to blemish her highnesse with the famous renown of her father which notwithstanding ye cā not do so for the King her father I answere you howbeit his booke were clerkly yet clerklines is one thing truth is an other what maruel if he thē wrote in defence of your doctrines whē your popish prelates hid the very truth frō him bore him in hand that your falshoodes were truth till it pleased God not to suffer so noble a Prince to be any longer deluded by such false prelates but first in this question after in other according to the measure of his merciful riches reueled the truth vnto him how chance ye speake not of his faith then what clerkly sincere doctrine he set out thē against your Pope And as for the Q. Maiestie herein which is the proper questiō now in hād followeth most zealously the steppes of her highnesse father not wherein he was abused as many other princes were by false teachers but in that he forsooke those errours he abolished those false teachers their captaines vsurped authoritie in that he obeyed the truth reueled to him before all his own clerkly bookes before all worldly glory securitie aduentured himselfe his kingdome against all his enemies in setting forth the truth gouerning his subiects after the word of god Which though it were not so plentifully set forth then nor all wéedes so thoroughly rooted vp by reason of some false Gardiners whom he trusted ouer much howbeit at lēgth thanks be to God he espied them also had procéeded furder if God had lent him furder life yet is he rather to be commended for that he did than to be euil spoken or euell thought of for that he could not throughly bring to passe in his time but left his most vertuouse Sonne King Edwarde to bring to more perfection
ought to counte the Canonicall scriptures in so much that I might not their honour which is due to those men saued improue or refuse any thing in their writinges â–ª c. And writing to Paulina of the credite to be giuen to the Scripture Alijs vero testibus c. As for any other witnesses saith he or testimonies whereby thou arte moued to beleue ought to be it is lawfull for thee to beleeue it or not to beleeue it And so saith S. Herome Quod scripturae sacrâ—… authoritatem non habet eadem facilitate contemnitur qua recipitur That that hath not authoritie of the holy Scripture is as easily dispised as receyued So saith Chrysostome Nullis omnino credendum nisi dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sunt scripturis sanctis Thou must beleue none without they say or do those things that are agreeable to the Scriptures And againe Si quid absque scriptura dicitur c. If any thing be spoken without the Scripture the knowledge of the hearers halteth nowe graunting now staggering now and then detesting the talke as vayne now and then as probable receyuing it But wheras the scripture is there the testimonie of Gods voice commeth forth both confirming the talke of the speaker and confirming the minde of the hearer So S. Cyprian Legat hic vnum verbum c. Let him reade the onely woorde and on this commaundement let the christian religion meditate and out of this scripture he shall finde the rules of all doctrine to flowe and to spring from hence and hither to returne what soeuer the Churches discipline doth conteyne So saith Cyrill Necessarium nobis est diuinas sequi liter as in nullo ab earum prascripto discodere It is necessâ—…rie for vs to follow the diuine writinges and to swerue in nothing from their prescript rule And 〈◊〉 these Fathers so all the Doctours be plaine not to allow much lesse to determine any doctrine not onely contrarie but also besides the worde of God. Nor the Auncient doctours onely but also diuerse of the popish writers affirme that neither the Churche the Bishops the Pope nor any prouincial or generall couÌ„cel hath powre to determine any doctrine to be true or false otherwise than onely by the authoritie of the Scriptures to declare them so to be So saith Thomas of Aquine In doctrina Christs Apostolorum c. In the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles all truth of faith is sufficiently layde forth Howbeit to beat downe the errours of heretikes and of peruerse men certaine opinions of faith ought many times to be declared And of the same minde also is your great captaine Frier Alphonsus de Castro who attributing farre more to the popish Church and the Pope than he ought to do yet in this point after long disputation and argumentes on the matter he concludeth Nullo ergo modo c. It can by no meanes therefore be that the church may make any new article of faith but that the which before was the true faith and yet was hidde from vs the churche by hir censure maketh that it may be knowne vnto vs Whereuppon appeareth that my Lord Abbate did miserably erre who expounding the chapter that beginneth Câ—…m Christus which is had in the booke of the Decretall epistles in the title de Hereticis saith that the Pope can make a newe article of the faithe But he must be borne withall being ignorant nor well weighing of what thing he spake this onely I see must be laide in his dish that he Iudged beyond the slipper for it is not the office of Canonistes to Iudge of heresie or of faith but the office of Diuines to whom Gods lawe is committed The Canonistes partes are to descant of the Popes lawe Looke they to it therefore least while they couet to sit on both stooles the taile come to grounde as is the Prouerbe Thus sharpely concludeth Alphonsus against my Lord Abbate and all popish Canonistes that would intermedle with writing in Diuinitie I knowe not whether you Master Stapleton were any such or nâ—… but many of your site are euen such as he speaketh of that woulde studie bothe the Popes lawes and Gods lawes togither and so lay them both in the duste For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christi Behal VVhat felowship is there betwene Christ and Belial Thus writeth he that neither the Pope nor his 〈◊〉 nor the Church can determine faith or hereâ—…ie without the worde of God. And so saith Ferus Cum contâ—…leris falsaâ—… doctrinâ—…m c. When you shall conferre the false doctrine ye shall finde out the errour For the onely holy Scripture is the rule of the truthe from the which whatsoeuer differeth or doth contrarie it is darnell and errour in what countenaunce soeuer outwarde it come forthe For he that is not with me is against me saith Christe Herevppon the Apostles and Disciples in the primitiue Churche did dayly search the Scriptures whether they were so or no. For oft time it commeth to passe that that is iudged errour which is not errour and contrarie wise Here therefore the Scripture iudgeth So Christe was Iudged a transgressour of the lawe but if ye conferre him with the Scripture you shall see he agreeth best therewith On the contrary the traditions of the Phariseys seemed good which not withstaÌ„ding Christ conferring with the Scripture plainly sheweth they are contrarie to the Scripture And therefore Dauid in all that octonarie desireth nothing els but to be directed by the worde of God. And the same Ferus in the eleuenth chap. of Matthew Baculus arundâ—…neus est quicquid extra verbum des traditur c. VVhat soeuer is giuen without the worde of God is a rodde of a reede For it is al onely the worde of God which we may safely leane vppon in so much that from hence thou mayst see what frowarde deceyuers they be that for the worde of God would onely set foorth vnto vs their dreames that is a rodde of a reede Hereuppon the true Apostles gloried most of all on this that they deliuered nothing but the woord of God so saith Peter Not following vnlearned â—…bles we make knowne to you the powre and presence of our Lord Iesus Christe so Paule doth glory that he receyued not the Gospell of men but by the reuelation of Iesus Christe Whereon he inferreth if therefore any preache any other thing let him be accursed As though he shoulde say â–ª we haue preached the woorde of God whereto ye may safely leane â–ª accursed therefore be he that for the certayne worde of God bringeth a rodde of a reede that is to say mannes feigninges Thus hitherto agrée euen these Papists with the auncient Fathers that nothing may be decided to be true or false neither by Church Councell Pope or any Man nor any Angell with out the authoritie of Gods worde so to iudge and confirme the same But say you by this rule it
Pigghius who might for his writing be called Hogghius wel inough one of your chiefest porkelings in his defence of the inuocatioÌ„ of Saincts against the worde of God He groyneth out this saying Ego certè maiore ratione c. Truly I will with greater reason denie thee the authoritie of all the Scriptures than that thou shalt call me into doubte the beliefe and authoritie of the catholike Church since that vnto me the Scriptures haue no authoritie but all onely of the Churche What a wicked and swynish saying is this of a proude Popish borepigge against the euerlasting worde of God that it hath no authoritie at all from God the author of it but all from man all from the Churche of Rome for that is the Catholike Church that he meaneth the Pope his College of Cardinals and his assemblies of Priests for this they call the oecumenicall and representatiue Church All the authoritie that the worde of God hath it hath it from them alone Which if it were true then indéede as he saithe by better reason he may denie all the Scriptures than so much as call into doubt the beléefe and authoritie of the popish Bishops and Priests Why may they not then adde too and take from and make what and as many Ceremonies as they please and good reason to But since it is no reason that the worde of God should be thus trod vnder the foote of man that Gods worde should giue place to mans worde that Gods worde should haue all his authoritie of the worde of Priests and none at all of God that the Wiues worde should controll checke mate and châ—…ks vp hir husbandes worde that the wife may speake and appointe as much as she thinkes good and the husbande which hath but a few wordes to say can not be heard that the wiues worde should beare the streake and giue authoritie to the husbandes worde according to the common saying As the good man saith so say we but as the goodwife saith so it must be if this be no good reason nor any reason but cleane against all reason then may we replie to Pigghius and you M. St. that with better reason â–ª all your Churches authoritie and beleefe ought net onely to be called in doubte â–ª whether it agrée to Gods worde or no but also ought to depend wholy and onely on the authoritie of Gods worde And rather than the authoritie of the worde of God should be called into doubte much lesse denied as wickedly he presumeth to speake it were much better reason that he were cast into the sea as Christ saith and in sléede of a milstone that all his ceremonies were hanged aboute his necke all such blasphemous swine as this Pigghius were caried hedloÌ„g into the sea with him Yea saith Christ Heauen and earth shall passe but my worde shall not passe If your Catholike Church M. St. were the true wife and spouse of the Sonne of God she would with all lowlinesse humilitie reuerence here regarde obey Christ hir husbandes worde And be content to be commaunded by it not to countermaunde it not to thinke it were not of force vnlesse she gaue authoritie thereunto not to adde or diminishe to or from it not to commaunde one thing when he commaundes another not to compell the children and houshold of the faith to obserue hir worde more than hir husbandes not to haue twentie commaundements for hir husbandes tenne not to vse other fashions and customes than hir husband bids hir yea such as he forbids hir not to haue all the wordes and hir husbande not one worde yea to shut vp his mouthe and not to heare his worde these are impudent whores and bolde strumpets fashions a godly Christian matrone a vertuouse and faithfull spouse would neuer do thus But since your Church doth thus call hir catholike so fast as ye lust she is nothing else but a common catholike queane and not the humble and faithfull spouse of christ And your selues that defende hir haue good reason indéede to defende your Mother but such Mother such children that to holde with their mother dispise their Father and make hir worde to giue authoritie to his and say that with better reason they may denie the authoritie of their Fathers worde than so much as make a doubte of the beleefe and authoritie of their mother Yea that is a good ladde I warrant him and a well taught childe that will helpe the Mother to beate the Father is he not worthie his Mothers blessing for his labour but suche bastarde rebelles shal be sure of the Fathers curse For indéede they are not his Children Ues ex patre vestro Diabolo estis You are of your Father the Diuell Qui ex Deo est verba Dei audit propterea vos non auditis quia ex Deo non estis He that is of God heareth the worde of God therefore you heare it not bicause yeare not of God. The true children of God aboue all other thinges yea more than Father mother wife children fréendes yea than their owne life loue God and the hearing of his woorde Otherwise they were not worthie of god Thus do all the shéepe of Christ 〈◊〉 meae vâ—…cem meam audiunt My sheepe heare my voice As the Father hath bidden them Hunc audite c. This is my welbeloued Sonne in whom I am delighted heare him that is to say Leuell all your faith and life by the onely authoritie of his worde Who onely knoweth the Fathers will and in whom all the treasures of his fathers glorie are couched Who is the wisedome of God the truth the way the life and the worde it selfe The Sonne which is in the fathers bosome he hath declared it Heare him Auditus autem per verbum Dei But hearing commeth not by the Mothers authoritie but by the worde of God. Thus did the godly children vnto God whome we call Fathers vnto vs both before in Uigilantius time Nullum imitemur c. Let vs follow none saith Origen and if we will follow any Iesus Christ is set forth vnto vs to follow the Actes of the Apostles are described and we acknowledge the doyngs of the Prophets out of the holy volumes that is the firme example that is the â—…ounde purpose which who so desireth to follow goeth safe Thus also saith Cyprian both for Gods worde for your Mothers ceremonies The Heretike saith let nothing be deuised of newe besides that which is by tradition deliuered From whence came this tradition came it from the authoritie of the Lorde and of his Gospell or came it from the commandements of the Apostles and their Epistles for indeede that those things which are written ought to be done God witnesseth and setteth forth to Iesus of Nauee saying let not the booke of this law departe out of thy mouth but thou shalt meditate therein day and night that thou obserue all things
Dauids bagge will make you M. Stap. so tottle vp your héeles that we may safely cutte off your head the Pope euen with your owne weapon for all these your cries and crakes But like a lustie champion as though ye had made a sufficient conquest ye say ye wil forbeare at this time to speake of the residue of our noble progenitours Coragiously sayde M. St. when ye haue done the worste ye can and spit out all your poyson then tell vs ye wil forbeare vs Wel then at the length thaÌ„ks be to God ye haue done with our ancestors as ye cal theÌ„ haue ben answered as ye haue heard Now let others in gods name iudge of vs both as they shal find the falshood or veritie of these matters May it nowe please you M. Sta. to giue me leaue a while to runne at randoÌ„ the same race that you haue done and to vse your owne words Good sir may it please you fauorably to heare your and your masters honorable pedegree and of their worthy feates and prowesse First what say you to the Phariseis that seuered them selues from all the people in their strange apparell in their fastings prayers and other poynts of hypocrisie described out by Christ in so much that they preferred them selues aboue al men so were counted as in whoÌ„ religion did only or most consist so like in euery poynt to your Monkes and Friers deuided froÌ„ other men by their rules profession and estéemed called onely or chiefly religious men VVhat say ye agayne to the Phariseis that kept the key of knowledge among them selues and would neither them selues enter in nor suffer other to enter but rather be blind guides and leaders of the blinde so like to your Prelates and you pretending to be the pastors of the people and kéepers of the worde of God but so to kéepe it that not only ye kept the people from it but for the most part your Priests were ignoraunt of it and blinder guides of the blinde then euer the Phariseis were VVhat say ye agayne to the Phariseis that brought traditions into the Church besides the worde of God and transgressed the worde of God for their traditions sake Wherin for one tradition of the Phariseis so brought in the Papistes haue brought in a score at the least and if I shoulde say an hundreth I spake within my bounds VVhat say ye to the same Phariseis that defended a maÌ„ might do all that the law commaundeth and obteine iustification and heauen therby But héere the Papistes go beyonde them that say we not onely may do all but more than all that euer God commaunded workes of counsel of voluntarie of supererogatioÌ„ like to the Foxe with more than a thousand wiles in coÌ„parison of the poore catte but the Phariseis herein were nothing stored like the Papists What say ye to the Saduces that sayde we haue powre frée will to do good or badde What say ye to the Esseni that liued in woods and solitary places and eate onely rootes and herbes counting all righteousnesse to consist in streight rules of life although herein you be but counterfeits to them and I do them iniuiurie in this comparison to you whose Friers Monkes Heremites and Anachores were nothing comparable but méere Pharisaicall hypocrites What say ye euen to Simon Magus your selfe with whom you charge vs that first began to mingle the Iewish and heathen ceremonies with Christianitie What say ye agayne to Simon Magus that would haue made sales of the giftes of the holy ghost as the Pope maketh sale of his Indulgences graces What say ye agayn to Simon Magus that came to Rome and there was honored as God as the Pope not like Gods viâ—…ar as he pretendeâ—… but like God him self is there honored and claimeth here in earth to haue the power of God according as Simon Magus named him selfe the power of God. What say ye once againe to Simon Magus and all his ofspring that mainteyned filthie fornication as the Pope doth stewes courteianes and Concubines What say ye to the Heretikes called Sethiani Of whome saith S. Augustine Multa de principatibuâ—… potestatibus vanâ—…ssima 〈◊〉 They faigne many moste vaine thinges of principalities and powers according as do your fabling bookes of the celestiall Hierarchies in the name of Diâ—…nisius and other like What say ye to the Carpocratians that to mainteine their wicked liues false opinions did say that Iesus taught those things to his Disciples and Apostles aparte from his written worde and deliuered them by tradition to be kept as the Pope and all the Papistes say for defence of traditions and vnwritten verities as they call them besides the written worde of Christ. What say ye to the Cainites that made inuocation vnto Angels but the Papistes made inuâ—…cation not only to Angels but to dead men and women also yea and to thinges vnsensible What say ye to the Theodotians that would take from and put to the worde of God and that they had authoritie to correct thâ—…se things that were not well and saide they were therein wiser than the holy Ghost as do the Papists adde to the worde of God their traditions and suppresse and â—…iminish the authoritie of Gods worde saying their Church is of greater authoritie by them and they haue furder knowledge of Gods spirite than is contâ—…ined in the written worde of God. What say ye to the Basilidians that to their Disciples commaunded â—…ue yéeres silence as your Monkes Friers Heremites Anaâ—…hores c. enioyned to their nouices silence at certaine times and did all by beckes and noddes and if a worde were spoken all their perfection were marde What say ye moreouer to the Basilidians that painted and carued the Image of Christ and worshipped it As I haue shewed the Papists did what kinde of worship socuer ye would excuse the matter withall What say ye to the Cerdoniaus that reiected the ensamples of the old Testament as you M. St. and M. Dorman in this controuersie of supremacie do What say you to Montanus that first appointed lawes of fasting which before were frée as is shewed already in the Article thereon That said the holy Ghost taught him more and better greater things than Christ taught in the Gospell as your Papistes say for their vnwritten verities and workes of supererogation Ascribing a greater perfection to such voluntarie workes than to the workes expressed and commaunded in the worde of God. What say ye againe to the Montanistes that abrogated the authoritie of Gods wâ—…rde as I haue shewed ye in Pigghius and Alphonsus that the Papistes do What say ye againe to the Montanistes that boasted much of mysteries but nothing so many nor so mystie as the Papists were That said to accuse and condemne themselues to be sinners was to sclaunder them selues as the Papists that can not abide
his writinges condemned them Is not this I pray you the vsuall practise of your Apostles Luther and Caluine of M. Iewell and your owne too in this booke as I trust we haue and shal make it most euident And heere let M Dawes beare you companie too in the craftie and false handling of his own deare brothers Sleidans story where he leaueth out Alexander Farnesius Oration to the Emperour wherin he sheweth the Protestants dissentions If this be an argument to proue a Donatist belike your Popes Boniface and Innocent learned it of them so impudently in the publique conference and Councel at Carthage to alleage lay foorthe and presse muche vpon the Nicene Councell as making for their superioritie though all the true Copies therof condemned them as impudent corrupters of the fathers Decrées What fathers bookes and Councels haue these Popes successors spared since to falsefie chalenging authoritie ouer all fathers and Councels to do with theÌ„ as they please And as the Popes own sonnes this is not onely the vsuall but the chiefe and almoste the onely practise of all Popish writers in the alleaging of the fathers euen as the diuel alleaged the Psalmes to christ Neither do you onely corrupte the fathers bookes but father on them whole bookes of your owne deuisings falsified in the fathers names as Erasmus exactly obseruing hath founde out many suche euident corruptions As for vs thankes be to God ye name not one father corrupted by Luther Caluine the Bishop of Sarum or of Wint. nor of any other as yet Onely ye finde faulte with M. Dawes for omitting an Oration in Sleydan no auncient father but a late Hystoriographer I knowe not his consideration in good sooth M. St. if I did I would answere you But he is a liues man and can answere you him selfe Your argument is very fond to inferre a Donatist herevpon yea be it that we were culpable in this behalfe as it is but your flaunderous lye and yet be it further that it were any argument to proue a Donatist not onely the parties whome ye name haue proued your good masters Donatistes but your selfe would proue your selfe to be as great a Donatist as the best Sixthly ye say The Donatistes to get some credit to their doctrine preteÌ„ded many false visions and miracles and they thought that God spake to Donatus from heauen and doth not M. Foxe in his dunghill of stinking martyrs pretily followe them therein trowe you So clenly M. St. your thethorike procéedeth from those swéete lippes of yours Ye chaleÌ„ge M. Foxe with vnsauery termes ye proue or improue nothing agaynst him Onely ye scoffe at Luthers visions and tell vs a tale of a man in Hungarie I can not tell where nor whome feigning him selfe to be dead and pretending to be raysed agayne to life to confirme the doctrine of the Gospell but in conclusion was found to be dead in déede Hath not say you the like practise ben attempted of late in Hungarie to authorise the new Gospel by pretending to restore life to an holy brother feigning him selfe to be dead and by the greate prouidence of God founde to be deade in deede What witnesse of this M. St Forsooth aske your fellow if ye lie I warrant ye he wil say all is true and who shall proue him a lyer that the partie would so haue faigned him selfe to be dead or would by such toyes go about to coÌ„firme the Gospell of Chryst whome whispered he in the care while he was on liue that he ment any such matter Wel the partie is dead ye say then say I it is easie for a false varlet thereby to deface the Gospell to deuise a lie by a dead body or so suborite or bribe another to witnesse a lye For the partie ye say is dead â—…us Leâ—… 〈◊〉 mordeâ—… a dead Lion they say bytes not But if he be dead presupposing there were any such thing in déede God sende grace there were no false packing to murther him amoÌ„g you then to say so by him I haue heard of such Popish shifts ere now But howe soeuer the matter were yea graunt it had bene so that some noughtie fellowe had attempted suche a wickednesse is the same to be obiected to the Protestantes or the Gospell of Christe to be defaced therby or not rather the more to be confirmed therby that God abhorreth suche false meanes to set out his truth and destroyeth suche dissemblers as he did Ananias and Saphira and wil haue his truth simply and playnely set foorth as thankes be to God therfore it is in many places and with good successe and encrease he blesseth it No no M. St. and that ye know full wel we vse no such false visions or feigned miracles to further Gods truth no we seeke no visions or miracles at all but séeke the truth it selfe It is the practise of your Church to coÌ„meÌ„de your false doctrine vnto the simple by pretending many false visions and miracles What haue ye else for purgatorie but a number of reuelations that were shewed forsooth to such or such a Monke or Frier what else for deuising all the sectes of Friers and Nonnes but such and such a reuelation What haue ye for your Ladies Psalter for hir Rosarie for hir feast dayes for the inuocation of Saincts for the most of al your truÌ„perie in the Masse Diriges for Reliques shrines and pilgrimages for worshipping this or that sainct departed but your feigned reuelations your false visions and miracles â–ª Looke your Legends who shall your paltry Friers postils your Louanian scholemen looke who shall on Marulus reuelatioÌ„s on Tundalus visions on S. Bridgets reuelations on the miracles of the blessed Uirgin set out in Latine and Englishe c. He shall finde for this poynt such stuffe that both his eares will glowe to reade it And these practises are not deuised by vs agaynst you in the name of a dead man but they are set out in print and published by your selues in good sad earnest to deceiue the simple withall If therefore this be an argument to proue Donatistes by then as it cleareth vs that seeke no suche meanes so it proueth you to be Donatistes that in thus many poyntes of your religion stande so muche thereon Seuenthly say you Did not the Donatistes preferre and more esteeme one National erronious Councel in Aphrica than the great and generall Councell at Nice keepe not ye also this trade preferring your forged conuocation libell before the generall Councell of Trident. And this is set out with a Marginall note They preferre a Nationall Councell before the Generall As for forged Libels is but your forged lye master Sta. if we preferre a Nationall Councell before your Generall no maruell the legge of a larke is to be preferred before the body of a Kyte If ye crake of Generalitie for the multitude once agayne you make your selfe a craking Donatiste althoughe in déede there were no suche
â–ª are by the Churche giuen vp and deliuered By the Churche that is say you onely by vs that are the Priests Heretikes ye say are first giuen vp by the Churche vnto the ciuill Princes sharpe lawes do ye not héere make your selues onely the Churche Yea do ye not make these two distincte members the Church that giueth them vp and the Prince to whose sharpe lawes the partie condemned is giuen vp and so exclâ—…de the Prince from the Church as no member at all therof And héerein ye agrée or rather are worsse than they So that still the similitude holdeth betwéene M. Feckenham and the Donatists bothe of them refusing the olde Testament for the proofe of Princes supreme gouernement Yea although the Donatists had gone further than the Papistes do where in déede the Papists go further than did the Donatistes what soeuer liberalitie ye pretende to giue Princes to deale in religion wherin ye dare be bolde ye say But yet for all that M. St. be not ouer bolde in allowing Princes a dealing in religion for feare your friendes that allow not Princes so muche as to talke of religion count your boldnesse to procéede of Bayards blindnesse Although your self espying by by your ouer hardie and hastie boldnesse step backe agayn and so qualifie this your bolde graunt of Princes dealing in some eccl. matters that in conclusion ye say as the Donatistes saide or rather giue Princes lesse than they did either making them the enrichers of your coafers whiche ye terme by the name of aduocates or defenders of the Church or else the executioners of your crueltie and to deale not one ioâ—…e further Which béeing no ecclesiasticall matters at all excepte to defende or put a man to death be an eccl. matter your bold graunt that they should deale in some eccl. matters is so cunningly resolued that wheÌ„ all coÌ„mes to al they shal deale in none at all but onely be the defenders or executioners of them that are the onely dealers ther with Thus do ye play in words mockholiday with Christian princes Do ye think M. St. that Christian princes did nothing else nor had any other authoritie but this in punishing the Donatistes in S. Augustines time the wordes of S. Augustine are agaynst you the story of Cecilians cause dothe confute you yea euen the â—…ning refusall of the Donatistes sheweth the plainâ—… 〈◊〉 And thinke you if princes had at that time no fâ—…her authoritie to punishe the Donatistes than ye limit princes now that the Donatists would haue refused and cried out vpon the Emperors authoritie therein if they had béene but the onely executours of the fathers iudgementes Naye they woulde then haue cryed that the fathers as principall had had nought to doe therein and that the Princes were misruled by the fathers and that the fathers had made the Princes their executioners Thus no doubte would they and néedes muste they haue cried if they woulde haue cried out at all presupposing Princes had then no more to doe in matters of religion â–ª than the fathers woulde permitte appoynt and allowe them as you order Princes nowe But the Donatistes cryed not out so nor in déede they could but they cried out chiefly agaynst the authoritie of the Princes it argâ—…th then the Princeâ—… had the chiefe authoritie to sâ—…t foorth the true religion and to suppressâ—… theirs 〈◊〉 all other heresies and not the fathers and Byshops â–ª Nowe what difference is tâ—…ere betweene your crie and the Dâ—…ies VVhy say you is there no difference betweene al things and nothing Yes M. Stap. there is something betwixte them For who sayth the Prince hath or maye haue the doing of all thing obiecte it to them that say so We say the Prince hath vnder God the supreme gouernement ouer all things ecclesiasticall That is to say to ouersée and direct that all thinges be duetifully done by them to whom they belong Nowe in this behalfe you giue the Prince not so muche as any something but bare nothing vnder a name of something Whether then it be something or it be nothing ye still are lyke the Donatistes about this matter in euery thing Is there no difference say you to say the Prince shoulde not punishe an honest true man 〈◊〉 stead of a thiefe and to say he should not punishe a 〈◊〉 Yes for soothe M. Stap. there is a great difference But dothe this example also make any thing agaynst the Princes supreme authoritie in dealing in ecclesiastical matters Go too then let this stande for an example As the Prince though the right of his authoritie stretche not so farre that he should punishe an honest true man in steede of a thiefe yet to punishe a thiefe he hath authoritie so although the right of the christian Princes authoritie stretch not so far that he should punish a true and faythful Christian in stéede of a false théeâ—…ishe Christian A thiefe in this behalfe is he that followeth not the doctrine of Christ of whom he saith Omnes qui venerunt antâ—… me fures sunt latrones â–ª All that came before me were theeues and robbers bicause they rob God of his glory yet to punishe the very thiefe he hath authoritie Nowe M. Stapl. by what authoritie dothe the Prince punishe the thiefe dothe he not punishe him by his owne supreme authoritie next to God you will saye he punisheth him by his lawes But who maketh the lawe forcible doth not next vnder God the Princes supreme authoritie Yea what though the Prince him selfe sat not on him nor pronounced the sentence nor executed the punishement of the thiefe yet is not all this done by theirs to whome these offices appertayne but by the Princes supreme authoritie The Prince is not the Iudges executioner but the Iudge and the officer are the Princes If then your similitude holde euen there where it shoulde principally holde and in the matter in controuersie betwéene vs then that authoritie that the Prince hath to punishe spirituall theeues Idolaters heretikes false Prophetes c. is next vnder God his owne supreme authoritie And though he him selfe pronounce not the sentence on the heretike nor execute the punishment of him yet is it done by his supreme authoritie Nor the Prince is the Clergies executioner but the Clergie therin and the officers are rather the Princes executioners Thus ye sée howe your owne similitude directly and playuely applied maketh cleane agaynst you Now for the testimoâ—…ies that the byshop citeth out of S. Aug. to open and confuâ—…e the practises of the Donatistes which should hauâ—… sheweâ—… how like your doing had bene to theirs as though ye heard not on that â—…ide or as though ye would counterfeit the wise man your selfe that vseth not greatly to shew that that maketh agaynst him ye quite omit them saying As for S. Augustines testimonies they nothing touche M. Feck and therfore we will say nothing to them but keepe our accustomable
effectuall to the purpose we shall sée anon Onely now I note it to shew your former vntruth M. St. saying the Bishop onely cited a sentence or two out of the new testament besides your frowarde blindnesse the more to be noted herein For as there ye could not or would not sée this sentence as other that you omit likewise so here ye note particulerly nothing so much as this onely sentence yea you will not let escape the aduantage as you conceyued of one word yet the word and al when al is done maketh cleane against you For where in citing this sentence the B. by the way of a parenthesis alleged S. Augustines interpretation for the worde godlinesse to import the true and chief or proper worship of God M. Stap. obiecteth falsehood and vntrue reporte or at least mistaking of S. Augustine And concludeth thereon a generall 〈◊〉 so aptly and truely ye alleage your doctours Alacke master Stap. that ye shoulde be driuen to these thiftes that finding no iust matter wherein to improue the Bishop ye runne to such trifling quarels as this As though the Bishop had some great foyle by Saint Augustines wordes or they had bene so darke and mysticall that they coulde not lightly haue béene vnderstood Saint Augustines wordes are these Sed loquemar de hominis sapientia c. But we wil speake of the wisedome of man howbeit of true wisedome that is according to God the true chiefe worship of him which in one word is in Greke called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhich name our men as we haue alreadie declared willing also to interprete it in one woorde called it godlinesse VVhen godlinesse among the Greekes is more vsually called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bycause it can not perfitely be interpreted in one woorde is interpreted better in two woordes so that it is rather called Gods worship Thus farre S. Augustine and what is here that swerueth from the B. saying That S. Augustine interpreteth godlynesse the true worship of god Which as it is true in both wordes for what signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but ageed iust lawfull and godly worshippe so S. Augustine vnderstode it in both wordes although the one in vsuall speach want a proper Latine name as hath the other And likewise in our Englishe tongue while we would expresse Gods worship which is two wordes after the Latine and woulde terme it in one worde we call it Godlynesse as S. Augustine telleth howe the Latines called it Pietas True it is that S. Paule vseth the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the Bishop denieth not Neyther haue ye anye more fault to finde with his than with S. Augustines or any others traÌ„slation calling it godlynesse If ye be so angry that the Bishop shoulde say it meaneth Gods seruice why be ye not angry with your selfe Do ye not sée how like a blynde hobbe about the house as ye merily terme it ye râ—…p your selfe vpon the scâ—…nce for did not your selfe both in the beginning of this Chap. tell vs that in the first table consisted the true religion and spiritual seruice that is due from man to God And also euen in this your further finding fault ye confesse that by their peaceable gouernement we might with more quiet attende to Gods seruice and that this was S. Paules only meaning and no further which were it so yet thereby then â—…ement not onely godlinesse of lyfe but also Gods seruice as your self interpret it yet ye blame the Bishop for saying S. Augustine sâ—… interpretes it But the Bishop not only proued this to be S. Augustines minde by this sentence alone but by mâ—… sentences afterward all which it pleased you to let alone and go sneaking by them and come peaking in with this Howbeit euen in this to satisfie ye further ye shal sée that this is not only S. Augustines exposition by this worde Godlynesse to vnderstande Gods seruice and true religion but the exposition of other fathers also Chrysostome vnderstandeth this woorde Godlynesse so largely that it comprehendeth al truâ—…h offaith doctrine religion integâ—…itie of life also Omne inquit dogma c. Euery opinion saith he is made perfect not onely with godlynesse but also with integritie of life I or godlinesse is also to be sought for in that part For what auayleth it if keping the godlynesse of faith thou art wicked in workes Likewise S. Ambrose Vt in pacâ—… c. That in peace in tranquilitie of minde and quietly we myght serue God the Lorde c. That therefore these things might bee kept quietnesse is necessary that acceptable obedience might bee rendred vnto God. So Haiâ—…o Pietas â—…st â—…ulius religio oâ—…nipotentis des c. Godlynesse is the worship and religion of almightie God. So theÌ„ glosse interlined Cum omni pietate castitate with all godlynesse and chastitie id est â—…ultu religione integritate fides that is to say the worship and religion and integritie of fayth And Lyra himselfe In omni pietate id est cultu dei debite In all godlynesse that is to say in the dutâ—…full worship of God. So likewyse Hygh the Carâ—…inall In omni pietate in cultu religione diuina â–ª In all godlynesse that is in the worship and diuine religion Et 〈◊〉 integritate fides hac duo sunt necessaria vt fides interior seruetur incorrâ—…pta cultiu exterior diuinâ—… in omnibus teneatur And in chastitie that is in the integritie of faith these two are necessarie that the inwarde â—…ayth shoulde be kept incorrupted â–ª and that the outwarde worship should be holden in all diuine things This sufficeth to cléere the Bishop of wresting the signification of the worde Godlynesse affirming it to meane the true chiefe or proper worship of God contrarie to your péeuishe wresting although therein ye contrarie your owne selfe confessing also that it meaneth Gods seruice and yet ye quarrell thereat in the Bishop saying As though Princes hauing charge therof should also haue authoritie to appoint such worship If ye meane by appointing such absolute authoritie as your Pope vsurpeth that the appointment of what he please to appoynt for a worship and seruice of God belongeth to him it is but your ordinarie surâ—…ised slaunder and is the proper doing of your Pope If ye meane a charge to appoint or commaund that the only true religion which God hath appointed be set forth and by the ministers of God obserued It is playne the S. Paule and al these fathers ment no lesse Nay say you S. Paule speaketh here of no such or of any authoritie at all in Princes but only that by their peaceable gouermeÌ„t we might with the more quiet attende to Gods seruice What M. St speaketh S. Paule there of no authoritie at all in Princes saith he not in most plaine wordes for kings and all men that be in authoritie Haue those
of the othe or statute Why say you they all appertaine not to the inferiour ministerie whiche ye graunt to Priests and Bishops only but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernement which you doe annexe to the Prince only In déede these thinges you make to appertayne to youre Pope to whome ye giue such supreme iurisdiction and gouernement as annexeth all this to his papal authoritie But ye doe wickedly herein and iniurie to our sauiour Christe to whom only such supreme iurisdiction and gouernment belongeth and vnder whome the inferiour ministers maye do these things not as they please but as he hathe prescribed them The Iurisdiction and authoritie appertaineth onely to ministers bishops or priestes as ye call them To whome herein we doe not as ye sclaunder vs graunt only an Inferiour ministerie but euen an higher ministerie than wée giue to Princes In their spirituall ministration they are higher ministers but in gouerning them ouerséeing them directing punishing maynteyning placing or displacing them as they shall do their dueties well or yll the Prince therein is higher than they and his gouernement vnder God is supreme and chiefe in all suche causes as belongeth to the Ecclesiasticall persons or any other in his territories This is that the statute ascribeth and the othe requireth farre from youre malicious and sclaunderous slate of the question that you haue here deuised Whiche as ye say the truthe therein the Bishop proueth not for it is no part for him to proue But that this is the â—…slue he fully preueth Yea and proueth the full contentes of the Othe also to the whyche ye woulde so fayne driue the question nowe in hande After ye haue thus sette vp a false and wrong state and quarelled at the verie state of the question in hande playnly and truely set downe by the Bishop ye enter into your second part wherin prefixing an other marginal note Master Hornes dissembling falsehood ye chalenge the B. to omit two clauses of the statute the one at the beginning therof the other at the ende The former is this That no foraine person shall haue any maner of authoritie in any spirituall cause within this realme By whiche wordes is flatly excluded saye you all the authoritie of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche without the realme as in a place more conuenient towardes the ende of the laste booke it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued If that be a place more conuenient why doe ye anticipate it here not so conueniently where it appertayneth not to the question in hand The Bishop now medleth not with that parcell that excludeth all foraine authoritie but onely with that parte that expresseth what manner of authoritie it is that the Quéenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir And this the Bishop playnely and faithefully dothe not here intermedlyng with other pointes of the statute But where that conuenient occasion is there ye shall sée the Bishop touch that that here ye call for And there a Gods name answere hym if ye can But your fingers itched ye coulde not holde youre hande but néedes ye muste euen nowe haue a fling thereat for a farewell Althoughe therein ye proprely ouertourne youre selfe and yet to make somewhat of the matter yée playe all the false playe yée can For where the Statute mencioneth onely anye forraine persone to haue no authoritie you conclude that it excludeth all the authoritie of the whole bodye of the Catholike Churche withoute the Realme Where as there the Statute mencioneth not the catholike Churche at all And besides who séeth not a great difference betwéene these twayne any persons authoritie and the whole bodies authoritie And who séeth not withall that if England be a parcell and membre of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche of Christe and all the membres make one vnited bodie then neither is the whole bodie foraine to the members thereof nor the particular membres foraine to the whole bodie Nor in déede any parte of this mysticall bodie is excluded But in that respect that one countreyman is foraine to an other suche foraine authoritie of any foraine person is thereby excluded But in regarde of the bodye of the Catholike churche if ye meane Christes holie Catholike Churche there is neyther Iew nor Gréeke Scythian nor Barbarian nor any forayne Countreyman we are no straungers and forainers but Citizens of the Saintes and of the householde of God and all compacte in Christe nor any is excluded oute of this Churche if he be in and of this Churche bycause he is not forayne And where ye saye the whole bodie of the Churche without the Realme youre wordes implie a contradiction to themselues For if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the churche whiche perchaunce you will denye or if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the Churche whyche you wyll not denie then that which is without the realme is not the whole bodie as ye call it But lettyng this goe what is that authoritie be it of the most part or be it as you saâ—… of the whole bodie of the Churche without the realme that ye would haue the realme allowe If it be the verie Catholike church of Christe then is it also the wyfe and spouse of Christ and hath no authoritie to make any faith doctrine or religion besides that hir husband hath appointed neyther England Fraunce Germanie Italy Spayne or any other parte or all the whole bodie of this spouse hath authoritie to doe it And looke what parte doth not this or presumeth to doe otherwise becommeth foraine and as foraine is cut off euen as a rotten and putrified member seuered from the bodie Euery braunche sayth Christ that beareth not fruite in me my father will cut it away But if this authoritie be for such ecclesiastical discipline as Christ hath giuen therof no expresse coÌ„maundement then euery seuerall part may receyue or not receyue the same and yet is not estranged or made forrain from the whole corps of Christendome yea though the most parte of the churche besides authorised and vsed the same But euery particular Churche hath in it selfe authoritie to establish orderly suche disciplines as shall be thought best and fittest for their estate and yet is there no diuision or schisme from the whole thereby But sith ye referre your selfe to a more conuenient place where ye say it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued it is not much conuenient to stand any more hereon sith it is here but accessorie and ye confesse your self that ye doe not but ye will hereafter by Gods grace proue it euidently But I doubt me of two things the one of your euident prouing therof the other that ye will doe the same by the grace of God the dooing wherof is agaynst the grace of God. The other clause saye you you omitte at the ende of the statute whiche is this That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised
doo Will ye haue a woman weare a mans apparell it is flat forbidden by Gods worde Will ye haue a Quéene fight hir self in a battaile and breake a speare as a king may do In déed some mannish women as the Quéene of Amazons Thomyris Semiramis and other haue so doone but it is not sitting And by your owne reason the imbecillitie of theyr kynde doth cléere them And a number of such other things may be reckoned vp Shall we now saye the Quéene is not supreme gouernour ouer these persons and causes bicause hir selfe can not doe them Likewyse for a king that is a chylde you know he can not fight in battell himselfe neyther can he himselfe sit in iudgement and debate rights and wrongs in ciuil doubtes manie mo things can he himselfe not doe euen bicause as ye say he hath a defect in iudgemeÌ„t Hath he therfore in these ciuill and temporall thyngs no supreme gouernment Thus ye sée still your examples faile yea they make cleane agaynst you for as a supreme gouernor may wel be a supreme gouernor in those things that he himself can not do so a christeÌ„ princes supreme gouernmeÌ„t ouer al ecclesiastical persons in al ecclesiastical causes is nowhit hindred although the prince he or she yong or old can not do the functions ecclesiastical nor be an ecclesiast person The second argument is that he so often and al the Papists vse of the excellencie of the minister in his ministration aboue the Prince To this he citeth the saying of Saint Paule Let men â—…o esteeme vs as ministers of Christ and dispensers of his mysteries To whiche ministerie kings are not called And here is againe alledged the storie of â—…ziae that presumed to offer incense and was punished with â—…eaprie The effect of all the argument he knitteth vp thus Siergo minister c. If therfore the minister of the Church of Christ exercise a greater and more diuine ministerie than the king or any other prince howe is the king the Supreme heade of that churche wherein he seeth certaine ministers greater than himselfe I answere this is a fallation secundum quid ad simpliciter We graunt in the respect of his ministerie the minister is aboue all Princes But this pertayneth to the actions and function of the minister and not to the ouersight and direction that all those actions and functions be orderly done Nowe this béeing but a common argument Master Saunders vrgeth it further by comparison of eyther estate the Prince and the Priest from the olde Testament to the newe saying Ac nimirum illud c. And thys namely I seeme to take by my right the authoritie of any Christian king in his christian kingdom is not greater than was in tymes paste the authoritie of any Iewishe kyng among the people of the Iewes for if the Citie of God to whyche Chryste of his owne name hathe giuen a newe name maye verily bee the more woorthie but can not be inferiour to the Churche of the Iewes â–ª Surely then it followeth that a christian king ouer his christian kingdome can not obtaine more power than a kyng of the Hebrue nation did obteyne among the Hebrâ—…wes For howe muche the more any Common weale is subiecte too their earthly Kyng the authoritie of that common weaâ—…e is so muche the lesse But the authoritie of the Churche of Christe is not lesse than the authoritie of the Synagoge of the Iewes bycause in the churche of Christe those thinges were fulfilled to the verie image of the things whiche in the Synagoge of the Iewes were scarce figured by the naked shadowes As the truthe in deede in greater than the image so againe the image is greater than the shadowe but this is euident that the authoritie in times past of the only king is lesser than the authoritie of his christian kingdome or of hys Bishops But if it be so then the christian king which is both lesse than the church and the bishops of his kingdom cannot be immediatly vnder Christ the head of the churche This argument is intricate and full of many inuersed cringle crangles to shewe a face of déepe and subtill knowledge beyonde the simple mans capacitie whyche kynd of reasonyng is more suspicious than to edifying The effecte of the argument standeth all on this The greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the Priestes and the churche But the priestes and the churche haue not lesse authoritie but aboue a christian king Ergo the king hath not supreme authoritie To the Maior that the greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the priests and the churche he sayeth nothing And yet some what is to be sayde thereto it is not so cléere as he makes it For sith eyther of these thrée haue their authorities in dyuers considerations the Priests authoritie may be greater than the kings authoritie in one respecte that is of his diuine actions and ministerie and yet in an other of the gouernement and publike direction the kinges authoritie is greater than his And so althoughe the Churches authoritie in one respecte be greater than bothe the Kings and the Priestes as they are bothe but membres and children of the Churche yet in regarde that the one is a Pastour and the other a gouernour and both of them Fathers and guyders as it were vnto the church their authorities againe are greater than the Churches And this also sheweth the falshood of the Minor that the Priestes and the Churche haue not lesse authoritie but are aboue the prince Which is not true but in suche respectes as nothing hinder the supreme gouernement that we giue the prince But Maister Saunders to confirme this to bée simply true the prince to be inferior to the Priests and people will proue it by his comparison of the state of the olde and newe Testament And first he will haue the state of the olde Testament in the Churches gouernement to be a figure of the newe But in the estate of the old Testament the Prince was vnder the priest and the people Ergo it must be so in the new To the maior we graunte him the gouernment of the Church in the old testament to be a figure of the churches gouernment in the new testameÌ„t And remember this well that here M. Saunders buyldes vpon For if he himselfe shal be found to swarue from it afterwarde when he findeth it shall make agaynst hym then let him blame himselfe and let vs note bothe inconstancie and cantradiction in him who playeth the snayle puttyng in and out his hornes and will say and eate his worde as he thinketh best to his aduantage And this is the fashions of them all in the examples of the old testament as we haue séene the practise of M. Feckenham M. Stapleton which is a subtile false and vnstedfast kind of dealing But go to we denie the minor that in the state of the
eight a pyller of his subiecte â–ª vnder whom his subiectes lyued in suche prosperitie and abundance in 〈◊〉 renoune and glorie when all their 〈◊〉 â—…o dradde them for theâ—…oble conduct gouernment of such a Prince as all things considered we finde not the like in all the ancient histories Did he pill them that delyuered theÌ„ from the greatest piller and spoiler of them froÌ„ al his insatiable Caterpillers that had pilled the Prince the Sâ—… biectes and all the Realme and had gotten almoste all the goodes and lâ—…ndes into their clutches yea their bodies and soules also Did he pill the realme that brought the greatest ryches into the Realme the Gospell of Chryste and Christian libertie that euer the Realme could haue Ye quarel at the basenesse of the money Hath ther not bin worsse money in times past in Englande They saye that we had money of lether haue not the most of other Princes brasen coyne But I sée you haue a brasen face and a fonde malicious head Is the Princes coine counterfet with you and if it had bene a great deale worsse than it was can ye call it adulterate or forged No Saunders for here I must néedes leaue out Master such Traytors as you be are counterfeiters of money howbeit you are farre worsse traytors and forge a naughtie coine in the steade of Gods word to giue the people trifling traditions of your owne stampe and take good money for them You obiecte his wiâ—…es vnto him What meane ye by this ye wiuelesse and shamelesse generation ye dispisers and defilers of Matrimonie wold ye haue had him haue liued like you ye caused him in deede vnwittingly while hée ignorantly obeyed your Pope to liue wyth his brothers wife Whiche when he knewe he adhorred and forsoke as flatte againste Gods worde Thou shalte not vncouer the secretes oâ—… thy brothers wife And yet the Pope contrarie to Gods expresse lawe and the lawe of nature dispensed with it and you Papistes maynteine it tooth and nayle as a lawful maryage This in déede was his greatest misfortune to haue taken hir so long through too much credite of false Papistes to be his lawfull wife whiche was not his wife at all and yet both the parties ignorantly offended Aâ—… for his firste true and lawfull wife we maye saye indéede he had misfortune in hir too that he so muche credited the sclanderous vndermining Papists that neuer stinted to procure hir dâ—…ath for the hatred of the gospel that she professed And so at length most subtilly wrought it made hir a sweet sacrifice to God and a most holy martyr No misfortune but mosie happiâ—… hap to hir to sustaine so sclaunderdus a death in so innocent a cause the misfortune was the king hir husbandes to be so beguiled by such false Papistes And yet to vs this maryage was most fortunate which God so blessed with such a fruit as neuer the like did spring in Englande As for all King Heuries other wiues saue one were as as vertuous chast godly Quéenes as any Christian kyng coulde haue And yet the default of that one is not to be imputed vnto him which to die is more than cankred malice Lest of al ought it to be ascribed to the euent of his supreme gouernment Shoulde M. colsfolly be ascribed to Dauid yea shoulde a mans owne faults be accounted for the euent of his vertues should misfortunes following be déemed the effectes of godlynesse going before But you denie all this that this was godly to become this supreme gouernour and say king Henrie tooke it first vpon him But stay your haste Master Saunders When we come to the practise of christian Kings before king Henrie ye shall finde it contrarie and ye shall finde by that that is alreadie sayde to Master Stapleton that in the olde Testament Dauid Salomon Iosaphat c. toke vpon them this supreme gouernement in their kindomes that king Henrie dyd Ye say he was neuer the happier but the more vnhappier after he tooke it on him Whereas he neuer prospered better than after he had expelled the Popes vsurped authoritie For euen then began he indéed to raigne and rule other where before he bore the name of a king and was ruled by other the Pope his Prelates and Priestes hearing all the 〈◊〉 Besides the happiest happe of all the knowledge of God that by his supreme gouernement then beganne to florishe Nowe after his rayling on king Henrie he descendeth to king Edward the sixte saying And he beeing deade God by a maruellous manner shewed vnto all the world how litle this Ecclesiasticall Primacie and high calling was agreeable to kings For Henrie the eight being deade Edwarde his sonne a childe almost nine yere old succeeded in his kingdome If wee loke to the right that this childe had in the kingdome hee was no lesse king than his father was But if we turne our eyes vnto the state of the church verily there is a great difference whether it be gouerned of a childe or of a man of perfecte age Sée the insaciable malice of these Papistes not onely against the lyuing but the deade and that against their late most gratious soueraignes It suffiseth not to haue thus coÌ„tumeliously railed on the Quéenes Maiesties father of blessed memorie but also to deface hir Maiesties brother that most vertuous Prince king Edwarde saying he toke vpon him this Ecclesiasticall Primacie as though he or his father toke vpon him any ecclesiastical primacie bicause they toke vpon them a supreme gouernement in all ecclesiasticall matters But will he spare for spite to sclaunder them that presumeth to wrest and misconster Gods heauenly prouidence in calling king Edward to the kingdome while he was yet a child He graunteth he was as ful king as his father was Then say I he had al the right and authoritie that his father had But sayth he there is a great difference betwéene the right of a kingdome and the state of the Church whether it be gouerned of a child or of a man of perfect age As though we talked not M. SauÌ„ders of such a kingdome as were the Churche also or as though a kingdome consider it howe ye will require not likewise to be gouerned of one of perfecte age Or as though ther be not also a great differeÌ„ce betwene the right of authoritie belonging to the person be he child or maÌ„ and the personal gouerning of him But let vs heare M. Saunders arguments against a child He maketh exception against a child for two reasons first the example of Christe secondly the saying of S. Paule Cal. 4. Of the first he saith For if euen Christ toke not on him the gouernment of the Church before he attained to thirtie yeres of age how much lesse would he that the Church should be gouerned of a child I answere First the gouernment that Christ tooke at 30. yeares of age was
in his personal exercise of the ecclesiasticall functioÌ„ wherto a mature age is requisite But the kings Supremacie requireth no such personall exercise of ecclesiasticall function but is cleane another matter therfore this example of Christes age is impertinent Secondly we grauÌ„t the Churche shoulde not be gouerned of a childe in that respecte he is a childe in which consideration he is no king as you distinguished before betwene a man and a christiaÌ„ maÌ„ and ye must so againe distinguishe betwéene his nature and his person or his person and his office Nowe in regarde of his office the defecte of his nature is supplyed by those that represent him in his office and they béeing men of graue yeares and knowledge you can not iustly say the gouernement is committed to a childe The second argument is taken from S. Paule 4. Gal. Moreouer a childe so long as hee is a little one liueth vnder Tutors and gouernours and so the Supreme Heade of the Churche needeth another superior Head to gouerne and rule him and that not so muche by chaunce or fortune as by imbecillitie of his proper nature and the necessitie of the thing it selfe Howe can he therefore be the Supreme Head of the Church that liueth vnder an other head Ercept M. Saunders were bent pienishly to warble he would not reason thus knowing well inough that those of riâ—…er yeres which gouerne the kings person in his nonage be not his head and he a member or subiecte vnder them but they representing him he and they are but one in office and their gouernemente is not properly theirs but is the kings owne gouernemente And so the head hath no head ouer him but onely Iesus Christ. But M. Saunders foreseeing that by this reason he might make the childe no king at all of his kingdome which he before confessed that king Edwarde was as full king as his father he preuenteth the obiection and séeketh a scape to shifte it For if ye say by the same reason he is not king of his kingdome neither bicause he is compelled to gouerne that also by others the answere is easie it is no maruell if the lawe of man which placeth children ouer kingdomes by force of succession be founde imperfecte But it were greatly to be marueled if the lawe of Christ also whereby he placeth pastors ouer his Church coulde be accused in anie parte of imperfection For as Moses lawe brought nothing to perfection so on the contrarie the lawe of Christ lefte nothing vnperfect as whome it became to fulfill all righteousnesse Therefore there shall bee none much lesse anie chiefe head in the Churche of Christe the which by nature can not doe the office of an ecclesiastical head But a childe can neither teach nor baptize nor by anie meanes assoile the harder questions of the Gospell The answere M. Saunders as ye say is easie but is it a good answere it were an easie matter to answere if such easie answeres may serue that ye may say what ye will and contrarie your selfe too when ye finde an inconuenience And such an inconuenience as wipes away all your former reasons Neither can ye sufficiently aunswere it that if your reason hold of the defecte of the kings nonage while he is a chylde he may then be no gouernor at all no not in Temporall matters neither bycause therein he is gouerned of others also in that he is but yet a chylde and so in his kingdome shoulde become no gouernour at all But for an easie answere to this ye saye this is a defecte in the lawe of man. Why M. Saunders do ye nowe make this the lawe of man that a chylde myght be a King sayde ye not before and that more truely it was gods lawe Numeri 27. and Gal. 4. and cited for examples Ioas and Iosias and againe doe ye saye this is an imperfection in the lawe that is an imperfection in the person nay Maister Saunders the lawe of succession was good and perfecte Neither your sentence that ye cite of S. Paule the lawe brought nothing to perfection serues to this purpose Neither was the fault in the law but in the defecte of the obseruer But saint Paule speakes there of the morall law and of iustification which the lawe of God giuen by Moyses could not bring to perfection confuting an other error which the Phariseis the Pelagians and the Papistes holde But what is this to the present purpose Saint Paule complaineth not of the imperfection of the politike lâ—…w of the Iewes therfore this is manifestly wrested Ye obiect that Christs law is perfect as though S. Paules law Gal. 4. cited by your selfe for the kingdome of a child be not also the law of Christ and as for Christs law for the pastors of his Church â–ª we accuse it not to be imperfecte and yet in the pastors themselues there is no perfection althoughe Christes law for them be most perfect But what answereth this the purpose The Prince takes not the pastorall office on him nor to doe the office of an ecclesiasticall head as ye terme it nor to teache or baptise or astoyle the hard questions of the Gospell either in his noneage or in his full age either childe or man These are but your surmised sclaunders on the Prince But to deuise sclaunders is with you an easie answere Nowe vpon these argumentes against the supremacie of king Edward he knits vp his conclusion of the euent saying therefore sith God after not the best man calling him selfe the heade of the Churche did substitute a childe euen by the things themselues he admonished vs that that honour did not rightly agree to the father that was so euill applied to his sonne The more ye dâ—… still vnreuerently carpe at king Henry calling him not the best maÌ„ the more ye shew your cankred stomak M. Saunders that your selfe are one of the worst kind of meÌ„ whose malice no not death caÌ„ satiate But the more it redoundeth to the praise of that moste noble and vertuous king being holdeÌ„ for so much the better man of all good men how much the worse man such wicked men as you esteeme him ab illaudatis vituperari laudabile est it is commendable to be dscommended of discommendable men Your interpretatioÌ„ of a child succéeding him hath neither charitie nor truth neither can you frame anye good argumente on it but rather on the contrarie Where God so blessed the raigne of the childe that in so shorte a time so long rooted superstitions Idolatries were abolished and the word of God so truely and fréely set forth it argueth that God not onely liked the title of the father but also confirmed it in the sonne shewed well that the childhood of his person was no impediment to the authoritie of his office as you maliciously woulde wrest it After Kyng Edwarde ye come to Queene Marie saying Moreouer when men neither thus awaked
can be made among ChristiaÌ„s that either the bishops of any kingdom much lesse the B. of Rome for al kingdomes ought to know the causes of kings Emperors whether they be iust or vniust This generalitie can not iustly be inferred on such a specialtie For neither al kings estates 〈◊〉 like to this kings estate nor all Bishops estates like to this Bishops estate as by the causes aforesayd appeareth Fourthly I answer that as here is inferred no ordinary rule for Bishops to haue knowledge in kings Emperors cau ses froÌ„ the coÌ„trarie here is inferred an ordinary rule for kings Emperors to haue knowledge of B. causes For eueÌ„ at the kings 〈◊〉 althogh he wer an infaÌ„t had no more skil of religioÌ„ thaÌ„ of gouernmeÌ„t the text saith they put the crowneâ—… vpon him and gaue him the lawe in his hande And so saythe Lyra the testimonie that is the law wherein he was ordeined ought to studie and meditate and keepe it and cause it to be kept True it is that the high Prieste did teach him and the King did well so long as he was taught of so godly a father And therevpon maye well be inferred that Byshops maye teach Kings that vvhich is right before the Lorde But this teaching of the King inferreth no publike gouernement of the King which the Pope claimeth and M. Saunders pleadeth for The authoritie of teaching the King and the authoritie of gouerning the King are â—…arre different authorities That of teaching we graunt to Ioiada and to al Godly Byshops not to teach what they will but that vvhiche is right before the Lord. And to sée that they do this the Prince hath the lavve of God giuen into his handes so well as the crowne set on his head to shewe that although the Byshops mustâ—… teach true doctrine and Godly exhortatioÌ„ yet must the King haue knowledge to ouersée that it be taught â–ª as well much more than any other matters of his kingdoms What shall we say then to the popishe Byshops which will not giue the lavve of God into the Princes handes but wring it out of his handes that he should not knowe it but blindly followe such false doctrine and naughtie examples as they woulde teache him are these Byshops like to the Byshop Ioiada And if this king fel to Idolatrie when he wanted this good teacher how shall that King doe that neuer had suche a teacher and yet for all this teaching of Ioiada that was as it were a father to the King the King notwithstanding while he continued good bothe commaunded all the Priestes and taught them how they should deale in their oblations collections reparations and other thinges belonging to the Temple And Ioas saide to the Priestes all the siluer of thinges dedicated that be brought to the house of the Lorde c. Let the Priestes take it vnto them euery one of his acquaintance and they shall repayre the broken places of the house vvheresoeuer any decaye is founde And in the 23. yeare of King Ioas the Priestes had not amended that vvhich vvas decayed in the Temple Then King Ioas called for Ioiada the Priest and the other Priests and saide vnto them VVhy repaire ye not the ruines of the Temple Novv therefore receiue no more money of your acquaintance except ye deliuer it to repaire the ruines of the Temple Thus did the King not only knovv of the Priestes causes but called them before him yea euen his vncle Ioiada the high Priest also appointed an order vnto them how to bestow their offerings And when they were negligent therein he rebuked theÌ„ reuoked his former ordinance except on their amendement Neither did the Priests no nor his vncle Ioiada the highe Prieste grudge or grumble hereat nor sayde that the offerings were theirs not his to dispose nor told him they were his superiors but as his inferiors most humbly obeyed his ordinances Al vvhich things fithe they vvere vvell done is not novve true according to the sense of the diuine Scripture that we may make a better ordinarie rule herâ—…on for Kings and Emperors to knovve of Byshops causes than for Byshops to knovve of Kings and Emperors causes If you replye this was but a money matter I answere yet was this money oblations and offerings But will you graunt Princes thus much to make ordinances howe all your money offerings shall be vsed when ye shall gather them and when not of whom ye shal take them and howe ye shall bestowe them â—…ay 〈◊〉 will neuer doe this for money is the chiefest thing ye shoote at no penie no pater noster all your eâ—…cl causes depende so on money offerings that as good ye gaue the prince authoritie in al ecclesiastical matters as let him deale thus with your money offerings as Ioas did with theirs But doth your own glosse expound this no further than to money matters Ioas saithe your glosse both in this name and in this vvorke signifieth Christ for it is interpreted the strength of the Lorde He commaundeth the teachers that they should take all the money that is offered into the Lordes house of the passers by to vvit whatsoeuer spirituall knovvledge or good vvorke is brought into the Lords treasorie that by the offices of the preachers it may be bestovved on the repayring of the spirituall Temple that vvhatsoeuer he shall finde torne by errour or hurte by Vices they should repaire least the multitude of hearers should perishe by the doctors negligence â–ª Here this facte of the King is compared to the representation of Christe and to the ouersight of all eccl. matters So that if Kings will account the studie of the Lawe of God as well to belong vnto them as their crowne if they will looke vnto know and examine the causes of the Byshops and their reuenues and appoint them orders to repair the ruines of the Lords temple and sée that the preachers lay out their talents of spirituall knowledge good workes towards the building then should kings truely represent Christe and be indéede the strength of the Lorde bycause they haue the Lords power authoritie thervnto And thus this example better considered maketh more for the Kings authoritie ouer the Byshops than for the Byshops ouer the Kings authoritie Fiftly I answere that althoughe a Godly Byshop be a sequester betwéen God the Prince betwéene the Prince and the people in prayer in the Sacramentes and in preaching yet â–ª is he not a sequester betwéen God and the Prince or betwene the Prince the people in matters of the kingdome least of all he may sequester him from his kingdome And though he be the Angell of the Lord in his message if he be a Godly byshop for otherwise he is the Angell of SathaÌ„ yet is the King the Lordes anoynted or the Lordes Christe in authoritie but the Lords Christ in authoritie is aboue the lordes Angels in message therefore the King
to lay all your honestie to pledge M. Stapletons seconde parte about vntruthes is answered sufficiently in his bedroll In the third part be confesseth that wherwith the byshop chargeth M. Feck that in king Henries dayes he set foorth this supremacie in his open sermons But withall to excuse him he saith it was not vpon knowledge but vpon very ignorance and lacke of true knowledge and due consideration of the matter â–ª What ignorance cal ye this M. St if it be not malicious it is of simplicitie yea and wilfull carelesnesse withal â–ª yet before ye sayde he was discharged of all three and héere contrarying your own selfe ye charge him again with two of them at the least besides that ye there sayde Surely if there were any ignorance in this poynt it vvere inuincible ignorance by no studie or diligence able to be put away and therfore pardonable But is this suche ignorance when héere ye confesse that he studied not for it but did it without due coÌ„sideratioÌ„ of the matter therfore it was not pardonable eueÌ„ by your own saying Thus while ye would excuse him of ignoraÌ„nce do not only accuse him of ignorance but also declare such great ignoraÌ„ce in your self that it séemeth ye neither well wot nor muche care what ye say so that ye may contende Neither shame you in this poynt whyle ye would mitigate M. FeckeÌ„hams fault to accuse with him of ignoraunce no fewer than all yea the beste learned of the realme then to whom it was not so well knowne ye saye as it is nowe to euery man beeing but of meane learning To the proofe whereof ye cite sir Thomas More that tyll his latter time did neuer of many yeres beléeue the Popes supremacie to be prouided by God and therefore M. Feck with many other good and well learned men otherwise was caried away among them with the violence of this common storme and tempest for lacke of mature and deepe consideration Where as nowe all Papistee suche as haue trauelled in these latter controuersies do beleeue that the Popes primacie was immediatly instituted of God and that it is Iure diuino by Gods lawe and not the Princes supreme gouernment which is now knowne clerely to stand agaynst it Héere is no argument all this whyle for it but onely defacing of their predecessors learning and knowledge to aduaunce their owne which notwithstanding it be nothing comparable in all wyse mens iudgements yet is it worthy to beholde the grosse presumptuous impudencie of these Louanistes that as though they came from the newe Indies that say other men are blinde or haue but one eye and they onely haue two so these wryters pretende they haue suche knowledge nowe yea the meane learned among them as the very best learned before them had not the lyke who were not resolued herein nor sawe so muche as they now do in the Popes authoritie For they haue espied now at the leÌ„gth with their Linxes eyes that the Pope his primarie is de lure diuino of the law of God which thing euen Sir Thomas More did not sée who a great whyle was so blinde herein that he thought it but the Churches institution at length full dimly God wot he thought that he saw it was prouided of God. But nowe euery meane learned Louanist hath espied through a milstone to vse M. Stapletons owne phrase and cleerely seeth and knoweth it is ex lure diuino instituted by God immediatly Who would haue thought they had bene then so blinde vnlesse M. Stapl. had told vs they were so or that our Louanistes had bene waxen so cunning to haue found out of late that they could neuer sée before no doubt they had turned ouer and ouer both the Old and the New Testament many a time and I warrant ye all to haue found out this immediate institution of God and yet was it neuer their happe vnfortunate blinde buzzardes that they were to light on the place of this Institution But now the Bible and Testament hath bene so turned and tossed once againe at Louaine and that with such cléere eye sights that it is plainly founde out yea and so cléere that euery man of meane learning knoweth it that the Pope is supreme head ouer all the whole Church instituted by God immediatly to be obeyed vnder the paine of eternall condemnation O happie man for the Pope whose estimation and welth began so fast to decay that yet at the last hath founde out this institution I warrant ye like to weare a Cardinals hatte M. Stap if you haue had so good lucke to finde this out But I pray you since it is so plaine a place that all your side now cléerely séeth it shew where aboutes in the Bible or Testament it is I haue of purpose turned them ouer ere now also yet could I neuer haue the hap to sée this But I hope your sight be better than mine I pray you tell vs where it is do but quote the place is it not peraduenture on the backe side of your booke for in your booke it is to be doubted ye shal finde no more than could those learned men before you finde out That it was ordayned but Iure humano by the law of man. And where ye crake so much that ye haue now founde it instituted lure diuino by the law of God I am afrayd it will in the ende be found out to haue ben forged 〈◊〉 fraude Diabolâ—…ca by the iniurie and craft of Sathan That it is not Iure diuino by Gods lawe your selfe alleaging no place or proofe besides your onely vaunt fearing ye should be put to the proofe of your crake ye starte from it againe by admitting that if ye could not as ye caÌ„ not proue so much as ye haue made boast of though the Popes primacie say you were not ordeyned of God yet could it not be reiected by any one realme And although the Popes primacie were not grounded directly vppon Goddes worde but ordeyned of the Churche yet could it not be abrogated by the priuate consent of any one or fewe realmes no more than the Citie of London can iustly abrogate an acte of Parliament The sequcle of this argument M. Stapleton is nought by thrée wayes First by presupposing an impossible absurditie that the true Churche of Christ should ordeyne any other necessary doctrine to saluation than God hath ordeyned or is grounded on his woorde The spouse of Christ heareth hir husbande my sheepe saith Christ heare my voice and not the voice of a straunger SecoÌ„dly if this absurditie were admitted that the church of Christ should or could as it caÌ„ not ordeine other things yet should not we be bounde to follow it no though an Angell came from Heauen to teach vs any thing that is not onely contrarie but euen praeter besides the woorde of god And thus the Fathers of the Church theÌ„ selues haue taught vs to reiect it as easily
as to receyue it what soeuer hath not his authoritie out of the Scriptures And what so-euer wee finde not in the Scriptures we may vse them euen as we list our selues Why may we not say as S. Augustine saide Quia Canonicum non â—…st non me astringit Bicause it is not the Canonicall Scripture it bindeth me not to beleue or receyue it but of this matter furder as ye giue furder occasion Thirdly your argument of proportion from a Parliament to London fayleth standing on your olde and vayue presupposals that we haue graunted or must graunt you that your Popish Church is the true Churche That Christian realmes haue the same respect to your Popish church that a Citie in any Realme hath to the whole estate of the same Realme and againe that your Popes violent Councels are as frée lawfull and generall and enact onely as Godly decrées and constitutions to the directing of the true Churche as the Parliaments of a realme be frée lawfull and generall and enact godly lawes and constitutions for their policies and estates All these things beyng nothing proportionable we must graunt you to be true and fitte or else this your argument and your former crake neyther barell better herring may go togither a Gods name The rest of your counter blast to this diuision as it is nothing materiall so it is eyther altogither wordes of course or else a petit quarell that ye lappe vp all the matter withall bicause the Bishop called this sentence a sentence of the Holy Ghost In maleâ—…lam animam non 〈◊〉 sapientia VVisedome shall not enter into a frowarde soule which bicause it is mere impertiuent and friuolous I haue reiected it to your common places Discorde on our doctrine can ye gather none thereon but you would faine sowe discorde where none is and yet ye boast of vnitie But if ye remembered setting all other discordes aside how well as is afore sayd your Sorbonists and your Louanists and you Thomas Stapleton agrée euen with your owne swéete S. Thomas of Aquine and how your tale agreeth with it selfe how it excuseth and accuseth M. Feckenham ye should then sée who they be that as ye say in place of vniforme tuning ruffle vs vp a blacke Sanctus who they be that chaunging their shapes like Proteus haue so often altred their religion and whether they touch M. Feckenham and you or any of your chiefe Masters yea or no. The ninth Diuision THe Bishop hauing by Thomas his distinction of ignorance answered M. Feckenhams argument descendeth to cope with M. Feckenham in his issue and to proue the same by all the sayd meanes that he requireth And first to the issue whiche was That any Emperour or Empresse King or Queene may claime or take vpoÌ„ them any suche gouernment in spirituall or Ecclesiasticall causes The Bishop answereth that they ought to take such gouernment Ergo they may lawfully do it For his antecedeÌ„t that they ought he referreth to the foure meanes of the issue that M. Feckenham would haue it tried by M. Stapl. picking by quarels of other pretended answers made by the Bishop before falsely surmising that he then denied or mollified the woordes of the othe and that now he answereth without any molliâ—…iyng or restiaint that the Queene ought to take vpon hir such kinde of regiment these answeres he calleth so â—…arring variable diuerse and so contrary the one to the other that if the one be true the other must be false and so concludes they be false and deceiueable both of them But M. St. this is a false and a deceiuable point of your owne deuising from the which I perceyue by the tenour of your whole counterblast ye will neuer iarre nor varie one iote except God sende you hereafter better grace and iudgement than thus still to ground your self and your writings on manifest lies and forgeries and then presuppose them in your nodâ—…le for manifest principles and truthes Thus do ye all your booke ouer so ye play here First ye ground your selfe on a forged answere that the Bishop should before haue made imagining it must néedes be true bicause you say ye certainly vnderstande that M. Feckenham hath so reported to some of his friendes that the Bishop made then another resolute answere This is all that ye all age for proofe of it ye haue it but by heare say at the hande of some partiall tale bearer some tolde you that M. Feckenham told some that the Bishop tolde him that this was his resolute answere and you beleue it for a certentie and write it solemnly in your booke to deface the Bishop as it were with doubble and contrary answering your selfe in the meane season answering nothing to the argument nor to the Bishops present and printed answere And therfore I neede returne no other answere to you than that one tolde me that another told him that he told you that ye were to light of credence to beleue euery flimme flamme tale and to rash of Iudgement to clap downe such tales in your booke of whiche ye had no better proufe than that all the worlde should see claw me claw thee two false marchants néede no broker they say The tenth Diuision THe Bishop entring into his proufes of the issue that Princes ought to take vpoÌ„ them such gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes as the Queenes Maiestie doth chalenge and take vppon hit among other properties belonging to the Princely office to beginne with all auoucheth out of Deut. the 17. and the 13. with some expositoures vpon the same that the Prince is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the lawe to reade in it diligently to this ende that he himselfe may learne the feare of God and cause his subiects to become Israelites by his princely authoritie redressing the peruersnesse of such aâ—… swerue from the ordinances and ceremonies appointed of god The which beyng true the conclusion consequently followeth thereuppon M. St. answere to this argument resteth on foure faults that he findeth with the Antecedent which he calleth vntruthes so reckoneth them vp also in his score but bicause they are the principall materiall pointes whereon his answere dependes I thought it more fitte to note them here But first after his scoffing craking maner he saith to the Bishop Go on I saie in Gods name M. Horne and prosecute your plea stoutly God sende you good speede And so he doth eueÌ„ such as ye the honestie of your cause deserue c. But all these his fromps and vaunts I ouerpasse and referre them to his common places and will onely answere to that which he chargeth the Bishop withall which is no lesse than infidelitie and vnskilfulnesse And to beginne with the later bicause he saith it is the least matter and noteâ—…h it for the former vntruth Your vnskilfulnesse saith he whiche is the least matter standeth in that ye say the King is commaunded to haue by him