church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
church if we could name such notable persons as you speake of in all ages florishing in their gouernment and ministerie And it is a good argument that the Popish church is not the church of Christe because it was neuer hidden sence it first sprang vp in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their gouernment and ministerie and especially the succession of Popes you can reherse in order vpon your fingers in which beadroole neuerthelesse you must name many tyrants many traytors one whore many whoremongers many Sodomites many murtherers many poysenors many sorcerers and Necromancers and from Boniface the third all blasphemous heretikes and Antichristes But our church which hath not had so many registers chroniclers and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer but yet honester men to name we can name Peter Paule Mathew Iohn c. Marke Luke Timothe Agabus Epaphras c. Iustinus Irenaeus Cyprianus Athanasius Hylarius Ambrosius Augustinus c. Gyldas Bertramus Marsilius de Padua Ioan. de Ganduno Bruno Andagauensis VVickleue Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage c. With the first namely Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine with the rest in the cheefe and most substantiall articles of faith alwayes agreeing with any man so farre as he agreeth with the worde of God. 3 And if he can proue vnto me that their Church hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that any Church or Congregatiō but ours hath kept that charge thē I recant FOr some of those officers I haue twise aunswered before that they were not ordeined to continue alwaies with the church wherefore they are not to be exacted of vs but such officers as are necessary for the conseruation of God his people in the vnitie of faith and the knowledge of Christ our Church hath neuer lacked although in time of the great defection and Apostasie whereof S. Paule doth prophesie 2. Thess. 2. there were but few as there were but fewe members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through iniurie of the time the remembraunce of all their names is not come vnto vs And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papistes boast of in theirs yet were that nothing to proue it to be the Church of Christ which must be tried onely by the Scriptures as S. Augustine sayth in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesia sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi c. But whether they holde the Church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not therefore say that men must beleeue vs that we are in the Church because we hold the same Churche which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable Bishops of our communion Euen so we require at the Papistes handes that shewe them selues to holde the Church not by succession of Bishops or rehearsing of their names but onely by the Scriptures for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to beleue vs but onely because we proue the doctrine of our Church by the authoritie of the Scriptures But as for the popish church neyther hath nor euer had any of those officers which S. Paule speaketh of for Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets she can chalenge by no reason seing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writings in steede of pastors teachers she hath wolues dūme dogges or false prophets which either teach not at all or else teach the doctrine of deuills the dreames of men And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture to ouerthrow the popish Hierarchie which is the greatest glory of their Church then this place of Paule Ephes. 4. he speaketh of Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and teachers But where are Popes Cardinalls popish archbishops Bishops Preestes Deacōs Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolyts Ostiares Monkes Friars Chanōs Nunnes c. Wherfore I cōclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of christ And especially seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proueth the vnitie of minde he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth which might be very profitable as the Papists say to mainteine this vnity for if there had bene any such office appoynted of God S. Paule in no wise woulde haue omitted it especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose which was vnitie To conclude if it be sufficient or any thing worth to rehearse the names of them that haue orderly succeded in all ages in the bishops sees in an outwarde face of the Church the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Wherefore if you be as ready to performe as to promise you recant The nynth article may be deuided into nyne demaundes 1 And for the necessary vse and execution of the foresayd offices they must further be asked what Sacramentes the Protestants ministred for the space of a thousand yeares togither in which they confesse their congregations to haue bene neare or else wholy hidden THey ministred those Sacramentes which Christ did institute namely the Sacrament of baptisme and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ at such times as the cruell tyrannie of you Papistes did not hinder them to come togither for such purposes 2 VVhat correction they kept and discipline for offenders THey did vse such discipline as was vsed in S. Cyprians time when persecution hindered not the free course of it As he doth often complaine in the places aboue rehearsed They did admonish secretly before witnesses and when persecution stayed them not they did also excommunicate 3 To whome they did preach their Fayth TO such as woulde geue them hearing as VVickleue to the Englishmen Iohn Hus to the Bohemians VValdo to the Frenchmen and so of the rest 4 How did they reproue heresies THey reproued heresies by the worde of God and patient sufferinge of your tyrannie the one you may reade in their workes that are yet extant of VVickleue Bertrame Hus c. The other in histories of your owne writers 5 VVhere did their principall Pastors sit in Iudgement I Might aske you where the Apostles did sit in iudgement and you are neuer able to shew me for I reade as one sayth that they stoode often to be Iudged but I neuer reade that they sat in iudgement vpon others And so I aunswere of the principall Pastors of our Church especially in time of persecution 6
vnsemely wrething or wraesting do so plainely beare that if ours were a sense neuer hearde of before yet the onely comparing of the textes and necessary circumstancies of the letter might rather driue vs to that meaning then any other that they can euer alleage or proue But now as Catholikes euer do keping the olde meaning and forging no newe geuing no other sense then that which the persuasion of all Christian people both learned and simple hath driuen from the beginning of our faith downe to our dayes and framing no other vnderstanding then that which we finde expressely in the learning and faith of our fathers both set forth and proued who is so rude in iudgement or so entangled with any contrary opinion that will not acknowledge the trueth and doctrine euery waye so compassed with proofe and all likelihoods CAP. VII 1 THat the iudgement of God beginneth at the death of euery man and so continueth vntil the full manifestation therof in the last day is clearer by the Scripture of God then that it needeth the confirmatioÌ„ of mans authoritie But that Ambrose is alleged to proue that euery man immediatly after his death doth feele that he must looke for in the daye of iudgement I meruaile to what purpose it is brought in if it be not to ouerthrow purgatory For if it be true as it must needes be no man feeleth paine after this life but he that shall feele it eternally And surely to the same effect he speaketh in his booke de bono mortis where he commendeth the death of the faithfull quia deteriorem statum non efficit sed qualem in singulis inuenerit talem iudicio fururo reseruat quietè ipsis fouet praesentium inuidiae subducit futurorum expectatione componit Because death maketh not their state worse but such as it findeth in euery man such it reserueth into the iudgement to come and quietly chierisheth them and both taketh them away from the enuy of things present and setleth them in expectation of things to come Thus sayth Ambrose plainely in this place what soeuer he speaketh allegorically of the fiery sword in other places VVell it is euident you saie that the soules departed sleepe not of which error Luther also was noted I neuer harde any man of credit note him therof who is well knowne to haue bene of a cleane contrary iudgement but I reade in the actes of the Councel of Constance that Pope Iohn the 23 was condemned for denying the immortality of the soule the resurrection of the deade and the life euerlasting But if the soules sleepe not then they be awake in purgatory or if ye reason not so subtilly you meane that if they be at all in purgatory they be there immediatly after their departure out of their bodyes But how shall we proue that they come there at all Forsooth by the sayings of the Prophet and of the Apostle before alleged which are so plaine proofe and so euident to be vnderstoode of them selues that they nede none other interpretation But how plaine it is that they serue nothing to that purpose I haue sufficiently declared already yet must we further follow the same matter because here are brought in the authoritie of the doctors to agree with M. Allens glose 2 But as reason is and my promise was at the beginning I will let the good Christian see the wordes of most notable auncient writers that he may reioyse his faith to be so surely grounded First then you shall perceiue that S. Augustine expoundeth the texte of the prophet Malachie before recited for purgatory paines euen as I saide I am certaine he may much moue our aduersaries as one whome they chalenge to be patrone of some of their opinions but how vniustly in all pointes God knoweth and in this matter especially you shall now perceiue After the rehersall of the Prophets wordes and well weying of the matter he thus writeth Ex ijs quae dicta sunt videtur euidentius apparere in illo iudicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras Vbi enim dicitur Quis substinebit diem introitus eius aut quis ferre poterit vt aspiciat eum quia ipse ingreditur quasi ignis conflatorij quasi herba lauantium sedebit conflans emundans sicut argentum aurum emundabit filios Leui fundet eos sicut aurum sicut argentum quid aliud intelligendum est dicit tale aliquid Isaias Lauabit dominus sordes filiorum filiarum Syon sanguinem emundabit de medio eorum spiritu iudicij spiritu combustionis Nisi sortè sic eos dicendum est emundari à sordibus eliquari quodammodo cuÌ„ ab eis mali per poenale iudicium separantur vt illorum segregatio atque damnatio purgatio sit istorum quia sine talium de coetero commixtione victuri sunt sed cum dicit emundabit filios Leui fundet eos sicut aurum argentum erunt domino offerentes hostias in iusticia placebit domino sacrificium Iuda Hierusalem Vtique ostendit eos ipsos qui emundabuntur deinceps in sacrificijs iusticiae domino esse placituros ac per hoc ipsi a sua iniustitia emundabuntur in qua domino hostiae displicebant porrò in plena perfectaque iustitia ipsi erunt cum mundati fuerint quid enim acceptius deo tales offerunt quà m seipsos verum ista quaestio de Purgatorijs poenis vt diligentius pertractetur in tempus aliud differenda est thus in english By the foresaide wordes in semeth very euident that in the time of that iudgement there shall be certaine Purgatory paines for some sort of men For when it is saide Who can be able to susteine the day of his comming who can stand in his sight because he shall sit trying out and purifying as it were golde and siluer and entre in like the fier of the fornace and as washers sope he shall make cleane the sonnes of Leui shall trie them as golde and siluer VVhat other thing by all these wordes can be ment but purgatory paines Namely seeing the prophet Esaie hath the like in these wordes God shall washe a waye the filthe of the sonnes and daughters of Syon and purge bloude from the middest of them in the spirite of iudgement and fier Except a man might conueniently say that they shall be washed from filthe and as you would say newe fourged when the wicked by finall iudgement are seuered out of their company that so their departure and damnation may be the purgation of the rest because after that day they shall liue for euer without the company of the badde But when the Prophet sayth more that he will clense the children of Leuy and purify them as golde and siluer that they may offer their oblations in righteousnesse and the sacrifice of Iuda and Hierusalem shall please our Lorde He â—urely giueth vs
the dead or any point of purgatory 6 I will declare what they practised for their dearest frends priuately and what the Churches of most notable Nations vsed for all deceased in Christes faith in their publike seruice openly I shall proue vnto you that the practise of suffrages and Sacrifice for the deade isshued downe to vs from the Apostles dayes 6 You shall not proue that either in publicke or priuate prayers the deade were commended otherwise then by waye of thankes geuing for their departure or that any suffrages or sacrifice was offered for them by the Apostles or their lawefull successors or many yeares after the Apostles times 7 I shall pointe you to the first father of the contrary doctrine and his principall abettours in such troublesome times at such marchants were to be founde Ye shall see them knowen amongest all the holy of their time by the name of heretikes 7 You shall shew no heretike that denied your doctrine but I will shew you other heretikes before him that allowed it 8 You shall see their doctrine improued and them selues condemned by the graue iudgement of Councells both Generall prouinciall for heretikes If any of them all can say any thing to the contrary of that which we vpon so good groundes mainteine he shall be aunswered with no worse then the very wordes of the holy auncient writers Finally if any other thinges be necessary beside for the declaration of this matter to the simple or for proofe against our aduersaries they shall not be omitted as occasioÌ„ by course and fall of the matter may be geuen All which pointes being auouched and not proued shall condemne me of arrogancy But both auouched and fully proued they shall deserue any reasonable mans consent and beare testimony of the aduersaries impudency here and witnesse of their contempte of Gods approued trueth in the worlde to come 8 How vayne your bragge is of generall counsels it appeareth by this that with in fouretene hundreth yeares after Christ you can finde none to serue your turne vntill you come to the councells Florens and Trent whereof the one was held in our grandfathers dayes the other within these 20. yeares your prouinciall councells shal be aunswered by as good prouinciall councells as they are And that which I haue to say in confutation of your heresie shall be no worse then the very word of God it selfe which is better then the consent of all the world against it And although the custome of praying for the dead be an auncient errour so that fewe of the latter writers there are but they shewe them selues to be infected therewith yet hath it not such an vniuersall consent of all writers but that I shall be able by Gods grace to shew that the most auncient and nearest to the Apostles tyme receiued it not and that they which of later time admitted it had neither any ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing nor any certainty of faith to assure their conscience which when it is found in the ende as it is now sayd in the beginning your arrogant boasting and impudent lying togither with the falshoode of your opinions shall be manifest to all men That there be certaine sinnes vvhich may be forgeuen in the next life and that the deserued punishement for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed CAP. I. 1 ANd first that sinnes may be pardoned in the next worlde that were not in this life forgeuen our Sauiours owne wordes do teach vs written in the Gospell of S. Matthew thus Ideò dico vobis omne peccatum blasphemia remittetur hominibus spiritus autem blasphemia non remittetur Et quicuÌ„que dixerit verbum contra filium hominis remittetur ei qui autem dixerit contra spiritum sanctum non remittetur ei neque in hoc saeculo neque in fuâ—uro I tell you that all maner of sinne and blasphemy shall be forgeuen vnto men but the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be forgeueÌ„ And who so euer shall speake against the sonne of man it shall be forgeuen him But if he speake against the holy Ghost it shall neither be pardoned in this worlde nor in the worlde to come The same thing in sense hath Marke and Luke affirming that such offense shall neuer be forgeuen The which worde Neuer S. Marke expresseth thus in aeternuÌ„ non habet remissionem he shall not haue pardoÌ„ as you would say in all eternity by which he may plainely seeme to reache further then the limites and borders of this worlde for the remission of sinne And this speach hath as much pith and proper force in it as S. Matthewes who expressely distinctly and belike as Christ spake it vttereth that sense of the eternity which passeth the measure of worldely time by these words Neither in this world nor yet in the world to come And for that cause S. Marke sayth Reus erit aeterni delicti he shall be gilty of an eternall faulte signifying that in some case a man might perhaps not speede of a pardon in this life yet may obteine it in the next But for that horrible blasphemy he in a maner dischargeth the offender of all hope of remission either in this life or in the next that is to come VVhich forme of wordes can neither be founde in scripture nor in mans common talke to haue any place in such thinges as extend no further but to the transitory time of our life for in those matters it had bene vsually and truely spoken it shall neuer happen in this world And therfore instructing vs that sinnes or the paine due vnto sinnes may either be released in this worlde or in the worlde to come he followeth that phrase and forme of wordes in which man might well conceiue the reache of remission and pardoning of sinnes farre to passe the compasse of our time and life CAP. I. 1 YOu were as good to kindle a fire out of yâ—e and snow as to goe about to frame your fiery forge of purgatory out of this place The meaning of our Sauiour Christ is so playne his wordes so expresse that no reasonable man can gather any errour out of them For vndoubtedly the errour of purgatory was first inuented before this place was drawne vnto it So is there no heresie so absurd which Satan putteth into the head of wicked men but it may finde some sound of wordes in so many bookes of the holy Scriptures that by peruerse wit may be wrested vnto it But the doctrine of Gods truth and all articles of our beliefe are plainly taught in the Scripture either by manifest words or by necessary conclusion and argument which by no subtilty of SataÌ„ or his instrumeÌ„ts may be auoided or deluded And this is the difference betwene heresie and truth when they both apeale to the authorities of the Scripture Truth as she hath her foundation in the Scriptures and
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
Scriptures nor in the most auncient writers that lyued with in an hundreth yeares and more after the time of christ And to the particuler practise of the later times we aunswere that it is not sufficient to controll the auncient doctrine and primer practise If we be required to shew some place of any auncient writer which denyeth purgatory or prayers for the deade we haue already shewed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory some time affirmeth there is no meane or thirde place but heauen for the elect and hell for the reprobate likewise for praying or satisfying for the deade we haue alleaged Cyprian and others your owne common law out of Hieronym sayth that the prayers of the liuing profit not the deade 13. quaest 2. In praesenti saeculo c. In this present worlde we knowe that one of vs may be helped of an other either by prayers or by counsells but when we shoulde come before the iudgement seate of Christ neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe can intreate for any man but euery man must beare his owne burthen Yea Gelasius the Pope sayth that no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur Wherefore serue the Popes pardons then To that which is required of the expresse word of God forbidding prayers for the deade we aunswere that all places of scripture that forbidde prayers without fayth forbidde prayer for the deade for faith is not euery mans vaine perswasion but an assurance out of the worde of God which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to praye for them If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the deade much more it is against the fayth and hope of Christians to praye for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whome the worde of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Iohn 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an auncient writer I will seeke no farther then the place of Hieronym euen now alleaged out of your owne canon lawe vppon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleaged in this aunswere as out of Cyprian Origene and others by which the intollerable lying bragging and rayling of this miscreant shal be better confuted then by any contradiction of wordes And where as he sayeth we chalenge the olde doctors before the simple for our partakers whether they be simple or wise before whom we speake as we speake not alwayes before the simple onely but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen we neuer make any such challenge of them as the Papistes doe which offer to stand to their iudgement in all thinges and yet in most thinges yea in the cheefest pointes of religion that be so in deede or be so compted of them they are contrary to the doctors and olde councells for which cause and not for confirmation of trueth we alleage the authoritie of men for we haue learned as Augustine sayth to geue this honor only to the canonicall scriptures that we must beleue them with out controuersie and all other writings we receiue so farre as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise wherefore we doe not onely saye that the doctors haue erred like men but we haue proued it so that the Papistes them selues can not saye naye for shame But to that he sayth we doe boldely condemne the holy Scriptures that it out of all measure impudent and sclaunderous And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus belike as he had it of some foolish priest that fedde him with notes of doctors or as he is impudent enough to peruerte the fathers meaning him selfe so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well haue taken him selfe and the rest of his fellowes by the noses for heretikes by the iudgemeÌ„t of Irenaeus whose wordes be these Cum enim ex scripturis arguantur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum quasi non rectè habâ—ant neque sit ex authoritate quia variè sunt dictae quia non possit inueniri veritas ab his qui nesciant traditionem non enim per literas traditam illam sed per viuam vocem When they be confuted by the scriptures they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selues as though they were not well nor of sufficient authority both because the trueth can not be founde of them which knowe not the tradition for that was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth How saye you M Allen who is an heretike by Irenaeus iudgement who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority who sayth the scriptures are like a nose of waxe who saye the trueth can not be founde in scriptures without tradition of vnwritten verities In good sooth M. Allen you haue the worst grace of any that euer I knew in alleaging the sentences of the doctors for you alleage fewe or none but either in whole or in parte they make against you 9 But if you thinke that I feane of them you shall see what shamefull shiftes the maisters and captaines of the contrary assertion haue deuised for the defense of them selues I dare say if the studious be but any whit indiffereÌ„t he will leaue their sâ—hoole for euer The chiefe Captaine of all these contentious heades like an vnshamefast childe affiâ—meth that the doctors praysed and followed the common errors of the ignorant people in almes and prayers for the departed Brentius aunswereth that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased tooke his error of the hethen vsage of the gentility And Augustine he saith affirmed purgatory prayers and almes for them for the affiance that he had in mens merites towardes the remission of sinnes Melancthon as though he were no man that might orre him selfe sayth the doctors were men and discented amongest them selues As for the vsage of any celebration in the worlde what roume can it haue with these champians when Câ—luin confesseth in plaine termes that the celebration of the Sacrament hath bene contaminated euen in a maner sith the Apostles time and first planting of our religion and to reduce it to the puritie againe the man frames a newe one of his owne so farre from superstition that it hath no steppe of religion or true worship of god But well the worde of God is yet safe with them there a man may holde them No surely they are as â—alsie with the very scripture it selfe when so euer it maketh against them Brentius before named is not ashamed to saye that he pardoneth the author of the Machabeis of his error and ignorance And that thou may see the perfect image of a prowde heretike Caluin sayth thus as for the booke of the Machabeis I will not vouâ—hsalfe to make aunswere to it Mercifull God what faithfull
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
conteyned the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture purgatory is not taught in the Scripture therefore purgatory is no true doctrine And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against at their first entry ergo they are true But of all mens authoritie it is false wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers destroyers we confesse we are so of all false doctrine and heresie For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth but also to ouerthrow error not onely to build faith but to destroy falshood But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self as other of his sect do to tel vs that all our faith standeth vpon negatiues I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it This is more then boyish babling All trueth is to be affirmed all falshood to be denyed Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed But to runne through the articles of that creede which he hath framed for vs we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will no not aptnes of will to thinke any thing that is good 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue that are not by necessitie excluded from it 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner but as he was present in Manna to the fathers 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes but onely the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women 1. Pet. 1. we haue an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate which serue the tabernacle and other beside we haue none Heb. 13. we call not vpon Sainctes because we beleue not in them for how shoulde we call vpon them in whome we beleue not Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life because they that liue vnto Christ dye vnto him and being dissolued are with him Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vs out of hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus for the fathers were at rest with God where they are now whether we call the place Abrahams bosome or paradise or heauen Luke 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde maye be the beginning of the Popish creede which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men God onely is not to be worshipped and serued for Sainctes haue both the one and the other God onely is not true for the Pope can not erre Christ is not our onely mediator and aduocate for Marie and the Sainctes are also Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vs for we must satisfie for our selues Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them but the Popes padon maye Christ is not onely our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech for euery hedge priest is of the same order Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all For y greatest part is lefte to the masse Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vs by Christ for we must satisfie for them A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe for euery man must merite for him selfe The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vs all trueth but we must haue vnwritten verities The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke 2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come This faith therefore of these pluckers downe must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye and not to builde to plucke vp and not to plante to improue and not to make proofe But what way is that mary by way of negatiue proofe they confirme their negatiue and no faith Purgatory say they nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture ergo there is neither of them to be beleued VVhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father his sonne our Sauiour It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother and it helpeth all pluckers downe but it neuer serueth a buylder The vanity whereof is so well knowen that I will not stande to talke thereof namely seeing it hath no place in our cause for which we haue brought diuers scriptures all construed by most learned fathers for that sense and some so euident that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture 2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath it is not for infidells to iudge no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours And as for our negatiue argument it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide there of groweth the spight But when as you saye we frame our argument of the name of purgatory onely or prayers for
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be a good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them If you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the weake and beggarly elementes because they are destitute of God his worde which onely i◠able to geue them strength and estimation as for your festiuities in the honour of creatures we doe likewise abhorre them ▪ we honour the Sainctes as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation but we do not worship them for Religion De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute We honor them with loue and not with seruice And as he doth often affirme that it is Idolatry to builde churches in the honour of Sainctes so is it as great Idolatry to institute festiuall dayes in the fauour of the same Sainctes As for the festiuall dayes that were vsed in the primitiue Church although they might haue bene omitted without any hurt of Christian Religion yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures as they are of the Papistes but only for the memorie of the Martyrs and other Saincts that their good life might be followed Your fastes are also abhominable for they are nothing else but abstinence from meates created of God to be receiued with
Nouatians Socrates testifieth he could doe not good with them because they enuied his ambition saying that the bishoprike of Rome like as of Alexandria was long before growen beyonde the bondes of priesthood into foreine lordship Lib. 7. cap. 11. By these examples it is plaine that although the mysterie of iniquitie beganne to worke in Victor Cornelius Stephanus Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Bonifacius and Caelestinus yet it was reproued by some godly men as Irenaeus Polycrates Dionysius Alexandrinus Cyprianus the Councell of Aphrica and Socrates the Historiographer 4 VVhether all nations sodenly and in one yeare were moued to the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true Church neither preaching teaching writing nor attempting any thing against it or making mention of it WHen the scripture telleth vs that the mysterie of iniquitie preparing for the generall defection and reuelation of Antichrist wrought euen in S. Paules time 2. Thess. 2. it is foly to aske whether sodenly and in one yere all Religion was corrupted And yet all nations neuer consented to the doctrine of the Papistes for as it hath bene often saide the Greeke church and other Orientall churches hath neuer receiued the Popish religion in many cheefe pointes and especially in acknowledging the Popes authoritie what preaching teaching and writing hath bene against it is shewed before and shal be more declared hereafter 5 VVhether sodenly all bookes of seruice were altered NO forsoothe but by litle and litle in the Latine Church as for the Greeke Orientall Churches neuer receyued nor vsed your Latine seruice bookes 6 VVhether in a moment the Masse was saide in steede of other Apostolike Communion WHen Durande your owne doctor sheweth what Pope sewed on euery patche that belongeth to your Masse it were foly for vs to say it came in sodenly and impudencie in you to affirme that it came whole from the Apostles which was so long a framing in so many peeces 7 VVhether men beganne sodenly to praye for the soules departed FIrst it is manifest that men had no warraÌ„t out of God his worde to pray for the dead and it can not be proued for 200 yeares after Christ by any credible author that it was vsed in the Church wherefore it is certeine that it was first planted by the deuill as were other abuses And because it hath a pretence of Charitie deceyued simple men the sooner Yet did it not so preuaile in the primitiue Church that they durst define what profit the soules receyued thereby for Chrysostome in his 3. Homelie vpon the first Chapter of the Epist. to the Philippians sayeth Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quidem attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe small helpe truely but yet let vs helpe them Likewise Augustine in the 9. booke and 13. Chapter of his confessions where he prayeth for his father and mother declareth how vncertaine he was of that matter one while he feareth the danger of euery soule that dieth in Adam An other while he beleueth that they neede not his prayer yet he desireth God to accept the same and moue other men to remember them in their prayers Thus it is necessary that they wander which leane vnto mens traditions without the worde of God. 8 Sodenly required the helpe of Sainctes in heauen WHether sodenly or by litle and litle men were brought to such superstition that they required helpe of Sainctes it maketh litle matter seeing it is contrary to the worde of God and the example of the primitiue Church for 200. yeares after christ Yet it is to be thought that it grew vp as other errors by litle and litle And S. Augustine in his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wearieth him selfe and in the ende can define nothing in certeine how the Sainctes in heauen should heare the prayers of men on earth Such doubtfulnesse they fall into that leaue the word of God and leaue to traditions 9 Sodenly the tongue of common prayers altered FIrst the Greeke church other churches both in Asia Aethiopia neuer receiued the Latine tongue but to this day continue in their vulgare tongue The Westerne Church for the most parte all spake and vnderstoode Latine as the sea coast of Aphrica Italye Fraunce Spayne Britayne as for Germany was lately conuerted to the faith Then seeing they spake Latine and had their common prayer in Latine The tongue of their common prayer was not altered but their speach was altered from the tongue of their common prayer and this was not sodainely for it was more than twelue hundred yeares after Christ before it waâ— taken for a Catholike doctrine that common prayer should be vsed in latine S. Augustine preached in latine all the people vnderstoode him and that they might the better vnderstand him he doth vse such phrases and termes which were not pure latine but commonly vsed of the people as Ossum and Foenerare c. But soone after his time when the Gothes and Vandalles oueranne the Empire the latine tongue which before was not pure among the people began daily to be more corrupted and yet remained after a sort latine vntill the yeare of our Lorde 768. when Charles the great began to râ—igne in France and long after for within the time of his reigne which was 47. yeares a Councell was holden at Turon in France what yeare it is not certeyne but it is probable that in the latter ende of his empire in which it was decreed that euery bishop should haue certeine homilies Et easdem quisque apertè studeat transferre in rusticam Romanam linguam aut Theotiscam quo facilius cuncti possint intelligere quae dicuntur Turon 3. cap. 17. And that euery one studye to translate them plainly into the rusticall Romane tongue or into the Theotisce tongue that all men may more easily vnderstand what is sayd By this Canon it is euident that at this time the people vnderstood the Latine tongue though it were very rude and rustical And where the Canon prescribeth the same homilies to be translated either into the rude latine tongue or into the Theotisce tongue Although this word Theotisca seeme to be corrupted yet it is most certeine that they meant Dutch tongue for as much as Carolus magnus had a great part of Germanie vnder his dominion and the Germanes as neuer throughly subdued by the Romanes neuer throughly receiued the latine tongue Yet it is manifest that they vnderstoode their common prayer in the latine tongue though not perfectly because the Canon sayth Quo facilius c. That all men may more easely vnderstand signifying that they vnderstood the pure latine tongue though hardely and not perfectly About the yeare of our Lorde 813. the knowledge of the latine tongue beganne more and more to weare awaye from amongest the common people which when the bishops perceiued they decreed in the Councell of Magunce cap. 25. that euery Sondaye and holy daye there shoulde be a
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
the like practise was assayed by Mahomet the deuills onely dearling by whome numbers of wiues togither often diuorcies and perpetuall change for nouelty was permitted By which doctrine of lust and libertie the floure of Christiandom alas for pity was caried away At which time though our faith Christes church were brought to a small roome and very great straights yet by Gods grace good order and necessary discipline this schoole of lust hath bene reasonably till our dayes kept vnder and the grauitie of Christian maners as the time serued orderly vpholden TO THE PREFACE 1 IF you had not promised and professed an orderly proceding in this cause we woulde neuer haue enquired whether good order would require that an heretike should haue bene first defined before he were diuided And especially in this controuersie where either partie chargeth other with heresie it had been conuenient that the right definition or description of an heretike had bene first set downe that men might thereby haue learned who is iustly to be burdened with that crime For an heretike is he that in the Church obstinatly mainteineth an opinion that is contrary to the doctrine of God coÌ„teined in the holy Scriptures which if any of vs can be proued to doe then let vs not be spared but condemned for heretiks But if iust proofe therof can not be brought against vs but contrarywise we be able to shew manifest euideÌ„ce that our aduersaries doctrine is cleane contrary to the Scriptures of God then let the name of heretikes be applied to them to whome the definition doth agree with further punishment due to calumniators that slaunder other men in that whereof they are guilty them selues Nowe to the matter of this Preface which as the argumeÌ„t declareth consisteth of three partes wherof the first is that there be two sorts of heretiks the one preteÌ„ding vertue the other opeÌ„ly professing vice This part is shewed in three leaues following In the substaÌ„ce of which point I will noâ— differ with you yet something will I note in your handling thereof as occasion moueth me First you affirme that heresie and all willfull blindnesse is vndoubtedly a iust plague of God for sinne I mislike not your affirmation but I maruaile how you can affirme this and be a good Catholike when we cannot say halfe so much but we are charged by you to make God the author of sinne But such is the force of trueth that oftentimes the enimies thereof them selues when they speake without contention cannot auoyed a true confession God therefore as this Papist can not now deny punisheth sinne with sinne not as an euil author but as a rightuous iudge Proceding further you say that Christ hath geuen all heretikes this marke that there vnsemely works should euer detect their fained faith wherein you speake not onely contrary to the trueth but euen to your owne affirmation before For our Sauiour Christ hath apoynted false prophetes to be knowne by their fruites which is there false doctrine contrary to Gods worde cloked with the sheepe skinnes of fained holinesse and vertue which though it be many times discouered yet is it many times so closely conueyed that it clearly escapeth the iudgement of all men Who was euer hable to chardge that damnable heretike Pelagius with any notorious crime or wicked behauiour in his outwarde life and conuersation you your selfe confesse that there appeared in him nothing but grauity constancy and humility If his doctrine had not bene found contrary to the word of God he shoulde neuer haue bene tried to be a faulse prophete by his workes Such are many of his scholers the free will men of our time whose opinion if it were not manifestly repugnant to the authoritie of the holy Scriptures there manners are vnreprouable in the iudgemeÌ„t of mortall men The like may be said of Iouinian who if he were so great an heretike as you make him yet he himselfe as you shew after out of Augustine offended not in that which he perswaded others to doe Your last example of heretiks openly professing vice is of Mahomet by whose licentious doctrine you affirme that your faith Christes Church were brought to a small roome very great streights If this be true thaâ— you affirme that the Catholike Church must be otherwise estemed and by other notes then you are wont to describe it or else your Church by your owne assertion can not be counted Catholike For if Christes Church be brought to a small roome and great streights where is vniuersality Consent of all nations multitude of people c. that you are wont to talke of But by your discipline the schoole of lust hath bene reasonably till our dayes kept vnder the grauitie of Christian maners as the time serued orderly vpholden You doe well to qualifie your asseueration with those termes reasonably orderly and as the time serued For otherwise the whole Christian worlde should be witnesse against you and yet to shew with what reason order or opportunitie the schoole of lust hath bene shut vp before our time or yet is Wher your doctrine most preuaileth let the filthy stewes and brothel houses opened in euery citie yea and at your mother citie of Rome most licentiously of all other not onely by your gouernours permitted but also by your doctors defended let them I say beare sufficient witnesse against you 2 But now once againe in our cursed dayes the great flowe of sinne turning Gods mercy from vs with exceding prouocation of his heauy indignation towards the wicked hath made our aduersary much mâ—re bold and long practise of mischiefe a great deale more skilful The serpent passed all other creatures in subtelty at the beginning but now in cruelty he farre passeth him selfe The downefall that he hath in a fewe yeares rage driuen man vnto by thopen supporting of sinfull liuing it is sure very wofull to remember and an exceding hearts greefe to consider Looke backe at the Christian Epicures whom I now named view the men of like endeuour in al ages compare their attempts to ours their doctrine to ours the whole race of their proceedings to ours And if we match them not in all pointes and passe them in most I except the wicked Mahomet and God graunt I may so doe long though they had out of his holy schoole their often diuorciâ—s and new mariages in their wiues life excepting him therefore if ours passe not in open practise of mischiefe and supportation of sinne all the residue miscredit me for euer This is euident to all men that thinges once counted detestable before God abhorred of the priestes straunge to the Christian people punishable by the lawes of all Princes be now in case to maintaine them selues to geue vertue a checke mate and without all colour to beare downe both right and religion Thus doth sacriledge boldly beare out it selfe and ouerreacheth the promoters of Gods honour so doth incest encounter with lawfull mariage the
them to life and placeth them in heauen with christ Ephes. 2. And as for that painfull penaunce that M. Allen complaineth to be so neglected in our tyme he chargeth vs vniustly with the cause thereof For within tyme of mans memory before the light of the Gospell did shine openly we saw no such painfull penaunce commonly but v. ladyes psalters v. pater nosters v. pence to v. poore men in remembraunce of the v. woundes v. fry dayes fast and such like And as for pilgrimage it was but a pastime for such as loued to roue about the cuntryes The hardest penaunce was to pay so deare for the paultry of Monkes merites and Fryers fables Popes pardons and such like Et hinc illae lachrymae This maketh the bitter complaint that this marchaundise will no more be bought but this is the iudgement of God vpon the great whore of Babylon 3 Considering therefore the great spread of contagion that this vntrue doctrine hath wrought both to the euerlasting miserie of heretikes them selues and also to the greuous punishment that almighty God of iust iudgement may take vpon vs that by his great mercy be yet Catholikes because we liue in wanton welth with out iust care or cogitation of our life past Neither doing any worthy fructes of penaunce nor yet endeuouring to make a mendes and recompense by satisfying for our sinnes before of mercy so pardned that to our damnation they can not now any more be imputed but yet for answering in summe parte of Gods iustice and perfect purging of the same sinnefull life past out of all doubte sharpely punishable for these thinges I say and for the stirring vp of the feare of God in my selfe the helpe of the simple the defense of the trueth and thabating of this great rage of sinne and heresie I thought good to geue warning moued therevnto by my frende also to all such as be not them selues able to searche out the trueth of these matters of that temporall or transitory punishment which God of iustice hath ordained in the other worlde for such as woulde not iudge them selues and preuent his heauy hand whiles they here liued our forefathers more then a thousand yeare since called it Purgatory The truth and certaine doctrine whereof I trust through Gods goodnesse so clearely to proue that the aduersary be he neuer so great with the Deuill shall neuer be able to make any likely excuse of his infidelitie And that so done I shall both open and proue the meanes which the Church of God hath euer profitably vsed for the reliefe of her children from the same punishment to the soueraigne good and comfortable for the faithfull soules departed And here I hartely pray thee gentle Reader whosoeuer thou be that shall finde iust occasion vndoubtedly to beleue this article of necessary doctrine euer constantly set forth by the grauest authoritie that may be in earth that as thou faithfully beleues it so thou perpetually in respect of the day of that dreadfull visitation study with feare and trembling to worke thy saluation Let that be for euer the difference betwixt the vnfruitefull faith of an heretike and the profitable beliefe of the true Catholike Christian that this may worke assured penaunce to perpetuall saluation and his vaine presumption to euerlasting damnation And though the matter which I haue taken in hand be nothing fitte for the diet of such delicate men as haue bene brought vp vnder the pleasant preaching of our dayes yet perchaunce change of diet with the sharpnesse of this eager sawse were if they could beare it much more agreable to their weake stomackes Trueth was euer bitter and faulshood flattering For th one by present paine procureth perpetuall wealth thother through deceitfull sweetenes worketh euerlasting woe But as for these pleasure preachers them selues because I feare me they haue indented with death and shaked hands with hell whatsoeuer may be sayd in this case they will yet spurne with the wordes of the wicked Flagellum inundans cum transierit not veniet super nos quia posuimus mendacium spem nostram mendacio protecti sumus Tush the common scourge when it passeth ouer shall not touch vs for we haue made lying our succour and by lying are we garded Yet when the light of the Apostolike tradition shall dase their eyes and the force of Gods truth beare downe their boldnes their owne blacke afflicted conscience by inward acknowledging that truth which they openly withstand shall so horribly torment their mindes that denying Purgatory they shall thinke them selues a liue in hell But gentle Readers pray for them with teares that God of his mighty grace would strike their flesh with his feare And if my poore paine with the prayers of vs all could turne any one of them all from the way of wickednesse it would recompense doubtlesse some of our sinnes and couâ—r a number of my misdeedes And euer whilest we liue let vs praise God that in this time of temptation he hath not suffered vs to fall as our sinnes haue deserued into the misery of these forsakers To whom if I speake sometimes in this treatise more sharply then my custome or nature requireth the zeale of truth and iust indignation towards heresie with the example of our forefathers must be my excuse and warrant I wil be as plain for the vnlearneds sakes as I may the matter suffer And therfore now at the first I will open the very ground as neare as I can of so necessary an article that the ignorance of any one peece may not darken the whole cause Desiring the studious to reade the whole discourse because euery peculiar pointe so ioyntly dependeth of the residewe that the knowledge of one orderly geueth light to all the other And so the whole togither I â—rust shall reasonably satisfie his desire 3 Here as I take it in the second face of the 18. leafe beginneth the 3. matter promised in the argument namely a briefe note of the authors intent c. The chiefe consideration as I gather is for that men endeuour not to make amendes and recompence by satisfying for their sinnes and therefore for answering some part of Gods iustice and perfect purging of the same sinnefull life past there remayneth sharpe punishment after this lyfe I will commit to Christ to be reueÌ„ged the horrible iniury done to his death and bloud shedding which if it be not a full aunswering of Gods iustice and a perfect purging of all our sinnefull life in vaine shall we seeke it else where But I will reason with M. Allen in his owne principles What say you Sir remayneth there some part of Gods iustice to be aunswered by suffering Surely if the passion of Christ will not serue that was the immaculate lambe of God it were straunge that the suffering of a sinnefull man should satisfie the same And if suffering of the party that hath sinned be necessarily required for aunswering some part of
to the places of punishment in the next life let them with purgatory rase vp the fathers resting place so plainely set forth by scripture beleued of the whole Church and alwayes taught by the holy fathers Yea let them that will haue no place for sinners finde with blasphemie hell like torments for Gods owne Sonne with the damned spirites My hearte surely will scarse serue me to report it and yet cursed Caluine was not afearde to write it and with arrogant vauntes against the blessed fathers to auouch the same That miserable forsaken man sawe that the onely graunt of the olde fathers punishment by the lacke of euerlasting ioye might of force driue him to acknowledge that God sometimes exerciseth his iustice vpon those which he loueth in the next life and so consequently that Purgatory paynes might be inferred therevppon therefore he fell headelong to this horrible blasphemye that Christ went not to loose any from the paynes of the next life but to be punished in hell with the deadely damned him selfe for to amend the lacke of his passion vppon the Crosse. O our cursed tyme O corrupt conditions this beast writeth thus agaynst our blessed Sauiours death and against the sufficiency of the abundant price of our redemption and yet he liueth in mans memory yea his bookes be greedely redd redde Nay by such as would be counted the chiefe of the cleargy and beare Byshops names they are commaunded to be redde and the very booke wherein this all other detestable doctrine is vttered especially by their authority commended to the simple Curats study that they might there learne closely in deuilish bookes such wicked heresies as the preachers them selues dare not yet in the light of the world vtter nor maintaine But other be not so farre fallen therefore they must of reason confesse that God by iust correction hath before Christes comming visited in the next world many hundred yeares togither the sinnes of those whome he dearly loued Although not onely in all that time the soules of the holy Patriarches felt the lacke of the aboundant fruition of the Maiesty but also for sinne they both then in rest and now in vnspeakeable felicity want till this day the encrease of ioy and blesse that by the receauing of their bodyes yet lying in dust they are vndoubtedly sure of Therfore it is ouer much presumption to limit the maiesty of God in the gouernment of his owne creatures to the borders of our short life and almost it toucheth his very prouidence with iniury to say that he letteth him scape without punishment for his sinnes that repented not till the houre of death as for whom he hath no scourge in the next life as he had here if death had not preuented his purpose These childish cogitations can not stand with the righteousnes of his will that for the first sinne committed doth not onely punish many euerlastingly of the forsaken sorte but also for the same punisheth both his best beloued in earth and for a time abateth the felicity of the blessed Sainctes in heauen But I will not stray after these men My matter is so fruitefull that I may not roue And though the sectes of these dayes haue so infected euery braunch of our christian faith that a man can not well ouerpasse them what so euer he taketh in hand yet I will not medle with them no further then shall concerne the quicke of our cause and the necessary light of our matter 5 Now this lusty gallaunt as though he had fully repayred and fortified the olde ruinous and battered towers of limbus patrum with canuas paynted walls he standeth vpon his bulwarke of browne paper and cryeth defiaunce to all his enemies and especially he vttereth his spite agaynst Caluine as a notorious enemy of his cause quarel Whom because he is to young to encounter withall by any witt learning reason or truth he spitteth out against him most impudent sclaunders raylings and lyes in which faculty he hath striued so much to shew him selfe eloquent that not satisfying him selfe with the voyce of a man he hath borrowed the tongue of the Deuill him selfe or at the least wise for feare he should not lye throughly geuen ouer his shamelesse tongue to be wagged by the father of lyes For what man with any shewe of humane reason would accuse Caluine to deny the sufficiency of the redemptiō of Christ to affirme that Christ went downe into hell after his death to be punished there with the damned him selfe for to amend the lacke of his passion vpon the crosse whose doctrine God him selfe the Angells and all the world doth knowe and testifie to be directly contrary to these sclaunders For who euer more constantly affirmed or more substantially proued the sufficiency of our redemption by Christes death what asse so vnlearned if he can but conster Caluins latine in his catechisme institutions or any part of his workes where he entreateth of that article of Christes descense in to hell may not plainly see that he vtterly denieth his descending into hell after his life affirming the same to be vnderstood of the wrath of God which he sustayned for our sinnes before his death at that time especially when he that was God complained that he was forsaken of God which mystery if M. Allen vnderstand not it is no maruell seeing he abridgeth so much the benefite of Christes redemption as all papistes doe alwayes and he specially in this his defence of purgatory and yet he is not ashamed to say of Caluine this beaste writeth against our blessed Sauiours death If I did not moderate somwhat my corrupt affections I could requite him the like reproches but this much I must needes say Is Caluine a beast for speaking the truth to the glory of Christes redemption Allen an honest man for sclaundering him to the defacing of Gods honour But because he would not be thought to haue spued oute all his poison against Caluine he goulpeth vp an other bowlefull of rayling and sclaundering against our Bishoppes who haue not onely suffered but also commended Caluins bookes to be reade and studied of the simple curates affirming that they doe priuily set forth by books that which they dare not openly preach If euery man that can be a witnesse that M. Allen lyeth in this matter should pull one heare from his heade or bearde they would leaue him neuer an heare of an honest man behinde them But that he maie returne to his gentle aduersaries with whome is lesse daungerous dealing there be some he sayth that graunt the punishment of the fathers after their death of whose liberall concession he doubteth not but to patch vp his Purgatory In which practise he is not vnlike a fonde fellowe of whome I haue hearde men iest in Cambridge who when he was non plus as they terme it in disputation and all his argument spent that he had prouided Now sayth he will I dispute of your concesses
and good workes shew their coÌ„uersion not only by wordes but in deed and in trueth c. With them the Byshop maie deale more gently whereas those that thinke it is sufficient onely to enter into the Church are charged in any wise to keepe the ordinary time c. Wherefore he that gathereth that paines are due to sinnes after remission of them by example of them that remitted no sinnes but after sufficient paines suffered for them or amendes made for them I holde him not onely malitious blinde but beastly vnreasonable 4 And if any man yet doubt why or to what end the Church of Christ thus greuousely tormenteth her owne children by so many meanes of heuy correction whome she might by good authoritie freely release of their sinnes let him assuredly know that she coulde not so satisfie Gods iustice alwayes by whome she holdeth her authoritie to edifie and not to destroye to bynd as well as to loose Although such dolour for offensies committed and so earnest zele may she sometimes finde in the offender that her chiefe and principall pastors may by their soueraigne authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come But els in the commoÌ„ case of Christian men this penaunce is for no other cause enioyned but to saue them from the more greuous torment in the worlde following In the which sense S. Augustine both speaketh him selfe and proueth his meaning by the Apostles wordes as followeth Propterea de quibusdam temporalibus poenis quae in hac vita peccantibus irrogantur eis quorum peccata delentur ne reseruentur in finem ait Apostolus si enim nosmetipsos iudicaremus a domino noÌ„ iudicaremur Cum iudicamur autem a domino corripimur ne cum hoc mundo dâ—mnemur Therefore sayth he it is of certaine temporall afflictions which be laid vpon their neckes that being sinners haue their trespasses pardoned lest they be called to an accompt for them at the latter ende that the Apostle meaneth by when he sayth If we woulde iudge our selues we shoulde not then be iudged of our lord And when we be iudged of our Lord then are we chastened that we be not damned with the worlde This onely carefull kindnesse of our mother therefore that neuer remitted sinne that was notorious in any age but after sharp punishment or earnest charge with some proportionall penaunce for the same doth not onely geue vs a louing warning to beware and preuent that heuie correction of the worlde to come which S. Paule calleth the iudgement of God because it is a sentence of iustice but also in her owne practise here in earth of mercy in pardoning of iustice in punishment she geueth vs a very cleare example of both the same to be vndoubtedly looked for at the handes of God him selfe by whome in the kingdome of the Church these both in his behalfe be profitably practised For if there were no respect of the dredfull day in the ende of our life nor any paine further due for sinnes remitted in the next world then were it cruell arrogancy in the ministers to charge men with penaunce needlesse to the offender and foly to the sufferer But God forbid any shoulde be so malipert or misbeleuing as to miscredit the doinges and doctrine of the Catholike Church which by the authoritie she hath to binde sinnes and the protection of the holy Ghost hath vsed this rodde of correction to the profit of so many and hurte of none euer sence our maisters death and departure 4 Marke here gentle reader what an absolute power of remissioÌ„ of sinns this Papist doth ascribe to the Church that she might he sayth by good authority freely release men of their sinnes with out satisfying of Gods iustice but that she will not except in some case where she findeth such dolour and zeale in the offender that her chiefe and principall Pastors may by there soueraine authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come Marke here the soueraigne authoritie of the Pope not subiect no not to the iustice of god For els how should the Popes pardons stand or Christes merites be excluded if the Pope had not power to doe by his soueraigne authority that Christ coulde not doe by his bitter passion to discharge penitent sinners of all paines to come you see therefore that the Popish church is not as a wife subiect to Christ her spouse to exercise on earth the authoritie of Christ in heauen according to his will but a presumptuous harlot to claime soueraigne authoritie in earth wherevnto he is bounde which is in heauen For otherwise though the olde fathers that were most earnest in maintaining the Churches authoritie as Cyprian Sermo de lapsis speaking against theÌ„ which thought it was sufficient if they were receiued by the ordinary authoritie of the Church although they were not truely penitent writeth thus Nemo se fallat nemo decipiat Solus dominus misereri potest veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt solus potest ille largiri qui peccata nostra portauit qui pro nobis doluit quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris Homo Deo esse non potest maior nec remittere aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est ne adhuc lapso hoc accedat ad crimen si nesciat esse praedictum Maledictus homo qui spem habet in homine Dominus orandus est dominus nostra satisfactione placandus est qui negantem negare se dixit Let no man sayth he deceiue him selfe let no man begile him selfe It is onely the Lorde that can shew mercy Onely he can graunt pardon to offenses that are coÌ„mitted against him who hath borne our sinnes Who hath suffered sorrow for vs whome God hath geuen for our sinnes A man can not be greater then God neither can the seruaunt by his indulgence remit or forgeue that which by so great offence is committed against the Lorde lest this offence also be added to him that is fallen away if he know not that it is fore shewed Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man The Lorde must be intreated the Lorde must be pacified with our satisfaction which sayth he doth deny that man that denieth him In these wordes Cyprian not onely plainely denieth that absolute soueraigne authoritie of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfactioÌ„ of god Namely that those which counterfected repentaunce and though by some outwarde obseruations to satisfie the Church might know they had to doe with God who was not pleased but with inwarde and harty conuersion whose knowledge they must satisfie with true repentaunce in deede as they seeke to satisfie iudgement of the Church by externall signes and tokens thereof But to returne to the common case of Christian men for the Popes cases be out of the common case of christen men M. Allen sayth penaunce and by penaunce he
After the sinnes of man be pardoned God oftentimes punisheth the offender the church punisheth him and man punisheth him selfe ergo there is some payne due after sinne be remitted Secondly this payne can not alwayes be discharged in this world eyther for lacke of space after the remission as it happeth in repentaunce at the houre of death or else when the party liueth in perpetuall welth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction therefore it must be aunswered in an other place Thirdly the common infirmities and the dayly trespasses which abase and defile the workes euen of the vertuous of their proper condition doe deserue payne for a tyme as the mortall offence deserueth perpetuall Therefore as the mortall sinne being not here pardoned must of iustice haue the reward of euerlasting punishment so it must needes followe that the veniall fault not here forgeuen should haue the reward which of nature it requireth that is to say temporall payne And therefore not onely the wicked but the very iust also must trauell to haue their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiuen crying without ceasing forgeue vs our debts Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens For no man aliue shal be able to stand before the face of God in his owne iustice or righteousnes and if these light sinnes should neuer be imputed then it were needelesse to cry for mercy or confesse debt as euery man doth be he neuer so passing holy To be briefe this debt of paine for sinne by any way remayning at the departure hence must of iustice be aunswered VVhich can not be without punishmēt in the next life then there must be a place of iudgement for temporall and transitory paynes in the other world The whole discourse made before hath geuen force enough to euery part of the argument the Scriptures doe proue it the practise of the Church confirmeth it all the doctors by our aduersaries graunt agree vpon it If they haue any thing to say here I make them fayre play the ground is open the reasons laide naked before their face remoue them as they can Lette them deale simply if they meane truely and not flourish as they vse vppon a false ground that in flowe of wordes they may couer errour or in rase of their smoth talke ouerrunne truth And that euery man may perceiue that we haue not raised this doctrine vpon reason only or curiositie although the graue authoritie of Gods Church might here in satisfie sober wittes we will now by Gods helpe go nearer the matter and directly make proofe of Purgatory by holy Scriptures reciting such places of the olde and new Testament as shall proue our cause euen in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages by conference of places or other likelyhood shall fynde and determine to be most true Alleaging none els but such as they haue in the flour of Christian faith noted and peculiarely construed for that purpose which now is in question That the aduersaries of that doctrine may rather striue with the said saincts and doctours then with me that will as they shall well perceiue do nothing but truely reporte their wordes or meaninge Or rather that such as haue erred in that case by giuing ouer light credit to the troblesome teachers of these vnhappy dayes maye when they shall vnderstand the true meaning of the Scriptures the constant doctrine of the Catholike Church the wordes of all auncient writers the determination of so many holy Councels the olde vsage of all nations by humble prayers obteine of God the light of vnderstanding the trueth and the gifte of obedience to his will and worde Or if there be any so sattled in this vnlickely sect that he purposeth not to beleue the graue writers of olde times nor receiue their expositions vpon such places as we shall recite for that preiudice which he hath of this owne witte and vnderstanding yet let him not maruell at my simplicity that had rather geue credit to others then my selfe Or that in this hote time of contention and partaking in religion I do repose my selfe vnder the shadow of so many worthy writers as anone shall giue euidence in my cause CAP. V. 1 TRiumphing before the victorie and that is more before the encontry of hāde strokes for we come to ioyning but now you will now win your spurs or els it shal be a blacke daye with all Protestantes I will be as shorte in mine aunswere as you are in your arguments And that I may put on an armour of proofe to beare of your terrible haileshot your first argumēt hath neither good forme nor matter no more hath your second no more hath your third If you or any for you will prepare your selfe to geue a bitter charge either I or some other shal be redy to shape you an other aunswere But because here is nothing in this briefe ioyning but which hath bene largly discharged before in aunswere to your longe excursions it were nedelesse to make such vaine repetition as you doe especially in your last shorte argument in which space all the substaunce of your large booke might easily haue bene placed only to fil vp a competent length of the fift chapter and with such a tedious inlarging of a superfluous matter as a yong practiser of Rhetoricke would be ashamed to vse in a fayned declamation much worse becomming an auncient master of arte professing to trusse vp his arguments by Logicke to make a perfect perswasion As for the promisse of further proofe both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant ioyning and lusty challenge shall haue no preiudice of my disabling of the meane to perform it vntill it appeare by playne conference of his arguments and myne aunswers that his words are but winde and his promisse but pratling That Purgatory paines doth not onely serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse and qualifie the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entraunce into the holy places vvith conferēce of certaine places of Scripture for that purpose CAP. VI. 1 IF we well cōsider the wonderfull base condition and state of mans nature corrupted by our first fathers disobedience and more and more abased by continuall misery that sinne hath brought into our mortall life we shall finde the worke of Gods wisedome in the excellent repaire of this his creature to be full of mercy and full of maruell But proceding somewhat further and weying not onely his restoring but also the passing great anauncement to the vnspeakable glory of the elect there shall reason and all our cogitations vtterly faint and faile vs. The kingdome prepared is honored with the maiestie of the glorious Trinitie with the humanitie of Christ our Sauiour with the blessed Mary the vessell of his Incarnation with the bewtifull creatures and wholy vndefiled of all the ordres of Angels There can nothing doubtlesse
woulde haue robbed the Church of the actes of the Apostles A sect called Alogiani do refuse the Gospell of S. Iohn with the Apocalypse Martine illiricus Caluine and their companions that no man being but an heretique shoulde euer out pricke them will shoulder with the proudest and lifte out of our Bibles the bookes of Machabees with S. Iames Epistle and more when more nede requireth The which Epistle as also the Epistles of Iohn and Iudas were once doubted of not as conteining any matter wherof the trueth was vncertaine but as bookes not knowen to be of like force as canonicall scripture in the impugning of heresies or confirming articles of belefe as all workes be till Gods Church haue published their authority and declared all thinges in them conteined to be of the same credit that the spirite of God is and of Gospell like trueth And by that authority of the Church what booke so euer be allowed though it was not so taken before yet now we must needes accept it sicut vere est verbum Dei as the very word of god And so be these canonicall Epistles and bookes of Machabees as before is declared Here nowe euery man may learne that it is a very daungerous matter to geue lesse credit to any of these bookes or wauer in any point of faith written in them for such fellowes iudgements that nowe amongest them haue lefte vs neither olde nor newe Testament Such stubborne boldenesse had these willfull men in mainteinaunce of mischeuous doctrine VVhose open impudencie was counted handsome conueiaunce of their scholers and adherents which were very many notwithstanding the Catholike Christian men in all ages both meruailed and lamented their blindnesse And yet doubtlesse it is not much to be wondered at to see that man flatly forsake the scripture of God who is not abashed to refuse and condemne that sense and vnderstanding of the Scripture which the whole Church with all her learned men haue euer allowed and counted most holy VVell by the strength of this piller we haue chalenged and saued hitherto for all the barking of bandogges the Scripture of God with the knowne meaning thereof And so I trust we shall doe still from the new aduersaries by the assured promise of thassistance of Gods holy spirite which shall leade vs not onely to the true canonicall Scriptures with the sense of the same but also guide vs in all truth necessary for our saluation Let euery man therefore here take heede how he doubteth of the knowne and certayne sense that the Church of Christ by decree of councell or consent of doctors applyeth to any Scripture least by mistrusting the sayd sense he goe forward vnaduisedly from open deniall of the common to found a priuate meaning of his owne in the stubborne defense whereof when he shall against the truth malipertly stand he goeth vnluckely forward at the end blasphemously reiecteth the blessed word sacred Scripture of God as we haue proued the auncient enemies of truth to haue done and as in these new sect maisters we may to our great dolour see Yet loe euen these are they that in all ages as Vincentius sayth flye in their talke and teaching ouer the law the prophets the Psalmes the Gospell That cry out of pottes pulpits nothing but Gods word the booke of the Lorde the testament of Iesus Christ Paule scripture as it may be supposed and as in th ende it is proued to driue out of doores Paule Scripture Testament and Christ too and not to bring into the peoples heades or heartes the feare and loue of God the holsom precepts of Paules heauenly preaching nor the true meaning of any Scripture VVho being vrged will rather credit a minstrells ballat then the Machabeis or best booke in the Bible But now you may see that whiles these men thought to saue their credits by miscrediting the Scripture they haue wrought so wisely that they haue lost their owne credits both in this poynt and in all other for euer And as they hoped by deniall of Scripture to cloke their errour they haue wonne to them selues the property of an heretike by open shew of their owne folly 3 And euen as vaine friuolous is this discourse that followeth to shew what bookes of scripture were in olde time refused by what heretikes But you thinke to match vs with them for denying the Machabees where vnto you adde the Epistle of S. Iames. If Martine and Illyricus haue some times doubted of that Epistle they are not the first that doubted of it Eusebius sayth plainely it is a counterfect Epistle lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accompted an heretike I saye not this to excuse them that doubt of it for I am perswaded they are more curious then wise in so doing but whereas you ioine Caluine with them it is because you can not leaue to lye with out shame while you are an instrument to defend diuelish errors with out shewe of trueth For Caluine receiueth it defendeth it expoundeth it and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical scripture Therefore if he were as ill as you compt him yet it were shame to lye on the deuill But we shall not nede to â—ake among the olde heresies to finde what bookes of holy Scripture you Papistes refuse when it is an easy matter to take your owne confessions and bolde assertions by which it is manifest that you doe not as those heretikes which you name reiect some one or two bookes but the whole authority of all the canonicall scriptures For when you affiâ—me that no booke of holy Scripture is canonicall but so farre forth as your Church will allow it who seeth not that you doe abrogate all maiestie and authoritie from the word of God submitting it to the iudgements of men Moreouer when you will not admit any sence of the scripture but such as your Church wil allow although the same be contrary to the plaine wordes thereof what authority doe you leaue to the worde of God which you make to be but a dead lettre vntil you geue it such a sence as it pleaseth you Finally where you make decrees of men either priuate or common customes traditions vnwritten verities in which is no certainety at all not onely equiualent but also oftentimes superior to the auctority of holy scriptures what certainety credit or estimation doe you leaue to the scriptures of God aboue other writinges nay all other writinges are in better case then the scriptures are with you For other writings may be compted the workes of their authors with out your censure the holy Scripture may not be compted the worde of God except you list so to allow it which may as well refuse that which is Gods worde in deede as you receiue and obtrude that which is not the worde of God at all Other writings haue such sence as the authors haue expressed them selues in their workes and maye be gathered by their wordes The
left out of our seruice which he tormeth like him self prayers and sacrifice for the deade as though he hath not bene often tolde by the example of Gods Church â–ª whereof wâ— haue sure warrant out of Gods word by example of the eldest Church and nearest to the Apostles tymes as we haue shewed out of Iustinus Martyr and Tertullian before he became an heretike And as for him that affirmed the old Liturgies to make against your masse though he be better able to aunswere for him selfe yet haue I shewed also that there are none so full of blasphemy as your masse is And it is easie to be gathered by Epiphanius that the olde forme of liturgie was but to make mention of the deade to haue them in remembraunce And because they vsed to make memory of all sortes of men that were deade in Christ he expoundeth it according to the errour of his time that this memory was a prayer for the sinners for the iust as Patriarkes Prophets c. a signification that they were inferior to christ A simple cause why they should be remembred but this shift he is driuen vnto because he did not coÌ„sider that the memory and oblation which the olde fathers made for all departed in Christ was a sacrifice of thankes giuing and not of prayers for them The same order errour doe all the later liturgies follow making memory prayers for all them that are departed in the faith In the memory of all departed they follow the olde order in praying for all they follow the latter error which had chaunged the sacrifice of thankes giuing into the sacrifice of prayer But herein they declared that they had not yet generally receiued your newe doctrine of purgatory because they prayed not as you doe for them onely that are in purgatory to whom onely you confesse the prayers to be needefull and profitable but for all that are departed in the fayth of Christ from the beginning of the worlde And now Syr I haue shewed wherein they make against you But where as you taunt at the author of that booke because he setteth not his name vnto it you shew your witte bewray your disease You can neither tell what to speak nor yet how to hold your peace In the margent you gesse it was M. Pilkington of Duresme you would faine haue such a man to be your aduersary that though you tooke the foyle yâ—t you might boast that you were so bold as to fight with him But it is an easyer matter for such a desperate dicke to beginning a fraye then to ende it If I may be as bolde to gesse as you I gesse that he which made that lusty chalenge of the Papist against the Protestant promising to recant at the ende of euery article if he colde be aunswered was such a tryed Thraso as M. Allen if you aske me what is the grounde of my gesse to omit the stile somewhat like I will aunswere as one in Plautus doth Credo te esse ab illo nam ita nugas blattis I take it to be euen you you are so full of bracing and facing But who so euer he was was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name vnto it and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise Finally be all those Papistes ashamed of their names which haue written so many petty pamphlettes to be caried abrode in Popish fellowes pocketts O intemperate tonge which can not spare such tauntes as redounde to him selfe and his owne good maisters reproch Your lyes of offering worshipping and praying to the hoste be reproued alredy you say we might with more honesty haue coped for one of those Lyturgies if we liked not Gregories Masse rather then to haue forged a new I aunswere we haue with more honesty reformed our Lyturgie according to the worde of God and example of the oldest Church then Gregory Basill Chrysostome if they were theirs or who so euer were authors of those Liturgies did leaue the auncient Lyturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time because they did not sufficiently expresse their errors and superstition and forge them newe of their owne contrary to the worde of god And where as you prate of the Latine Church and the East parte we neither refuse the Latine Church while it was pure nor receiue the East Church where in it was corrupt but the scripture is a rule vnto vs to iudge all Churches by Although it were easy to proue by that coÌ„trouersie which the Britaynes and the Scottes had against the Saxons about the celebration of Easter that our countrie first receiued their conuersion from the East Church whose ceremonie they did then defend euen as the East Church did longe before against Victor Bishoppe of Rome By which it appeareth that this lande did neuer receiue the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latine Church before the time of the Saxons And whereas you slaunder vs for referringe our faith to an vncertaine and vnknowen Origine the contrary is manifest when we referre it to no iudgement or company of men but to the authoritie of Gods worde and all them that will be subiect therevnto But I tarye to longe in these trifles 3. Euery man in the primitiue Church counted the spring of his faith more pure and a great deale more cleare if he coulde against an heretike declare by good testimony that his belefe did at length by iust counte fall into the Romane Church So doth Irenaeus against the Valentinians so doth Cyprian against the Nouatians so doth Tertullian and Vincentius against all heretikes so doth Augustine and Optatus against the Donatistes so doth Hyerom and all the reste against the Arians All these thought they had a great vauntage if they could by plaine accompt proue against an heretike that their doctrine ishued from the Byshop of Rome Goe whether thou wilt saith Tertulian and thou shalt finde some Apostolike seat to instruct thy conscience thou hast harde by the Philippos or Ephesus or Rome and there loe fetch we the authority of our faith S. Augustine that knewe best how to fetche an heretike ouer the coles vrgeth him euer to reduce his doctrine to some Bishop of Rome when he had him once at that strait then loe he goeth through the whole ranke of holy Byshoppes by name to the nomber of fourty well neare Bring me once an euident declaration that your faith ishued from any one byshop of that Sea and then you may passe throw the longe line of that succession with out bracke or any rupture in the worlde I coulde make accompt sayth Irenaeus of many successions of Apostolike Churches but that were to longe only Rome shall serue that is the greatest the auncientest and best knowen and by the tradition of that Church confundimus omnes eos we vtterly confounde all heretikes It is a straunge thinge that the fathers hauing store of Apostolike
hearte or eare coulde abide these blasphemous tonguesâ— who of vntolerable arrogancy doe so deface the examples and doctrine not onely of the pillours of the whole Christian Church whome they impudently for lacke of a more reasonable aunswere condemne not onely of simple ignoraunce and errour in this point with the residue of the whole faithfull people which surely is ouer much to say of such learned and godly men as they were but also of wilfull errour and superstition in bearing and maintenaunce of the common ignoration and ethnicke perswation of the worlde in their dayes and following the heathen vsage of the gentilitie And yet not content therewith these lying maisters of their meere mercy be content to offer a pardon to the author of that booke for his errour which booke the whole catholike Church of God through out Christiandome taketh for canonicall scripture VVhich arrogancy and passing boldnesse although I perswade my selfe no vertuous man will in them allowe sith they nowe being put to their shiftes vtterly doe condemne those fathers whose names with great oftentation they often to the simple repeate to make them suppose they be not with out scripture or doctors for the proofe of their willfull heresies yet euen the very aâ—nswere it selfe which they imagine here in to disgrace the doctors and delude the ignoraunt is contrary to it selfe in sundry points For they one while affirme that S. Augustine and others allowed that errour which the people by their superstitious deuotion had before their time brought in to the prayers of the Church and an other while that Iudas Machabaeus did institute it who was before these authors diuars hundreths of yeares and somewhile that they borowed it of the gentilitie all which pointes be repugnant eche to other For neither coulde that beginne in our Christian doctours dayes which was vsed before Christes birthe neither neede they to borowe it of the heathen which was in estimation and praysed amongest the Iewes 9 We neede no shiftes M. Allen for the authoritie of the doctors whome we neuer allow for canonicall Scriptures and therefore we may boldly say as Augustine sayth of Cyprian what so euer we find in them agreable to the Scriptures we receaue it with their prayse and what so euer is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leaue Now by what meanes they fell into this errour that maintained prayer and almes for the dead I shal haue better occasion to shew in the aunswere to the 14. chapter although it be not greatly material to know how they came into errour when it is sufficiently proued that they did erre As for the abridgement of Iason the Cyrenians story which M. Allen maketh such a precious iewell I haue aunswered inough before that the author him selfe desiring pardon of his readers hath testified sufficiently that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost as also by many other vnauoydable reasons with the consent of the Catholike Church which it were superfluous here to repete Finally whereas you say that our aunswere is contrary to it selfe you seeke a knot in a rush For all may be true First the deuill suggested superstitious deuotion into the Gentiles by peruerse emulation of whom Iudas might be deceiued and his fact giue occasion to the ignorant people of errour and their ignorance first winked at because it had a shew of pietie confirmed by custome might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who neuer weighed the matter by Scriptures but by the commoÌ„ practise And this I thinke is the right degree of prayers for the deade and purgatory That the praying for the dead vvas appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiesty of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries CAP. XIII 1 BVt that this falshood may better appeare in these men we will by good testimony trye out when and by whom the oblation and sacrifice with other ordinarie reliefes of the departed were so vniformely vsed through the Christian worlde as like wise it shall be profitable to consider who were the first authors of the contrary opinions And that the holy Ghost by the Apostles owne preaching and prescription was the first author of this solemne supplicatioÌ„ in masses of all vsages for the departed I might first proue by this generall rule of S. Augustine Quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia nec concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate apostolica traditum rectissime credimus that which the whole Church obserueth and hath alwayes so bene kepte being not instituted by any Councell it can not otherwise be had but by the Apostles authoritie and tradition And so by the like saying of Leo the greate Dubitandum non est quicquid in ecclesia in consuetudinem est deuotionis retentum de traditione apostolica de S. Spiritus prodire doctrina It can not be doubted but that what so euer is in the Church by generall custome of deuotion kept and mainteined it came out of the Apostles traditioÌ„ and doctrine of the holy Ghost But I will seeke with them by certaine demonstration and plaine ordre of reason that it must needes so be Praying for the deade was inuented by no man sith the Apostles dayes there can no one be named by the aduersary before whome I can not name an other that praide for the dead Let him say where he list this man or that man was the first that euer praide for the deade in Christes Church if I can not shewe an other before him so named to haue praide also we will take him for the first author and then he fully stoppeth our course that we can not bring this obseruation so high as the Apostles dayes But if the aduersary can apoint me out no time nor person that began this vsage before which I am not able to proue it was practised then they can not let vs but we must needs driue it vpwarde to the Apostles and Christes owne institution CAP. XIII 1 IF prayer for the deade was appoynted by the Apostles commaundement why is there neuer a worde thereof in their writinges there is warrant â—or lesser matters then this is made of why is this and all other popish trash counted their tradition which can not be warranted by their writing If I were disposed to pose you this question would make you clawe your poll an hundred times before you could imagine any couloâ—able aunswere for right aunswere you shall neuer be able to make But I take not vpon me to pose but to aunswere first your authoritie of Augustine serueth not your turne for prayers for the deade haue not bene alwayes obserued namely in the Apostles times nor long after The saying of Leo the great may be backed with the writing of Leo the great Epi. 10. Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendum veritatem aliquo impediuntur
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
and knowe of their owne conscience that they be directly against them yet dare not openly charge them with falshood as they doe vs their scholars but rather as I sayd seeke some sentence out of them to helpe their owne cause then with their plaine condemnation of falshood to refuse their authoritie S. Augustine busyed much with the Pelagians and charged by them in disputation that he defended the Manicheis doctrine concerning originall sinne for his defense and warraunt proueth vnto them that S. Ambrose taught the same doctrine that he did and yet they durst not be so bolde to call him a Manichie Dic huic Ambrosio si audes quae mihi tam petulanter obiectas Thou heretike sayeth he say the same by S. Ambrose if thou dare for shame which thou so sausely and wantonly obiectes to me Looke I pray you Ambrose was but newe deade when his onely name did feare the heretike wheÌ„ other aliue of as good learning was contemned of him and by wordes of reproche charged with the Manicheis secte who was a wicked man of horrible sectes not long before those dayes Pelagius out of doubte thought no better of Ambrose and Cyprian deade then he did of Augustine and Innocentius a liue because their doctrine was all one but yet the men departed were of more authority in Gods Church then the liuing of whose continuance to the ende men were vncertaine before the proofe thereof and their wordes being deade might easely be wrasted to some shew of their purpose when the authority of the liuing coulde not admit any such false dealinge them selues bearing witnesse of the meaning of their own words VVell then our doctors of Gods Church being all of holy estimation and blessed memory doe so dase the eyes euen of their owne aduersaries that being of the very same doctrine that we who by Gods grace be membres of the Catholike Church be of yet they are past the malice of those which like not their doing and doctrine For the heretikes well knowing them to be the authors or at the least especiall mainteiners of this our assertion of the valew of prayers and the holy sacrifice for the departed yet they dare not but clokedly reprehende them when they flowe against the poore Catholikes nowe aliue with wordes of infinite blasphemie and sclaunderous reproche Therefore I nowe will call vppon them with S. Augustines wordes Come on all the packe of you who so euer is the prowdest Protestant vpon the earth call if he dare S. Denyse S. Clement Athanas. Chrysostom Ambrose Gregory Bede we are not ashamed of their names as you be of your Maisters Call these Papistes for praying for their freindes call them Idolaters call them superstitious call them enimies of Christes passion say they be iniurious to his death by prouiding a newe sacrifice for sinne tell them they inuented Anniuersaries monthes mindes and yearly offeringes for their owne gayne call them masse mungers call them blinde gydes No you dare not for your eares you dare not disprayse our heauenly gydes you dare not once name your owne 9 M. Allen staâ—â—our wisedome there is no man will graunt you that the doctors of Gods Church Augustine Ambrose Chrysostom Basill c. are al togither yours because they haue allowed some one or two thinges that you doe and haue condemned the whole substance and principall groundes of your religion Nay rather count vpon the Popes to be the pillers of your Church doctors of your learning and fathers of your faith that haue bene within these seuen or eight hundreth yeares and see whether we might not with more honesty bragge of Iouinian and Vigilantius then you in your conscience can glory in a whole huÌ„dreth of them almost And whereas you bable of Augustine and the Pelagians if you were posed to answere vppon your conscience doe you defend Gods eternall predestination with Augustine rather then free will with Pelagius the only grace of God to be the whole cause of mans saluation as Augustine doth or the merites of workes as the Pelagians doe And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine dic huic Ambrosio c. to proue that Ambrose may not be gaine sayde what so euer he writ you shall heare what Augustine him selfe sayth of the same Ambrose when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians as though he defended freewill in his booke de gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrosius Episcopus in cuius praecipuè libris Romana elucet fides qui scriptorum inter Latinos flos quidem enituit cuius fidem purissimum in Scripturis sensum ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere Ecce qualibus quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctum nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum Blessed Ambrose sayth the Pelagian that Bishop in whose bookes specially the Romane faith doth shine which glistered as a certeyne flower among the Latine writers whose fayth and most pure sense in the Scriptures no not his enemy durst reprehend c. Behold sayth Augustine with what howe great prayses he extolleth him which though he be neuer so holy and well learned yet is he not to be compared with the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Loe here the authoritie of Ambrose or any man And by the way note here the hereticall bragge of the Romane faith Finally where you stand forth like a peeuish quarrell picker to dare vs with S. Augustines wordes we may well say vnto you as to such a busy body good fellow thou makest more a doe then thou needest here is no man disposed to striue with Clemens Dionysius Athanasius Chrysostome nor Augustine if they haue spoken any thing that helpeth the matter bring it forth where due triall may be had in the meane time bragge of them as much as thou wilt thou shalt neuer be able to proue that of 20. errors which thou defendest they did hold one If they haue spoken otherwise then truth in any matter they must be told of it as well as other men But thou must not thinke that for one error common with them thou must hold an 100. coÌ„trary to them Thou doest them wrong to make them thy partakers as thou shalt well know when the triall commeth therefore quiet thy selfe and talke of thyne owne mates as for those men thou hast litle to doe with them nor they with thee but for sclaundering of them to be altogither on thy side 10 Such force hath the trueth and such feare there is in falshood and yet these doctors must needes be in a thousand times worse case then we be if the doctrine of purgatory and prayers be not true VVe may be saued or at least reasonably excused by following they in leading vs in falshood can haue no excuse of their impietie But howe glad may all we Catholikes be in our heartes that haue the full consent of all them in the proofe of our beleue out of
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
many notable fathers as Augustine and other But especially for the approuing of our faith and condemnation of the aduersaries part the whole processe of the great Councell of Florence must be noted for there the question of purgatory and prayers for the deade was fully handeled by the most learned of both the Latine and Greeke Church the Patriarche of Constantinople him selfe with the Legats of Armenia and other nations of that parte being present and fully condescending with the Romane Church vpon the trueth of purgatory and other graue mysteries into the doubt of which that part of the Church by schisme miscredit of their forefathers had fallen into not loÌ„g before and so made perfect protestation of their faith with the abiuring of the contrary as heresie But omitting that longe processe and large treatie of the matter for the establishing of euery mans conscience I wil conclude vp all the matter with the Councell and the holy Ghosts determination of all the whole cause in these wordes Si verè poenitentes in Dei charitate decesserint antequam dignis poenitentiae fructibus de commissis satisfecerint omissis eorum animas poenis purgatorijs purgari vt à poenis huiusmodi releuentur prodesse eis viuorum fidelium suffragia missaruÌ„ scilicet sacrificia orationes eleemosynas alia pietatis officia quae a fidelibus pro alijs fidelibus fieri consueuerunt secundum ecclesiae instituta VVe define and determine that true penitents departing in the fauour of God before they satisfied for their negligencies or faultes committed by worthy fructes of penaunce shall be clensed by purgatory paines and likewise for the release thereof the prayers of the faithfull the sacrifice of the blessed Masse and almes with other thinges customably practised by the faithfull for their freindes decessed according to the ordinaunce of Gods Church to be profitable CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient that we knowe God in his holy worde to be the first founder of our doctrine and therefore that they lye blasphemously which woulde make any heretike the author of it And as for the authority of Councels that is alleaged against vs we haue shewed before that the decrees of 95. Can. of Car. the forth and second of Vase are flatly falsified which speake not at all of oblations for the deade but oblations of the deade that is such mony as the departed haue bequethed to the vse of the poore The 79. Can. of the forth Councell of Carthage decreed that if penitents dyed before absolution they shoulde haue their memory commended with prayers and oblations The Bracarense decree Can. 39. prescribeth how the mony offered at such commemoration of the deade shoulde be distributed The 34. Can. of the same Councell wherevnto he pointeth vs in this place decreeth that for them that kill them selues no commemoration shoulde be made nor that they shoulde be buried with Psalmes But wherefore trowe you did he omit the next Canon to it which decreeth that neither the commemoration of the holy oblation nor the office of singing Psalmes should be bestowed vpon them that were cathechised and dyed before they were baptised Either he sawe not the booke him selfe or else he misliked that phrase the commemoration of the holy oblation wherby the Bishoppes of that Councell expound what they meane when they named the holy communion to be a sacrifice That is they did not take it to be so properly but onely a commemoration of the holy sacrifice of christ As also when we reade in the olde writers or councells oblation for the deade we must not alwayes vnderstand the celebration of the communion as the Papastes imagine but that monye which first was offered for almes and afterwards superstitiously was taken to be a kind of redemption for their sinnes As in the 11. Councell of Toledo cap. 12. is declared where they decree of such penitents as dyed before reconciliation Placuit nobis vt memoria talium in ecclesâ—s commendetur oblatio pro eorum delicto a presbyteris recipiatur It pleaseth vs say the Bishops of that Synode that the memory of such maye be commended in the Churches and the oblation for their offence maye be taken by the priestes This office that was bestowed vppon the deade which so generally of the olde writers and councells is called a memorye vndoubtedly tooke the name of that which it first was Namely nothing but a memory with thankes giuing which after was corrupted to a prayer for them Lykewise the oblation as Origen testifieth at the first was nothing but almes to the releife of the poore for ioy of the rest of them that were departed and for comfort and godly exercise of them that were a liue But afterwarde it grew to be compted a redemption for the sinnes of the departed and the name of oblation was drawen further to the celebration of the communion and to be compted a sacrifice for the quicke and the deade But before this Councell there was an other Synode helde in Spayne at Toledo called Toletan 3. cap. 21. Where it was decreed that they which by Gods calling departed out of this life shoulde be caâ—yed to their graues onely with singing of Psalmes Forbidding that funerall song which was wonte to be song to the deade and all other vnseemely gestures of morning If you saye this doth not exclude prayers and oblations they adde that it must be thought sufficient for the buriall of Christian mens bodyes that the office of singing of godly Psalmes is bestowed in hope of the resurrection And so throughout the Canon they woulde haue men comforted by the hope of the resurrection affirming that Christian mens bodyes throughout the worlde ought to be no otherwise buried As for the decree of the Councell of Florence is but a meere mockerie For it was helde not past seuen score yeares a goe when at the same time there was an other Councell holden at Basill against it in which the Pope Engenius the fourth who gathered that mocke Coâ—ncell of Ferraria and Florentia was deposed and an other Pope chosen against him So there was one Pope and his councell in Italy and an other Pope with his councell in Germanie Goodly gawdes for fooles to playe with all As for the holy councel which was helde the other day at Trent you did well to put in the margent for it was not worthy to come in the texte If the determination of that councell be so holy why do you Papistes daily breake a nombre of canons decreed therein which conteins scarse a-shadow of reformation But you can dispense with councells as you liste To omit all other canons why doe not your bishoppes and parish priests as often as they minister the sacraments to the people declare the effect of them to such as receiue them in the mother tongue Session 8. c. 7. 2 The which graue determination if any man be so willfull to contemne Let him
fitly stande with the happy case of all those that dye in the fauour of God and assurance of their saluation though they abide sharpe but sweete paine of fatherly discipline for their better qualifying to the ioyes prepared for them and all other the elect So that nowe the mouing of these doubtes hath so litle aduantaged our aduersaries that it hath somewhat geuen occasion of further declaration of our matter then otherwise perchaunce we shoulde haue had 6 The last obiection that you list to trouble your head with all is that voyce which was heard from heauen Apoc. 14. of the blessed state of them that dye in the Lord in the meaning of which you wrest and wrigle like a snake that is smitten on the head but you can not auoyd the strife First you vnderstand it onely of Martyres that dye in the Lord and call Augustine to witnesse thereof As I will not deny but Martyrs are specially comforted by that voyce so I wil affirme that it is to the common comfort and rewarde of all the faythfull in Christ who as they liue in Christ so they dye in christ And witnesse hereof I will not take of flesh and blood but of the holy Ghost Rom 14. None of vs liueth vnto him selfe neither doth any dye vnto him selfe for whether we liue we liue vnto the Lorde and whether we dye we dye vnto the Lorde And the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. nameth the faithfull that are a sleepe in Christ and 1. Thes. 4. them that are deade in christ Wherefore in despite of the deuill and the Pope this blessing apperteyneth to all them that dye in the Lord Iesus Christ as true members of his body and not to them onely that shedde their bloud for christ True it is that all they that would liue godly in Christ Iesus suffer persecution but not all to the death else who are those innumerable Saincts that no man can number of all nations and tongues which S. Iohn sawe Apoc. 7. who are likewise in happy and blessed rest without all maner lacke or hurt hunger thirst or heate but when you are weary of that interpretation you wring out an other that they in purgatory also be happy because they be sure of saluation at last and the rest from labours is either the rest from sinne or else no more but ioy of conscience witnesse of this exposition is the canon of the Masse The witnesse the matter and he that vseth it are all of like credit But if I might pose your conscience M. Allen can you call that a happy rest which is ioyned with such torment misery as you beare men in hand is in purgatory Haue you forgotten that you sayd yere while of Tabitha and Lazarus that it was a benefite for them to be deliuered out of purgatory into this life and is it now a blessing to be dispatched out of this life into purgatory And as for that which you allege out of the canon of your masse declareth that your masse was patched togither of many peeces of diuers colours For you pray for the rest of them whome you confesse to be at rest in Christ you wish easement for them whom you affirme to sleepe in peace As though in Christ were not perfect rest as though in peace there were torment and this exposition you your selfe are weary of also and turne agayne to your former and then backe againe to the latter An vnconstaâ—t man is vncerteyne in all his wayes yet all were litle worth if this place helped not to proue purgatory also For the payne of purgatory is a sweete payne a happy rest a fatherly discipline And yet as Augustine sayth it is but for small faultes or as you say for great faultes that by penance are made small And is God such a mercifull father to punish small faultes so extremely in his children whom he pardoneth of all their great and heynous sinnes O blasphemous helhoundes An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke CAP. XVII 1 BVt yet one common engine they haue as well for the impugnation of the trueth in this point as for the sore shaking of the weake walles of the simples faith allmost in all their fight that they kepe against the Catholikes VVhich though it be not stronge yet it is a marueillous fit reasoning for so fonde a faith For if thou caste an earnest eye vpon their whole doctrine thou shalt finde that it principally and in a maner wholy consistithe in taking awaye or wasting an other faith that it founde before so that the preachers thereof must euer be destroyers pluckers downe and rooters vp of the trueth grounded before VVill you see then what a Protestants faith and doctrine is deny onely and make a negation of some one article of our belefe and that is a forme of his faith which is lightely negatiue There is no free will there is no workes needefull to saluation there is no Church knowen there is no chiefe gouernour therof there be not seuen sacraments they doe not conferre gratiam geue grace Baptisme is not necessary to saluation Christ is not present on the aultar there is no sacrifice there is no priesthood there is no aultar there is no profit in prayers to sainctes or for the deade there is no purgatory Christ went not downe to hell there is no limbus finally if you liste goe forwarde in your negatiue faith there is no hell there is no heauen there is no god Doe you not see here a trimme faith and a substantiall looke in Caluins Institutions and you shall finde the whole frame of this wasting faith There is nothing in that blasphemous booke nor in their Apologies but a gathered bodie of this no faith For so it must needes be that teacheth no trueth but plucketh vp that trueth which before was planted Is it not a prety doctrine that Caluine makes of the sacraments when he telleth not the force of any of them all but onely standeth like a fearce monstruous swhine rooting vp our fathers faith therein CAP. XVII 1 IT vexeth you at the very hart that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures to confirme your doctrine hauing a playne commaundement out of the word of God that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth he is to be accursed And therfore you runne to a childish kinde of Sophistry to say that our argument is negatiue A perlous point that almost all the Papistes thinke them selues more then Chrisippus or Aristoteles when they tell vs that our argument is ab auctoritate negatiuè Alacke poore logicke All knowledge that christian men haue of heauenly thinges is grounded vpon the authority of Gods word therefore as it is no good logicke to conclude negatiuely of one place or booke of Scripture this is not conteined in it therefore it is not true so of the whole doctrine of God wherein all truth necessary to saluation is