and explaned Page 53. 54 The summe of the second answere touching the true meaning of the Scripture 1 The substance and soule of the scripture is the true meaning Page 59 2 The sense is not that which most hold but which is agreeable to the scripture ibid. nota 3 Papists make the Church the interpreter of scriptures that is first Bishops then Councels in their defect the Pope for he so challengeth it that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be the meaning of it Page 60 4 It is very absurd to hang the sense of the scriptures vpon one mans iudgement especially vpon the Pope so vnlearned and absurd an interpreter as many of them haue bin Page 60. 61 5 They teach the sense of the scripture may be changed with the times and occasions Page 61 6 Foure senses of euery scripture made by Papists Page 61. 62 7 The manner of interpreting the scriptures amongst Protestants which is auncient and safe Page 62 8 Protestants do not exclude Christ from the supper as Papists falsely accuse them yet they include him not in it as Papists do his naturall body they place in heauen but the virtue communion and benefit of this body they exclude not but mainteâ—â— that whole Christ is present to each mans faith Page 63 9 Christ is as present in Baptisme and was to the Fathers as in the Supper ibid. nota 10 The popish and false interpretation of these words This is my body this my bloud confuted by the same rule whereby Campian would confirme them that is by conference of them with the words adioyning Page 64. 65 11 That the words of the sacrament bee figuratiue is proued by the induction of other sacraments Page 65. 66 12 There is no miracle in the sacrament Page 67 13 Papists affirme that the wicked eate the body of Christ as well as the beleeuer Page 67 14 All antiquity is on the Protestants side for the interpretation of the words of the sacrament against the Papists and so their transubstantiation is a new inuention Page 67 15 The testimonies of Tertullian and Augustine alleadged and of Theodoret. Page 68. 69 16 The testimonie of Macarius a Monke Page 70 17 Campian dealeth vnequally pressing the Protestants to leaue the iudgement of the scripture and stand to the iudgement of the Pope being an enemy to them Page 71 The summe of the third answere touching the nature of the Church 1 The true notes of the Church whose present being maketh a true Church whose absence marreth and ouerthroweth it are the word the whole and pure sacraments Page 77. 78 2 The Church is more hid and vnknowne then the Scripture Page 78. nota 3 The Church is euer and must be vpon the earth and oftentimes inuisible compared therefore of Augustine to the Moone Page 78 4 In the daies of Ahab and of Christ it was inuisible or scarce visible Page 80 5 Succession not necessary to the being of the Church for it hath bin and yet no Church as in the Church of the Iews Page 81 6 The small number of the faithfull as Christs 〈◊〉 Pag. 82 7 What is a visible Church Page 82. 83 8 Though perticular Churches are visible it followeth not that the Catholike Church is euer visible ibid. 9 The antiquitie of our faith and doctrine is from the Apostles time Page 83. 84 10 Superstitious growing vpon the Church Page 84 11 The growing of the Popes authority to the height it is now at 84. nota 12 The bringing of Images into the Church Page 84. nota 13 The Grecians not subiect to the Romish Church ibid. 14 The vow of virginitie not vnderstood by faith in S. Paul and what is meant by it Page 86. nota 15 To what Church the Protestants will subscribe Page 87 16 In the visible Church are both good and hypocrites in the inuisible only godly and faithfull men Page 88 17 The distinction of visible and inuisible make not two Churches but one and how they differ and what the Catholike Church is nota The summe of the fourth Answere touching generall Councels 1 Protestants with consent of antiquitie prefer the Scripture before Councels Page 94. nota 2 Nazianzenes hard censure of Councels Page 95 3 The first Councell hold by the Apostles and Church by necessarie consequent condemneth the multitude of popish ceâ—â—â—â—nies Page 96 4 Augustine condemneth the multitude of ceremonies in his time how would he complaine if he saw the multitude of popish ceremonies Page 96 5 Gregories speech expounded touching the foure generall Councels Page 97 6 The iudgement of the Church of England touching the foure generall Councels Page 98 7 The Popes may not haue Peters honour seeing they haue not his vertues and pietâ—â— 99 8 The Canon of the Councell of Nice vtterly ouerthrowed the supremacie of the Pope giuing him no authoritie ouer other churches no more then others ouer his Page 100. 101 9 The Councell of Calcedon doth not confirme the Popes supremacie but ouerthrowes it The Councell gaue to the church of Râ—â—â— greater prerogatiues because it was the chiefe seate of the Empire and not for any law of God and made the Bishop of Constantinople equall with the Bishop of Rome Page 101. 102 10 The Councell of Constantinople gaue vnto the sea of Rome the honour of precedence and place not of authority Page 103 11 The Councell of Ephesus ascribeth no more to the Bishop of Rome then to other Bishops ibid. 12 The Councell of Nice doth not establish the vnbloudie sacrifice of the altar for in the canon named there is no mention of sacrifice or altar Page 104 13 The Fathers haue called the Lords Supper an vnbloudie sacrifice because it is without bloud and not because no bloud is then shed Page 105 14 Saincts departed know neither vs nor the things we do or slâ—â—â—d in need of no reason then we should pray vnto them though the custome be auncient it hath no warrant Page 106 15 Saincts departed know our generall conditions as we theirs not our perticular state nota 16 S. Paul prayed not to the Romanes and Corinthians as Papists do to Saincts but required of them a christian dutie nota 17 The Councell of Calcedon admiâ—teth ministring Widowes who are but 40. yeares of age forbidding them marriage when as S. Paul would haue them 60. before they be admitted Page 107 18 Duraeus confesseth that in the first age they did not prefer continone is before marriage nota 19 They who haue vowed single life and cannot performe it haue done euill in vowing but not in marrying and for to vow things not in our power is to mock God Page 108 20 Chastitie and single life is not in mans power nota 21 Cyprian alloweth Virgins who haue vowed virginitie if they cannot liue honestly to marry Page 109 22 Campian maketh the Councell of Trent and other Councels equall with the foure Euangelists Page 110 23 Priuate men alleadging the scripture rather to be beleeued then the
be graunted you yet it followeth not that they brought in a new Gospell because they differed from that sense for the sense is not to be sought for among the multitude but we must looke to the Scriptures and to God speaking in them as the men of Berea did not take the sense of the most but searched the Scriptures whether Paul taught things agreeing vnto it The Gospell is not in the words of the Scripture but in the sense They then haue the best end of the staffe and are the best patrons of Religion and truth who find out and keepe the true and natural meaning of the Scripture For the letter or word is plaine all controuersies depend vpon the meaning of the Word The state of the question is then thus whether of vs twaine haue attained the true and naturall meaning of the Scripture whether you Iesuits falsely called Catholikes or we who oppose your opinion and iudgment First therefore in generall and in few words we will see what is your opinion and iudgement then we will answere to your cauils Now it is most cleere that you make both the Scripture it selfe and the interpretation of it to depend vpon the authority of the b DVR Js it some haynous offence to require the iudgement of the Church in interpreting the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 142. We contemne not the iudgement of the Church but highly esteeme it as profitable to the well interpreting of the Scriptures But we contemne the iudgment of your Church which hath not any thing which a true Church should haue DVR Whither then should we goe to finde the sense WHIT. Euen whether Christ biddeth vs go search the Scriptures Iohn 5.39 And this vse they haue saith S. Paul 2. Tim. 3.15.16 Church And the Church you call not the whole multitude of Christians and faithfull men but you restraine both the name and nature of the Church vnto your c DVR You reprooue vs that vvee giue the interpretation of the Scriptures to Bishops they verily ought to deliver the true sense they haue receiued from their predecessors to the people WHIT. pag. 144. S. Paul alloweth all Ministers of the Gospell this power to interpret the Scriptures 1. Cor. 14.29.30 who ought aswell to deliuer the true sense as Bishops Besides you must know that the knowledge of tâ—â— Scriptures and the gifts of the spirit are not hereditarie or to be deliuered from hand to hand Bishops But your Bishops may differ touching the sense of the Scriptures so shall we be vncerteine and shall not resolue which of them to beleeue But you can helpe this generall d DVR Great and many controuersies haue been decided by Councels WHIT. pag. 145. It followeth not hereupon that the interpreting of the Scriptures is to be sought for of theÌ„ or if good Councels by the true interpretation of the Scriptures haue taken away some errors and heresies that thereâ—ore all interpretation is theirs or that we must looke for the same from impâ—ous and vnlearned Councels Councels must decide and determine all questions and controuersies Shall we then rest in them no more then in the other for the e DVR And why not seeing no Councell is of any authoritie which was not confirmed by the Pope WHIT. pag. 146. This is false for the sixt African Councell and the Calcedon Councell haue their authority without him And Emperors Patriaâ—kes and Bishops haue confinued Councels And the Councell of Constantinople by letters desired the confirmation of the decrees from Theodosius the Emperor DVR .. God set ouer the Iewes one High Priest Deut. 17.11 Then would Christ neuer neglect his Spouse but leaue her a chiefe iudge vpon the earth WHIT. pag. 151. Yet that iudge was to determine according to the Law Deut. 17.11 But the Pope maketh interpretations not out of the word written but out of his owne braine Againe it followeth not if ouer one little nation God set one chiefe iudge Christ must set but one ouer the whole world Besides the Iewish iudge was a type of Christ Lastly it followeth not that Chriâ—â— hath left his Church no iudge iâ— he haue not leâ—t it one only for euery Church haâ—h her Pastor to teach her and to dâ—â—ermine questions in her Pope must be iudge ouer the Councels So in the conclusion the whole interpretation of holy Scriptures is transferred to the Pope and must be fetched out of his brest yea and as a proper right he so challengeth the power of interpreting of the Scripture that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be accounted the sense and meaning of them This is your constant and perpetuall propertie and disposition in interpreting the Scriptures full of dotage error and falshood void of aduise knowledge and wisdome For what an absurd and horrible thing is it that the sense and meaning of the holy Scripture should depend vpon one mans iudgement and voice specially being such a one as commonly the Bishops of Rome haue been vnlearned wicked hereticall And hence haue proceeded all those goodly interpretations Take Eate that is you Priests say priuate Masses Dist. 31. Tenere Drinke yee all of this that is only the Priests must drinke Be yee holy for I am holy f DVR Which oâ— the Popes or what Catholike â—riter euer collected this out of that place WHIT. pag. 159. Pope Syricius did first of all so collect and after him Pope Innocent as you may reade in Graâ—â—an Dist. 31. cap. Tenâ—re Dist. 82. cap. propâ—suisti cap. plurimos therfore it is vnlawful for the Minister of the Word to marry a wife Giue yee not holy things to dogges therefore the people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures What should I number vp innumerable moe of your interpretations by which you doe nothing but peruert and wrest the Scriptures Is this indeed Campian the right interpreting of Scripture or must all Christians receiue this exposition as the oracle of God But what should I speake of the constant tenour you keepe in the interpretation of Scripture for you make the sense of Scriptures so changeable so diuerse and inconstant like to a nose of waxe and a leaden rule Pighius that at all assaies it may euer serue your turne So writeth g DVR Cusanus hath written very rightly for there are diuers senses of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 162. What rule then can be more vncerteine then the Scriptures or what can be spoken more vilely of the Scripture how then is the Scripture one rule Phil. 3.16 how is iâ— firme induring for euer 1. Pet. 1.25 how no deceitfull ballance Augusâ— dâ— Baptis cont Don. lib. 2. cap. 6. Nicholas Cusanus a Cardinall of Rome Nicol. Cusan Epist. 2. Epist. 7. to the Bohemians This vnderstand that the Scriptures are fitted to the time and diuersely to be vnderstood so that at one time they may be expounded according to the common customable course but change that and the sense is
Dioscorus as for diuer other faults so especially for excommunstating the Pope vvas depriued of Episcopall authority Act. 3. Besides they writ thus to Pope Leo. He exteÌ„deth his madnes against him vnto whom the custody of the vineyard is committed by our Sauiour and against thee who labourest to vnite the body of the Church Againe they desire that their decrees should be confirmed of the same Pope And Paschasinus saith that the Pope of Rome vvhichus head of all the Churches depriued him because as Lucentius addeth hee presumed to call a Councell vvithout the authority of the Apostolike Sea WHIT. pag. 302. This councell is so far from confirming the Popes supremacy that it plainly ouerthroweth it for though Pope Leo with all earnestnes opposed against the honor and dignity of the Bishop of Constantinople yet he obteinâ—â— of the Councell that degree of honor which he desired which he could not haue done if the Councell had acknovvledged the Popes supremacy Concerning Dioscorus he was depriued for many notable crimes as murther blasphemy against the Trinity burglary adultery and excommunicating the Pope and you make this last a speciall cause of his depriuation as though it were a more heinous crime then murther adultery and blasphemy Therein aduauncing your Pope as your manner is aboue the blessed Trinity The committing of the vineyard to Peter maketh nothing for your Pope who is not Peter nor any thing like him Proue that it was committed to the Pope and you say something The confirmation of the decrees was not a thing proper to the Pope but also appertained to the other Patriarckes and Metropolitanes yea to the Emperors Paschasinus and Lucentius accusing Dioscorus say not a word of the Popes supremacy although they were the Popes Legates And whereas he calleth Rome the head of all the Churches his meaning was that it was the first greatest and most famous Church Chalcedon that thereby you may proue that the chiefe honour is to be ascribed vnto the Bishop of the chiefe sea that is vnto Peter I graunt Campian that this sea in time past was had in the chiefe place of honour and I know very well that the chiefe dignitie was attributed to the Bishop of this sea the reason whereof you may easilie perceiue out of the selfe same Councell For this was not done by any commaundement of Christ that the Church of Rome should excell in dignitie all other Churches of the world but the Fathers testifie that the cause why that Citie was inuested with greater priuiledge than others was this because it was the chiefe seate of the Empire You may finde the words themselues in the same acte which you cite Act. 16. But if as you say the Church of Rome ought to haue the preheminence aboue all other Churches in the world in diuine authoritie what then ment the Chalcedonian Fathers to affirme that there were some prerogatiues graunted vnto that Church for this cause alone in that Rome was the head of the Empire and therefore they thought that the Bishop of that Citie which was the Empresse of the world was worthie of some more honour than others And this honour to speake of was onely this that the Bishop of Rome should haue the preheminence of place in Councels the prioritie of speech in deliuering his opinion and the precedence in rancke and place And thus neither doe we our selues now much enuie this honour to the Romane Bishop but that if so it please him he may enioy it so that he doe not because he hath the chiefe place imperiouslie tyranize ouer his brethren as he hath done for many ages and perswadeth himselfe that he may doe it lawfully But seeing it pleaseth you to obiect vnto vs the CouÌ„cel of Chalcedon that you may challenge the chiefe honor as due to your Bishop of the chiefe Sea before I proceed further I would gladly you should resolue me in this question why the f DVR This was not the iudgement of the whole CouÌ„cell but of certeine men Neither did the Constantinopolitanes require that their Sea should be of equall authority with the Sea of Rome but that it should haue the like soueraignty in Ecclesiasticall matters and obtainâ— the next place to it WHIT. pag. 306. This was the iudgment of the whole Councell except the Popes owne Legates Paschasinus Bonefacius and Lucentius who in vaine opposed for the decree runneth thus These things we all say these things please vs all And contrary to your assertion these Fathers decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should be matched in equall priuiledge with the Bishop of Rome which equality of priuiledges cannot stand with the vnequality of authority Neither did prioritie of place proue that the Bishop of Rome had any priority of authoritie sâ—â—ing this was only for orders sake otherwise by the same reason the Bishop of ConstaÌ„tinople should haue had the like authority ouer the Bishop of Alexandriâ— because he sate aboue him Fathers of this Councell made the Sea of Constantinople equall to the Sea of Rome for so they decree and diffinitiuely determine that seeing great priuiledges were graunted to the Church of Rome in respect of the Empire of the citie they thought it a matter of great equity that the new Rome that was now graced with the Empire and Senate should enioy the same priuiledges which old Rome had done And although the Bishop of Rome did most earnestly contend and labour that the Bishop of Constantinople might not be made his equall yet he could not by his best meanes effect his desire but that the decree of the Councell preuailed which had equalised the Bishop of Constantinople with the Bishop of Rome And therefore me thinkes you haue but ill defended the honor and dignity of your Bishop when you alleadge the decree of that Councell Moreouer the Councell of g DVR The filth Canon of the Councell of Constantinople ascribed greater honor to the Romane Sea then to any other WHIT. pag. 311. This honor was only of precedence and place and not of authority as plainly appeareth in the words of the Councell it selfâ— Chap. â—8 and in that the like prerogatiue was graunted in the next place to the Bishop of Constantinople and therefore by the like reason he might â—rrogâ—â—â— authority ouer the whole Church Constantinople which you also cite Canon 5. decreed no other thing for the Romane Sea then that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue the prerogatiue of honor next to the Bishop of Rome And this we also confesse that in times past the Prouinces were so distributed that Rome had the chiefe Constantinople the next and so euery one in their owne order But what maketh that to this cause which we haue now in hand For this is not the honor which the Bishop of Rome challengeth vnto himselfe this not the height of power and maiestie which he so often arrogateth Ephes Conc. in Epist ad Nestor The Councell also of h DVR
be quenched But you are alwaies harping vpon this string that they are bound by the lawes of a vowe Cyprian lib. 1. Epist. 1. 1. Pet. 1. therefore let Cyprian make you answere Å¿ DVR The words of Cyprian are not to be vnderstood of Virgins already consecrated vnto God but he willeth those who will not perseuere in virginitie that they doe not consecrate themselues to Christ but rather marry WHIT. pag. 343. Cyprian speaketh plainly of such Virgins as vvere alreadie consecrated for hee reprehendeth such as hauing consecrated themselues to Christ did liue incontinently and vvilleth them if they vvill not perseuere in chastitie to marrie lib. 1. Epistol 11. And Erasmus thought thus as appeareth by a marginall note of his Here marriages are permitted to holy Virgins If they haue by their vowe consecrated themselues to Christ 1. Pet. 1. let them perseuere honestly and chastely without any feined deuises But if they will not or cannot perseâ—ere their best course is to marrie And would Cyprian thinke you Campian haue giuen this counsell to Virgins if he had iudged such marriages wicked or no better than publike incest as you in your intemperate stile tearme it And indeed how much more honest course were it for you Monkes and Friers to auoid your too too publike and notoriously wicked fornication by imbracing chaste marriage for so it might come to passe Plus secund as your olde Pope Pius was wont to say That many of you might be saued in marriage which are now damned in single life But he that is filthie let him goe forward in his filthines vnto his olde age and let him that is holy â—lie vncleanenesse and prefer sanctimonie of life before vice and wickednes And these are the maine matters which you haue deliuered vnto vs in that your graue contestation and haue laboured to perswade by interposing the authoritie of Councels But you might haue considered Campian that the counterfeit names of Councels ought to be of farre lesse authoritie with vs then the most vndoubted truth of Gods word And whereas you further affirme that The Synods of other times and namely that of Trent are of equall authoritie and credit with those first Councels I must tell you I beleeue you not although you promise and take vpon you to proue it when need requires You promise indeed much but performe nothing But here I intreate the godly Reader and beseech all Christians that they would attentiuely marke what Campian here auoucheth to wit that all Synodes and namely that of Trent are equall to the foure generall Councels which foure Councels are by t DVR Gregorie doth not match the foure Councels in equall authoritie vvith the foure Gospels but onely saith that as hee doth vndoubtedly and certainely beleeue the scriptures so also the foure Councels WHIT. pag. 348. Gregorie saith that he doth imbrace and reuerence the foure Councels as the foure bookes of the Gospell Epist libr. 1. Epist. 24. And what is this but to make them equall For if there bee any inequalitie wo cannot imbrace and reuerence them both alike Gregory whom Campian citeth marched in equall authoritie with the foure Gospels from whence it necessarily followeth that all Councels of other times are of the same authoritie and credit with the foure Euangelists I will not vrge this poynt further neither will I now shake you vp as you vsually doe Master Luther but rather leaue you to bee beaten with the rod of mens silent iudgements After this you being shadowed with this impenitrable shield of Councels enter the lists and obserue whether your aduersarie conuaieth himselfe for so great a warrier you are such a skilfull Champion and so fierce in fight that assoone as you but shew your selfe forthwith all your enemies betake them to their heeles and eftsoones you declare how you meane to behaue your selfe in this fight and what a great slaughter you intend to make But take heede Campian least that may worthilie be applied to you which is spoken in the Prouerbes He that is rashly confident before the conflict is commonly a coward in the combate You speake much of the dignitie of Councels which we also acknowledge to be very great but neuerthelesse the holy Ghost is not bound to multitudes of men to stately preparations nor to sumptuous pompe And we may often obserue that in Councels there is much contending amongst contrarie factions and sometimes the greater part preuaileth against the better You say that Luther durst presume to affirme that hee preferred the iudgement and suffrages of two good and learned men before the Councels And in truth why might he not preferre them and who could iustly finde fault with that speech Seeing Gerson the Moderator of the Councell of Constance doubted not to preferre the iudgement of one man before the whole Councell u DVR Gerson did neuer preferre the iudgement of one man before a vvhole Councell WHIT. pag. 349. It is vntrue for he thus writeth We ought rather to bâ—leeue in a point of â—octrine a simple man not authorised but yet excellently learned in the scriptures theÌ„ the Pope Againe a man thus learned ought to oppose himselfe against a generall Councell if he perceiue that the greater part incline to that which is contrary to the Gospel either through malice or ignorance Gers de exam doctr 1. par Considerat 5. We are saith he to giue more credit vnto a man learned in the holy Scriptures alleaging catholike authority then to a generall Councell Tit. de elect can signifiâ—â—sti which also Paâ—ormitan hath confirmed writing in this manner We ought saith he rather to beleeue a simple lay man alleaging the Scripture than the whole Councell together You say further That Kemnisius dared to peise the Councell of Trent in the ballance of his owne giddie braine But Kemnisius did not examine that Councell by his owne square but by the rule of Gods holy word And what gained he say you and answering your selfe in your owne question you say nothing but infamie If Kemnisius haue not your good word it is no great wonder for he hath atchieued that by his learning vertue and industrie that he may seeme worthie of enuie and hatred from such as you are But if true and deserued praise be due to good deeds he hath obtained an honourable reward euen the euerlasting glorie of a good name Yea say you if he take not heede he shall be buried with Arrius But it behooued you Campian to trouble your head rather about your owne then Kemnisius his funerals and take you heede least for your euill deedes there be a sepulchre prouided for you amongst the damned Now here againe you begin more highly to extoll the Councell of Trent as though we knew not the notable carriage and behauiour of that famous and goodly Synode But for my part I easilie allow you to be so farre in loue with it neither in truth will I become your riuall
you Ireneus Victor Polycarp Cornelius Cyprian Sixtus Laurentius are ours But I affirme that all these do belong vnto vs let vs then consider how you will perswade vs they are yours Telesphorus enioyned a more strict obseruation of Lent fast appointed by the Apostles e DVR But J proue it by these witnesses Augustine Hierome Basil Ambrose Epiphanius Clemenâ— WHIT. pag. 862. And I proue the contrary by the Fathers August Epist. â—6 writeth plainely that neither Christ not his Apostles ordained any certaine time for fastings And so not Lent Tertul. aduer Psychicos In times past ChristiaÌ„s indifferently fasted of their owne free will as euery mans time and occasions required and not by any coÌ„mand of new gouernmeÌ„t Doth not this ouerthrow the necessary obseruatioÌ„ of Lent Chryso in Mat. hom 47. freely confesseth that Christ did not command vs to imitate his fast But what is Lent but an imitation of it Further Montanus was the first who brought vp set solemne daies of fastings Euseb lib. 5. cap. 17. Finally Ireneus in Eusebius lib. 5. cap. 26. sheweth that in the Primitiue Church there was great variety about the keeping of this fast and that this difference began not in his time only but was long before Therefore it is false that Christ and his Apostles appointed the fast of Fortie daies I deny that the Apostles ordeined any such Lenâ—en fast or that Telesphorus commaunded a more precise obseruation thereof The Apostles were farre from ordeining and Telesphâ—rus from reuiuing so great superstition Clemens his Constitutions where this is reported are not sufficient authoritie But if this fast were prescribed by the Apostles I wonder how afterwards it was discontinued so as it should bee necessarie for Telesphorus to enioyn the keeping of it more precisely especially seeing such strife was in the Church about the celebration of Easter The epistle of Telesphorus wherein he commaunds the 7. weekes fast hath the same authority with the rest of your decretall epistles of your Pope which were not framed by the most holy Bishops themselues but coyned since by the most impudent Parasites of the church of Rome Jren. lib. 4. cap. 43. Ireneus say you declared the Apostolike faith from the succession and sea of Rome So he might well then for as Ireneus elsewhere saith They retained with the succession of Bishops the gratious succession of truth for succession is nothing worth without truth Your Chaire and Sea hath Bishoply succession it hath not the succession of truth Victor say you by his edict subdued Asia He endeuored it indeed Campian but failed of his purpose for being a man very passionate he would needs excommunicate all such Churches of Asia as refused to keepe Easter according to the Romane custome When he began thus insolently to abuse his authority f DVR Neither Ireneus nor any other denied to Pope Victor this power to excommunicate the Churches of Asia WHIT. pag. 863. But Eusebius wriâ—eth lib. 5. cap. 25. that both Ireneus and many other Catholike Bishops sharpely reproued him for assuming that power Ireneus tamed and restrained him As for the controuersie about Easter Victor was so farre from composing and ending it that it coÌ„tinued vnto the g DVR By the same reason you may say the CouÌ„cels decree preuailed nothing to endiâ—â—â— controuersie WHIT. pag. 864. The reason is good proueth that wheÌ„ he could preuaile neither by examples reasons nor threatnings that those Churches did not accouÌ„t Pope Victor for the head of the Church And though after that Councell of Nice some Churches obserued the Passeouer after another manner yet the most Churches followed the iudgement and authoritie of the Councell So the Councell preuailed more then the Pope could doe Councell cell of Nice You may see how well Victor subduer all Asia Polycarpe in the question about Easter went to Rome Smyrna gathered his reliques Wonderfull reasons Polycarpe went to Rome to consult with Anycetus about Easter and Smyrna gathered his reliques ergo Polycarpe is yours Doth not the learned Vniuersities make you ashamed of this childish sophistrie h DVR Enuie maketh you forge an vntruth And whil for eunie you pine avvay aâ— the honor which is giuen of Christians to the reliques of Martyrs you imitate the Jewes and the Diuell WHIT. pag. 865. I haue spoken neither lesse nor more then Eusebius hath written who theÌ„ liued After we had gathered his banes being more precious then pearles and gold we buried them where it was thought sit And as for the reliques of Saiâ—ns I enuy them not the Saints themselues I euer honorablie remember But that the reliques of Saints were worshipped with religiâ—us honor as they are in your Church you shall neuer be able to proue His bones indeed were gathered by the Church of Smyrna not to worship them but to bury them as Eusebius in the same place recordeth But why are Cornelius and Cyprian yours forsooth because Cornelius abolished the i African error and Cyprian had him in great reuerence Oh wonderfull Iesuiticall Logick l DVR His supreame authoritia appeareth in this because hee decreed that controuersie being not the Bishop of Africke but of Rome WHIT. pag. 866. Saint Paul confuted many errors of the Churches of Galatia Coâ—inth Rome and diuers others yet was hee neuer supreame Bishop So did Augustine But what error did he suppresse was it touching Baptisme by heretikes that he neuer could doe but Cyprian and the Bishops of Africke constantly held it which proued they neuer acknowledged that he had any such authoritie who can chuse but be much moued with such strong reasons But let vs heare another Sixtus is ours and why so Seauen of the Clergie ministred vnto him while hee serued at the altar Seauen Deacons helped Sixtus to celebrate the Lords supper ergo Sixtus is yours If this reason be of force let him be yours hardly I will not striue with you about him but herein is nothing why he may not as well be k DVR Pope Sixtus a Priest offred vp the body and blood of Christ Deacons assisting of him could not bee a Caluinist but on our side WHIT. pag. 868. As if we had no Deacons who helpe the Minister when he celebrateth the Lords Supper ours as yours Doth it become you Campian thus to trifle thus to abuse our patience What followeth Laurence is yours how so I pray you Our aduersaries haue cast him out of their Calouder We remember him with reuerence as a saint and a friend of Christ though we worship him not as God But Prudentine prayed vnto him a thousand yeares agoe Giue leaue Campian to a Poet to vse poeticall auersions from whence yet no strong reason can be drawne But if Prudentius were something too superstitious what is that to vs Now you recken vp virgins Câ—cilia Agatha and others but what haue they done why they should not be ours When the Tyrants examined them of their faith they
but because he was forced to follow a fellow that rode a wilde goose chase The benefit of which epitomie may be this If you reade the summe of euery answere before you reade each particular answer it will well prepare you to conceiue of the answere it selfe if after which I could wish also you would doe then it will present to you the whole as it were in a mappe When you haue read both and the whole booke if at any time you remember some thing you would see more particularly and can but tell or make some nie coniecture in what answere it is laid downe with reading of one page you may finde in what 〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉 be found Finally let it incourage you the â—â—ther to reade this Treatise because you shall finde in it whatsoeuer is by our late Papists in their Pâ—â—phlets and Treatises which they haue audaciously sent abroad in these few last yeeres when the lawes haue been laid asleepe and the iust seueritie of them greatly qualified I say whatsoeuer is in them either obiected against our Church and doctrine or spoken in their owne defence is here to be found and a solid answere giuen vnto them if any thing would giue them satisfaction If you bee but well exercised in this one booke out of it you may gather some smooth stones as out of a brooke by which though you should not be enabled to hold any long warre with a cunning Papist yet you may smite him in the forehead and fell him groueling to the earth 1. Sam. 17. as Dauid did the vncircumcised Philistine The Apostle exhorts that we earnestly contend for the maintenance of the faith Jude vers 3. which was once giuen vnto the Saints A naked and vnarmed man may well contend but shall neuer be able to maintaine any thing committed to him but it will soone be taken from him so may I say for the truth it is not words but weapons and weight of diuine reason that must defend it therefore must euery Christian souldier that thinkes to haue the crowne take to him such armour as Gods Armourie will affoord him Now those weapons if so be you cannot fetch so readily in the word of truth it selfe because of your infirmitie they are here brought to your hand and you withall are led by the hand to the particular places where they are in the word it selfe Now the Lord of hosts strengthen you in the truth and arme you with his grace that you may be able to stand against all the enemies of your saluation 2. Tim. 4.7.8 and that you may fight a good fight and finish your course and keepe the faith that you may obtaine the crowne of righteousnes which the Lord the righteous Iudge will giue at the last day vnto all those that loue his appearing Yours euer in the Lord Richard Stock The summe of the answere to the first Reason which is holy Scripture 1 PApiste account themselues disarmed if they must fight onely with the scriptures Page 24. nota 2 Of the number of the Canonicall scriptures that Luther and Caluine and their followers haue put out none which antiquitie and the purest Churches haue receiued Page 26 3 Campian was an Apostata not Luther Page 26 4 Luther onely thought not basely of the Epistle of S. Iames but antiquitie also Page 27 5 All Protestants highly reuerence this Epistle of S. Iames. Page 28. 30 6 Luther neuer writ so contempteously of the Epistle of Saint Iames as Campian affirmes Page 29 7 S. Paul and the Fathers haue taught iustification by faith alone Page 30 8 The place of S. Iames expounded and prooued not to be contrary to the doctrine of iustification by faith onely Page 31 9 Not Protestants of late but the Fathers of old haue put out of the Canon Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of Machabees and diuers other bookes Page 32. 33 10 The Papists cannot defend the Articles of their religion by the Canonicall scriptures but are forced to flye to the Apochrypha Page 34 11 Duraeus contrary to the Councell of Trent denieth traditions to be of equall authority with the scripture Page 34 12 Protestants haue denied no one booke or word of any booke of Canonicall scriptures Page 35 13 Angels do defend the elect but their hirarchy and degrees are without warrant of the word and their worship flat against the word Page 35. 36 14 Man hath no frâ—â—will by nature Page 37 15 The bookes of the Machabees are reiected by diuers Fathers and the Laodicene Councell ibid. 16 Neither prayers to the dead nor for the dead are lawfull Page 38 17 Seâ—â—en bookes of the Apochrypha were put out of the Canon by Hierome a thousand yeares before Caluine was borne Page 39 18 The 3. and 4. bookes of Esdra sometime were highly accounted by the church of Rome Page 39 19 Protestants haue not cut out of the Canon sixe epistles of the new Testament but honour them much neither haue the Lutherans Page 40 20 Augustine and Hierome in their difference for the number of the Canonicall bookes reconciled Page 41. 42 21 Meliâ—o Bishop of Sardis though he put the booke of Wisdome in the Canon yet he excludeth all the rest Page 43 22 The Laodicene Councell forbiddeth the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and alloweth only the reading of thâ—se which we put in the Canon of the old and new Testament 43.44 The Councell of Carthage allowed them only for manners nota for three hundred yeares these bookes were not in the Canon so confesseth Duraeus nota Page 43 23 The Councell of Carthage denied the Pope to be vniuersall Bishop Page 43 24 The Papists crueltie farre surpasseth the Protestants iust seueritie Page 45 25 The scriptures haue in themselues many proofes that they are the word of God but the certaine infallible and sauing assurance is from the spirit of God Page 46. 47 26 Campian scorneth the iudgement of the spirit in respect of the iudgement of the Church as if they were contrary Page 46. 48 27 The Church can make no writing Canonicall neither doth the authority of it depend on the Church It hath in it selfe his owne authority Page 48 28 Without the spirit a man may haue some knowledge of the scripture but no faith The testiments of the spirit as not 〈◊〉 confute others but confirms our selues Page 45. nota 29 The Lutherans did not onely surde somewhat lacking in the Apocalyps but ouen antiquitie receiued it not you reâ—ected it Page 50 30 Luther preferreth the Gospell of S. Iohn and Paules Epistles before the other Gospels and why Page 50. 51 31 What a Gospell is and who especially is an Euangelist Page 51 32 Campian slandereth Luther as touching S. Lukes Gospell Page 52 33 Beza hath no more offended in charging S. Luke with a solecisme then Hierome did in charging S. Paul Page 53 34 The words of institution in the Supper of the Lord a little examined
true faith lay hold on the Gospell These though they may bee seene as long as they liue amongst men seeing they are men as others bee yet because neither their faith nor Gods loue which maketh them members of the Church is visible we affirme that this Church consisting of holy and faithfull men is altogether inuisible Christ is the head of this Church to this only the elect caâ— ioyne themselues wee then acknowledge another Church besides that which coÌ„teineth only Saints for so should there be no visible Church at all but what company of men soeuer vpon the earth doth professe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets we professe that to be the true Church of Christ though many wicked men be found in it Neither are we the first who did inuent and deuise these things as you say of vs but are ready to proue theÌ„ both by the holy scripture and by authority of Antiquity Comfort then your selfe Campian as much as you can with the wits of our Vniuersity men and promise to your selfe great things from vs but see you bring more dexterity of wit or else without doubt you can neuer deceiue vs with this shallow conceit If you should propound these foolish and childish things in the populous assemblies of our Vniuersity men I perswade my selfe they would not only teare to pieces these your childish shifts but do as much by you too for abusing so shamefully their learned conceites EDMVND CAMPIAN The fourth Reason which is generall Councels AGreat controuersie for the keeping of the ceremonies of the old law which in the Primitiue Church much moued the minds of faithfull people was by a Councell gathered together of the Apostles and some elders decided Children then beleeued their Parents and sheepe their Sheepheards charging them in this sort a Act. 15 It hath pleased the holy Ghost and vs after this there were holden foure generall Councels of auncient Fathers for the rooting out of heresie which budded vp aboundantly in euery age which were of such authoritie aboue b Greg. li. 1. epist. 24. 1000. yeeres agoe that * Gregorie made the foure Councels equall to the Euangelists great honour was attributed vnto them as though it had been vnto the foure Gospels I will seeke no further euen here in our owne Countrey by an c Anno 1. Elizab. acte of Parliament the selfe same Councels doe retaine still their former force and pure authoritie which said acte I will heere alleadge And call thee thy selfe O England my most louing Countrey to witnesse If thou reuerence as thou pretendest those Councels Nic. Can. 6. Chal. act 4. 16. Constan c. 5. Eph. conc in epist. ad Nestorium Nic. con 14 Chal. act 11 Nic. conc apud Soc. lib. 1 cap. 8. Vide Chalc. can 4.15.23 then wilt thou yeeld vp the supremacie to the Bishop of the chiefe sea that is to Saint Peter Then wilt thou acknowledge vpon the altar the vnbloodie sacrifice of the bodie and blood of Christ. Then wilt thou pray the blessed Martyrs and all the Saints in Heauen to make intercession to Christ for thee Then wilt thou restraine these leacherous Apostataes from their filthie carnall copulation and open incest Then wilt thou build vp many things which now thou pullest downe and wish many things vndone which now thou doest Moreouer I promise and vndertake as occasion and time shall serue to proue that the * Campian makes all Synods equall with the Gospell Councels holden at other times and namely the Councell of Trent haue been of equall authoritie and credit with the foure first Councels Wherefore then should I not come to this place of triall securely and couragiously to marke into what corner my enemie will creepe seeing I am * This is false ancient Councels doe not confirme the Romish faith ayded with the valiant and piked garrison of all the Councels For I will alleadge both most manifest matter which he shall not be able to wrest aside and also most substantially prooued which he dare not contemptuously reiect He will perhaps goe about to trifle out the time with multiplying of many words but if you be the men that I haue alwaies taken you for you will take so good heed vnto him that he shall neither rob you of your eares nor eyes If there shall be any at all so mad as to oppose himselfe against the sages of all Christendome and those such men as for holines of life learning and antiquitie are too great to be challenged I would willingly behold that brazen face the which when I shall shâ—w you I will leaue the rest to your imaginations In the meane while I will giue you this caueat that whosoeuer affirmeth that a generall Councell * The Councell of Trent was neither a full Councell nor lawfully held And so both the Emperor and the French King haue iudged Sleidan anno 1551. lib. 33. The assemblie of certaine men duly and orderly kept and finished is of no force or authoritie the same man seemeth to me to be one of no iudgement nor of any wit and not onely an asse in diuinitie but also voide of discretion in worldly policie If euer the spirit of God illuminated the Church surely then that time is most fit to send downe the holy Ghost when the religion perfection knowledge wisdome and honour of all Churches dispersed throughout all Christendome are assembled together into one Citie and vsing all meanes both diuine and humane whereby the truth may be searched out Matth 18. they call vpon the holy Ghost promised e Joh. 14. by God vnto them that by his assistance they may establish godly lawes for the safe and wise gouernement of the Church Now let there some pettie peart hereticall Doctor leape out let him looke vp stately let him scorne and mocke let him lay all shame aside let him saucily giue iudgement of his owne iudges what game what pastime shall he make we haue spied out such a one euen Martin f Lib. de capt Bab. Luther who saith that he more esteemeth of the voices of two honest and learned men ye may well imagine his owne and Philip Melancthons if they come together in Christs name then he did of all generall Councels O worthy companie We haue found out also another of the same crue to wit g Martini Kemnitij examen Conc. Tridentini Kemnitius who hath vndertaken to examine the Councell of Trent by his owne vnreasonable giddie braine what hath he gained an euill name so that he except he preuent it by recanting shall be buried for an heriticke with Arrius whereas the Councell of Trent the elder it waxeth by so much more it shall flourish daily and continually * The famous praises of the Councell of Trent O good Lord with what diuersitie of people out of all countries with what choice of Bishops throughout all Christendome with what excellencie of Kings and Common-weales with what
of euils were rather increased then taken away DVR Yea but he hath shened his contrary iudgment vvriting his Cledonius WHIT. Nothing lesse but only hee affirmeth that he vvould subscribe to the Apollinarian heretikes if they could proue that they vvere receiued of the vvest Councell vvhich hee knevv they could not Nazianzene Nazianz. Epist. 4â— ad Procop. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should so vniustly iudge and so iniuriously write of them For he saith that he had deliberated with himselfe and fully resolued to auoid Episcopall Conuocations because he had neuer seene a good issue of any Synode Which howsoeuer it hath bin true of many which by reason of the ambition and busie medling of some haue not taken away auncient controuersies but rather haue sowed the seed of new contentions yet many Councels haue been approued and commended by their most wished euent Whereas therefore you appeale to Councels we will follow you in many in their most weighty censures and decrees for in all neither do you your selues iudge it necessary But let vs now heare you discoursing concerning Councels A waighty question say you concerning lawfull cereâ—â—â—ies was cleared in a Councell of the Apostles and Fldâ—rs assembled together The children beleeued their Parents and the Sheepe their Shephâ—ard commaunding in this forme of speech It bath pleased the holy Ghost and vs. Where you make mention of a Councell most excellent and aboue all exceptions in which nothing was done rashly peruersely and factiously as sometimes in other Councels it hath been accustomed but al things diuinely and by the authority of the holy Ghost himself and therfore if we did not beleeue this Councell we were vnworthy of the name either of children or of sheep This Councel resolued that important question concerning ceremonies and freed the neckes of Christians from that most grieuous yoke of Mosaicall rites whereby the greater cause of griefe is offered vs by you who haue imposed vpon the Church contrarie to the expresse commandement of this Councell another yoke much more intolerable then that of Moses For this is cleare and manifest that the ceremonies brought into the Church by you and imposed vpon the consciences of men are twice as many as those which in time past Moses by Gods expresse commaundement inioyned vnto the people of Israell August ad Ianuar. And this is that of which c DVR Angustine vvhen he vvrit this did not after your manner carpe at Ecclesiasticall ceremonies but shevveth that be vvould not haue them instituted at euery mans pleasure For in his first Epistle to Ianuariuâ— he thus vvriteth If the vvhole Church vse any of these it iâ— insolent madnes to dispute vvhether such a thing is to be done or no WHIT. pag. 296. Augustine condemneth the multitude of ceremonies in his time and vvould haue vs rest contented vvith those few ceremonies vvhich are commended vnto vs in the Scriptures Ad Ianuar. Epist 118. cap. 1. Epist. 119.19 His vvords vvhich you alleage I vvillinglie embrace for vve vse and esteeme those ceremonies vvhich all Churches haue receiued as necessary for order and comelinesse But of this kind yours are not neither can you vvrest those speeches concerning the ceremonies of the Church to approue your Traditions seeing the Church of Rome long since ceased to be the Church of Christ Augustine long agone complained namely that by the multitudes of ceremonies the state of Christians was become worse then the state of the Iewes themselues which if Augustine spake of the ceremonies of his time how much more would he haue thus complained had he seene the great multitudes which were afterwards added to them But if the Apostles and Elders according to the meaning iudgment of the holy Ghost did determine that those ceremonies which the Lord himselfe had ordeined were to be abolished how intolerable is your boldnes who contrary to the decree of this spirit and Councell haue obtruded vpon Christians your innumerable traditions and needles ceremonies Did the Lord therfore abolish his owne ceremonies that he might establish yours did he abrogaâ—â— a few that he might bring in a multitude did he ease vs of lighter that he might impose heauier Whereby it appeareth that the diuine institution of this Councel which as it was before all other in time so aboue all other in excellency is most wickedly by you violated And is it to be thought possible that you who haue demeaned your selues so impiously towards these Parents and Pastors will be more respectiue towards others Nay there is not any Councell which you haue not long ago trodden vnder feete so that euery one of you are infoulded in a thousand excoÌ„munications And dare you Campian notwithstanding make mention of Councels which if they were in any force surely you should no more be tolerated in the Church then Publicans and Pagans There followeth this say you for the rooting out of heresie the foure general Councels of the auncient Fathers which were of such strength and authority that a thousand yeares since they were had in singular account euen as Gods word it selfe And we likewise doe freely confesse that the authority of those foure Councels was good and profitable Luthe de Concil Reade what learned Luther hath writ of those foure generall Councels and so also you may know our iudgement of them Notwithstanding there is no reason why we should assent vnto Gregorie Gregor lib. 1. Epist 24. who professeth that he doth imbrace and reuerence these foure Councels as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell For this were rather to violate the Gospell then to reuerence the Councels Although as I take it Gregories meaning was that what was decreed and concluded in these foure Councels out of Gods word against Arriuâ— Euâ—â—onius Macedonius Nostorius Eutyches and Dioscâ—ruâ— that he firmely embraced and would not suffer these decreet which are approued by the Euangelicall writings and in which this impious heresie is condemned to be reuoked and repealed no more then the Gospell it selfe neither can I imagine that it was Gregories purpose to affirme this of all these Councels that the Councell of Nice Constantinâ—ple Ephesus and Chalcedâ—n were fully equall vnto the holy Gospell in authority and dignity And so we our selues do not doubt that those things which these Fathers haue determined against those heretikes before named concerning the consubstantiall subsistence of the Father and the Sonne of the diuinity of the holy Ghost of the one person of Christ in two natures are as true as the Gospel it selfe not because these Councels so iudged and concluded but because in the Gospell the selfe same doctrine of faith is deliuered Further you say That also iâ—â—â—r owne country by our Parliaments the same Councels retaine their auncient right It is true indeed that in these and all other things which they propound if they be consonant to the holy Scriptures they doe still retaine their auncient right and dignity But lest you should
suppose that we did euer attribute thus much to these Councels that we iudge all that to be necessarily embraced whatsoeuer they haue decreed heare you now what our Church hath thought and ordained of these generall Councels Councels not only may erre but also sometimes haue erred In the Artic of Religion Artic. 21. and that in these things which belong to the rule of piety and therfore whatsoeuer by them is decreed as necessary to saluation hath no vertus nor authority vnlesse it may be shewed that it is taken ouâ— of the holy Scriptures Cite you now these words and then contest as you call it your sweet couÌ„try And in like maÌ„ner this your most deare countrie in which you were borne brought vp and graced doth contest intreat and beseech you by all those things which are vnto you most sweeâ—e and best esteemed that you desist any more in this bâ—dde cause to be troublesome vnto her that you will noâ— corrupt her children with an impious and strange religion that you will make more preciouâ— account of her dignity then of a forraine enemie and that you would at length returne thither from whence you haue straâ—ed And surely you would not contemne this speech of your country if you could euen for a litle space lay aside that preiudicate opinion which you haue sucked from Rome and brought with you hither into England But let vs heare what is this your contestation If say you you will reâ—erence these fourâ— Councels you will chiefely honâ—r the Bishop of the chiefâ— Sâ—â— that is Peter And so do we ascribe great honour vnto Peter and that worthily neither doe we contend with you about him but this affirme that those things which were proper vnto Peter cannot in any wise appertaine to your Pope who was neuer like either Peter or Paul And in truth what madnes is this so insolently to bragge of Peters great vertues when in the meane time you cannot proue that your Popes are indued with any such Do you suppose that any man that is in his right wits will thinke that Peters faith piety and all the rest of his vertues haue bin deriued to your Pope by a lineall descent from so many other Popes of whom a great number were not men but monsters This doubtlesse is a grosse dotage and fit to be taken away Quouis helleboro dignum with the mad mans purge and as one saith for those diseases reprehension is the best maâ—â—â—r of cure Should I entitle your Gregoriâ— the 13. who now gouerneth at Rome with the name of Peter doth he teach doth he feed Christs sheepe surely he cannot Doth he performe the duty of an Apostle or of a Bishop nothing lesse How therfore doth he demeane himselfe Sitting in the Vatican he prouoketh to warre moueth seditions armeth subiects against their Princes and filleth the whole world with vproâ—â—â—â— Did Peter thus behaue himselfe is this to be Peter can you deny that these things be true and shall I then yeeld vnto him the like honor that is due to Peter being so vnlike him in conditions But let vs further examine your words You will say you chiefely honor the Bishop of the chiefe Sea that is Peter but by what Councell doe you proue that necessary you alleage the Councell of Nice Can. 6. In which there is not so much as any mention of the Bishop of the chiefe Sea or of Peter neither in truth could any thing be produced of greater force against your Bishop then that decree of Nicene Synode for it matcheth all Metropolitanes and Patriarkes in an equall ranke of honor with the Bishop of Rome neither doth it attribute any more to him then vnto the Metropolitanes of Antioch Alexandria and the rest of the other Prouinces If you please you shall heare the words of the Councell Concil Nicen Can. 6. d DVR This cause by you alleadged maketh much for establishing the authority of the Romane Sea ouer all Churches For vvhen as the Fathers to proue the authority of the Bishop of Alexandria alleage the custome of the Church of Rome they shew hereby that Alexandria dependeth vpon Rome as the mother Church froÌ„ which she hath all her authority And that this was their mind appeareth by the words of Paschasmus the Popes Legat in the Councell of Chalcedon is also proued by the 39. Canon translated out of Arabicke into Latin The same Fathers likevvise assembled at Sardis approued the Supremacy of the Romane Sea WHIT. pag. 299. Nothing could be alleadged more direct against the Romish Supremacy then this Canon wherin their own proper limits of iurisdiction are assigned to euery Metropolitane For if the Pope should rule ouer the whole Church it had bin absur'd to limit euery one their owne borders wherein they should haue supreame authority according to the custome of the Church of Rome Neither doth this proue the supremacy of the Romish Church because they alleadge her custome and example as you ignorantly inferre seeing an example may be taken aswell from an equall or inferiour as from a superious It is no maruell if Paschasinus being the Popes Legate spake for the supremacy of the Romane Sea neither is his testimony to be regarded being a party Your Arabicke Canon is meerely Arabicke and not Nicene for of this Councel there were only 20. Canons written in Greek and not in the Arabian tongue The Canon of the Councell of Sardis helpeth you not seeing the Councell of Africke testifieth that iâ— was counterfeite Let the ancient custome be in force which was in Aegypt Libya and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria haue the chiefe dignity ouer all these things because also this was the custome of the Bishop of Rome and in like manner at Antioch and in the rest of the Prouinces let the Primacy and authority be receiued vnto the Churches You see Campian I suppose that no extraordinary prerogatiue hath been giuen to the Bishop of Rome and that his Prouince and Iurisdiction hath been circumscribed within determined bounds and borders Ruffin lib. Decimâ— And after this same manner doth Ruffinus if you do not credit vs interpret this Canon This Auncient custome is obserued at Alexandria and in the citie of Rome that the Bishop of Alexandria take the charges of Aegypt and the Bishop of Rome of the Churches of the cities neire adioyning And therefore let the Bishop of Rome take care of the bordering Churches of the neighbour cities with which the Nicene Synode hath enioyned him to rest satisfied and hereafter let him not trouble himselfe with the care of our Churches which appertaine not vnto his charge And so you see that if you had been well aduised you would neuer haue mentioned this Councell Act. 4.16 But you adioyne also vnto this the Councell of e DVR The Councell of Chalcedon standeth so directly for the supremacy of the Romane Sea that you ca with no shifts auoid it For therein
In the Councell of Ephesus diuers things are conteined vvhich approue the supremacy of the Sea of Rome c. WHIT. pag. 313. Campian cited the Epistle of the Councell to Nestorius wherein there is nothing which any way fauoureth the Popes supremacy the which you perceiuing do rake together other fragments concerning things which are not in controuersie and leaue out those points which make against you Ephesus is alleadged by you with as litle reason seeing it ascribeth nothing to the Bishop of Rome which did not also agree to other Bishops for if you take hold on this that Celestinus the Bishop of Rome was called the holy president most reuerend Father because he threatned to excommunicate Nestorius vnlesse he abiuted his heresie these things are coÌ„mon vnto the Bishop of Rome with others neither was he only intitled reuerend neither could hee alone pronounce iudgment against heretikes But if these would rather please you This is the faith of the Catholike and Orthodoxall Church vnto which all the Orthodoxall Bishops giue their assent you interpret these words amisse For in these words all the Orthodoxall Bishops are said not to assent to the Church but to the faith and that faith which the Fathers in those their letters embraced all Orthodoxall Bishops in euery place haue approued and we also do defend But what now followeth in your contestation Thou wilt say you acknowledge the vnbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ on the Altar And for this you cite the 14. Canon of the Nicence CouÌ„cell in which there is not so much as any mention made neither of vnbloody nor of i DVR The word Sacrifice is in the 14. Canon of the Nicene Councell And in the institutions of this Councell it is said that the Lambe of God is on the holy table which is offered of the Priests without blood c. WHIT pag. 316. It is not to be found in the words of the Councell in the Greeke but they are your words of the TraÌ„slator And coÌ„cerning the institutioÌ„s their authority was alwaies doubtfull in the Church neither do they make for you seeing we grant that in the right vse of the Sacrament we receiue the Lambe of God Sacramentally sacrifice nor of Altar But Deacons are there prohibited to arrogate so much vnto themselues that Bishops or Priests being present they should take vpon them to administer the Sacrament of the Lords supper because it was not lawfull for Deacons to deliuer the Lords body vnto Priests Now it is an vsuall thing to call bread the Lords body because it is a Sacrament of the Lords body neither in the meane time do I deny that the supper of the Lord is called by many of the k DVR The testimonies of the Fathers which you alleadge vvherein the Sacrament is called an vnbloody sacrifice make nothing for you seeing that vvith them is called vnbloody not that is vvithout blood but vvithout effusion of blood WHIT pag. 318. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vnbloody vsed by them signifieth such a thing as hath no blood in it If therefore this be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an vnbloody sacrifice as the Fathers call it then it is a Sacrifice without blood and not only without shedding of blood Againe if it be a sacrifice wherin no blood is spilt then is it not the sacrifice of Christ for in this blood was shed nor any true sacrifice for there is no sacrifice that hath blood without the shedding therof Heb. 9.22 auncient Fathers an vnbloody sacrifice both because wee retaine the mysteries of Christs death without any blood also offer vp praises thanksgiuing as it were for sacrifices vnto God and therefore Cyrill ioyneth in the supper these together vnbloody sacrifices and praises Cyril ad Regin Eusebius de Demon. lib. 1. And Eusebius writeth that we build an Altar to the Lord of vnbloody and reasonable sacrifices according to the new mysteries Now if you aske what manner of vnbloody sacrifice this is let Eusebius himself answer you in his own words He hath deliuered vnto vs a l DVR Eusebius doth not call it a sacrifice because it is a sole bare memoriall of the new Testament as you suppose but because vvee offer an vnbloody socrifice for a memoriall of a bloody sacrifice WHIT. pag. 323. Neither doe I affirme it for this is not a bare memoriall seeing the thing it selfe thereby signified is therin coÌ„teined in the right vse of it But withall I deny that this memoriall is the same sacrifice which Christ offered as you would haue it for how can a sacrifice be the self same with it of which it is a memorial If therfore this be an vnbloody sacrifice theÌ„ it is not the Sacrifice which Christ offered which was bloody the memorial of no other sacrifice See Eus de Demon. l. 1. memoriall of his death which we offer vnto him in place of a Sacrifice Again you propound the eleuenth act of the Councell of Chalcedon which conteineth nothing at all which appertaineth to this matter in hand neither that place of Socrates which you quote Lib. 1. cap. 8 You might haue dealt better and more simply if you would haue cited the words themselues and not only quoted vncertaine and confused notes in the margent but you feared lest you might haue bin too easily discouered vnles you had masked your selfe vnder the vizard of deceite But let vs examine the remainder of your contestation Thou wilt pray say you vnto the Martyrs and all the Saints that they would mediate for thee vnto Christ Thou wilt restraine effeminate Apostataes from wicked copulation Whether the Martyrs and heauenly Saints pray vnto Christ for vs or no m DVR You caÌ„not be ignorant of this that the Saints pray for vs if in the doctrine of faith you insist in the steps of the Fathers WHIT. p. 328. We are ignoraÌ„t therof because there is no such thing coÌ„teined in the Canonical Scriptures which should not haue bin omitted if the spirit of God had thought this knowledge necessary Neither is it conâ—â—ouersed what the Fathers thought of it not doth it follow because they haue care of vs they pray for vs neither if they do pray therefore we should pray vnto them we know not but certaine it is that they are n DVR We knovv the blessednes of the Saints in heauen and therefore they are not ignorant of our misery in earth Againe Christ hath reueiled vnto the Saints liuing on the earth diuine and heauenly things and therefore he reueileth to the Saints in heauen vvhat is done in earth WHIT. pag 330. Although we generally know that the Saints in heauen are blessed yet we know not their particular state their actions the manner degree of their happines and therefore if your argument be good it confuteth your self seeing therfore it followeth that they likwise are ignorant of our particular state actions Moreouer Christ
Sleidanus Illyricus Kemnisius Caluinus Ioan. Iuellus Others haue spoken of it those things that are most true both how it was called how handled and how it was dismissed and therefore I will not goe about to refute your affections Let it enioy for me that credit and estimation which it can Although euery one knoweth thus much that it was not to bee esteemed a Councell of the whole Christian state An assemblie of certaine men but rather a Conuenticle of a few men running together into the same place There was there present a sort of sillâ—e Friers which did susteine the greatest part of the burthen by disputing writing and playing the Orators For as for the Bishops and chiefe Cardinals they busied their heads about other matters for which they were speciallie assembled But as I said let it be such as it was for I am not offended at your commendations And let the Bishops make their glorious bragges that they long abode in that schoole out of which as yet as farre as I know not many either learned diuines or good Pastors haue come You also vsher in Antonie of Prage greatly congratulating with himselfe for you would needs shew him some kindnes because he made you a Priest Well Campian was created Priest by Antony Archbishop of Prage surely I feare lest you trauelled too far to buy such base wares But now you may celebrate your Masses seeing you are shauen and annointed and made a Priest Moreouer you demaund exceedingly triumph why your Aduersaries called hither and secured by the caution of publike promise did not make all hast to come vnto it In which you are sufficiently answered in the Apoligie of our Church For what should wee doe there or to what end should we vndertake so long a iourney either that being mocked and abused we might returne home againe or being burned in the Councell we should pay for our rashnes For what place of disputation was left amongst those who had euery man plighted their faith to the Bishop of Rome had religiously bound themselues by oath that they would neuer either doe or say any thing againg his dignity and pleasure what therfore might be hoped for from these which might draw any to the disputation besides the * DVR Iohn Husse was not called by the Councell of Constance neither receiued from it any publike promise And whereas you say that it was decreed in this Councell that faith is not to be kept with heretikes it is false WHIT. pag. 352. The Emperour Sigismund gaue him his publike warrant which the Councel most dishonorably infringed And after they had put Husse to death contrary to publike promise they enacted a law that a promise made vnto heretikes by the Emperour or by any King or secular Prince should not hinder any Ecclesiasticall Iudges from proceeding against them according to law Concil Constant Sess 19. calamity of Iohn Husse of Bohemia and Hierome of Prage whom the Father 's burned in the Councell of Constance brought iust cause of feare And yet Husse came to the Councell trusting in the protection of a publike promise Yea but say you the Constantine Fathers made no promise and therefore did not breake any But Sigismonde the Emperor gaue his publike warrant vnto whom it was fit that he should giue credit Notwithstanding comming to the Councell he was presently apprehended and cast into prison and pleading his cause before the Councell he was condemned and burned although Sigismond stormed at it Neither did hee flie as you falsely report neither in truth could hee escape but thus this holy and innocent man was deuoured like a sheepe by furious wolues And what I pray you did the Emperors authoritie commandement or publike warrantize profit him The Emperor say you signed it but the state of Christendome greater than the Emperors did repeale it And who then can be safe if the Emperors beare no sway in the Councell Neither doth the horrible murther of Iohn Husse contrarie to a publike warrant of protection so much discourage vs from comming to your Councels as that decree published by the Councell it selfe That promise is not to be kept with Heretikes Should I then beleeue you who I know will keepe no promise If I doe surely I am worthy to perish after the same manner Hierome of Prage likewise came to the Councell of his owne accord and making publike profession of his faith was burned So that the case of these two than the which all Christendome at that time had not any more holy or learned shall remaine as a perpetuall monument of your treacherie and most horrible crueltie and as a notable caueat vnto all the godly to beware of you for the time to come Concerning Luther whom you cursed Frier call the hatred of God and men the hand and power of God himselfe so defended him that you could neuer hurt him For will was not wanting to you for the destruction of Luther but opportunitie But he was safe say you vpon the Emperors word neither in truth durst the Pope attempt Luthers death after the Emperor had promised him safetie For would Charles the fifth thinke you haue endured it It was not behoofefull for the Pope to haue attempted any thing whereby the Emperors faith might appeare falsified for Charles would neuer so easilie haue put vp such an indignitie as Sigismond had done in time past But say you they doe too much brag in corners in which when they haue but sounded three Greeke words they would seeme to be very wise They might perhaps seeme wise to you who scarcely as I suppose can sound three Greeke words They cannot as you say indure the light which would bring a Scholler into account and would recall him into some place of reckening and is this it Campian which you hunt after a name same places of account to be poynted at with the finger and to be thus spoken of This is the man aduanced to greatest grace excelling in worth and worthy place Doth this grieue you that you are not highly esteemed of and doe not sit in high place Well man proceede in your vertuous courses and goe forward in the way into the which you are entred to your great praise and there is good hope you may ascend vnto such an high place as you are worthie of But wheras you desire That the English Catholikes may obtaine a Patent of impunity if they loue the saluation of their soules surely you require a thing vniust vnequal For what liknes is there in this that learned men should assemble from all parts vnto a publike Councell and that Runnagates should be permitted to returne vnto their countrie We will say you with winged speed hast vnto the Court relying our selues vpon the Princes word And so indeed you safely may for if shee giue her word you may promise vnto your selues assured securitie And I the more easilie beleeue you speake the truth seeing some of you already haue
void of good workes but it is of that nature that it worketh by loue It is therefore faith alone which iustifieth that is which embraceth Christs obedience wherin our righteousnes consisteth but yet this faith which iustifieth is neuer alone for it is euer accompanied with hope and charity and doth not suffer it selfe to be disioyned from it For as the heate alone of the fire doth set the wood on fire and yet this heate is not alone but continually ioyned with the light so faith alone of it self doth iustifie albeit it can neuer be quite alone Now seeing that all our righteousnes and happines do consist in the pardon of sinnes we also teach that this ought to be most certainly perswaded to vs and knowne of vs so as our soules may rest therin as in a most safe and quiet hauen For being iustified by faith wee haue peace toward God through our Lord Iesus Christ. Now what could this peace be it we were alwaies distracted with a doubtful hope thoughts and tossed as it were with waues hither and thither about our saluation Albeit therefore our consciences are set vpon oftentimes by many terrors so as they cannot be so secure in this life as if wee did alreadie enioy the endlesse ioy of heauen yet we say that this faith ought to depend most certainly and strongly vpon the promises of God so as wee may expell all doubting about the grace of God our adoption and saluation For true faith cannot agree with vnbeliefe It is the propertie of this to distrust Gods promises but the property of that is to ouercome and driue away all doubting as much as may be But if faith be full of doubting wherein doth it go beyond vnbeliefe let vs beleeue the Apostle who both knew very well and hath described exactly the nature of true faith He propoundeth Abraham vnto vn in whom wee may behold a most notable image of true faith What did he did he stagger was hee in suspense with himselfe did he doubt nay in him al things were contrary Rom. 4 1◠he against hope did beleeue vnder hope he was not weake in the faith hee did not discourse against the promise of God through vnbeliefe he was strengthned in the faith hee was fully perswaded that God which had promised could performe it And this faith was imputed to him for righteousnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This was Abrahams faith shal ours bee vnlike it but he is our Father wee his children and children should bee like their father The conclusion is made now against you Campian that by faith wee are i DVR You can neuer shew out of Gods word that forgiuenes of all sinnes is giuen to them vvho apprehend the righteousnes of Christ by saith WHIT. pag. 618. This that you deny to be shewed in the Scriptures is most plainly taught in them as Ioh. 3.16 Act. 10.43 Act. 13.39 DVR But vve know not vvhether vve be endued vvith true faith WHIT. pag. 620. Indeed it cannot be denied that many are deceiued with a fained faith but they who are indued vvith true faith they do know that they haue true faith so did Paul 2. Tim. 1.12 know for himself in 2. Cor. 13.5 he biddeth other learne to know it So a Christiā may know that he hath true faith that by the spirit that he hath giuen vs as 1. Ioh. 3.24 made certaine of our saluation and that your variable and suspicious faith is liker to infidelity than to faith Basil in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 k DVR That which you bring out of Basil and the Tridentime Catechisme doth ouerthrow your selfe what certaintie can a man haue of his iustification vvhen as S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 4.4 I knovv nothing by my selfe yet am I not thereby iustified And the like hath Iob. cap. 9.15.20 WHIT pag. 622. If they attribute to faith a most certaine persvvasion without doubting as they do do they not cōfirme our doctrine that a man may be certaine of his saluation For those temptations which come frō the flesh though they may shake it yet they cannot ouerthrow it As for S. Paul doth hee denie himself to be iustified doth he doubt of his saluatiō Reade the end of the eight to the Romans and you shall find him so certaine of his iustification and saluation as that you Papists are glad to ansvvere that he had it by an extraordinary reuelation of the spirit And do you novv make him doubting of his saluation But you vnderstand not Saint Paul in the place you alleadge for he doth not not deny that he is iustified but he saith that thereby he is not iustified because he knovveth nothing by himselfe Iob also though he dare not trust to his owne workes and innocency yet he shevveth himselfe to be certaine of his ovvne saluation Iob 19.26 Basil saith excellently What is the propertie of faith a full or certaine perswasion void of all doubting But what meane I to conuince you by testimonies of the auncient whom the very Catechisme of Trent doth confute Catechis Trid. in 1. art Symb. The word beliefe saith it as the holy Scriptures teach hath the force of most certaine consent Wherefore he beleeueth to whom any thing is certaine and assured without doubting Now we beleeue euerlasting life therefore it ought to be most certaine assured to vs without any doubting I require now nothing more the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent ratified by the authoritie of the Pope and Councell teacheth me that a man ought to be certaine of his saluation But are you not yet quiet but stil question farther for say you how can a man be sure l DVR VVho could euer be certaine of his ovvne perseuerance to the end vvithout the peculiar reuelatiō of God WHIT. pag. 626. In this speech you cut in sunder the sinevves of Gods euerlasting decree For seeing Gods predestination is certaine and vnchangeable it doth cause our calling iustifying and glorifying to be as certaine as it selfe For is it in your povver to dissolue and breake in sunder that golden chaine of the Apostle Rom. 8.30 and to vvhom can his owne perseuerance be doubtfull seeing God testifieth his perpetual good wil towards vs as these scriptures fully teach Ier. 32 40. Ioh. 13. 1. Luc 22.32 Iob. 17.20.21 Matth. 21.22 Rom. 8.9 Ioh. 14.16 Ioh. 10.28 Phil. 2.6 Rom. 11.29 1. Ioh. 3.9 Matth. 24.24 of his future perseuerance That may be certaine Campian by faith which if it be true cannot vtterly decay Heb. 11.1 The Apostle termeth faith the m DVR No man euer doubted but that all those things which vve beleeue are most certaine But you ought to shevv that euery ode ought to beleeue that he shall perseuere in that faith to his end Saint Paul she vveth that certaine had made shipvvracke of faith 1. Tim. 1.19 WHIT. pag. 627. The question is not vvhether things beleeued be certaine or no for
2. cap. 35. whom they vsually called Atheist but an other Aetius the likenes of the names deceiued you To that you obiected concerning Vigilantius and Iouinian an answere is formerly giuen a DVR You speake vvitâ—ilie but you must of necessity do the one WHIT. pag. 884. If they haue defended any thing against the Scriptures they are heretikes but if not they cannot bee condemned by the iudgement of any Church for my part I neither meane to defend them nor can I greatly accuse thâ—m If they were hereticks conuince them of some error they held against the scriptures Hieromes passions can make no man an heretick Now you bring in the swarme of hereticks Macedonians PelagiaÌ„s Nestorians Eutychians the Mâ—â—otholites and Iconomachs These first we hate as hell it selfe those last haue committed nothing deseruing the name of hereticks To set vp and worship Images is hereticall but not to ouerthrow them What you iudge touching Luther and Caluinâ— is nothing materiall whiles they liued they nothing regarded you now they are dead they despise you what will you conclude at length from this hereticall companie Aâ—â— these you say forsooke the gouerment of your Church and were ouerthrowne by them Nay Campian these were your forefathers and you their progenie and successors for your monster of Poperie hath been hatched by the impure commixtion of all heresies But you now appeare out of hell Lands and are come to land and wheresoeuer you cast your eyes or thoughts All is your own as you say all subiect themselues and subscribe to your religion Me thinks I see that brainsick Merchant who standing by the sea and beholding the ships cried out all he saw was his owne otherwise such senselesse dreames could not proceed but from a wit and iudgement exceedingly weakned Sedes Apostolica For say you the Romane succession witnesseth in which Church as Austen speaketh the Primacie of the Apostolike chaire hath alwaies had the preeminence Many causes there were why speciall accompt in times past should be made of the church of Rome especially for that Rome was the seate of the Empire as approued in the Councell held at Constantinople Concil Constantinop 1. cap. 5. b DVR VVhy then may not he that is Bishop of this Church be ouer all other Bishops and so the Prince of Priests the chiefe Priest and supreame head of the rest WHIT. pag. 885. Because authoritie and dominion is not proper to them who are more excelleÌ„t then others which may bee shewed by infinite examples Who can be ignorant that the tribe of Iudah was the chiefe the first and the Prince of the other tribes will it therefore follow that the head of the principall family in this tribe had authoritie ouer all other tribes Aristotle was accounted the prince of Philosophers Homer of Poets Hippocrates of Physitians Apelles of Painters did they therefore exercise authoritie ouer all the rest of the same profession So though for a long time together the church of Rome for many respects was excellent among the rest yet it neuer had domination and rule ouer the rest of the Churches of Christ I graunt therefore thaâ—â—his Church was accompted the supreme chiefe greatest and the principall preferred before other Churches Trow you hence to conclude the Bishop of Rome is the chiefe and principall Bishop or head of the Church Concil Carthag 3. cap. 26. Dist 99 prima sedis Austen himselfe forbid it in the Councell of Carthage viz. that the Bishop of the chiefe Sea should not be called Prince of Priests or any like title Although then the holy Fathers for diuers respects gaue the preheminence to the church of Rome yet â—â—d they neuer acknowledge c DVR This prohibition was giuen by the Fathers because they knew that aâ— the soueraignty of the Apostolike Chaire did euer flourish in the Romane Church so they did not doubt but the manner of the chiefe Priest did appertainâ— onely to the Bishop of Rome WHIT. pag. 885. Nay the prohâ—bition of the Councell did as well concerne the Bishop of Rome whom all acknowledge to be the Bishop of the chiefe seate as the Bishops of other Seas Therefore for the time he obeyed the decree of the Councell and was content with his names and refused to be called the soueraigne chiefe Priest that infinite pâ—â—â—â—â—â—â—ll authority which he now challengeth neither â—â—d other Apostolike Churches whether they were founded by the Apostles themselues or by some of their schollers yeeld any testimonie of truth to the church of Rome Heere you stick in a quagmire and â—â—e faine by intreatie to beg that which by strong reason you should prooue and cannot But you vrge further and recompt the Pastors of seuerall countries to whaâ— end I pray you The remainderâ— say you of the labours of all those that haue published the Gospell in all nations farrs and wide all present vnto vs this same religion which Catholâ—kes at this day professe What could be affirmed more weakely for the Greeians are opposite vnto you which vnto this time haue their succession of Bishops not interrupted And further the spyeâ— which you send in your new found lands haue found in the furthest coasts thereof many monuments of that faith which we mainteine Osâ—rius neither may you preferre vs before them at least afore all you ought to preferre the truth Aristot. as the Philosopher saith But if you thinke your Popes and other glorious titles more auncient then the Gospell what can you alleage why Christ should not denie you to belong to him seeing you value any thing more then him Heere you tell vs of Princes Princes Kings Câ—sars Emperours and make a goodly shew of names as your manner is At length you meÌ„tion our noble Queenâ— Elizabeth and will needs teach her her dutie But she Campian needs no such Masters â—say 48. or instructiors She knoweth her selfe to be the nursing mother of the Church and that by diuine dispensation and accordingly doth she with all watchfulnes and care procure the good thereof and labours by all possible diligence to preuent all dangers intended by you and your adherents You say of Caluine and these Princes 〈◊〉 you haue spoken thâ—◠〈◊〉 heauen can noâ— containe theÌ„ But it passeâ—h your skill to pronounce certainely hereof nay your Pope himselfe cannot with all his might pull Caluiâ—â— out of heauen not any of them whom Christ hath made witnesses of his truth As for you and your fellowes we wish you not the gallowes but saluation I desire to hope the best of you and I doubt not but you might attaine to the knowledge of the truth in controuersie betwixt vs if for the time you could lay aside all preiudicate opinions and consult with the word of God and the holy Fathers of the Church As for the societie of Iesus whereunto you are admitted it braggeth that it is wholie at the Popes dispensation and loues Gregory the 13.