not_o to_o be_v cast_v off_o although_o it_o swarm_v full_a of_o fault_n though_o there_o be_v fault_n in_o the_o administration_n either_o of_o doctrine_n or_o of_o the_o sacrament_n yet_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o estrange_v ourselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o for_o all_o the_o article_n be_v not_o of_o one_o sort_n and_o therefore_o for_o every_o light_a dessention_n we_o ought_v not_o rash_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n 4._o the_o value_n which_o our_o englesh_fw-mi presbyterian_o just_a before_o the_o war_n have_v of_o our_o church_n and_o its_o lay-communion_n be_v not_o impertinent_a 1643._o letter_n of_o many_o minister_n in_o old_a england_n to_o their_o brethren_n in_o new_a e._n pub_fw-la by_o mr._n ash_n &c_n &c_n 1643._o but_o very_o considerable_a together_o with_o the_o censure_n they_o then_o pass_v upon_o such_o as_o refuse_v it_o they_o speak_v to_o their_o brethren_n in_o new_a england_n thus_o if_o we_o deny_v communion_n with_o such_o a_o church_n as_o we_o there_o have_v be_v no_o church_n these_o 1400_o year_n with_o which_o a_o christian_a may_v lawful_o join_v nay_o that_o if_o such_o scruple_n as_o be_v now_o in_o your_o head_n may_v take_v place_n it_o will_v be_v unlawful_a to_o hold_v communion_n with_o any_o society_n under_o heaven_n 5._o mr._n gifford_n a_o old_a nonconformist_a write_v a_o book_n 1590._o gifford_n printed_n 1590._o call_v a_o plain_a declaration_n wherein_o he_o do_v not_o vindicate_v every_o thing_n in_o our_o church_n but_o that_o there_o be_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n of_o separation_n complain_v thus_o some_o be_v proceed_v to_o this_o that_o they_o will_v come_v to_o the_o assembly_n to_o hear_v sermon_n and_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o preacher_n but_o not_o to_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o book_n which_o i_o take_v to_o be_v a_o more_o grievous_a sin_n than_o many_o do_v suppose_v but_o yet_o this_o be_v not_o the_o worst_a for_o sundry_a be_v go_v far_o and_o fall_v into_o a_o damnable_a schysm_n and_o the_o same_o so_o much_o the_o more_o fearful_a and_o dangerous_a in_o that_o many_o do_v not_o see_v the_o foulness_n of_o it_o but_o rather_o hold_v they_o as_o godly_a christian_n and_o but_o a_o little_a over-shot_a in_o some_o matter_n 6._o we_o come_v now_o to_o review_v the_o testimony_n we_o give_v in_o our_o last_o from_o the_o late_a presbiterian_a controversy_n with_o the_o independent_o we_o pitch_v upon_o some_o word_n of_o the_o provincial_a assembly_n in_o london_n and_o the_o argument_n send_v to_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n by_o the_o london_n minister_n from_o zion_n college_n two_o eminent_a body_n of_o know_v presbyterian_o and_o we_o yet_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o judge_n but_o their_o word_n and_o argument_n be_v very_o direct_a and_o full_a to_o the_o purpose_n especial_o consider_v the_o most_o pitiful_a shift_n of_o our_o answerer_n about_o they_o as_o to_o the_o word_n in_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o presbytery_n be_v say_v that_o eccl._n jus_fw-la divin_fw-fr reg._n eccl._n book_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v pen_v by_o dr_n roberts_n now_o a_o conformist_n but_o what_o do_v he_o mean_a be_v he_o a_o conformi_v then_o or_o do_v not_o the_o book_n plead_v for_o the_o presbytery_n and_o its_o jus_fw-la divinum_fw-la and_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n by_o which_o he_o himself_o define_v a_o presbyterian_a yea_o be_v it_o not_o own_v by_o and_o publish_v under_o the_o name_n of_o the_o provincial_a assembly_n of_o presbyterian_o and_o what_o matter_n be_v it_o then_o who_o pen_v it_o the_o like_o deal_v you_o use_v about_o mr._n trapp_n you_o say_v he_o be_v a_o conformist_n what_o then_o have_v he_o not_o give_v a_o just_a account_n of_o the_o book_n write_v by_o the_o london_n minister_n as_o i_o say_v he_o do_v their_o reason_n allege_v by_o i_o be_v allege_v by_o a_o conformist_n yet_o they_o be_v they_o still_o what_o manner_n of_o answer_v be_v this_o it_o be_v not_o pardonable_a with_o some_o adversary_n but_o you_o be_v fall_v into_o merciful_a hand_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o person_n than_o be_v clear_a the_o word_n i_o cite_v out_o of_o the_o preface_n to_o that_o book_n call_v jus_fw-la divinum_fw-la regiminis_fw-la ecclesiastici_fw-la be_v these_o parochial_a church_n be_v receive_v as_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o most_o convenient_a for_o edification_n gather_v church_n out_o of_o church_n have_v no_o footstep_n in_o scripture_n be_v contrary_a to_o apostolical_a practice_n be_v the_o scatter_n of_o church_n the_o daughter_n of_o schysm_n the_o mother_n of_o confusion_n and_o the_o stepmother_n of_o edification_n observe_v they_o condemn_v gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o church_n absolute_o and_o without_o any_o respect_n to_o the_o principle_n upon_o which_o it_o be_v do_v particular_o they_o call_v it_o the_o daughter_n of_o schysm_n separation_n in_o order_n unto_o the_o gather_n of_o church_n be_v schysm_n itself_o in_o the_o then_o presbyterian_a opinion_n the_o argument_n i_o take_v out_o of_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o london_n minister_n sion-coll_n sion-coll_n to_o the_o assembly_n be_v these_o the_o independent_o be_v guilty_a of_o schysm_n 1._o because_o they_o refuse_v communion_n with_o our_o church_n in_o the_o sacrament_n 2._o they_o erect_v separate_v congregation_n under_o a_o separate_a undiscovered_a government_n never_o charge_v they_o with_o any_o brownistical_a principle_n but_o the_o fact_n itself_o a_o undoubted_a proof_n of_o what_o they_o undertake_v to_o prove_v again_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n they_o charge_v they_o with_o three_o great_a scandal_n how_o you_o will_v avoid_v either_o of_o they_o i_o can_v devine_n 1._o that_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o true_a church_n 2._o that_o they_o endeavour_v by_o draw_v member_n out_o of_o it_o to_o make_v up_o their_o separate_a church_n to_o weaken_v and_o diminish_v the_o church_n 3._o that_o they_o endeavour_v to_o get_v a_o warrant_n to_o authorise_v both_o viz._n by_o a_o toleration_n and_o this_o say_v they_o we_o think_v to_o be_v plain_o unlawful_a now_o hereupon_o i_o be_o bold_a to_o challenge_v our_o answerer_n or_o any_o one_o else_o to_o prove_v clear_o that_o any_o one_o eminent_a presbyterian_a before_o 1660._o be_v not_o utter_o against_o all_o the_o three_o against_o such_o separation_n such_o gather_a church_n and_o such_o toleration_n convince_v i_o if_o you_o can_v but_o not_o by_o tell_v i_o they_o be_v now_o for_o they_o all_o that_o they_o will_v tolerate_v thing_n tolerable_a that_o be_v gather_v church_n and_o person_n tolerable_a that_o be_v presbyterian_o as_o you_o speak_v very_o intelligible_o but_o no_o wonder_n they_o be_v change_v in_o their_o thought_n of_o these_o thing_n the_o case_n be_v alter_v as_o you_o hint_n true_o there_o be_v some_o new_a imposition_n upon_o ministerial_a conformity_n but_o other_o alteration_n render_v our_o lay-communion_n more_o easy_o than_o it_o be_v before_o the_o war_n when_o the_o presbyterian_a deny_v it_o not_o as_o be_v note_v out_o of_o mr._n baxter_n before_o who_o also_o assure_v we_o that_o he_o never_o hear_v of_o five_o nonconformist_n beside_o the_o five_o dissent_v 13._o defence_n of_o his_o cure_n p._n 13._o brethren_n in_o the_o assembly_n at_o westminster_n he_o mean_v they_o conform_v as_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n before_o they_o sit_v there_o however_o that_o church_n may_v not_o be_v gather_v out_o of_o church_n be_v assert_v not_o as_o a_o temporary_a truth_n but_o moral_a depend_v upon_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o church_n which_o never_o alter_v or_o give_v any_o occasion_n of_o change_n in_o the_o judgement_n about_o this_o point_n the_o book_n of_o mr._n cawdrey_n that_o captain_n in_o the_o presbyterian_a cawdrey_n cawdrey_n army_n against_o dr._n owen_n and_o the_o independent_o challenge_v you_o all_o we_o may_v say_v he_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v schysmatical_a 1._o by_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n from_o true_a church_n with_o who_o we_o dare_v say_v they_o may_v communicate_v without_o sin_n and_o so_o consequent_o causeless_o rend_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n 2._o by_o their_o renounce_n communion_n with_o we_o to_o set_v up_o a_o church_n of_o another_o 74_o indep_n further_o proud_a schys_n p._n 73_o 74_o constitution_n and_o so_o condemn_v our_o church_n ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la as_o no_o true_o constitute_v church_n mark_v condemn_v our_o church_n ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la their_o very_a act_n be_v enough_o whether_o they_o avow_v such_o principle_n or_o not_o and_o consequent_o what_o ever_o you_o pretend_v to_o the_o contrary_a your_o very_a departure_n from_o we_o and_o make_v new_a church_n do_v of_o itself_o condemn_v you_o of_o schysm_n he_o conclude_v his_o first_o book_n brave_o they_o say_v he_o that_o schysm_n ind._n great_a schysm_n raise_v difference_n in_o they_o i_o e._n in_o our_o church_n and_o draw_v disciple_n from_o they_o and_o renounce_v communion_n
any_o think_v it_o more_o proper_a to_o radicate_v this_o union_n in_o his_o grace_n of_o canterbury_n as_o primate_n over_o all_o england_n or_o whether_o in_o both_o the_o arch-bishop_n who_o hold_v communion_n in_o the_o same_o doctrine_n worship_n and_o law_n and_o in_o who_o both_o the_o province_n be_v unite_v or_o last_o whether_o we_o be_v not_o rather_o unite_v in_o all_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o the_o pars_fw-la regens_fw-la and_o our_o government_n in_o the_o church_n consider_v pure_o and_o abstract_o from_o the_o civil_a government_n be_v not_o rather_o a_o aristocracy_n than_o a_o monarchy_n whether_o this_o or_o the_o other_o be_v the_o true_a to_o know_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a nor_o of_o any_o use_n that_o i_o can_v perceive_v in_o the_o present_a controversy_n but_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a vanity_n to_o say_v because_o i_o can_v find_v the_o head_n i_o will_v deny_v the_o body_n though_o i_o must_v withal_o deny_v my_o own_o sense_n because_o you_o can_v know_v certain_o who_o be_v your_o father_n will_v you_o deny_v your_o mother_n which_o be_v the_o sure_a side_n there_o be_v a_o church_n of_o englâ—nd_n and_o what_o it_o be_v i_o have_v endeavour_v to_o show_v and_o by_o the_o nature_n of_o it_o we_o may_v more_o easy_o conclude_v what_o schism_n from_o it_o be_v and_o who_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o whether_o such_o as_o separate_a and_o gather_v church_n or_o not_o chap._n viii_o what_o schism_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v and_o whether_o gather_v of_o church_n aâ—_n now_o be_v practise_v be_v not_o guilty_a of_o it_o 1._o what_o be_v schism_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n sure_o it_o be_v not_o a_o deny_v its_o doctrine_n or_o hold_v any_o thing_n contrary_a thereunto_o he_o that_o hold_v perversum_fw-la dogma_fw-la only_o be_v a_o 3._o ad_fw-la tit._n cap._n 3._o heretic_n no_o schismatic_a as_o st._n hierom_n teach_v mr._n newcomen_fw-mi a_o learned_a presbyterian_a as_o i_o observe_v in_o my_o last_o let_v we_o the_o separatist_n know_v that_o their_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o doctrine_n that_o be_v fundamental_a their_o hold_v one_o head_n and_o one_o faith_n do_v not_o excuse_v they_o from_o be_v guilty_a of_o breach_n of_o unity_n so_o long_o as_o they_o hold_v not_o one_o body_n one_o baptism_n for_o he_o cite_v beza_n another_o learned_a 10._o annotat._n in_o 1_o cor._n 1._o 10._o presbyterian_a so_o that_o you_o may_v be_v willing_a to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o 39_o article_n and_o yet_o be_v schismatic_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n it_o remain_v therefore_o that_o such_o schism_n relate_v to_o the_o other_o band_n of_o our_o union_n and_o fellowship_n with_o this_o church_n to_o wit_n her_o government_n and_o worship_n and_o consequent_a to_o the_o latter_a her_o member_n and_o assembly_n thus_o you_o see_v we_o must_v return_v to_o our_o first_o determination_n that_o schism_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o sinful_a divide_v from_o or_o a_o dissolve_v our_o union_n and_o communion_n with_o she_o in_o her_o governor_n and_o member_n worship_n or_o assembly_n this_o be_v the_o least_o that_o we_o mean_v by_o schism_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o be_v call_v separation_n or_o schism_n negative_a which_o be_v make_v positive_a and_o more_o formal_o such_o when_o those_o that_o have_v so_o separate_v set_v up_o their_o altar_n against_o she_o and_o erect_v other_o congregation_n in_o opposition_n to_o she_o the_o schismatic_a by_o dr._n hamond_n 40._o of_o schism_n epist_n 40._o out_o of_o ignatius_n be_v describe_v to_o be_v filius_fw-la impius_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o impious_a son_n which_o have_v contemn_v the_o bishop_n and_o forsake_v the_o priest_n of_o god_n dare_v constitute_v another_o altar_n and_o again_o epist_n 57_o the_o schismatic_n be_v they_o that_o have_v leave_v their_o bishop_n set_v up_o for_o themselves_o abroad_o another_o false_a bishop_n and_o all_o their_o adherent_n be_v involve_v in_o the_o same_o guilt_n who_o join_v with_o the_o schismatic_n against_o their_o bishop_n two_o thing_n here_o must_v be_v suppose_v 1._o that_o we_o be_v the_o pars_fw-la subdita_fw-la and_o do_v owe_v this_o communion_n and_o obedience_n to_o these_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o that_o they_o impose_v no_o unlawful_a condition_n of_o this_o communion_n upon_o we_o though_o if_o they_o shall_v how_o far_o we_o may_v separate_v must_v take_v its_o measure_n from_o such_o imposition_n which_o be_v another_o question_n to_o be_v discuss_v anon_o in_o another_o place_n and_o at_o present_a i_o shall_v only_o add_v that_o so_o far_o as_o i_o understand_v my_o answerer_n so_o far_o as_o the_o people_n be_v concern_v in_o the_o condition_n of_o our_o communion_n we_o be_v not_o likely_a to_o differ_v much_o in_o this_o point_n but_o for_o the_o first_o of_o these_o supposition_n if_o there_o be_v any_o force_n in_o scripture_n precept_n require_v obedience_n to_o our_o spiritual_a guide_n or_o in_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n which_o be_v very_o severe_a to_o that_o purpose_n nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_a than_o that_o all_o english_a christian_n do_v owe_v communion_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n who_o government_n stand_v establish_v by_o both_o sort_n of_o law_n and_o be_v so_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o declaration_n itself_o and_o your_o friend_n mr._n baxter_n be_v 76._o defence_n of_o his_o cure_n p._n 76._o not_o obscure_a in_o this_o point_n we_o must_v own_v say_v he_o a_o national_a church_n as_o it_o be_v improper_o so_o denominate_v from_o the_o king_n that_o be_v the_o civil_a head_n and_o as_o it_o be_v a_o community_n of_o christian_n and_o a_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n unite_v by_o the_o concord_n of_o her_o pastor_n who_o in_o synod_n may_v represent_v the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o be_v the_o mean_n of_o their_o agreement_n he_o say_v we_o must_v own_v the_o national_a church_n i_o say_v than_o we_o must_v not_o disow_v she_o and_o must_v we_o not_o likewise_o own_o the_o king_n as_o the_o head_n thereof_o and_o all_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n and_o governor_n under_o he_o and_o then_o what_o liberty_n be_v leave_v we_o to_o disow_v deny_v or_o renounce_v their_o person_n or_o authority_n let_v such_o especial_o as_o have_v take_v the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n and_o receive_v ordination_n from_o episcopal_a hand_n yet_o better_a consider_v those_o solemn_a obligation_n upon_o they_o add_v to_o the_o law_n and_o take_v heed_n in_o earnest_n of_o perfidiousness_n and_o perjury_n let_v they_o consider_v what_o be_v to_o renounce_v all_o foreign_a jurisdiction_n and_o to_o their_o power_n to_o assist_v and_o defend_v all_o jurisdiction_n spiritual_a as_o well_o as_o temporal_a grant_v or_o belong_v to_o the_o king_n highness_n and_o how_o well_o a_o renounce_v obedience_n to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n consist_v with_o that_o which_o we_o have_v swear_v therein_o it_o be_v true_a all_o be_v not_o call_v actual_o to_o take_v this_o oath_n yet_o it_o be_v as_o true_a that_o the_o minister_n and_o officer_n of_o all_o sort_n general_o be_v and_o all_o graduate_n in_o the_o university_n and_o for_o other_o as_o they_o be_v the_o king_n subject_n they_o be_v unquestionable_o take_v to_o be_v under_o the_o same_o obligation_n as_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o and_o be_v bear_v to_o the_o duty_n as_o well_o as_o the_o privilege_n of_o subject_n of_o this_o realm_n and_o therefore_o we_o find_v that_o this_o oath_n be_v administer_v not_o only_o to_o oblige_v but_o rather_o as_o a_o test_n to_o try_v and_o also_o to_o secure_v the_o fidelity_n of_o such_o as_o take_v it_o as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o statute_n again_o let_v all_o minister_n ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o hope_v i_o have_v now_o to_o do_v with_o one_o in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n serious_o consider_v what_o they_o promise_v to_o do_v at_o their_o ordination_n be_v most_o solemn_o interogated_a by_o the_o bishop_n in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n and_o of_o his_o church_n as_o the_o word_n be_v more_o particular_o the_o bishop_n demand_v will_v you_o then_o give_v your_o faithful_a diligence_n always_o for_o to_o minister_v the_o doctrine_n and_o sacrament_n and_o discipline_n of_o christ_n as_o the_o lord_n have_v command_v and_o as_o this_o church_n and_o realm_n have_v receive_v the_o same_o according_a to_o commandment_n of_o god_n so_o that_o you_o may_v teach_v the_o people_n commit_v to_o your_o cure_n and_o charge_n with_o all_o diligence_n to_o keep_v and_o observe_v the_o same_o what_o answer_n do_v you_o make_v hereunto_o i_o will_v do_v so_o by_o the_o help_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o thus_o you_o at_o once_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o doctrine_n sacrament_n and_o discipline_n
with_o we_o in_o our_o public_a assembly_n and_o gather_v new_a church_n for_o themselves_o out_o of_o they_o this_o they_o do_v though_o you_o know_v we_o general_o have_v not_o give_v they_o cause_n to_o do_v it_o and_o they_o do_v it_o rash_o and_o total_o and_o all_o your_o little_a device_n will_v never_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o thing_n or_o excuse_v it_o from_o gross_a schism_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o that_o be_v not_o separatist_n and_o speak_v their_o mind_n before_o the_o present_a temptation_n dazzle_v man_n eye_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o fly_v to_o your_o common_a refuge_n the_o strength_n of_o this_o argument_n will_v not_o suffer_v you_o to_o be_v quiet_a in_o it_o who_o ever_o before_o you_o make_v this_o a_o warrantable_a ground_n of_o separation_n that_o they_o may_v serve_v god_n better_o if_o find_v positive_a fault_n in_o our_o worship_n will_v not_o excuse_v they_o heretofore_o much_o less_o will_v negative_a one_o excuse_v you_o from_o separation_n but_o they_o think_v those_o be_v fault_n and_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n which_o be_v not_o true_a and_o they_o be_v mistake_v but_o yet_o they_o have_v more_o to_o say_v for_o themselves_o it_o seem_v than_o you_o have_v who_o do_v the_o same_o thing_n without_o allege_v so_o much_o ground_n and_o think_v to_o be_v whole_o free_a from_o the_o same_o charge_n sir_n schism_n consist_v in_o practice_n and_o whatever_o you_o think_v on_o it_o or_o however_o you_o will_v palliate_v the_o matter_n where_o that_o practice_n that_o true_o answer_v the_o definition_n of_o schism_n be_v find_v it_o will_v be_v schism_n do_v what_o you_o can_v be_v there_o any_o institution_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o must_v gather_v church_n out_o of_o true_a church_n to_o make_v a_o pure_a church_n ans_fw-fr mr._n cawdrey_n indep_n p._n 198._o but_o i_o prevent_v my_o design_n shism_n we_o have_v show_v be_v a_o causeless_a unwarrantable_a separation_n and_o it_o be_v true_a and_o so_o my_o answerer_n may_v have_v understand_v i_o and_o his_o brethren_n in_o my_o last_o i_o speak_v in_o the_o language_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o a_o little_a candour_n will_v have_v suppose_v that_o both_o i_o and_o they_o intend_v by_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o church_n such_o as_o be_v causeless_a unwarrantable_a and_o unnecessary_a for_o that_o they_o be_v still_o ready_a if_o need_v require_v to_o prove_v the_o independent_a separation_n such_o as_o i_o shall_v be_v anon_o to_o do_v you_o it_o be_v therefore_o some_o trouble_n to_o i_o to_o hear_v you_o ask_v as_o if_o something_o of_o argument_n be_v lodge_v in_o it_o whether_o a_o person_n removal_n from_o one_o parish_n to_o another_o to_o inhabit_v there_o be_v schism_n p._n 48._o and_o yet_o i_o conceive_v you_o have_v it_o more_o than_o twice_o over_o in_o your_o book_n you_o ask_v again_o must_v no_o church_n be_v gather_v out_o of_o rome_n i_o fear_v not_o many_o for_o you_o but_o for_o a_o full_a and_o plain_a answer_n to_o this_o i_o remit_v you_o to_o mr._n baxters_n cure_n of_o church_n division_n p._n 81_o 82_o 83._o which_o if_o it_o seem_v not_o plain_a and_o full_a to_o you_o it_o be_v because_o you_o understand_v not_o christian_a sense_n and_o reason_n again_o p._n 44._o do_v not_o the_o parliament_n take_v a_o church_n out_o of_o a_o church_n when_o they_o separate_v covent-garden_n from_o martin_n parish_n doubtless_o it_o be_v either_o with_o cause_n or_o not_o it_o be_v warrantable_a or_o not_o it_o be_v necessary_a or_o not_o but_o the_o jest_n be_v spoil_v if_o it_o be_v a_o church_n of_o the_o same_o constitution_n with_o consent_n of_o the_o person_n concern_v &_o by_o lawful_a authority_n have_v you_o no_o place_n to_o argue_v schismatical_a but_o coventgarden_n i_o will_v advise_v you_o as_o a_o friend_n to_o take_v a_o little_a more_o heed_n what_o you_o say_v about_o that_o place_n for_o fear_v of_o one_o of_o those_o schismatic_n which_o in_o other_o place_n you_o honour_n as_o usurper_n concern_v in_o your_o next_o section_n but_o behold_v the_o man_n at_o arm_n full_o accoutre_v without_o all_o fear_n but_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o wit_n and_o courage_n make_v a_o challenge_n to_o the_o faction_n disputer_n as_o his_o catholic_n language_n be_v and_o it_o be_v this_o as_o you_o may_v read_v it_o under_o his_o own_o hand_n obj._n i_o undertake_v say_v he_o to_o prove_v that_o dr._n manton_n dr._n seaman_n etc._n etc._n with_o the_o people_n subject_n to_o they_o as_o pastor_n be_v true_a church_n prove_v you_o if_o you_o can_v that_o on_o aug._n 24_o 62._o they_o be_v degrade_v and_o these_o church_n be_v dissolve_v in_o any_o reason_n which_o any_o church_n for_o 600._o year_n after_o christ_n will_v if_o not_o you_o seem_v yourself_o to_o accuse_v their_o successor_n of_o schism_n for_o draw_v part_n of_o the_o people_n from_o they_o mere_o by_o the_o advantage_n of_o have_v the_o temple_n and_o tithe_n and_o so_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o true_a church_n ans_fw-fr a_o marvellous_a undertaker_n he_o will_v undertake_v to_o prove_v one_o proposition_n and_o let_v the_o rest_n shift_n for_o themselves_o dr._n manton_n and_o dr._n seaman_n and_o their_o people_n be_v true_a church_n and_o this_o he_o will_v prove_v but_o what_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v venture_v to_o disappoint_v he_o and_o not_o deny_v it_o again_o prove_v if_o you_o can_v that_o these_o pastor_n be_v degrade_v and_o these_o church_n dissolve_v aug._n 24._o 62._o but_o what_o if_o a_o man_n have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v friend_n with_o he_o here_o too_o and_o shall_v grant_v that_o those_o minister_n be_v not_o degrade_v then_o but_o only_o eject_v and_o inhibit_v the_o exercise_n of_o their_o ministry_n within_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o that_o those_o church_n be_v not_o dissolve_v by_o have_v new_a pastor_n no_o more_o than_o the_o kingdom_n when_o the_o king_n die_v and_o yet_o certain_o the_o king_n and_o people_n be_v as_o much_o the_o constitutive_a part_n of_o a_o kingdom_n as_o pastor_n and_o people_n of_o a_o church_n who_o will_v say_v that_o consider_v what_o he_o say_v that_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v dissolve_v by_o the_o death_n or_o removal_n of_o the_o pastor_n the_o river_n be_v the_o same_o though_o the_o land_n on_o each_o side_n change_v their_o proprietor_n but_o what_o then_o suppose_v all_o this_o be_v quiet_o grant_v he_o what_o then_o then_o those_o that_o succeed_v they_o be_v schismatic_n or_o you_o seem_v to_o accuse_v they_o of_o schism_n how_o so_o for_o draw_v away_o part_n of_o the_o people_n from_o they_o whither_o to_o another_o manner_n of_o worship_n which_o the_o law_n require_v and_o which_o the_o eject_v refuse_v but_o how_o do_v they_o draw_v the_o people_n by_o do_v their_o duty_n in_o the_o temple_n as_o by_o good_a authority_n institute_v and_o induct_v thereunto_o institute_v as_o pastor_n to_o have_v the_o cure_n of_o soul_n and_o induct_v into_o the_o temple_n and_o tithe_n but_o last_o why_o do_v you_o say_v they_o draw_v a_o part_n of_o the_o people_n only_o and_o not_o the_o whole_a ought_v not_o the_o whole_a worship_n god_n undivided_a and_o with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n or_o must_v the_o place_n be_v remove_v with_o the_o pastor_n i_o choir_n not_o who_o make_v the_o difference_n but_o i_o know_v who_o make_v the_o division_n let_v they_o answer_v it_o how_o they_o can_v to_o god_n and_o the_o king_n the_o church_n and_o their_o successor_n those_o pastor_n be_v eject_v out_o of_o the_o temple_n by_o lawful_a authority_n the_o people_n be_v bind_v to_o worship_n god_n in_o the_o temple_n as_o they_o have_v opportunity_n and_o no_o where_o else_o in_o opposition_n to_o the_o public_a worship_n the_o consequence_n here_o i_o think_v may_v vie_v with_o you_o above_o therefore_o these_o pastor_n have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o exercise_v their_o pastoral_n office_n to_o those_o people_n and_o where_o there_o be_v no_o opportunity_n there_o be_v no_o duty_n in_o mr._n baxters_n divinity_n second_o admon_n to_o bagsh_n 96._o but_o you_o say_v you_o must_v preach_v the_o reverend_a dr._n gouge_n say_v no._n the_o inhibition_n of_o idolator_n and_o infidel_n make_v simple_o against_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n because_o they_o 570._o whole_a armour_n of_o god_n 570._o will_v have_v it_o utter_o suppress_v in_o this_o case_n he_o say_v no_o sufficient_a inhibition_n to_o bind_v the_o conscience_n it_o be_v direct_o and_o apparent_o contrary_a to_o god_n word_n but_o when_o christian_a magistrate_n inhibit_v minister_n to_o preach_v it_o be_v because_o they_o think_v they_o unfit_a and_o unmeet_a either_o for_o some_o notorious_a crime_n or_o for_o some_o erroneous_a opinion_n to_o exercise_v their_o ministerial_a function_n in_o these_o case_n such_o as_o be_v so_o inhibit_v
so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o be_v inhibit_v ought_v not_o to_o preach_v neither_o be_v particular_a and_o private_a man_n much_o less_o the_o party_n inhibit_v to_o judge_n of_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o inhibition_n whether_o it_o be_v just_a or_o unjust_a but_o as_o they_o who_o be_v appoint_v by_o the_o present_a government_n to_o ordain_v minister_n be_v to_o judge_n of_o their_o fitness_n thereunto_o so_o likewise_o of_o their_o unfitness_n i_o have_v think_v hitherto_o that_o distinction_n of_o the_o office_n and_o of_o the_o exercise_n of_o that_o office_n have_v go_v uncontrole_v among_o presbyterian_o and_o that_o though_o the_o minister_n of_o christ_n depend_v not_o even_o upon_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n for_o their_o office_n and_o he_o can_v degrade_v they_o yet_o quoad_fw-la exercitium_fw-la as_o to_o the_o exercise_n of_o it_o within_o his_o dominion_n they_o do_v and_o that_o he_o have_v power_n to_o silence_n such_o as_o he_o judge_v unmeet_a to_o preach_v mr._n baxter_n do_v much_o encourage_v i_o to_o persist_v in_o the_o same_o opinion_n more_o than_o once_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o king_n and_o lawful_a 117_o second_o admon_n to_o bag._n 117_o magistrate_n say_v mr._n baxter_n be_v more_o about_o the_o circumstantial_o of_o worship_n as_o whether_o abiathar_n shall_v be_v high_a priest_n etc._n etc._n then_o the_o false_a teacher_n be_v about_o that_o doctrine_n he_o more_o than_o intimate_v that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n extend_v to_o the_o appoint_v who_o shall_v be_v high_a priest_n and_o who_o doubt_n but_o that_o he_o have_v equal_a power_n to_o appoint_v who_o shall_v be_v pastor_n of_o covent-garden_n again_o hear_v mr._n baxter_n what_o he_o say_v more_o large_o upon_o the_o point_n disput_fw-la 223._o doubtless_o the_o magistrate_n himself_o have_v so_o much_o authority_n in_o ecclesiastical_a affair_n that_o if_o he_o command_v a_o qualify_a person_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n and_o command_v the_o people_n to_o receive_v he_o i_o see_v not_o how_o either_o of_o they_o can_v be_v allow_v to_o disobey_v he_o though_o yet_o the_o party_n ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n also_o to_o pastor_n for_o ordination_n and_o people_n for_o consent_v where_o it_o may_v be_v do_v and_o grotius_n commend_v the_o say_n of_o musculus_fw-la that_o he_o will_v have_v no_o minister_n question_v his_o call_n that_o be_v qualify_v have_v the_o christian_a magistrate_n commission_n and_o though_o this_o assertion_n need_v some_o limitation_n yet_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n be_v great_a about_o the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n for_o solomon_n put_v out_o abiathar_n from_o the_o priesthood_n and_o put_v zadock_n in_o his_o place_n 1_o king_n 2._o 27_o 35._o david_n and_o the_o captain_n of_o the_o host_n separate_v to_o god_n service_n those_o of_o the_o son_n of_o asaph_n and_o of_o heman_n and_o jeduther_n who_o shall_v prophesy_v with_o harp_n etc._n etc._n 1_o chron._n 16._o 4._o and_o so_o do_v solomon_n 2_o chron._n 8._o 14_o 15._o they_o be_v for_o the_o service_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n according_a to_o the_o king_n order_n 1_o chron._n 25._o 1_o 6._o and_o methinks_v those_o those_o man_n shall_v acknowledge_v this_o that_o be_v wont_a to_o style_v the_o king_n in_o all_o cause_n and_o over_o all_o person_n the_o supreme_a head_n and_o governor_n so_o far_o he._n and_o indeed_o i_o dare_v almost_o challenge_v this_o answerer_n or_o any_o man_n to_o prove_v that_o ever_o any_o learned_a protestant_n in_o this_o church_n whether_o episcopal_a or_o presbyterian_a do_v make_v it_o a_o question_n i_o mean_v before_o the_o king_n happy_a return_n whether_o solomon_n have_v not_o sufficient_a authority_n to_o put_v out_o abiathar_n from_o the_o priesthood_n and_o put_v zadock_n in_o his_o place_n or_o whether_o any_o may_v modest_o say_v such_o must_v preach_v and_o that_o those_o be_v schismatic_n and_o usurper_n that_o do_v exercise_v their_o office_n according_a to_o law_n in_o the_o place_n of_o such_o as_o be_v remove_v by_o the_o virtue_n of_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n of_o unquestionable_a authority_n and_o we_o must_v preach_v though_o the_o law_n forbid_v we_o as_o for_o dr._n gunning_n dr._n wild_n preach_v fourteen_o or_o fifteen_o year_n ago_o which_o you_o so_o often_o hint_n at_o it_o be_v sufficient_o know_v it_o be_v in_o such_o a_o time_n when_o the_o case_n be_v far_o otherwise_o both_o with_o the_o church_n and_o state_n in_o many_o notorious_a circumstance_n both_o as_o to_o person_n law_n government_n and_o worship_n and_o they_o can_v easy_o answer_v their_o so_o do_v if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n too_o much_o below_o the_o eminency_n both_o of_o their_o person_n and_o place_n we_o must_v proceed_v chap._n xi_o provision_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o assumption_n by_o four_o proposition_n that_o schism_n be_v a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o a_o true_a church_n and_o what_o separation_n from_o a_o true_a church_n be_v and_o when_o it_o be_v causeless_a have_v at_o large_a appear_v and_o there_o seem_v nothing_o leave_v to_o prevent_v or_o remove_v the_o charge_n of_o schism_n from_o the_o practice_n we_o oppose_v but_o to_o plead_v either_o that_o our_o church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n or_o that_o you_o be_v not_o of_o they_o and_o owe_v they_o no_o communion_n or_o that_o you_o do_v not_o separate_a from_o they_o or_o if_o you_o do_v you_o have_v cause_n sufficient_a and_o your_o separation_n be_v not_o rash_a or_o groundless_a that_o the_o contrary_a to_o all_o these_o be_v the_o very_a truth_n i_o be_o now_o to_o manifest_v the_o proposition_n according_o be_v these_o four_o pro._n 1._o that_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n be_v true_a church_n 2._o that_o the_o people_n of_o england_n be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v member_n of_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n 3._o that_o the_o present_a practice_n of_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o they_o be_v separation_n 4._o that_o such_o separation_n be_v rash_a and_o without_o just_a ground_n and_o all_o these_o shall_v be_v prove_v not_o only_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o the_o judgement_n or_o other_o but_o from_o the_o public_a judgement_n of_o the_o former_a nonconformist_n and_o presbyterian_o and_o then_o i_o hope_v my_o bold_a undertake_n will_v be_v find_v excusable_a chap._n xii_o parochial_a congregation_n true_a church_n his_o exception_n especial_o about_o parish_n bound_n examine_v first_o i_o affirm_v that_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n be_v true_a church_n they_o have_v the_o matter_n of_o true_a church_n profess_v christian_n baptise_a they_o have_v the_o fâ—rm_n of_o true_a church_n be_v society_n of_o such_o as_o ames_n say_v in_o order_n to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o these_o fix_a and_o state_v and_o ordinary_o assemble_v actual_o together_o for_o that_o end_n according_a to_o our_o author_n they_o have_v general_o both_o the_o essential_a and_o constituent_a part_n of_o true_a church_n pastor_n to_o govern_v and_o people_n to_o be_v govern_v by_o they_o in_o order_n to_o god_n glory_n and_o their_o salvation_n and_o as_o their_o end_n so_o the_o mean_n and_o their_o work_n in_o their_o public_a assembly_n be_v such_o as_o be_v proper_a and_o peculiar_a unto_o and_o true_a and_o undoubted_a indication_n and_o note_n of_o true_a church_n the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o their_o ordinary_a attendance_n thereupon_o in_o know_v public_a and_o fix_v place_n consecrate_v and_o set_v a_o part_n for_o that_o end_n wherein_o also_o there_o be_v nothing_o practise_v much_o less_o allow_v that_o be_v contrary_a to_o these_o mean_n or_o do_v pervert_v that_o end_n or_o with_o any_o pretence_n or_o colour_n of_o reason_n can_v be_v think_v to_o destroy_v their_o be_v or_o their_o truth_n as_o church_n of_o god_n for_o this_o we_o have_v abundant_a suffrage_n voluntary_o give_v by_o nonconformity_n itself_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o that_o not_o only_o in_o the_o acknowledgement_n but_o even_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o they_o against_o their_o enemy_n of_o the_o separation_n and_o what_o need_v more_o if_o mr._n ball_n mr._n hildersham_n of_o old_a and_o mr._n bagshaw_n and_o his_o friend_n the_o answerer_n be_v hear_v for_o the_o rest_n mr._n ball_n be_v express_v for_o himself_o and_o his_o brethren_n the_o nonconformist_n say_v he_o can_v not_o only_o acknowledge_v but_o prove_v the_o religion_n and_o worship_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o be_v of_o god_n not_o by_o petty_a reason_n and_o colourable_a 3._o ans_fw-fr to_o can._n part_n 2._o p_o 3._o show_n which_o they_o leave_v to_o they_o which_o maintain_v a_o bad_a cause_n but_o by_o pregnant_a evidence_n from_o the_o word_n of_o truth_n even_o by_o plain_a text_n of_o scripture_n and_o sound_a reâ—son_n deduce_v therefrom_o against_o which_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v never_o prevail_v mr._n hildersham_n come_v not_o a_o
none_o can_v except_v against_o but_o all_o this_o while_n there_o be_v no_o room_n make_v for_o separation_n the_o nonconformist_n never_o allow_v this_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o mr._n baxter_n tell_v we_o have_v not_o a_o word_n to_o that_o purpose_n obj._n but_o we_o be_v trouble_v again_o with_o his_o last_o refuge_n which_o attempt_v we_o every_o where_o your_o church_n be_v allow_v and_o communion_n with_o they_o when_o we_o have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o do_v better_o but_o to_o serve_v god_n better_o we_o may_v leave_v your_o church_n and_o gather_v other_o answ_n this_o have_v pirkt_v up_o to_o my_o trouble_n two_o or_o three_o time_n already_o i_o will_v now_o give_v it_o such_o a_o blow_n as_o i_o hope_v to_o hear_v on_o it_o no_o more_o 1._o if_o we_o may_v not_o refuse_v communion_n with_o our_o own_o particular_a church_n while_o we_o can_v do_v it_o without_o sin_n the_o only_a condition_n allow_v by_o all_o that_o be_v pure_a nonconformist_n yea_o and_o by_o the_o very_a brownist_n themselves_o than_o this_o pretence_n be_v vain_a but_o you_o grant_v you_o may_v continue_v such_o communion_n with_o the_o parish_n without_o sin_n by_o the_o tenor_n of_o the_o objection_n 2._o this_o objection_n extend_v not_o only_o to_o the_o change_n of_o the_o minister_n but_o of_o the_o very_a worship_n the_o public_a place_n of_o assemble_v and_o the_o parochial_a bound_n of_o church_n which_o as_o in_o the_o nature_n and_o consequence_n of_o the_o thing_n themselves_o be_v very_o dangerous_a so_o they_o be_v all_o quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o reason_n and_o practice_v of_o former_a nonconformist_n they_o may_v think_v they_o have_v reason_n sometime_o to_o do_v better_o but_o they_o never_o mean_v it_o in_o any_o way_n contrary_a to_o the_o public_a worship_n and_o assembly_n but_o only_o in_o some_o other_o parish_n church_n 3._o it_o be_v in_o effect_v the_o same_o excuse_n that_o the_o brownist_n have_v for_o their_o separation_n only_o not_o quite_o so_o considerable_a they_o complain_v thing_n be_v bad_a and_o you_o will_v have_v they_o better_o and_o therefore_o separate_v as_o they_o do_v 3._o the_o very_a same_o plea_n that_o the_o independent_o use_v in_o other_o word_n more_o plausable_a to_o their_o purpose_n namely_o pretence_n of_o disorder_n in_o the_o church_n and_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n and_o yet_o more_o near_o to_o the_o present_a pretence_n that_o they_o may_v worship_v with_o pure_a worship_n all_o which_o mr._n cawdry_n the_o patron_n of_o presbytery_n have_v take_v notice_n of_o and_o answer_v to_o dr._n owen_n bold_o appeal_n the_o dr._n in_o the_o point_n as_o i_o do_v my_o answerer_n in_o his_o word_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o his_o own_o consideration_n whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o 142._o in_o dep_v further_o p_o 142._o people_n that_o be_v member_n of_o true_a church_n as_o we_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v 〈◊〉_d upon_o some_o disorder_n in_o a_o church_n or_o pretence_n of_o reform_v themselves_o to_o separate_v from_o that_o church_n and_o to_o erect_v another_o when_o as_o they_o have_v do_v their_o duty_n to_o reform_v it_o in_o those_o disorder_n notwithstanding_o which_o they_o may_v without_o sin_n communicate_v with_o that_o church_n but_o rather_o to_o break_v true_a church_n into_o piece_n than_o to_o bear_v with_o some_o inconvenience_n and_o i_o desire_v a_o precedent_n of_o such_o a_o practice_n in_o scripture_n or_o story_n and_o as_o he_o say_v so_o do_v i_o but_o the_o pretence_n of_o worship_v god_n better_a and_o therefore_o they_o may_v gather_v a_o pure_a church_n out_o of_o a_o true_a church_n the_o presbyterian_a seem_v to_o deride_v it_o as_o not_o worthy_a 198._o ind_n schy_n p._n 198._o a_o serious_a consideration_n or_o answer_n be_v there_o say_v he_o any_o institution_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o must_v gather_v member_n out_o of_o true_a church_n to_o make_v a_o pure_a church_n if_o so_o it_o be_v 4._o but_o the_o sting_n be_v in_o the_o tail_n gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o parish_n that_o they_o may_v serve_v god_n better_o be_v a_o intolerable_a principle_n and_o practice_n it_o plain_o put_v raines_n into_o the_o people_n hand_n to_o govern_v and_o reform_v themselves_o without_o their_o bishop_n or_o pastor_n which_o methinks_v mr._n baxter_n shall_v not_o like_v very_o well_o and_o without_o the_o civil-magistrate_n which_o the_o presbyterian_o can_v not_o endure_v to_o reform_v themselves_o i_o say_v without_o the_o order_n of_o any_o kind_n of_o governor_n not_o only_o in_o one_o single_a parish_n but_o throughout_o the_o kingdom_n nor_o only_a to_o reform_v abuse_n in_o administration_n but_o in_o the_o worship_n and_o government_n yea_o even_o to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o our_o church-state_n and_o the_o bound_n and_o place_n of_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n &_o the_o set_n up_o of_o other_o church_n other_o minister_n and_o another_o worship_n and_o government_n throughout_o the_o kingdom_n so_o far_o as_o this_o rule_n take_v for_o the_o rule_n in_o its_o practical_a nature_n and_o use_n be_v general_a and_o if_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o one_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o another_o and_o of_o all_o to_o worship_n god_n better_o in_o this_o new_a way_n and_o consequent_o all_o be_v bind_v to_o worship_n god_n better_o and_o all_o must_v join_v in_o these_o new_a congregation_n while_o the_o bishop_n and_o minister_n and_o temple_n be_v leave_v useless_a and_o there_o be_v no_o way_n which_o our_o author_n can_v think_v of_o to_o prevent_v &_o stop_v this_o deluge_n but_o the_o people_n prudence_n and_o how_o likely_a that_o be_v to_o do_v it_o let_v the_o wise_a consider_v be_v ever_o nonconformist_a or_o presbyterian_a before_o of_o this_o opinion_n or_o any_o one_o that_o be_v not_o a_o downright_a separatist_n dr._n owen_n have_v say_v that_o if_o a_o man_n can_v prevail_v to_o have_v the_o church_n reform_v he_o may_v dispose_v of_o himself_o as_o to_o particular_a church_n communion_n to_o his_o best_a advantage_n one_o will_v think_v this_o be_v modest_o speak_v in_o comparison_n yet_o observe_v how_o the_o presbyterian_a take_v he_o up_o this_o be_v liberality_n enough_o and_o dictator-like_a speak_v do_v not_o 190._o ind._n schys_n p_o 189_o 190._o this_o open_a a_o door_n to_o all_o confusion_n in_o church_n and_o state_n and_o give_v every_o man_n as_o well_o as_o any_o liberty_n if_o they_o judge_v any_o thing_n amiss_o in_o church_n or_o state_n to_o turn_v reformer_n if_o superior_n can_v or_o will_v not_o reform_v it_o in_o a_o state_n or_o natiâ—nal_n church_n as_o that_o of_o the_o jew_n be_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o few_o man_n when_o state_n and_o church_n be_v all_o corrupt_a to_o go_v and_o reform_v both_o because_o they_o that_o have_v the_o power_n in_o their_o hand_n either_o can_v not_o or_o will_v not_o reform_v i_o think_v i_o may_v safe_o say_v this_o be_v a_o anabaptistical_n munster_n principle_n at_o the_o bottom_n so_o he_o beside_o the_o rule_n have_v run_v equal_o in_o it_o against_o the_o reformer_n themselves_o every_o sect_n will_v plead_v the_o same_o liberty_n to_o serve_v god_n better_o and_z as_o mr._n baxter_n have_v well_o item_v you_o separation_n will_v ruin_v the_o separate_a church_n themselves_o 50_o defence_n of_o cure_n p._n 50_o and_o not_o at_o all_o vary_v from_o their_o own_o light_n by_o which_o they_o ascend_v unto_o separation_n it_o will_v admit_v of_o no_o consistency_n party_n will_v arise_v in_o the_o separate_a church_n and_o separate_v again_o from_o they_o till_o they_o be_v dissolve_v as_o experience_n witness_v but_o because_o my_o author_n speak_v of_o gather_v church_n for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_n year_n after_o christ_n i_o shall_v not_o disturb_v he_o by_o inquire_v out_o of_o what_o church_n they_o be_v gather_v only_o shall_v give_v he_o a_o presbiterian_o expostulation_n and_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n will_v he_o call_v that_o a_o peaceable_a proceed_n which_o be_v do_v without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n 1â—1_n cawd_z indep_n further_o p._n 1â—1_n and_o to_o the_o disturbance_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o nation_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o in_o the_o first_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n people_n may_v by_o their_o own_o free_a consent_n join_v to_o walk_v together_o &c_n &c_n be_v this_o course_n tolerable_a in_o settle_a church_n to_o the_o confusion_n and_o overthrow_n of_o the_o very_a constitution_n of_o our_o church_n chap._n fourteen_o the_o present_a practice_n plain_a separation_n objection_n by_o the_o answerer_n consider_v the_o present_a practice_n of_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o church_n be_v separation_n though_o our_o church_n be_v true_a church_n and_o the_o person_n concern_v be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v member_n of_o they_o yet_o do_v they_o proper_o separate_v from_o they_o
schysm_n it_o be_v not_o a_o differ_a faith_n but_o a_o break_v the_o fellowship_n of_o communion_n which_o make_v man_n schysmaticks_n yet_o more_o plain_o schysma_n est_fw-la eadem_fw-la opiniantem_fw-la &_o eodem_fw-la ritu_fw-la utentem_fw-la solo_n congregationis_fw-la delectari_fw-la dissidio_fw-la schysm_n be_v when_o a_o man_n that_o profess_v the_o same_o faith_n and_o worship_n be_v delight_v only_o with_o the_o difference_n of_o a_o assembly_n or_o congregation_n you_o may_v have_v advise_v this_o father_n a_o little_a better_o have_v he_o be_v now_o alive_a but_o it_o seem_v your_o objection_n be_v then_o urge_v by_o some_o that_o you_o be_v loath_a to_o own_o and_o this_o same_o notion_n of_o schysm_n keep_v its_o ground_n in_o the_o church_n from_o st._n aug._n to_o beza_n time_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sive_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d est_fw-la etc._n etc._n schysm_n or_o division_n say_v beza_n 10._o an._n in_o 1._o co._n 1._o 10._o be_v this_o when_o man_n be_v so_o addict_v to_o some_o man_n or_o to_o some_o outward_a rite_n that_o though_o they_o do_v agree_v in_o the_o chief_a point_n of_o religion_n yet_o they_o be_v estrange_v in_o their_o mind_n and_o engage_v themselves_o into_o party_n and_o faction_n thus_o beza_n and_o yet_o he_o pass_v for_o a_o presbyterian_a and_o so_o do_v mr._n new_a come_fw-mi who_o use_v all_o these_o place_n of_o authority_n to_o my_o very_a purpose_n against_o the_o independent_o who_o will_v it_o seem_v have_v excuse_v their_o schysm_n from_o the_o moderation_n of_o their_o principle_n and_o the_o soundness_n of_o their_o doctrine_n he_o therefore_o shall_v be_v the_o next_o presbyterian_a that_o we_o shall_v produce_v 14._o new_o come_v sr._n at_o paul_n p._n 14._o for_o this_o notion_n of_o schysm_n not_o necessary_o inclusive_a of_o the_o brownist_n rigid_a principle_n he_o tell_v we_o plain_o as_o i_o observe_v in_o my_o other_o book_n their_o hold_v one_o head_n and_o one_o faith_n with_o we_o do_v not_o excuse_v they_o from_o be_v guilty_a of_o breach_n of_o unity_n and_o downright_a schysm_n as_o long_o as_o they_o hold_v not_o one_o body_n one_o baptism_n as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v let_v your_o principle_n be_v what_o they_o will_v you_o be_v downright_a schysmaticks_n while_o you_o separate_v and_o break_v our_o unity_n as_o for_o separation_n mr._n baxter_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o mischief_n 1669._o ep_v to_o his_o rest_n print_v 1669._o of_o it_o lie_v not_o in_o the_o bare_a error_n of_o judgement_n but_o in_o the_o unchristian_a and_o church-dissolving_a division_n and_o alienation_n which_o thence_o follow_v yea_o let_v we_o know_v the_o man_n that_o do_v ever_o direct_o or_o by_o any_o clear_a consequence_n to_o be_v draw_v from_o his_o word_n print_v such_o a_o notion_n of_o schysm_n as_o include_v the_o brownist_n rigid_a principle_n about_o our_o church_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o nature_n of_o it_o examine_v cameron_n ames_n hales_n brinsly_n and_o if_o any_o other_o be_v dear_a to_o you_o and_o see_v whether_o their_o definition_n take_v in_o any_o such_o thing_n or_o can_v bear_v such_o a_o exposition_n as_o you_o will_v put_v upon_o they_o see_v how_o mr._n cawdrey_n and_o the_o london_n minister_n at_o zion_n college_n deal_n with_o the_o independent_o in_o the_o point_n and_o whether_o you_o can_v possible_o persuade_v yourself_o to_o continue_v in_o the_o beleif_n that_o for_o the_o reason_n you_o have_v allege_v the_o nonconformist_n may_v gather_v church_n and_o not_o be_v separatist_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o before_o the_o year_n 1660._o or_o any_o of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n you_o may_v see_v their_o judgement_n in_o general_n by_o a_o few_o quotation_n out_o of_o their_o writing_n chap._n xviii_o testimony_n of_o nonconformist_n for_o the_o same_o give_v i_o leave_v tousher_n in_o this_o worthy_a verdict_n with_o a_o argument_n after_o your_o own_o mode_n i_o will_v undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o nonconformist_n both_o ancient_a and_o modern_a before_o 1660._o hold_v gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o church_n unlawful_a and_o schysmatical_a and_o that_o absolute_o without_o any_o reference_n to_o the_o principle_n upon_o which_o it_o be_v do_v much_o less_o the_o brownistical_a do_v you_o prove_v afterward_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o they_o suppose_v your_o new_a distinction_n and_o evasion_n or_o that_o they_o at_o any_o time_n let_v word_n drop_v from_o they_o signify_v a_o allowance_n of_o separation_n from_o our_o church_n and_o set_v up_o new_a one_o upon_o such_o weak_a ground_n as_o you_o stand_v upon_o mr._n ball_n i_o have_v mention_v in_o ball._n mr._n ball._n my_o last_o as_o one_o of_o the_o old_a puritan_n that_o have_v write_v for_o communion_n with_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n you_o tell_v i_o subtle_o that_o he_o speak_v not_o against_o nonconformist_n preach_n and_o that_o be_v a_o answer_n but_o i_o must_v now_o add_v that_o that_o great_a nonconformist_n do_v not_o plead_v for_o our_o communion_n as_o lawful_a but_o in_o a_o sort_n necessary_a and_o that_o to_o separate_v from_o we_o be_v a_o sinful_a separation_n he_o tell_v you_o roundly_o that_o such_o separation_n be_v the_o wound_n of_o trial_n ep_v to_o his_o 1._o vol._n friendly_a trial_n the_o church_n yea_o whosoever_o seperate_v from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n seperate_v from_o christ_n in_o that_o respect_n voluntary_a separation_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n and_o the_o prayer_n he_o reckon_v upon_o more_o than_o hear_v sermon_n of_o the_o congregation_n what_o be_v but_o a_o willing_a excommunicate_v of_o ourselves_o from_o the_o visible_a token_n of_o the_o lord_n presence_n and_o love_n be_v it_o not_o a_o great_a sin_n in_o member_n to_o deprive_v themselves_o then_o in_o the_o church_n governor_n to_o deprive_v other_o of_o the_o same_o communion_n for_o small_a occasion_n you_o see_v he_o make_v the_o smallness_n of_o the_o occasion_n of_o separation_n to_o be_v emphasis_n and_o aggravation_n of_o it_o again_o more_o smart_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o cann_n thus_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n his_o ministry_n epistle_n epistle_n and_o worship_n of_o which_o sort_n i_o shall_v prove_v that_o to_o be_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o which_o i_o plead_v mean_v the_o church_n of_o england_n tend_v not_o to_o the_o overthrow_n of_o antichrist_n but_o to_o the_o rent_v of_o the_o church_n the_o disgrace_n of_o religion_n the_o advancement_n of_o pride_n schysm_n contention_n the_o offence_n of_o the_o weak_a the_o grief_n of_o the_o godly_a who_o be_v better_a settle_v the_o harden_v of_o the_o wicked_a and_o the_o recovery_n or_o rise_v again_o of_o antichrist_n 2._o let_v worthy_a mr._n hildersham_n lay_v down_o his_o grave_n and_o weighty_a point_n clear_o and_o bold_o and_o like_o 149._o hildersham_n upon_o 4._o joh._n p._n 149._o himself_o it_o be_v this_o those_o assembly_n that_o enjoy_v the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n of_o salvation_n though_o they_o have_v many_o corruption_n remain_v in_o they_o be_v to_o be_v acknowledge_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o such_o as_o none_o of_o the_o faithful_a may_v make_v separation_n from_o he_o will_v not_o allow_v you_o upon_o pretence_n of_o purity_n and_o serve_v god_n better_a in_o your_o way_n to_o separate_v and_o gather_v church_n not_o any_o one_o none_o of_o the_o faithful_a he_o proceed_v to_o prove_v it_o large_o and_o it_o may_v be_v well_o know_v how_o severe_a he_o be_v against_o the_o faithful_a that_o will_v ordinary_o leave_v their_o honest_a minister_n to_o hear_v those_o that_o be_v more_o able_a upon_o pretence_n of_o profit_v better_a by_o they_o which_o be_v yet_o the_o best_a plea_n the_o present_a separation_n have_v for_o itself_o 3._o m._n calvin_n speak_v to_o the_o point_n with_o no_o mean_a authority_n 12._o calvin_n insti_fw-la li._n 4._o c_o 1_o sect_n 9_o 10._o 12._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o wheresoever_o the_o gospel_n be_v pure_o preach_v and_o the_o sacrament_n administer_v according_a to_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n there_o appear_v neither_o a_o deceitful_a nor_o doubtful_a face_n of_o a_o church_n of_o which_o no_o man_n may_v either_o despise_v the_o authority_n or_o refuse_v the_o admonition_n or_o resist_v the_o counsel_n or_o mock_v at_o the_o correction_n much_o less_o depart_v from_o it_o break_v in_o sunder_o the_o unity_n of_o it_o and_o go_v unpunished_a for_o the_o lord_n so_o high_o esteem_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o count_v he_o for_o a_o traitorous_a runaway_n and_o forsake_v of_o religion_n whosoever_o shall_v stubburn_o estrange_v himself_o from_o any_o christian_a fellowship_n so_o that_o it_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o have_v the_o true_a ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n the_o fellowship_n of_o such_o a_o church_n be_v
i_o can_v show_v to_o have_v as_o many_o real_a soloecism_n in_o it_o as_o you_o have_v note_v in_o my_o whole_a book_n but_o i_o be_o not_o careful_a for_o these_o thing_n you_o deal_v more_o hardly_o with_o i_o when_o you_o lay_v presumption_n and_o cruelty_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n at_o my_o door_n can_v i_o imagine_v that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o desire_v to_o escape_v the_o penalty_n of_o the_o law_n but_o erect_v separate_a church_n to_o themselves_o but_o i_o must_v be_v a_o ithacian_a master_n and_o make_v you_o feel_v my_o meaning_n and_o give_v occasion_n to_o cry_v out_o as_o you_o do_v but_z my_o brother_n what_o good_a will_v our_o suffering_n do_v you_o do_v you_o feel_v yourself_o ever_o the_o more_o at_o liberty_n when_o we_o be_v in_o the_o common-goales_a be_v you_o the_o full_a because_o some_o nonconformist_n want_n bread_n be_v this_o reasonable_a charitable_a or_o candid_a what_o ground_n have_v you_o for_o it_o either_o in_o my_o word_n or_o deed_n will_v you_o not_o think_v you_o have_v wrong_v i_o if_o some_o nonconformist_n shall_v tell_v you_o that_o i_o have_v run_v some_o hazard_n and_o suffer_v in_o my_o name_n for_o their_o liberty_n and_o if_o a_o peaceable_a silence_a minister_n shall_v testify_v that_o he_o and_o his_o family_n have_v many_o year_n together_o have_v the_o great_a part_n of_o their_o livelihood_n from_o my_o charity_n but_o i_o must_v forbear_v though_o you_o provoke_v i_o lest_o you_o shall_v have_v just_a cause_n to_o impeach_v my_o modesty_n and_o think_v you_o have_v cause_n to_o say_v that_o i_o in_o a_o sense_n call_v you_o persecutor_n but_o who_o be_o i_o when_o alas_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o conform_v clergy_n though_o you_o have_v say_v that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v pious_a able_a and_o faithful_a in_o their_o place_n yet_o you_o more_o than_o seem_v to_o load_v they_o p._n 74._o with_o the_o unchristian_a like_o charge_n of_o perjury_n perfidiousness_n and_o persecution_n proud_a contend_v who_o shall_v be_v great_a and_o covenant_v never_o in_o certain_a point_n to_o obey_v christ_n against_o the_o world_n and_o the_o flesh_n and_o you_o can_v but_o know_v this_o be_v no_o way_n argumentative_a unless_o you_o design_v to_o weaken_v the_o affection_n of_o the_o people_n towards_o we_o and_o so_o to_o prepare_v they_o for_o a_o separation_n which_o i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o believe_v for_o that_o i_o find_v you_o in_o many_o other_o place_n so_o earnest_o persuade_v to_o the_o contrary_n sir_n i_o do_v not_o presume_v to_o advise_v you_o but_o sir_n if_o you_o shall_v think_v to_o write_v any_o more_o upon_o this_o matter_n let_v i_o beseech_v you_o serious_o to_o consider_v whether_o your_o own_o principle_n and_o the_o present_a vile_a practice_n of_o separation_n contrary_a thereunto_o will_v not_o more_o worthy_o and_o more_o seasonable_o draw_v your_o study_n another_o way_n i_o know_v that_o the_o peace_n and_o reputation_n and_o integrity_n of_o our_o parochial_a church_n be_v dear_a to_o you_o however_o you_o be_v tempt_v to_o mistake_v i_o and_o to_o let_v some_o thing_n fly_v some_o thing_n that_o may_v chance_v to_o prejudice_v they_o more_o than_o you_o will_v there_o be_v two_o principle_n scatter_v up_o and_o down_o your_o answerer_n that_o i_o here_o main_o aim_v at_o and_o into_o these_o indeed_o all_o its_o strength_n resolve_v 1._o that_o the_o nonconformist_n must_v preach_v 2._o that_o to_o the_o end_n the_o people_n may_v serve_v god_n better_o they_o may_v gather_v themselves_o into_o other_o church_n the_o first_o of_o these_o will_v not_o concern_v i_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o my_o other_o book_n neither_o do_v the_o allowance_n of_o it_o draw_v a_o necessity_n of_o gather_v church_n as_o we_o have_v make_v to_o appear_v above_o the_o latter_a of_o they_o indeed_o lie_v at_o the_o bottom_n of_o all_o that_o you_o say_v against_o i_o and_o i_o have_v often_o speak_v to_o it_o even_o where_o ever_o i_o meet_v it_o i_o be_o now_o make_v my_o petition_n in_o the_o church_n behalf_n that_o you_o will_v lay_v to_o heart_n the_o certain_a division_n and_o confusion_n that_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o practice_n of_o both_o these_o principle_n joint_o receive_v and_o improve_v by_o the_o skill_n of_o divider_n and_o the_o cunning_a craftiness_n of_o such_o as_o lie_v in_o wait_n for_o that_o purpose_n the_o first_o of_o these_o that_o they_o must_v preach_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o say_v as_o it_o be_v the_o present_a engine_n for_o division_n be_v a_o plain_a cheat_n put_v upon_o the_o world_n and_o not_o to_o be_v countenance_v by_o a_o honest_a man_n they_o must_v preach_v but_o why_o because_o of_o the_o text_n because_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o people_n and_o last_o because_o of_o their_o relation_n to_o their_o old_a flock_n of_o each_o a_o little_a they_o must_v preach_v because_o the_o text_n say_v there_o be_v a_o necessity_n lay_v upon_o we_o and_o woe_n be_v to_o we_o if_o we_o do_v not_o preach_v ans_fw-fr but_o my_o brethren_n what_o if_o you_o have_v no_o opportunity_n and_o the_o church_n be_v all_o full_a must_v you_o preach_v still_o we_o have_v before_o note_v from_o mr._n baxter_n that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o opportunity_n there_o be_v no_o duty_n and_o consequent_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n no_o woe_n &_o be_v it_o not_o plain_a enough_o that_o while_o you_o have_v no_o particular_a flock_n especial_o while_o the_o law_n forbid_v you_o to_o have_v any_o you_o have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o preach_v public_o can_v have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o be_v so_o busy_a in_o another_o man_n diocese_n nor_o warrant_v in_o conscience_n without_o leave_n from_o the_o law_n which_o be_v still_o oblige_v notwithstanding_o &c_n &c_n and_o the_o licence_n of_o the_o bishop_n or_o the_o parochial_a minister_n to_o who_o people_n you_o will_v preach_v it_o ought_v to_o be_v remember_v this_o doctrine_n be_v perfect_a brownism_n and_o condemn_v as_o such_o by_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n who_o hold_v and_o defend_v against_o the_o brownist_n that_o though_o themselves_o be_v only_o suspend_v and_o have_v yet_o by_o law_n the_o possession_n of_o their_o place_n and_o no_o other_o can_v lay_v claim_n to_o their_o flock_n yet_o be_v only_o thus_o suspend_v they_o ought_v not_o to_o preach_v public_o to_o their_o own_o people_n whether_o suspend_v or_o degrade_v their_o doctrine_n be_v not_o the_o necessity_n to_o preach_v as_o you_o and_o the_o brownist_n say_v but_o to_o keep_v silent_a for_o so_o long_o say_v they_o as_o the_o bishop_n suspend_v and_o deprive_v according_a to_o law_n we_o account_v of_o the_o action_n herein_o as_o of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o church_n if_o they_o do_v otherwise_o we_o have_v liberty_n give_v we_o by_o the_o law_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o obj._n but_o we_o think_v in_o our_o conscience_n that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o silence_v be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o justify_v it_o this_o very_a objection_n also_o the_o brownist_n use_v to_o the_o nonconformist_n of_o old_a and_o receive_v this_o answer_n from_o they_o ans_fw-fr it_o lie_v say_v they_o in_o they_o to_o depose_v that_o may_v ordain_v and_o they_o may_v shut_v that_o may_v open_v and_o that_o as_o he_o may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n execute_v a_o ministry_n by_o the_o ordination_n and_o call_n of_o the_o church_n who_o be_v privy_a to_o himself_o of_o some_o unfitness_n if_o the_o church_n will_v press_v he_o to_o it_o so_o may_v he_o who_o be_v privy_a to_o himself_o of_o no_o fault_n that_o deserve_v deprivation_n cease_v from_o the_o execution_n of_o his_o ministry_n when_o he_o be_v press_v thereunto_o by_o the_o church_n and_o indeed_o if_o a_o guiltless_a person_n put_v out_o of_o his_o charge_n by_o the_o church_n authority_n may_v yet_o continue_v in_o it_o what_o proceed_n can_v there_o be_v against_o guilty_a person_n who_o in_o their_o own_o conceit_n be_v always_o guiltless_a or_o will_v at_o least_o pretend_v so_o to_o be_v see_v they_o also_o will_v be_v ready_a always_o to_o object_n against_o the_o church_n judgement_n that_o they_o be_v call_v of_o god_n and_o may_v not_o therefore_o give_v over_o the_o execution_n of_o their_o ministry_n at_o the_o will_n of_o man._n obj._n but_o how_o shall_v we_o answer_v the_o text_n woe_n be_v to_o we_o if_o we_o dâ—_n not_o preach_v thus_o also_o the_o brownist_n urge_v against_o the_o nonconformist_n and_o be_v thus_o solid_o answer_v ans_fw-fr the_o case_n now_o and_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n be_v far_o different_a first_o they_o that_o inhibit_v the_o apostle_n be_v know_v and_o profess_a enemy_n to_o the_o gospel_n second_o the_o apostle_n be_v charge_v not_o to_o teach_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o publish_v any_o part_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o