Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	church_n	receive_v	tradition_n	2,719	5	9.4211	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00596	The Fisher catched in his owne net	Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645.	1623 (1623)	STC 10732; ESTC S120857	13,298	32

Church of Rome 2. That no Scripture sense or translation thereof is authenticall vnlesse the same were receiued from the Romane Church 3. That the Romane Church onely was and is the authenticall custos of vnwritten traditions 4. That all generall Councels were called by the sole authoritie of the Pope and that he might ratifie and disanull whatsoeuer pleased him in them 5. That the Pope onely had power to canonize Saints 6. That the Pope had or hath power to depose Princes Proue all or any of these and we will neither carp nor cauill about names but answer directly without all delayes cuasions or tergiuersations M. Fisher. When you D. White or D. Featly haue proued your Church to be visible in all ages and named visible Protestants then I promise you to proue the visibilitie of the Catholike Romane Church but that is not done by you yet D. Featly It had been done but for your delayes and tergiuersations answer briefly and directly to my former argument and I will descend to my induction and produce the names of such eminent persons as in all ages haue maintained the substantiall points of faith in which we differ from your Romane Church That Church whose faith is the catholike and primitiue faith once giuen to the Saints without which none can be saued is so visible that the names of the professors in all ages may be shewed proued out of good authors But the Protestant Church is that Church whose faith is the catholicke and primitiue faith once giuen to the Saints without which none can be saued Ergo. The maior is ex concessis What say you to the minor M. Fisher. I distinguish the minor D. Featly Vpon what terme do you distinguish M. Fisher. I distinguish of the proposition not of any terme D. Featly Here is againe another straine of new Logicke to distinguish of a proposition and apply the distinction to no terme howsoeuer I am glad to heare you distinguish and not simply to denie that the Protestant faith is the Catholike primitiue faith Mark I beseech you you that are present that Mr. Fisher demurres vpon the proposition his conscience will not suffer him simply to denie that the Protestant faith is the Catholike primitiue faith we simply and flatly and in downright termes denie that your present Tridentine faith is the Catholike primitiue faith M. Fisher. I answered you before that your minor is false and impertinent D. Featly I haue proued already that it is pertinent what say you to the truth of it M. Sweet This is to diuert the question the question is not now whether our faith or yours be the catholicke primitiue faith but the question now is of the effect to wit the visibilitie of your Church which you ought to proue out of good authors D. Featly May not a man proue the effect by the cause Is there no other meanes to proue the effect but by naming men and producing authors for it M. Sweet An effect is posterius the question is about an effect therefore you ought to proue it à posteriori D. Featly What a reason is this May not an effect be proued by his cause Must an effect be needs proued by an effect or à posteriori because an effect is posterius M. Sweet Leaue these Logicke disputes bring the names of your Protestants that is it we expect D. Featly If I should relinquish my former argument to which yet you haue giuen no manner of answer you Mr. Fisher would report that I was nonplussed as you slandered D. White in a former conference who I tell you M. Fisher is able to teach vs both Whereto Mr. Fisher replied nothing To preuent all such misreports to the wrong of either it was moued by the hearers that is should be written downe by the common writer of the conference that both the Disputants being willing to proceed D. Featly was defired by the companie because it was late to produce the names of such Protestants as were extant before Luther in all ages This being written and subscribed by them both D. Featly proceeded to his induction D. Featly An Induction is a forme of argument in which we proceed from enumeration of particulars to conclude a generall after this manner It is so in this and this sic de caeteris Ergo it is so in all According to this forme of arguing thus I dispute The Protestant Church was so visible that the names of those who taught and beleeued the doctrine thereof may be produced in the first hundred yeares and second and third and fourth sic de caeteris Ergo it was so in all ages First I name those of the first age and I begin with him who is the beginner of all our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ blessed for euer at whose Name all knees must bow both in heauen and earth and vnder the earth at which words all the companie expressed an holy reuerence after Christ I name the twelue Apostles and Saint Paul and because there were few writers in the first age at least whose vndoubted works haue come to our hands I name onely I gnatius after the twelue Apostles and Saint Paul M. Fisher. These are enough for the first age Christ the twelue Apostles Saint Paul and Ignatius Here at the name of Ignatius some of M. Fishers side seemed very glad and confident saying We are sure enough that Ignatius is on our side D. Featly I meane not the new Ignatius Loyola but Ignatius the Martyr betweene whom there is more difference in qualitie then distance in time M. Fisher. Name of all the ages or else you do nothing D. Featly I cannot name all at once wil you haue me name men of so many ages with one breath will you haue me eate my whole dinner at a bit can I name twelue seuerally but I must name first one then two then three and so forward I name as I said before in the first age for our Religion our blessed Lord and Sauiour the Founder of all Religion the twelue Apostles and after them St. Paul and Ignatius the Martyr For the second age I name Iustin Martyr Clemens Alexandrinus and Saint Cyprian and I begin first with Christ his Apostles M. Fisher. You shall not begin with Christ and his Apostles D. Featly You are not to make my Induction I will begin with Christ and his Apostles where should I begin but in the first age and with the first of it shall I make a catalogue of the Christian Church according to the seueral ages and leaue out Christ and his Apostles in the first age Answer first to them and I will proceed to others M. Fisher. Name the rest in all ages and then I will answer you D. Featly First answer to the first age and then I will proceed to the second If you grant me the first age then I will proceed presently to the second otherwise I must stay in the first M. Fisher. Vnlesse you giue me a catalogue of names throughout all ages I will not answer D. Featly Will you not answer Christ and his Apostles in the first place M. Fisher. I will not before you haue named the rest D. Featly Will you not be tried by Christ and his Apostles That which Christ and his Apostles taught in the first age was taught by succeeding Christians in all ages this is confest on both sides But the doctrine of the Protestants was taught by Christ and his Apostles in the first age Ergo. Answer this Syllogisme if you will not answer my former Induction M. Fisher. I will not answer you any thing till you haue made your catalogue D. Featly Mr. Fisher I charge you as you will answer it before Christ himselfe at the dreadfull day of iudgement answer now vpon your conscience before all this companie whether you beleeue that Christ and his Apostles taught our faith or yours this is the maine point of all answer directly to my Induction Notwithstanding this deep charge M. Fisher still refused to answer to the argument of instance in Christ and his Apostles whereupon diuers thereupon expressing their distast at such refusall desired D. Featly to surceasse telling him that he ought not to talke any longer with such a one who refused to answer Christ and his Apostles And so the Conference brake vp This Conference though it tooke not that progresse which was desired by reason of the Iesuites tergiuersation not permitting Dr. Featly to come to the ripenesse of any argument yet it hath not bin fruitlesse for since that time the aforesaid Mr. Buggs came to Sir Humfrey Lynde and gaue him many thanks for the said meeting and assured him that he was well resolued now of his Religion that he saw plainly it was but the Iesuits bragging without proofes and whereas formerly by their Sophistical perswasions he was in some doubt of the Church he is now so fully satisfied of the truth of our Religion that he doth vtterly disclaim the Popish priests companie and their doctrine also Vpon Monday following M. Fisher and M. Sweet came vnsent for to the house of Sir Humfrey Lynde to know of him whether the parties that had formerly conferred would proceed or no who answered that if they might confer priuatly with leaue in some other place they would easily make good their cause and so they parted without further resolution of place or meeting Since which time notice being giuen by my Lord Bishop of Durham of his Maiesties pleasure that the truth of the late Conference should be certified to his Maiestie and further meetings staid a Romanist hath confidently auerred to Mr. Buggs that our side hath laboured to haue all future meetings touching this occasion forbidden because we durst not nor are not able to make good our assertions against them And this is the true relation of the Conference it selfe together with the occasion thereof and the effect which it produced FINIS D. Featly D. Featly A Romanist standing by The same Romanist standing by A Protestant sitting by Minor probatur All this was spoken but not committed to the writer Tollitur distinctio These words were also spoken but not set down by the writer