hee saw the Saints that sprung up under his Doctrine is the Gospell or Protestant Religion the worse therefore An â—as for the other part of your rule of triall the making of Factions let the Magistrate spare none where it is found no upon his perill and as he will answer it before the Lord let him not spare any for this indeed is the main end of his authority to keep the people committed unto him in peace and to be a nursing father unto the Church if any be in his dominion but who are these Faction-makers surely not the meek in the earth the weapons of whose warfare are arguments reasons and Scripture and who would have men be at peace with all men not men that are gentle sofe striving only with the cords of a man viz. reason and understanding and not with the whips of Horses and the goads of Oxen. Were not the Bishops a factious generation And wherein did it appeare was it not by their insinuations into the Magistracie to have their Wayes maintained urged and prest upon men by a law by fines imprisonments banishments whips and pillories by procuring Lawes and Canons Decrees and Injunctions to presse men against the truth their judgements and consciences unto obedience thereof and hath not this State-troubling generation raised up and kindled that consuming fire that is like now to devour the kingdome Well if this evill spirit of distraction contention and faction be found in the Congregationall party let not the eye of the Magistrate spare them but let him take heed that he do not condemne the innocent and justifie the guilty Now the Lord in mercy conjure that spirit of Faction where ever it be found and give the Magistracie of this poor kingdome wisdome to observe where it is and prevent all dangers thereby that this distressed Nation may flourish in truth and peace The Conclusion THese are the Arguments or doubts that for the present I desire some satisfaction in that my judgement and conscience may be settled Let it not be thought that I am making a party against them or that I think my Arguments cannot be answered I am better perswaded of their holinesse and abilities then to think they will take up any opinions but they can satisfie any equall minded man that asks them a reason of such their faith nor yet let it be thought that I have followed these objections with a spirit that intends not to receive satisfaction I call him to witnesse before whose Tribunall I and all the purposes of my heart must stand naked one day for to be judged my very heart if I understand mine own heart stands open to receive all the truths of God whoever brings them with what externall inconveniences soever they come accompanied I have urged my doubts it may be thought with somewhat too much earnestnesse and heat I am sure with all singlenesse of heart aiming at nothing but to know more of the mind and Way of God that God may be more glorified in me Grace be with us all Your true friend to love and serve you and yours in Christ Jesus c. REPLY THese are the Answers which for the present I humbly return unto your Arguments which I must confesse again have been tendered with more sweetnesse and candidnesse of language phrase and expression then ever yet I did reade any arguments of this nature before wherein if I have shewed that which is indeed mine own viz. weaknesses insufficiencies and mistakes I hope the power of Christ in you viz. the spirit of love will cover them all and here again I must renue my former request viz. the letting slip if any thing be weake and your more serious thoughts upon that which is more valid and considerable to presume your satisfaction would be too great ambition though to assure my self of your acceptation is my perfect confidence Sir I leave what I have here tendered unto your prudent consideration desiring the Almighty to leade us all into the wayes of truth and peace knitting our hearts together in love and so guiding us by his counsels to bring us to his glory which is the hearty prayers Sir Of yours in all Christian love and sincerity J. P. FINIS
Saints together in the spirit of which love I come to your arguments Fourthly That no case is so cleer but some question may be raised about it to which present satisfaction may not be given it is sufficient if the main things things be justified ARGUMENT I. LEt it be granted that the Churches in the Apostles time were Congregationall for all nationall profession in the world was either Jewish or Heathenish yet if they were to be the president of the form of Church-ordering and government for ever under the Gospell how could all the Churches the Apostles had constituted up and down the world yea and all particular Christians be so corrupted as to suffer the government and worship of God to be taken from them so easily as that none that I can heare of are found upon record to have stood up for Christ and the truth but Nationall-Church-government was brought in and we cannot learn that there was any scuffle on contestation against it I do not think there can be named one truth of God that Antichrist or any other Heretique fought against but t is possible with a little search or study to name those peâ—sons that disputed or wâ—it on suffered in the defence of it and stood in the gap to keep out the error only in this all the Christian Churches in the world suffer'd the government of Christ which is so deare to the heart of a Saint to be destroyed and a false Antichristian government and worship to be obtruded on them and all sides are silent in the businesse Where is the Scribe is there no Disputer no Martyr to be found what not one that retained any spark of zeal for Christ that after ages could speak of either oâ—th approbation or detestation for willingly suffering shame spoyling of goods banishment death rather then Christ should be pull'd down in his worship and a Nationall false Church-government set up in the roome of it I cannot but wonder that all Christian Churches should fall at once into such a dead sleep to suffer the evill One thus to pluck up and thus to plant or else if their eyes were open I cannot but call it the greatest piece of cow ardise that ever the Churches of Christ were guilty of to stand idle speechlesse spectators by where was the valour of their faith Heb. 11.33 34. Or if they did dispute and suffer for it I cannot but think it the greatest unfaithfulnesse and oversight the Churches were ever guilty of not to transmit the story to posterity REPLY FIrst this Argument impleadeth Presbyterie as well as Congregationall government for where read we of sufferers for Presbytery Secondly To come more directly to the point you grant the Churches constituted by the Apostles Congregationall now if wee shew this practice of theirs was intended as a pattern for us and so taken by the most Primitive Churches we hope your demand will be satisfied though wee could not distinctly shew you why none appeared in the defence of it of which anon First God and nature do nothing in vain was the saying of the ancient Naturalists the Spirit of God did so distinctly set down the manner of the constitution of the Jewish Church by Moses that posterity may have a distinct pattern as wel as a rule to walk by the Holy Ghost hath to some purpose surely so punctually noted the manner of gathering and governing the Churches planted by the Apostles and what can this purpose be but our imitation in things lawfull and possible for all in the new as well as in the old Testament are written for our learning and follow me saith the Apostle and that by way of forbearing and negatively as by way of doing and affirmatively that is wee may not do what they did not when they might and the nature of the thing seemed to require it as the subjecting particular Churches to a combination of Elders which should have ordinary authority over the severall Congregations which they might have done as well as to keep up the government in one city which they did and as well as the Church of France at this day though under persecution yet keep their government and when by reason of the paucity of believers and the temptation of persecution they had much need of the help of government and no hinderance why they might not seeing though by reason of persecution they might have been hindered for a time and in some places yet the rule of such a government if it had been the will of God had been usefull and though they had been disturbed in one place yet it would have been exercised in some other this was a sufficient argument for God to use Jer. 7.31 they did which I commanded them not and for the Apostle Heb. 7.14 of which Moses spake nothing Ergo God intended it not And so affirmatively what they did for substance we must Hence Gualter in the end of his Comment on the Acts sayes they are not to be listened unto that tell us the way and practice of the Apostles in constituting Churches is not a pattern for us to follow Secondly The Churches in the first and second hundred yeers after Christ did take the Apostles practice for their pattern and therefore every Church did transact all their ordinary affaires within themselves as admission of members choyce and ordination of officers excommunication of scandalous persons deposition of their officers where just cause was in difficult cases indeed they used the counsell and help of other Churches but as being ingaged thereunto only out of the bond of mutuall love and fellowship not of necessity or subjection and where any Church was more famous for gifts numbers Ministers c. to these they gave the greater respects and did more depend upon their guidance till this voluntary and occasionall office of love became a custome viz. for the lesser and obscurer Churches to do nothing without the greater and for the greater to exercise inspection and some kinde of jurisdiction towards the lesser by way of charge and office till in the third Century it was by the Councel of Nice established by a Canon for a Church-law at which time Antichrist had made much progresse towards his usurpation For proof of all which I shall shew you some of the words of the Centurie Writers touching this Argument and first of the constitution of Churches planted by the Apostles 1. Câ—nt lib. 2. cap. 7. de gubernatione Ecclestitul de consociatione c. If it be said these consisted of many congregations and so were Presbyteriall I answer it cannot be proved they were so secondly nor disproved that they were one congregation because we reade so often both in Scripturall and Ecclesiasticall story that they had one Eldership not severall over them and that they all met upon one great occasion together as upon the choice or deposition of Ministers excommunication of members c. and if they did meet in severall places yet having one
Eldership over them and not severall Elderships for the severall companies and not being tied any of them to come to any one place more then another it doth no more argue they were many congregations or hinder their being one though inconvenient to be governed by reason of its vastnesse then it doth in Holland where the case is so or then in some great parishes in and about London where though they meet in one place yet cannot meet all together by reason of the multitude being above 10000. in some parishes unlesse at severall times if it were so that they had been Presbyteriall in a city yet it is far different from that government that makes many towns cities one Church and drawes them to subjection to one common Presbytery and that in ordinary against which many Reasons might be given though the other were admitted Thirdly If the Churches of those times had not so judged that the Way the Apostles left Churches in was to be their pattern as it had been easie for them to order it as afterward their posterity did into Episcopacie so had it been more advantage and ease to them to have united many Churches together into one body and to set one Councell and President over it for the suppressing of Heresies Schismes c. which yet they did not till times grew more corrupt and which at this day is the state of the Papacie Fourthly Though this might suffice yet I shall now shew you how it might come to passe that this received truth might be lost and no notice left of any contending for it First greater truths then this of government have been stolen from the Church without any great reluctancy As far as appears as the reading of the Scriptures by the people transubstantiation of the bread in the Sacrament adoration of the Host the Masse it self taking the cup from the people c. which the subtilty of men taking advantage by the negligence and cowardise of the people brought in without much opposition till long after Secondly the monuments of antiquity in this kinde are very defective first by the notable carelesnesse of Writers in those times of which Ludovicus apud Illyricum in Refutat Brin pag. 15. an Author of no mean credit complains It is a singular grief to me saith he when I call to minde how diligently the actions of Alexander Scipio Annibal Pompey Cesar Socrates Plato Aristotle and other Captains and Philosophers have been noted that there is no perill of their perishing but the doings of the Apostles except such as are set down in sacred Scripture Martyrs and Saints of our Religion yea and of the Church it self whether growing up or at full age are covered in deep silence for these things which are written excepting a few only are corrupted with feigned inventions c. thus hee a man by profession a Papist Secondly because of the prevalencie of the Romish faction whereby all monuments almost that seemed to oppose the intended usurpation as the ancient government of the Churches especially did were either spupressed or some way violated as amongst many others Dr. James hath discovered at large in his book entituled The Corruption of Fathers c. But Lastly to give you a more direct answer there have not been wanting defendents of the liberties of the Churches in this particular for seeing it is evident by the first second and third particular in this answer that both in the Apostles times and next ages after the Churches were governed each by themselves as in respect of authority out of their own body if there were any that resisted those that invaded that liberty those are the examples of suffering or at least contesting for this government but the Bishops were the first that usurped the power of many Churches in ordinary and these were often resisted by word writing and fact as appeares not only by Aerius who was counted an Heretique for his labour but also by Jerom who saith that Bishops were brought in to prevent Heresies and Schismes but that the Churches were anciently governed by the joynt counsell of the Elders Now this was either by the Elders of the same Church or if with others it was a conjunction by way of Christian fellowship and society not by jurisdiction authority and necessity as wee saw before I adde that the sufferings of so many in opposition to Papall government even in the ancient times is an argument in a negative sense that there hath been sufferings for Church-government because they would not submit to a false government To conclude this argument I shall endeavour at better leisure to give you some particular instances out of the story which maymore fully satisfie this Querie Insigniores Ecclesiae c. They which were more eminent Churches say they were in some honour because of the Apostles that taught in them and because of their Ministers that were more excellent for learning and constancy and likewise of the benefits that those Churches did afford to other neighbour Churches but they had no other power over other Churches then by mutuall offices in things belonging to the edification of the whole Church to afford them their help and then instances in particular Churches 2. The Churches in the next age after the Apostles Cent. 2. cap. 7. titul de consociatione Ecclesiarum Caeterum si quis probatos autores c. If say they any man look into the approved Authors of this age hee shall find that the form of government was almost like a popular government for every Church had equall power to preach the Word of God purely to administer the Sacraments to absolve and excommunicate heretiques and wicked men to elect call and ordain Ministers and upon sufficient grounds to depose them to call assemblies and Synods in doubtfull things and that were controversall to require the opinions of others to judge and determine them Further the neighbour Churches for charity and edification sake not for any superiour jurisdiction but for the command of Christ concerning mutuall love in their necessity craved the help of their neighbour Churches and also afforded theirs to them in more weighty questions all the Churches or Elders of that Province or else the most of the Teachers came together and determined by common advice what was to be done for the faithfull in Asia saith Eusebius quoted by them in that place came often from many places together and examined the new doctrines and pronounced them wicked and rejecting the heresie they cast and excommunicated it out of the Church The Churches that were farther off in other Provinces consult with other Churches by letters which they did generally or by common consent subscribe this new prophesie saith Serapin in Euseb cited by the Cent. is refuted and rejected by all the brotherhood which is in all the world Tit. de Synodis privat each Church that things might be better ordered had their Synod or assemblies or Church-meetings in which the Rector or
Pastor the Elders the Deacons and also the people did deliberate and determine of things belonging to the government of the Church 3. The Churches in the third hundred yeer Cen. 3. cap. 7. Tit. de Synodis privatis in principio Now that the jurisdiction of the great Churches over the lesse was established and the authority of metropolitanes determined by the Nicene Councel yet if any businesse happened which could not be perfected without the rest both Ministers people then they came together and dispatched them with common advice without the calling of the Churches of the same Province So Cyprian cited by them Epist l. 3. cap. 10. From the beginning of my being Bishop or Pastor I determined to do nothing without your counsell hee speaks to the Elders and Deacons nor without the consent of the people by my own private opinion In these assemblies in other Churches there were few orders made by the Bishops or Pastors and afterwards approved by the Church unlesse it was in Rome according to the efficacy of the mysterie of Iniquity they are the Authors words some Bishops made decrees as Damasus Galixtus c. By all which it appeares that the Churches most Primitive were ignorant of any necessity or law lying on them to be governed by one Church or more or of associating with any but as they saw cause and by the law of charity neither understood there was any Provinciall much lesse Nationall or universall and ministeriall and governing Church which must by way of authority dispose of all the affaires of the particular Churches Object But they excommunicated in their Assemblies of many Churches Answ 1. So did they in each particular Church as of their own right and consulted not with others unlesse the cause was difficult 2. The excommunication was rather of the opinion by damning and condemning of it then of persons 3. If there were such excommunication of persons yet it was done by the willing consent of the Churches or else for themselves those Churches that met not for others unlesse by consequent that he who is excommunicated out of one Church if it be duly performed is excommunicated out of all ARGUMENT II. WHy hath not the civill Magistrate a power to set up and establish by a law such a worship as an Assembly of godly Divines shal present to them to be according to the Word of God as well as they had a power to pull down false worship Popery Episcopacie Arminianisme and such grosse errors and innovations as had justled out the true servants and service of God and this they did with the approbations and acclamations of all those that professed the power of godlinesse of what Way or Sect soever they were I never heard of any such that accused them for stretching beyond their line therein If the subject matter of Politicall administration be meerly humane matters why did not Congregationall Divines inform them as much but were silent while they had their hands thrust deep into Church-affaires and things spirituall Why did not their jealousie over the Parliament break out when they saw them begin to dash the foot against that stone but gave thanks to God for them their doing but now when they have come to set up and it proves aworship against their judgement and conscience they are reproved and have no power at all in things Ecclesiasticall but every man must enjoy his conscience worship and way If they once had a power to pull down why have they not now power to pull down in the like case with the like proportioned approbation and if in things Ecclesiasticall they have a power to pull down why not to set up too That the civill Magistrate shall have a power in things spirituall and yet no power is a mysterie unto mee REPLY 1. THe government the Magistrate hath pulled down was erected as a Law of the kingdome and by that power was inabled to the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State which was the defection of the Magistracie of these times Now when the Magistrates shall not only withdraw their power but also prohibit the further exercise thereof in the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State we suppose it is no more then according to their just power and therefore do rejoyce therein 2. The Magistrates just doing any thing according to the joynt consent desire approbation and congratulatory acclamations of all the Saints is no good argument to prove a lawfull power in the Magistrate to do things contrary to the joynt consent desires c. of all the Saints Herod and Pilate Felix and Agrippa had a just power to release Christ and Paul c. but that doth not argue that their power was just in delivering them up unto whipping imprisonment death c. it was indeed potentia but not potestas might but not right and it is the latter I suppose that you mean 3. We did never deny the Magistrate a lawfull power to intermeddle with that kinde of Church-government or doctrine opinion or practice which shall most dangerously intermeddle with the State it self and thereby prove evidently hurtfull and apparently destructive thereunto and so did the government whereof you speak which was the ground of that act of abolishing the same When Congregationall or Presbyteriall government or the professors thereof be found in their principles and generall practices underminers of the peace and welfare of the kingdome raising up wars and trouble to maintain the same it is high time for the Magistrate who is mainly to minde salutem populi to pull them down and no longer to tolerate the same and such is the instance which you speak of 4. Those Christian or unchristian Magistrates may have a lawfull power and authority to destroy Antichrist which may have no lawfull authority to appoint lawes and rules for the government of the Churches of Jesus Christ and to enforce the same contrary to their judgements and consciences Cyrus may have a just warrant from God for the ruining of Babylon but not for the compulsion of Sion to worship God according to his thoughts of the will of God therein all Magistrates may and ought to assist and preserve the Churches of Jesus Christ from those that wonld ruine and destroy them but that any magistrate hath power to compell the Saints of God what to believe in matters of faith and what to practice in matters of immediate worship especially in things that are of an intricate and deep cognizance and controversall among the godly learned which is the main businesse in hand between the Presbyterian and Independent party is beyond any ground that I can yet perceive from the Scriptures but we shall meet with this again in another of your Arguments ARGUM. III. VVHy do not our Congregationall Divines write to the Brethren of New-England and convince them of their errour who give as some say the civill Magistrate a power to question doctrines censure errours
evident and what they did unlesse upon expresse either Text or revelation was done with the consent of the congregation 1 Chron. 13.2 c. Fourthly I do not remember that ever they did banish or otherwayes punish all strangers from among them that were not of their own Religion or had such a commission so to do and that these severe lawes about Church-government did belong unto any but their own nation and people or those that joyned themselves to them all that acknowledged the seven precepts of Noah they tolerated Ainsworth on Gen. 17.12 Fifthly Most evident it is that they did suffer severall Sects and differing Opinions among them and that of a more dangerous consequence then is the difference that is the difference that is between the Presbyterian and Independent as the Sadduces the Pharisees the Herodians Alexandrians c. And therefore you may after their example plead for the like toleration or rather for the toleration of those that are of lesse danger Sixthly But if any thing must be added for conclusion we say as the Christians of old leaving the dispute of the Magistrates power in generall we say this Way being of God at least in great probability the Magistrate hath no power to suppresse it which I desire you to take as a full answer those kings of Israel commanded nothing but the expresse will of God and that without infringing the liberties of the Congregation whose consent they had which two things if our Magistrates shall do all that wee shall say will be Go on and prosper Seventhly Whereas you say Let it be shewne where God took this power from the civill Magistrate under the new Testament c. I answer where wee finde types and ceremonies taken away there wee finde this power in matters of Church-government taken away which though it be not exprest in so many plain words as many other cermonies granted on all hands to be taken away are not yet this with others is to be understood as I humbly conceive in that generall expression of the Apostle Gal. 3.24 25. The law was a Schoolmaster to bring us to Christ c. but after that faith is come we are no longer under a Schoolmaster these things being shadows of good things to come but the body is Christ Col. 2.17 And untill it can be proved that the civill government of the Jewes had nothing typicall as well as the Church and that the kings of Israel and Judah were not typicall in this particular I humbly conceive it a sufficient answer to that part of your Argument Eighthly As for the Reasons which you give of the Apostles closenesse for so your word is in declaring the power of Christian Magistrates at that time they are but conjecturall not Scripturall and therefore may as well be denied by me as affirmed by you and that upon as probable grounds Your first Reason is There was no Magistrate then but Heathonish or Jewish and so understood not Gods will in his worship and so had any thing been commanded it had been but a carnall commandement humane which Christians must have refused and therefore it was not their wisdome to speak or write much to that point lest it had proved a snare I answer that mens not understanding Gods will in his worship whether Jewish or Heathonish Magistrate or not Magistrate could be no just ground why the Apostles should not teach them their work being to teach such things which were not before understood and if any thing had been commanded by them though Heathonish or Jewish according to the will of God their commanding the same had not made the commandement carnall for I suppose it is not the person commanding but the nature of the thing commanded that renders it carnall For if a Heathen commands that which is the will of God and a Christian Magistrate that that is net the will of God it is the Heathens command that must be obeyed and the Christian Magistrates command that must be disobeyed because it must be the will of God and not the authority of man that must be the grouud of warranted obedience and they might have taught it without perill by shewing that though he had power in Church-affaires yet not against their profession as being of God which was the only argument they defended it by Your second Reason is Had the Apostles spoken much of a Christian Magistrates power in things civill and Ecclesiasticall and be able to defend Christianity against all its enemies what you mean by this last clause I know not this would have bred jealousies in the Romane State and Christian Churches would have been looked upon as a conspiring trayterous generation and persecutions would soon have been raised up against them it was the Apostles wisdome to keep Cesars head from jealousies that so the Churches might enjoy Christ and their consciences the better c. I humbly answer though it be true the Saints should be as wise as Serpents yet as innocent as Doves and herein the Apostles snewed their innocency in that they kept back nothing of the will of God that was profitable Acts 20.20 I suppose this could not be unprofitable and although every truth must be preached seasonably yet at one time or another your asserting the Apostles supposition of the Saints sufficient understanding the will of God about Christian Magistrates from Gods will revealed therein by the example of the Kings of Israel being only your own conjecture as I said before and not Scripture doth not at all ease this businesse for that must first be proved before we can grant it you and moreover it is evident the Apostles did not balk or forbeare to preach such truths as were every whit as exasperating the Roman Magistrate as this particular you speak of as that Jesus was both Lord and Christ Acts 2.36 and that he should put down all rule and all authority and power yea and that he should reign untill hee hath put down all his enemies under his feet 1 Cor. 15.24 yea and the more they were forbidden to preach the more they went about preaching not regarding the command of the Magistrate when it was beyond the line of his just authority and many other Scriptures of this nature may be given and these things I conceive may be sufficient answers unto your 7th Argument ARGUM. VIII I Desire to know if Gamaliel had given the Councell this advice of refraining and letting alone concerning Theudas or Judas of Galilee I say whether the Councell being able to have demonstrated them and their wayes erroneous they ought to have consented to him or no for this is the true state of the Question and not whether the Ministers and truths of Christ may be suppressed wee all know this would be fighting against God to run a hazard no lesse then death but whether a Councell finding a generation of Teachers erring from the truth and wilfull in their errours must then let them alone and expect