Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	church_n	power_n	synod_n	3,603	5	9.6685	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88948	A reply to Mr. Rutherfurd, or A defence of the answer to Reverend Mr. Herles booke against the independency of churches. VVherein such objections and answers, as are returned to sundry passages in the said answer by Mr. Samuel Rutherfurd, a godly and learned brother of the Church of Scotland, in his boke entituled The due right of Presbyters, are examined and removed, and the answer justified and cleared. / By Richard Macher [sic] teacher to the church at Dorchester in New England. 1646.	Mather, Richard, 1596-1669.	1647 (1647)	Wing M1275; Thomason E386_9; ESTC R201478	144,474	133

answer_n be_v whole_o take_v up_o and_o spend_v in_o two_o other_o thing_n the_o objection_n which_o he_o propose_v as_o we_o be_v whole_o leave_v untouched_a those_o two_o thing_n be_v these_o the_o one_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o passage_n of_o we_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n the_o other_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o last_o part_n of_o his_o objection_n which_o himself_o do_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o say_n of_o other_o and_o not_o we_o and_o therefore_o he_o bring_v it_o in_o thus_o viz._n other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n etc._n etc._n by_o those_o word_n other_o say_v plain_o declare_v that_o what_o he_o thus_o express_v proceed_v not_o from_o we_o but_o from_o other_o and_o so_o though_o he_o return_v answer_v to_o this_o say_n of_o other_o and_o to_o another_o say_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhore_n yet_o for_o this_o of_o we_o which_o he_o propose_v in_o this_o h●s_n objection_n i_o find_v no_o answer_n thereto_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v the_o thing_n remain_v as_o it_o be_v unless_o we_o shall_v take_v his_o mere_a propose_v of_o it_o for_o a_o satisfy_a answer_n which_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v nevertheless_o though_o he_o turn_v away_o from_o this_o passage_n of_o we_o without_o return_v any_o answer_n thereto_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o which_o he_o apply_v himself_o more_o direct_o against_o and_o therefore_o to_o this_o sixteen_o objection_n he_o beg_v his_o answer_n thus_o sure_o the_o aforesaid_a reverend_a brethren_n of_o new-england_n have_v these_o word_n but_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n from_o whence_o say_v he_o i_o infer_v that_o our_o brethren_n can_v deny_v a_o power_n of_o govern_v to_o a_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o proper_a govern_n as_o excommunication_n and_o ordination_n perform_v in_o their_o congregation_n but_o say_v i_o it_o be_v more_o proper_o govern_v as_o to_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v be_v a_o more_o noble_a eminent_a and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n than_o the_o execution_n of_o ●hese_n law_n and_o rule_n answ_n so_o then_o th●se_a former_a word_n of_o we_o propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o forsake_v and_o leave_v and_o instead_o of_o answer_v they_o he_o fall_v as_o we_o set_v upon_o other_o word_n which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o and_o apply_v himself_o to_o deal_v against_o those_o other_o by_o which_o deal_v the_o considerate_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o the_o former_a word_n be_v thus_o handsome_o forsake_v and_o leave_v do_v not_o still_o remain_v in_o their_o strength_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v as_o good_a never_o to_o have_v propose_v they_o at_o all_o in_o his_o objection_n as_o have_v propose_v they_o to_o turn_v away_o direct_o and_o immediate_o from_o they_o unto_o other_o matter_n without_o return_v one_o word_n of_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a the_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v consider_v what_o this_o do_v import_n but_o such_o he_o be_v please_v to_o acquit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o apply_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o therefore_o leave_v the_o former_a in_o its_o strength_n and_o unshaken_a and_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o other_o wherein_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v either_o he_o me●nes_n this_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n proper_o so_o call_v or_o else_o he_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o his_o name_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o and_o it_o seem_v by_o the_o instance_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n that_o he_o intend_v the_o former_a sense_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o noble_a eminent_n and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o he_o call_v it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o only_o to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n in_o heaven_n the_o scripture_n abundant_o witness_v that_o he_o only_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o law_n giver_n to_o his_o church_n l●●_n 4._o 12._o isa_n 33._o 22._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o which_o point_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v consider_v that_o this_o learned_a brother_n himself_o do_v elsewhere_o direct_o and_o in_o express_a term_n co●fesse_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v in_o this_o matter_n for_o in_o one_o place_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n of_o a_o power_n to_o prescribe_v rule_n and_o law_n he_o do_v not_o only_o distinguish_v they_o from_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v by_o the_o word_n directive_n call_v they_o directive_n law_n but_o also_o for_o further_o explain_v his_o mind_n annex_v these_o word_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o law_n which_o the_o church_n prescribe_v christ_n be_v the_o only_a lawgiver_n due_a right_n page_n 395._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v speak_v of_o a_o society_n or_o a_o synod_n power_n of_o make_v law_n he_o add_v for_o explanation_n thus_o i_o take_v not_o here_o law_n for_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o for_o ministerial_a directory_n have_v ecclesiastical_a authority_n so_o then_o the_o church_n or_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o christ_n ●s_v the_o only_a law_n giver_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o govern_v power_n of_o synod_n which_o our_o brother_n will_v prove_v by_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a and_o high_a power_n of_o make_v law_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o at_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a power_n of_o make_v law_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o to_o christ_n only_o and_o this_o may_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o what_o he_o say_v or_o a_o synod_n power_n to_o make_v law_n it_o law_n be_v take_v in_o their_o proper_a sense_n but_o if_o he_o intend_v not_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n in_o the_o place_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o only_o the_o latter_a viz_o that_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o than_o i_o confess_v the_o answer_n in_o the_o 7_o the_o page_n thereof_o do_v acknowledge_v such_o power_n to_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o how_o this_o can_v prove_v their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n proper_o so_o call_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v thence_o infer_v we_o for_o our_o part_n do_v not_o yet_o perceive_v for_o the_o power_n here_o describe_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n and_o we_o have_v give_v sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o answer_n pag._n 43._o 44._o to_o show_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o power_n by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o where_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o power_n by_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n to_o punish_v the_o breach_n of_o those_o rule_n which_o instance_n this_o reverend_a brother_n do_v not_o satisfy_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o which_o power_n we_o deny_v they_o not_o yet_o that_o which_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v that_o they_o have_v also_o a_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o unless_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n doctrine_n and_o jurisdiction_n or_o government_n be_v the_o same_o brief_o thus_o a_o power_n of_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v a_o noble_a and_o eminent_a kind_n of_o government_n but_o this_o power_n do_v not_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o to_o christ_n a_o power_n of_o clear_n up_o christ_n law_n and_o command_v in_o his_o name_n obedience_n thereunto_o do_v belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o this_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n but_o a_o ministerial_a power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o still_o our_o tenent_n do_v stand_v that_o a_o synod_n if_o it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n second_o say_v our_o author_n our_o brethren_n incline_v to_o make_v a_o synod_n a_o teach_a church_n answ_n we_o never_o yet_o absolute_o yield_v that_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n 〈◊〉_d on_o the_o contrary_a we_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o in_o scripture_n the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n be_v give_v to_o a_o

that_o other_o church_n in_o such_o ease_n may_v take_v away_o the_o power_n from_o such_o a_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v this_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o the_o other_o for_o though_o christ_n have_v not_o give_v to_o any_o church_n a_o power_n of_o male_a administration_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v yet_o have_v he_o give_v to_o every_o church_n a_o power_n of_o administration_n which_o if_o they_o manage_v not_o aright_o but_o do_v abuse_v the_o same_o the_o lord_n jesus_n will_v be_v displease_v with_o they_o for_o this_o abuse_n and_o other_o church_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o advise_v they_o and_o admonish_v they_o and_o testify_v against_o they_o for_o the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o power_n itself_o as_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forthwith_o deprive_v they_o thereof_o so_o much_o less_o may_v other_o church_n take_v it_o from_o they_o for_o who_o give_v they_o this_o authority_n per_fw-la in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la and_o church_n be_v all_o of_o equal_a authority_n and_o not_o one_o superior_a or_o inferior_a to_o another_o as_o therefore_o when_o child_n or_o servant_n in_o a_o family_n be_v not_o govern_v as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v yet_o neighbour_n family_n have_v not_o warrant_v because_o of_o this_o male_a administration_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n and_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o family_n even_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n of_o church_n this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o church_n be_v not_o forthwith_o a_o sufficient_a warrant_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o to_o take_v away_o its_o power_n from_o it_o especial_o if_o we_o do_v consider_v that_o this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n may_v possible_o be_v but_o pretend_v and_o not_o real_a and_o that_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o class_n may_v paradventure_o be_v real_o such_o in_o which_o case_n mr._n rutherford_n say_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v not_o of_o christ_n but_o their_o voice_n ought_v the_o jure_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o congregation_n and_o the_o elder_n thereof_o this_o argument_n therefore_o from_o maladministration_n of_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o mr_n rutherford_n say_v it_o be_v reason_n shall_v be_v destroy_v by_o another_o power_n add_v to_o it_o mean_v the_o power_n of_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v of_o no_o sufficient_a force_n to_o take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n at_o all_o not_o to_o establish_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la over_o the_o same_o be_v as_o just_o applyable_a against_o the_o classis_fw-la itself_o therefore_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v yet_o appear_v supreme_a ministerial_a church_n power_n which_o i_o conceive_v must_v needs_o be_v somewhere_o may_v as_o well_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o can_v neither_o by_o this_o argument_n of_o maladministration_n nor_o by_o any_o other_o that_o we_o have_v yet_o see_v be_v place_v in_o the_o classis_fw-la any_o more_fw-it then_o in_o the_o congregation_n chap._n xii_o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr._n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_a or_o national_n council_n the_o next_o place_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o p._n 456._o where_o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o page_z 5._o he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o sole_a judge_n which_o must_v be_v if_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o we_o grant_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o the_o congregation_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o and_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o a_o congregation_n though_o consociate_v with_o other_o congregation_n have_v entire_a jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o answ_n our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n allege_v be_v more_o prospicuous_a and_o clear_a than_o these_o which_o be_v here_o set_v down_o for_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n nor_o yet_o of_o a_o congregation_n consociate_v with_o other_o church_n lest_o of_o all_o do_v we_o say_v or_o report_v other_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n none_o of_o these_o thing_n be_v we_o and_o therefore_o that_o our_o true_a meaning_n may_v plain_o appear_v as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v transcribe_v a_o few_o of_o our_o word_n which_o be_v these_o viz._n sure_a we_o can_v think_v that_o there_o can_v be_v such_o a_o case_n imagine_v wherein_o you_o will_v grant_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n and_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o case_n may_v be_v such_o that_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o which_o seem_v to_o we_o plain_o to_o prove_v that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v so_o independent_a as_o to_o be_v the_o final_a judge_n of_o offence_n within_o itself_o be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n nor_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o be_v intimate_v by_o you_o these_o be_v our_o word_n much_o differ_v from_o those_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n set_v down_o as_o we_o which_o i_o think_v meet_v to_o relate_v out_o of_o the_o answer_n that_o our_o meaning_n may_v appear_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n subjoin_v for_o answer_v none_o of_o we_o say_v he_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n it_o may_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o general_a council_n lawful_o convene_v from_o which_o their_o be_v no_o provocation_n yea_o and_o in_o a_o national_n council_n for_o all_o counsel_n may_v err_v the_o adverse_a party_n may_v judge_v as_o it_o be_v a_o lawful_a council_n according_a to_o a_o church_n constitution_n that_o condemn_v christ_n of_o blasphemy_n and_o they_o be_v also_o his_o enemy_n answ_n and_o may_v it_o not_o also_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o provincial_a synod_n and_o in_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o presbtytery_n of_o many_o church_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o the_o judge_n in_o all_o these_o may_v be_v the_o adverse_a party_n and_o so_o if_o the_o adverse_a party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n than_o neither_o general_n nor_o national_n counsel_n nor_o provincial_n synod_n nor_o class_n nor_o presbytery_n may_v be_v judge_n because_o there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o possible_o they_o may_v be_v party_n and_o so_o this_o argument_n party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o congregation_n power_n of_o judge_v then_o against_o all_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n whatsoever_o unless_o therefore_o man_n will_v overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n whatsoever_o without_o exception_n of_o any_o they_o can_v have_v no_o help_n from_o this_o argument_n to_o overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n not_o to_o insist_v upon_o that_o which_o may_v also_o be_v true_o allege_v that_o the_o objection_n have_v the_o like_a force_n if_o any_o at_o all_o against_o civil_a judicatories_n but_o be_v it_o so_o indeed_o as_o our_o brother_n affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n i_o think_v he_o shall_v not_o thus_o have_v speak_v for_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v if_o the_o contrary_a hereunto_o be_v not_o certain_o true_a for_o first_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o reverend_a mr_n herle_n in_o his_o book_n of_o independency_n page_n 5._o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n page_n 6_o the_o very_a pag._n which_o here_o mr_n rutherford_n be_v deal_v against_o in_o which_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_v there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v gradual_a judicatories_n wherein_o the_o aggrieved_a party_n may_v appeal_v from_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o high_a that_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n the_o adverse_a party_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a

1_o the_o substance_n of_o their_o call_n consist_v not_o in_o this_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o and_o what_o shall_v that_o be_v but_o their_o election_n by_o the_o people_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o then_o then_o why_o be_v a_o consummatory_n rite_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n gainsay_v and_o oppose_v for_o what_o great_a difference_n be_v there_o between_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v reconcile_v with_o himself_o that_o say_v it_o be_v nothing_o but_o such_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v and_o yet_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o for_o the_o other_o particular_a where_o he_o say_v this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v enjoy_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n if_o by_o ministerial_a act_n he_o mean_v a_o act_n that_o can_v be_v lawful_o perform_v by_o none_o but_o only_o by_o a_o minister_n then_o i_o desire_v some_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v so_o enjoin_v to_o timothy_n that_o it_o be_v enjoin_v to_o he_o i_o grant_v but_o that_o it_o be_v so_o enjoin_v needs_o some_o better_a proof_n than_o a_o bare_a and_o naked_a affirmation_n special_o since_o many_o thing_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n in_o those_o example_n which_o be_v and_o be_v just_o applyable_a to_o all_o christian_n furthermore_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n how_o do_v this_o reach_n to_o make_v good_a the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o the_o people_n election_n may_v contain_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v notwithstanding_o or_o how_o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n but_o something_o more_o be_v there_o any_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n here_o that_o the_o one_o of_o these_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o other_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o nor_o see_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a but_o if_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v such_o a_o ministerial_a act_n as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v yet_o it_o may_v still_o be_v mere_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o call_n consist_v still_o in_o the_o people_n election_n himself_o do_v say_v as_o we_o hear_v even_o now_o that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n act._n 6._o though_o here_o he_o call_v it_o a_o ministerial_a act_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o the_o deacon_n and_o therefore_o these_o two_o to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o yet_o to_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n which_o to_o i_o be_v the_o same_o be_v not_o so_o inconsistent_a by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o that_o they_o may_v well_o stand_v together_o and_o himself_o do_v also_o hold_v that_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n mention_v numb_a 8._o 10._o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o that_o they_o who_o do_v it_o perform_v the_o same_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o levite_n call_v be_v in_o the_o immediate_a designment_n and_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o not_o in_o the_o performance_n of_o this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v grant_v to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n yet_o still_o it_o may_v be_v mere_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o minister_n call_v not_o consist_v in_o it_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o a_o ministerial_a call_n stand_v in_o a_o authoritative_a send_n rom._n 10._o 15._o and_o i_o see_v not_o well_o how_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o answ_n but_o it_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o see_v how_o they_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o be_v send_v unto_o they_o by_o god_n and_o if_o god_n do_v furnish_v a_o man_n with_o gift_n and_o a_o holy_a propensity_n of_o mind_n to_o the_o work_n in_o general_a and_o to_o such_o or_o such_o a_o people_n in_o particular_a and_o make_v way_n by_o his_o providence_n thereto_o than_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o man_n be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n and_o then_o if_o that_o people_n observe_v god_n send_v of_o he_o in_o this_o s●●t_n do_v hereupon_o elect_v and_o choose_v he_o and_o promise_v to_o be_v obedient_a to_o he_o in_o the_o lord_n what_o be_v there_o now_o want_v to_o the_o substance_n and_o offence_n of_o such_o a_o man_n calling_n to_o such_o a_o people_n and_o yet_o the_o man_n be_v not_o send_v by_o they_o to_o themselves_o but_o send_v by_o god_n and_o receive_v and_o choose_v by_o they_o parcus_n understand_v this_o send_n rom._n 10._o of_o god_n send_v and_o so_o do_v piscator_fw-la and_o who_o not_o and_o to_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o will_v be_v to_o condemn_v the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n who_o be_v not_o send_v by_o man_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o do_v true_o answer_v this_o scripture_n in_o that_o they_o be_v send_v of_o god_n true_a it_o be_v ordinary_a minister_n be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n be_v but_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n and_o by_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o way_n and_o mean_n if_o they_o do_v observe_v they_o also_o may_v be_v true_o say_v to_o be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o the_o people_n but_o peradventure_o our_o brother_n mean_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o lawful_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o minister_v unto_o themselves_o except_o he_o be_v first_o send_v unto_o they_o in_o a_o authoritative_a way_n by_o some_o other_o man_n and_o that_o otherwise_o he_o be_v not_o send_v unto_o they_o of_o god_n which_o if_o it_o be_v true_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n as_o i_o say_v be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o man_n send_v they_o not_o it_o will_v also_o hereupon_o be_v requisite_a to_o be_v clear_v that_o some_o man_n beside_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o send_v minister_n to_o the_o church_n and_o who_o these_o man_n be_v that_o have_v such_o authority_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v also_o which_o i_o for_o my_o part_n think_v will_v not_o be_v do_v in_o haste_n and_o till_o this_o be_v do_v i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o i_o may_v still_o retain_v this_o apprehension_n that_o man_n who_o be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n and_o due_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o some_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o god_n people_n be_v true_o send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n the_o people_n have_v not_o either_o formal_o or_o by_o grant_n of_o christ_n virtual_o the_o key_n commit_v to_o they_o how_o then_o can_v they_o give_v the_o key_n to_o pastor_n answ_n yet_o in_o p._n 7._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n or_o some_o other_o act_n of_o the_o key_n simple_o necessary_a hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la and_o this_o power_n say_v he_o be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a now_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o and_o yet_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o though_o not_o formal_o what_o be_v it_o but_o a_o apparent_a contradiction_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o people_n have_v not_o this_o power_n either_o formal_o or_o virtual_o yet_o mr._n ball_n and_o mr._n bai●s_v afore_o he_o do_v tell_v we_o that_o ministerial_o they_o may_v give_v what_o they_o never_o have_v viz._n as_o minister_a to_o he_o who_o have_v power_n and_o virtue_n of_o derive_v it_o as_o a_o man_n not_o 〈◊〉_d a_o penny_n of_o his_o own_o may_v give_v a_o 100_o l._n if_o the_o king_n make_v he_o his_o almoner_n thus_o the_o church_n derive_v a●_n take_v the_o person_n who_o christ_n describe_v and_o out_o of_o power_n will_v ●ave_n place_v in_o this_o or_o that_o office_n in_o his_o church_n the_o power_n of_o the_o imperial_a dignity_n be_v not_o in_o the_o elector_n of_o the_o emperor_n nor_o the_o power_n of_o that_o office_n and_o authority_n whereunto_o a_o minister_n be_v elect_v in_o the_o church_n who_o choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n ball_n trial_n of_o separate_a pag._n 239_o 240._o pag._n 494_o 495._o people_n may_v as_o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n discern_v his_o voice_n joh._n 10._o and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n nor_o do_v this_o

congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v be_v the_o main_a question_n which_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_n may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o n●t_v the_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o now_o whether_o our_o brother_n in_o that_o which_o we_o have_v hitherto_o hear_v have_v sufficient_o clear_v it_o unto_o we_o that_o we_o may_v know_v where_o this_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a to_o consider_v chap._n viii_o whether_o antioch_n act._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n but_o though_o our_o author_n do_v not_o clear_v it_o to_o we_o where_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v yet_o in_o this_o pag_n 423_o and_o 424._o he_o use_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n act._n 15._o and_o our_o own_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o same_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o do_v not_o lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n which_o argument_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o consider_v his_o word_n be_v those_o that_o supremacy_n of_o power_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n without_o any_o power_n of_o appeal_n i_o think_v our_o brethren_n can_v teach_v for_o when_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n can_v judge_v a_o matter_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o keep_v moses_n law_n they_o by_o nature_n direction_n act._n 15._o 2._o decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a to_o another_o judicatory_a this_o we_o conceive_v be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n nor_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o the_o reason_n it_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a and_o authority_n to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_n may_v argue_v want_n of_o agreement_n or_o imperfection_n of_o light_n but_o argue_v no_o want_n of_o authority_n or_o right_n within_o themselves_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o for_o that_o end_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n now_o this_o endeavour_n do_v argue_v their_o right_n for_o otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o presume_v to_o do_v that_o which_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o ●nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o