chuse an other conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt executed the residue of the things which pertayned vnto the whole action In the seconde of the actes all the Apostles are accused of drunkennesse Peter answeareth for thē all wypeth away the infamy they were charged with But you will say where are the voyces of the rest which did chuse Peter vnto thys First you must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstāce then surely you do Peter great iniury that aske whether he were chosen vnto it For is it to bee thought that Peter would thrust in hym selfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of hys fellowes and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence vndoubtedly if it hadde not beene done arrogantly yet it must needes haue a great shew of arrogancye if hee hadde done thys without the consent of hys fellowes And heere you shall heare what the Scholiast sayth which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora speaking of Peter panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hereupon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gate any archapostleship beside that the whole story of the actes of the apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same Scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing archikos imperiously nothing meta exousias with domynion or power Further I will admonishe him to take heede least if he striue so sore for the archbyshop he slide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papistes which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the apostles And that it may bee vnderstanded that thys moderate rule voyde of all pompe and outward shew was not perpetuall nor alwayes tyed vnto one man which were the last poyntes of the cautions I put before turne vnto the 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled to decide a great controuersie Iames the Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayd their iudgementes and namely Paule and Barnabas Peter he in the ende in the name of all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewyse appeare in the 21. of the Actes This is hee which is called the byshop in euery church thys is he also whome Iustin wherof mention is made afterwardes calleth proestos And finally thys is that great archbishoppricke and great bishoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence the Apostles time and those that were neare them kept and the nearer they came to the apostles times the nearer they kept them to this order and the farther of they were from those times vntill the discouering of the sonne of perdition the further of were they from thys moderation and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power which oppressed and ouerlayde the churche of God. And therefore maister Caluin doth warely say that one amongst the apostles indefinitely not any one singular person as Peter had the moderation and rule of the other and further shadoweth out what rule that was by the example of the consul of Rome whose authoritie was to gather the senate together to tell of the matters which were to be handled to gather the voyces to pronounce the sentence And although the Antichrist of Rome had peruerted all good order and taken all libertie of the church into hys the Cardinalles Archbishops and Byshoppes handes yet there are some colde and lyght footinges of it in our synodes which are holden with the parliament where amongst all the mynisters which are assembled out of all the whole realme by the more part of voyces one to chosen which should goe before the rest propounde the causes gather the voyces and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company whome they terme the prolocutor Suche great force hath the truthe that in the vtter ruines of Popery it could neuer be so pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more or that it shoulde not leaue suche markes and printes behinde it whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it selfe and come agayne to the knowledge of men Now you see what authoritie we allow amongst the ministers both in their seuerall churches or in prouinciall sinodes or nationall or generall or what so euer other meetinges shall be aduised of for the profite and edifying of the church and withall you see that as we are farre from thys tyranny and excessiue power which now is in the church so we are by the grace of God as farre from confusion and disorder wherein you trauell so much to make vs to seeme giltie M. Doctor reasoneth agayne that Paule an Apostle and in the highest degree of ministerie was superior to Timothe and Titus Euangelistes and so in a lower degree of mynisterie therefore one mynister is superior to an other one byshop to an other byshop whych are all one office and one function As if I shuld say my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the sherifes therfore one sherife is superior to an other Again an other argumēt he hath of the same strēgth Titus being an Euangelist was superior to al the pastors in Crete which was a degree vnder the Euangelists therfore one pastor must be superior vnto an other pastor And that he was superior he proueth because he had authority to ordaine pastors so that the print of the archbyshop is so deepely set in his head that hereof he can imagine nothing but that Titus shuld be archbishop of all Crete I haue shewed before how these words are to be taken of S. Paule and for so much as M. Doctor burdeneth vs wyth the authority of Caluin so often I wil send him to Caluins owne interpretation vpon this place wher he sheweth the Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority for s. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that whych he him self wold not and sheweth that to say that Titus should make the election of pastors by him selfe is to giue vnto hym a princely authority and to take away the election from the church and the iudgement of the insufficiency of the minister from the company of the pastors whych were sayeth he to prophane the whole gouernment of the church I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be so busy wyth M. Caluin and to seke confirmation of his archbyshop and byshop at him whych wold haue shaken at the naming of the one and trembled at the office of the other onles it be because he would faine haue hys plaister where he receiued hys wound but I dare assure him
is mentioned of one Theodotus who is sayd to haue seperated or excommunicated Apollinaris but it doth not appeare there that he alone of hys owne authority dyd excommunicate hym And there be great reasons in that Chapter to proue that he dyd it not of hys owne authority for immediatly after his heresy was knowne Damasus bishop of Rome and Peter bishop of Alexandria caused a sinode to be gathered at Rome where hys heresy was condemned Now for so much as the custome of synodes and councels is when they condenme the heresyes to excommunicate the heretickes it is to be thoughte that that councell dyd excommunicate hym and that Theodotus byshop of Laodicea dyd execute that decree and excommunication And in deede Sozomene doth so expound hym selfe when immediatly after he had sayde that he dyd excommunicate him he addeth acoinonetoh auton apophainei whych is that he declared him excommunicate whych in deede properly belongeth to the minister when the excommunication is decreed by those to whoÌ„ it appertaineth Whych thing may yet better appeare by the manner of speache whych is vsed in an other place where speaking of â—ictor excommunycating Theodotus he vttereth it by thys apekeryxe whych is to promulgate or pronounce the sentence whych was decreed by others As for Amb. although he be greatly commended for excommunicating the Emperor yet he was neuer commended for that he did excommunicate him himselfe alone and if he dyd excommunicate him himselfe alone yet hys fault was the les for so much as he being desirous of an eldershyp could not as it semeth by hys complaint which I haue spoken of before â—â—â—aine one And although the storyes doe not make mention y there were others whose authority came into thys excommunication yet it followeth not y there were no other And how often wil you stomble at that which you do so sharply reproue in others whych is in making of arguments of authority negatiuely And if you will not grauÌ„t thys manner of reasonyng in the scripture in matters pertaining to the gouernment of the church whych are all comprehended in the scripture how would you reason of a common story whych neither can nor dothe professe to speake all those things whych fall into that matter whych it wryteth of But what if so be it be proued that Ambrose did not this of hys owne authoritye but by the authoritye also of others will you then confesse that he is commended of all those whych wryte stories for so doing and confesse that the vse and practise of the primitiue church was far from thys that is nowe For proufe whereof I will geue you a place whych Ambrose the best wytnes of thys matter hath in one of his epistles wher he sheweth that assone as the murther whych Theodosius had caused to be done at the citye of Thessalonica was heard by and by the byshops of Fraunce came and there was holden a Synode where also Ambrose sayeth that hys communicating wyth Theodosius coulde not absolue hym for that as it myght appeare the byshops in that synode had in excommunicating hym ordained that he should not be absolued vntill suche tyme as he had done repentance whych he did afterward with confessyon of his faulte before the congregation and asking forgeuenes of it So it appeareth that that whych he did he did it by the sentence of the synode and not of hys owne authority alone In the. 220. 221. pages he speaketh of thys thing a fresh but hath no newe matter but maketh a bare rehersall of the places of the admonition asking after hys accustomed manner of confuting what maketh thys or what proueth that only wheras he sayd before and proued as he thought that the minister had only to do wyth excommunication being pressed there by the admonition either to defend or renounce hys Chauncellors c. he had rather deny bothe the truth and himselfe then he wold haue any of that horrible confusion and prophanation of the holy discipline of God brought in by popery threatnyng the ouerthrow of the whole church seruing for nothing but for the nourishing of the ambition and idlenes of a fewe driuen out of the church Of the whych I will vpon occasion speake a word if first I shewe that the vse of the auncyent church hath bene not to permit the excommunication to one but that the sentence therof should come from the gouernors and elders of the church vnto whome that dyd especially appertaine Although I can not passe by that which M. doctor sayth that for so much as the authors of the Admonition had alledged the words tell the church to proue the interest of the church in excommunication that therefore they could not vse the same to proue the interest of the pastor as who should saye that the pastor is not one of the church But of the absurdity of this I haue spoken sufficiently before and how all men do see the vanity of thys reason that because that people haue an interest by thys place therfore the pastor hath none But I come to shew the vse of the primitiue church in thys matter wherof we haue a manifest testimony in Tertullian If sayth he there be any whych hath committed suche a faulte that he is to be put away from the partakyng of the prayer of the church and from all holy matters or affaires there do beare rule or be presidents certaine of the most approued auncients or elders whych haue obtayned thys honor not by mony but by good report And that the auncients had the ordering of these things and the peoples consent was required and that if the case were a very difficult case it was referred vnto the synodes or councels and that the ministers dyd not take vpon them of their owne authority to excommunicate and that those whych dyd receiue the excommunicate wythout the knowledge consent of the churche were reprehended it may appeare almost in euery page of Cyprians Epistles and namely in these whych I haue noted in the margent In Augustines tyme it appeareth also that the consent of the church was required for in the third boke agaynst the epistle of Parmenian he sheweth that if the multitude of the church be not in that fault for which one is to be excommunicated that then it helpeth much to make the party both afrayde and ashamed that he be excommunicated or anathematised as he calleth it by all the churche and in hys bookes de Baptis contra Donatistas in diuers places he is so far from permitting the excommunication to one man that he semeth to fal into the other extremity whych is to make the estate of the church to populare and the people to haue too great a sway For there he sheweth that if the most of the people be infected wyth the fault whych is to be punyshed by excommunication that then no excommunication ought to be attempted for because a sufficient numbre of voyces will not be obtained
common wealth vnto the church 181. Drunkardes whoremongers c. papistes are neither of the church nor in the church 50. M. Doctors Clemens counterfait 88. c. Communion receiued by 2. or 3. the rest of the church departing not to be suffered 147. c. Papistes ought not to bee compelled to receiue the Communion of the Lord nor to be admitted if they offer them selues 167. c. Communicants what they be which must of necessitie be examined 164. c. Wherupon the ministring of the Communion in houses to sicke parsons rose 146. c. Common bread most conuenient for the Communion 164. c. Kneeling at the Communion daungerous and not so agreeable to the action of the supper as sitting 165. c Confirmation of children ought to be taken away 199. D  Deacons ordayning with vs in part examined 39 Deacons were in euery church 190. c. Deacons office is only in prouiding for the poore of the church 190. Deacons office perpetuall 191. Deacons may not preach nor baptise 161. DecoÌ„sh is no ordinary step to the ministery 163 Deanes in times past how much they differed from ours now 96. Disciplyne and gouernment of the church â—â—â— matters of fayth and saluation 26 Discipline standeth in 3. principall partes 183. Dyonisius Areopagita no archb but bish 91. M. doctors Dyonisius a counterfait 188 E  Elders in euery congregation in the Apostles times 173. c Elders necessary in euery churche of the causes of their office 175. c. Elders in euery church alwayes necessary but especially in the time of peace vnder a christen magistrate 178. c. Eldership was kept in the church vnder christian Emperors in the time of peace 182. Eldership fel out of the church through slouthfulnes ambition of the Doctors 182. Election of the ministers ought to bee by the church 44. c Pretended differences to alter the manner of election of the mynisters vsed in the primatiue church answered 49. c Election and ordination differ 58. c Euangelists no ordinary ministers 63. c. Excommunication doth not belong to one maÌ„ but vnto the church and especially to the minister and elders therof 184. c. F  Standing lawes of fasting brought in first by the hereticke Montanus 30. Augustines and Ambroses corrupt iudgement of fasting 30. G  We haue more certaine direction by the gospel in the whole seruice of God then the Iewes had by the lawe 35. c. Greater seuerity ought to be vsed against sins and especially against idolatry vnder the gospel then vnder the law 42. c There ought to be no more standing at the reading of the gospell theÌ„ at the reading of other scriptures 203 Churche Gouernment compounded of all the good formes of gouernment 51. H  The churches authoritye in makyng of Holy dayes 151. c Of the Apostles and saints dayes 152. c. Of homilyes reading in the church 81. 196. c I.  Iames no archbyshop but a byshop by Eusebius iudgement 91. There ought to be no more curtesy at the name of Iesus then at the other names of God. 203. M  Abuses in the celebration of maryage 196. c. Metropolitane byshop what that the name implieth no supertoritye 93. Metropolitanes very pore 108. 94. Ministers lordship one ouer an other eyther in office or name forbidden 22. c In what sorte and howe farre ministers are superiors one ouer another 109. c The cause of want of ministers with vs. 40. c. Ministers reuolting to idolatrye oughte not to be receiued againe to the ministery 40. Ministers may not exercise ciuill offices 206. O  Officials iurisdiction vnlawfull 188. c. Ordination and election differ 58. c. Receiue the holy ghost an vnlawfull speache of the B. in ordaining ministers 62. c. P  Parishes not deuided by Denis the Monke but by the word of God. 69. Prayers not only in matter but also in forme ought to belike the prayers of the scripture 138 Particulare faultes in oure forme of Common prayer 136. c The name of Priest cannot agree vnto the minister of the gospell 198. Prophet no ordinary minister 63. c R  Reading is not preaching 160 Reading preaching the word compared 159 Residence or abiding in one certain place required of al ordinary ecclesiastical ministeries 60 Residence continuall and necessary of the minister in hys church 65. c S  Sacramentes oughte to be ministred after the word is preached 157. Sacramentes vnlawfully ministred in priuate houses 28. 142. c Scripture containing the direction of al things pertaining to the churche and of whatsoeuer things can fall into any part of mans life 26 Scriptures Canonicall ought only to be red in the church 196. c Singing of Psalmes in the church side by side corrupt 203. T  Theodoret a pore Metropolitane 115. Timotheus and Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste byshops 91. but in deede Euangelists 65 Aug. iudgement of traditions very corrupt 31 VV  Widowes in the churche to helpe the sicke and impotent in it 191 Women may not minister baptisme and howe this corruption came into the church 143. c Womens churching corrupt 150 ⧠To the Church of England and ALL THOSE THAT LOVE THE TRVETH IN IT T. C. wisheth mercy and peace from God our father and from our Lord Iesus Christ AS our men do more willingly go to warfare and fyght with greater courage agaynst straungers then agaynst theyr countreymen so it is with me in thys spirituall warfare For I would haue wyshed that thys controuersy had bene with the Papystes or with other if any can be more pestylent and professed ennemyes of the church for that should haue bene les griefe to wryte and more conuement to perswade that which I desire For as the very name of an ennemy doth kyndle the desire of fyghting and stirreth vp the care of preparing the furniture for the warre So I can not tell how it commeth to passe that the name of a brother staketh that courage and abateth that carefulnes which should be bestowed in desence of the truth But seeing the truth ought not to be forsaken for any mans cause I enforced my selfe considering that if the Lord myght lay it to my charge that I was not for certayne considerations so ready as I ought to haue bene to publyshe the truth he myght more iustly condemne me if being oppugned and slaundered by others I should not according to that measure which he hath dealte vnto me and for my small habylitie defend it and delyuer it from the euill report that some endeuor to bring vpon it And as vnto other partes of the gospell so sone as the Lord openeth a dore for them to enter in there is for the most part great resistance so in thys part concerning the gouernment and dyscipline of the church which is the order which God hath left as well to make the doctryne
cause In the. 240. page he reasoneth thus that the surplice c. be notes and notes of good ministers therefore they be good notes of ministers which is a fallacion of compositiō when a man thinketh that whatsoeuer is sayd of a thing by it selfe may be sayd of it when it is ioyned with an other In the. 149. page he reasoneth thus those which authorised the booke of Common prayer were studious of peace building the churche therefore those which finde fault with it are pullers downe of the church and disturbers of the peace which is a fallacion of the Accident when a man thinketh that euery thing which is verified of the Subiect may be likewise verefied of that which is annexed vnto it The further confutation of which arguments I refer vnto their places There be diuers other which he hath which are so farre from iust conclusions as they haue not so muche as any colour of likelyhode of argument which I can not tell where to lodge vnles I put them in the common Inne which is that which is called the ignorance of the Elench as in the. 69. page when he concludeth thus that Cyprian speaketh not of the bishop of Rome ergo he speaketh of an archbyshop And in the. 71. page There must be superioures ergo one minister must be superiour vnto an other There must be degrees therfore there must be one archbyshop ouer a prouince And in the. 73. there was one ouer euery congregation therefore there was one ouer all the ministers in the prouince These and a number like vnto these M. Doctor hath scattered throughout his boke which as Nero sayd of his master Senecas works cleaue together like sand thus let it be sene whose arguments are most iustly concluded those of the admonition or these of M. Doctors An answere to the exhortation to the eyuill Magistrates IT is more thē I thought could haue hapned vnto you once to admit into your mynde thys opinion of Anabaptisme of your brethren which haue alwayes had it in as great detestatiō as your selfe preached against it as much as your selfe hated of the folowers fauourers of it as much as your selfe And it is yet more strange that you haue not doubted to geue out such slaunderous reports of them but dare to present such accusations to the holy and sacred seat of iustice thereby so much as in you lyeth to corrupt it to call for the sword vpon the innocent which is geuen for their mayntenance and safetie that as it is a boldnes vntollerable so could I hardly haue thought that it could haue fallen into any that had caryed but the countenaunce and name of a professor of the gospell much les of a doctor of dyuinitie Before you will ioyne with vs in this cause you wil place vs whether we wil or no in the campe of the Anabaptistes to the ende you myght thereby bothe withdraw all from ayding vs which are godly minded as for the you fearing as it semeth the insufficiencie of your pen myght haue the sword to supply your want other wayes And if we be found in theyr campe or be such disturbers of the quiet estate of the church defacers of such as be in authoritie maintayners of licenciousnes and lewde lybertie as you do seme to charge vs with we refuse not to go vnder those punishmentes that some of that wicked sect receiued for iust recompence of their demerites You say you will not accuse any I know it is for want of no good wil that you do not accuse them of whose condemnation and extreame punishment we myght be sure if your hand were as strong as your hart But you suspect the authors of the admonition and their fautors * Charitie is not suspitious Let vs therefore see whether there be iust matter to beare out and to vphold this suspition You wil beare men in hand that if we be not already full Anabaptistes yet we are in the way thither the footesteps whereby you trace vs must be considered To the first article It is all true you here alleage of the Anabaptistes God be praysed there is nothing of it true in vs If through these questions moued the church be disquieted the disquietnes riseth in that the truth and sinceritie which is offered is not receyued VVe seeke it in no tumultuous manner but by humble sute vnto them to whome the redresse of thinges pertayne and by teaching as our callinges wil suffer If all those are to be counted in the way to Anabaptisme which moue controuersies when the gospell is preached Then those that taught that the Gentilles were to be preached vnto when as the most of the beleuing Iewes which likewise preached the gospell thought otherwise are to be counted in the way to Anabaptisme Likewise those that preached that circumcision was not necessary vnto saluation when as a great number of Christians at the first thought it necessary Then maister Zuinglius Oecolampadius smelled of Anabaptisme which went about to ouerthrow dyuerse things which maister Luther helde I could goe further with thys but I content my selfe wyth these examples If any be brought in doubt or hatred of the truth hereby or any man take occasion to be contentious it is not in the nature of the doctrine which is taught but in the corruption of their myndes nor it is not offence geuen but taken nor thys doctryne can be no more charged then the rest of the gospell which is a * sworde that cutteth a citie or kingdome in sunder and setteth a * fire where there was none and putteth contention betwene the father and the sonne But what is to geue an incurable offence vnto the simple and matter to the enemie to reioyce in to all good Christyans of teares and weeping if thys be not to make the world thinke that numbers of those which professe the gospell are infected wyth the poison of Anabaptisme whych can not be touched wyth the smallest poynt of it As for the magistrate and authority we acknowledge the lawfulnes necessity and singular commodity of it we commēd it in our sermons to others we pray for them as for those of whose good or euill estate hangeth the flourishing or decay of the common wealth and church both We loue them as our fathers and mothers we feare them as our Lords and maisters and we obay thē in the Lord and for the lord If there be any thyng wherin we do not according to that which is commaunded it is because we can not be persuaded in our consciences that we may so doe wherof we are ready to render a reason out of the word of God and if that wil not serue forthwith to submit our selues to that punishment that shall be awarded against vs And herein we first cal the Lord God to witnes of our meaning and then we referre our selues to the consciences of all men in the sight of God. To the second Article There
was neuer hereticke so abhominable but that he had some truth to cloke hys falshode should hys vntruths and blasphemies driue vs from the possession of that which he holdeth truely no not the Deuill hym selfe saying that * God had geuen his angels charge ouer his can thereby wring this sentence from vs why we should not both beleue it and speake it being a necessary truth to beleue and speake You may as wel say we are Anabaptists because we say there is but one God as they did one Christ as they did c. And heere I will geue the reader a tast of your Logike that you make so much of in your boke The Anabaptists say that the churches ought to chuse their minister and not the magistrate And you say so Therfore you are Anabaptists or in the way to Anabaptisme The Anabaptists complained that the Christians vsed not their authoritie in excommunication And so do you complaine Therfore you are Anabaptists or in the way to them I will not lay to your charge that you haue not learned Aristotles Priorums which sayth it is asystaton as often as the meane in any syllogisme is cōsequent to both the extremes But haue you not learned that whych Seton or any other halfepenny Logik telleth you that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the second figure and of thys sort are euery one of your surmises contained in thys Treatise whych you entitle an exhortation c. And if I liked to make a long boke of little matter as you do I would thus gather your argumēts out of euery brasich whych you ascribe as common vnto vs wyth the Anabaptists as you make adoe vpon euery place whych is quoted by the admonition to the Parliament But answer I pray you in good faith are you of that iudgement that the ciuill magistrate should ordaine ministers Or that there should be no excommunication whych we know was in the primitiue and is vsed in certaine the Heluetian churches If you be your controuersy is not so much wyth vs as wyth the byshops whych both call ministers and excommunicate If you be not why is that Anabaptisticall in vs whych is christian and catholike in you and why do you go about to bring vs in hatred for those things whych you do no more alow then these whom you thus endeuor to discredite We do not say that there is no lawfull or no ordinary calling in England for we do not deny but that he maye be lawfully called whych is not ordinarily as M. Luther Melancthon Zuinglius Oecolampadius c. and there be places in England where the ministers are called by their parishes in such sorte as the examples of the scripture do shew to haue bene done before the eldershyp and gouernment of the church be established I know not any that saith that the gospel is not truely preached in Englande and by those also that are not of the same iudgement that the Admonition to the Parliament is of But if it be sayd that it is not generally of euery one of them and in all poynts or not so oftē or not there where their duety bindeth them and they are called vnto or not so sincerely or wythout mixture as it oughte to be then there is nothing sayde but that which we feare may be too easely proued If it be sayde of some that in certaine there are found some of those things that were reprehēded in the Phariseis what is that to proue that they be Anabaptistes y speake it Your selfe in one place of your booke call the authors of the Admonition and their fauourers Phariseis who do all thyngs to be seene of men and therefore they sighe and holde downe their heades c. and thys you speake against them that preache the gospell Therefore by your reason you geue sentence of Anabaptisme against your selfe You promised you would not wryte one worde wherof you had not your author for it First you haue peruerted the meaning of the Anabaptists in that wherein they accused the godly ministers that they were not according to that whych is wrytten in the third of the first Epistle to Timothe and all because you would multiply the nōbre of your likelyhodes For they charged the ministers by that place of dissolutenes and losenes of lyfe and corruption of manners and we alledge it to proue that they should be able to teache and instruct against the dumbe ministery that is abrode But that which followeth vttereth not only great vntruth and falsification of the author but sheweth a minde desirous to slaunder and sory as it seemeth that those whych you so greeuously discredite are no liker the Anabaptists then they be I will sette downe the wordes as they are wrytten in the. 102. leafe that it may appeare howe faithfully you haue dealt Libere enim dicunt concionatores qui stipendium accipiunt non esse veros Dei ministros neque posse docere veritatem sed esse ventris ministros qui otiose accipiant ingentia stipendia ex illis rebus que simulachris immolate fuerunt ex diuitiis splendide luxuriose viuant cum tamen Christus dixit gratis accepistis gratis date prohibuit duas tunicas peram pecuniam habere Preterea Paulum aiunt manibus suis laborasse mandasse reliquis vt idem faciant itaque concludunt nulla debere stipendia habere sui officii sed laborare gratis ministrare quiahoc non faciunt non posse ipsos veritatem docere They say freely speaking of the Anabaptists that the preachers whych take stipends can not be the true ministers of God nor teache the truthe but are ministers of the belly whych to liue idlely take great stipendes of those things whych were offered to images and doe of their riches liue gorgeously and riotously when notwithstanding Christe sayde ye haue receiued freely geue freely and for bad them to haue two coates or a scrip or money Besides that they say that Paule laboured with hys owne handes and gaue commaundement to the rest of the ministers that they should do so and therefore they conclude that they should haue no stipende for their office but laboure and minister for nought and because they doe not so they can not teache the truthe Nowe let all men iudge whether it be one thing to say that they ought not to haue stipends that labor not or to say as the Anabaptists sayd that it was not lawfull to haue any stipende or to say they coulde not teach truely because they had great liuings or because they had any liuings at all Although I neuer red nor heard any of those that you meane saye that those whych had great stipends and liuings could not preach truely It may be that diuers haue sayd that it were meete the ministers should be content wyth competent stipends and that the ouerplus of that myght go to the supply of the wants of other ministers liuings and to the maintenance
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what
muste remember that S. Luke coulde not learne to speake of them that came two or three hundreth yeares after him but he borrowed thys phrase of speache of those that were before him and therfore speaketh of elections as they did So that you see thys shift will not serue Let vs therfore see your third whych is that although the Churches consent was then required yet is it not nowe and that it is no general rule no more then say you that all things should be therfore common now because they were in the Apostles time The authors of the Admonition wyth their fauourers muste be counted Anabaptists no one word being shewed whych tendeth thervnto you must accuse them whych confirme that foundation whereof they build their communitie of all things whych is one of their cheefe heresies If I shoulde saye nowe that you are like to those that rowe in a boate whych although they loke backwards yet they thrust a nother way I should speake with more likelihode thē you haue done For althoughe you make a countenaunce and speake hotely against Anabaptistes yet in deede you strengthen their handes wyth reasons But I will not say so neither doe I thinke that you fauoure that secte but only the whirlewinde and tempest of your affection bent to maintaine this estate whereby you haue so great honoure and wealth driueth you vpon these rocks to wracke your selfe on and others For I pray you what communitie is spoken of either in the second thirde or fourth of the Actes whych ought not to be in the church as long as the world standeth was there any communitie but as touching the vse and so farre for the as the pore brethren had neede of and not to take euery man a like was it not in any man his power to sell his houses or landes or not to sell them When he had solde them was it not in euery man his libertie to keepe the money to hymselfe at his pleasure and all they that were of the Church did not sell their possessions but those whose heartes the Lord touched singularly wyth the compassion of the neede of others and whome God had blessed wyth aboundance that they had to serue them selues and helpe others and therefore it is reckened as a rare example that * Barnabas the Cyprian and Leuite did sel hys possessions and brought the price to the feete of the Apostles And as for Ananias Saphira they were not punished for because they brought not the price of their possessions to the Apostles but because they lyed saying that they had brought the whole when they had brought but parte And to be shorte is there any more done there then S. Paule prescribeth to the Corinthians and in them to all churches to the worldes end After he had exhorted to liberalitie towardes the pore churche in Ierusalem not sayth he that other should be releeued and you oppressed but vpon like condition at this time your aboundance supplieth their lacke that also their aboundance maye be for youre lacke that there might be equalitie as it is wrytten he that gathered much had nothing ouer and he that gathered little had not the les Surely it were better you were no Doctor in the Churche then that the Anabaptistes should haue suche holde to bring in their communitie as you geue them In summe the Apostolike communitie or the Churches in their time was not Anabaptisticall Vnto the place of the seconde Epistle to the Corinthians and. 8. chapter you aske what maketh that to the election of the ministers but why doe not you say heere as you did in the other place that the apostle meaneth nothing els but the putting on of the handes of them whych ordained for the same worde cheirotonetheis is heere vsed that was there and this place dothe manifestly and wythout all contradiction conuince your vaine signification that you make of it in the other place and the vntruthe saying that the scripture vseth thys woorde for a solemne manner of ordering ministers by putting on of handes For heere it is sayde that he that was ioyned wyth Paule was cheirotonetheis by the church and it is manifest that the imposition of hands was not by the church people but by the elders and ministers as it appeareth in s Paule to Timothe Now to come to that which you make so light of for say you how foloweth this the church chose Luke or Barnabas to be cōpanion of Paule his iourney Ergo the churches must chuse their ministers It followeth very well for if it were thought◠meete that Saynte Paule shoulde not chuse hym selfe of hys owne authoritie a companion to helpe hym being an Apostle is there any archbyshoppe that shall dare take vppon him to make a minister of the gospell being so many degrees bothe in authoritie and in all giftes needefull to discerne and trye oute or take knowledge of a sufficient minister of the gospell inferioure to S. Paule And if S. Paule woulde haue the authoritye of the churche to ordaine the Minister that shoulde ayde hym in other places for the gathering of reliefe of the poore Churches howe muche more did he thincke it meete that the Churches shoulde chuse their owne Minister whych should gouerne them Which things may be also sayde of the election in the first of the Actes for there the Churche firste chose two whereof one shoulde be an Apostle whych shoulde not be Minister of that Church but should be sent into all the world So that alwayes the Apostles haue shunned to do any thing of their owne willes without the knowledge eyther of those churches where they instituted any gouernors or if it were for the behofe of those places where there were no churches gathered yet would they ordaine none but by the consent of some other churche whych was already established You will not deny but that in the Apostles time and S. Cyprians time in many places the consent of the people was required shewe any one place where it was not Dothe not S. Luke say that it was done churche by churche that is in euery churche And where you say it endured but to S. Cyprians time it shall appeare to all men that it endured in the churche a thousande yeare and more after hys time And it appeareth in that he vsed it not as a thing indifferent but necessary and argueth the necessitye of it of the place of the first of the Acts which is alleaged by the authors of the Admonition and so they are not their argumentes that you throwe vp so scornefully saying how followeth this and this what proueth it but Cyprians whome by their sides you thrust throughe and so vnreuerently handle But you say these examples are no generall rules Examples of all the Apostles in all churches and in all purer times vncontrolied and vnretracted eyther by any the primitiue and purer churches or by any rule of the scripture I thinke ought to stand If
they declare manifest tokens of vnrepentantnes and then as rotten members that doe not onlye no good nor seruice in the bodye but also corrupt and infect others cut them off And if they do profit in hearing then to be adioyned vnto that church whych is next the place of their dwelling To the fifte in the. 45. page If there be no churches established because there are no christian Magistrates then the churches of the Apostles were not established And it is absurd to say that the ministers nowe wyth the helpe of the magistrate can laye surer foundations of the church or build more cunningly or substancially then the Apostles could whych were the master builders of the church of god And as for the consummation of the body of the church and the beautie of it seeing it consisteth in Iesus Christe whych is the heade that is alwayes ioyned vnseperably in all times of the crosse and not the crosse wyth his body whych is the church I can not see why the churches vnder persecution should not be established hauing bothe the foundation and the nether most partes as also the toppe and hyest parte of the churche as well as those whych haue a christian magistrate If in deede the magistrate whom God hath sanctified to be a nurse vnto his churche were also the head of the same then the church could not be established wythout the magistrate but we learne that although the godly magistrate be the head of the common wealth and a great ornament vnto the church yet he is but a member of the same The churche maye be established wythoute the magistrate and so that all the world and all the Deuilles of hell can not shake it but it can not be in quiet in peace and in outwarde suretie wythout a godly magistrate And therefore the churche in that respecte and suche like praiseth God and prayeth for the magistrate by the whych it enioyeth so singulare benefites Therevppon you conclude that the church was then populare whych is as vntrue as the former parte For the churche is gouerned wyth that kinde of gouernment whych the Philosophers that wryte of the best common wealthes affirme to be the best For in respecte of Christe the heade it is a Monarchie and in respecte of the auncientes and pastoures that gouerne in common and wyth like authoritie amongste them selues it is an Aristocratie or the rule of the best men and in respecte that the people are not secluded but haue their interest in churche matters it is a Democratie or a populare estate An image whereof appeareth also in the pollicye of thys Realme for as in respecte of the Queene her maiestie it is a Monarchie so in respecte of the moste honourable Counsell it is an Aristocratie and hauing regard to the Parliament whych is assembled of al estates it is a Democratie But you should haue shewed howe this difference of hauing a christian magistrate hauing none ought to bryng in a diuersity in the choise of the pastoure by their churche It were not harde if one woulde spende hys time so vnprofitably to finde oute a hundred differences betweene a persecuted church and that whych is in peace but seeing you can shewe me no reason why the church may not chuse her minister as well vnder a godly magistrate as vnder a tyrante I will shewe you howe that if it were lawfull to breake the order of God it were meeter in the time of persecution that the election shoulde be in some other discreate and learned persons hands to be made without the consent of the churche then in that time when there is a godly magistrate and that it is then most conuenient that he should be chosen by the church In the time of persecution a churche chuseth an vnlearned minister or one that is wicked in life howsoeuer it be he is vnfit the churches rounde about by their ministers or elders admonishe this church of her fault and moue to correct it the church will by no meanes be admonished what can nowe the other churches do in the time of persecution if they excommunicate the whole churche it is a hard matter yet if they may do that there is all they can do the euil is not remedied whych may be easely taken awaye where there is a godly magistrate and the churche as is before sayde compelled to a better choyse so you see that there are inconueniences in the chusing of the pastor and other the gouernors of the churche by the churche in the time of persecution whych are not in the time of peace vnder a christian magistrate Now I wil shew you which thinke that the consent of the church in their minister can not stand with the time of a christian magistrate that it hathe not only stode but hath bene cōfirmed in their times and by them In codice Iustiani it is thus wrytten following the doctrine of the holy Apostles c. we ordaine that as often as it shall fall out that the ministers place shall be voyde in any citie that voyces be geuen of the inhabiters of that city that he of three which for their right faith holines of life and other good things are most approued should be chosen to the Byshoprike whych is the moste meete of them Also Carolus Magnus whych was the first Germaine Emperoure in 63. distinct sacrorum canonum sayth being not ignorante of the holy Canons that the holy churche in the name of God should vse her honoure the freelyer we assent vnto the Ecclesiasticall order that the byshops be chosen by election of the cleargye and people according to the statutes of the canons of that diocesse In the. 63. distinction it appeareth that Ludouicus Carolus hys sonne decreed that he should be bishop of Rome whom all the people of Rome should cōsent to chuse Platina also in the life of pope Adrian 2. writeth that Ludouike the seconde by hys letters commaunded the Romaines that they shoulde chuse their owne bishop not loking for other mennes voyces whych being straūgers could not so well tell what was done in the common weale where they were straungers and that it appertained to the Citizens The same Platina witnesseth in the life of Pope Leo the. 8. that whē the people of Rome were earnest with the Emperoure Otho the first that he wold take awaye one Pope Iohn that liued very licentiously and riotously and place an other the same Emperoure answeared that it pertained to the cleargye and people to chuse one and willed them that they shoulde chuse and he woulde approue it and when they had chosen Leo and after put hym out wythout cause and chose one Pope Benet he compelled them to take Leo agayne Whereby appeareth that in those estates where Magistrates were Christian and where the estate was moste of all Monarchicall that is subiecte to ones gouernment that thys vse of the Churche remained and was confirmed by the Emperours and also when the churche put
oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
hand as fast as you builde with the other But to answere directly to the place of the fifthe of the first to Timothe I saye first that S. Paule wryteth to Timothe and therefore instructeth hym what he should do for his parte in the appoynting of the minister If he had written to the whole Churche of Ephesus he would lykewise haue instructed them how they should haue behaued thē selues in that businesse If one do wryte vnto hys frende that hath interest in any election to take heede that he chuse none but such as are meete shall any man conclude therupon that none hath to doe in that election but he to whom that letter is writtē Then I say further that S. Paule attributeth that vnto Timothe that was common to moe with hym because he being the director and moderator of the election is sayde to doe that whiche many doe which thing I haue proued by dyuers examples both out of the scripture and otherwise before And euen in this imposition of handes it is manifestly to be shewed For that where as S. Paule sayth in the 2. Epistle that Timothe was ordayned by the putting on of hys hands vppon hym in the first Epistle he sayth that he was ordayned by the putting on of the handes of the eldership So that that which he in one place taketh to him selfe alone in the other he communicateth with moe And that he dyd it not him selfe alone it may appeare by those wordes which folow and communicate not with other mens sinnes as if he should saye if other will ordeyne insuffycient ministers yet be not thou caryed away with their example And further that his authoritie was equall with other elders of that church and that he had no superioritie aboue his fellowes it may appeare for that he sayth lay thy hands rashly of none where if he had had authoritie ouer the rest he would rather haue sayd suffer none to lay his handes rashly Agayne it is a fault in you that you can not distinguishe or put difference betweene the election and imposition of handes Last of all I answere that although this might agree to Timothe alone as in deede it can not yet it followeth not that euery Bishop may do so For Timothe was an Euangelist which was aboue a Bishop as hereafter shall better appeare And it is an euill argument to say the greater may do it therfore the lesse may do it The superiour therfore the inferioure If you were at any cost with producing your witnesses you should not be so vnwise to be so lauishe of them as to cite Ambrose and Chrisostome to proue a thing that none hath euer denyed For who denyeth that S. Paule doth not geue warning to Timothe to be circumspect If you meane to vse their testimonie to proue that he only made the elections they saye neuer a word for you if there be any thing cite it To the place of Titus I answere as to that of Timothe for there is nothing there but agreeth also to thys place And as for Ierome he hath nothing in that place as he hath in no other to proue that to the Bishop only doth belong the right of election of the minister I haue shewed you reasons before why it cā not be so taken of the sole election of the Bishop the church being shutte out If authoritie woulde doe any good in thys behalfe as it seemeth it ought seeing that all your proofe throughe out the whole booke is in the authorities of men which Aristotle calleth atechnas peiseis vncunning proofes I coulde sende you to maister Calum which teacheth that it is not to be thought that S. Paule woulde permit to Titus to ordayne byshoppes and ministers by hys owne authoritie when he hym selfe would not take so much vpon hym but ioyned hys with the voyces of the church But he peraduenture sauoureth not your tast and yet you woulde make men beleue sometimes that you make muche of hym if you can gette but one worde vnioynted and racked in peeces from the rest to make good your part If hee weyghe not with you you haue maister Musculus whome you take to bee a great patrone of youres in thys cause which dothe with greater vehemencie affirme the same thing that mayster Caluin sayth asking whether any man can beleeue that Paisle permitted in thys place to Titus or in the place before alledged to Timothe that they shoulde ordayne of theyr owne authoritie and by them selues when as Paule woulde not doe it but by the voyces and election of the churche In the ende you say it is the generall consent of all the learned fathers that it belongeth to the byshop to chuse the minister Because you acquaint my eares with such bolde and vntrue affirmations I can now the more paciently heare you thus vaunting your selfe as though you had all the fathers by heart and caryed them about with you wheresoeuer you went whereas if a man woulde measure you by the skill in them which you haue shewed heere he woulde hardly beleeue that you had redde the tenthe part of them Are all the learned fathers of that mynde I thinke then you would haue bene better aduised then to haue sette downe but one when as you know a matter in controuersie will not be tryed but by two or three witnesses vnlesse the Lord speake hym selfe and therefore you geue me occasion to suspect that because you cite but one you know of no more now let vs see what your one witnesse will depose in thys matter And fyrst of all you haue done more wisely then simply in that you haue altered Ieromes wordes For where hee sayeth wherein doth a byshoppe differ from an elder but only in ordayning you say a byshop doth excell all other mynisters c. I report me heere vnto your conscience whether you dyd not of purpose chaunge Ieromes hys sentēce because you wold not let the reader vnderstand what oddes is betweene S. Ieromes bishops in his dayes betwene our Lord Bishoppes For then the byshop had nothing aboue an elder or other minister but only the ordayning of the minister Now he hath a thousande parishes where the minister hath but one For the matters also of the substaunce of the ministerie the bishop now excommunicateth which the minister can not absolueth or receyueth into the church which the minister can not Besides diuers other things which are meere ciuill which the byshop doth and which neither byshop nor other minister ought to doe I say I reporte me to your conscience whether you altered Ieromes wordes to thys ende that you would keepe thys from the knowledge of your reader or no. For answere to the place it is an euill argument to saye the byshop had the ordayning of the minister Ergo he had the election of hym the contrary rather is a good argument the byshop had the ordayning of the minister therefore he had not the election of hym For ordination
conscience For if so be that the white apparell of the minister haue any force either to moue the people or the minister vnto greater purenes or to any other godlynes whatsoeuer then it is that whych ought to be commaunded and to be obeyed of necessity and to be retained althoughe the contrarye were forbidden And then also if there be a vertue in a white garment and the signification therof be so strong to worke godlynes it were meete that order were taken that the whitest clothe should be bought that it should be often at the least euery weeke once washed by a very good launder and wyth sope for if the white helpe more white helpeth more and that whych is moste white helpeth moste of all to godlynes Although the church haue authoritye to make ceremonies so they be according to the rules before recited of Gods glory and profiting the congregation I coulde for all that neuer yet learne that it had power to giue newe significations as it were to institute newe sacramentes And by this meanes is taken cleane awaye from vs the holde whych we haue against the papistes whereby against all the goodly shewes whych they make by the coloure of these significations we say that the word of God and the sacramentes of baptisme and of the supper of the Lord are sufficient to teache to admonishe and to put vs in remembrance of all duetye whatsoeuer So we are nowe come to the superstition of the Grecians for as they will haue neyther grauen nor carued image in their Churches but painted so we wil nether haue grauen nor carued nor painted but wouē And truely I see no cause why we may not haue as wel holy water holy bread if this reason whych is here be good for I am sure the significations of them are as gloryous as this of the surplice and call to remembraunce as necessarye things And if it be sayde that it maye not be least the number of ceremonies shoulde be to too great it may be easely answeared that these whych we haue may be taken away and those set in place of them And therefore althoughe the surplice haue a blacke spot when it is whitest yet is it not so blacke as you make it wyth your white significations nor the cause so euill as you defend it If you pres me with M. Martyrs and M. Bucers authoritye I first say they were men therefore although otherwise very watchfull yet such as slept some times And then I appeale from their Apocryphas vnto their knowne wrytings and from their priuate letters vnto their publike recordes M. Doctor proceedeth to proue that they are signes and shewes of good and not of euill as the authors of the admonition alleage To the proufe wherof although according to his manner he repeateth diuers things before alleaged yet the summe of all he hath comprehended in an argument whych is that for so muche as the ministers are good whych weare them therfore they are also good and because the ministers whereof the apparell are notes and markes be good therefore those be good notes and good markes so the reason is they are notes and notes of good ministers therefore they be good notes of the ministers So I will proue the names of idolles to be fit and conuenient names for good men to be called by Beltshaser Shaddrake Misacke and Abed-nego were names of Daniell and hys three companions and they were the names of good men therefore they are good names of men And so the names of the Babylonian Idols are by thys reason of M. Doctor iustified to be good names Again the golden calfe was a signe Also it was a signe of the true God therefore it was a true signe of god Concerning the notes of ciuill professions and what difference is betweene those and thys cause I haue spoken before You say the cause of discorde is not in the apparell but in the mindes of men You meane I am sure those that refuse the apparell but if you make them authors of discord because they consent not wyth you in wearing do you not see it is as soone sayde that you are the causers of discorde because you doe not consent wyth those whych were not for as there should be vnitie in that poynte if all did weare that apparell so should there be if all did weare none of it It is a very vnequall comparison that you compare the vse of thys apparell wyth the vse of wine and of a sworde whych are profitable and necessary but it is more intollerable that you match it wyth the word of god I could throwe it as farre downe as you lifte it vp but I will not doe so Thys only I will saye if there were no harme in it and that it were also profitable yet for as much as it is not commaunded of God expresly but a thing as you say indifferent and notwithstanding is cause of so many incommodities and so abused as I haue before declared it ought to be sufficient reason to abolish them seing that the brasen serpent whych was instituted of the Lorde him selfe and contained a profitable remembrance of the wonderfull benefite of God towardes hys people was beaten to pouder when as it began to be an occasion of falling vnto the children of Israel and seeing that S. Paule after the loue feastes whych were kepte at the administration of the Lords supper and were meanes to nourishe loue amongst the churches were abused drawne to an other vse thē they were first ordained did vtterly take them away commaund that they shuld not be vsed any more The rest of that whych followeth in this matter is nothing else but either that whych hath bene often times repeated or else reprochefull words or vniust accusations of contempt of magistrates wythout any proufe at all and therfore are suche as eyther are answered or whych I will not voutchsafe to answere especially seeing that I meane not to giue reproche for reproche and reuiling for reuiling and seeing that I haue before protested of our humble submission and louing feare or reuerence whych we beare to the Prince and those whych are appoynted magistrates vnderneathe her And therfore I will conclude that for so muche as the ceremonies of Antichristianitie are not nor can not be the fittest to sette forthe the gospell and for that they are occasions of fall to some of hinderance to other some of griefe and alienation of mindes vnto others the contrary of all which ought to be considered in establishing of things indifferent in the churche therefore neyther is thys apparell fittest for the minister of the gospell and if it were yet considering the incommodities that come of the vse of it it should be remoued To the next section in the. 62. and. 63. pages YOu know they allow studying for sermones and amplifying and expoūding of the scriptures why then do you aske But by thys question you would haue
him both that which the apostles did and more too Then I say that it is too too vnskilfully done to seperate order and discipline from them that haue the ministerie of the word in hand as though the church without archbyshops and archdeacons were a confused heape and a disordered lumpe when as S. Paule teacheth it to be without them a body consisting of all his partes and members comely knitte and ioyned together wherein nothing wanteth nor nothing is too much Doth it not pertayne to order that the apostle sayth that God hath set first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers are not these wordes first second third differences of order if this be not order surely I know not what order is And yet neyther archbyshop nor archdeacon author of this and it was kept also before they were hatched Let vs see of disciplyne and gouernment which we may see to be committed to those which haue the preaching of the word and to others also which dyd not preach the worde when S. Paule sayth that the elders which gouerne wel are worthy double honor especially those which trauaile in the word Where he appoynteth the gouernement to the ministers of the worde and to those also that were not ministers of the worde And thereupon it followeth that the ministers of the church are not seuered one from an other as you seuer them because some haue the ministration of the worde and sacramentes only and some with the administration of the sacramentes and word haue also the gouernement and disciplyne in their handes but cleane contrariwise S. Paule distinguisheth them and sheweth that all the ministers in the church haue the gouermnent but all haue not the worde to handle so that he distinguisheth the ministerie into that whiche is occupyed in the worde and gouernment and into that which is occupyed in the gouernment only But in this distinction you do not only forget S. Paule but you forget your selfe For if S. Paule speake in that place of those that meddle with the ministring of the word and sacraments only why doth the bishop which is one of the ministers that S. Paule speaketh of being the same that pastor is why I say doth he meddle with the discipline and order of the church seeing that belongeth not to him by your distinction why doth also the archbishop whome you say is a bishop meddle with it and thus you see you neede no other aduersary then your selfe to confute you And least any man shoulde say I confute mine owne shadow I must let hym vnderstand that there is a pamphlet in Latine which is called the booke of the doctors which goeth from hande to hande and especially so farre as they coulde bring to passe to those only that they thought to fauoure that opynion in the which booke all these answeres vnto the place of the Ephesians are contayned and almost all that which is comprehended in thys defence of archbishops and archdeacons with other things also which are founde in this booke of M. Doctors and therefore it is very likely that he hauing no other way to vente hys rapsodies and rakings togither thought he would bring them to light after thys sorte but how much better had it bene that thys myshapen thing had had the mothers wombe for the graue or being brought out had bene hidden as the former is in some bench hole or darke place where it should neuer haue seene any light nor no mans eye should euer haue looked of it And thus all these cloudes being scattered by the sunne of truth you see that the place to the Ephesians standeth strong agaynst the archbishop and archdeacon Now will I reason also after thys sorte out of the place of the Ephesians and Corinthyans ioyned together There is no function but hathe giftes fitte and apte to discharge it annexed and geuen vnto it whereuppon the Apostle by a Metonomy doth call the Apostles Prophets c. giftes because they haue alwayes giftes ioyned with them Thys being graunted as no man can deny it I reason thus Those functions only are suffycient for the church which haue all the gifts needefull eyther for the mynistring of the worde and sacramentes or for the gouernement of the churche but all these functions reckened of S. Paule to the Ephesians with those which S. Paule calleth antilepseis and kyberneseis which are the deacons and elders haue the gifts needeful eyther for the gouernment of the church eyther else for the ministering of the worde and sacramentes therefore these functions only are sufficient for the church for it is a superfluous thing to make more offices then there be giftes to furnish them for so they that shoulde haue them shoulde rather be idols then officers And therefore for as much as there is no gift which falleth not into some of these functions it is altogether a vaine and vnprofitable thing to bring more offices and functions into the church besides these And so it may be thus reasoned If men may make and erect new ministeries they must eyther geue giftes for to discharge them or assure men that they shall haue giftes of God whereby they may be able to answere them But they can neyther geue giftes nor assure men of any giftes necessary to discharge those functions therefore they may make or erect no new ministeries Last of all I conclude agaynst these made and deuised ministeries of archbishops and archdeacons after this sort If men may adde ministeries they may also take away for those both belong to one authoritie but they can not take away those ministeries that God hath placed in his church therefore they can not adde to those that are placed in the church And this foundation I thought first to lay or euer I entred into M. Doctors not reasons but authorities not of God but of men in confuting of which there will fall forth also other arguments agaynst both these offices of archbishop and archdeacon Now I will come to the examining of your witnesses whereof some of them are so bored in the eares and branded in their foreheades that no man neede to feare any credite they shall get before any iudge wheresoeuer or before whomsoeuer they come but in the Romishe courte and the papistes only excepted For to let go Polidore Virgil because whatsoeuer hee sayth hee sayth of the credite of another lette vs come to Clement which is the author of this you speake And what is he is there any so blinde that knoweth not that this was nothing lesse then Clement of whome S. Paule speaketh and which * some thinke was the first bishop of Rome ordayned by Peter and not rather a wicked helhounde into whom the Lord had sent sathan to be a lying spirit in his mouth to deceiue them for their vnthankfull receiuing of the gospell And he must witnesse for the archbishop a worthy witnesse For as all that popishe hierarchie came out of the bottomlesse pitte of
must depose that the name of an archbyshop is not antychristian of whome as of Clement that went before and Anicetus which followeth after the common prouerbe may be verifyed Aske my fellow if I be a theefe And although the answerer be ashamed of hym and sayth therefore he will omit him yet euen very neede dryueth hym to bring hym in and to make hym speake the vttermost hee can And thys honest man sayth that Iames was the first archbyshop of Ierusalem But Eusebius sayth Iames was byshop not archbyshop of Ierusalem and appoynted by the apostles And in an other place he sayth that the apostles dyd appoynt after hys death Simeon the sonne of Cleophas byshop of Ierusalem And Ireneus sayeth that the apostles in all places appoynted byshops vnto the churches whereby it may appeare what an idle dreame it is of Clement Volusianus and Anacletus eyther that Peter dyd thys by his owne authoritie or that the primitiue churche was euer staynes wyth these ambytious tytles of patriarche prymate metropolytane or archbyshoppe when as the storyes make mention that thoroughe out euery churche not chery prouince not by Peter or Paule but by apostles a byshop not an archbyshop was appoynted And heere you put me in remembraunce of an other argument agaynst the archbyshop which I will frame after thys sorte If there shoulde be any archbyshop many place the same shoulde be eyther in respect of the persone or minister and hys excellencie or in respecte of the magnificence of the place but the most excellent mynisters that euer were in the most famous places were no archbyshops but byshops only therefore there is no cause why there shoulde be any archbyshop For if there were euer mynister of a congregation worthy that was Iames if there were euer any citte that ought to haue thys honor as that the mynister of it should haue a more honorable title then the mynisters of other cities and townes that was Ierusalem where the sonne of God preached and from whence the gospell issued out vnto all places And afterwarde that Ierusalem decayed and the church there Antioche was a place where the notablest men were that euer haue bene since which also deserued great honoure for that there the * disciples were first called christians but neyther was that called the first and cheefest church neyther the mynisters of it called the Arche or principal byshoppes And Eusebius to declare that thys order was firme and durable sheweth that S. Iohn the Apostle which ouer lyued the residue of the Apostles ordayned byshops in euery church These two Anacletus and Anicetus you say are suspected why do you say suspected when as they haue bene conuinced and condemned and stande vppon the pillery with the cause of forgerie written in great letters that he which runneth may reade Some of the papistes them selues haue suspected them but those which mayntayne the truth haue condemned them as full of popery full of blasphemy and as those in whome was the very spirit of contradiction to the Apostles and their doctryne And do you marke what you say when you say that these are but suspected Thus much you say that it is suspected or in doubt whether the whole body of poperie and antichristianitie were in the Apostles time or sone after or no for Clement was in the Apostles time and their scholer and so you leaue it in dout whether the apostles appoynted and were the authors of popery or no. I thinke if euer you had red the Epistles you woulde neuer haue cited their authorities nor haue spoken so fauourably of them as you doe You come after to the councel of Nice wherin I wil not sticke with you that you say it was holden the CCC xxx yeare of the Lorde when as it maye appeare by Eusebius hys Computation that it was holden Anno Domini CCC xx and heere you take so greate a leape that it is enoughe to breake the archbishoppes necke to skippe at once CCC yeares that is from the tyme of the apostles vntill the time of the councell of Nice wythout any testimony of any either father or storie of faithe and credite whych maketh once mention of an archbishop What no mention of hym in Theophilus byshop of Antioche none in Ignatius none in Clemens Alexandrinus none in Iustin Martyr in Ireneus in Tertullian in Origine in Cyprian none in all those olde Historiographers out of the whych Eusebius gathereth hys story Was it for his basenes and smalnes that he could not be seene amongst the byshops elders and deacons being the cheefe and principall of them all can the Ceder of Lebanon be hid amongst the boxe trees Aristotle in his Rhethorike ad Theodecten sayeth that it is a token of contempt to forget the name of an other belike therefore if there were any archbishop he had no chaire in the church but was as it semeth digging at the metalles For otherwise they that haue filled their bookes wyth the often mentioning of bishops would haue no doubt remembred him But let vs heare what the councell of Nice hath for these titles In the. 6. canon mention is made of a metropolitane bishop what is that to the metropolitane whych is now either to the name or to the office of the office it shal appeare afterwards In the name I thinke there is a great differēce betwene a metropolitane bishop metropolitane of England or of al England A Metropolitane bishop was nothing els but a bishop of that place which it pleased the Emperor or magistrate to make the chefe citie of the diocese or shire and as for thys name it maketh no more difference betwene bishop and bishop then when I say a minister of London and a minister of Nuington There is no man that is well aduised whych will gather of thys saying that there is as great difference in preheminence betweene those two ministers as is betweene London and Nuington for his office and preheminence we shall see hereafter There are alledged to proue the names of archbyshops patriarkes archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the councel of Nece For the. 25. 26. 27. there are no such canons of that councell and although there be a thirtenthe canon there is no worde of patriarke or archdeacon there contained And I maruell wyth what shame you can thruste vppon vs these counterfaite canons whych come out of the popes minte yea and whych are not to be found Theodoret sayeth that there are but twentie Canons of the councell of Neece and those twentie are in the tome of the councels and in those there is no mention of any patriarke archdeacon archbishop Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twenty but in lengthe and in none of those are found any of these names of archbishop archdeacon patriarke And it is as lawfull for M. Harding to alledge the. 44. canon of the coūcell of Nece to proue the supremacie
muche for the Pope as for the archbyshoppe For although they be two heades yet they stande vpon one necke and therfore the reformed churches whych cutte right did strike them bothe of at one blowe In neyther of the sentences heere alledged out of Cyprian nor in all his works as hath bene before noted is there one worde of an archbyshop and yet M. doctor sayeth that he speaketh of an archbyshop Before he shewed the name wythout the office and now he goeth about to shew the office wythout the name so that he can neuer make bothe the name and office meete together To shape out an archbyshop heere you must needes interpreate the wordes byshop and priest archbyshop and hygh priest for Cyprian maketh mention of no other name of ministerie in those places And if you maye haue thys scope of interpreating it wil not be harde for you to proue that stones be bread and that chaulke is cheese Let vs see what is a byshop or priest I vse the name of priest against my wil but because it is sacerdos you so trāslate it that it may be better vnderstanded what I answere to you I am content to followe you so farre I say let vs consider what is a byshop or priest by S. Cyprian and thereby we shall knowe what an archbyshop he setteth forthe vnto vs Whych thing may appeare manifestly by that which he sayeth in the same Epistle that the byshop that is appoynted into the place of hym that is dead is chosen peaceably by the voyce of all the people I thincke you will not say that all the people through oute the whole prouince or through out a whole diocese as we count a diocese mette togither for that had bene bothe a great disorder and confusion a great charge to the church and in the time of persecution as that was to haue offered the whole church in all the prouince into the mouthe of the wolfe And least peraduenture you shoulde haue thys hole to hide your selfe in saying that it might be procured that in euery church or parishe through out eyther the prouince or diocese the consent of the people might be asked and they tary in their places where they dwel Cyprian in the next epistle doth put the matter out of all question saying that the priest whome he after calleth byshop is chosen in the presence of the people in the eyes of all so that Cyprians byshop whome you will needes haue an archbyshop had neither prouince nor diocese as we call a diocese but only a church or congregation suche as the ministers and pastors wyth vs whych are appoynted vnto seuerall townes Which may further appeare in that Cyprian sayeth that out of one prouince there were 90. bishops whych condemned Priuatus Nowe if there were 90. byshops in one prouince whych met and yet not all that were in that prouince as may appeare out of the same Epistle all men do vnderstand that the scope that Cyprians byshop or archbyshop as you will haue him had was no suche thing as a diocese or a prouince I coulde bring infinite testimonies out of Cyprian to proue that the byshop in his time was nothing else but S. Paules byshop that is one that had cure and charge of one flocke whych was so placed as it might be taught of hym and ouerseene by him and gouerned by hym and of whom in matters pertaining to God it myght depend Furthermore to shape the archbyshop by these places of Cyp. you must be driuen to expound this word church prouince The papistes which cite thys place for the pope as you doe for the archbishop expounde the worde churche heere to be the whole church vniuersal and catholike and in dede although it be falsly expounded so in thys place yet may they doe it wyth more probability and likelyhode then to expound it a prouince forsomuch as these words the church is oftner red both in the scripture and old wryters to signify the whole church then any prouince of one realme But lette Cyprian expounde him selfe what he meaneth by a church heere although that may easely appeare by that whych is spoken of S. Cyprian hys bishop Wheras Cyprian declareth that Cornelius the bishop of the church which was in Rome would not let Felicissimum a Nouation hereticke being caste oute by the byshoppes of Affricke to enter into the church he declareth sufficiently that he meaneth that companye of the faithfull whych were gathered togither at Rome to heare the word and to communicate at the sacramentes For it was not Cornelius part to shutte him out of the prouince neither indeede could he him selfe being not able without hazard by reason of the persecution that then was to tary in any part of the prouince Againe speaking against the Nouatian hereticke he sheweth that throughe hys wicked opinion of denying of repentance to those that were fallen the confession of faults in the churche was hindred Nowe it is manifest that confession was not made through out the prouince but in that particulare church where the partye dwelt that committed the fault Therefore Cyprian vnderstandeth by the name of the church neither diocese as we call diocese and muche les a whole prouince And in the same Epistle speaking of those whych had fallen he sayeth that they durst not come so much as to the thresholde or entry of the churche where he also opposeth the church to the prouince saying that they roue about the prouince and run about to deceiue the brethren Seeing therefore the byshop whych Cyprian speaketh of is nothing else but such as we call pastor or as the common name with vs is parson and his church wherof he is bishop is neither diocese nor prouince but a congregation whych mete togither in one place to be taught of one man what should M. doctor meane to put on this great name of archbyshop vpon so small a byshoppricke as it were Saules great harnes vpon Dauid hys little body or as if a man should set a wide huge porche before a little house And least that M. doctor should say that notwithstanding the bishops had but seuerall churches yet one of them might haue either a title more excellēt then the rest or authority and gouernment ouer the rest that shall be likewise considered out of Cyprian And first for the title and honor of archbishop it appeareth how Cyprian held that as a proud name for that he obiecteth to Florentius as a presumptuous thing for that in beleuing certaine euill reports of hym and misiudging of him he did appoynt him selfe bishop of a bishop and iudge ouer hym which was for the time appoynted of God to be iudge And heerein also I may vse the same reasons which the godly writers of our times vse against the pope to proue that he had no superiority in those dayes ouer other bishops for that the other bishops called him brother and he them called him fellow bishop he
we shall hold out of the church the vnwrytten verities of the papists for my part if it be true that you say I can not tell what to answer vnto them For our answere is to thē the apostles haue left a perfect rule of ordering the church wrytten and therfore we reiect their traditions if for no other cause yet because they are superfluous and more then neede Now this degree of archbishop being not only not mentioned in the scriptures but also manifestly oppugned it is too bold and hardy a speache that I say no more to fetch the petegree of the archbyshop from the apostles times and from the apostles them selues But all thys time M. Doctor hath forgotten hys question whych was to proue an archbyshop wheras all these testimonies whych he alledgeth make mētion only of a bishop and therfore thys may rather confirme the state of the byshop in this realme thē the archbyshop But in the answere vnto them it shall appeare that as there is not in these places so much as the name of an archbyshop mentioned so except only the name of a bishop there shal be found very little agreemēt betwene the bishops in those dayes and those whych are called byshops in our time with vs. And consequently although M. doctor thought wyth one whiting boxe to haue whited two wals by establishing our archbyshop and byshop by the same testimonies of the fathers yet it shal be plaine that in going about to defend both he left both vndefended Let vs therfore come first to examine Ieroms reasons why one must be ouer the rest for in the testimony of men that is only to be regarded whych is spoken eyther wyth some authority of the scripture or wyth some reason grounded of the scripture otherwise if he speake wythout eyther scripture or reason he is as easely reiected as alledged One sayth he being chosen to be ouer the rest bringeth remedy vnto schismes how so least euery man sayeth he drawing to him selfe to breake the church in peeces But I would aske if the church be not in as great danger when all is done at the pleasure and lust of one man and when one caryeth all into error as when one pulleth one peece wyth him another an other peece and the third hys partalso wyth him And it is harder to draw many into an error then one or that many should be caryed away by their affections then one whych is euident in water whych if it be but a little it is quickly troubled and corrupted but being much it is not so easely But by thys ecclesiasticall Monarchie all things are kept in peace Nay rather it hath bene the cause of discord and well spring of most horrible schisme as it is to be seene in the very decretals them selues And admit it were so yet the peace whych is wythout truth is more execrable thē a thousand contentions For as by striking of two flintes togither there commeth out fire so it may be that sometimes by contention the truth whych is hidden in a darke peace may come to light whych by a peace in naughtines and wickednes being as it were buryed vnder the ground doth not appeare If therfore superiority domination of one aboue the rest haue such force to keepe men from schismes when they be in the truth it hath as great force to kepe them togither in error and so besides that one is easier to be corrupted then many thys power of one bringeth as great incommodity in keping them in error if they fall into it as in the truth if they are in it Moreouer if it be necessary for the keping of vnity in the church of England that one archbyshop should be primate ouer all why is it not as meete that for the keping of the whole vniuersall church there should be one archbyshop or byshop ouer all and the like necessity of the byshop ouer all christendome as of the byshop of all England vnles peraduenture it be more necessary that there should be one byshop ouer the vniuersall church then ouer the church of England for as much as it is more necessary that peace should be kept and schismes be auoyded in the vniuersali church then in the particulare church of England If you say that the archbyshop of England hath hys authority graunted of the Prince the Pope of Rome will say that Constantine or Phocas whych was Emperor of all christendome did graunt him hys authority ouer all churches But you will say that it is a lie but the Pope will set as good a face and make as great a shew therin as you do in diuers poynts here But admit it to be a lie as in dede it is touching Constantine yet I say further that it may come to passe it hath ben that there may be one Christian Cesar ouer all the realmes whych haue churches What if he then will geue that authority to one ouer all that one king graunteth in hys land may any man accept and take at hys hand such authority and if it be not lawful for him to take that authority tel me what fault you can finde in him whych may not be found in them It will be sayd that no one is able to do the office of a byshop vnto all the whole church neither is there any one able to do the office of a byshop to the whole church of England For when those which haue ben most excellent in knowledge and wisedome and most ready and quicke in doing and dispatching matters being alwayes present haue found enough to do to rule and gouerne one seuerall congregation what is he whych absent is able to discharge hys duety toward so many thousand churches And if you take exception that although they be absent yet they may do by vnder ministers as by Archdeacons Chauncellors Officials Commissaries and such other kinde of people what doe you else say then the Pope whych sayeth that by hys Cardinalles and archbyshoppes and Legates and other suche like he doeth all things For wyth their hands he ruleth all and by their feete he is present euerye where and wyth their eyes he seeth what is done in all places Let them take heede therfore least if they haue a common defence wyth the Pope that they be not also ioyned nearer wyth hym in the cause then peraduenture they be aware of Truely it is against my will that I am constrained to make suche comparisons not that I thinke there is so great diuersity betweene the Popedome and the archbyshoppricke but because there being greate resemblance betweene them I meane hauing regarde to the bare functions wythout respecting the doctrine good or badde whych they vpholde that I say there being great resemblance betweene them there is yet as I am persuaded great difference betweene the parsons that execute them The whych good opinion conceyued of them I we moste humbly beseeche them by the glory of God by the libertye of
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
whether a man consider the schollers that learne or the scholemaisters whych teach or the orders appoynted for the gouernment of the scholes they shall be found to be rather ciuill then ecclesiasticall and therfore can not come in stead of any ecclesiasticall ministery If the byshop do meane that they come in place of the gift of tongues and knowledge of the gospell that was first geuen miraculously I graunt it and then it maketh nothing to this question As for byshops they can not come in place of apostles or prophets for as much as they were when the Apostles Euangelists and Prophets were and are one of those ministeries whych S. Paul mentioneth in the. 4. to the Ephesians being the same that is the pastor There remaineth therfore the archbyshop whych if he came in place of the Prophets and apostles as the byshop sayeth howe commeth it to pas that the byshop sayeth by and by oute of the authoritye of Erasmus that Titus was an archbyshop for at that time there was bothe apostles prophets and Euangelists If it be so therfore that the archbyshop must supply the want of apostles c. howe commeth it to pas he wayteth not hys time whilest they were deade but commeth in like vnto one whych is borne oute of time and like the vntimely and hasty frute whych is seldome or neuer wholesome And for one to come into the apostles or prophets place requireth the authority of him whych ordained the apostles c. whych is the Lord and hys institution in hys word whych is that whych we desire to be shewed But heereof I haue spoken before at large The necessity of Deanes I do not acknowledge and I haue already spoken of them Touching Prebendaries I shall haue occasion to speake a worde heereafter For Earles and Dukes and such like titles of honor they are ciuil neither doth it folowe that because there may newe titles or newe offices be brought into the ciuile gouernement that therefore the same may be attempted in the church For God hath left a greater liberty in instituting thyngs in the common wealth then in the churche For for so much as there be diuers common wealthes and diuers formes of common wealthes and all good it falleth oute that the offices and dignityes whych are good in one common wealth are not good in an other as those which are good in a Monarchie are not good in Aristocratie and those which are good in Aristocratie are not good in a populare state But that can not be sayde of the churche whych is but one and vniforme and hathe the same lawes and forme of gouernment throughout the worlde In common wealths also there are conuersions one forme being changed into an other whych can not be in the true church of god As for Erasmus authoritye whych sayeth that Titus was an archbyshop I haue answeared to it And whereas Chrysostome sayeth that the iudgement of many byshops was committed to Titus I haue declared in what sorte that is to be vnderstanded and yet vpon those words the byshop can hardly conclude that whych he doth that Titus had the gouernment of many byshops For it is one thing to say the iudgement of many was committed vnto Titus and an other thyng to say that he had the gouernement of many The answer of the byshop vnto the fourth supposed reason pertaineth vnto an other question that is whether ecclesiasticall persons ought to exercise ciuil iurisdiction whervnto I will answer by Gods grace when I come to speake vpon occasion of M. Doctors boke of that question In the meane season I wil desire the reader to consider what weake grounds the archbyshop and archdeacon stand vpon seeing that the byshop of Sarum being so learned a man and of so great reading coulde say no more in their defence whych notwythstanding in the controuersies agaynst D. Harding is so pithy and so plentifull Now I haue shewed how little those things whych M. doctor bringeth make for proufe of that wherfore he alledgeth them I will for the better vnderstanding of the reader set downe what were the causes why the archbishops were first ordained and what were their prerogatiues and preheminēces before other byshops and the estate also of the old byshops whych liued in those times wherin althoughe there were great corruptions yet the church was in some tollerable estate to the entent it may appeare partly how little nede we haue of them now and partly also howe greate difference there is betweene oures and them Of the names of Metropolitane it hath bene spoken howe that he shoulde not be called the cheefe of priests or the high priest or byshop of byshops nowe I will sette downe hys office and power whych he had more then the byshops In the councell of Antioche it appeareth that the byshop of the metropolitane seate called Synodes propounded the matters whych were to be handled c. the archbyshop doth not nowe call Synodes but the Prince dothe for as much as there is no conuocation wythout a parliament he doth not propound the matters and gather the voyces but an other chosen whych is called prolocutor therfore in the respect that an archb metropolitane was first ordained we haue no neede of an archb or metropolitane Againe an other cause also appeareth there whych was to see that the byshoppes kepte them selues wythin their owne dioceses and brake not into an others diocese But first this may be done wythout an archbyshop and then it is not done of the archb hym selfe geuing licences vnto the wandring ministers to go throughout not so few as a dosen dioceses therefore the office of an archb is not necessarye in thys respecte and if it were yet it must be other then it is nowe Againe the cause whye the metropolitane differed from the rest and whye the calling of the Synode was geuen to hym as it appeareth in the same coūcel was for that the greatest concourse was to that place and most assembly of men whervnto also may be added for that there was the best commodity of lodging of vitailing and for that as it appeareth in other councels it was the place and seate of the Empire But wyth vs neyther the greatest concourse nor assemblye of men nor the greatest commodity of lodging and vitailing neyther yet the seate of the kingdome is in the metropolitane city therefore wyth vs there is no suche cause of a metropolitane or archbyshop In the councel of Carthage holden in Cyprians time it appeareth that no byshop had authority ouer an other to compell an other or to condemne an other but euery byshop was left at hys owne liberty to answer vnto God and to make hys accompt vnto Christ and if any thing were done against any bishop it was done by the consent of all the byshops in the prouince or as many as coulde conueniently assemble Therefore Cyprian whych was the metropolitane byshop had then no authoritye ouer the rest
and yet then there being no christian magistrate whych woulde punishe the disorders whych were committed of the christian byshops there was greatest neede that there shoulde haue bene some one whych might haue had the correction of the rest If therefore when there was moste neede of thys absolute authoritie there neyther was nor myght be anye suche it followeth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate whych maye and oughte to punishe the disorders of all Ecclesiasticall persons and may and ought to call them to accoumpt for their faultes that there shoulde be no suche neede of an archbyshop The moderation of their authority in the auncient times may appeare first by a Canon whych is falsly geuen to the apostles being as it is like a Canon of the councell of Antioche wherin although it ordaineth one primate in euery nation ouer the rest and will not suffer any great matter to be done wythout him as also will not suffer him to do any thing wythout the rest yet euery B. might do that whych appertained vnto hys own parish wythout hym and he nothing to do wyth hym in it But as it seemeth the meaning of the Canon was that if there were any waighty matter to be concluded for all the churches in the natiō then the byshops of euery parish should not enterprise any thing without calling hym to counsell Now we see that the archb medleth with that whych euery byshop doth in hys owne diocese and hath hys visitations for that purpose will take any matter out of their hands concludeth also of diuers matters neuer making the byshops once priuy to hys doings Higinus or as some thincke Pelagius I speake heere as Platina reporteth not thincking that in Higinus time there was any Metropolitane ordained that no Metropolitane should condemne any byshop onles the matter were first bothe harde and discussed by the byshoppes of that prouince at what time and after a great while a bishop was the same we cal a minister Now the archbyshop will wythout any further assistance or discussion by others suspend hym and in the ende also throwe him oute of hys charge and if he haue the same authority ouer a byshop as a byshop ouer the minister as it is sayd he may do the like vnto hym also The councell of Antioche ordained that if the voyces of the byshops were euen and that if halfe did condemne hym and halfe cleare hym that then the metropolitane byshop shoulde call of the nexte prouince some other byshops whych should make an end of the controuersy Wherby appeareth that the Metropolitane had so small authority and power ouer and aboue the rest that he had not so much as the casting voyce when bothe sides were euen and therefore it appeareth that besides the names of metropolitane there was little or no resemblance betweene those that were then and those whych be now Now to consider how the byshops whych are now differ from the byshops whych were in times past I must call to thy remembrance gentle reader that whych I haue spoken before which was that then there was as appeareth out of Cyprian and Ierome and others one byshop in euery parishe or congregation nowe one is ouer a thousande then euery byshop had a seuerall church where he preached and ministred the sacraments nowe he hath none then he ruled that one churche as I shewed oute of Ierome in common wyth the Elders of the same nowe he ruleth a thousande by hym selfe shutting oute the ministers to whome the rule and gouernement belongeth then he ordained not any minister of the churche except he were first chosen by the presbiterie and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordained nowe he ordaineth where there is no place voyde and of hys priuate authority wythout either choise or approbation of presbyterie or people then he excommunicated not nor receiued the excōmunicated but by sentences of the eldership and consent of the people as shall appeare afterward nowe he dothe bothe And thus you see that contrary to the woorde of God he hathe gotten into hys owne hande and pulled to him selfe bothe the preheminence of the other ministers and the liberties of the church whych God by his word had geuen And as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauaile those they haue turned vnto the other ministers as for example in times past it was not lawfull for hym that was then an elder to preache or minister the sacraments in the presence of the byshop because the bishop him selfe should do it and now those which they call elders may preach and minister the sacraments by the byshops good licence although he be present Now if you will also consider how much the Lordship pompe and statelines of the byshops in our dayes differ from the simplicity of them in times past I will geue you also a taste thereof if first of all I shewe the beginning or as it were the fountaine wherevpon the pompe grewe whych was when in steade of hauing a byshop in euery parishe and congregation they began to make a bishop of a whole diocese and of a thousand congregations In an epistle of ʒacharie vnto Pope Boniface it is thus wrytten it hath bene oftentimes decreed that there shoulde not be a byshop appoynted in euerye village or little citie least they should waxe vile through the multitude whereby it bothe appeareth that there was wonte to be a byshop in euery parishe and vpon howe corrupte and euill consideration one byshoppe was sette ouer a whole diocese No doubte those that were authoures of thys had learned too well our olde prouerb the fewer the better cheare but the more byshops the meryer it had bene wyth Gods people And they might wyth as good reason hinder the sunne from shining in al places the raine from falling vpon al grounds for feare they should not be set by being common as to bring in such a wicked decree wherby vnder pretence of deliuering the byshop from contempt they sought nothing else but an ambitious and stately Lordshyp ouer those whych had not that title of bishop that they had althoughe they did the office of a byshop better then they dyd And what intollerable presumption is thys to chaunge the institution of God as though he whych ordained not one only but some nomber more or les of byshops in euery church did not sufficiently foresee that the multitude and plentye of byshops coulde breede no contempt of the office And it may be as well ordained that the children of pore men shoulde not call them that begate them fathers and mothers but only the childrē of the rich and of noble least that if euery man that hathe children shoulde be called a father fathers should be sette nothyng by And heere let vs obserue by what degrees and staires Sathan lifted the childe of perdition vnto that proude title of vniuersall byshop First where the Lorde did ordaine that
certeine noble and rich men being chosen to the ministerie and lyuing somewhat like vnto the former estates wherein they were before others also assayed to be like vnto them as we see in that poynt the nature of man is too ready to follow if they see any example before theyr eyes But there is no reason because Ambrose and such lyke dyd so therefore our byshops shoulde do it of the churches costes Nor because Ambrose and such like dyd tary in their trim houses which they had built them selues of theyr owne charge before they were byshops that therefore they shuld come out of theyr chambers or narow houses into courtes and palaces builded of the churches costes An other reason of thys pompe and statelynes of the byshoppes was that which almost brought in all poyson and popishe corruption into the church and that is a foolish emulation of the maners and fashions of the Idolatrous nations For as thys was the craft of sathan to draw away the Israelites from the true seruice of God by theyr fond desire they had to conforme them selues to the fashyons of the gentiles so to punish vnthankefull receiuing of the gospell and to fulfill the Prophesies touching the man of sinne the Lord suffered those that professed Christ to corrupt theyr wayes by the same sleyght of the Deuill Galerianus Maximinus the Emperor to the end that he myght promote the Idolatry and superstition whereunto he was addicted chose of the choysest magistrates to be priestes and that they myght be in great estimation gaue eche of them a trayne of men to follow them And the christians and christian Emperours thinking that that would promote the christian relygion that promoted superstition and not remembring that it is often times abhomynable before God which is esteemed in the eyes of men endeuoured to make theyr byshops encounter and match with those Idolatrous priestes and to cause that they should not be inferior to them in wealth and outward pompe And therfore I conclude that seing the causes and fountaynes from whence thys pompe and statelynes of byshops haue come are so corrupt and naught the thing it selfe which hath rysen of such causes can not be good And thus will I make an end leauing to the consideration and indifferent waying of the indifferent reader how true it is that I haue before propounded that our Archbyshops Metropolitanes Archdeacons Byshops haue besides the names almost nothing common with those which haue bene in elder tymes before the sunne of the gospell began to be maruellously darkned by the stincking mistes which the deuill sent forth out of the bottomles pit to blynde the eyes of men that they shoulde not see the shame and nakednes of that purpled whore which in the person of the cleargy long before she gat into her seate prepared her selfe by paynting her wrythen face with the couloures of these gorgeous titles and with the shew of magnifycall and worldly pompe For the deuill knew well enough that if he should haue sette vp one only byshoppe in that seate of perdition and left all the rest in that simplicitie wherein God had appoynted them that hys eldest sonne shoulde neyther haue had any way to gette into that and when he had gotten it yet being as it were an owle amongst a sort of birdes shoulde haue bene quickly discouered But I haue done only thys I admonishe the reader that I doe not allow of all those thinges which I before alleaged in the comparison betwene our Archbyshoppes and the Archbyshops of olde tyme or our byshoppes and theirs Only my entent is to shew that although there were corruptions yet in respect of ours they be much more tollerable and that it might appeare how smale cause there is that they should alleage theyr examples to confirme the Archbyshops and Byshops that now are Concerning the offices of commissionership and how vnmeete it is that mimisters of the worde should exercise them and how that the worde of God doth not permitte any such confusion of offices there shal be by Gods grace spoken of it afterwarde To your answere also vnto the places of S. Mathew and Luke the reply is made before The place of the fourthe of the first to the Corinthyans is well alledged for it teacheth a moderate estymation of the mynisters and a meane betwene the contempt and excessiue estymation neyther can there be any redyer way to breede that disorder which was amongst the Corinthyans as to say I holde of such a one and I of such a one and I of such an other then to sette vp certayne mynisters in so hyghe Titles and great shew of worldly honoure For so commeth it to passe that the people will saye I beleeue my Lord and my Lord archbyshoppe whatsoeuer oure parson say for they bee wyse men and learned as wee see it came to passe amongst the Corrinthyans For the Apostles because they hadde a shewe and outwarde pompe of speache they caryed away the people For althoughe Saynt Paule sayeth that some sayde I holde of Paule I holde of Apollo I of Cephas yet as it appeareth in an other place they helde one of thys braue eloquent teacher an other of that For hee translated these speaches vnto hym and hys fellowes by a fygure All that rule is tyrannycall whiche is not lawfull and is more then it oughte to bee and therfore the place of Saynt Peter is fitly alleaged whereof also I haue spoken some thing before You are you say of Hemingius mynde and thincke that thys opynion smelleth of Anabaptisme I haue shewed how you haue depraued and corrupted Hemingius and desire you to shew some better reason of your opynion autos ephe will not suffice vs You say that if we had once obtayned equalitie amongst the cleargie we would attempt it in the laitie In what starre doe you see that Maister Doctor Moyses sayth that if a man speake of a thing to come and it come not to passe as he hath spoken that that man is a false Prophet if your prophesie come not to passe you know your iudgement already out of Moyses The Pharisies when our sauiour Christ inueighed agaynst their ambytion accused hym that he was no freende to Cesar and went about to discredite hym with the cyuill Magistrate you shall apply it your selfe you will needes make the Archbyshoppe c. neyghboures vnto the cyuill Magistrates and yet they almost dwell as farre a sonder as Rome and Ierusalem and as Syon and S. Peters Church there so that the house of the archbyshoppe may bee burnt sticke and stone when not so much as the smoke shall approche the house of the cyuill magistrate In the. 116. page for the authoritie of the archbyshoppe is alleaged the nynthe Canon of the Councell of Antioch which I haue before alleaged to proue how farre different the authoritie of the Metropolitane in those times was from that which is now For there the Councell sheweth that euery Byshoppe
in hys Diocese hath the ordering of all matters within the circuite thereof and therfore the meaning of the Councell to bee that if there be any affaires that touche the whole Churche many lande that the Byshoppes shoulde doe nothing without making the Metropolitane priuy as also the Metropolitane myght doe nothing without making the other Byshops a counsell of that which he attempted which maister Doctor doth cleane leaue out And if thys authoritie which the councell geueth to the Metropolitane being nothing so excessiue as the authorytie of our Metropolitanes now had not bene ouer much or had bene iustifiable what needed men father thys Canon which was ordayned in thys councell of the Apostles for the seeking falsly of the name of the Apostles to geue creadite vnto thys Canon doth cary with it a note of euill and of shame which they woulde haue couered as it were with the garment of the Apostles authoritie And in the hundreth twentie and three page to that which Maister Bucer sayeth that in the Churches there hath bene one which hath beene cheefe ouer the rest of the mynisters if he meane one cheefe in euery particulare churche or one cheefe ouer the mynisters of dyuers churches meeting at one Synode and cheefe for the time and for such respectes as I haue before shewed then I am of that mynde which he is And if he meane any other cheefe or after any other sort I deny that any such cheefety was from the Apostles tymes or that any suche cheefetie pleaseth the holye ghoste whereof I haue before shewed the proufes And wheras M. Bucer seemeth to allow that the name of a byshop which the holy ghost expresly geueth to all the ministers of the word indifferently was appropriated to certen cheefe gouernoures of the church I haue before shewed by dyuers reasons how that was not done without great presumption and manifest daunger and in the end great hurt to the church And if M. Doctor delyght thus to oppose mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holy ghost and to the reasons which are grounded out of the scripture M. Caluin doth openly misselyke of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certayne which the holy ghost maketh common to moe And whereas of M. Caluines wordes which sayth that there be degrees of honor in the mynistery M. Doctor would gather an archbyshop if he had vnderstanded that an Apostle is aboue an Euangelist an Euangelist aboue a pastor a pastor aboue a doctor and he aboue an elder that ruleth only he needed neuer to haue gone to the popish Hierarchie to seeke hys dyuersities of degrees which he myght haue founde in S. Paule And whereas vpon M. Caluines words which sayeth that Paule was one of the cheefe amongst the Apostles he would seeme to conclude an archbyshop amongst the byshops he should haue remembred that S. Paules cheeftie amongst the Apostles consisted not in hauing any authoritie or domynion ouer the rest but in labouring and suffering more then the rest and in giftes more excellent then the rest Now where as hee sayeth that we desire to pull the rule from others that the rule myght be in oure handes and we myght doe what we list and that we seeke to wythdraw oure selues from controlement of Prince and Byshoppe and all Firste hee may learne if hee will that wee desire no other authoritie then that which is to the edifying of the church and which is grounded of the word of God which if any mynister shall abuse to hys gayne or ambytion then he ought to abyde not only the controlement of the other mynisters yea of the brethren but also further the punishment of the Magistrates according to the quantitie of the faulte And seeing you charge the brethren so sore you must be put in remembrance that thys vnreasonable authoritie ouer the rest of the mynisters and clergy came to the byshops and archbyshops when as the Pope dyd exempt hys shauelinges from the obedience subiection and iurisdiction of the Princes now therfore that we be ready to geue that subiection vnto the Prince and offer our selues to the Princes correction in things wherein we shall doe a misse doe you thincke it an vnreasonable thing that we desire to bee disburdened of the byshops and archbyshops yoke which the Pope hath layde vpon our neckes And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the 214. page thys matter is agayne handled where first M. Doctor would draw the place of Galathians the second to proue an archbyshop and that by a false translation for hoi dokountes which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they the are the cheefe although the place of the Galathians may be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full agaynst the archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more against him then for him For S. Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferioure to any of the Apostles bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his gospel from them but from Christ immediatly therfore if the apostles that were estemed most of and supposed by the Galathians others to be the cheefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth hym it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the rest And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the rest there seemeth to be no neede that one byshoppe should rule ouer the rest But that I run not backe to that I haue handled before I will not heere so much vrge the place as I will not doe also that of the Hebrues which followeth and yet the argument is stronger then that M. Doctor coulde answere For if the wryter to the Hebrues doe proue our sauiour Christes vocation to be iust and lawfull because hys calling was contayned in the scriptures as appeareth in the 5. and 6. verse then it followeth that the calling of the archbishop which is not comprehended there is neither iust nor lawfull For that no man sayth the apostle taketh that honour vnto hym selfe but he that is called of god c. But I say hauing before sufficiently spoken of the reasons which ouerthrow the archbyshoppe I will let passe these and other places answearing only that which M. Doctor bringeth for the establishment of them He sayth therefore afterwarde that although one man be not able to be byshop ouer all the church yet he may be byshop ouer a whole diocese or of a prouince Now if I wold say the one is as impossible as the other for proofe thereof alleage that which the Philosophers say that as there are no degrees in that which is infinite so that of thinges which are infinite one thing can not be more infinite then an other so there are no degrees in impossibilitie that of thinges which are impossible one thyng shoulde bee more impossible then an other If I shoulde thus reason I thincke I shoulde putte you to some payne
let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other mē say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there mētioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken
remeÌ„bred first that the minister liueth not any more of offerings Secondarily that the paiment of the ministers wages is not so conuenient either in the church or before all the people And thirdly y therby we fal into y fault whych we condemne in popery that is y besides the ordinary liuing apoynted for the seruice of the priests in the whoâ—e they toke for their seueral seruices of masse baptisme burying churching c. seueral rewards which thing being of the seruice boke wel abolished in certain other things I caÌ„not see what good cause there shuld be to retain it in this and certain other Now wheras m. D. saith that the place of the. 15. of the Acts alledged by the admonition maketh nothing against this he shuld haue considered that if it be a Iewish ceremony as they suppose it it is to be abolished vtterly For it being shewed there the all the ceremonial law of Moses is don away through our sauior Christ this also a part thereof must nedes be therin comprised And whereas he saith that it being nothing els but a thanks geuing for her deliuerance can not be therfore but christian very godly I answer the if there shuld be solemne and expres geuing of thanks in the church for euery benefit eyther equal or greater theÌ„ thys whych any singular person in the church dothe receiue we should not only haue no preaching of the word nor ministring of the sacrameÌ„ts but we shuld not haue so much leysure as to do any corporal or bodily worke but shuld be like vnto those heretikes which wer called of the Syriake word Messalians or continual prayers whych did nothing els but pray For the Psalme 121. spoken of in the 155. page it being shewed that it is not meete to haue any such solemne thankes geuing it is needeles to debate of the Psalme wherewyth the thankes geuing shuld be made And wheras in 101. and. 102. pages vnto the admonition obiecting that the comming in the vaile to the church more then theÌ„ at other times is a token of shame or some folly committed M. D. iestingly leaueth the matter to the womeÌ„s answer A little true knowledge of diuinity would haue taught him that the bringing in or vsurping wythout authority any ceremony in the congregation is bothe an earnester matter then may be iested at and a waightier then shoulde be permitted vnto the discretion of euery woman considering that the same hath bene so horribly abused in time of poperye The holy dayes folow of whych M. Doctor sayth that so they be not vsed superstitiously or vnprofitably they may be commauÌ„ded I haue shewed before that they were If they were so indifferent as they are made yet being kept of the papistes whych are the enemies of God they ought to be abolished And if it were as easy a matter to pull oute the superstition of the obseruing of those holydayes out of mennes heartes as it is to protest and to teache that they are not commaunded for any religion to be put in them or for any to make conscience of the obseruing of them as thoughe there weresome necessary worshyp of God in the keping of them then were they much more tollerable But when as the continuance of them doth norishe wicked superstition in the mindes of men and that the doctrine whych shuld remedy the superstition through the fewnes skarcitye of able ministers can not come to the most part of them whych are infected wyth this disease and that also where it is preached the frute therof is in part hindred whylest the common people attend oftentymes rather to that whych is done theÌ„ to that whych is taught being a thyng indifferent as it is sayd it ought to be abolyshed as that whych is not only not fittest to holde the people in the sincere worshypping of God but also as that whych keepeth them in their former blindnes and corrupt opinions whych they haue conceyued of such holy dayes And if they had bene neuer abused neyther by the Papistes nor by the Iewes as they haue bene and are daily yet suche making of holy dayes is neuer wythout some great daunger of brynging in some euill and corrupt opinions into the mindes of men I will vse an example in one and that the chefe of holy dayes most generally of longest time obserued in the church whych is the feast of Easter whych was kept of some more dayes of some fewer How many thousands are there I will not say of the ignorant papistes but of those also whych professe the gospell whych when they haue celebrated those dayes with dilygent heede taken vnto their life and wyth some earnest deuotion in praying and hearing the word of God do not by and by thinke that they haue well celebrated the feast of Easter and yet haue they thus notably deceiued them selues For S. Paul teacheth that the celebrating of the feast of the christians Easter is not as the Iewes Easter was for certen dayes but sheweth that we must keepe thys feast all the dayes of oure life in the vnleauened bread of sincerity and of truth By whych we see that the obseruing of the feast of Easter for certain dayes in the yeare doth pul out of our mindes or euer we be aware the doctrine of the gospell and causeth vs to rest in that neare consideration of our dueties for the space of a few dayes which should be extended to alour life But besides the incommodities that rise of making such holy dayes and coÌ„tinuing of those whych are so horribly abused where it is confessed that they are not necessary besides this I say the matter is not so indifferent as it is made I confes that it is in the power of the churche to appoynt so many dayes in the weeke or in the yeare in the whych the congregation shal assemble to heare the word of God and receiue the sacraments and offer vp prayers vnto God as it shall thinke good according to those rules whych are before alleaged But y it hath power to make so many holy dayes as we haue wherin no man may worke any parte of the day and wherin men are commaunded to cease from their daily vocations of plowing and exercising their handy crafts c. that I deny to be in the power of the church For proufe wherof I will take the fourth commaundement and no other interpretation of it then M. doctor alloweth of in the. 174. page whych is that God licenseth and leaueth it at the liberty of euery man to worke sixe dayes in the weeke so that he rest the seuenth daye Seeing that therefore that the Lord hath left it to all men at libertye that they myght labor if they thinke good sixe dayes I say the church nor no man can take thys liberty away from them and driue them to a necessary rest of the body And if it be lawfull to abridge the liberty of the church in
thys poynt and in stead that the Lord sayth sixe dayes thou mayst labor if thou wilt to say thou shalt not labor sixe dayes I do not see why the church may not as well wheras the Lord sayth thou shalt rest the seuenth day commaunde that thou shalt not rest the seuenth day For if the church may restraine the liberty that God hath geuen thē it may take away the yoke also that God hath put vpon them And whereas you say in the. 173. page that notwithstanding thys fourthe commaundement the Iewes had certaine other feastes whych they obserued in deede the Lord whych gaue thys generall law might make as many exceptions as he thought good and so long as he thought good But it foloweth not because the Lord did it that therfore the church may do it vnles it hath commaundemēt and authority from God so to do As when there is any generall plague or iudgement of God either vpon the churche or comming towardes it the Lorde commaundeth in suche a case that they should sanctifie a generall fast and proclaime ghnatsarah whych signifieth a prohibition or forbidding of ordinary works and is the same Hebrewe word wherwyth those feastes dayes are noted in the lawe wherin they shuld rest The reason of whych commaūdement of the Lord was that as they abstained that day as much as might be conueniently from meat so they might abstaine from their daily workes to the ende they might bestowe the whole day in hearing the word of God and humbling themselues in the congregation confessing their faultes and desiring the Lorde to turne away from hys fearce wrathe In thys case the churche hauing commaundement to make a holy day may and ought to do it as the church which was in Babilon did during the time of their captiuity but where it is destitute of a commaundement it may not presume by any decree to restraine that liberty whych the Lord hath geuen Nowe that I haue spoken generally of holy dayes I come vnto the apostles and other saints dayes whych are kept wyth vs And thoughe it were lawfull for the church to ordaine holy dayes to our sauioure Christe or to the blessed Trinity yet it is not therfore lawfull to institute holy dayes to the apostles and other saintes or to their remembrance For although I confes as muche as you say in the. 153. page that the church of England doth not meane by thys keping of holy dayes that the saintes shoulde be honoured or as you alledge in the. 175. and. 176. pages that wyth vs the saints are not prayed vnto or that it doth propoūd them as meritorious yet that is not enough For as we reason against the popish purgatorie that it is therfore naught for as much as neyther in the olde Testament nor in the newe there is any mention of prayer at any time for the dead so may it be reasoned against these holy dayes ordained for the remēbrance of the saintes that for so much as the old people dyd neuer keepe any feast or holy day for the remembrance eyther of Moses or Daniel or Iob or Abraham or Dauid or any other how holy or excellent so euer they were nor the apostles nor the churches in their time neuer instituted any eyther to kepe the remembrance of Stephen or of the virgin Mary or of Iohn Baptist or of any other notable and rare personage that the instituting and erecting of them nowe and thys attempt by the churches whych folowed whych haue not such certen and vndoubted interpreaters of the will of God as the prophets and apostles were whych lyued in those churches is not wythout some note of presumption for that it vndertaketh those thyngs whych the primitiue churche in the apostles times hauing greater giftes of the spirite of God then they that folowed them had durste not venter vpon Moreouer I haue shewed before what force the name of euery thyng hath to cause men to thynke so of euery thyng as it is named and therfore although you say in the. 175. page that in calling these holy dayes the dayes of suche or such a Sainte there is nothyng else meante but that the Scriptures whych are that day red concerne that saynte and contayne eyther hys callyng preachyng persecution martyrdom c. yet euery one doth not vnderstand so much For besides that the corrupt custome of popery hath caryed theyr mindes to an other interpretation the very name and appellation of the day teacheth otherwise For seing that the dayes dedicated to the Trinity and those that are consecrate to our sauior Christ are in that they be called Trinity day or the Natiuity day of our sauior Christ by and by taken to be instituted to the honor of our sauyor Christe and of the Trinity so lykewyse the people when it is called S. Paules day or the blessed virgin Maryes day can vnderstand nothing therby but that they are instituted to the honor of S. Paule or of the virgin Mary vnles they be otherwyse taught And if you say let them so be taught I haue answeared that the teaching in thys lande can not by any order whych is yet taken come to the moste parte of those whych haue drunke thys poyson and where it is taught it were good that the names were abolyshed that they should not helpe to vnteach that whych the preaching teacheth in thys behalfe Furthermore seeing the holy dayes be ceremonies of the church I see not why we may not heere renue Augustines complaint that the estate of the Iewes was more tollerable then oures is I speake in thys poynt of holy dayes for if their holy dayes and oures be accompted we shall be foūd to haue more then double as many holy dayes as they had And as for all the commodityes whych we receiue by them whereby M. doctor goeth about to proue the goodnes and lawfulnes of their institution as that the scriptures are there red and expounded the patience of those saintes in their persecution and Martyrdome is to the edifying of the church remembred and yearely renewed I say that we myght haue all those commodities wythout all those dangers whych I haue spoken of wythout any keping of yearely memory of those sayntes and as it falleth out in better and more profitable sorte For as I sayd before of the keping of Easter that it tyeth and as it were fettereth a meditation of the Easter to a fewe dayes whych should reache to all our age and time of oure lyfe so those celebrations of the memories of saintes and martyrs streighten our consideration of them vnto those dayes whych should continually be thought of daily as long as we liue And if that it be thoughte so good and profitable a thyng that thys remembrance of them should be vpon those dayes wherin they are supposed to haue dyed yet it foloweth not therefore that after thys remembrance is celebrated by hearing the scriptures concerning them and prayers made to folowe their
be seruauntes vnto the church and as they rule in the churche so they must remember to subiect them selues vnto the churche to submit their scepters to throw downe their crownes before the church yea as the Prophet speaketh to licke the dust of the feete of the churche Wherein I meane not that the churche doth eyther wring the scepters out of Princes hands or taketh their crownes from their heads or that it requireth Princes to licke the dust of her feete as the Pope vnder thys pretence hath done but I meane as the Prophet meaneth that whatsoeuer magnificence or excellencye or pompe is eyther in them or in their estates and common wealthes whych doth not agree wyth the simplicity and in the iudgement of the world poore and contemptible estate of the church that that they will be content to lay downe And heere commeth to my minde that wherwyth the world is now deceyued and wherwyth M. doctor goeth about bothe to deceiue him selfe and others to in that he thinketh that the church must be framed according to the common wealth and the church gouernment accordyng to the ciuill gouernment whych is as much to say as if a man shuld fashion hys house according to hys hāgings when as in deede it is cleane contrary that as the hangings are made fit for the house so the common wealth must be made to agree wyth the church and the gouernment therof wyth her gouernmēt For as the house is before the hangings therefore the hangings whych come after must be framed to the house whych was before so the church being before there was any common wealthe and the common wealthe comming after muste be fashioned and made sutable vnto the church Otherwyse God is made to geue place to men heauen to earth and religion is made as it were a rule of Lesbia to be applyed vnto any estate of common wealth whatsoeuer Seing that good men that is to say the church are as it were the foundation of the worlde it is meete that the common wealthe whych is builded vppon that foundation should be framed according to the churche therfore those voyces ought not to be heard thys order will not agree wyth oure common wealth that lawe of God is not for our state thys forme of gouernment will not matche wyth the pollicy of thys realme Nowe to come againe to M. Doctors reasons he sayeth in the. 133. page that if they vrge gouernoures because they are spoken of in the. 12. to the Corin. then they may as well vrge the power to worke miracles the gift of healing c. for that they are likewyse reckened vp in the same place But dothe not M. doctor know that although some thyngs be extraordinarye and for a time yet other some thyngs are ordinary and to endure alwayes Will he say for that the gifts of miracles and of healing are extraordinarye therefore the teachers whych are there reckened together wyth the gift of working miracles and of healing are extraordinary hath he forgotten that he in deede vntruely made before the office of Apostles and Prophets and Euangelists a perpetual office and yet they are there ioyned wyth these gifts whych were but for a time and therfore it is a very absurde argument to saye that for that some thyng reckened with gouernors is for a time and extraordinary therfore the gouernors be so As for Musculus authoritye whych is that the tymes do chaunge the orders besides that I haue answeared before and besides that he dothe not speake it of the Elders I haue proued that it can haue no place heere for so much as the Elders are necessarye and commaunded in the scripture Vnto the authors of the Admonition saying that it is easier to ouerthrowe by bryving one man then the fayth and piety of a godly company he answeareth that so it should come to passe that the moe that ruled the better estate it shoulde be and so the populare estate should be the best But where do the authors of the admonition say that the more that rule the better it is is it all one to saye that the gouernment of a fewe of the best is better then the gouernment of one and to saye the more that rule the better If it were to the purpose it myghte be shewed both by Diuinitye and by Philosophye whych M. Doctor speaketh of that that estate whych he meaneth is not the best and I haue in a word before spoken of it where I declared that the mixed estate is best bothe by the example of the kingdome of Christ and also of thys our realme It is sufficient nowe to admonyshe you that although it be graunted that the gouernment of one be the best in the common wealth yet it can not be in the church For the Prince may wel be Monarche immediately betwene God the common wealth but no man can be Monarche betwene God hys church but Christ whych is the only head therof Therfore the Monarchie ouer the whole church and ouer euery particulare church and ouer euery singular membre in the church is in Chryst alone Last of all to proue that there ought to be no senyors in the church vnder a Christian prince he citeth Ambroses authority both in the. 114. and. 132. pages whych sayeth that the sinagogue or church of the Iewes after that the church of the chrystians had senyors wythout whose counsell nothyng was done in the church whervpon he concludeth that for as much as they were not in Ambrose tyme therfore they were not vnder a christian prince And heere M. doctor hath in one sentence proclaimed bothe hys great ignorance in the whole storye of the churche and wythall eyther a maruellous abusion and suffering hym selfe to be misled by some vnaduysed prompter or subtile foxe that thought to deceyne him or else a notable euill conscience whych wrastleth agaynst the truthe Hys ignorance doth appeare partly in that he sayeth that because there were no senyors in Amb. church and in those churches about hym therefore there was none at all but moste manifestly in that he sayeth for so much as there were no senyors in Amb. time therefore there was none vnder a christian Prince as though there were not many yeres before Amb. tyme christian Emperors when as betwene the tyme of S. Ambrose being byshop and the tyme of Phillip successor of Gordias the first christian Emperor there is more then a. 150. yeares and betweene the time of Constantine the Emperor and the tyme of Ambrose being byshop there be aboue 80. yeares And if M. Doctor had euer red the ecclesiasticall storyes he mought haue founde easely the eldershyp moste flourishyng in Constantines tyme and other tymes when as the peace of the chrystians was greatest And that the presbyterie or eldershyp endured in the church after Ambrose tyme and in the tyme of peace and as it is very lyke in Amb. tyme although not where he was it may be shewed
plainly by Ierome whych folowed Ambrose immediatlye who in hys third chapter vpon Esay sayeth that they had also the presbyterie or eldershyp in the church The same myght be shewed by diuers other testimonies whych I omit because that it may appeare by the former treatise touchyng the election of the mynister that thys order of eldershyp continued in the church diuers hundreth yeares after Ambrose tyme euen as long almoste as there was any sound part of the church from the head to the heele Nowe I haue shewed the ignorance it remayneth to shewe howe that eyther M. Doctor was maruellously hym selfe abused or else desyreth to abuse other For if wheras he toke halfe Ambrose sentence he had taken the other halfe wyth hym and had not sodenly stopped hys breath that he should speake no more in steade of a false wytnes agaynst the eldershyp he should haue brought forthe as cleare and as flat a witnes for the proofe of them as a man coulde desire out of an auncient wryter The whole sentence is thys speakyng of thys offyce of the elders although not vpon so good occasyon thus he sayeth Whervpon the sinagoge and after the church had elders wythout whose counsell nothyng was done in the church whych Elders I know not by what neglygence they are worne out onles it be through the slouthfulnes of the doctors or rather throughe theyr pryde whylest they only would seeme to be somewhat Now that I haue shewed the place I wyll say no more I wyl leaue it to M. Doctor to thinke of it in his chamber by hym selfe and so will conclude this question that for so much as thys order is such as wythout whych the principall offices of charity can not be exercysed and that it is that which is commauÌ„ded by the scryptures approued and receyued by all the churches in the Apostles tymes and many hundreth yeares after in the most flouryshing churches bothe in tyme of peace in tyme of persecution and that there are greater causes why it should be in the tyme of peace then in tyme of persecution why rather vnder a christian prince then vnder a tyrant why rather now then in the apostles times that in consyderation of these things the eldershyp is necessary and such an order as the church ought not to be wythout And so also is answeared the third question that for so much as they were church offycers and ouer the people in matters pertayning to God such as watched ouer the soules of men that therfore although they were not pastors to preach the word yet were they no lay men as they terme them but ecclesiasticall persons The rest comprehended in these sections is answeared before being matter whych pertayned vnto the archbyshop Nowe I returne backe agayne to Excommunicacion whych M. Doctor thynketh to be the only disciplyne in the church but he shuld vnderstand that besyde that parte of priuate disciplyne whych is ordinarily and dayly to be exercised by euery one of the pastors elders as Admonition and reprehension there are .iij. princypal parts whych are exercised of them ioyntly and together wherof the first is the election or choyse and the abdication or putting out of Ecclesiasticall officers The second is in excommunication of the stubburne or absolution of the repeÌ„tant The third is the decision of all such matters as doe ryse in the church eyther touchyng corrupt manners or peruerse doctryne As touchyng the election and consequently the throwing out it hath bene shewed before that together wyth the churche the eldershyp hathe the principall sway For the decision of controuersyes wheÌ„ they ryse it may appeare in the. 15. of the Acts that the Presbyterie or Eldershyp of the churche hath to determine of that also Nowe it remayneth heere that whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the Excommunication and consequently the absolution or restoryng to the church agayne doth pertayne only to the minister that I shewe that the Presbyterye or eldership and the whole church also hath interest in the Excommunication and consequently in the absolution or restoryng vnto the churche But heere by the way it is to be noted that in saying that it belongeth to the minister he confesseth the dysorder in our church wherin this power is taken away from the minister and geuen to the byshop and hys offycers Nowe that thys charge of excommunication belongeth not vnto one or to the minyster but cheefely to the eldershyp and pastor it appeareth by that whych the authors of the admonition alledge out of S. Mathewe whych place I haue proued before to be necessarily vnderstaÌ„ded of the elders of the church It is most absurdly sayd of M. doctor in the. 135. page that by the church is vnderstanded eyther my Lordes grace or the byshop of the diocese or the Chancellor or Commissarye And that when a man complayneth vnto one of these he may be well sayd to complayne vnto the church whych is the more vntollerable for that being so straunge a saying and suche as may astonyshe all that heare it he neyther confirmeth it by any reason or lyke phrase of scrypture or by the authority of any godly or approued wryter olde or newe whych notwythstanding he seeketh for so diligently and turneth the commentaries in hys study so painefully when he can haue but one against twentye and but a sillable where he can not haue a sentence It may be the clearlyer vnderstanded that the presbyterie or eldership had the cheefe stroke in this excoÌ„munication if it be obserued that thys was the pollicy and discipline of the Iewes and of the smagogue from whence our sauyoure Christ toke this and translated it vnto this church that when any man had don any thing that they held for a fault that then the same was punished and censured by the Elders of the church according to the quality of the faulte as it maye appeare in S. Mathewe For althoughe it be of some and those very learned expounded of the ciuill iudgement yet for so muche as the Iewes had nothyng to do wyth ciuill iudgements the same being altogyther in the hands of the Romaines and that the word sanâ—drim corrupted of the Greeke worde synedrion whych S. Mathewe vseth is knowen by those that haue skill in the Rabbins and especially the Iewes Talmud to signifye the ecclesiasticall gouernors there can be no doubt but he meaneth the ecclesiasticall censures And if the fault were iudged very great then the sentence of Excommunication was awarded by the same elders as appeareth in S. Iohn And thys was the cause why our sauioure Christe spake so shortly of thys matter in the. 18. of S. Mathew wythout noting the circumstances more at large for that he spake of a thyng whych was well knowne and vsed amongst the Iewes whome he spake vnto And that this was the meaning of our sauioure Christe in those wordes it may appeare by the practise whych is set forthe in the Epistles
Phillippyans and of the Actes for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet for so muche as the same vse of them was in all churches which was in Ierusalem at Philippos and for that the Apostles as hath bene before touched laboring after the vniformitie of the church ordeyned the same officers in all churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were deacōs in one church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the church of Ephesus but simply and generally how the church must be gouerned reckneth there the order of deacons Whereunto may be added the contynuall practise of the church long after the Apostles times which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these words the byshop elders and deacons of such a church and vnto the byshop elders and deacons of such a church And by that it is so often times sayd in the councelles where the churches assembled y there were so many byshops so many elders so many deacons The thirde poynt in thys deaconship is whether it be a necessary office in the church or for a tyme only which controuersy shoulde not haue bene if M. Doctors english tong had bene agreable with hys latin For in a certayne latin pamphlet of hys whereof I spake before he maketh the deaconship a necessary office and such as ought not to be taken out of the church here he singeth a nother song There because he thought the necessitie of the deacon made for hym he wold nedes haue deacons here because it maketh agaynst hym he sayth there is no neede of them wherby appeareth how small cause there is that M. Doctor should vpbrayde the authors of the admonition with mutability and discord with them selues But that thys office is durable and perpetuall it may appeare by that which I haue alledged before out of the sixt of Timothe for the necessitie of elders for the argumentes serue to proue the necessitie of those orders which are there set forth whereof the deacon is one And where as M. Doctor sayth that euery church is not hable to fynde a curate as he termeth hym and a deacon I haue before shewed intreating of the senyors that the churches in the Apostles tymes might best haue sayd thys being poore and persecuted althoughe I see not why the church may not haue a deacon or deacons if moe be needefull with as small charges as they may haue a collector or collectors There remayneth to speake of the widdowes which were godly poore women in the church aboue the age of 60. yeares for the auoyding of all suspition of euill which might rise by slaunderous tonges if they had bene yonger These as they were norished at the charges of the church being poore so dyd they serue the church in attending vpon poore strangers and the poore which were sicke in the church whereof they were widdowes Now although there is not so great vse of these widdowes with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded and in that tyme wherein thys order of widdowes was instituted part of the which necessity grew both by the multitude of straungers through the persecution by the great heate of those east countries whereupon the washing supplyng of their feete was required yet for so much as there are poore which are sicke in euery church I doe not see how a better and more conuenient order can be deuised for the attendance of them in their sicknes other infirmities then thys which S. Paule appoynteth that there shuld be if there can be any gotten godly poore widdowes of the age which S. Paule appoynteth which should attend vpon such For if there be any such poore widdowes of that age destitute of all friendes it is manifest that they must needes liue of the charge of the church seing they must nedes do so it is better they shuld do some duety for it vnto the church agayne thē the church should be at a new charge to finde others to attend vpon those which are sicke destitute of keepers seing that there can be none so fit for that purpose as those women which S. Paule doth there describe so that I conclude that if such may be gotten we ought also to kepe that order of widowes in the church still I know y there be lerned men which thinke otherwise but I stand vpon the authoritie of Gods worde and not vppon the opynions of men be they neuer so well learned And if the matter also shoulde be tryed by the iudgement of men I am able to shew the iudgement of as learned as thys age hath brought forth which thinketh that the institution of widdowes is perpetuall and ought to be where it may be had and where such widdowes are founde In deede they are more rare now then in the Apostles tymes For then by reason of the persecution those which had the gift of continency dyd abstayne from mariage after the death of their husbandes for that the sole lyfe was an easyer estate and lesse daungerous and chargeable when they were driuen to flye then the estate of those which were maryed Vnto all the rest vntill the ende of the first part of the admonition I haue answered alredy Yet there is a poynt or two which I must touch wherof the first is in the. 126. page where he would beare men in hand that the authors of the admonition and some other of theyr mynde would shut out the cyuill magistrate and the Prince from all authoritie in Ecclesiastical matters which surmise although I see it is not so much because eyther he knoweth or suspecteth any such thing as because he meaneth heereby to lay a bayte to entrappe with all thinking that where he maketh no conscience to geue he careth not what authority to Princes we will be loth to geue more then the word of God will permit wherby he hopeth to draw vs into displeasure with the Prince yet for because he shall vnderstande we norish no opynions secretly which we are ashamed to declare openly and for that we doubt not of the equitie of the prince in thys part which knoweth that although her authoritie be the greatest in the earth yet it is not infinite but is lymitted by the word of God and of whome we are perswaded that as her maiesty knoweth so shee will not vnwillingly heare the truth in thys behalfe these things I say being considered I answere in the name of the authors of the admonition and those some other which you speake of that the Prince and cyuill magistrate hath to see that the lawes of God touching hys worshippe and touching all matters and orders of the church be executed dewly obserued to se that euery Ecclesiasticall person do that office whereunto he is
appoynted and to punish those which fayle in their office accordingly As for the making of the orders cerimonyes of the church they doe where there is a constituted and ordered church pertayne vnto the mynisters of the church and to the ecclesiastycall gouernoures and that as they meddle not with the making of cyuill lawes and lawes for the common wealth so the cyuill magistrate hath not to ordayne cerimonies pertayning to the churche But if those to whome that doth appertayne make any orders not meete the magistrate may and ought to hynder them and dryue them to better for so much as the ciuill magistrate hath thys charge to see that nothing be done agaynst the glory of God in hys domynion Thys distinction if M. Doctor knoweth not nor hath not heard of let him looke in the. 2. booke of the Chronicles he shall see that there were a number appoynted for the matters of the Lord which were priestes and leuites and there were other also appoynted for the Kinges affaires and for matters of the common wealth amongst which were the Leuites which being more in number then coulde be applyed to the vse of the churche were set ouer cyuill causes being therefore most fit for that they were best learned in the lawes of God which were the politicke lawes of that countrey There he may learne if it please hym that the making of orders and geuing of iudgementes in cyuill and Ecclesiasticall in common wealth and church matters pertayned vnto dyuers persons which distinction the wryter to the Hebrewes doth note when he sayeth that the Priest was ordayned in things pertayning to God. Thys might Maister Doctor haue learned by that whiche the noble emperor * Constantine attributeth to the fathers of the Nicene councell and to the Ecclesiasticall persons there gathered which he doth also permit the Byshops Elders and Deacans of churches to doe eyther by correcting or adding or making new if neede be And by the contynuall practise of the church in the tyme of christian Emperors which alwayes permitted vnto the mynisters assembled in councelles as well the determynation of controuersies which rose as the making or the abolyshing of needefull or hurtfull cerimonies as the case required Also by the Emperoures epistle in the first action of the councell of Constantinople where by the epistle of the Emperor it appeareth that it was the manner of the Emperoures to confirme the ordinaunces which were made by the mynisters and to see them kept The practise of thys he myght haue also most playnly seene in Ambrose who wold by no meanes suffer that the causes of the churches should be debated in the Princes consistory or court but would haue them handled in the church by those that had the gouernment of the church and therefore excuseth hym selfe to the emperour Valentinian for that being conuented to answere of the church matters vnto the ciuill court he came not And by whome can the matters and orders of the church bee better ordayned then by the mynisters of the church And if that be a good reason of Maister Doctor in the fortie and seuenth page that the Byshoppes ought therefore to ordayne mynisters because they are best hable to iudge of the learning and habylitie of those which are the fyttest it is also as good reason that therefore the mynisters and gouernours of the church should appoynt and decree of such ceremonyes and orders as pertayne to the church for because it is to be supposed that they can best iudge of those matters bestowing theyr studyes that wayes and further best vnderstanding the estate of the church about the which they are wholy occupyed And this is not Maister Doctor to shake handes with the papistes For the papistes would exempt their priestes from the subiection and from the punyshment of the cyuill magistrate which we doe not And the papistes would that whatsoeuer the cleargy doth determyne that that forthwith should be holden for good and the Prince should be forthwith compelled to mayntayne and set forth that bee it good or euill without further inquiry but wee say that if there bee no lawfull mynistery to set good orders as in rumous decayes and ouerthrowes of relygion that then the Prince ought to doe it and if when there is a lawfull mynistery it shall agree of any vnlawfull or vnmeete order that the Prince ought to stay that order and not to suffer it but to driue them to that which is lawfull and meete And if thys be to shake handes with the papistes then Maister Doctor is to blame which hath taught vs once or twise before that the appoynting of ceremonies of the church belongeth vnto the church And yet I know that there is one or two of the later wryters that thinke otherwise but as I take no aduauntage of their authoritie which thinke as I doe so I ought not to be preiudiced by those that thinke otherwise But for so much as we haue M. Doctor yet of thys iudgement that the church ceremonies shoulde bee ordayned by the church I will trauaile no further in thys matter consydering that the practise of thys church commonly is to referre these matters vnto the ecclesiasticall persons only thys is the difference that where it is done now of one or a few wee desire that it may be done by others also who haue interest in that behalfe The other poynt is in the hundreth thirty and eyght page where hee most vntruely and slaunderously chargeth the authors of the Admonition and maketh wonderfull outcryes of them as though they should deny that there hadde beene any reformation at all sythens the tyme that the Queenes maiestye began to raigne manyfestly contrary not onely to theyr meaning but also to theyr very words which appeareth in that they moue to a thorough reformation to contende or to labour to perfection denying only that the reformation which hath bene made in her maiesties dayes is thorough and perfect We confesse willingly that next vnto the Lorde God euery one of vs is most deepely bounde vnto her maiesty whome he hath vsed as an excellent instrument to delyuer his church heere out of the spirituall Egipt of popery and the common wealth also and the whole lande out of the slauery and subiection of straungers whereunto it was so neare Thys I say we willingly confesse before men and do in our prayers dayly geue most humble thankes to God therefore And by thys humble sute and earnest desire whiche wee haue for further reformation we are so far from vnthankfulnes vnto her maiesty that we thereby desire the heape of her felicitie the establishment of her royal throne amongst vs which then shall be most sure and vnremoued when our sauiour Christ sytteth wholy and fully not only in hys chayre to teach but also in hys throne to rule not alone in the heartes of euery one by hys spirite but also generally and in the visible gouernment of hys church by
not worth the noting The Apostles dyd beare with the infirmitie of the Iewes addicted to the obseruation of the ceremoniall law yet they neuer alowed that infirmitie and they were so farre from approuing it by subscribing that they wrote agaynst it Those sayth M. D. which authorized thys booke were studious of peace and of building of Christes church therefore they that speake agaynst it which hee calleth defacing are disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church So I will reason Gedeon was studious of peace and of building of the churche therefore they whiche spake agaynst the Ephod which he made were disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church We speake agaynst images in churches and consubstantiation in the sacramentes and such lyke which Luther being studious of peace and of the building of the church dyd holde and yet we are not therfore disturbers of peace or destroyers of the church Although they were excellent personnages yet their knowledge was in part although they brought many things to our light yet they being sent out in the morning or euer the sunne of the gospell was rysen so hygh might ouersee many things which those that are not so sharpe of fight as they were may see for because that which they want in the sharpnes of sight they haue by the benefite and clearenesse of the sun and of the light They sealed not the booke of seruice with their bloud as M. Doctor sayeth for some that suffred for the truth declared openly theyr myslyking of certayne thinges in it and as for the other they coulde neuer dye for that booke more then for the lyturgie vsed in the Frenche churche or at Geneua For they receiued not the sentence of condemnation because they approued that booke but because they improued the articles drawne out of the masse booke And if they had dyed for that booke as in deede they dyed for the booke of God yet the authoritie of theyr martyrdome coulde not take away from vs thys lyberty that we haue to enquire of the cause of theyr death Iustin and Cyprian were godly martyrs yet a man may not say that they sealed their errors which they wrote with theyr bloud or with thys glory of their martyrdome preiudice those which speake or wryte agaynst their erroures for thys is to oppose the bloud of men to the bloud of the sonne of god For the papistes triumph I haue answeared before and I will not striue about the Goates wolle who is the opponent who the respondent in thys difference From the. 151. page vnto the. 171. page all is answeared where these things which are heere ioyned are seuerally handled now vnto that in the. 171. and. 172. pages I answere the although it be meete that as we hope that the homylies which are made already be godly so those that shall be made hereafter shall be lykewise yet considering the mutabilitie of men and that oftentymes to the worse it is not meete nay it is merely vnlawfull to subscribe to a blancke seeing that wee can not witnesse or allow of those things which we haue not sene nor heard The place vnto the Corinthes is the same vnto the Romanes and M. Doctor approuing one hath no cause to fynde fault with the other For the homylies first of all I haue shewed how absurde a saying and how vnlyke a dyuine it is to match reading of homylies with preaching of sermons For if the reading of the holy scriptures is nothing so fruitefull as the preaching of them muche lesse is the reading of homylies to be for their frute matched with preaching of sermons There remayneth that I shew briefely that neyther the homylies nor the Apochripha are at all to be red in the churche Wherein first it is good to consider the order which the Lorde kept with hys people in tymes past when he commaunded that no vessell nor no instrument eyther beesome or flesh hooke or pan c. shuld come into the temple but those only which were sanctifyed sette apart for that vse And in the booke of Numbers he will haue no other trumpets blowne to cal the people together but those only which were set apart for y purpose What should the meaning of thys law be The matter of other common vessels trumpets was the same oftentimes which theirs was the same forme also the other beesomes and hookes and trumpets hable to serue for the vses of sweeping and sounding c. as well as those of the temple and as those which were set aparte wherfore mought not these then as well be vsed in the temple as others Forsothe because the Lord would by these rudiments and pedagogie teache that he would haue nothing brought into the church but that which he had appoynted no not althoughe they seemed in the iudgement of men as good as those things which God him selfe had placed there Which thing is much more to be obserued in this matter seeing that the homilies red be they neuer so learned and pithye neyther the Apochrypha are to be compared either in goodnes within thēselues eyther in frute or in effect towardes the hearer wyth the authenticall scriptures of god Now if a man will say that the Homilies do explane lay open the scriptures I answer that the word of God also is plain and easy to be vnderstanded and such as giueth vnderstanding to idiotes to the simple And if there be hardnes in them yet the promise of the assistance of Gods spirite that God hath giuen to the reading of the scriptures in the church whych he hath not giuen to homilies or to the Apochrypha will be able to weigh wyth the hardnes and to ouercome it so that there shall easely appeare greater profit to come vnto the church by reading of the scriptures then by reading of homilies Besides thys the pollicy of the church of God in times past is to be folowed herein that for the expounding of darker places places of more easines ought to be ioyned together as in the persecutiō of Antiochus wher they could not haue the commodity of preaching the Iewes dyd appoynt at their meetings alwayes a peece of the law to be red with all a peece of the prophets whych expounded y peece of the lawe rather then to bring in interpretations of men to be red And because I am entred into that matter heere cometh to be considered the practise also of the church both before our sauior Christes comming and after that when the churches met together there is nothing mentioned but the reading of the scriptures for so is the Lyturgie described in the Actes And it is not to be thought but that they had those whych made expositiōs of the law and the prophets And besydes that they had Onkelos the Calday paraphrast bothe Galatine Rabby Moses surnamed Maymon write that Ionathan an nother of the Calday paraphrasts floryshed in oure sauyor Christes tyme whose
wrytings and paraphrases vpon the scryptures are estemed comparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall wryting wyth any whych hath laboured that wayes And if any mennes wrytings were to be red in the church those paraphrases whych in explanyng the scrypture go least from it and whych kepe not only the numbre of sentences but almost the very numbre of words were of all most fitte to be red in the churche Seeing therfore I say the church of God then abstained from such interpretations in the church and contented it selfe wyth the scryptures it can not be but a moste dangerous attempt to bryng any thyng into the church to be red besydes the word of god Thys practise continued still in the churches of God after the apostles times as may apeare by the second Apologie of Iustin Martyr which sheweth that theyr manner was to read in the church the monuments of the prophets and of the apostles and if they had red any thyng else it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe consydering that hys purpose there is to shewe the whole order whych was vsed in their churches then The same may appear in the first Homilye of Oregine vpon Exodus and vpon the Iudges And as for M. Bucers authoritye I haue shewed before how it ought to be wayghed heere also it is suspitious for that it is sayd that hys aduise was when the lord should blesse the realme wyth moe learned preachers that then order should be taken to make more homilyes whych should be red in the church vnto the people As if M. Bucer dyd not know that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme whych were able to make homilies so many as the volume of them myght easely haue exceeded the volume of the Byble if the multytude of homilyes would haue done so much good And if the authority of M. Bucer beare so great a sway wyth M. Doctor that vpon hys credite only wythout eyther scripture or reason or examples of the Churches primitiue or those whych are now he dare thrust into the church homilies then the authorities of the most ancient best councels ought to haue ben considered whych haue geuen charge that nothyng should be red in the church but only the canonicall scriptures For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea the nothing shuld be red in the church but the canonicall bokes of the olde and newe testament and reckeneth vp what they be Afterward as corruptions grew in the church it was permitted that homilies myght be red by the deacon when the minister was sicke and coulde not preach and it was also in an other councel of Carthage permitted that the martyrs liues might be red in the church But besides the euill successe that those decrees had vnder pretence wherof the popishe legende and Gregories homilies c. crept in that vse and custome was controlled by other councels as may appeare by the coūcell of Colen albeit otherwyse popishe And truely if there were nothing else but thys consideration that the bringing in of the reading of Martyrs liues into the church and of the homilies of auncient wryters hath not only by thys meanes iustled with the Bible but also thrust it cleane out of the church or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene it ought to teach all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God be they neuer so well learned as long as the world should endure And if any man obiect that by thys meanes also is shut out of the churche the forme of ordinary prayers to be sayd I say the case is nothing lyke for when we pray we can not vse the words of the scripture as they orderly lie in the text But for so muche as the churche prayeth for diuers thyngs necessarye for it the whych are not contained in one or two places of the scripture and that also there are some thyngs whych we haue neede of whereof there is no expresse prayer in the scripture it is needefull that there be a forme of Prayer drawne forthe out of the scrypture whych the church may vse when it meeteth as the occasyon of the time dothe require whych necessity can not be by no meanes alledged in the reading of Homilies or Apochrypha Wherevpon appeareth that it is not so wel ordained in the churche of Englande where bothe Homilies and Apochrypha are red especially when as diuers chapters of the bookes called Apocrypha are lyfted vp so high that they are sometime appoynted for extraordinary lessons vpon feastes dayes wherin the greatest assemblies be made and some of the chapters of the canonicall scripture as certen chapters of the Apocalipse quite left oute and not red at all Vnto the two next sections I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of holy dayes and of kneeling at the Communion it followeth to speake vnto the section contained in the. 183. and. 184. pages ALthough it will be hard for you to proue that thys worde priest commeth of the Greke word presbyteros yet that is not the matter but the case stādeth in thys that for so much as the common and vsuall speach of England is to note by the word priest not a minister of the gospel but a sacrificer which the minister of the gospell is not therefore we ought not to call the ministers of the gospell priests and that thys is the Englishe speache it appeareth by all the English translations whych translate alwayes hiereis whych were sacrificers priests and do not of the other syde for any that euer I red translate presbyteron a priest Seeing therfore a priest wyth vs and in our tonge dothe signifye both by the papistes iudgement in respect of their abhominable masse and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respect of the beasts whych were offered in the law a sacrificing office whych the minister of the gospell neyther dothe nor can execute it is manifest that it can not be wythout great offence so vsed The next three sections I haue before answeared wher I haue spoken of the abuses in baptisme crossing and interrogatories it foloweth to speake vnto the section contained in 194. 195. 196. pa. IF it be M. Bucers iudgement whych is alledged heere for the ring I see that sometimes Homere sleapeth For first of all I haue shewed that it is not lawfull to institute new signes and sacraments and then it is dangerous to doe it especially in this whych confirmeth the false and popyshe opinion of a sacrament as is alledged by the admonition And thirdly to make suche fonde allegories of the laying downe of the money of the roundnes of the ring and of the mystery of the fourth finger is let me speake it wyth hys good leaue very ridiculous and farre vnlike hym selfe And fourthly that he wil haue the minister to preach vpon these toyes surely it sauoreth not of the learning and sharpnes of the
to be dennes of loyterors and idle persones whylest there are nouryshed there some whych serue for no profitable vse in the church their offyces being suche as bryng no commoditye but rather hurte of whych numbre certen are whych the Admonition speaketh of in the. 224. page some other which hauing charges in other places vnder the coloure of their prebendes there absent them selues from them and that whych they spoyle and rauen in other places there they spend and make good cheare wyth and therfore not wythout good cause called dennes Finally there being nothyng there whych might not be much better applied and to the greater commodity of the churche whylest they myght be turned into colledges where yong men myght be brought vp in good learning made fitte for the seruice of the church and common wealthe the vniuersities being not able to receyue that numbre of scholers wherwyth their neede may be supplyed And where M. Doctor sayth that that whych is spoken of the Queenes maiestyes chappell is worthy rather to be punyshed then confuted if so be that these be abuses the example of them in her maiesties chappell can not be but most daungerous whych wyth all humble submission and reuerence I beseeche her maiesty duely to consider And as for the reasons which M. doctor bringeth to establishe them in the 225. page as that they are necessary whych he doth barely say and that s Aug. alloweth of a Deane and that the authors of the Admonition are instruments of those whych desire the spoile of them and that a man may as well speake against vniuersities colledges as against them I haue answeared before sauing that it is to be feared that colledges in vniuersities if M. doctor may worke y which he goeth about wil shortly be in little better case then those cathedral churches whych not only by hys own example but wyth might and maine and al endeuor possyble goeth about to fill and fraught them wyth Non residences and suche as haue charges of churches in other places whych do no good in the vniuersitye and partly are such as can do none only are pernicious examples of riotous feasting and making greate cheare wyth the prayes and spoyles whych they bryng out of the country to the great hurt of the vniuersity presently and vtter ruine of it hereafter onles spedy remedy be therfore prouided And wher he sayth it is not material although these deanes vicedeanes canons peticanōs prebēdaries c. come from the pope it is as if he shoulde saye that it skilleth not although they come out of the bottomles pit For whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill and where he addeth thys condition if it be good c. in deede if of the egges of a cockatrice can be made holesome meate to feede with or of a spiders webbe any cloth to couer with all then also may the things that come from the Pope and the Deuill be good profitable and necessary vnto the church And where he sayeth that collegiate churches are of great auncientie he proueth not the auncientie of the cathedrall churches onles he proue that cathedrall and collegiate be all one But I will not sticke wyth hym for so small a matter if our controuersy were of the names of these churches and not of the matter I could be content to graunt hys cause in this poynt as good as antiquitie without the word of God which is nothing but rottennes could make it But for so much as those auncient collegiate churches were no more lyke vnto these which we haue now then things most vnlyke our cathedrall churches haue not so much as thys olde worne cloke of antiquity to hide theyr nakednes and to keepe out the shoure For the collegiate churches in times past were a senate Ecclesiasticall standing of godly learned mynisters elders which gouerned and watched ouer that flocke which was in the citie or towne where suche churches were and for that in suche great cities and townes commonly there were the most learned pastors and auncientes therefore the townes and villages rounde about in hard and difficult causes came and had their resolutions of theyr doubtes at theyr handes euen as also the Lord commaunded in Deuteronomie that when there was any great matter in the countrey which the Leuites in matters pertayning to God and the Iudges in matters pertayning to the common wealth could not discusse that then they should come to Ierusalem where there was a great numbre of Priestes Leuites and learned Iudges of whome they should haue their questions dissolued and thys was the first vse of collegiate churches Afterward the honor which the smaller churches gaue vnto them in asking them counsell they tooke vnto them selues and that which they had by the curtesy and good will proceeding of a reuerent estimation of them they dyd not only take vnto them of right but also possessed them of all authority of hearing and determyning any matters at all And in the ende they came to thys which they are now which is a company that haue strange names and strange offyces vnhearde of of all the purer churches of whome the greatest good that wee can hope of is that they doe no harme For although there be dyuers which doe good yet in respect that they bee Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petycanons c. for my part I see no profite but hurte come to the church by them And where hee sayeth they are rewardes of learning in deede then they should be if they were conuerted vnto the mayntenance and bringing vp of scholers where now for the most part they serue for fat morsels to fill if it might be the gredy appetites of those which otherwyse haue enough to lyue with and for holes and dennes to keepe them in which eyther are vnworthy to be kept at the charge of the church or else whose presence is necessary and duetifull in other places and for the most part vnprofitable there Last of all whereas M. Doctor sayeth that we haue not to follow other churches but rather other churches to follow vs I haue answeared before thys only I adde y they were not counted only false Prophets which taught corrupt doctryne but those which made the people of God beleeue that they were happy when they were not and that their estate was very good when it was corrupt Of the which kynde of false prophecie Ieremy especially doth complayne And therefore onles M. Doctor amend hys speach leaue thys crying peace peace all is wel when there are so many things out of order and that not by the iudgement of the admonition fauorers therof only but euē of al which are not willingly blind I say if he do not amend these speches the crime of false prophesy will sit closer vnto him thē he shal be euer able to shake of in the terrible day of the lord The next section I haue answeared in the treatise
the glory of God whereof they saw the sacrament before theyr eyes Neyther is the hyghe priest commaunded to be present to thys ende that he should sitte as iudge of that matter but that he might dissolue the difficulties if any rose of the vnderstanding of the law and that hee myght pricke forward and styre vp by admonition the Princes to whome the iudgement appertayned if so bee he should see them colde slacke to reuenge the iniury done vnto the Lorde Which thing may the better appeare in that the handling of the matter is there appoynted not vnto the priestes but vnto the iudges or princes only and so lykewyse of matrimony and diuorse although the iudgement thereof appertayne vnto the ciuill magistrate yet the minister if there be any difficulty in knowing when it is a lawfull contract when the dyuorse is lawfull maye and ought to bee consulted wyth Thus may the common wealth and church enioy both the wysedome learning which is in the mynister things may bee done in that order which God hath appoynted without suche confounding and iombling of offyces and iurisdictions together For although Aristotles obeliscolychnion and Platoes dorydrepanon that is instrumentes seruing to two purposes bee lawfull in offyces of the common wealth where things are more free and left in greater liberty to bee ordered at the iudgement and aduise of men especially consydering that vppon the diuersitye of the formes of common wealthes varietie of regiment may spring yet in the church of God where things are brought to a strayghter rule and which is but one and vniforme the same may not bee suffered And yet euen those coÌ„mon wealth Philosophers which doe lycence vpon occasion that two offices may meete in one man holde that it is best and conuenientest that euery one shoulde haue a particulare charge For Aristotle sayeth that it is most agreeable to nature that hen shoulde be pros hen that is one instrument to one vse And Plato vseth the prouerbe mede heracleis pros duo against those which wil take vpon them diuers vocations and not content them selues with one so that they make the meting of many functions in one man to be a remedy only in extreme neede pouerty of able men And although both be vnlawfull yet as the case standeth in our realme it is more tellerable that the ciuill magistrate should doe the office of a minister then that the minister shuld intermeddle with the function of the magistrate For when the accountes shall be cast it will fall out that there are more sufficient able men to serue in the common wealth of thys realme then in the churche and greater wante in the one then in the other And if besyde thys both authoritie of the werd of God and lyght of reason wee will looke vnto the practise of the church many yeares after the time of the Apostles we shall finde that the church hath bene very carefull from time to time that thys order should bee kept that the ministers shuld not entangle them selues with any thing beside their ministery and those things which the word of God doth necessaryly put vpon them leâ—st the strength of their minde of their body being distracted vnto many thinges they should be the lesse able to accomplishe their ministery vnto the full Which may also partly appeare by that which I haue alledged out of Cyprian which will not permit them so much as to bee executors of a Testament And in one of the Canons whiche are ascribed vnto the Apostles it is enioyned that they should not entangle them selues with worldly offices but attend vpon their Ecclesiasticall affaires Further in the councell of Calcedon it was decreed that none of the clearkes or cleargie as it termeth them shoulde receiue any charge of those which are vnder age vnlesse they were suche as the lawes dyd necessarily cast vpon hym which it calleth inexcusable charges meaning by all lykelyhoode the wardshyp of hys brothers children or some suche thing Where is also declared the cause of that decree to haue beene for that there were certeine mynisters which were stewardes to noble men And in the. 7. canon of the same councell it is decreed that none of the cleargy should either goe to warfare as souldyers or captaynes or should receiue any secular honors and if they dyd they shoulde bee excommunicated or accursed Now I come to M. Doctors argumentes which he bringeth to establish thys disorder And first he sayeth mynisters of the word may not occupy them selues in wordly busines as to be marchants husbandmen craftes men and such like but they may exercise cyuill offices Where first of all I perceiue M. Doctor is of thys mynde that the order of God is not to be broken for small gayne or when a man must take great toyle of the body to breake it but it may be broken with getting of honor and doing of those things which may be done with out soyle with great commendation there it is lawfull to breake it In deede so the Poete but in the person of an vniust and ambition man sayd ei chre adicein tyrannidos heneca chre that is If a man must do vniustly he must doe it to beare rule Secondarely I doe see that M. Doctor will not be shackled and hyndered from hys ministery by a paire of yron fetters but if he can get a payre of golden fetters he is conteÌ„ted to be hampered and entangled from doing the office of ministery committed vnto hym For onles these should be the causes which should moue hym to take the one and refuse the other verely I see none For where as he sayth it is a helpe maynteineth relygion in deede that is the reason of the papistes which M. Caluin confuteth in hys institution And although it be good and necessary to punish vice and iniquity by corporall punishmentes and by cyuill corrections yet it doth no more follow that that should be done by the mynisters then it followeth that for that preaching and mynistring the sacramentes and excommunication are good and necessary therefore the same is fitte to be executed by the cyuill magistrate I graunt the mynisters haue also to punyshe vice for as the cyuill magistrates punishe lyghter faultes with some penalty of money or losse of membre so the churche and the mynister especially with the church hath to punishe faultes by represions and rebukes And as the cyuill magistrate punisheth greater faultes by death so the mynister with other whiche haue intereste hath with the sworde of excommunication power to kill those which be rebellious to cut them from the church as the other doth from the common wealth And if it be a helpe to the mynisters office that he shoulde meddle with ciuill punishmeÌ„ts why shuld it not be a helpe vnto the magistrates office that he should excommunicate and other things pertayning to the ecclesiasticall disciplyne And where as M. Doctor sayth they may
can not be seuered is vsed for that that they ought not to be seuered when we say folowing S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth doe we not meane that we ought to do nothyng nor can do nothyng lawfully agaynst it And do not al men knowe when we say that a man can not be separated from hys wyfe but for the cause of adultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therfore thys is as all men may see a mere cauill and triumph ouer hys owne shadow There is no brag of suffering made by the authors of the admonition The modesty wherwith he hath defended this cause cā not be hiddē That he wold haue other men punished for wel doing when he is not content that the open wrongs whych he doth shuld be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Finally as you exhorte vs to submit our selues to good order whych haue ben alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne wyth you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and wil not suffer vs to preache so we exhorte you in Gods behalfe as you will once answere it before the iust iudge that you wil not willingly shut your eyes against the truthe that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not agaynst it Where we pray you to take heede that neyther the desire of keping your wealth and honor whych you are in nor the hope whych you maye haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by maintaining that whych you haue once set downe nor the sleighty suggestion of crafty wily papists do driue you to stomble against thys truthe of God which toucheth the gouernement of hys churche and the purging of those corruptions whych are amongste vs knowing that you can not stumble vpon the woorde of God * but forthwith you run your selfe agaynst Christ whych is the rocke And you knowe that he will not geue backe but breaketh all to fytters whatsoeuer he be that rusheth agaynst him And if the matter heerein alledged do not satisfy you then I desire euen before the same God that you confute it not by passyng ouer thyngs whych you can not answeare or by leauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansye to confute or by wrangling wyth the fault of the Printe or by carping at the translation when the wordes being changed the sence remaineth or by alledging that such a one or such an other was of thys or that iudgement as you for the most parte hauing nothyng but hys bare name haue done All whych things you haue committed in thys boke but that you confute it by the authoritye of the worde of God by good and sound reasons wholy and not by pecemeale And if you bring the practise of the churches we desire that it may be out of authorities whych are extāt which are not counterfait and whych were in the best and purest times And if you thinke that the credite of your doctorship or deanrye will beare out that which you can not answer your self besides that ecdicon omma is neuer shut remember M. doctor that light is come into the world men wil not be deluded with nothing nor abused wyth visards Neither let it embolden you whych peraduēture hath made you to presume the more in this boke to wryte any thing vpon hope that no man dare answer it For neither the Quenes maiesty nor her honorable coūcel as we are persuaded wil deale so sharply wyth those whom they know to be faithfull lawfull subiects whych pray that all the treasures of Gods wisedom may be powred vpon them neither haue we cause to thinke but that as the euill opinion whych is in part conceyued of vs hathe growne vpon false vntrue informations which you and such other haue geuen in crying in their eares that we be anabaptists conspired with papists puretanes Donatists bringers in of cōfusion anarchie enemies to ciuil gouernment and I knowe not what euen so whē her maiesty their honors shal vnderstand how far we are from those wicked opinions they will leaue that opinion of vs and rather esteme of vs by that we haue preached taught and now wryte then that whych other men report of vs being things which we neuer taught spake or so muche dreamed of Vnto master Doctors censures vpon the additions detractions and alterations of bothe the partes of the admonition BEsydes that oftentimes M. Doctor dothe accounte the expositions and explanations corrections he leaueth vs somewhat the les hope that he wil correct hys errors for that he pursueth the authors of the admonition so harde correcting their very smal and few slips which they haue made calling thys singulare modestye and commendable humility amongste other reproches dalying and inconstancye when it is oure profession euery day to learne better thyngs For vnto what ende should we lyue if time if experience if reading if musing if conference should teache vs nothyng And therefore when thyngs are Printed againe it is good and prayse worthy to pollish those things whych are some ▪ what rude to mitigate those things whych are to sharpe to make plaine and to geue lighte to those things whych seeme darker and to correcte that whych is a misse I thinke M. Doctor shoulde not be ignorante that wise men haue their deuteras phrontidas their seconde counsels and those also wyser and better then their first as that sentence doth declare I will therfore say no more heereof but admonishe M. Doctor that he receiue more louingly those whych correcte them selues seing that the best defence to hys booke must be not a correction here and there but a cleane blotting and striking out not an amending but a new making almoste of hys whole booke Other matter in hys censures he hath almost none at all worthe the answearing sauing that he hathe a place or two whych touch the matters before entreated of For whereas he accuseth the authors of the admonition in the first leafe as though they should condemne Doctors and bachellers of diuinitie and so bryng in confusion of degrees he vpon the. 5. leafe confesseth that they allowe of a Doctor Althoughe he that taketh away degrees of Doctor or Bachelor of Diuinitie dothe not bryng in confusion nor taketh not away all degrees of schooles especially seeing they are nowe made bare names wythout any offices and oftentimes they are admitted to these degrees whych neyther can nor will teache Vnto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the admonition master D. saith that because the third to Titus maketh not against reading therfore it maketh not against reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothyng but reade And wheras he would picke out a contradiction in the words of the admonition because they say bare
a light foote the Heades and Summes of things then to number the faultes which are almost as many as there are sentences in thys booke more I am sure then there are pages ACcording to my promise made in my boke I haue here set down the iudgement of the later wryters concerning these matters in controuersy betwene vs Wherein because I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make myne to grow I haue kept thys moderation that I neither sette down all the wryters nor all their places that I could nor yet of euery singuler matter but the chefest wryters and other of the cheefest poyntes or else of those wherein they are alleadged agaynst vs by M. Doctor and one only place of eche as farre as I could iudge and choose out most direct to that wherefore I haue alleaged it For otherwyse if I would haue spoken of all the poyntes and of the iudgement of all the wryters and gathered all the places that I could they woulde haue bene sufficient matter of an other booke as bigge or rather bigger then thys I must also admonish the Reader that I haue for borne in certeine of these Titles to set downe the iudgements of M. Beza M. Bullinger and M. Gualter because they are comprehended in the Confessyon of the Churches And thus partly vpon those sentences which I haue alleaged in thys booke and partely vpon these Testimonies heere set downe I leaue to the consyderation of all men how truely and iustly it is sayde that the learned wryters of these tymes one or two onely excepted are agaynst vs. 1 That there ought now to be the same regiment of the Church which was in the Apostles tyme. THe confession of the Heluetian Tygurin Berne Geneua Polonia Hungary and Scotland with others in the. 18. chapter speaking of the equality of the ministers sayth that no man may iustly forbyd to returne to the old constitution of the church of God and to receiue it before the custome of man. M. Caluin in hys Institututions 4. booke 3. chapter and 8. section speaking of the auncientes which dyd assist the pastor in euery church sayth that experiēce teacheth that that order was not for one age that thys office of gouernment is necessary to all ages And in the. 12. chapter and first section of the same booke sayth as much of Excommunication and other Ecclesiasticall censures Peter Martyr vpon the third to the Rom. teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge her gouernment yet the church alwayes kepeth hers still Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ 15. chapter lamenteth that there were founde amongst those which are counted of the forwardest christians which woulde not haue the same disciplyne vsed now that was in the times of the Apostles obiecting the differences of tymes and of men 2. That one mynister ought not to haue any dominion ouer an other The foresayde Heluetian Confession c. in the seuententh Chapter sayeth that Christ dyd most seuerely prohibite vnto hys Apostles their successors primacy domynion in the 18. Chap. sayth that equall power function in geuen vnto all the mynisters of the church that from the beginning no one preferred him selfe to a nother sauing only the for order some one dyd call thē together propounde the matters that were to be consulted of gathered the voyces c. Musculus in hys Common places in the chap. of the offices of the mynisters of the word sayth that in the Apostolike church the ministers of the word were none aboue an other nor subiect to any heade or president mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher degree then an other And further he sayth vppon the second chap. of the second Epistle to the Thessalonians that the honor of a byshop being taken from the rest of the mynisters and geuen to one was the first step to the papacie how so euer in other places he speaketh otherwyse 3. That the election of mynisters pertayneth not to one man. The foresayd Heluetian Confession c. in the. 18. Chapter sayth that the mynisters ought to be chosen of the church or by those which are lawfully deputed of the church and afterward ordayned with publike prayers M. Caluin in hys 4. booke of Institutions 3. chap. 15. section sheweth that the Church dyd chuse and that the Apostles dyd monderate the election and confuteth them which vpon the places of Titus and Timothe would proue that the election belongeth to one man. 4. That there ought now to be elders to gouerne the church with the Pastors and Deacons to prouide for the poore Touching Elders the iudgement of M. Caluin hath bene before declared in the first of these propositions M. Beza in hys booke of diuorces page 161. sayeth that the Eldershyp of the church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate Touching Deacons M. Caluin 4. boke 3. chap. 9. section after that hee had described what deacons the churches had in the Apostles tymes sayeth that we after their example ought to haue the lyke M. Beza in the. 5. cap. and. 23. section of hys confessions sheweth that the office of the distribution of the goodes of the church is an ordinary function in a church lawfully constituted which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship P. Martyr vpon the. 12. to the Rom. speaking of the Elders which did asist the pastor in euery Church of the Deacons lamenteth that thys order is so fallen out of the church that the names of these functions do skarce remayne M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ for the auncientes of the Church sayeth that the number of the Elders of euery church ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people and in the. 14. chap. of the same booke sayeth that thys order of Deaconshyppe was relygiously kept in the church vntill it was driuen out by Antichrist 5. That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Church M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. booke and. 11. chap. and. 6. section teacheth that Excommunication pertayneth not to one man that it was too wicked a fact that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other to himselfe alone opened a way to tyranny tooke from the Church her right and abrogated the church Senate ordayned by the spirite of Christ And in the. 12. chap. and. 7. section hee sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Church M. Beza in hys confessions 5. chap. 43. section sayeth that thys power of excommunicating is geuen to no one man except it please God to worke extraordinarily Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. to the Corinthes and. 5. chap. sayeth that it is very daungerous to permit so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and will of any one man And therfore both that tyranny might be auoyded and thys censure executed with greater frute
and grauitie that the order which the Apostle there vseth is still to be obserued M. Bucer of the kingdome of Christ in the. 1. booke and. 9. chap. sayeth that S. Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole church dyd not cast out of their company the incestuous person 6. That Chauncelors Commissaries Officials c. vsurpe authority in the Church which belongeth not to them M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 7. sect speaketh agaynst the office of Officials and alledgeth diuers reasons agaynst them as that they exercise that part of the Byshops charge and that they handle matters whiche pertayne not to the spirituall iurisdiction M. Beza in hys boke of Diuorces prouing that the iudiciall deciding of matrimonyall causes appertayneth vnto the cyuill magistrate sayeth that officials proctors and promoters and in a word all the swinish filth now of long time hath wasted the church Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. chap. to the Romaines speaking agaynst the ciuill iurisdiction of byshops doth by the same reason condemne it in their deputies the officials 7. That the mynisters of the worde ought not to exercise any ciuill offices and iurisdiction M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 9. sect bringeth dyuers reasons to proue that byshops may neyther vsurpe nor take being geuen them eyther the right of the sword or the knowledge of ciuill causes M. Beza in hys Confessions chap. 5. sect 32. sayth that the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction is to be distinguished from the ciuill and that although the byshops in the times of Christian Emperoures were troubled with the hearing of cyuill causes yet they dyd not that by any iudiciall power which they exercised but by a frendly entreaty of the parties which were at discorde and sayeth notwithstanding that herein the Emperors dyd geue too much to the ambytion of certayne byshoppes whereupon by little and by litle afterwarde all thinges were confounded And in the. 42. section sayeth that those corporall punyshmentes which the Apostles exercised were peculier and extraordinary Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. to the Romaines speaking of thys meeting of both Ecclesiasticall and ciuill iurisdiction in one man sayeth that when both the ciuill Ecclesiasticall functions do so meete that one hindreth the other so that he which exerciseth the one can not mynister the other M. Bucer vpon the. 5. of Mathew sayeth that there is no man so wise holy which is able to exercise both the ciuill the Ecclesiasticall power and that therfore he which will exercise the one must leaue the other 8. That the sacraments ought not to be priuately administred nor by women The forsayd confession .c. 20. holdeth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by women or midwiues to the which also may be ioyned the Liturgy of the English church at Geneua which cōdemneth the mynistring of either of the sacraments in priuate houses or by women Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. chap. of the. 1. ep to the Corinthes in describing the corruptions of the Lordes supper noteth thys to be one that the church dyd not communicate altogether which corruption as it was in dyuers places in times past so he complayneth that it is now M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ and. 7. chap. proueth out of the. 10. to the Corinth that the whole church should receiue the supper of the Lord together and that the vse of the church of God in thys behalfe ought with great and dyligent endeuour to be restored vnto the churches that it is a contempt of the mysteries not to be partakers when they are called M. Beza agaynst Westphalus sheweth that it is not decent that baptisme be mynistred but in the church that at standing houres and by the mynisters and further that vppon no necessitie as it is called it ought to be mynistred in priuate houses And that if it might be mynistred in priuate houses yet no otherwyse then by mynisters M. Caluin in hys institutions 4. booke chap. 15. sect 20. 21. proueth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by priuate men or by any women 9. The iudgement of those late wryters touching ceremonies and apparell whose secret Epistles M. Doctor alledgeth appeareth by these places folowing cited but of their workes Printed and published by them selues Wherof also some are alledged by the answerer to the examiner where are diuers other places to thys purpose wherunto I referre the Reader M. Bucer vpon the. 18. of Math. sayth that they say nothing which doe alwayes obiect that greater things must be vrged then the reformation of ceremonies therby defending the reliques of Antichrist forasmuch as ceremonies are testimonies of religion And that as there is no agreement betwene Christ and Belial so those which are sincere Christians can abyde nothing of Antichrist Peter Martyr vpon the .10 c. of the .2 booke of the kings sayeth that the Lutheranes must take heede least whilest they cut of many popishe errors they follow Iehu by retayning also many popish things For they defend still the reall presence in the breade of the supper and images and vestmentes c. and sayth that relygion must be wholy reformed to the quicke Bullinger in hys Decades 5. booke and. 9. sermon sayth that our sauior Christ the Apostles vsed their accustomed apparell in the supper and that although in times past the ministers put on a kynde of cloke vppon their common apparell yet that was done neither by the example of Christ nor of hys Apostles but by the tradition of man and that in the ende after the example of the priestes apparell in the olde law it was cast vpon the mynisters at the ministration of the supper But sayeth he we haue learned long agoe not only that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated but also that they ought to bee brought agayne into the church of no man And therefore seing we are in the light of the gospell and not vnder the shadow of the law we doe worthely reiect that massing Leuiticall apparell Gualter vpon the. 21. of the Actes among others bringeth thys for one reason to improue Paules shauing of hys head for that the gospell had beene preached .xx. yeares and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to haue beene borne with And after hee sayeth that that teacheth how much the supersticious masters of ceremonyes hurte the gospell which nourishe the weakenes of fayth by the long keeping of ceremonyes and by their long bearing hynder the doinges of those mynisters which are more feruent FINIS Prouer. 8. 15. 2. Chap. 34. 60. chap. 12. 3. Deut. 25. 2. Samu. 7. 2. Psal 132. Esra 3. 3. 10. Agg. 1. 14. 2. kin 22. 23. 2. kin 18. 2. Chr. 17. 8 Chap. 17. 18 1. Cor. 1. 27. 28 2. Chro. 29. 34 2. Chr. 30. 17. 2. Kin. 5. 4. 14 1. Sam. 25. 18 1. Agg. 234. 1. Cor. 3. 12. 13 2. Cor. 6. 15. Cap. 2. 42. 43. Rom. 12. 18. 2. Cor. 10.
them For so doth Cyprian cal the bishops of that prouince in his epistle his fellow bishops and in diuers places his brethren And in the sentence which he spake in the coūcel of Carthage he sayth none of vs doth take him selfe to be bishop of bishops Nowe that there was no authoritye of one byshop ouer an other and that there was none suche as when controuersies roase tooke vppon hym the compounding of them or any one to whome it appertained to see the vnitye of the church kept and to see that all other bishops and the cleargy did their duety as M. Doctor beareth vs in hand it may clearely be seene in diuers places of Cyprian and first of all in that sentence which he spake in the councel of Carthage where he proceedeth further after this sort that none of them did by any tirannicall feare binde his felowes in office or any fellow byshops to any necessity of obedience seeing that euery bishop hath for his free libertye and power hys owne iudgement or discretion as one which can not be iudged of an other as he also hym selfe can not iudge an other But sayth he we ought to tary and waite for the iudgement of our Lord Iesus Christ which only and alone hath power to set vs ouer hys church to iudge of our doing And in the same Epistle whereout the first place is taken by M. Doctor he sayth that vnto euery one a portion of the flocke is appoynted which euery one must rule and gouerne as he that shall render an accompt of hys deede vnto the lord And in an other place hee sayth we doe not vse any compulsion or vyolence ouer any nor appoynt no law to any seeing that euery one that is set ouer the church hath in the gouernment the free disposition of hys owne will whereof he shall geue an accompt vnto the lord And yet Cyprian was the byshop of the metropolitane or cheefe seate and one whome for hys learning and godlynesse the rest no doubt had in great reuerence and gaue great honor vnto And whereas it is sayde for the preseruation of vnitie one must be ouer all S. Cyprian sheweth that the vnitie of the church is conserued not by hauing one byshop ouer all But by the agreement of the byshops one with an other For so he wryteth that the church is knit and coupled together as it were with the glew of the byshops consenting one with an other and as for the compounding of controuersies it is manyfest that it was not done by one byshop in a prouince but those byshoppes whych were neere the place where the schisme or heresie sprang For speaking of the appeasing of controuersies and schismes and shewing how dyuers byshops were drawne into the heresie of Nouatus he sayth that the vertue and strength of the Christians was not so decayed or languished but that there was a portion of priestes which dyd not geue place vnto those ruines and shipwrackes of fayth And in an other place he sayth therefore most deare brother the plentifull body or company of the priests are as it were with the glew of mutuall concorde bande of vnitie ioyned together that if any of our company be author of an heresie and goe about to destroy and rent the flocke of Christ the rest should helpe and as profitable mercifull shepheards gather together the sheepe of the Lord wherby it is manifest that the appeasing composing of controuersies heresies was not then thought to be most fitte to be in one byshops hand but in as many as coulde conueniently assemble together according to the danger of the heresie which sprang or deepe roote which it had taken or was like to take And that there was in his time no such authoritie geuen as that any one might remoue the causes or controuersies which rose as now we see there is when the byshop of the diocese taketh the matters in controuersie which rise in any church within hys diocese from the minister and elders to whome the decision pertayneth and as when the archbyshop taketh it away from the byshop it may appeare in the same thirde Epistle of the first booke where he sayth after this sort It is ordayned it is equall and right that euery mans cause shoulde be there hearde where the fault was committed And a little after he sayth It is meete to handle the matter there where they may haue both accusers and witnesses of the fault whiche although it be spoken of them which fied out of Affrike vnto Rome yet the reason is generall and doth as wel serue agaynst these Ecclesiasticall persons which will take vnto them the decyding of those controuersies that were done a hundreth mile of them And whereas M. Doctor in both places of Cyprian semeth to stand much vpon the wordes One Byshop and priest the reason thereof doth appeare in an other place of Cyprian most manifestly and that it maketh no more to proue that there ought to be one archbyshop ouer a hole prouince then to say that there ought to be but one husbande proueth that therefore there should be but one husbande in euery countrey or prouince which shoulde see that all the rest of the husbandes doe their dueties to their wyues For thys was the case A Nouatian hereticke being condemned and cast out of the churches of Affrica by the consent of the byshops not able by embassage sent to them to obtayne to be receiued to their communion and fellowship agayne goeth afterwardes to Rome and being lykewise there repelled in tyme getteth hym selfe by certayne which fauoured hys heresie to be chosen byshop there at Rome Cornelius being the byshop or pastor of those which were there godly mynded whereupon it commeth that Cyprian vrgeth one byshop one priest in the church because at Rome there was two whereof one was a wolfe which ought not to haue bene there considering there was but one church which was gathered vnder the gouernmēt of Cornelius And therefore by that place of Cyprian it can not be gathered that there ought to be but one byshop in one citie if the multitude of professors require more and that all can not well gather them selues together in one congregation to be taught of one man much lesse can it serue to proue that there should be but one in a whole diocese or prouince I graunt that in later tymes and which went more from the simplicitie of the primitiue church they tooke occasion of these wordes to decree that there should be but one byshop in a citie but that can neuer be concluded of Cyprians wordes if it be vnderstanded why he vrgeth one byshop and one priest If therefore neyther word byshop nor priest do make any thing to proue an archbyshop nor thys worde church doth imply any prouince nor in these wordes one byshop one priest there is nothing lesse ment then that there should be one archbyshop ouer all the
byshops and cleargie in a prouince and if Cyprian will neyther allow of the title of archbyshop nor of the authoritie and office but in playne wordes speaketh agaynst both we may conclude that M. Doctor hath done very vnaduisedly to lay so great waight of the archbyshop vppon S. Cyprians shoulders that wâ—ilnot only not beare any thing of hym but which hath done all that coulde be to make hym goe a foote and hand in hand with hys fellowes There are other reasons which M. Doctor vseth as thys a notable one S. Cyprian speaketh not of the vsurped power of the byshop of Rome therefore he speaketh of the office of an archbyshop and metropolitane It is hard to call thys argument to any head of fallation for it hath not so much as a colour of a reason I thincke it can deceiue no body but your self An other reason is that all the godlyest best learned meÌ„ do expound the place of Cyprian in the 3. epist. of the first booke of an archbyshop The vanitie of thys saying that the godly learned wryters so expound it I haue shewed before and heere it commeth to be considered agayne I will not say that no godly nor learned wryter expoundeth the place of Cyprian of the authoritie of an archbishop But first I desire M. Doctor to set downe but one and then I will leaue it to thy consyderation gentle reader to thincke whether M. Doctor hath red any learned or godly mans exposition to be suche when he hath not red those which are nearest hym I meane our owne countrey men I say he hath not red them because I woulde thinke charitably so of hym rather then that he shoulde haue red them and yet speake vntruely of them and father those things of them which they neuer speake M. Iewell the byshop of Sarisburie expounded thys place and yet dyd neuer expounde it of the office and authoritie of an archbyshop of all the byshops and clergie of the prouince but cleane contrarywise applyeth it to the authoritie that euery byshop had in hys diocesse hys wordes are these Now therefore to draw that thing by violence to one only byshop that is generally spoken of all byshops is a guilefull fetch to misseleade the reader and no simple nor playne dealing Heere you see that M. Iuel doth not vnderstande thys of any archbyshop but of euery byshop M. Nowel Deane of Poules hauing occasion to speake of this place sayth on thys sort So that when he speaketh meaning Cyprian of one byshop one iudge in the churche for the time or of the byshop whych is one and ruleth the church absolutely he meaneth euery byshop in his owne diocesse wythout exception If he speake specially he meaneth the byshop of the citye or diocese wherof he entreateth whether it be the byshop of Rome Carthage or any other place M. Fore also expoundeth thys of euery byshop wythin hys owne churche or diocese You heare the iudgement of these three wryters that can not picke out neyther the name nor the office of an archbyshop out of Cyprians place and yet I thinke you wil not deny but these were learned and godly wryters Now I haue shewed you three I aske once againe of you one godlye and learned wryter that expoundeth it as you doe And by thys time I suppose all men vnderstande what a small friend S. Cyprian is eyther to the name or office of an archbyshop Let vs heare whether Ierome make any more for the archbyshop then did Cyprian The Hebrues doe deriue the name of time of a verbe whych signifyeth to corrupt because in dede it doth corrupt all and as the times are so are meÌ„ which liue in them that euen very good men carye the note of the infection of the times wherin they liue and the streame of the corruption therof being so vehemeÌ„t and forcible doth not only driue before it light things but it cateth also and weareth the very hard and stony rockes and therfore there is not to be loked for such sinceritie at Ierome his hand whych we found in S. Cyprian considering that he liued some ages after Cyprian what time sathan had a great deale more darkned the cleare light of the sonne of the gospell then it was in S. Cyprians time For as those that came nearest vnto the apostles times because they were nearest the light â–ª did see best so those that were further of from these lightes had vntill the time of the manifestation of the sonne of perdition their heauens more darke and cloudy and consequeÌ„tly did see more dimly whych is diligently to be obserued of the reader bothe the better to vnderstand the state of thys question and all other controuersies whych lie betweene vs and the papistes And although Ierome besides his other faultes might haue also in thys matter spoken more soundly yet we shall easely perceiue that he is a great deale further from eyther the title or office of an archbyshop or else from the authority that a byshop hath with vs then he is from the simplicity of the ministery which ought to be and is commended vnto vs by the worde of God. And heere I must put M. Doctor in remembrance howe vnfitly he hath dedicated his boke vnto the churche whych hath so patched it and peeced it of a number of shreds of the doctors that a sentence of the scripture eyther truely or falsely alledged is as it were a Phenix in thys boke If he would haue had the church beleue hym he oughte to haue setled their iudgement and grounded their faith vpon the scriptures whych are the only foundations whervpon the church may build Nowe he doth not only not geue them grounde to stand of but he leadeth them into wayes whych they can not folowe nor come after him For except it be those whych are learned and besides haue the meanes and abilitye to haue the bokes whych are heere cited which are the least and smallest portion of the church how can they know that these things be true whych are alledged and as I haue said if they could know yet haue they nothing to stay them selues vpon and quiet their conscience in allowing that which M. Doctor would so faine haue them like of Therefore he might haue much more fitly dedicated his booke vnto the learned and riche whych haue furnished libraries Ierome sayeth that at the first a byshoppe and an Elder whych you call priest were all one but afterward through factions schismes it was decreed that one should rule ouer the rest Now I say against this order that the bishop shoulde beare rule ouer all that which our sauioure Christ sayth vnto the Pharises from the beginning it was not so and therefore I require that the first order may stande which was that a byshop elder were all one And if you place so great authoritie agaynst the institution of God in a mortall man heare what Tertullian sayth vnto you