saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things which beloÌ„g ad ciÌ„sur as causas boneficiales c Vt. supra Sic Bellar. de Concil lib 〈◊〉 cap 7 Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope saith that indeed that of Censures of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the CouÌ„cel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vs that such part of the CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce as did set the CouÌ„cel aboue the Pope was caslated cashiered but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin Is not your provorb here true So many meÌ„ so manie minds that faith giveÌ„ to I. Hus may be brokeÌ„ as being to an heretik shal staÌ„d for good doctrin but the allowaÌ„ce of the d Cochâ—… in Hist Hussit l. 7. Eucharist in both kinds made to the Hussits by y e deputies of the couÌ„cel of Basil the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also who there was quit of being conc Basil Sess 36. coÌ„ceived in Original sin whervpoÌ„ dependeth the feast of the coÌ„cepâ—… of our Lady as you cal it wherof what the FraÌ„ciscane Friers will thinke I leane to your consideration By this men may see how wise the Pope is who will surely liue without his damme if we will let him alone when albeit all the Prelates of Christendome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing Nay if Martin say yea confirme it Leo comming after will say No and vndoe it So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs their holy Ghost is nothing Somewhat it was that Pope f Platin ain Faschal 2 Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit he had power to close and seale and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler That you must thinke to be all the world and by a consequent the generallest Councell Open your eies Papists and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion You were as good take a compendious course and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many meÌ„ about nothing then the resolutioÌ„ must be with g Centu. 16 in An. 1518 Silvester Prierias that the Popes authority is farre before the CouÌ„cels yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vpon the authority of the Pope or with h Ibidem Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels which Luther good man would not beleeue I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God and sincerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can and beeing directed by Gods spirit word may conclude that which must stand good and you say that be they never so many so learned so holy do they what they wil yet if the Pope like not of it he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any goodnes it is not al worth a straw 10 I cannot here omit that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter is nowe cast downe by your owne heele I coÌ„mended you too soone A black More cannot change his skinne and you will to your owne biace Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same authority and this you meane to be your Popes but they are gathered also The impudencie of this Proposition which in a worde you thinke to steale away with I haue shewed before The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head nor soule haue saide such a word in the time of the Primitiue Church He should haue been most arrogant before God and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master if he had assumed that vnto him I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates let mee now quit that with another Thus then he saith i Soc in pro aemio lib. 5. I haue everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours becacause since that time that they began to be Christians the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vpon thâ—…â—…cke yâ—… and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or order called together and yet are so called Alas there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in coÌ„vocating such Occumenicall assemblies till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head he began to bee a little bold but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of k Coch hist. Huss lib. 9. Basile held at the same time and which was assembled before by his owne authority but afterward thwatted some of his designes the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane Lions or Vienna where their ancestours before had not beene but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone And therefore as l Li. 4. Chr. Genebrarde saith they who came to the meeting at FloreÌ„ce count that the eighth Synode which is to be vnderstood if they hold it for a Synode at all And in the m Scss. 5. 6. Councell of Florence it selfe the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall CouÌ„cel albeit it was held at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople they saying first that it never was at all received and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated For in as much as it had condemned Phoâ—ius Patriarke of Constantinople his successour Iohn called another Synode and antiquated the former Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with
be deceivid The holy Ghost directeth thē who haue fitted themselues as aledging to intertaine him by good workes But how should he visite them who thwarte the spirite and seeke to extinguish him in other men which in steede of the fire of charity are inflamed with the heat of ambition These will heare nothing which is contrary to their own lust and taste nothing of spirituall giftes and come with a false hart to handle Gods businesses seeking those thinges vvhich are their evvne and not Gods which if Paule coulde say of his time we may much more say of the dregs of our daies With such the holye Ghost is not and such stubborne ones woulde not yeelde to the motions thereof Now if the Spirit bee not with such and the greatest part of Councels consist of such and there the Decrees are made by the maiour parte of voices may not Councels erre I speake not this of the present Councell at Basile for there I heare mante good thinges are handled but yet I heare there bee many things there vvhich shoulds not bee contentions emulations heart-burnings clamours which the Spirite doeth not desire There had neede be good men sent to Councels that God may bee amonge them The ancient Fathers did vse vvith praying fasting and vveeping to begge at Gods hande that his Spirite mighte bee present at Councels amonge them to direct them which they needed not to haue done if they ware sure that hee coulde not bee absent UUee reade in the Scripture that for one mans sinne an armie of Gods freindes hath beene overthrowne One sicke sheepe infecteth a vvhole flocke And since on one mans sentence or voice the vvhole assemblie dependeth may not he both be deceived and deceiue a vvhole Councell To doe all thinges vvell and never to erra is onelye the parte of GOD but the vvorlde knovveth that men are not Gods not Angels but such as of vvhome it is saide All men are lyers They are subiect to passions and ignoraunces which overtake men the more when by vaine pride they vvoulde put them from them If you saie that it resteth not on humane infirmitie but it is of the povver of the holye Ghost that the Councell cannot bee deceived vvho is certaine that vvith the maiour parte of the Councell vvhich must preponderate the holye Ghost is present If you sa◅e it is likelye the spirite is in some sevve and they may vvorke the rest to the right what if the multitude haue deserved to be deceived So Micheas could doe no good on all Achabs Prophets And who knoweth whither the maiour parte of the Councell bee vvorthie to bee deceived or no God in Ieremie did for sake the temple vvherein the levves did trust and hee badde the Prophet that hee shoulde not pray for them for he would not heare him Therefore good mens praiers doe not alvvaies obtaine for the wicked Yea but hee hath promised to bee vvith his Church to the ende of the vvorlde But hee alone knovveth vvho they are that haue grace in his Church The Lorde knovveth vvho are his The Church by grace may remaine in one onelye vvoman as in the time of the passion it did onelye in the Uirgin Marie Shall a Councell now bee of greater authoritye then all the Apostles vvere And yet they all declined at Christes death and vvere afraide Shall is bee greater then all the militant Church of vvhich Augustine saide that heere it cannot bee vvithout spotte or vvrinckle but in the nevv Hierusalem it must be What should be the reason that the foure first Coūcels specially be in such estimation with all but that there were better men then sinca haue bin they framed thēselues to aske what the spirit was willing vnto These late ones are Coūcels of blend assemble about such things as flesh bloud only would haue them Then he telleth the tale how at Rome in a Councell a little before gathered by Iohn the 24. an Owle appeared looking directly vpō the Pope to the amasemēt of some to the great scorne of other Then he proceedeth By the vnworthines of the head or the maior part the Coūcel may misse of a good end other such causes there may be as too much listning to tēporal peace or too much presūptrē of their own grace wisdome or negligence of looking into the word of God It is good therfore that they who meete in such assemblies be not too bold In another q Tract priore de materia Conc. Generalis treatise of this same argumēt he had warned before that men should not say as of likelyhood some did Wee are a Generall Councell let vs goe to it boldelye vv◅ cannot erre What Papist will not think that this man in the matter of Coūcels is more a Calvinist thē Calvin himselfe Let these reasons be well waighed and then iudge whither too much bee to be attributed to Councels besids those flawa cracks which I formerly mentioned as who are to call Councels who are to haue voices in Councels whither the Pope be to be subiected to a Councell or no which the Pope and all his flatterers cannot endure 15 He who list to knowe more of the Popes challenge touching his owne calling and overbalancing Councels let him looke the censure of r Hist. Hussit l. 9 Cochleus vpon the Synode at Basile There hee affirmeth that assembly to be but a Conciliable or Conventicle after that Pope Eugenius had given out his summons that hee woulde haue that meeting to bee removed to Ferrara first but afterward to Florence else there had beene at one time two general Councels and consequently two Churches Also that the fathers at Basile with their Antipape Felix were for eight yeares in a schisme against Eugenius and yet they gaue out that they had the holy Ghost among them That to call a Councell by ancient right belongeth to the Bishop of Rome That it pertayneth not to sheepe to iudge their shepheard But Eugenius himselfe with more maiesty and Pope-like state could say s Ibidem To that robbery at Basill all the Divels of the world doe seeme to haue come togither To these bracks about Councels this one farther may be ioyned that they say a Councell is not good vnlesse the Pope confirme it For now how shall we know whether a Synode bee confirmed or no vnlesse there be some Bull or Decree published concerning that particular since s In Iudice Concilio◅ Possevinus the Iesuit in rekoning vp the Councels nameth foure at A◅les one at Laodicea fiue at Orleans and divers other which he saith are of greate authority for although an open confirmation of them be not founde yet they are allowed of by a secret consent of the Church and the Popes and Doctors citing them This is a point which may breede great difficulty whither that be inough to ratifie a Synode or no. Also it were good that before we make Coūcels a matter of beliefe we were
answered truely say that it was in England in France in Spaine in Italy yea in Rome it selfe Spiritus vbi vult spirat The holy Ghost breatheth Ioh. 3. 8. where it pleaseth For who cannot conceiue by the writings of many in former ages or by such touches as other doe giue concerning them that diverse who lived nearest the whore of Babylon did most detest her abomination finding that the weakenesse and impurity of her doctrine could not truely satisfie the hungry thirsty soule did according to that knowledge which Christ out of his word reveiled to theÌ„ seeke some meanes which was not ordinarily professed in that time And if it be asked who they were and how could they lie hid from the world it may truly bee answered that their case was like the case of them in the daies of s 1. Reg. 19. 18. Elias who were not known to that State which would haue persecuted them Now why should not we thinke but as God had his secret and invisible company at that time in that most idolatrous country so in the time of the deepest darknesse he had those who saw light this Christian children among Antichrists broode such as embraced true religion among the superstitious So that Italy and Rome and these Westerne parts had some of Godâ—… Saints in all ages who like sea-fish most fresh in the faltest water and being removed in their affections though not in their persons did with 〈◊〉 Lot vexe their righteous soules in the 2 Pet 〈◊〉 8. middest of a spiritual Sodome and kept themselues 〈◊〉 vnspotted â—…am 1. 27. of the world And yet it is not to be taken that we coâ—…rctate the Church within those Provinces onely which looked toward the See of Rome but know that God had thousands of his elect elswhere Osor. li. 3. de gest Emanuel Christians haue beene in 〈◊〉 India even by perpetuall dilcent from the daies of the Apostles and so in Africa among the 〈◊〉 Abyssines in 〈◊〉 and huge-companies besides Li. 9. Dam. 〈◊〉 Goes de morib Aethiop such as haue continued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Asia the lesser Aegypt but especially in the Greeke Church which was never so much as in shew extinguished and from whome the Russians and Muscovites had their faith Our Popish lads would gladly shut al these out of Christs fold because they acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome for their vniversall Pastour but we should do wrong to Almighty God to pinne his iudgment vpon the Popes sleeue and to offer to pull from him so many ample Churches whereas charity and common sence might put vs in minde that hee might there haue thousandes throughout all ages Looke to these places yee Papists and imagine that if there had been none but these yet the wordes of the Scripture which in generality speake of a spowse had beene true and Christ had there had his body on earth and the Church had not beene vtterly extinguished if neither we nor the Synagoge of Rome had beene extant 32 But in as much as it cannot be denied but that the Prophecies concerning Antichrist doe most touch the Westerne world y Apoc. 17. 18. Rome being by the holy Ghost evidently designed to bee the seate of the whore of Babylon as also because our Romish standard-bearers are more willing to talke of those partes then of any other I will once againe returne to the Countreies neere adioining Then in some parts or other of Christendome how many men were there in al ages who loâ—…thed both the See of Rome the whole courses of it as the Israelites did loath the Aegyptian bondage Matthew Paris alone giveth vs many notable experiments that way as relating the Actes of the z In Hen. 3. Emperour Frederike who put out diverse declarations in detestation of the Pope and adding else where farther of his owne that a Ibidem Pope Gregory did absolve from the oth of fealty all who were bound vnto the Emperour perswading them that they should bee faithfull in vnfaithfulnesse obedâ—…nt in disobedâ—…ence But somuch deserved the Romane Churches lowdnesse which is to be exâ—…ed of all men that the Popes authority did meritâ—… to bee harkened vnto by few or none He reporteth also of a certaine b Ibidem Carthusian Monke aâ—… Cambridge who cryed out against the Pope and said that he was an heretike and that the Churches were profaned And of Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lancolne who was a man both holy and learned in his time This Lincolniensis while hee lived had many Combates with the Bishoppe of Rome and openly resisted his barbarous tyranny in dominering so farre in Englande as to inioyne Provision of the best Benefices to be taken vp for Italian boyes which for a c Lincolniens epistol Prebend in his Church at Lincolne hee vvould not yeeld vnto and for that cause vvas by the Pope excommunicated But vvhen he was d Matth Paris in Hen. 3 dying hee most bitterly inveighed against the Romane Bishop and the Ecclesiasticall Persons as being the most wâ—…ked men that did liue In the same e Ibidem Authour you may also find the conceite which the most Reverende Arch-bâ—…shop of Yorke Sewaldus had of them and their proceedings VVhat should I mention f Hoveden parte secuÌ„da loachim who said that in his time Antichrist was already borne and was in the Citty of Rome Or that Bishop of g Platina in Paschal 2. Florence who lived about the yeare 1100. and did vse to say that Antichrist was then in the worlde which mooved Pope Paschalis so much as that he thought fit to enquire of him in a Councell and did there castigate him for it Notable in this kind are the contentions of Philippus Pulcher the King of Fraunce and his whole Cleargy against h Pap. Masâ—…on in Bonifac 8. Boniface the eighth I might adde to these Petrus de Brus and many other learned men who laid the axe to the very roote of Popery and some in set Treatises oppugned one of their documents and some assaulted other but that the writer of the Catalogus Testium veritatis as it is lately enlarged and i In Histor. Ecclesiast Master Foxe and Master k In Catal. script Brit. Laur. HuÌ„â—…r â—…uitism part 1. Bale and diverse 1 other haue largely handled this to the reading of vvhose bookes I doe referte them who in particular desire to bee more advertised in this behalfe Now if these things doe appeare much by their owne witnesse and by the confession of Papistes themselues as also by such few Records as by Gods providence so disposing doe yet remaine howe many illustrious argumentes might there haue beene of the confession of our faith if the Clergy and Magistracy of those darke times had not burned suppressed all things which made against thâ—… as I shewed before touching the bookes of Iohn VViclef and Reginald Pecocke in Oxford The Clergy in those dayes did almost
question it When the Iesuites mainetaine that the Excommunication Consistorially given against her late Maiesty is a right and Papall sentence but the Seminarians their abetters avouch it to bee a matter of fact and not of faith and therefore the Pope may there in erre And is there one beleefe when you caÌ„not doctrinally agree whither the Pope or the Generall Councell be the greater When not long since m Pigh Eccles Hier. lib. 1. 2. Papists did mainetaine that the authority of the Church was aboue the Scriptures but the n Bellar. de Concil lib. 2. 12. Iesuites now deny it and the o In Gal. 2. 2. Rhemistes as moderatours cannot well tell what to make of it but in some sences rather bend to the prerogatiue of the Church And as you haue reformed many other things in Popery so is your service the same When your Breviaries or Porteises are so much altered since the time of the Councell of Trent and so many shamefull things put out which if they were impious or idolatrous your people before those daies were in a pretty pickle As Georgius Timotheus being more nasute then their predecessors did purge their p Socr. Eccles Hist. 7. 6. Arrianisme and cleared it of many the blasphemies of Arius retaining such as were more plausible so Pius the 5. cleansed the Breviary of many absurdities and helde only those things which he supposed were more defensible q Bellar de verbo Dei lib. 2. 11. In your new Missals also many texts are altered from that which was in the old Your LegeÌ„daries in former times were read in the midst of your Congregations accepted for good truth yet now you reiect your ancient books insomuch that r Motiv 5. Bristow himselfe disclaimeth vncertaine or false Miracles which they reade saith he in I know not what Legenda Aurea so contemptuously he speaketh of it and now that only must goe for currant which s De Vitiâ—… SanctoruÌ„ Surius Lippoman haue revised and allowed Nay hath the Church of Rome ever had one beleefe when the foundations of their faith in which vvill they nill they their soule and salvation must bee acknowledged to consist are and haue beene so and such among them that no man can well tell what to make or determine of them I meane the Scripture which is vnto them as a deade law and the Pope which is as the living Magistrate For first touching the Scriptures we know that with them the Latin Vulgar Edition is only authenticall and so the s Session 4. Councell of Trent hath defined it whereas the Originals of the Hebrew and Greeke which are the first and clearest fountaines are but basely esteemed by many of them insomuch that they t Prolog ad Lector ante li. 1. Esdr. who put out the Complutensian Bible say that they haue set the Latin there betweene the Greeke and Hebrew as Christ was vpon the Crosse betweene the tvvo theeves Now what can any man make of this their Latin Copy when besides the difference of it from the Originals against which we most except it is in it selfe so often altered and chopped and changed for besides the Castigations Corrections of the Lovanists and Coleinists and I cannot tell how many the Pope Sixtus 5. did cause it to be revewed 〈◊〉 professing that hee had amended very much of it he made it to be new printed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praefixa Biblijs Sixti quinti. prefixed a Bul before it testifying that he in his own person had gone through the whole Copie and iudged of it yea amended the faultes escaped in the Printers Presse with his owne hand therfore did give charge by that his ConstitutioÌ„ which was evermore to stand in force that it should never afterward bee altered or any other Copy of the Vulgar Edition bee vsed And if anâ—…e did attempte contrary to his Decree then hee shoulde incâ—…rre the displeasure of Almightie GOD and of the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paule This vvas published but in the yeere 1589. and vvithin three yeeres after Anno 1592. commeth Pope Clement the 8. and vnder a coulour that his Predecessour Sixtus had inteÌ„ded torevise his Bible once againe but that hee dyed before hee could effect it hee putteth out another in many hundreds of textes differing from the former so that the diversities compared togither doe make a 〈◊〉 prettie booke and there is little more variety 〈◊〉 Bellum Papale Thomâ—… Iames. for materiall pointes betweene the translation vsed in the Church of England and the Rhemish Testament then is betweene these two And since the nexte Pope vvho succeedeth vvill thinke scorne but to have as much auctoritie as his Anteceslour it may bee chopped not onely once more but many times so that the Romish Church may bee saide to bee so farre of from Vnitie in Veritie that of certainty they have not the Scriptures vvhereon their faith must bee builte but they in former times and these in this present age have various groundes to rest themselves vpon Secondly as nowe it is with the Scriptures so it hath beene heeretofore vvith the Popes when they have had 23. severall Schismes Antipapes being erected the one against the other and those broyles sometimes continuing for scores of yeeres togither vvithout interruption so that all Christendome by partaking vvith them hath beene in an vprore and thousandes by that meanes have beene murthered Novve if it bee such an Article of faith that the Church must bee beleeved yea beleeved in and this Church is the Romane Church and is ministerially inspired by the heade and the heade is not onely like bifidus 〈◊〉 a hill vvith tvvo toppes but triplex Gerion or tricâ—…ps 〈◊〉 vvitlâ—… three partes as it was a little x Vide Câ—…cil Constantions before the Councel of Constance three Popes vsurping at one time and everie one of these doe eurse to the deepest bottome of the lovvest hell all that stande against them nay all vvho are not vvith them and in their Consistories if they bee Popes they cannot erre Will any man vvho hath his vvittes about him thinke that here is one Faith and one 〈◊〉 in the Romish Cocke-pit And especially when these Popes shall against the Antipapes proclaime Croisadoes that men are to marke themselves with the signe of the Crosse and fight against their adversaries as against Turkes Saracens and Infidels the knowne enemies of the Christian profession Heare this yee Papists blush when you mention your Vnity T. HILL BVT on the other side if you looke into the dâ—…ings of Protestants you shall see such dissensions such divisions such schisâ—…s such contraâ—…tie of opinions as the like was never among the Arrians among the Eutychians among the Donatists among the Nestorians among the Valentinians 〈◊〉 yet amâ—…ngest the most â—…arring Heretikes that ever were So as you may plainely beholde in Luther his seede the selfe same thing that the Poets faine of
approved the doctrin of the Papacy acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. This was about the yeer 1439. And to shew his facility in this kind of invention the same Eugenius provided some to come not into the couÌ„cel for feare of the pack being discovered but about the ending of it who said that they were the Legats of the Patriark of Armeniâ—… who also professed to allow the faith of the Pope to approue that which was concluded in the CoÌ„veÌ„ticle of FloreÌ„ce And because such fine trickes as these shold not grow cleane out of vse at the last meeting at TreÌ„t t Idem in Session 21. Pope Pius the 4. had such a PageaÌ„t For he caused Amulius the Cardinal theÌ„ abiding at Rome with him to write a solemne letter to the Fathers at TreÌ„t that one Abdisu the Patriarke of the AssiriaÌ„s in the East dwelling neere the river Tigris was by the advise of his people come to Rome the yeare before accoÌ„panied with some Priests a Deacon That the Pope in a full consistory of his Cardinals had pronounced him to be the Patriarke Pastour of that people yet not so but that first he did heare him make the coÌ„fession of his faith and tooke an othe of him to keepe obedience to the See Apostolike That departing away hee desired to have sent him a copy of the Decrees of the Tridentine couÌ„cel wheÌ„ all there shold be accoÌ„plished But in the meane while he did testify that the same faith which is nowe helde in the Church of Rome had without any variatioÌ„ bin among theÌ„ since the daies of the Apostles All this was divulged after that Abdisu was gone from Rome to the end that no maÌ„ might disprove it What a wroÌ„g did you to your cause that you did not put these in especially since the Iurisdiction of this Patriarke was so large that hee had vnder him in the Great Turkes dominion seaven Archbishoprickes all Metropolitans thirteene Bishoprickes vnder the Sophy of of Persia five Arch-bishoprickes Metropolitane thirteene Bishoprickes â—…yea vnder the dominion of the Portingals in India three Arch-bishoprickes one Bishopricke VVould not this have made a faire shewe when your troupes vvere in the fielde you have done your Lord and Maister the Pope wronge so to oover-skippe these in such a fashion For our part we must winke at such simple trickes as these bee Yet these will serve to abuse the children of vnbeleefe and to gulle many a good silye Papist 11 Some kind harted man wil pity me that wheÌ„ you leade me such a daunce over all the world as you doe I must bee bound to follow you But let my friends take no care for if you make not very good hast I shall bee in some of the places as soone as you Now we come to the new worlds whereof our great Grand-fathers never heard and there we must thinke that Popery springeth by thousands In what countrey are you Sir when to make vp your foure quarters you put Iaponia in the North It is within lesse then ten degrees of the Tropicke and more Southward then Spaine yet with you it must bee North. So Brasilia is South-ward when yet the vpper parte thereof is verie neere to the line If you had named the South Continent for South and the Iles tovvard the Northerne Pole for North or else Cathay vvee had better allovved thereof But vvee must take what you give vs and you must give vvhat you gette VVee vvill for the while doe you the favour as to imagine you to stand iust vnder the Aequinoctial But the coÌ„mon bragge which is agreed vpoÌ„ amoÌ„g you is that you have large harvests in the new world Bristowe u Motiv 2â—… saith that the Church hath in those partes vvonne more incomparably then iâ—… hath lost by Heretikes in these our partes Stapleton goeth as farre beyond him as hee goeth beyond the truth Thus then hee talketh 〈◊〉 Though in very deede through the A Discourse vpoÌ„ the doctrin of the Protestantes pernicious persuasions of that wedded Frier certaine places and couers of Christendome have svvarved from the Catholike Church and authority of the Apostolike Seâ—… in these North partes of the world yet it hath thousands folde more beene enlarged in the West parts and the new lands found out by Spanyards and Portingales in these late yeeres as the letters of the Iesuites directed from those countries into these partes doe evidently and Miraculouslie declare Hee who wrote the Apologie of the Seminaries harpeth vpon this string but with a lower tone z Chap. 6. The Iesuites in the East Indies have brought countries which were very barbarous and the most potent Princes of them togither vvith the provinces and people subiect vnto them to the Catholike Romans faith y Con. Davidem Chytraeum Possevinus your great States-man proclaimeth that in these laÌ„ds lately discovered it is a miracle of al miracles to see how many be coÌ„ verted meÌ„ going through so many seas to do it then without weapoÌ„ or force alluring theÌ„ to Christ. But al these great clamors not withstanding they who will read either your own writers or other know how it standeth wel enough Then briefly to open the truth In the yeare Pet. Mar. Decad. 1. 1. 1492 ColuÌ„bus the Genoway with some Spanyards at the charge of Ferdinandus Elizabeth king and Queene of Castile did faile so far to the West that he came to the Ilands since called Cuba Hispaniola The matter vvhich there they aimed at was store of gold and silver which the couÌ„try did yeeld afterward they did light also there-about on aboundance of pearle all which were sweet baites for the greedy needy Spanyards The fame of this stirred vp both the Princes to send the subiects to goe in huge numbers thither when not longâ—… after the maine lande of America was descryed and after that Peru the South sea the kingdome of Mexico a Benzo in nova novi orbis hâ—stâ—ria li. 1 2. In all these rich Provinces did these Spanyards set footing and finding them litle better then naked men without armour yron or steele having only for their weapons clubs and simple bowes arrowes they without leaue or liking of the inhabitants built at first Castles in divers places afterward at their pleasure townes citties Some of the ancient people there they slew downe in warâ—some other of them they caused to destroy one another either raysing new discords among them or cunningly perpetuating their olde thousands of them did these new commers slay taking them single and alone such as lived they inforced to bee their slaues causing theÌ„ to worke like brute beasts in their mines without any compassion of them where if they were slacke they were chastised with intolerable torture which made many of theÌ„ drown theÌ„selus some others throw theÌ„selus froÌ„ rocks or into the mines yea generally they so
will take paines to reade the Lives of the Saints as they are set downe by the foreinamed Authours Such trimme men are your miracle-workers and therefore your miracles must needes also be of an excellent sute T. HILL AND therefore I say vnto you out of Saint Austen I am bound and tyed in the Catholike Church by the band chaine August devtil cred c. 〈◊〉 l coÌ„t Epâ—…sund cap. 4 of miracles And I am bolde considering and most stedfastly beleeuing these insinite glorious miracles of all times ages in the Catholike Romane Church to crye out to Almighty God with Richard de S. Victore lib. de trin cap. 2. Lord if it be not true which we beleive thou hast deceived vs for these have bin confirmed in vs by such signes wonders as could not be wrought but by thee But on the contrarie parte never any Protestant could worke any miracle at all but assâ—…ying to make some shew thereof to make their Doctrine the more probable to their followers felte the iust revengement of God who turned all to their shame confusion as he did by Simon Magus by Cyrola the Patriarke of the Arrians as witnesseth Grego Turon Egesippus lib. 3 de excid hieroâ—…ol cap. 2 lib. 2. hist. Fran. cap. 3. by the Donatists Optatus lib. 2. contr Parmen 〈◊〉 our dates by Luther endevouring to dispossesse a wench and by Calvin going about to delude his disciples as you may read in Hierom Bolsec in vit Calvin cap. 13. And therfore they are most foolish Vid Staph in abs relp and miserably inconsiderate who beleeve these newe fellowes not being able to quicken a flea and leave the doctrine of the Catholike Church confirmed with innumerable miracles G. ABBOT 9 IN the texte you cite one saying out of Saint Austen but in the margent you quote two The 〈◊〉 former place doth only mention that the truth of Christian religion De vtilitat credend cap. 17. is coÌ„firmed by miracles But you therin abuse your Reader notably For he speaketh of miracles past that in Christs time and not of any which were to come or like to coÌ„tinue in the church The words to which hee alludeth are more plaine in the chapter next before going where in a larger sort he haÌ„dleth that argumeÌ„t Such x Cap 16 things were doÌ„e at that time wherin God in a trâ—… maÌ„ did appeere as much as was sufficient for men The sicke were healed the lepers vvere cleansed going was restored to the lame sight to the blind hearing to the deafe And there is speech of no other matter And to no other purpose is the second place where the words are not which you cite His saying is thus that there bee diverse thinges which doe keepe him in the bosome of the Church y Contr. Ep. fundament cap 4 The consent of people and nations doth holde mee there doth hold me an authority which was begon with miracles nourished by hope euer â—…ased by charity confirmed by antiquity Doth this make for you as you thinke or against you The authority of the Church was begon with miracles It is true meaning of the time of Christ and his Apostles but he doth not saye it was continued and must be continued vnto the worldes end much lesse doth he affirme that it must be as a necessary argumeÌ„t of truth So you haue gained much by these two places even as you haue done by the whole ranke of your woÌ„ders wherof such as appertaine to you that is the late LegeÌ„dary inventioÌ„s are many indeed but not infinite are so far from being glorious that they are plainely coÌ„temptible ridiculous fit for your vn-Catholike Romane struÌ„pet whose throne must be supported with lies and variety of falshoods In being therfore â—…old you may be more bold theÌ„ you haue thanke for your labour but do not saye that you most stedfastly beleeve for you bestow too good a word vpon your selfe In such stuffe as this is z Palingen in Geminis Quifacilis credit facilis quoque fallitur He who lightly beleeveth is easily deceived You are strongly conceited you haue a boisteous imagination froÌ„ which the sooner you fly the safer you wil stand The a De Trin. lib. 1 cap. 2 words of Richard de S. Victore are not spoken of your fabulous and instly questionable wonders but of such signes as gaue evidence to the first preaching of the Gospell were wrought by Christ and his disciples which were so true so strange as that they could be wrought by none but by the power of God and therefore we may beleeve the doctrine both of the Trinity and other matters which they confirmed and not be deceived at all Yet this addeth no credit to your forgeries illusions neither convinceth that now we are to depeÌ„d on miracles That we do not take on vs to be able to work any we do most willingly acknowledg We know that those daies are past although God do not so restraine himselfe but that the praiers of his servants interceding he sometimes suffereth strange things to be done But we caÌ„not presume vpoÌ„ it since we haue no warrant for it out of the word of God And who is there I pray you in the whole Hierarchy of your Papacy who dare professedly assume that gifte vnto him Dareth your Pope the ministerial head of al your holines dare your Cardinals your Bishops your Friers your Priestes Long agone the b Decretal lib. 5. tit 35. cap. 3. Templars in Livonia did enforce the poore people to this that if any of theÌ„ were accused of any crime to purge themselues they shold go bare-footed over certaine redde hot irons if they were burnt at all then they were helde for guilty But some newly coÌ„verted to the faith coÌ„plained of this to the Pope Honorius the 3. he inhibited that any more such triall should be made calling it a thing forbidden a greevance that wherin God was tempted The like may be said of any who presuÌ„ptuously should professe to atteÌ„pt any strange miraculous matter it is but a tempting of God even by the iudgmeÌ„t of c Isa 7 12. Ahaz nowe long agone who beeing but an evil man yet was so faire tightly instructed Yet that good hypocrite your S. Dominicke going to dispute against the d Ioh. Bâ—…isseul contr Spond Albingenses preteÌ„ding that he would proue theÌ„ heretikes did bid theÌ„ write their reasons cast theÌ„ in the fire if saith he they will not burne then we wil beleeue you As if the holy Bible were not truth if beeing cast into the flame it would burne to ashes You can tell vs tales of your men doing else-where great wonders but you should doe well to sende vs some of your miracle-mongers hither that we may iudge of their iugling You mutter much of an holy annointed Priest that he by exorcizing can cast out Devils but we wonder that these
Ecclesiasticus Wisdome into their Canon else where more theÌ„ i Deâ—…civita Dâ—…il 18. 36. contâ—… epist Gauden l. 2 once he coÌ„fesseth that they also seclude the books of the Ma chabees k In Synop. Athanasius also acknewledgeth that the books of the old TestameÌ„t are but 22. answering to the 22. Hebrew letters so saith Epiphanius in his treatise De mensuris ponderibus Hilary in his Prologe on the Psalmes hath the same Where it is to bee observed that the Iewish reckoning of these 22. bookes is some what different from that ordinary enumeration which we doe vse for they diverse times comprehende two bookes vnder one but yet so it is exactly that vvhatsoever vve containe within the compasse of the Canon they receaue the same and vvhat vvee doe reiecte they also refuse And that there is such a secluding of some bookes by the Ievves Thomas l Part 〈◊〉 qu 89 art 8 Aquinas maye bee a vvitnesse vvho maketh doubte vvhither Ecclesiasticus bee of authority or no saying The booke of Ecclesiasticus if it haue authority because among the Hebrews it is not received in the divine writingâ—… So that if vvee follovve the Church before Christ vnto whome most properly the Olde Testament did belong we must repute them as now we do Apocryphal hold their credit to be suspect Neither may this bee helped by saying that there was some later Synode vvhich made a larger Canon among the lewes â—…s m Chronog lib. 2. Genebrard would say if hee could tell what hee saide for that is a fable of his owne inventing directly crossing the Councel of Trent as formerly I haue shevved 10 Thirdly among the Christians there is much more against these writings theÌ„ there is for theÌ„ I wil briefely cite what I finde amoÌ„g some of the Ancient which may seeme to helpe theÌ„ n Lib. 3. Epist 9. ad 〈◊〉 Cyprian citeth somewhat out of Ecclesiasticus vnder the name of Salomon Truth but it is for the likenes of the sentences there to those in the Proverbes which also hath caused some other to take it for Salomons not looking exactly into the impossibility of the matter This therfore is but weake o Lib. 2. de principâ—…js OrigeÌ„ bringeth somewhat out of the story of the Machabees Wel but so he doth also in the same place ou of the Liber Pastoris which neverthelesse no wise Papist wil say to be Canonical Yet else-where he p Lib 10. c. 16 ad Rom. saith of that Hermes or Pastor that it seemed to him a very profitable booke and as he thinketh inspired from God No man therfore wil attribute much to Origens iudgement in that behalfe q Stromatâ—… Clemens Alexandrinus doth cite the story of Tobias But even so doth he meÌ„tioÌ„ the Gospel secunduÌ„ Aegypties but he nameth neither the one nor the other Canonical Yea but r De Tobia cap 1. Ambrose writiÌ„g vpoÌ„ Tobias nameth that a Prophetical book So he doth indeed that is of more force theÌ„ any yet meÌ„tioned But his iudgmeÌ„t in this is not to be warranted since s De bono mortis c. 11. else-where he citeth the fourth of Esdras as true Scripture And we are not ignorant that his skil was little or nothing in the Hebrew wherby he might best haue beene acquainted with the customes of the lewes In S. Austen I finde little concerning Tobias and Iudith onely in the enumeration s De doctr Christ. l 2 8 of the Canonical Scripture he citeth them once and there he hath the bookes of the Mâ—…chabees as also VVisedome and Ecclesiasticus which for a likely-hood to the bookes of Salomons are called as Salomons So t Serâ—… 131 de TeÌ„pore else-where according to the coâ—…on custome neere him he tearmeth Ecclesiasticus Salomons booke But deliberately he doth explicate that point where he saith u De civit Dei la 7 20. Custome hath obtained that Wisedome Ecclesiasticus should be said to be Salomons for some no small likenesse of the speech But the more learned doe not doubt that they are not his notwithstaÌ„ding the Church especially that of the West hath long agone received them into authority in the one of whom which is called the Wisdome of Salomon the passion of Christ is most openly prophecied It was written after the passion of Christ even in the daies of Caligula if Philo were the author of it TheÌ„ it is cleere by S. Austen that they were not Salomons workâ—… but yet he would haue theÌ„ to be Canonical And that he hath also in another place u Speculum Augustini The Church of our Saviour doth receive them yet the words of him immediately before are The Iewes doe reiect from the Canon the booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus TheÌ„ by the coÌ„fession of this renoumed maÌ„ the Iewes did repudiat theÌ„ Yea that he acknowledgeth els-where x De curo pro mort gerend c 15. The book of Ecclesiast is spokeÌ„ against out of the CanoÌ„ of the Hebrews because it is not in that And in his y Lib. 2 c. 20 RetractatioÌ„s The Iews doe not receive the booke of Wisedome into Canonicall authority Were it not then to be wished heere that S. AusteÌ„ had remeÌ„bred his own rule which is z De doctr Chr. l. 2. 8. that such bookes principally should bee esteemed Canonicall which are so accepted of al churches but of such as are in doubt that they are most to be approved whom most Churches do allow Then if the Iewish Church refused these and the Easterne Church wholy among the Christians great ones also in the Westerne provinces vpon whom he seemeth principally to rely S. Austen by his owne sentence is much oppâ—…gned and refuted And of these in the East West Church you shall heare anone 11 Touching the bookes of the Machabees as it is said before that S. Austen reckoned theÌ„ among the Canonical volumes so a De morib Cath Eccl cap. 23. elsewhere he calleth the secoÌ„d of them Scripture In his bookes b Lib. â—…8 36. Decivitate Dei he expoundeth it to be so among ChristiaÌ„s not in the lewish Synagogue Not the Iews but the Church doth account the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical by reason of the vehemeÌ„t woÌ„derful suffring of some Martyrs And yet the same father in another place speaketh muâ—…h more coldly faintly for theÌ„ c Contra secuÌ„â—… Gaudent Epist lib. 2. For the Scripture which is called the Machabees the Iews do not accouÌ„t as the Law the Prophets the Psalmes to whoÌ„ the Lord doth give testimony as to his witnesses saying It must needes bee that all thinges are fulfilled which are written concerning me in the Law in the Prophets in the Psalmes but it is received of the Church not vnprofitably if it soberly be readâ—…r beard This even by his owne extenuation carieth but smal comfort with it But
there is a worke vnder the name of S. Austen intituled d Lib 2 34 De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae where by the Authour the book of Machabees is secluded from the Canon NotwithstaÌ„ding we do not vrge thâ—…t to be his but take it for a counterfeit rather yeeld that S. Austen framing his iudgment to some others opinion in the Westerne Church did repute these also Canonicall Yet here that is to be remembred which briefly before I touched concerning S. Ambrose that this mistaking in this worthy Father grew by his want of knowledge in that tongue wherein the old Testa was originally writteÌ„ by which means he was not acquatÌ„ed with many things appertaining to the Iewish church vnto whoÌ„ since al Scripture before Christs time was coÌ„mitted if these had bin Scripture they also should haue bin coÌ„mended then they should haue bin written in the tongue which they vnderstood that is to say in the Hebrew not in the Greek which was a laÌ„guage of the GeÌ„tiles as e Aut l 30. 9 Iosephus testifieth the Iews did not accoÌ„modate theÌ„selues to the learning of any tongue but their own which is to be interpreted of the ordinary sort of theÌ„ But all these controversed writings are only in the Greeke and not in the Hebrew which is a maine argument against them and ruinateth the very foundation of them Now that S. AusteÌ„ knew nothing of the Hebrew he in his own f â—…pist 131. modesty most ingenuously confesseth as also in another place he acknowledgeth that he had but little skil in the Greeke I g Cont. liter Petilian DO nat lib. 〈◊〉 truely haue attained vnto very little of the Greeke tongue and almost nothing And this made the iudgment of S. Austen the more defectiue in that behalfe Now as this great Doctour might bee overtaken partly by his ignorance of the Hebrew and many circumstances belonging to the Iews partly by leaning to the opinion of some other neere about him in the Westerne Churches of Italy Afrike so it is a matter very probable that the h CoÌ„c cart 3. can 471 CouÌ„cel of Carthage induced by the same reasons and most of all by the authority of S. Austen mighte exorbitate in their Censure vvhen they put all these Apocriphal bookes among the writingâ—… Canonical For there assembled none but such Prelates as were about Carthage which standeth toward the West of Africa in comparison of the East Churches The same causes doubtlesse moved i Decret Innocâ—…n CoÌ„câ—…js Innocentius the Bishop of Rome and therefore of the Westerne Church to put all these books into the Canon Tobias excepted of whoÌ„ he saith nothing An errour once begon goeth plentifully forward is not stayed vpon the suddaine WheÌ„ce it was that k Gelas. Epist. in Concilijs Gelasius coÌ„ ming after InnoceÌ„tius did in this case treade the steps of his Predecessor wheÌ„ himselfe togither with seveÌ„ty Bishops doth define al these writings to be sacred Scripture NotwithstaÌ„ding he who wil looke the Decree of Gelasius as l Part 1 Dist. 15. 4 Gratian citeth it about this matter shal see that the iudgmeÌ„t of Gelasius coÌ„cerning the CanoÌ„ is very weake little to be regarded And in those decrees of his which are found amoÌ„g the CouÌ„cels the same wil appeere wheÌ„ he maketh meaner things theÌ„ these coÌ„troversed books to be of irrefragable authority For in the very next Decree to that which I formerly mentioned he saith thus touching an Epistle of Leo one of his Antecessors in the Roman see The text of the Epistle of Pope Leo if any maÌ„ shal dispute of eveÌ„ to one iote shal not revereâ—…ly receive it in all things let him be accursed This heate doth shew that Gelasius was not too too much advised in his determinations of this nature but followed the tract of those that weÌ„t before him without farther ventilating or disquisitioÌ„ And this is the most of that which by mine own reading I find in Antiquity making for the iustification of these Apocryphal bookes And some such shewes there be for the story of Susanna of Bel with the Dragon which also are not in the Hebrew therfore togither with the fragmeÌ„ts of the booke of Esther some other of equal sort are by vs held to be no Scripture Hee who would behould what farther may be saide for these things let him looke m De verbâ—… Dci lib. 1. Cardinall Bellarmine where he shal finde a many weake citatioÌ„s agreeing in substance with those whom before I haue named Now if we looke what is against them we shal easily discover testimony of greater ponderosity to overturne them then is any to support vphold them 12 VVhat the Iewes did or doe esteeme of them you haue heard before Onely take this with you that n 〈◊〉 l. c. 10. Bellarmine can say out of S. o â—…n Prolog gelâ—…at Hierome that all these bookes togither are reiected by the Hebrewes Now let vs see what witnes the Easterne Church giveth of them p Eccl. Hist. lib 4 2â—… Eusebius hath an Epistle of Melito sometimes Bishop of Sardis in Asia the lesser where Melito himselfe saith that of purpose he travelled to Hierusalem into Palestina to know what were the Canonical Scriptures of the Church before Christ and there he setteth downe all those bookes which wee admit none other This was very soone after the age wherin the Apostles lived It is heere to be marked concerning this holy man as also of al the rest whom I shall name that they never had in this businesse reference to ought but to the course of the Iewes accepting their iudgement for the bookes of the olde Testament to be that wherevnto Christians also should cleaue Not long after that time came Clemens Alexandrinus of whom q Lib. 6 11 Eusebius writing saith that hee cited the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus in his vvorkes vvhich bookes saith Eusebius all men do not receiue And he addeth as it may seeme to prevent least any man vpon his example should attribute much to those two that he cited also the Epistle of Barnabas of Clement By the iudgement then of Eusebius Wisedome Ecclesiasticus at the least are books coÌ„troversed Soone after came r Cap 19 OrigeÌ„ who lived at AlexaÌ„dria in Aegypt And he reckoneth vp the CanoÌ„ of the Iews coÌ„prised in two tweÌ„ty voluÌ„es accepting all that which we accept not naming the other saving the Machabees which he saith to be reiected of the Iews That worke of OrigeÌ„ wherin that was coÌ„tained is now lost yet in those which remain he saith that the book of Wisdome s De principijâ—… lib 4. 3â—… is not accouÌ„ted of authority with al. Athanatius after his time lived also at Alexandria he sheweth what was held for Canonical what was refused s In Synopsi There be Canonicall of the old Testament two
and twenty bookes equal in nuÌ„ber to the Hebrew letters For among the Hebrewes the elemeÌ„ts of the letters are so many But besides these there be yet of the same old TestameÌ„t other books not Canonical which are read only to the Catechumeus Heere is a most manifest distinction betweene the Canonical and the Apocryphall and a signification that these inferiour volumes were only read to such as were novices in the faith but they were not accounted authentical vnquestionable Next I ioyne Epiphanius who lived in Cyprus he t Haetes 8 rehearseth for Canonical Scriptures of the old Testament the Iewes bookes the other not admitted by them he expungeth for Apocryphal And in a u Haeres 76 second place reckoning vp al the divine writings he shutteth out these Apocryphal fellows only after al the volumes of the old new TestameÌ„t rehearsed he nameth also the Wisedoms of SalomoÌ„ of the sonne of Sirach He nameth theÌ„ I say but after al the right ones yet least any man should take advaÌ„tage of the mencioning of those two heare him else-where u De mensuris poÌ„deribus Among the Hebrews there are two and twenty bookes For thâ—…se two bookes written in verse The Wisedome of Salomon which is called Panaretus of all kinde of vertue and the Wisedome of Iesus the sonne of Syrach the nephew of that Iesus vvho wrote that Wisedome in Hebrew so that his nephew interpreting it did vvrite it in Greeke are profitable and commâ—…dious but are not put into the number of those vvhich are received How corruptly theÌ„ doth x De verbo Dei l. 1 14 Bellarmine deale who citeth Epiphanius as an allower of these two bookes and denieth that hee spake against them otherwise then according to the opinion iudgement of the Iewes But infinite such base shiftes are to bee found in that Cardinall In the meane time we see that thus Epiphanius who was very wel skilled in the Hebrew keepeth close both with the Iewish Canon and the iudgement of the Easterne Church 13 Gregory Nazianzen hath a y De veris libris Scriptur little treatise in verse of purpose made to shew what are the books of the old new TestameÌ„t inspired froÌ„ God He in the old reckoneth vp two twenty books after the Iewish fashioÌ„ so oft aboue meÌ„tioned no more There he putteth al these whoÌ„ we acknowledge vouchsafeth not so much as to name Tobias or Iudith or any one of those whoÌ„ we seclude And so doth he againe z De recta educatione ad Selencum To all these so famous learned men of the East Greeke Church wil I adde for the conclusion the Councel of Laodicea which in the last a Canon 59 Canon recapitulateth all the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament but hath not one of those whom the Romanists vvould gladly thrust vpon vs. Nowe is it not a greate sinne thinke you for vs to ioyne in iudgement vvith so many learned and holie men with all the good and religious Hebrews who were before the time of Christ withal the Eastern Church without impeachment for ought that I can truely find Are not we worthy to be reviled and revelled at as renters tearers and clippers of the sacred Bible I doe marvaile why we should be Heretikes for not admitting of these Apocryphals since so many Fathers and reverend Doctors of the Primitiue Church did the same that wee do and yet heretiks they are none Yea but the Romanists doe loue to be tried by themselues And great reason The Westerne Churches they will say haue ever beene of another minde Wel yet here is but one against two and then by S. Austens rule before named the matter should go on our side But what if we find in the Latin Church as much against it as for it Are not our popish people in a prety case for railing vpon vs as if we were manglers deâ—…uÌ„catours of the Bible Hilary was a Bishop of FraÌ„ce and b Prolog su per 〈◊〉 he saith that there bee two and twenty bookes of the olde scripture See his own opinion consonant with that of the Greekish and Iewish Church vnto which number saith hee some doe adde Tobias and Iudith and so make foure and twenty Marke that they be but some who do adde more and these doe adde but two so that the Machabees and the rest are vndoubtedly gone in his iudgement nay I may say in his minde these two also But if any man be in this cause to be heard it is Hierome whom Lodovicus Vives some-where did truely call miraculum orbis the miracle of the worlde Hee lived a good while at Rome and thought highly of that Church and therefore would not hastily break from any thing vvhich generally or vvith good ground was there received Hee travailed into Palestina and there spent much of his time and by longe conference vvith a Ievve and other his extreame labour attained to the exact knovveledge of the Hebrevve tongue and there-vpon as some thinke translated the vvhole Bible into Latin as others suppose reformed and castigated that version vvhich is called the Vulgar and is now only currant among the Papists Also hee made those learned Commentaries on the Prophets which labour may truly be said to be the glory and beauty of all his vvorkes vvhich yet otherwise are renoumed sufficiently Then if any man bee to be heard in this Argument it is this Hierome and that deservedly Hee then speaking of Iudith bestovveth this ierke on it c Epist 10 UUee doe reade in Iudith notvvithstanding of it please any man to receiue that booke But aftervvarde hee goeth more generally to vvorke and d Epist â—…06 sheweth which are the Canonicall bookes even those whome vvee holde for Canonicall and vvhich are Apocryphall even the very same that wee reckon for Apocryphall Neither hath hee yet done but continuing in the same iudgement he sheweth how and in what manner the Church readeth and accepteth those inferiour bookes e Epist 115. As therefore the Church indeed doth read the bookes of Iudith of Tobias and the Machabees but doth not receiue them among the Canonical scriptures so it may read also these two volumes that is Ecclesiasticus and the booke of Wisdome to the edification of the people not to confirme the authority of Ecclesiasticall doctrines What would he haue said thinke you if he had seene our Papists bring these bookes as the chiefe pillers of praier for the dead and intercession of Saints and other such like Apocryphal trumpery 14 And that there were more learned men of the Westerne Church in the same minde with Hierome wee appeale to that treatise on the Creede of the Apostles vvhich some suppose to haue beene written by Cyprian and for that cause it is found among his workes but more generally it is thought to be of Ruffiuus his doing who very well might speake for the evidency
of truth but is not to be imagined to say any thing in favour of Hierome with whom he had hote great f â—…nvect coÌ„tra Hieron controversies He there then enumerateth the volumes of Canonicall Scripture even in the same order as we do but disclaimeth Tobias Iudith their fellows then subioyneth this g â—…e symb Apostolor These are they whom the Fathers haue concluded within the Canon out of which they would haue the assertions of our faith to appeare The rest they would haue indeed to bee reade in the Churches yet not to bee produced to get from them the authoritie of faith And then These things haue wee said that thâ—…se vvho doe receiue the first elementes of faith may know from vvhat fountaines of the word of God their draughtes are to bee dravvne So that in these you see the sound substantial iudgment of the most learned in the West Church eveÌ„ in the most ancient daies of it this hath bin coÌ„tinued ever since vntil our time by meÌ„ of the greatest knowledge throughout all ages yea such as were lights in the Church of Rome it selfe Nay h Greg epi ad Leandr sup Iob 5 Gregory himselfe within 600. yeares after Christ accepted of Hieromes translatioÌ„ or Castigation vsing no other but sticking so close therevnto that as a learned man of i D Fulk in prefâ—… Rhem Testam 29. Greg in Evang Hom. 34. ours hath observed it being falsly in that copy DomuÌ„ evertit for domuÌ„ everrit he interpreted it after the erroneous putting And since that time in the Romane Churches that edition is â—…urrant where according to k In prolog Galeato Hieromes distinction there be no more to be found Canonical then those whom we so read I might adde the testimonies of l Prolog in lib Ios Tobiae Hugo of m In vltim â—…sth epist ad Clem y. Caretane after him both men of much learning both Cardinals of the See of Rome as also of the Ordinary Glosseâ—… who in the beginning of those bookes hath thus Here beginneth the booke of Tobias which is not of the CanoÌ„ Here beginneth the booke of Iudith which is not of the Canon and so of the rest Also of n De tradeÌ„ dis discipl 〈◊〉 Vives who secludeth Tobias Iudith some other In breefe I can here alleadge the witnes of many rare and worthy men even of the Popish writers and such as lived long before Luthers daies but I reserue them til some Romanist vrge me farther vnto theÌ„ But out of al this which hath bin said I conclude first that the Popes vassals in the CoÌ„veÌ„â—…cle of Trent were more then audacious incroching vpon God Almighty when they durst to vendicate that authority as to put into the Canon that which lieth open to so many iust exceptions and was repudiated by such so ancient and so many as well of their own as other And secondly that our Iesuits of late as Bellarmine CaÌ„pian our other more vnlearned Papistes as Bristow and the scribler of this Pamphlet with whom I haue to deale are very hard fore-headed when they exclaime vpon vs for doing that which they ought also to do and call vs heretikes for imitating the iudgement so mature and well grounded of such persons Churches But the pity of all pities is that their blinde and deafe disciples our country-men and brethren according to the flesh giue credit to such lies and accept that as the Gospell which when it iâ—… seaâ—…ed doth fly to ragges and fitters THE NINTH REASON Councels T. HILL THE Church of God hath ever beene accustomed when any heresie did spring vp therein to gather a Councell of Bishops Prelates and of other learned men in which the truth was approved the heresie condemned And whosoever were coÌ„demned by such Councels coÌ„firmed by the See Apostolike were ever deemed in very deed were heretikes and for such at length were taken of all men and in the end vanished away So were the Arrians condemned in the Nicene Councell the Macedonians in the Councell of Constantinople the Nestorians in the Ephesine the Eutychians in the Chalcedonian others in other Councels All which heretikes although they flourished for a time and drew manie people yea Emperours Kings States and Countreies after theÌ„ yet in time they came to nothing and the Councels which condemned them were vniversally embraced G. ABBOT THere are two things in the two first Periodes of this your Chapter which although not simplye in themselues yet proceeding â—…om you do deserue admiration For you who were wont to make such large propositioÌ„s as no Papist durst avouch filling your mouth pen with nothing els but All are growne in this Reason vnreasonably modest downe below a great many of your fellowes when first you allow other learned 〈◊〉 besides Bishops Prelates to be of your Councels and secondly you appoint these generall Assemblies not to be called by your Pope but it is inough that they bee confirmed by the See Apostolike But the later of these we ascribe to your good Maister Bristowes such like extenuation vvho hath your very wordes confirmed by the See Apostolike and from one of whose a Brist Motiâ—… 13â—… Motiues abbreviated you borrow the most of this your present Reason and the former we impute either vnto your ignoraunce who know not what your fellowes hold in this pointe or to the ticklenes of the matter it selfe wherin noÌ„e of you with the safety of Popery can define ought but it lyeth subiect to some exceptioÌ„ Some of your meÌ„ wil haue none to haue voice in CouÌ„cels but Bishops so b In enumeratione CocilioruÌ„ Possevinus saith A CouÌ„celis nothing else but a lawfull Congregation of Bishops And it is scant to be found in any of those whom you cite for Synodes that any are named but Bishops as the Nicene c In praesation Concili Nicenâ—… Councel consisted of three hundred eighteene Bishops the d In fine Concil Tridentin Tridentine if we wil take their owne account of two hundred and seventy Bishops vnlesse perhaps the Legates and Oratours of some Princes may bee numbred to be in the Councell who yet haue no voices to ratifie doctrine excepte they bee Bishoppes And yet this shoulde seeme secretly to go somewhat hard even in Campians mind who vseth first a generall word e Ration 4. the Senatours of the vvorld but aftervvard when he hath saide the choice of Bishops he addeth the piâ—…he of Divines Yea f Chronil 4. Genebrard himselfe magnifying the Councel of Laterane aboue all that ever were for number saith that it had in it for cheefe Bishoppe Innocentius the Pope then tvvo Patriarkes him of Constantinople and the other of Hierusalem Arch-bishops Greeke and Latin seventy Bishops 400. Abbots twelve Priours of Covents eight hundred which in all were Fathers 1285. Now whether â—…ese Priours had voices he doth
some Acts those of the greatest moment passed there as by name that concerning the 〈◊〉 Canonical Scripture the equalling of traditions Session 4â—… to the writteÌ„ word of God the allowing only of the Vulgar Latin edition for authentical For theÌ„ after that as appeareth by the calculatioÌ„ of the time there were in the k Sleid. l. 17 meeting besides the Cardinals which were the Popes Legats there and the Cardinal of Trent Pachecus the Spanyard foure Archbishops wherof the poore sterneling titulary Olaus Venantius before named were two Bishops 33. wherof two were French fiue Spaniards one of IllyricuÌ„ the rest were ItaliaÌ„s Doctors of Divinity which were Monks 35. other which were not Monks 12. and all these almost Spanyards This was your late famous CouÌ„cell of Trent so much craked of by all you Papists who intend to make that seeme a mountaine which was meaner then a mole hill that so you may feed fat your simple and credulous followers with bigge words vttered in generall and spoken as in the clowds Now if we should sift also what manner of men what noble Clerkes many of those were who met there the grace of this bragge would be so much the more stained Calvin lived in that time saw what excellent rare lads they were which went voluntarily out of France thither for as before you heard the kings sent none I will cite his words as l In praefat ad Histâ—…r Huâ—…it ex praef Calâ—… cont Concil â—…riden Cochleus setteth them down Let the Patrones of Councels answere me bona fide if a maÌ„ should reckon them all in order vnto them what man of them would they not coÌ„temne Nay when those Reverend Fathers doe looke one vpon another it caÌ„not be but they are ashâ—…med of themselues For they are knowne to theÌ„selues what other mens iudgement is of them they are not ignoraunt Therfore if you will take away the name of a Councell the whole Papacie must coÌ„fesse that al the Bishops which were there was nothing but raffe But I thinke good to leaue to other naâ—…ions their ornaments vntouched I will only intreate my countreymen of France that they wil valew at a iust price that portion which they coÌ„ferred Amongst the principall meÌ„bers of the Church they do reckon the kingdom of France FroÌ„ thence there were two Bishops present the one of Neneâ—…um the other of Clarement Both alike vnlearned and stupidious The Archbishop Aquensis I doe scant nuÌ„ber amongst French men And he of Agatha as curious men vse to doe was there but as an idle looker â—…n I beseech you French men who of you caÌ„ perswade himselfe that these things doe come froÌ„ the holy Ghost which even an innumerable multitude of such men shall babble out For these imperfections and blemishes every way we vpoÌ„ sound coÌ„sideration thinke the Trent assembly to be worthy of no better titles then the m co chl in Histor. Hus sit lib 1 Hussites gaue the Councell at Rome which was called by Iohn the 23. or rather 24. as we account him For when the Pope had in that meeting condemned Wiclef the Hussites laughed at him and his sily meane Conventicle saying that it was done not in Generali Conâ—…ilio in a Generall Councell but in Angulari Concilio in a Councell in a corner And for Pralati de regnis orbis the Prelates of the kingdomes of the world they said there were pauci monachi Simoniaci vrbis a few monks simoniacal persons of that city Rome This is most true of your Trentish concurrence Vnto all these maimes in it we might adde that for matters importaÌ„t nothing was so coÌ„sulted there as that is was to be coÌ„cluded among the fathers there assembled but froÌ„ Rome was sent stil what should be determined so that not vnworthyly the scoffe was vsed that the holy Ghost which should haue directed at Trent was sent froÌ„ Rome in a box This be said touching the forme circuÌ„stances of that assembly so unmoderatly vndeservedly magnified to the which I might ioine many other Nullities set down by n In exâ—…mine concil Trident. GeÌ„tilleÌ„tus a French maÌ„ for the matter as it coÌ„cerneth Popish divinity it hath bin prety well coursed by Calvin CheÌ„nicius So that being rightly balanced every way there is little or nothing of authority to befound in it 8 Your hope that the Councell of Trent will by some grace arise to a higher degree is borrowed from o Ration 4 Campian who â—…ide that while CheÌ„nicius vnlesse he did take heed should be buried with Arius the Tridentine Synode the elder it grâ—…w so much the more dayly and so much the more continually it should flourish Well the Prophet himselfe first came to naught and the Conciliable now more then tvventy yeares after is in the same case as before or worse And it is to be hoped that higher it shall not rise vnlesse it bee vvith the children of vnbeliefe As for vs that proâ—…esse against it wee doubt not but by the protection of almightye God our religion shall stande vnto the daye of indgeâ—…nte maugre all the treasons and conspiracies vvhich the Romish whore can haue against it It is her p Apoc. 18. 2 Babylon that for a great part is fallen already and must fall a faire deale more Those whom you call new fellowes are able to proue every part of their profession to be more ancient then your vn-Catholike superstition Your reasons why we cannot continue do halt on every foote We cannot call a Councell Ergo we cannot continue A simple Antecedent and a childish Consequent And why I pray you may not the Princes governors of the Reformed kingdomes and States of Europe as well assemble a Councell as the Popish Princes may Yea and so much the better a Synode because disputation and conference may be free as being out of the worde of God and not restained within the limits of your Popes pleasure Then how can you proue that it is of the necessity of religion that Generall Councels should be called May not Provinciall assemblies serue the turne for setling severall lands and countries as they haue done before It is de benè esse of religion that there should be great meetings if there be cause they be lawfully called and orderly proceeded in but it is not de esse Else if there had arose no q Act. 15. 6. variance in the time of the Apostles which was the cause of their meeting their religion might haue sunke Your next proposition is as weake that we can decide nothinge without a head We haue a head and that is Christ and his Spirit is his Vice-gerent to supply his place and this Spirit will not be wanting to those who rightly earnestly pray for him And we haue also asquire to direct all by that is the written word we remember Christs speech r Ioh. 〈◊〉 39. search the
others his consorts to haue done either vsurpingly or vniustly So that very true it is that the Greekes do not allow the eighth Synode not the other which followed and were held in the west by the meanes of the Romane Bishop with out their indifferent concurrence 11 What you cite in the name of the Lutheranes out of the Magdeburgenses is acknowledged and consented vnto by vs. In the eighth 〈◊〉 cent 8. 9 Century they among other Provincial meetings speaking of the confluence at Nice which is commonly called the second Nicene Councell in the setting downe thereof doe not dissemble their opinioÌ„ that is their dislike vnto it And what Christian man is there rightly advised which hath read the o Exod. 20. second commandement concerning Images who doth not both dislike and detest that Conventicle for decreeing both erection and adoration of Images in Churches In the like sorte in the ninth p cent 9. 9 Century the compilers of it do shew themselues not wel affected to that which you call the eighth Generall Councell they haue no smal reason for it For besides the allegations of the Greekes against it which even now is specified and besides the matter of it which I will not stand to discusse there was a foule attempt at the very entrance into it The Pope of Rome had so farre prevailed that he had there his Agents who stoode at the Councell dore with writing tables profering them to all who would enter there and requiring that they first should subscribe to the Iutisdiction and transcendent authority of the Romane Bishop To which Such as yeelded did enter in and those who refused were not only repelled but it was done with much reproach and disgrace vnto them A fit course to make a free Synode And of this sort either directly or indirectly haue all the Popes Councels bin You tel vs that some Eutychians be in Asia and Nestorians be in the East whereas indeed Asia is in the East but countrey in particular you name vs none nor authour you cite vs none I haue heard indeed of Marchantes who haue travailed in those parts that at this day there is at Aleppo a CoÌ„gregation of Nestorians and likely it is that in the country therabout or farther of in Armenia there may be more Neither is it vnlikely but that some also may embrace the old heresie of Eutyches in those parts In as much then as Nestorius was condemned in the third General q Socn 7. 33 Evagr. 1. 4. CouÌ„cel at Ephesus it is probable that his folowers wil refuse that Synode consequently all coÌ„ming after ratifying that so they must only accept the 2. formost And since Eutyches Dioscorus were coÌ„deÌ„ned in the 4. r Evagr. 2. 4 CouÌ„cel at ChalcedoÌ„ it is most credible that if there now be any who haue coÌ„tinued or revived their daÌ„nable heresies they wil not approue that of Chalcedon but only such as went before it What such in Polonia Hungary do as speake against the Trinity therefore are rather to be called Antitrinitarij then Trinitaries â—…it mattereth not to vs. We disclaime theÌ„ we abominate theÌ„ we execrate theÌ„ as we do the Eutychians Nestorians al other heretiks Neither do we ioine with the Greekes in all things as you know although some of their doctrins we prefer before those of the Church of Rome And therefore most ridiculously vnfittingly do you close vp your Chapter Behold the liberty of your Gospell when here are none named the Lutheranes excepted vvith whom we haue ought to do And for our liberty in the Gospel of reiecting such vnwarraÌ„table stuffe as Image-worshipping TraÌ„substantiatioÌ„ the like maintained by your heretical meetings we learne it of s Gal â—…8 9 S. Paul who hath taught vs not only that if a maÌ„ but if an Angel froÌ„ heaveÌ„ bring any other doctrin theÌ„ is in gods word let him be accursed And we being sufficieÌ„tly informed by Gods word that we are not to be inthralled to the beggerly s Colos 2 20 traditioÌ„s of meÌ„ do purpose by the assistance of the Lords heavenly grace to t Galat. 5 1. stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made vs free VVee accept therefore of this Christian freedome but Libertine-like licentiousnesse vvee leaue vnto you And so for a litle while I dismisse you with this remembrance that what you say of the CouÌ„cels accepted or excepted against by the Greeks the Lutheranes the Eutychians the Nestorians and the Trinitarians both for the matter and quotations you borrow froÌ„ Cardinall a Coacil l. 1. cap 5. Bellarmine 12 TO notifie then the iudgement of our Church concerning CouÌ„cels certainly we do hold them being rightly lawfully assembled proceeded in to be great blessings froÌ„ God notable meanes to remoue schismes to extirpate heresies Thus we are taught by the example of the Apostles 〈◊〉 coÌ„gregating 〈◊〉 Act. 15 6. theÌ„selues togither and by the fruite which some such meetings had in the Primitiue Church Yea we do like of that sentence of blessed Constantine after the Nicene Councel who 〈◊〉 said that the decree of keeping Easter by al vniformly and not 〈◊〉 Euseb de vita Const lib 3 18 by some after the fashion of the Iews was to be imbraced at the gift of God as if it had bin a coÌ„mandement sent downe from heaven For saith hee whatsoever is decreed in the holy Councels of Bishops that all ought to be attributed to the will of God Marke hee saith not generally in the Councels of Bishops nor in the CouÌ„cels of holy Bishops for even such may erre but in the holy Councels of Bishops that is in such as wherin men do holily conforme theÌ„selues vnto the Scripture of truth go no farther theÌ„ God is their guid Such as come without humane preiudice are zealous of truth earnest in praier for it diligent in searching it out huÌ„ble to yeeld conforme theÌ„selues to it Such were the first general CouÌ„cels where men did look to the load-star of the word therefore they are accepted of vs. Yet so that we do not esteeme theÌ„ as the sacred Oracles of God equivalent to the Scripture or of equal authentical force but as the definitions of Godly men out of the word so that they giue no vertue to the old new Test. but take al that which CouÌ„cels haue froÌ„ them therfore as takers and not givers are inferior to them We do therefore hold that speech of Gregory to be hyperbolically vttered not litterally iustifiable I x Greg li 1 Epistol 24. confesse that I doe receiue reverence as the foure books of the Gospell so the foure Councels And again And y Li 2 Epist 49. wee doe so receiue the foure Synodes of the holye Universall Church as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell If it be flatly and directly taken it is a hard and
in his Cōmētaries on the Prophets you cānot deny so it overturneth your reasō that those who were neerest to the Apostles should do best by taking it fresh frō thē so frō hand to hand For some of the later did not only equall but farre exceed those who were their fore-runners as Chrysostome in the Greeke Church may shewe Yet vnderstand all this that we haue no matter of moment in any point of religion nor scant any interpretation of Scripture but wee vndertake to advouch it from some or more of the Fathers in one place or other of their writings where they hādle those things It is Popery which lately crept in that hath with the Glosses therof declined both the sēce of the holy Ghost of the old Fathers while the pleasures of Popes the quiddities of the barbarous schoolmē have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity brought it to curious speculatiōs vnprofitable questiōs Whē you put it to trial you shal see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers for the proofe of our religion the exposition of texts nor so altogither vnstudied and illiterate as you in your weake vnderstanding imagine vs. Touching the imputation of profanenesse you shall heare of me heereafter Luther in capt Bap. Causaeus vbi supra Centuriat centur 2 c 10. Calvin instit cap 13 num 29. Centur 2 cop 5 Causaeus dialog 8 11 6 Bez◅ in Act Apost cap 23. T. HILL BUT indeede it is no marveile though the Protestants do contēne yea revile the Fathers in saying they taught thinges most like to dreames they were doating olde men they had foule blemishes and tolde trifling tales they had weedes and dregges blaspemies and monsters they were childish dull and destitute of God and babbled they knew not what they were bewitched of the Devil as damned as the Devill blasphemers naughtie wicked G. ABBOT 5 HEere you bring a prety beade-roll of such fragmēts as you have scraped to gither out of some of our side who as you thinke haue perstringed diverse of the Fathers or at least by your perverting or distorting of their wordes you would haue the world to thinke that they haue shrewdly galled thē Wherin you are much to be cōmēded that to make the better shew both in your text margēt you bring vs the same things quotatiōs againe out of Causaeus Luther which in this very Chap. but one leafe before you delivered vnto us This is no rare matter in your writers for your n In Matth. 16 18 Rhemists play a pretier part then that when meaning to spare for no cost to prooue Peter to be such a rocke ason whō the Church is principall built they thwacke authority vppon authority to as good purpose as they can And therfore they haue in the margēt S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis and in the text S. Ambrose Serm. 68. which are both but one Sermō put in the workes of both those Fathers but in truth belonging to neither of thē Which must needs shew that Papists in their greatest matters doe either proceede idly or else of purpose they do bodge with their folowers citīg one for two as if a man should saye that in Pompeyes time o Luc lib 3◅ Plut. in Cesar Iulius broke vp the treasury at Rome and tooke out much mony and one Caesar about the same time broke open the same treasury therevpon should conclude that therfore the Treasury was twise forcibly entred into when lulius Caesar was al but one man What Luther spake was not against a Father but a counterfeit not against Dionysius Areopagita but against some meane fellowe shrowding himselfe vnder his name In K. Henry the 7. time a man might wel haue taunted p Holinshed in Henri 7. Perkin Warbeck yet not haue offended against the roial bloud in the children of K. Edwarde the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus who is to be imagined not to say ought against true Dionysius but against that doater who vsurpeth that name Now howe shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors whē by distinguishing this false one frō those who be right they do coūtenāce the true as much as they discoūtenāce the fained He who saith that false mony is but brasse or copper doth not speak evil of the kings lawful wartantable coine Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses is taken out of the second q Cap. 10. Century where being ex instituto to giue their censure on the writers of that age they yeeld vnto thē al their due cōmendation of zeale in Gods cause of diligēce in preaching writing of fortitude in oppugning heresies of enduring martyrdome They shew also to what points of religiō they do speake taking on thē to shew what is amisse in divers of thē they vse these words As that the Epistles of Ignatius haue in thē some things which do seeme to incline to deformed blemishes You might haue marked that before that speech they haue doubted of the credit authority of some of those Epistles whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Papias they say there was naevus a blemish also that Clemens Alexandrinus Athenagoras had their blemishes And so of Iustinus Martyr What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes the truth being so in such sort as no Papist can excuse it For that I may say nothing of divers things foūd in thē which with you cā be no lesse thē disputable but with vs are reputed no sound doctrine neither of some other plaine errours it is apparant that divers of thē as Papias Iustinus Martyr did hold the Millinary heresie for the same are taxed by the Century writers That which you mētiō of trofling tales if you apply it to thē is worthy to be laughed at for they haue no word of anie such matter in all that Chapter vnlesse you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas of whō they say that they passe oversome things reported by r Lib 10 Vincentius inspeculo because they seeme to be fables And what doth this detract frō the Fathers among whō I trust you put not Vincentius Phocas did vvrite nothing for ought that wee finde And it is not impossible that such a Legendary felow as Vincentius is may tel a tale of S. Hierom S. Ambros or S. Austē yet the reputatiō of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse Of Ireneus the Magdeburgenses say most mildly that he hath certaine inconvenient opinions as stubble they cite this for one which I beleeue no sober Papist will hastily mainetaine that Christ was baptized at thirty yeares of age preached at fortye and vvas crucified at fiftye And that hee helde the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries 6 The secōd place which you cite out of the