Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	church_n	pope_n	scripture_n	8,393	5	6.5802	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20949	The Iesuites shifts, and euasions; or, his deportment in controuersies of religion. Or, A treatise, wherein the causes are examined why Mr. Arnoux the Iesuite, refuseth to answere to seauenteene questions propounded by the ministers of the church of Paris Wherein also the treatise of fiue euasions which he hath added to the examination of our confession, is likewise examined and answered: by Peter Du Moulin.; Fuites et évasions du Sieur Arnoux. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.	1624 (1624)	STC 7328; ESTC S111074	27,667	44

of God either in this life or in purgatorie 10 Where God forbiddeth Priests and Monkes to marry 11 In what place of the Scripture we are commanded to adore the reliques of Saints 12 In what place of the Scripture there is any thing said of the place of Limbus for little Children 13 In what place of the Scripture it is said that the Church of Rome is the Soueraigne Iudge of doubts in faith and that she cannot erre 14 In what place of the Scripture the Virgin Mary is called Queene of Heauen 15 In what place of the Scripture God forbiddeth the people to reade the holy Scriptures without speciall permission 16 In what place of the Scripture power is giuen to the Pope to gather into the treasury of the Church the super-aboundant satisfactions of Saints and of Monkes and to conuert them into payment for others distributing them by Indulgences 17 Lastly where and when hath God giuen power to the Pope to depose Kings to draw soules out of Purgatorie and to giue pardons for seauen or eight hundred thousand yeares Vpon these seauenteene poynts which make the Body of Popery and wherein the abuse and tyranny thereof consisteth we aske Master Arnoux whether he will produce any places of holy Scripture to proue them and wee will content our selues with one place onely for euery seuerall poynt Our meaning is not to restraine him to finde these things in the Scripture word by word it shall suffice vs if he can finde them there in substance or that they can be deduced by good consequence For we seeke no delayes nor are not tyed to the number of syllables so the thing be proued in the word of God Now we must see what answere Mr. Arnoux maketh to these questions and how he proueth his Religion by the Word of God CHAP. II. Mr. Arnoux answere to these Questions THe Aduersarie maketh answere in these words 1. 100. page of Mr. Arnoux Booke First he saith it belongeth not vnto them to aske me the reason of my beleefe because I am in possession no man hath giuen them commission to pull the title of the inheritance which I hold out of my hands I answere that it is true that we haue no power to make him speake nor to binde him to giue vs an answere but the commandement of God bindeth him thereunto in the first Epistle of S. Peter 3.15 Be ready alwayes to giue an answere to euery man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekenesse and feare Iesus Christ made answere touching his doctrine to those that came vnto him although they were his enemles and had no power ouer him We haue answered Mr. Arnoux to all whatsoeuer he demanded of vs and obiected against vs although he hath no power ouer vs neither did shew vs his commission He hath bound himselfe to answere vs because he prouoked vs to speake For that asking vs a reason of our religion he might make his account that we would aske him a reason of his religion not in manner of reuenge but to let the truth be knowne and to shew that wee are better grounded in Religion then he is Whereas he saith that he is in possession of an inheritance and that we haue no commission to take it from him If by that inheritance he vnderstandeth earthly possessions and riches we enuie him not and wish that he had ten times as much more so he would become a defender of the truth But if by that inheritance hee vnderstandeth the possession of the true doctrine it is to presuppose that which is in question We goe not about to take a thing from the Church of Rome which she hath partly lost There needs no commission to aske a man what he beleeueth or the reason of his beleefe Charitie towards all men and a desire to lend our helping hand to him that is fallen and the zeale that we ought to beare to the defence of Gods cause sufficiently bindeth vs to speake and to propound the doctrine of saluation to those that require it It is to no purpose to say it is already long time since I haue bin in possession of this doctrine For Pagans Iewes and Turkes may say as much whose religions are ancienter then Papistry We dispute not by numbers or yeeres but by proofes The Church is in a Country where there is a written Law and not in a Country where custome onely ruleth There is no prescription against the heauenly truth which alwayes is most ancient for that vntruth or lying is but a corruption of the truth An ancient opinion once was new and if time may authorize a doctrine tell me how many yeeres at the least me must haue to giue authoritie thereunto Then we must proceed to the ground and to the institution contained in the Word of God And without speaking of the Word of God yet it will be found that the most part of the errors of the Church of Rome are very new As the deposing of Kings by the Pope the Communion vnder one kinde The forbidding to reade the holy Scriptures c. 2 Mr. Arnoux addeth and saith Their request should be more tollerable if they made it before some Iudge that had authoritie to end our difference If this excuse made by the Iesuite were allowable before he sets vpon vs he ought to finde out a Iudge that could set vs at an agreement But that notwithstanding we haue not spared to answere him because that although at this day there is no man to be found that is fit to be a Iudge of Controuersies with infallible certainty and soueraigne authority yet euery particular man ought to haue iudgement with discretion to discerne which of vs best proueth and iustifieth his sayings by the Word of God Then that should bee no hinderance vnto him to answere vs. 3 The third excuse that he addeth is no better then the former which is seeing saith he that they haue bound themselues to re-establish the Church that is fallen and that I offer my selfe vnto them to be drawne out of the ruines wherewith as they thinke I am inclosed It belongs to them to lend me their hand to shew me those notable places and to produce the Scriptures I answere that it is false that we haue taken vpon vs to reforme the Church and that wee haue bound our selues thereunto It is sufficient for vs to reforme our selues They call our Churches reformed and not reformers And they are called reformed because they are Christian Churches purged from Papistrie It is true that as euery true Christian is moued with compassion towards those that erre we could gladly wish that our aduersaries eyes were opened and that we could take the vaile of ignorance from before them But yet we take not on vs the title of reformers I am perswaded that our aduersaries which beleeue that they haue the truth on their sides would be glad if they could doe the like for vs

rules not thinking thereon being insensibly thrust into them by the force of reason Whosoeuer will haue no consequences produced abolisheth all common sense and all vse of reason which onely consisteth therein The rules of Lodgique are no Articles of faith but instruments to mannage all knowledge by order and certainty and by consequence also matters of Diuinitie CHAP. VI. The third Euasion THe third Euasion which Master Arnoux saith we vse is that we serue our turnes with the circle in this that we proue those things to be Scripture by our particular spirit and proue that particular spirit by the Scripture Which is false and slanderous We leaue that particular spirit to mad men none of vs makes our selues Iudges of the Scriptures That is the Popes and his Prelates property who being assembled boast that they pronounce Iudgement touching points of faith and beleeue they cannot erre And our Aduersaries say that euery particular person of the Church of Rome doth certainly discerne the true Church which spirit or particular iudgement is meere blindnesse seeing that the poore people haue no other proofe to know that the Church of Rome is the true Church then onely the witnesse that the same Church giueth of itselfe Touching the circle if any serue their turnes therewith it is our aduersaries for they ground the authoritie of the Scripture vpon the testimony of the Church and yet ground the authoritie of the Church vpon testimonies of the Scripture as one that hauing placed the walles of a house vpon the foundation afterward should place the foundation vpon the walles When we aske them how they know that wee must beleeue the bookes of the new Testament They answere and say because the Church saith it and ordaines it to be so and when we say that how know you that wee must beleeue the Church because say they that the bookes of the New Testament say so and ordaine it to be so for there it is written Tell it vnto the Church c. Certainely as often as they alledge the Scriptures to ground and authorize their Church they ouerthrow that which they will haue men to beleeue which is that the authority of the Scripture is grounded vpon the authority of the Church And thereby are tyed to rowle the circle as Diogenes is to his tub and ouerturne their owne wits by this circulation But when we aske one of them and say how know you that your Church teacheth the true Doctrine or how know you that it is conformable to the ancient Church There they are at a stay and the circle rowles no more and so they are dumbe by necessity For how shall they know the true Doctrine seeing the rule of the true Doctrine which is the holy Scripture is hidden from them And how should they know whether their Church is conformable to the ancient Church seeing it is not knowne but by an infinite number of Greeke and Latine Bookes which the people vnderstand not Then the people must know that the Church of Rome teacheth the true Doctrine onely because those that teach it say so which is to belieue at hazard and to haue a humane Religion grounded vpon coniectures without the Word of God and to allow a man to be a witnesse and a Iudge in his owne cause Therefore Master Arnoux giueth markes to know the true Church without speaking of the holy Scriptures Pag. 119. which are all false First The consent of the people But there are a greater number of the people that disagree with the Church of Rome than those that agree therewith And Iesus Christ saith that broad is the way that leadeth to destruction Math. 7.13.14 and many there be which goe in thereat because straite is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth vnto life and few there be that finde it Then he addeth the testimony of Martyrs a false marke for there shall neuer be any Martyrs found that died for calling vpon Saints or for Transubstantiation or for Purgatory They suffered death for the doctrine of the Gospell for the which our poore Churches haue suffered so many martyrdomes by meanes of the Church of Rome which suffereth no more but maketh martyrs suffer For a third marke he placeth the authority of the Fathers But the Fathers are contrary to the Doctrine of the Romish Church the people cannot looke into them And Master Arnoux speaketh by heare-say for in his Booke he alledgeth but foure or fiue places out of the Fathers which are not found to be false and corrupted For a fourth marke hee puts the eminence of the Doctrine I thinke that by the eminence hee vnderstandeth the excellency which consisteth in purity and conformity to the Word of God Without proofe to say that the Church of Rome hath the purity of Doctrine it is without proofe to pre-suppose that which is in question To the contrary we haue proued against Master Arnoux that Poperie is a heape of errours and a corruption of Christianitie And how should the people know that purity of Doctrine seeing they hide the rule of purity which is the holy Scriptures from them For the last marke hee se●teth succession neuer interrupted It he vnderstandeth a succession of doctrine wee deny it if he vnderstandeth a succession of chaires without Doctrine that succession is nothing Many other Churches also which condemne the Church of Rome haue their succession and that ancienter than the Romane And schismes haue often broken the succession of the Romish Bishopricke And how can the people know any thing touching this succession which cannot be learned but by reading of infinite Histories and Greeke and Latine Authors that haue written for the space of one thousand sixe hundred yeares CHAP. VII The fourth Euasion THe aduersary noteth another Euasion wherewith wee serue our turnes as he saith which is to produce diuers places of Scripture one with another whereof the one serueth to interpret the other For example he saith that wee expound these words This is my body by this place I am the Vine wherein hee slandereth vs. We know well that these words I am the Vine are not the exposition of these words This is my body Wee note not those places I am the Vine I am the dore This cup is the Couenant The rocke was Christ to interpret these words This is my body but to shew that whosoeuer will alwaies take the words of the holy Scripture literally and leaue these interpretations whereby the Scripture expresseth it selfe should often fall into great absurdities and to shew that ordinarily the Scripture nameth the signes and Sacraments by the names of that which they represent CHAP. VIII The fift Euasion THe fift Euasion which Master Arnoux imputeth vnto vs is a Chaos of confused calumniations He saith that we attribute things to the Church of Rome which shee beleeueth not That we charge the Popes with injuries That wee reiect the originall Text of the Scripture that is the Hebrew and the Greeke

and yet not ascribe the title of Reformators vnto themselues And although we should call our selues reformers is it not Mr. Arnoux dutie to shew vs that there is nothing to be reformed in the Church of Rome by prouing his beleefe by the Word of God thereby to withdraw vs from this vnprofitable labour and to hinder vs from applying any more plasters where there is no wound Then that likewise should not hinder him from answering vnto vs. 4 That which followeth is no better vntill saith he that they haue confuted my Paper of confrontation against the which they haue written it were a kind of folly in mee to grant them such a disloyall and friuolous digression For answere hereunto I say that we haue in such manner confuted his confrontations that they are become ridiculous His accusations did not merit the paines were tooke therein but we had a respect to the dignitie of the persons in whose presence he pronounced them And when any man moueth vs to render a reason of our beleefe it is no digression to cause him to yeeld a reason of his owne beleefe For a man alwayes to aske questions and neuer to make answere to any thing that another askes him besides the vniust vsurpation it is a confession of his owne Ignorance For he that askes desireth to be instructed and hee that will not answere silently confesseth that he is not able to giue instruction And if when we make these questions vnto him we should vse a digression yet seeing that our people are not seperated from the Church of Rome and because we cannot satisfie their demaunds by the Word of God it is Mr. Arnoux part to supply their want therein and to giue them instruction Seeing that if his cause be good he shall haue lesse paines to produce a place out of the Scripture touching euery one of our 17. demaunds then to seeke for so many shifts He takes more paines to shew the reasons why he answereth not then he should haue had to answere vs. 5 The fift reason is excellent When saith he they shall plainly and freely confesse that they can no more brag and boast of the Word of God and that their confession is wholly abolished and that it is no more to be spoken of Then I will make no difficultie to instruct them in my beleefe and it shall not be to the end to make them account thereof but to winne them to God He will haue me to leaue my owne Religion before he instructs me in his beleefe but in the meane time what Religion shall I hold while I attend his instruction This is excellent counsell to wish me to leaue my Religion without taking another in a certaine time after and that I should renounce my confession of the faith before I know whether he that induceth me to doe it hath a good religion And if after I haue left my Religion without taking another I come to Mr. Arnoux to learne his faith of him and that therein hee doth not content me shall I remaine without Religion or shall I take that againe which I left That is as much as if a man should leaue his owne Religion not knowing wherefore For I cannot know that my Religion is false vnlesse I know that the contrary Religion is true This Doctor hath learned all this from Father Gontri that published diuers small Treaties wherein are found these slender shifts and childish conceipts to learne men to exempt themselues from answering alwayes to aske questions and to bind vs to proue our allegations in as many words and syllables out of the holy Scripture 6 Lastly after so many ouerthwartings Truth giueth Mr. Arnoux a blow and draweth this confession from him Such questions saith hee cannot be made by those that know well that we neuer promised as they haue done neither yet protested in any of our Articles that we ought not to beleeue any thing but that which is formerly set downe in the Scripture and in expresse termes to the contrary wee hold traditions which they reproue and reiect He should haue said so at the first without seeking so many ouerthwartings and delayes Then he confesseth that he cannot answer our questions by the Scripture and that those points whereof we desire a proofe are not proued by the Word of God contained in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles but by tradition and by the vnwritten Word That is to say that these doctrines are neither in the Law of God nor in the Gospell for in the holy Scriptures the Law of God is whole and the Gospell whole and not halfe vnlesse the title be false And yet these 17. points are the principall points of the Romish Religion and which are held to be necessary for saluation which are the causes of our separation Then be it knowne to all the Realme of France that Mr. Arnoux being at this day seated in so eminent a place after hee hath defied vs with so solemne a defiance in the presence of his Maiestie and of the greatest persons of this Realme hath bled at the nose confesseth his own weaknesse and acknowledgeth that his Religion is not grounded vpon the Word of God contained in the holy Scriptures but vpon an vnwritten Word and vpon Traditions which haue no other rule nor certainty then the authority of those that propound them and who by that tradition haue heaped vp infinite riches and builded an Empire vpon earth While the holy Scriptures which is able to make vs wise to saluation is hidden and withdrawne from the peoples sight And that we on the contrary haue from point to point satisfied and answered to all his questions and obiections Blessed bee the Name of God that makes truth to triumph and drawes our aduersaries condemnation out of their owne mouthes Then with good reason he addeth these words saying they did well to conceiue that I would neuer vndertake an impertinent thing and that also which hee saith that wee would haue him lose dayes and nights and spoile his brest and his stomacke with so much writing and abandon his charge and then stay a long time for an answere and striking after one manner he should lose his blowes It is not impertinent to defend his cause by the word of God that paines will neither hurt nor spoile his brest nor stomacke For it is so hard a matter to produce a place out of the Scriptures for euery one of these 17. points and if not formall at the least such as haue some appearance thereof Touching the places of the Scripture alleadged by Pope Boniface the 8. and by the last Counsell of Lateran in so prodigious and prophane a sense Mr. Arnoux Arnoux p. 112. dares not maintaine such cotations of the Scripture nor yet reiect them least hee should condemne the Popes and their Counsels but findes a way betweene both saying That those proofes are not produced in the literall sense but in an accommodated and