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A41591 An amicable accommodation of the difference between the representer and the answerer in return to his last reply against the papist protesting against Protestant popery. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1686 (1686) Wing G1325A; ESTC R201691 19,896 44

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one thing and now of late 't is become another and if right then I wonder how it can be right now Thus you see their Church alter and change according to the Complexion of the Times And not only in these things but in a thousand others nay in the very Articles of their Belief The Apostles Creed had never more than Twelve Articles and the assenting to these were enough to make a Christian but to make a Church of England Christian at first 't was requir'd to Subscribe to Forty two Articles and then a little after something was bated and 't was enough to subscribe to Thirty nine and in these there was so much chopping and changing both in Words Expressions and Sentences that even the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition never had more before it came to perfection These are the Marks my Dearest ones of that Congregation to which you are so earnestly invited to joyn but let those joyn with her that can those that can find a way to dispense with all their Sense and Reason and admit of Prophanation and Superstition and Idolatry for the Word of God But for us We have the Scripture and our Reason for our Guides and we need no better and we have no surer way of avoiding the Teeth of the Dragon than to keep out of the reach of his Tail If a Zealous Brother I say should in this manner paint out the Church of England to his Flock and endeavour to imprint in their Minds an Idea thus Foul and Monstrous of her teaching and maintaining abominable Superstitions and Idolatries I would fain know of the Answerer Whether this would be Representing or Misrepresenting the Church of England whether 't would be a shewing her as she is or as she is not I know according to his Principles the Charges being not false as to matter of Fact and none being urg'd without some Reason this Character ought not to be Entitled The Church of England Misrepresented And yet methinks I cannot fancy 't will be thought like her But however it be I am resolv'd to compound and not quarrel upon this score If he will not have this to be Misrepresenting in its strict and proper sense I am ready to allow that the word Misrepresented as it stands in the Title of my Book is not to be taken in its strict and proper sense as it signifies Calumniating by Perjury only and Lies such as was the Story of the Pilgrims Screw'd Guns and Black Bills for the hanging of the Jesuits and that of Stifling Sir Edm. Godfrey with a Pillow in the upper Court of Somerset-House and Strangling him in the lower Court before the Stables with a twisted Handkerchief and laying it on the Papists But in a less rigorous Signification as it implies the Representing a thing otherwise than it is and putting on false Colours whether by Wry Interpretations False Inferences Malicious Applications Weak Reasonings or any such like Topick For by whatsoever Method the thing is made to appear otherwise than it is 't is all the Misrepresenting I desire and equally fit for my purpose And now I have so far comply'd with the Answerer I hope the Talk of Misrepresenting as he says will be over And yet if he has a mind to prove once more in other ten Sheets That Misrepresenting is not to be taken in its strict and proper sense let him do it 't is only Twelve-pence apiece more for the Curious The Judicious will think it only worth a Smile if so much But I am yet in Arrears and must not part thus For it seems the Answerer has a Complaint against me and 't is this pag 3. That in my last Reply instead of defending my own Misrepresentations which I so unjustly father'd upon them I have pick'd up new Misrepresentations for him to Answer And really I was much to blame to look out for new Misrepresentations when he had little to say against the former except that they were not to be call'd Misresentations in a strict sense But where did I father 'em upon any body I laid them at no bodys door and if some appear'd so solicitous in clearing themselves that they were suspected to be Fathers they may thank themselves I pointed at none 'T is true for the shewing they were none of my own Childish Conceits I at length produc'd some eminent Protestants describing Popery with the same ill Features and worse than I had drawn it in my Character of a Papist Misrepresented and first the Archbishop of York And here the Quarrel is because I left out the Authorities mention'd by that Prelate And now the Answerer has inserted those Authorities what do they make to his purpose or against me Were they all exact and true which yet no Man will be able to make good is every thing to be set forth for the Faith of a Church which can be found in one Author as it is by him when he prefixes to them a He that is the Papist must believe Can the Church of England stand this Test Would it not be Misrepresenting her to Preface every extravagant Saying of her Members with She believes and She teaches What signifie therefore the mentioning those Authors when the Question is not What some Private Authors say but what the Church believes When the Archbishop therefore brings in the Papist professing his Faith with this solemn Protestation We must believe and then supports the Paradox with a single Authority or two as this was in him a piece of Artifice not justifiable amongst Friends so the omission of such Testimonies was beyond the possibility of being a Design unless it were of Consulting the Credit of the Prelate And tho' the Books mention'd were publish'd by Authority of Superiors yet from such Books cannot be fairly Represented the Faith of the Church and whosoever pretends to do it is nothing less than a Misrepresenter Nor will a Church of England-Man I fancy much question this Truth who I believe upon consideration will allow that his Church may be easily Misrepresented if every idle Opinion to be pick'd out of Books which come forth with an Imprimatur were to be inserted into the Character of her Faith And I cannot but wonder the Answerer should urge this Dispute now at this time when we have seen a Book Publish'd by Authority of Pope Cardinals and other Dignitaries and in a particular manner approv'd by them and yet question'd by some as not Representing the Faith of the Church aright Methinks when a Book of this Authority comes to be disputed as not truly Representing I cannot understand how every other Author with a petty Licence is a sufficient ground for a Representer But it must be so to drive the Business on When a Protestant shews forth the Church of Rome every thing that can be rak'd out of Books is authentick enough for him to put into the Character but when a Catholick Prelate Expounds the Doctrine of his Church all the Authority of Pope
how has he done it He says he has prov'd that the Character of a Papist Misrepresented contains nothing in it which in a STRICT and PROPER sense can be call'd a Misrepresentation That it contains no Misrepresentation PROPERLY so call'd That there is nothing of Misrepresentation PROPERLY so call'd This is the way he has answer'd and confuted it and for this he is set up upon every Stall as bidding me defiance and with the Character of an Adversary But really the World is over hasty in proclaiming men at Odds. I love Peace too well to fall out about such Trisles Let those who have a mind to it fight for a Word for my part he shall never be my Enemy who demands no more of me than this I le willingly yeild my right in such a Point as this rather than make an Adversary of one who is so civil to ask no more Nay rather than fail of obliging my Answerer I le e'en crave his pardon for putting him to the trouble of reinforcing his proofs a Second time He says here p. 2. He hop'd the talk of Misrepresenting would have been at an end After he had prov'd to wit in his Former Reply that the Character of a Papist Misrepresented contain'd no Misrepresentation properly so call'd in its strict and proper Sense And really 't was only through mistake and not design that I have been so troublesome to oblige him even to the talk of Misrepresenting beyond his expectation For had I but imagin'd that that had been the utmost of his design in his last Ten Sheets I should certainly have so far condescended to so Gentile an Adversary as to have spar'd him the Charges and Sweat of laying down his Proofs again And therefore that he may not be importun'd with any farther talk of Misrepresenting for the future I do here in compliance with him solemnly declare that the Title of the Papist Misrepresented is not to be taken in its strict and proper Sense as Misrepresenting signifies only downright Lying or falsly charging matter of Fact the whole Character being not indeed of this Nature But in its larger or less proper Sense as it comprehends both Lying Calumniating Misinterpreting Reproaching Misconstruing Mis-judging and whatever else of this kind For in this Sense I don't find the Answerer has any dislike to it But in case this should not please him neither I le yield one step lower and will have Misrepresenting quite blotted out But then he must give me leave to see If I can please him with something else in its stead And what if I should try if something borrow'd from the French would be more suitable to his humor That Nation speaks very politely and quaintly it may be a Title a-la-mode de France may be as acceptable as their Fashions What then if I should take Copy from the Acts of the General Assembly of the French Clergy lately Published and instead of that Improper English word of Misrepresenting prefix to my Book what they have done to their Complaint viz. The Calumnies Injuries and Falsities which the Pretended Reformd publish in their Books and Sermons against the Doctrine of the Church If this will agree to the Character in a more strict and proper sense than Misrepresenting let me but know his Sentiments and wee 'l never fall out for want of such a Reformation But however that he may be sensible how much he 's to be engag'd to me for this condescention I must assure him that whatsoever I yield in this kind is purely out of good nature and for the love of Peace and not as oblig'd to it by force of his Arguments For really to speak freely and betwixt Friends I do not think he has advanc'd any thing in the whole matter that has the face of a Proof but proceeds all along upon a Principle suppos'd to be certain indeed but without the support of either Authority or Reason His Principle is this That there can be no Misrepresenting where there 's an agreement about matter of Fact which to me has more of the Counterfeit in it than true Standard For were the Anti-Protester put to prove that there can be no proper Misrepresentation where there 's an agreement about matter of Fact I believe 't is not every ordinary Topick would find him matter for a Demonstration For Misrepresenting seems to stand in opposition to Representing and proper Representing being nothing more than the Describing or shewing a thing as it is in it self As many ways as a thing can be shewn otherwise than it is in it self so many ways may it be properly Misrepresented Now 't is certain that for the description to bear an exact resemblance with the thing it must not only agree with it in matter of Fact but likewise in every other respect which it pretends to declare as in Motive Circumstance Intention End c. The disagreement in any one of these being enough to quite change the nature of the thing notwithstanding the matter of Fact being still the same Nay many times even a Grin a Wry Face a Shrug or a Frown is enough to Misrepresent any man without belying him in matter of Fact 'T is certain the Children of Reuben and of Gad and the half Tribe of Manesseh had been fouly Misrepresented if upon sight of the Altar raised by them on the Brink of Jordan they had been presently declar'd as Rebels against God by the other Ten Tribes as Prevaricators of the Law of MOSES and as Setters up of an Altar against the Altar of God and of Israel This I say had been certainly a Misrepresentation of the Two Tribes and a half because tho' the matter of Fact viz. the building an Altar was true beyond all exception yet because they raised this Altar not for Burnt Offerings or for Sacrifice but to be a Testimony to their Children to come that they had a part in the Lord the branding them with the Title of Rebels against God and as Schismaticks from the Altar of the Tabernacle had been altogether unjustifiable and a Representing them to their Fellow-Tribes otherwise then they were which is properly Misrepresenting And had not Hannah been Misrepresented too if Eli had set her out amongst her Neighbours for a Drunken Gossip and a Prophaner of the House of the Lord when he saw her muttering over her Prayers without hearing her voice I know if Our Answerer had been by neither the two Tribes nor Hannah must have complained in this Case of being Misrepresented He would have told them whilst there was an agreement about matter of Fact there could be no Misrepresentation in a strict and proper Sense that therefore they might rest contented with this infamy upon them since by this one Principle they had a full Answer and Confutation of their Complaint And is not this an admirable expedient now for the Honestest Man in the World to be blasted in his Credit and Reputation and yet not to
but their Obligation is forthwith dispens'd with they are allow'd to take a Wife and wholly releas'd from their Vow And heark ye now my Chosen of the Lord if they can thus dispense with a Vow made to God what trust can be placed in them how can we rely on them since after this there 's no difficulty in pretending to a Power of releasing the Obligation to Veracity amongst Men 11. They are a Cruel Bloody and Persecuting Church and think nothing unjust which is for the Interest of their Cause for the Security and Propagation of their Doctrine You know how they help'd on this score the Low Countries to Rebell against their Lawful Sovereign and were the occasion of much Innocent Blood being Spilt and how they profer'd to assist the French in their Rebellion against their Prince What they did to that unfortunate Mary Queen of Scots you know likewise full well She took Sanctuary here and being Heiress of the Crown was made a Sacrifice upon the Scaffold for pretended Crimes but in good truth for nothing else but the Security of the Church of England Charles I. fell too upon the same account They lay this you know at Dissenters doors but how far that War was an Episcopal War the Lord knows For besides the engaging him to take up Arms on their account you know one Archbishop changed his Rochet for a Coat of Mail and the greatest number of the Convocation-House of what Church were they 12. They practice Cruelty again in persecuting us for not obeying their Church when they at the same time are as great Dissenters as we For look you now Beloved are not their Ministers commanded by their Church to enjoy but one Benefice And yet how many of them possess two or three They find no difficulty of being dispens'd in this Duty if they can but make a Friend to speak for them and Forty pound for the Fees Are not their Prelates commanded by their Rubrick to wear a Scarlet Robe a White Rochet and Corner'd Cap their Ministers an Albe and Tunicle and who is there complies with this Order Do's not their Church command all of their Communion to Fast all Lent the Ember-days Rogation-days and all Fridays in the Year and yet who of them satisfies this Precept Do we not find the contrary every where practis'd And not only in this but in a thousand other Instances of the like nature And yet while they themselves thus frankly trample the Commands of their Church under feet is it not a most malicious Cruelty that we should be persecuted for not satisfying her Precepts So that tho' we are Members of their Church we can by their good will enjoy no Peace amongst them They spare us our Lives indeed but without Liberty or Property the only Comforts of Life 13. They teach Absurdities and Contradictions First in requiring us to submit to the Authority of their Church and punishing us for refusal and then charging such as follow them from all such Submission and giving them liberty of embracing nothing that is propos'd to them but what they themselves shall judge consonant to the Word of God And thus we must be oblig'd to go to Church and yet when we come there the Appeal is made from the Pulpit to the People and we need not believe what we hear unless we think fit our selves Then the Authority of Councils we must like wise allow and submit to and yet after all their Examinations and Determinations we need not receive what they Decree unless in our own private Judgments we think it conform to Reason and the Law So that we must not be allow'd to do what we think best and guide our selves and yet when we follow them we need believe or do no more than we think fitting Which is to take them for Governors and Directors and then afterwards go alone by our selves 14. After all this Liberty left to their Followers 't is yet the Belief of their Church That whosoever will follow her must shut his Eyes stifle his Sense and Reason and be led only by the Nose And therefore we poor Schismaticks must not reform any Abuse or Superstition which our Reason assures us to be contrary to the Word of God without the Thunder of Excommunication forthwith breaking upon our Heads but if their Church in Parliament and Convocation makes any Reformation there 's no Appeal to be made to Sense or Reason but 't is immediately to be receiv'd as the Sense of the Word of God by all her Members And therefore says one of their Divines let them in the Name of God Reform on if they proceed according to due Course of Law and Act with Authority For as to What and How and How far things are to be Reform'd such as you and I are must leave it to the Wisdom and Pleasure of Governors So that we must lay aside our Reason if we intend to enter their Congregation 't is only going on blindly without fear or care and relying confidently on their Infallible Governors and we shall be forthwith True and Substantial Churchmen And what think you my Brethren do's not this smell of the Infallible Chair 'T is e'en so But such is the Church from which you are happily gone out Thus teach her Divines and thus are her Members allow'd to believe For you cannot doubt but that all of them are allow'd to believe that which any Man among them is allow'd to teach 15. By this means they are a wavering and unsetled Church subject to continual Variations and turning as many ways as their Governors please to wind them and yet still all is according to the Word of God In the first Common-Prayer-Book of Edward the Sixth 't was requir'd that Water should be mingled with the Communion-Wine and that in the Consecration of the Elements the Minister should sign them twice with the Sign of the Cross And that the Communion-Bread should be unleaven'd and round Baptismal Water was likewise appointed to be bless'd with the Sign of the Cross The Minister was commanded to Exorcise and Conjure out the unclean Spirit from the Infant to dip him thrice in the Water to Anoynt him with Ovl upon the Head and put on him the White Vesture call'd the Crysome and make the Cross on his Breast and Forehead In Consirmation the Bishops were order'd to Cross the Children on the Forehead In the Visitation of the Sick the Minister was to Anoint the Sick Person on his Forehead or Breast making the Sign of the Cross And there was no Command to receive the Sacrament Kneeling This was their Church then as Establish'd by Law and the Pleasure of Governors and conform to the Scripture but now their Scripture and Governors say otherwise and condemn what they then approv'd 'T was then according to Scripture to Pray for the Dead as in the same Book of Edward VI. Now the Scripture forbids it The Form of Ordination was then and many years after