thing_n when_o they_o must_v we_o find_v it_o so_o in_o all_o converse_v with_o man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v man_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o authority_n and_o obedience_n and_o only_a persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o such_o case_n be_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a member_n in_o your_o church_n to_o submit_v or_o not_o submit_v as_o they_o please_v there_o will_v be_v much_o ado_n to_o remedy_v any_o thing_n as_o will_v be_v betwixt_o church_n differ_v but_o particular_o for_o excommunication_n and_o non-communion_n excommunication_n may_v upon_o these_o ground_n awe_v man_n conscience_n more_o and_o be_v more_o effectual_a than_o non-communion_n 1._o because_o there_o be_v something_o positive_a in_o it_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o the_o offender_n up_o unto_o satan_n but_o your_o non-communion_n be_v a_o privative_a deprive_v only_o of_o communion_n now_o there_o be_v more_o efficacy_n in_o a_o positive_a then_o in_o a_o privative_a and_o negative_a second_o excommunication_n do_v deprive_v the_o person_n offend_v or_o the_o church_n of_o all_o communion_n among_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o the_o communion_n of_o other_o church_n whereas_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v but_o take_v other_o church_n off_o from_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o meddle_v not_o to_o debar_v they_o of_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o their_o own_o particular_a church_n but_o still_o they_o enjoy_v the_o word_n prayer_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n three_o yourselves_o make_v excommunication_n the_o great_a censure_n as_o appear_v by_o your_o own_o phrase_n call_v it_o a_o authoritative_a power_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o practise_v that_o against_o other_o church_n whereas_o you_o do_v exercise_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o we_o know_v it_o be_v the_o high_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n now_o certain_o the_o great_a censure_n and_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o intention_n be_v more_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o awe_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n amiss_o then_o the_o lesser_a and_o low_a censure_n and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o comparison_n in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n you_o grant_v that_o aught_o to_o back_n and_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o you_o give_v more_o as_o you_o think_v to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yeâ—…ld_v your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o answer_v suppose_v all_o that_o you_o say_v of_o give_v so_o much_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n &c_n &c_n be_v true_a yet_o that_o make_v not_o your_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n so_o effectual_a a_o mean_n as_o excommunication_n for_o the_o question_n be_v about_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o about_o spiritual_a mean_n and_o remedy_n for_o the_o conscience_n and_o soul_n and_o not_o about_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a external_a mean_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v you_o this_o question_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n either_o you_o give_v he_o a_o ecclesiastical_a spiritual_a power_n of_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n to_o church_n miscarry_v or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o give_v he_o not_o this_o first_o as_o i_o judge_v your_o principle_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o he_o be_v no_o churchofficer_n of_o christ_n â—…hurch_n but_o only_o christ_n give_v pastor_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n as_o necessary_a and_o sufficient_a for_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n than_o all_o you_o say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n help_v you_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o before_o i_o speak_v any_o more_o to_o that_o point_n that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n back_v your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n i_o must_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o passage_n itself_o both_o in_o the_o comparative_a of_o your_o say_n you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o upon_o the_o positive_a what_o you_o give_v they_o 1._o for_o the_o comparison_n it_o be_v a_o odious_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n to_o prepare_v king_n and_o parliament_n to_o reject_v the_o presbytery_n as_o not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n as_o be_v their_o due_n and_o it_o be_v scandalous_a against_o scotland_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o what_o be_v the_o main_a â—…nd_n of_o it_o or_o what_o may_v be_v conceive_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o say_n you_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o see_v man_n of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v never_o guilty_a yet_o of_o give_v too_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o magistrate_n you_o be_v the_o first_o independent_o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o public_o you_o have_v express_v yourselves_o thus_o i_o judge_v you_o be_v politician_n politici_fw-la theologi_fw-la to_o flatter_v the_o parliament_n at_o this_o time_n the_o better_a to_o work_v your_o end_n for_o a_o toleration_n and_o to_o promote_v your_o churchway_n you_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v observe_v by_o learned_a man_n that_o among_o the_o principal_a attempt_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n whereby_o they_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o the_o netherlands_o into_o commotion_n and_o to_o obtain_v their_o own_o end_n this_o be_v a_o great_a one_o the_o cry_v up_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o by_o write_v of_o book_n of_o their_o great_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n and_o in_o their_o sermon_n every_o where_o and_o their_o asperse_v the_o orthodox_n minister_n and_o their_o lawful_a meeting_n and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n with_o the_o contrary_a and_o among_o many_o other_o particular_n of_o the_o great_a power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n this_o be_v one_o that_o they_o do_v ascribe_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o ultimate_a and_o high_a jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o give_v judgement_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n reason_v that_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o immediate_o under_o christ_n do_v belong_v the_o judgement_n when_o controversy_n of_o faith_n do_v arise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o after_o the_o arminian_n despair_v of_o prevail_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o bring_v and_o remove_v their_o cause_n from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a cognizance_n to_o another_o court_n by_o their_o policy_n and_o artifices_fw-la make_v use_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o one_o or_o two_o chief_a man_n in_o place_n to_o work_v for_o they_o and_o that_o this_o new-way_n may_v have_v some_o colour_n and_o that_o so_o much_o the_o more_o easy_o the_o favour_n of_o many_o politician_n or_o at_o least_o a_o toleration_n may_v be_v procure_v for_o these_o arminian_n novelty_n there_o be_v a_o book_n set_v forth_o by_o uttenbogardus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la many_o other_o of_o the_o arminian_n also_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n as_o episcopius_n print_v a_o disputation_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlaeus_n grotius_n etc._n etc._n and_o beside_o all_o these_o there_o be_v a_o great_a number_n of_o book_n put_v forth_o in_o the_o vulgar_a and_o mother_n tongue_n of_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o whilst_o the_o magistrate_n let_v the_o arminian_n alonâ—…_n and_o do_v nothing_o against_o they_o even_o till_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1618._o they_o slatter_v they_o thus_o but_o after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n have_v determine_v against_o their_o opinion_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n be_v agaiâ—…t_v they_o than_o they_o lift_v up_o the_o heel_n and_o then_o they_o write_v book_n in_o a_o far_a other_o stile_n and_o in_o their_o apology_n that_o power_n which_o before_o they_o have_v so_o liberal_o measure_v out_o for_o they_o they_o do_v not_o a_o little_a limit_n and_o contract_n and_o offend_v as_o much_o in_o the_o defect_n give_v magistrate_n too_o little_a as_o before_o they_o have_v in_o the_o excess_n give_v they_o too_o much_o for_o the_o full_a proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o learned_a erant_fw-la voetius_fw-la select_a disputation_n concern_v that_o question_n penes_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la where_o he_o do_v at_o large_a relate_v this_o and_o their_o opinion_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n after_o the_o synod_n
of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o afâ—…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o â—…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n veâ—…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o sâ—…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n â—…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v that_o your_o churchway_n consist_v all_o of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o not_o grow_v into_o great_a body_n by_o combination_n and_o synod_n the_o magistrate_n power_n be_v great_a over_o you_o in_o that_o he_o may_v easy_o deal_v with_o you_o and_o dissolve_v you_o at_o pleasure_n but_o for_o a_o power_n to_o grow_v into_o so_o great_a a_o body_n a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o large_a as_o the_o civil_a so_o combine_v this_o may_v be_v formidable_a and_o dangerous_a to_o the_o state_n and_o too_o great_a for_o the_o magistrate_n hereafter_o to_o rectify_v this_o have_v be_v by_o a_o active_a independent_a upon_o discourse_n of_o these_o point_n suggest_v to_o i_o and_o how_o far_o one_o of_o you_o have_v reason_v thus_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o many_o against_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o for_o congregationall_a you_o can_v remember_v or_o second_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o this_o phrase_n that_o when_o heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
concern_v which_o question_n it_o be_v a_o point_n that_o i_o have_v not_o much_o study_v i_o shall_v not_o declare_v my_o judgement_n in_o it_o but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n it_o seem_v that_o in_o the_o thing_n of_o jehovah_n the_o last_o judgement_n do_v belong_v to_o the_o chief_a ecclesiastical_a assembly_n which_o sit_v at_o jerusalem_n deut._n 17._o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o verse_n as_o junius_n in_o his_o analisis_fw-la illustrate_v that_o place_n and_o the_o argument_n bring_v by_o apollonius_n in_o this_o point_n septimae_fw-la with_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la argument_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o strength_n in_o they_o and_o i_o entreat_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n if_o you_o will_v formal_o own_o the_o give_n of_o this_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n that_o you_o will_v answer_v that_o second_o chapter_n of_o apollonius_n but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o conclusion_n of_o the_o comparison_n of_o the_o effectualness_n between_o the_o two_o way_n suppose_v all_o you_o say_v of_o submission_n non-communion_n protestation_n be_v true_a as_o also_o that_o you_o do_v give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_a and_o that_o in_o spiritual_a matter_n in_o case_n of_o difference_n injury_n etc._n etc._n you_o will_v from_o the_o church_n have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o submit_v to_o his_o judgement_n and_o that_o you_o do_v allow_v and_o will_v stand_v to_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o they_o judge_v meet_v notwithstanding_o you_o have_v determine_v it_o that_o without_o all_o controversy_n your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o it_o fall_v far_o short_a of_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n both_o in_o prevent_v and_o remedy_v sin_n error_n offence_n and_o in_o promote_a knowledge_n godliness_n and_o peace_n in_o the_o church_n for_o suppose_v non-communion_n of_o church_n be_v a_o way_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o remedy_n the_o contrary_a to_o which_o i_o have_v at_o large_a show_v yet_o you_o must_v confess_v it_o be_v but_o a_o low_a remedy_n not_o a_o authoritative_a powererfull_a dreadful_a remedy_n and_o mean_n like_o that_o of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v the_o high_a and_o great_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n the_o church_n thunderbolt_n and_o anathema_n a_o remedy_n and_o last_v mean_n which_o recover_v a_o sinner_n when_o all_o other_o will_v not_o as_o admonition_n suspension_n deposition_n and_o so_o when_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n will_v not_o in_o the_o scripture_n be_v lay_v down_o many_o eminent_a fruit_n and_o effect_n of_o excommunication_n in_o the_o people_n of_o god_n which_o be_v not_o of_o any_o censure_n else_o and_o i_o may_v fill_v a_o book_n with_o the_o end_n benefit_n and_o fruit_n of_o this_o censure_n lay_v down_o by_o divine_n in_o their_o tractate_v and_o common_a place_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o excommunication_n but_o i_o will_v name_v only_o that_o of_o the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n 59_o excommunication_n be_v the_o last_o remedy_n and_o the_o sharp_a for_o the_o subdue_a of_o the_o flesh_n in_o a_o man_n and_o for_o the_o quicken_a of_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o most_o efficacious_a example_n lest_o the_o sound_a part_n shall_v be_v corrupt_v but_o against_o they_o who_o persevere_v in_o their_o contumacy_n and_o impenitency_n it_o be_v the_o only_a mean_n to_o free_v the_o house_n of_o god_n of_o leaven_n and_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n from_o scandal_n and_o so_o to_o vindicate_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n from_o profanation_n and_o the_o name_n of_o god_n from_o the_o blaspheme_n of_o they_o without_o now_o pray_v show_v we_o in_o the_o scripture_n any_o where_o the_o excellent_a fruit_n benefit_n end_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n against_o they_o as_o we_o can_v of_o excommunication_n in_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 5._o 2_o cor._n 2._o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o 2_o thess._n 3._o 14._o 1_o tim._n 1._o 20._o and_o then_o for_o that_o other_o remedy_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n add_v to_o non-communion_n to_o eke_o out_o wherein_o non-communion_n may_v be_v defective_a to_o excommunication_n and_o for_o that_o purpose_n you_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o so_o what_o you_o fail_v and_o come_v short_a in_o ecclesiastical_a power_n you_o may_v make_v it_o up_o in_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n the_o result_n of_o which_o must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o though_o in_o your_o churchway_n you_o have_v not_o so_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n for_o miscarriage_n and_o for_o reduce_v church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n and_o schism_n yet_o you_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n and_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n more_o to_o interpose_v for_o help_v and_o reduce_v so_o that_o less_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o authority_n with_o a_o large_a civil_a power_n to_o back_o it_o will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n with_o a_o small_a civil_a power_n but_o of_o this_o i_o shall_v show_v you_o your_o mistake_n because_o the_o question_n be_v of_o church_n matter_n and_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n and_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n now_o the_o remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o these_o be_v spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a namely_o spiritual_a punishment_n christ_n say_v my_o kingdom_n be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n and_o the_o apostle_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 3_o 4_o 5._o the_o weapon_n of_o our_o warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a but_o mighty_a through_o god_n to_o the_o pull_v down_o of_o strong_a hold_n by_o which_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n even_o every_o thought_n be_v subject_v to_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n must_v be_v use_v in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o they_o christ_n do_v his_o work_n and_o hence_o in_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o those_o scandal_n in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n punishment_n in_o the_o body_n or_o in_o the_o purse_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v be_v by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o place_n at_o all_o sanctificata_fw-la neither_o can_v such_o mean_n which_o be_v of_o a_o different_a kind_n from_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n produce_v those_o effect_n which_o belong_v 10â—…_n to_o that_o heavenly_a kingdom_n it_o be_v out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o the_o activity_n of_o the_o political_a magistrate_n to_o subdue_v the_o inward_a man_n or_o to_o inflict_v spiritual_a punishment_n upon_o the_o conscience_n and_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o common_a in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o most_o learned_a and_o orthodox_n divine_v then_o to_o show_v that_o the_o civil_a power_n and_o government_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o ecclesiastical_a government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v toto_fw-la genere_fw-la disjoin_v and_o thereupon_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o deal_v with_o the_o corrupt_a manner_n and_o disorder_n of_o his_o people_n be_v in_o the_o nature_n and_o specifical_a reason_n distinct_a from_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o punish_v sin_n do_v not_o subserve_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n the_o mediator_n that_o he_o may_v apply_v efficacious_o to_o the_o elect_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o priestly_a office_n of_o christ_n he_o do_v not_o affect_v the_o inward_a man_n and_o conscience_n with_o spiritual_a punishment_n neither_o be_v this_o institute_v of_o god_n and_o sanctify_a as_o the_o mean_n for_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o flesh_n that_o the_o spirit_n may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ._n hence_o also_o by_o divine_n the_o manifold_a difference_n between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v observe_v eccl._n zanchius_n do_v accurate_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o they_o the_o cause_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o the_o punishment_n of_o sin_n but_o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o sinner_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n but_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n be_v that_o he_o shall_v punish_v the_o sin_n itself_o neither_o dâ—…th_n it_o look_v to_o the_o salvation_n or_o damnation_n of_o the_o offender_n whereupon_o although_o the_o sinner_n repent_v yet_o he_o do_v not_o spare_v but_o punish_v according_a to_o his_o office_n but_o the_o church_n according_a to_o christ_n doctrine_n do_v not_o strike_v with_o the_o spiritual_a sword_n unless_o he_o be_v impenitent_a neither_o be_v this_o do_v for_o death_n but_o for_o salvation_n
open_a trial_n and_o what_o speak_v you_o of_o room_n for_o complaint_n and_o of_o subject_v to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o review_v of_o what_o can_v be_v bring_v and_o of_o be_v censurable_a by_o neighbour_n church_n etc._n etc._n whether_o be_v not_o all_o these_o the_o usual_a phrase_n and_o expression_n of_o act_n of_o power_n and_o government_n can_v there_o be_v so_o much_o as_o trial_n and_o examination_n and_o judiciary_n charge_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n without_o authority_n much_o less_o censure_n can_v you_o ever_o show_v it_o either_o in_o civil_a government_n in_o commonwealth_n or_o in_o ecclesiastical_a in_o church_n out_o of_o scripture_n or_o story_n where_o all_o these_o act_n be_v exercise_v and_o practise_v by_o person_n who_o only_o have_v power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n and_o if_o you_o can_v how_o can_v you_o make_v it_o good_a but_o that_o this_o must_v be_v more_o than_o advice_n and_o counsel_n namely_o authoritative_a power_n it_o be_v give_v as_o a_o rule_n by_o yourselves_o that_o in_o matter_n of_o a_o common_a nature_n it_o be_v in_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o civil_a now_o if_o in_o all_o civil_a assembly_n all_o these_o act_n and_o practice_n be_v act_n of_o authority_n and_o government_n why_o hold_v it_o not_o so_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o further_o to_o reason_n though_o church_n be_v sister_n and_o equal_v each_o consider_v by_o itself_o yet_o in_o case_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n between_o church_n the_o church_n complain_v and_o appeal_v unto_o to_o who_o the_o rest_n submit_v shall_v now_o be_v great_a and_o have_v more_o power_n in_o this_o thing_n than_o the_o church_n submit_v and_o their_o act_n shall_v be_v authoritative_a as_o in_o reason_n 6_o or_o 8_o man_n fall_v out_o and_o choose_v and_o submit_v to_o other_o to_o hear_v the_o business_n and_o make_v a_o end_n of_o it_o these_o be_v now_o great_a and_o have_v a_o power_n and_o authority_n over_o these_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la and_o in_o these_o act_n and_o what_o they_o do_v be_v act_n of_o power_n which_o they_o must_v stand_v unto_o or_o suffer_v the_o penalty_n three_o you_o speak_v more_o than_o once_o upon_o occasion_n of_o this_o scandal_n commit_v in_o that_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n of_o church_n as_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n sister_n church_n to_o be_v consult_v with_o before_o hand_n and_o of_o your_o church_n mutual_o and_o universal_o acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o how_o that_o church_n â—…hich_v with_o other_o be_v most_o scandalize_v do_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n and_o of_o require_v a_o full_a and_o public_a hear_n before_o all_o the_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n now_o what_o and_o where_o be_v those_o other_o church_n of_o who_o all_o this_o be_v speak_v i_o grant_v that_o at_o arnheim_n be_v one_o church_n that_o mr_n bridges_n church_n shall_v have_v consult_v with_o or_o have_v submit_v to_o but_o where_o be_v any_o other_o church_n i_o will_v yield_v the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n may_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n but_o i_o know_v not_o what_o other_o church_n do_v by_o letter_n do_v the_o like_a i_o grant_v the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n be_v a_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n before_o who_o the_o offend_a church_n do_v yield_v a_o public_a hear_n but_o i_o know_v of_o no_o other_o i_o will_v not_o question_v but_o that_o the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n and_o mr_n bridges_n church_n do_v upon_o the_o offence_n of_o depose_v mr_n ward_n acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o submit_v to_o one_o another_o but_o i_o doubt_v no_o other_o do_v then_o mutual_o submit_v for_o beside_o the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n offend_v and_o mr_n bridges_n church_n offend_v there_o be_v no_o other_o church_n of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n for_o the_o offend_a church_n to_o consult_v with_o or_o that_o do_v write_v letter_n or_o before_o who_o the_o business_n be_v hear_v etc._n etc._n for_o i_o suppose_v and_o judge_n mr_n simpson_n new_a church_n be_v at_o that_o difference_n with_o mr_n bridges_n church_n and_o mr_n bridge_n with_o he_o mr_n bridges_n church_n shall_v not_o have_v consult_v with_o mr_n simpson_n before_o hand_n and_o that_o mr_n bridges_n church_n will_v not_o have_v yield_v the_o principle_n of_o submission_n to_o have_v submit_v to_o a_o full_a trial_n and_o examination_n of_o all_o proceed_n before_o mr_n simpson_n and_o in_o case_n mr_n simpson_n church_n have_v send_v letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n they_o will_v have_v decline_v it_o as_o partial_a and_o as_o account_v they_o the_o party_n offend_v and_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o mr_n simpson_n with_o some_o messenger_n of_o his_o church_n join_v with_o the_o messenger_n of_o arnheim_n in_o the_o trial_n of_o that_o business_n of_o mr_n ward_n or_o sit_v as_o judge_n etc._n etc._n so_o that_o i_o can_v tell_v why_o you_o use_v church_n in_o the_o plural_a number_n thus_o all_o along_o in_o that_o business_n but_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v conceive_v for_o your_o great_a authority_n and_o esteem_n and_o for_o the_o great_a solemnity_n of_o the_o action_n there_o be_v more_o church_n beside_o that_o at_o arnheim_n four_o for_o those_o two_o gentleman_n who_o be_v send_v with_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n offend_v to_o require_v a_o account_n whether_o be_v those_o gentleman_n elder_n of_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n or_o private_a member_n only_o if_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n why_o be_v private_a member_n send_v before_o elder_n show_v we_o a_o rule_n for_o that_o and_o satisfy_v we_o how_o private_a person_n and_o no_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v represent_v the_o church_n but_o if_o they_o be_v elder_n why_o do_v you_o name_v they_o gentleman_n only_o and_o not_o speak_v of_o they_o as_o officer_n 5._o whether_o though_o you_o make_v so_o sure_a of_o it_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v upon_o the_o ground_n of_o reason_n and_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o it_o be_v not_o more_o brotherly_a and_o more_o suit_v to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n have_v endow_v his_o church_n with_o but_o a_o point_n of_o great_a authority_n inequality_n and_o usurpation_n for_o four_o man_n grant_v they_o to_o be_v a_o church_n representative_a to_o take_v upon_o they_o what_o those_o four_o member_n of_o arnheim_n do_v to_o a_o whole_a church_n for_o so_o many_o day_n so_o full_o and_o judiciary_o to_o proceed_v as_o you_o write_v in_o the_o 21_o page_n then_o for_o a_o whole_a presbytery_n of_o minister_n and_o elder_n or_o a_o grave_a synod_n to_o call_v to_o a_o account_n and_o hear_v the_o offence_n of_o two_o or_o three_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o together_o with_o that_o church_n representative_a to_o decree_v such_o censure_n as_o public_a acknowledgement_n of_o their_o offence_n or_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n six_o i_o much_o wonder_v how_o you_o can_v call_v the_o meeting_n of_o mr_n goodwin_n and_o mr_n nye_n with_o two_o gentleman_n more_o call_z mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o that_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v delinquent_n such_o a_o solâ—…mne_a assembly_n the_o solemnity_n of_o which_o have_v leave_v as_o deep_a a_o imprâ—…ssion_n upon_o your_o heart_n of_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o you_o have_v beeâ—…_n present_a at_o certain_o you_o have_v either_o be_v but_o at_o few_o solemn_a assembly_n where_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n have_v be_v or_o else_o your_o fancy_n be_v mighty_a high_a at_o that_o time_n as_o to_o make_v such_o a_o deep_a impression_n upon_o you_o of_o a_o dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o you_o have_v be_v at_o let_v i_o ask_v mr_n nye_n what_o be_v this_o assembly_n beyond_o the_o solemn_a general_a assembly_n of_o scotland_n where_o you_o be_v present_a when_o the_o great_a solemn_a covenant_n of_o the_o kingdom_n pass_v of_o which_o you_o write_v so_o high_o into_o england_n or_o be_v it_o beyond_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n wherein_o not_o only_o two_o of_o you_o be_v for_o consultation_n but_o all_o you_o â—…ive_v with_o so_o many_o other_o godly_a divine_n where_o instead_o of_o two_o gentleman_n assist_v then_o here_o the_o worthy_n of_o both_o house_n lord_n and_o commons_o assist_v nay_o a_o theatre_n of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o judicious_a and_o severe_a where_o much_o of_o the_o piety_n learning_n and_o wisdom_n of_o two_o kingdom_n be_v meet_v in_o one_o as_o yourselves_o confess_v afterward_o in_o the_o 27_o page_n i_o be_o of_o the_o mind_n there_o be_v ordinary_o many_o assembly_n and_o where_o you_o may_v have_v be_v that_o have_v a_o more_o dreadful_a presence_n of_o christ_n then_o that_o have_v the_o church_n meet_v to_o partake_v in_o the_o lord_n supper_n call_v the_o dreadful_a and_o terrible_a hour_n by_o some_o of_o the_o father_n
which_o you_o say_v to_o be_v true_a that_o you_o hold_v all_o apolog._n fair_a correspondency_n with_o they_o that_o may_v be_v upon_o other_o ground_n for_o your_o own_o advantage_n and_o benefit_v many_o way_n you_o be_v stranger_n and_o they_o in_o their_o own_o country_n as_o also_o to_o see_v if_o you_o can_v gain_v any_o of_o their_o minister_n to_o your_o churchway_n and_o as_o for_o your_o receive_v some_o of_o their_o member_n unto_o communion_n in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o may_v be_v but_o to_o strengthen_v your_o own_o way_n and_o to_o advance_v that_o church-principle_n of_o receive_v they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o relation_n of_o membership_n and_o here_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v two_o question_n to_o you_o 1._o whether_o in_o receive_v some_o member_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n who_o desire_v to_o communicate_v with_o you_o you_o put_v they_o upon_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o their_o church_n and_o belong_v thereunto_o as_o you_o do_v the_o 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scripture_n the_o authority_n of_o counsel_n and_o synod_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v satisfaction_n to_o most_o of_o the_o material_a ground_n which_o have_v mislead_v you_o in_o your_o churchway_n in_o which_o answer_v you_o shall_v find_v that_o the_o perfection_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v principal_o mean_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o for_o policy_n and_o external_a order_n wherein_o the_o scripture_n do_v reach_v to_o they_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o essential_o substantial_o and_o fundamental_o of_o government_n and_o discipline_n and_o not_o of_o the_o accidental_n accessary_n and_o circumstantial_o as_o i_o can_v abundant_o out_o of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n junius_n daneus_n show_v you_o but_o i_o intend_v a_o whole_a tractate_n upon_o that_o question_n of_o the_o scripture_n how_o far_o they_o be_v a_o rule_n for_o all_o matter_n of_o external_a government_n and_o order_n in_o the_o visible_a church_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o this_o objection_n particular_o and_o will_v not_o enlarge_v further_o save_v only_o that_o i_o will_v add_v the_o resolution_n of_o this_o question_n and_o case_n out_o of_o whitaker_n chamier_n and_o cameron_n who_o be_v full_a and_o clear_a that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o perfection_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o all_o matter_n of_o external_a order_n and_o policy_n be_v not_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o word_n learned_a chamier_n show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o france_n holland_n nay_o he_o show_v it_o be_v the_o perpetual_a opinion_n of_o all_o the_o protestant_n and_o he_o add_v yea_o true_o to_o speak_v as_o the_o matter_n be_v the_o church_n can_v be_v altogether_o without_o unwritten_a tradition_n and_o he_o instance_n in_o certain_a rite_n according_a to_o place_n time_n and_o person_n changeable_a and_o various_a so_o cameron_n for_o since_o the_o scripture_n have_v 11._o be_v ordain_v of_o god_n to_o make_v one_o wise_a unto_o salvation_n and_o perfect_a unto_o every_o good_a work_n it_o must_v without_o doubt_n contain_v all_o doctrine_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n otherwise_o it_o can_v not_o attain_v its_o end_n let_v we_o then_o adore_v as_o tertullian_n speak_v the_o fullness_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o let_v we_o not_o hear_v as_o athanasius_n speak_v neither_o receive_v any_o thing_n beside_o or_o above_o they_o in_o that_o which_o concern_v the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n for_o touch_v the_o policy_n and_o ceremony_n use_v in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v another_o matter_n we_o avouch_v that_o the_o father_n do_v not_o think_v themselves_o bind_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o they_o by_o the_o scripture_n so_o dr_n whitaker_n speak_v also_o the_o same_o in_o that_o question_n and_o controversy_n of_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o scripture_n against_o humane_a tradition_n catholici_fw-la in_o hoc_fw-la toto_fw-la negotio_fw-la distinguendum_fw-la putant_fw-la inter_fw-la râ—…s_fw-la quae_fw-la traduntur_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la &_o rationem_fw-la earum_fw-la tradendarum_fw-la &_o 16._o res_fw-la ipsas_fw-la esse_fw-la duorum_fw-la generum_fw-la scilicot_fw-la alius_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la substantia_fw-la est_fw-la &_o quasi_fw-la conpus_fw-la religionis_fw-la christianae_n non_fw-la tantum_fw-la ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la sed_fw-la etiam_fw-la ad_fw-la mores_fw-la formandos_fw-la politiamque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la continendam_fw-la proinde_fw-la necessarias_fw-la ex_fw-la vi_fw-la institutionis_fw-la divinae_fw-la alias_o ejuâ—…_n essentiae_fw-la velut_fw-la appondices_fw-la ejusque_fw-la corporis_fw-la ornamenta_fw-la neque_fw-la ex_fw-la sâ—…_n neque_fw-la ex_fw-la institutiono_fw-la divina_fw-la necessarias_fw-la sed_fw-la potiuâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d &_o politiâ—…_n tantum_fw-la causa_fw-la in_o usum_fw-la receptas_fw-la ut_fw-la sunt_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la partos_fw-la varijs_fw-la caenoâ—…ibus_fw-la sancitae_fw-la imo_fw-la vero_fw-la ut_fw-la fateamur_fw-la quod_fw-la res_fw-la est_fw-la omnino_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la career_n traditionibus_fw-la non_fw-la scripâ—…is_fw-la sive_fw-la intelligas_fw-la quotidianam_fw-la tradendae_fw-la 20._o fidâ—…libus_fw-la ojus_fw-la veritatis_fw-la quae_fw-la non_fw-la aliunde_fw-la hauritur_fw-la quam_fw-la è_fw-la libris_fw-la sacris_fw-la rationem_fw-la sive_fw-la ritus_fw-la quosdampro_fw-la locis_fw-la tempâ—…ribus_fw-la &_o persâ—…nis_fw-la varios_fw-la aptos_fw-la tamen_fw-la exercendae_fw-la pietati_fw-la charitatique_fw-la conservandae_fw-la qui_fw-la etsi_fw-la non_fw-la extent_n in_o canone_o totidem_fw-la literis_fw-la tamen_fw-la a_o nemine_fw-la contemni_fw-la debent_fw-la eo_fw-la ipso_fw-la quod_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la instituti_fw-la sunt_fw-la dum_fw-la tamen_fw-la nihil_fw-la officiant_fw-la aut_fw-la sinceritati_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la aut_fw-la libertati_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la cui_fw-la propriè_fw-la leges_fw-la prescribit_fw-la non_fw-la nisi_fw-la deus_fw-la non_fw-la dicimus_fw-la omnes_fw-la liberas_fw-la ceremonias_fw-la esse_fw-la nominatim_fw-la in_o scripture_n traditas_fw-la ut_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la se_fw-la gerere_fw-la debeant_fw-la homines_fw-la 10._o in_o sacris_fw-la caetibus_fw-la &_o hujusmodi_fw-la quas_fw-la esse_fw-la varias_fw-la &_o 〈◊〉_d pro_fw-la temporum_fw-la &_o personarum_fw-la ratione_fw-la minime_fw-la ignoramus_fw-la de_fw-la caeremonijs_fw-la inquam_fw-la liberis_fw-la quae_fw-la ad_fw-la externam_fw-la tantum_fw-la politiam_fw-la &_o decorum_n pertinent_a non_fw-la contendimus_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la necessaria_fw-la doctrina_fw-la haec_fw-la perpetua_fw-la illae_fw-la vero_fw-la non_fw-la perpetuae_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la tempora_fw-la accommodatae_fw-la deinde_fw-la fatemur_fw-la apostolos_fw-la in_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la ritus_fw-la aliquos_fw-la atque_fw-la consuetudines_fw-la ordinis_fw-la &_o decoris_fw-la causa_fw-la sanxisse_fw-la non_fw-la autem_fw-la engl._n scripsisse_fw-la quia_fw-la high_a ritus_fw-la non_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la perpetui_fw-la futuri_fw-la sed_fw-la liberi_fw-la qui_fw-la pro_fw-la commodo_fw-la &_o temporum_fw-la ratione_fw-la muâ—…ri_fw-la possunt_fw-la praescriptos_fw-la autem_fw-la ab_fw-la illis_fw-la esse_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la ritus_fw-la aliquos_fw-la ad_fw-la honestam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d accommodatos_fw-la pater_fw-la ex_fw-la 1_o cor._n 11._o &_o 14._o cap._n tantum_n generalis_fw-la regula_fw-la habetur_fw-la in_o scripture_n omnes_fw-la istosritus_fw-la ad_fw-la adificationem_fw-la ac_fw-la decorum_n esse_fw-la dirigendos_fw-la sed_fw-la ipsi_fw-la particulares_fw-la ritus_fw-la non_fw-la proponuntur_fw-la at_o dicimus_fw-la omne_fw-la quae_fw-la necessaria_fw-la sunt_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la vitam_fw-la spectent_fw-la apertè_fw-la &_o abundè_fw-la in_o scripture_n explicari_fw-la now_o as_o 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as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v episcopal_a and_o to_o maintain_v those_o several_a officer_n in_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v institute_v and_o therefore_o you_o infer_v you_o may_v have_v more_o ground_n to_o question_v this_o government_n of_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n i_o answer_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o be_v full_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n page_n 17_o and_o 18._o with_o a_o account_n of_o what_o have_v be_v write_v and_o do_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n for_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n and_o against_o the_o popular_a independent_a way_n which_o be_v more_o than_o you_o once_o in_o this_o reason_n hint_v but_o suppose_v that_o in_o former_a write_n of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n danaeus_n junius_n zeppâ—…rus_n gersom_a bucerus_n dr_n reynolds_n parker_n there_o have_v not_o be_v much_o set_o and_o direct_o insist_v on_o and_o with_o strength_n to_o prove_v the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n 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exception_n lay_v into_o all_o apolog._n man_n thought_n against_o we_o and_o our_o opinion_n be_v that_o in_o such_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o there_o be_v no_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o grossâ—…_n no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v thereby_o no_o room_n for_o complaint_n no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n schism_n etc._n etc._n but_o every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n we_o have_v through_o the_o good_a providence_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o from_o the_o avow_a declaration_n of_o our_o judgement_n among_o our_o church_n mutual_o during_o our_o exile_n and_o that_o also_o confirm_v by_o the_o most_o solemn_a instance_n of_o our_o practice_n wherewith_o to_o vindicate_v ourselves_o and_o way_n in_o this_o 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partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n the_o church_n offend_v may_n and_o aught_o upon_o the_o impenitency_n of_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n against_o they_o of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o until_o they_o do_v repent_v and_o further_o to_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o further_a authority_n or_o proceed_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a of_o one_o or_o many_o sister_n church_n towards_o another_o whole_a church_n or_o church_n offend_v either_o the_o scripture_n do_v holdforth_o or_o can_v rational_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a cognisance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o
be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v not_o then_o nor_o do_v yet_o see_v and_o likewise_o we_o do_v then_o suppose_v and_o do_v yet_o that_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o other_o church_n offend_v together_o with_o this_o other_o that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v final_o offend_v to_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o withdraw_n from_o they_o while_o impenitent_a ac_fw-la unworthy_a to_o hold_v forth_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n these_o principle_n be_v receive_v and_o general_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o mutual_a duty_n as_o strict_o enjoin_v they_o by_o christ_n as_o any_o other_o that_o these_o will_v be_v as_o effectual_a mean_n through_o the_o blessing_n of_o christ_n to_o awe_v and_o preserve_v church_n and_o their_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n as_o that_o other_o of_o claim_n to_o 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heart_n of_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o any_o we_o have_v be_v present_a at_o it_o be_v open_o and_o public_o process_v in_o a_o speech_n that_o be_v the_o preface_n to_o that_o discussion_n to_o this_o effect_n that_o it_o be_v the_o most_o to_o be_v abhor_v maxim_n that_o any_o religion_n have_v ever_o make_v profession_n of_o and_o therefore_o of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o contradictory_n and_o dishonourable_a unto_o that_o of_o christianity_n that_o a_o single_a and_o particular_a society_n of_o man_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o pretend_v to_o be_v endow_v with_o a_o power_n from_o christ_n to_o judge_v they_o that_o be_v of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o society_n within_o themselves_o shall_v further_o arrogate_v unto_o themselves_o a_o exemption_n from_o give_v account_n or_o be_v censurable_a by_o any_o other_o either_o christian_a magistrate_n above_o they_o or_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o so_o far_o be_v our_o judgement_n from_o that_o 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apology_n be_v contain_v the_o four_o and_o five_o of_o those_o five_o forementioned_a head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o i_o shall_v answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v upon_o your_o three_o and_o last_o instance_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o church_n the_o scope_n of_o which_o four_o head_n be_v to_o answer_v and_o take_v off_o a_o common_a objection_n bring_v against_o your_o way_n the_o strength_n of_o which_o answer_n be_v make_v up_o of_o those_o part_n and_o stand_v in_o these_o particular_n first_o in_o lay_v down_o your_o own_o principle_n which_o you_o hold_v in_o such_o a_o case_n second_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o those_o principle_n occasion_v upon_o a_o offence_n commit_v in_o one_o of_o your_o church_n which_o story_n you_o brief_o relate_v three_o the_o success_n and_o effectualness_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o your_o principle_n illustrate_v by_o a_o instance_n now_o for_o that_o common_a
exception_n lay_v into_o all_o man_n thought_n against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n it_o be_v both_o a_o just_a and_o strong_a argument_n against_o it_o and_o that_o which_o many_o of_o your_o way_n when_o it_o have_v be_v object_v to_o they_o have_v confess_v there_o be_v no_o remedy_n nor_o help_v in_o such_o case_n but_o advice_n and_o counsel_n all_o must_v be_v leave_v to_o christ_n christ_n will_v take_v care_n of_o his_o own_o way_n they_o have_v not_o find_v out_o this_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n which_o you_o have_v here_o propound_v but_o i_o shall_v labour_v to_o make_v evident_a that_o all_o you_o bring_v by_o way_n of_o answer_n in_o declaration_n of_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n do_v not_o satisfy_v this_o objection_n and_o first_o for_o your_o judgement_n in_o the_o principle_n you_o hold_v and_o lie_v down_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v no_o scripture_n ground_n nor_o primitive_a pattern_n for_o such_o principle_n and_o such_o a_o way_n in_o such_o case_n second_o beside_o that_o these_o principle_n have_v no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n and_o so_o they_o be_v no_o allow_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n nor_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n nor_o powerful_a effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o first_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v wise_a man_n that_o in_o such_o a_o point_n as_o this_o be_v the_o main_a point_n of_o difference_n between_o you_o and_o the_o presbterians_n and_o at_o such_o a_o time_n as_o this_o you_o will_v bring_v the_o strong_a scripture_n and_o ground_n you_o have_v for_o your_o sacred_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n to_o be_v observe_v among_o all_o church_n namely_o of_o submission_n of_o churchrs_n and_o for_o that_o other_o principle_n of_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o 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for_o it_o and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o contend_v for_o such_o a_o government_n wherein_o yourselves_o can_v deny_v but_o have_v fall_v out_o strange_a miscarriage_n and_o you_o tell_v we_o a_o unhappy_a story_n for_o proof_n and_o yet_o the_o way_n and_o course_n you_o have_v substitute_v for_o remedy_n have_v neither_o example_n nor_o precept_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o practice_v any_o title_n of_o all_o that_o you_o relate_v to_o we_o and_o beside_o that_o the_o course_n prescribe_v by_o you_o be_v not_o command_v in_o the_o word_n it_o be_v no_o whit_n so_o rational_a nor_o conducible_a to_o the_o end_v you_o appoint_v it_o for_o as_o we_o will_v show_v present_o now_o for_o the_o scripture_n bring_v by_o you_o the_o first_o be_v 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o give_v none_o offence_n neither_o to_o the_o jew_n nor_o to_o the_o gentile_n nor_o to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n where_o first_o the_o reader_n may_v observe_v you_o alter_v the_o text_n put_v church_n of_o god_n instead_o of_o church_n of_o god_n and_o than_o you_o add_v they_o live_v among_o the_o alteration_n i_o suppose_v you_o make_v upon_o this_o ground_n for_o fear_v this_o text_n in_o the_o read_n of_o it_o shall_v hint_n that_o truth_n how_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o scripture_n be_v take_v for_o more_o than_o one_o particular_a congregation_n the_o addition_n they_o live_v among_o to_o make_v it_o a_o seem_a ground_n for_o church_n in_o a_o vicinity_n whereas_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n general_o all_o the_o church_n whether_o we_o live_v among_o they_o or_o far_o from_o they_o and_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o this_o place_n be_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o that_o particular_a offence_n which_o may_v arise_v to_o some_o corinthian_n from_o eat_v meat_n sacrifice_v to_o idol_n have_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v sacrifice_v to_o idol_n to_o lay_v down_o a_o general_a rule_n to_o all_o christian_n against_o give_v offence_n to_o any_o 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where_o do_v this_o scripture_n speak_v and_o how_o do_v it_o affirm_v that_o if_o either_o church_n or_o particular_a christian_n do_v practice_v thing_n that_o offend_v other_o church_n they_o who_o be_v offend_v have_v power_n and_o authority_n to_o send_v to_o they_o and_o to_o call_v they_o to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o that_o such_o who_o be_v challenge_v to_o offend_v must_v submit_v to_o such_o a_o judicial_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n in_o this_o text_n there_o be_v no_o more_o say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n then_o of_o the_o jew_n and_o gentile_n who_o must_v not_o be_v offend_v neither_o and_o will_v you_o allow_v jew_n and_o gentile_n offend_v by_o thing_n do_v in_o your_o church_n to_o call_v your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o you_o must_v submit_v this_o text_n reach_v to_o church_n that_o live_v in_o other_o country_n and_o unto_o particular_a christian_n though_o they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o such_o institute_v church_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o so_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o text_n we_o ought_v to_o give_v they_o no_o offence_n but_o will_v you_o grant_v that_o church_n of_o other_o country_n and_o kingdom_n may_v call_v church_n in_o another_o kingdom_n to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o send_v their_o messenger_n to_o question_v they_o and_o thereupon_o pronounce_v sentence_n of_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o or_o that_o every_o particular_a man_n offend_v may_v call_v church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o hear_v and_o trial_n i_o will_v give_v you_o one_o instance_n i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o great_a rent_n and_o difference_n that_o be_v betwixt_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n and_o at_o mr_n simpson_n set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o great_a bitterness_n betwixt_o those_o church_n and_o i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n for_o let_v pass_v that_o schism_n and_o all_o those_o difference_n never_o question_v it_o especial_o question_v mr_n bridge_n church_n now_o have_v i_o a_o power_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o precept_n to_o call_v both_o you_o and_o your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o to_o require_v of_o you_o a_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n and_o be_v you_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o it_o answer_v i_o this_o question_n in_o your_o reply_n and_o you_o shall_v see_v what_o i_o will_v say_v to_o you_o in_o my_o rejoinder_n for_o that_o other_o scripture_n 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o othâ—…_n man_n sin_n that_o be_v speak_v to_o timothy_n in_o regard_n of_o his_o authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o chapter_n and_o the_o immediate_a precedent_a word_n show_v
difference_n what_o if_o the_o messenger_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o hear_v and_o examine_v differ_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o difference_n and_o offence_n in_o the_o church_n â—…ending_v and_o about_o the_o sentence_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o to_o be_v commend_v to_o the_o offend_a party_n yea_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n themselves_o upon_o return_n make_v by_o the_o messenger_n how_o they_o find_v matter_n differ_v also_o one_o of_o the_o church_n offend_v be_v of_o one_o mind_n and_o the_o other_o church_n offend_v of_o another_o mind_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o now_o for_o miscarriage_n what_o relief_n for_o a_o person_n injure_v or_o what_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n 13._o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n and_o in_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n â—…hat_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a what_o shall_v become_v of_o some_o innocent_a godly_a person_n in_o that_o church_n renounce_v and_o protest_v against_o must_v they_o be_v renounce_v communion_n with_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o the_o case_n where_o some_o in_o a_o church_n may_v be_v free_a from_o the_o error_n and_o evil_n which_o the_o great_a number_n be_v guilty_a of_o which_o you_o account_v the_o church_n must_v they_o be_v debar_v of_o all_o christian_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n offend_v and_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v to_o you_o speak_v nothing_o here_o in_o this_o case_n nor_o take_v no_o care_n for_o they_o but_o wrap_v up_o all_o alike_o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n must_v the_o innocent_a party_n now_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v separate_a and_o withdraw_v from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o renounce_v communion_n too_o as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n offend_v what_o if_o all_o their_o maintenance_n and_o livelihood_n depend_v in_o live_v in_o that_o place_n so_o that_o if_o they_o withdraw_v from_o they_o they_o must_v either_o live_v without_o public_a ordinance_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o if_o they_o come_v away_o ruin_n themselves_o and_o family_n what_o also_o if_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v the_o wife_n be_v one_o of_o the_o innocent_a person_n in_o that_o church_n but_o the_o husband_n of_o the_o number_n of_o they_o that_o persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n the_o son_n and_o daughter_n among_o the_o innocent_a the_o father_n and_o mother_n among_o the_o offender_n what_o must_v the_o wife_n and_o child_n renounce_v communion_n with_o their_o husband_n and_o parent_n and_o now_o either_o live_v without_o the_o ordinance_n there_o or_o else_o go_v away_o from_o their_o husband_n and_o pareâ—…ts_n to_o some_o other_o church_n 〈◊〉_d and_o in_o your_o draw_v up_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n against_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n will_v you_o in_o the_o gross_a do_v it_o or_o will_v you_o signify_v and_o declare_v all_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o remain_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a in_o such_o church_n with_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o be_v free_a from_o those_o error_n and_o offence_n lest_o you_o shall_v bring_v all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v unto_o into_o sin_n and_o a_o snare_n pray_v resolve_v these_o case_n with_o many_o such_o which_o by_o these_o now_o hint_v you_o may_v foresee_v will_v fall_v out_o in_o your_o principle_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n three_o for_o the_o success_n and_o effectualnes_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o answer_v 1._o suppose_v the_o particular_a instance_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v to_o have_v have_v a_o good_a effect_n as_o you_o relate_v in_o your_o two_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o rottendam_fw-la yet_o it_o follow_v not_o it_o be_v a_o powerful_a and_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v church_n for_o a_o course_n may_v prevail_v in_o one_o and_o take_v with_o one_o and_o yet_o have_v no_o rationality_n to_o carry_v it_o in_o other_o for_o though_o this_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v submit_v to_o they_o of_o arnheim_n who_o be_v of_o note_n for_o part_n quality_n etc._n etc._n yet_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o these_o will_v to_o some_o other_o particular_a church_n who_o have_v challenge_v they_o and_o whether_o these_o man_n will_v also_o at_o all_o time_n have_v there_o not_o be_v something_o cast_v in_o the_o balance_n before_o hint_v 2._o take_v the_o best_a that_o come_v of_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n between_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o that_o of_o rotterdam_n namely_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v acknowledge_v their_o offence_n in_o depose_v mr_n ward_n and_o restore_v he_o to_o his_o place_n again_o it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a satisfaction_n for_o the_o loss_n of_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n for_o so_o long_a a_o time_n and_o for_o all_o the_o suffering_n of_o he_o and_o his_o family_n if_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v be_v enjoin_v or_o have_v order_v themselves_o to_o have_v pay_v he_o the_o profit_n of_o his_o place_n or_o to_o have_v give_v he_o a_o good_a sum_n of_o money_n on_o their_o fast_a day_n this_o have_v be_v some_o relief_n for_o a_o wrongful_a sentence_n and_o a_o person_n injure_v thereby_o and_o may_v have_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o have_v preserve_v they_o from_o do_v the_o like_a for_o time_n to_o come_v but_o for_o a_o minister_n and_o his_o family_n to_o be_v so_o long_o in_o a_o sad_a condition_n without_o all_o maintenance_n in_o a_o strange_a land_n and_o in_o the_o issue_n for_o they_o who_o do_v this_o to_o acknowledge_v only_o their_o sinful_a aberration_n and_o the_o minister_n thus_o suffer_v to_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n too_o and_o both_o of_o they_o to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o alike_o here_o be_v a_o poor_a remedy_n â—…ay_o as_o you_o relate_v it_o yourselves_o it_o be_v very_o unjust_a and_o injurious_a for_o in_o some_o passage_n of_o your_o narration_n you_o acknowledge_v the_o fault_n on_o the_o church_n side_n as_o in_o page_n 16._o and_o in_o page_n â—…0_n and_o that_o mr_n ward_n be_v wrong_v and_o yet_o they_o be_v both_o equal_o order_v to_o a_o public_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o solemn_a fast_v the_o delinquent_n and_o the_o innocent_a alike_o deal_v with_o be_v this_o the_o fruit_n of_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o non-communion_n be_v this_o the_o real_a evidence_n and_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effectual_a success_n of_o such_o a_o course_n hold_v by_o church_n in_o such_o a_o case_n and_o be_v this_o the_o issue_n of_o all_o that_o send_v to_o and_o solemn_a assembly_n and_o the_o agitation_n of_o so_o many_o day_n public_a hear_n by_o deposition_n of_o witness_n so_o large_o and_o formal_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21_o i_o wonder_v wise_a man_n as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v shall_v not_o see_v into_o the_o weakness_n and_o folly_n of_o your_o own_o practice_n in_o this_o case_n but_o tell_v such_o a_o story_n so_o to_o shame_v yourselves_o you_o shall_v never_o have_v trouble_v yourselves_o to_o have_v come_v so_o many_o dutch_a mile_n not_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n nor_o make_v so_o great_a ado_n for_o many_o day_n of_o depose_v witness_n etc._n etc._n as_o yourselves_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21._o to_o have_v put_v together_o the_o innocent_a and_o delinquent_n and_o let_v i_o here_o put_v you_o this_o dilemma_n either_o mr_n ward_n be_v unjust_o depose_v from_o his_o ministry_n both_o material_o and_o formal_o upon_o unsufficient_a cause_n as_o the_o matter_n for_o such_o a_o censure_n and_o for_o the_o way_n and_o manner_n of_o it_o as_o be_v too_o sudden_a before_o admonition_n and_o before_o fast_v and_o prayer_n precede_v etc._n etc._n 〈◊〉_d be_v just_o depose_v by_o the_o church_n if_o unjust_o in_o both_o these_o respect_n as_o your_o narration_n imply_v page_n 16._o why_o be_v mr._n ward_n put_v upon_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n to_o the_o church_n and_o put_v in_o the_o same_o condition_n with_o they_o who_o have_v deal_v so_o unjust_o both_o material_o and_o formal_o and_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o a_o mean_n to_o hinder_v the_o church_n repentance_n and_o humiliation_n for_o their_o sin_n when_o they_o shall_v be_v put_v but_o to_o do_v as_o mr_n ward_n but_o if_o mr_n ward_n be_v just_o dopose_v why_o be_v the_o church_n then_o put_v upon_o public_a acknowledgement_n and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o before_o god_n and_o man_n and_o whether_o be_v mr_n bridge_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n enjoin_v to_o confess_v his_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o in_o that_o he_o do_v not_o interpose_v his_o authority_n and_o interest_n in_o the_o church_n nor_o speak_v a_o
right_n and_o as_o magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n over_o family-government_n to_o appoint_v who_o i_o shall_v admit_v into_o my_o family_n etc._n etc._n much_o less_o have_v they_o power_n over_o christ_n family_n this_o union_n of_o a_o church_n be_v a_o spiritual_a right_n which_o be_v transcendent_o out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o the_o magistrate_n authority_n and_o the_o apostle_n teach_v the_o saint_n to_o do_v it_o without_o ask_v leave_n of_o the_o magistrate_n yea_o not_o to_o for_o sake_n it_o though_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o heb._n 10._o 25._o now_o i_o believe_v you_o can_v show_v i_o any_o principle_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n nor_o quote_v i_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o presbyterian_a that_o cut_v short_a the_o power_n of_o the_o orthodox_n protestant_n magistrate_n about_o congregation_n and_o assembly_n as_o this_o do_v 4._o the_o presbyterian_o do_v grant_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o public_a exercise_n of_o the_o ministry_n that_o it_o be_v so_o far_o subject_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o magistrate_n that_o without_o his_o approbative_a authority_n or_o confirm_a authority_n or_o his_o toleration_n of_o it_o it_o ought_v not_o by_o the_o church_n to_o be_v public_o begin_v in_o his_o territory_n nor_o practise_a dâ—…decimae_fw-la apollonius_n of_o zealand_n who_o write_v a_o answer_n to_o vedellius_fw-la by_o the_o command_n of_o the_o waâ—…achrian_a classis_fw-la be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a and_o in_o that_o answer_n must_v needs_o show_v it_o upon_o occasion_n of_o vedelius_fw-la give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n yet_o he_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n this_o power_n about_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o ministry_n now_o whether_o your_o principle_n allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n let_v your_o practice_n speak_v about_o your_o make_v minister_n and_o exercise_v of_o it_o as_o you_o do_v 5._o the_o presbyterian_o grant_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n in_o private_a meeting_n as_o well_o as_o in_o public_a church_n over_o exercise_n there_o as_o well_o as_o those_o in_o the_o public_a place_n so_o 4._o voetius_fw-la we_o reject_v that_o novelty_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n that_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n in_o private_a meeting_n but_o only_o in_o public_a temple_n now_o whether_o you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n concern_v your_o private_a meeting_n or_o only_o over_o the_o public_a meeting_n or_o whether_o you_o do_v not_o with_o the_o arminian_n make_v the_o ground_n of_o this_o power_n in_o the_o magistrate_n the_o grant_n of_o a_o public_a meetingplace_n i_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v from_o you_o but_o by_o all_o this_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o these_o particular_n you_o do_v not_o give_v more_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n for_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v what_o you_o give_v and_o not_o only_o so_o but_o they_o give_v that_o which_o you_o deny_v and_o so_o give_v more_o than_o you_o but_o brethren_n wherein_o and_o in_o what_o do_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o have_v you_o express_v wherein_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o in_o what_o their_o principle_n be_v defective_a and_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o you_o have_v deal_v fair_o and_o ingenious_o and_o a_o man_n may_v have_v know_v where_o to_o have_v have_v you_o and_o how_o to_o have_v answer_v you_o but_o to_o accuse_v thus_o in_o the_o general_a and_o not_o to_o signify_v the_o crime_n be_v not_o just_a but_o as_o you_o do_v throughout_o your_o apology_n under_o the_o figge-leaves_a of_o dark_a doubtful_a general_a speech_n cover_v your_o opinion_n lest_o your_o nakedness_n shall_v appear_v so_o in_o this_o place_n but_o not_o to_o let_v you_o go_v away_o thus_o but_o that_o i_o may_v drive_v you_o out_o of_o your_o hole_n and_o thicket_n and_o divest_v you_o of_o your_o cover_n and_o that_o i_o may_v a_o little_a take_v off_o the_o odium_n and_o suspicion_n that_o presbyterial_a government_n may_v lie_v under_o among_o many_o who_o know_v not_o their_o principle_n by_o reason_n of_o this_o passage_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o will_v propound_v some_o question_n to_o you_o to_o draw_v out_o what_o you_o hold_v about_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n and_o to_o give_v some_o further_a light_n for_o the_o present_a of_o the_o presbyterian_a principle_n concern_v the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n referve_v the_o particular_a lay_v down_o what_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n and_o what_o not_o till_o my_o rejoynder_n shall_v come_v out_o to_o your_o reply_n 1._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n about_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n be_v a_o power_n extrinsecall_v objective_n coercive_a indirect_a mediate_a accidental_a and_o consequent_a or_o spiritual_a intrinsical_n formal_a proper_a and_o antecedent_n now_o concern_v the_o first_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v as_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o you_o nay_o more_o as_o have_v be_v partly_o show_v already_o but_o for_o the_o other_o the_o spiritual_a intrinsical_v formal_a etc._n etc._n if_o you_o ascribe_v that_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o i_o think_v you_o do_v not_o nor_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o yield_v it_o unless_o according_a to_o your_o second_o great_a principle_n lay_v down_o in_o the_o 10._o and_o 11._o page_n you_o be_v since_o the_o assembly_n to_o please_v the_o parliament_n the_o more_o as_o you_o may_v imagine_v come_v off_o from_o your_o former_a judgement_n and_o practice_n i_o do_v refer_v you_o for_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o three_o most_o learned_a select_a disputation_n of_o ecclesiastica_fw-la voetius_fw-la and_o unto_o debet_fw-la waâ—…us_o excellent_a answer_n to_o the_o tractate_n of_o uttengobardus_fw-la so_o strong_a that_o the_o author_n can_v never_o reply_v again_o though_o in_o a_o book_n publish_v he_o promise_v to_o do_v it_o and_o unto_o circasacra_fw-la apollonius_n learned_a answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la dissertation_n 2._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o the_o civil_a power_n do_v contain_v the_o ecclesiastical_a formal_o and_o eminent_o so_o as_o that_o power_n can_v give_v and_o produce_v the_o other_o or_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o intrinsical_a dependence_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a upon_o the_o political_a in_o their_o nature_n form_n and_o exercise_v of_o they_o or_o whether_o there_o do_v not_o reside_v in_o the_o church_n all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o the_o build_n up_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o salvation_n of_o man_n even_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n 3._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o in_o write_v this_o passage_n of_o your_o apology_n you_o consider_v and_o remember_v all_o those_o difference_n and_o distinction_n give_v by_o so_o many_o excellent_a divine_n as_o junius_n zanchius_n amesius_n etc._n etc._n concern_v those_o two_o power_n civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o their_o administration_n and_o in_o particular_a among_o the_o rest_n that_o difference_n take_v from_o their_o 4._o matter_n and_o the_o subject_n wherein_o they_o make_v the_o subject_n of_o political_a administration_n to_o be_v humane_a thing_n and_o matter_n but_o of_o ecclesiastical_a to_o be_v divine_a and_o sacred_a and_o if_o so_o whether_o do_v not_o presbyterian_o according_a to_o those_o difference_n and_o distinction_n which_o distinction_n be_v acknowledge_v also_o by_o yourselves_o as_o by_o m._n robinson_n and_o by_o some_o of_o you_o in_o your_o print_a book_n as_o i_o remember_v give_v the_o magistrate_n that_o power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n which_o be_v give_v he_o in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 4._o consider_v all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o right_n be_v common_o by_o divine_n reduce_v to_o a_o threefold_a head_n namely_o potestas_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o of_o these_o power_n do_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o or_o in_o all_o of_o they_o do_v you_o give_v more_o or_o do_v you_o not_o for_o the_o present_a that_o power_n you_o seem_v to_o give_v the_o magistrate_n and_o intimate_v it_o that_o you_o give_v more_o than_o the_o presâ—…eriall_a principle_n allow_v as_o may_v be_v gather_v from_o the_o follow_a word_n in_o p._n 19_o &_o from_o those_o word_n in_o p._n 17._o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o a_o other_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a coguizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o must_v fall_v under_o the_o last_o head_n of_o the_o power_n of_o judge_v and_o determine_v in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a and_o that_o upon_o
so_o there_o be_v need_n of_o synod_n for_o the_o govern_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o the_o prevent_n of_o herâ—…fies_v in_o a_o word_n all_o thing_n be_v loose_a in_o independent_a government_n every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n if_o they_o like_v not_o any_o church_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n they_o may_v go_v to_o another_o nay_o a_o few_o in_o a_o church_n dislike_a that_o church_n may_v go_v make_v a_o church_n themselves_o and_o make_v minister_n and_o hold_v what_o they_o will_v as_o mr_n sympson_n do_v with_o some_o few_o more_o and_o since_o some_o have_v rend_v from_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o he_o from_o mr_n bridge_n the_o rule_v they_o go_v by_o be_v loose_a nothing_o be_v fix_v nor_o certain_a among_o they_o and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o settledness_n of_o mind_n nor_o consistence_n of_o principle_n in_o that_o way_n simple_a and_o well_o mean_v people_n according_a to_o their_o principle_n must_v be_v draw_v till_o they_o come_v to_o that_o to_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n nor_o minister_n at_o all_o yet_o upon_o the_o earth_n which_o principle_n begin_v to_o take_v and_o spread_v already_o among_o many_o independent_o in_o a_o word_n that_o liberty_n and_o looseness_n which_o be_v from_o first_o to_o last_o in_o independent_a government_n hold_v no_o authoritative_a ecclesiastical_a power_n out_o of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o remedy_n or_o prevent_v any_o matter_n and_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n be_v on_o many_o ground_n and_o principle_n of_o they_o so_o slight_a and_o weak_a as_o the_o only_a subject_n of_o excommunication_n be_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n than_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n as_o that_o two_o or_o three_o saint_n or_o now_o of_o late_a six_o or_o seven_o may_v withdraw_v from_o church_n defective_a and_o impure_a and_o make_v church_n and_o choose_v all_o officer_n etc._n etc._n with_o other_o like_a so_o that_o what_o need_v they_o care_v then_o for_o that_o church_n of_o which_o they_o be_v member_n though_o cast_v out_o see_v they_o can_v make_v new_a and_o have_v all_o to_o their_o own_o mind_n be_v chief_a there_o be_v a_o dangerous_a temptation_n even_o to_o sober_a man_n to_o make_v they_o presume_v to_o broach_v that_o practise_v that_o which_o else_o they_o will_v never_o have_v do_v but_o in_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v consistence_n unity_n and_o strength_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o a_o hundred_o year_n visible_a experience_n of_o god_n blessing_n from_o heaven_n upon_o they_o there_o be_v also_o a_o certainty_n and_o fixedness_n of_o rule_n agree_v on_o both_o for_o particular_a congregation_n for_o class_n and_o synod_n there_o be_v a_o aw_v and_o preserve_v of_o officer_n and_o people_n in_o their_o 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occasion_n for_o draw_v up_o such_o answer_n to_o it_o and_o you_o can_v blame_v none_o but_o yourselves_o as_o will_v upon_o necessity_n discover_v and_o lay_v open_a both_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o opinion_n more_o than_o ever_o else_o there_o will_v have_v be_v any_o pretence_n of_o ground_n to_o have_v do_v it_o as_o for_o refer_v the_o vindication_n of_o your_o person_n to_o god_n and_o a_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o by_o man_n i_o answer_v that_o without_o great_a repentance_n for_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n and_o some_o other_o practice_n since_o your_o return_n into_o england_n in_o stead_n of_o god_n vindicate_v your_o person_n you_o can_v but_o expect_v god_n will_v visit_v you_o and_o whether_o hereafter_o man_n may_v have_v occasion_n to_o vindicate_v you_o upon_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o i_o refer_v that_o to_o time_n but_o for_o the_o experience_n they_o have_v have_v of_o you_o this_o parliament_n before_o the_o write_n of_o this_o apology_n 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because_o in_o the_o title_n of_o the_o book_n and_o in_o other_o place_n you_o speak_v of_o yourselves_o as_o memberâ—…_n of_o the_o assembly_n but_o if_o you_o add_v it_o here_o as_o by_o way_n of_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o great_a favour_n and_o good_a pleasure_n of_o the_o house_n to_o make_v you_o so_o be_v member_n of_o other_o church_n than_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o have_v receive_v another_o ministry_n and_o never_o purpose_v to_o be_v bind_v by_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o assembly_n then_o there_o may_v be_v some_o reason_n of_o this_o addition_n and_o whereas_o our_o silence_n upon_o all_o the_o forementioned_a ground_n for_o which_o we_o know_v we_o can_v never_o lose_v esteem_n with_o good_a and_o apolog._n wise_a man_n have_v be_v by_o the_o ill_a interpretation_n of_o some_o impute_v either_o to_o our_o consciousness_n of_o the_o badness_n and_o weakness_n of_o our_o cause_n or_o to_o our_o unabilitie_n to_o maintain_v what_o we_o assert_v in_o diffâ—…rence_n from_o other_o or_o answer_v what_o have_v be_v write_v by_o other_o we_o shall_v with_o all_o modesty_n only_o present_v this_o to_o all_o man_n apprehensionâ—…_n in_o confutation_n of_o it_o that_o what_o ever_o the_o truth_n and_o justness_n of_o our_o cause_n may_v prove_v to_o be_v or_o how_o slendâ—…r_o our_o abilitiâ—…s_n to_o defend_v it_o yet_o we_o pretend_v at_o least_o to_o so_o much_o wisdom_n that_o we_o will_v never_o have_v reserve_v ourselves_o for_o but_o rather_o by_o all_o way_n have_v decline_v this_o theatre_n of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o judicious_a and_o severe_a a_o assembly_n of_o so_o many_o able_a learned_a and_o grave_a divine_n where_o much_o of_o the_o piety_n wisdom_n and_o learning_n of_o two_o kingdom_n be_v meet_v in_o one_o honour_v and_o assist_v with_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o worthy_n of_o both_o house_n at_o all_o debate_n as_o often_o as_o they_o please_v to_o vouchsafe_v their_o presence_n as_o the_o stage_n whereon_o first_o we_o will_v bring_v forth_o into_o public_a view_n our_o tenet_n if_o false_a and_o counterfâ—…it_a together_o with_o our_o own_o folly_n and_o weakness_n we_o will_v much_o rather_o â—…ave_v chosâ—…n_v to_o have_v be_v uâ—…nting_v they_o to_o the_o multitude_n apt_a to_o be_v seduce_v which_o we_o have_v have_v these_o three_o year_n opportunity_n to_o have_v do_v but_o in_o a_o conscientious_a regard_n have_v to_o the_o orderly_a and_o peaceable_a way_n of_o search_v out_o truth_n and_o reform_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n we_o have_v adventure_v ourselves_o upon_o this_o way_n of_o god_n wise_o assume_v by_o the_o providence_n of_o the_o state_n and_o therein_o also_o upon_o all_o sort_n of_o disadvantage_n which_o we_o can_v not_o but_o foresee_v both_o of_o number_n ability_n of_o learning_n authority_n the_o stream_n of_o public_a interest_n trust_v god_n both_o with_o ourselves_o and_o his_o own_o truth_n as_o he_o shall_v be_v please_v to_o manage_v it_o by_o we_o i_o answer_v whereas_o you_o speak_v of_o silence_n upon_o all_o the_o forementioned_a ground_n you_o have_v not_o be_v silent_a in_o the_o pulpit_n and_o among_o the_o people_n but_o in_o many_o sermon_n and_o in_o divers_a congregation_n and_o at_o sundry_a time_n most_o of_o you_o have_v both_o plain_o particular_o and_o at_o large_a beside_o more_o dark_o and_o general_o preach_v your_o churchway_n so_o that_o what_o you_o will_v infer_v be_v deny_v you_o for_o have_v you_o indeed_o be_v silent_a among_o the_o people_n and_o where_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v keep_v silence_n you_o can_v not_o have_v lose_v esteem_n with_o good_a and_o wise_a man_n but_o it_o have_v be_v your_o praise_n with_o god_n and_o man_n but_o this_o be_v that_o i_o charge_v you_o with_o and_o for_o which_o you_o may_v well_o suffer_v in_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a and_o wise_a man_n that_o you_o have_v be_v very_o silent_a and_o reserve_v where_o you_o shall_v have_v speak_v and_o have_v be_v desire_v and_o where_o the_o free_a and_o plain_o declare_v your_o judgement_n will_v not_o have_v prejudice_v the_o forementioned_a ground_n but_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n where_o you_o shall_v have_v be_v silent_a and_o your_o speak_v can_v tend_v to_o no_o other_o end_n but_o to_o diâ—…union_n in_o divide_v the_o godly_a party_n and_o to_o the_o increase_n of_o your_o own_o party_n there_o you_o have_v be_v free_a to_o speak_v out_o but_o to_o your_o godly_a and_o learned_a brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n differ_v from_o you_o you_o never_o bring_v in_o a_o narrative_a of_o your_o tenet_n as_o be_v desire_v and_o you_o promise_v nor_o ever_o lay_v down_o clear_o your_o position_n with_o the_o ground_n of_o they_o as_o who_o but_o you_o will_v in_o three_o year_n time_n have_v do_v and_o have_v desire_a satisfaction_n but_o you_o still_o decline_a dispute_n and_o reason_n upon_o the_o point_n in_o difference_n as_o upon_o that_o about_o form_n of_o prayer_n whereupon_o the_o meeting_n among_o minister_n be_v lay_v aside_o for_o a_o time_n you_o never_o answer_v any_o of_o the_o book_n write_v by_o man_n of_o much_o worth_n and_o learning_n and_o with_o much_o strength_n and_o moderation_n as_o yourselves_o confess_v but_o it_o be_v still_o give_v out_o by_o your_o follower_n upon_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o the_o book_n they_o shall_v be_v answer_v and_o that_o the_o question_n be_v mistake_v and_o you_o hold_v not_o so_o with_o such_o like_a put_v his_o you_o have_v decline_v give_v in_o your_o position_n and_o ground_n to_o some_o parliament_n man_n that_o desire_v they_o who_o promise_v to_o be_v ready_a to_o do_v any_o thing_n for_o you_o provide_v they_o may_v know_v what_o your_o way_n be_v and_o see_v your_o ground_n to_o consider_v of_o they_o whether_o they_o be_v according_a to_o scripture_n but_o now_o in_o pulpit_n and_o in_o house_n
to_o communion_n by_o the_o force_n of_o any_o sâ—…cular_a powâ—…r_n and_o give_v his_o reason_n there_o of_o the_o change_n of_o his_o judgement_n from_o what_o he_o former_o hold_v because_o now_o he_o have_v experience_n how_o much_o evil_n the_o toleration_n and_o suffering_n of_o they_o do_v as_o also_o how_o much_o the_o diligence_n of_o discipline_n will_v confer_v to_o the_o make_n of_o they_o better_o 4o._o beza_n in_o his_o epistle_n and_o other_o write_n speak_v much_o against_o toleration_n and_o the_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n plead_v for_o and_o answer_n to_o that_o whether_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n be_v to_o be_v permit_v no_o as_o this_o liberty_n be_v understand_v that_o be_v that_o every_o man_n may_v worship_n god_n after_o what_o manner_n he_o will_v himself_o for_o this_o be_v a_o mere_a diabolical_a opinion_n that_o every_o one_o be_v to_o be_v suffer_v that_o if_o he_o will_v he_o may_v perish_v and_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n he_o say_v of_o toleration_n this_o be_v that_o diabolical_a liberty_n which_o have_v fill_v polonia_n and_o transylvania_n with_o so_o many_o plague_n of_o opinion_n which_o otherwise_o else_o no_o country_n under_o the_o sun_n will_v have_v tolerate_v and_o in_o this_o epistle_n he_o tell_v he_o to_o who_o he_o write_v that_o which_o i_o perceive_v you_o call_v liberty_n of_o conscience_n but_o i_o on_o every_o side_n call_v a_o open_a destruction_n and_o ruin_n so_o in_o his_o confession_n of_o faith_n under_o that_o head_n of_o the_o office_n of_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n he_o speak_v thus_o officio_fw-la his_o office_n be_v to_o preserve_v the_o public_a peace_n and_o quietness_n now_o whereas_o that_o can_v be_v right_o do_v but_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n must_v flourish_v in_o the_o first_o place_n from_o whence_o flow_v all_o happiness_n it_o follow_v that_o nothing_o ought_v to_o be_v more_o look_v to_o by_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n they_o to_o have_v the_o church_n order_v 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antinomian_o 1â—…_n mr_n cotton_n the_o great_a divine_a in_o new-england_n and_o a_o precious_a man_n be_v against_o toleration_n and_o hold_v that_o man_n may_v be_v punish_v for_o their_o conscience_n as_o will_v appear_v by_o his_o letter_n to_o mr_n williams_n and_o mr_n williams_n answer_n both_o print_a and_o his_o exposition_n on_o the_o vial_n wherein_o he_o answer_v a_o objection_n but_o you_o will_v say_v conscience_n shall_v not_o be_v force_v etc._n etc._n he_o answer_v why_o do_v you_o think_v heretic_n be_v not_o as_o conscionable_a in_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o now_o if_o any_o man_n have_v a_o conscience_n to_o turn_v man_n from_o god_n he_o will_v have_v man_n of_o as_o much_o conscience_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o 5._o the_o magistrate_n toleration_n of_o error_n and_o new_a opinion_n be_v a_o kind_n of_o invitation_n to_o they_o a_o temptation_n and_o occasion_n of_o many_o reason_n fall_n who_o otherwise_o never_o will_v a_o snare_n to_o many_o a_o stumble_a 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etc._n etc._n be_v much_o be_v in_o a_o way_n to_o continue_v in_o it_o they_o have_v no_o necessity_n of_o harken_v to_o council_n or_o weigh_v argument_n but_o the_o denial_n of_o a_o toleration_n and_o by_o positive_a law_n command_v the_o contrary_a as_o it_o be_v a_o great_a preservative_n so_o it_o be_v a_o restorative_n and_o a_o mean_n of_o recover_v many_o when_o man_n see_v they_o can_v have_v their_o will_n they_o will_v consider_v a_o little_o better_a what_o they_o do_v as_o also_o review_v their_o former_a thought_n and_o so_o may_v be_v reduce_v yea_o multitude_n have_v bless_v god_n they_o have_v not_o be_v leave_v to_o their_o own_o liberty_n but_o that_o by_o severity_n of_o discipline_n mean_n have_v be_v use_v this_o evil_a of_o toleration_n and_o good_a of_o coaction_n by_o law_n have_v be_v see_v and_o approve_v of_o by_o long_a experience_n augustine_n that_o holy_a and_o learned_a father_n from_o the_o experience_n of_o this_o change_v his_o judgement_n about_o 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not_o deal_v fair_o in_o abridge_n the_o scripture_n and_o make_v your_o supreme_a rule_n so_o narrow_a as_o the_o act_n and_o epistle_n and_o i_o may_v just_o stand_v upon_o it_o to_o make_v you_o enlarge_v your_o rule_n to_o the_o book_n both_o of_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n yet_o well_o know_v the_o act_n of_o apostle_n and_o epistle_n will_v cast_v you_o i_o be_o well_o content_v and_o most_o ready_a at_o that_o weapon_n alone_o to_o try_v it_o with_o you_o and_o care_v not_o in_o the_o present_a controversy_n of_o the_o churchway_n as_o to_o let_v all_o other_o author_n so_o for_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o that_o part_n of_o the_o new_a too_o the_o gospel_n to_o stand_v by_o and_o if_o you_o can_v make_v good_a out_o of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o epistle_n by_o any_o apostolic_a direction_n pattern_n or_o example_n of_o those_o primitive_a church_n direct_v by_o the_o apostle_n many_o thing_n you_o practise_v and_o maintain_v as_o ordination_n of_o 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complete_o sufficient_a to_o all_o end_n and_o use_n for_o which_o it_o be_v intend_v when_o a_o part_n or_o part_n may_v not_o suffice_v and_o that_o scripture_n which_o you_o allude_v unto_o for_o proof_n 2_o tim._n 3._o v._n 16_o 17._o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n and_o not_o of_o a_o part_n only_o the_o papist_n will_v have_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o that_o text_n to_o signify_v non_fw-la totam_fw-la sed_fw-la omnem_fw-la scripturam_fw-la and_o so_o will_v give_v that_o praise_n not_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o to_o particular_a part_n of_o it_o learned_a 3._o chamier_n snewe_v the_o contrary_a how_o that_o the_o whole_a scripture_n be_v here_o rather_o to_o be_v understand_v and_o he_o prove_v it_o by_o a_o threefold_a argument_n and_o in_o this_o great_a question_n between_o we_o and_o the_o papist_n a_o scriptura_fw-la christianum_fw-la perfâ—…ctum_fw-la reddat_fw-la resolve_v the_o question_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o whole_a canon_n in_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o so_o do_v 14._o dr_n whitaker_n by_o which_o you_o may_v judge_v how_o unsufficient_a and_o short_a your_o first_o principle_n be_v be_v only_o a_o part_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o not_o the_o whole_a and_o you_o may_v observe_v the_o fallaciousnesse_n of_o your_o reason_n propound_v to_o argue_v from_o the_o whole_a to_o a_o part_n because_o the_o whole_a scripture_n have_v a_o complete_a sufficiency_n to_o make_v the_o church_n of_o god_n perfect_a therefore_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n have_v too_o second_o i_o do_v also_o adore_v the_o fullness_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v take_v from_o the_o scripture_n any_o thing_n god_n give_v unto_o they_o or_o that_o which_o in_o the_o scripture_n be_v attribute_v unto_o it_o but_o we_o must_v not_o give_v unto_o the_o scripture_n more_o than_o what_o god_n intend_v they_o 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shall_v clamour_v against_o any_o other_o art_n and_o way_n of_o war_n than_o what_o be_v practise_v there_o what_o will_v you_o reply_v to_o these_o man_n or_o what_o strength_n be_v there_o in_o such_o principle_n will_v not_o you_o answer_v they_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o scripture_n be_v perfect_a and_o how_o they_o must_v understand_v it_o man_n have_v often_o by_o give_v more_o to_o the_o most_o excellent_a creature_n and_o thing_n than_o the_o scripture_n allow_v fall_v into_o great_a error_n and_o mistake_n the_o papist_n and_o ubiquitary_n speak_v high_o of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o it_o be_v all_o in_o the_o way_n of_o magnify_v it_o and_o schuvenckfeldius_fw-la do_v boast_v himself_o to_o be_v the_o assertor_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n in_o heaven_n which_o other_o preacher_n neglect_v schuvenckâ—…ld_n or_o else_o oppose_v and_o yet_o all_o these_o hold_v great_a error_n about_o the_o body_n and_o humane_a nature_n of_o christ_n under_o 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godly_a protestant_a party_n and_o of_o much_o distract_n they_o and_o of_o make_v several_a interest_n whence_o have_v come_v all_o the_o rent_n and_o division_n to_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o godly_a protestant_a party_n all_o the_o â—…ets_n stopp_n and_o delay_n in_o the_o intend_a reformation_n but_o from_o you_o and_o by_o occasion_n and_o mean_n of_o you_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o name_n hold_v these_o opinion_n have_v the_o reputation_n of_o scholar_n and_o of_o excellent_a preacher_n whereby_o you_o be_v cry_v up_o of_o many_o and_o so_o much_o follow_v your_o interest_n and_o favour_n in_o too_o many_o considerable_a person_n have_v draw_v so_o much_o have_v it_o not_o be_v for_o your_o sake_n these_o rent_n and_o division_n have_v never_o come_v to_o this_o head_n there_o have_v not_o be_v that_o connivance_n nor_o such_o delay_n of_o settle_v government_n etc._n etc._n most_o of_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o way_n be_v in_o comparison_n contemptible_a both_o for_o name_n and_o gift_n and_o can_v not_o have_v do_v that_o hurt_n and_o why_o then_o in_o a_o time_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n of_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o the_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n and_o all_o little_a enough_o to_o effect_v that_o reformation_n intend_v and_o so_o long_o contend_v for_o against_o a_o common_a adversary_n that_o have_v both_o present_a possession_n to_o plead_v for_o itself_o power_n to_o support_v it_o and_o have_v enjoy_v a_o long_a continue_a settlement_n which_o have_v root_v it_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n have_v you_o do_v so_o much_o by_o preach_v and_o act_v to_o rend_v and_o divide_v the_o godly_a protestant_n party_n there_o be_v no_o absolute_a necessity_n just_a at_o that_o time_n when_o you_o do_v preach_v and_o stir_v for_o your_o way_n for_o you_o to_o have_v do_v so_o affirmative_n though_o they_o do_v bind_v semper_fw-la yet_o not_o add_v semper_fw-la there_o be_v great_a truth_n in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o reformation_n of_o 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unite_v the_o protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o agree_v in_o fundamental_a truth_n against_o popery_n and_o other_o heresy_n and_o to_o have_v that_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n as_o may_v prevent_v oppression_n and_o inconvenience_n which_o have_v former_o be_v i_o judge_v this_o ground_n second_v the_o former_a shall_v have_v be_v powerful_a with_o you_o to_o a_o deep_a silence_n and_o forbearance_n every_o particular_a branch_n of_o it_o speak_v strong_o to_o you_o to_o forbear_v what_o ever_o may_v any_o way_n be_v like_a to_o occasion_n or_o augment_v this_o unhappy_a difference_n nay_o almost_o every_o word_n in_o it_o â—…s_v a_o argument_n to_o command_v the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n what_o may_v not_o all_o these_o have_v wrought_v and_o than_o take_v in_o also_o that_o they_o have_v by_o their_o declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o they_o will_v have_v a_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n now_o what_o can_v you_o almost_o have_v wish_v more_o or_o what_o better_a security_n for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n a_o man_n will_v think_v all_o these_o may_v have_v command_v you_o not_o to_o have_v act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n and_o certain_o your_o fault_n be_v the_o great_a in_o do_v contrary_a and_o you_o be_v the_o more_o inexcusable_a have_v not_o this_o second_v the_o former_a yet_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o first_o be_v enough_o to_o have_v take_v ingenuous_a spirit_n but_o this_o second_n the_o first_o it_o be_v too_o bad_a that_o you_o go_v contrary_a to_o the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n as_o for_o those_o passage_n insert_v in_o this_o reason_n the_o parliament_n declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n profess_v their_o endeavour_n and_o 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as_o a_o calumny_n cast_v upon_o they_o to_o traduce_v their_o proceed_n they_o infuse_v into_o 1641._o the_o people_n that_o we_o mean_v to_o abolish_v all_o church-government_n and_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o own_o fancy_n for_o the_o service_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n absolve_v he_o of_o that_o obedience_n which_o he_o owe_v under_o god_n unto_o his_o majesty_n who_o we_o know_v to_o be_v entrust_v with_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n as_o well_o as_o with_o the_o temporal_a to_o regulate_v all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o such_o rule_n of_o order_n and_o discipline_n as_o be_v establish_v by_o parliament_n which_o be_v his_o great_a council_n in_o all_o affair_n both_o in_o church_n and_o state_n and_o we_o do_v here_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o our_o purpose_n or_o desire_v to_o let_v loose_a the_o golden_a reins_n of_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n to_o leave_v private_a person_n or_o particular_a 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unto_o the_o parliament_n to_o be_v there_o allow_v of_o and_o confirm_v and_o receive_v the_o stamp_n of_o authority_n thereby_o to_o find_v passage_n and_o obedience_n throughout_o the_o kingdom_n also_o i_o refer_v you_o to_o declaration_n both_o of_o lord_n and_o commons_o about_o uniformity_n in_o church-government_n worship_n etc._n etc._n intend_a by_o they_o and_o for_o the_o word_n as_o you_o express_v they_o here_o respect_v to_o tender_a conscience_n as_o may_v prevent_v oppression_n and_o inconvenience_n which_o have_v former_o be_v they_o interpret_v themselves_o imply_v a_o take_n away_o the_o ceremony_n and_o other_o offensive_a thing_n and_o a_o not_o enforce_v and_o enjoin_v subscription_n to_o all_o point_n in_o matter_n of_o order_n and_o external_a government_n as_o have_v former_o be_v but_o as_o for_o tolerate_v different_a church_n and_o a_o different_a form_n of_o church-government_n to_o be_v public_o exercise_v beside_o the_o establish_a as_o i_o do_v not_o 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the_o mutual_a strict_a engagement_n be_v declare_v null_a and_o because_o you_o here_o give_v the_o occasion_n by_o make_v this_o mutual_a strict_a engagement_n between_o you_o and_o we_o one_o great_a ground_n of_o your_o deep_a silence_n i_o shall_v faithful_o and_o impartial_o to_o my_o best_a remembrance_n relate_v that_o whole_a business_n of_o the_o agreement_n of_o the_o minister_n for_o silence_n the_o truth_n of_o which_o many_o minister_n then_o present_a upon_o the_o place_n can_v testify_v also_o the_o minister_n of_o both_o side_n both_o they_o and_o we_o desirous_a of_o reformation_n in_o church-government_n and_o worship_n be_v sensible_a how_o much_o our_o difference_n and_o division_n may_v distract_v the_o parliament_n and_o hinder_v the_o take_v away_o of_o episcopal_a government_n and_o the_o reformation_n intend_v in_o a_o full_a and_o great_a meeting_n consult_v together_o upon_o way_n to_o prevent_v it_o and_o by_o vote_n agree_v upon_o these_o 1._o that_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o the_o city_n and_o country_n shall_v continue_v the_o use_n of_o some_o part_n of_o the_o liturgy_n namely_o what_o be_v best_a and_o least_o offensive_a because_o they_o find_v that_o the_o bishop_n fight_v under_o that_o banner_n and_o make_v use_v with_o the_o gentry_n and_o body_n of_o the_o common_a people_n to_o wrap_v up_o themselves_o in_o that_o suggest_v that_o the_o parliament_n will_v take_v away_o the_o common_a prayer_n book_n which_o they_o make_v use_v of_o to_o save_v their_o own_o stand_n and_o to_o work_v their_o own_o end_n the_o better_a and_o m._n goodwin_n ingenuous_o profess_v that_o he_o judge_v the_o moderate_a use_n of_o the_o lyturgie_n in_o this_o juncture_n of_o thing_n and_o for_o a_o time_n conduce_v much_o to_o the_o reformation_n aim_v at_o and_o be_v his_o principle_n as_o we_o that_o any_o prescribe_a prayer_n may_v be_v use_v he_o will_v use_v it_o and_o save_v his_o judgement_n about_o liturgy_n his_o vote_n be_v to_o use_v it_o whereupon_o there_o be_v such_o a_o general_a concurrence_n of_o judgement_n among_o the_o minister_n some_o one_o or_o two_o minister_n in_o the_o city_n who_o be_v take_v notice_n of_o whole_o to_o disuse_n it_o and_o to_o have_v lay_v it_o aside_o in_o all_o administration_n be_v send_v unto_o from_o the_o company_n of_o minister_n and_o one_o of_o they_o come_v present_o to_o who_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o company_n be_v represent_v and_o he_o deal_v with_o to_o take_v it_o up_o again_o and_o to_o use_v some_o part_n of_o the_o prayer_n in_o the_o lyturgie_n especial_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n second_o the_o minister_n find_v that_o the_o preach_n of_o some_o layman_n tradesman_n and_o mechanic_n in_o the_o public_a congregation_n be_v a_o great_a stone_n of_o offence_n in_o the_o build_n of_o the_o temple_n a_o way_n be_v agree_v upon_o by_o the_o minister_n to_o deal_v with_o they_o and_o to_o take_v they_o off_o that_o practice_n and_o some_o of_o the_o company_n judge_v to_o be_v most_o gracious_a and_o powerful_a with_o they_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o whole_a to_o deal_v with_o they_o and_o to_o acquaint_v they_o with_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o some_o ground_n against_o their_o practice_n especial_o at_o that_o time_n though_o the_o company_n of_o minister_n who_o send_v declare_v formal_o their_o judgement_n against_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o at_o all_o time_n three_o a_o mutual_a silence_n be_v agree_v upon_o for_o both_o side_n both_o in_o preach_v print_v and_o confer_v with_o the_o people_n and_o especial_o parliament_n man_n of_o any_o of_o the_o point_n in_o difference_n between_o we_o but_o yet_o so_o that_o both_o they_o and_o we_o shall_v join_v together_o to_o preach_v against_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o rigid_a brownist_n which_o these_o apologist_n promise_v only_o they_o desire_v first_o to_o bring_v in_o a_o narrative_a to_o we_o of_o all_o their_o opinion_n that_o