fethers in ther cappes or to sytt in shorte Ierkens or to vse barrell bretches and commaunded to vse sadd collors and sober fashions in all there apparell thinke you they woulde not be sorye that they shoulde be so yll thought of that theye colde not consyder these thinges without commaundement And I am perswaded 〈◊〉 D. Whytgifte hym self if he were in â—â—nest by any that hath auctoritie specially forbidden to were doble ruffâ—s or yellowe hose drawne out with blewe and commaunded to weare his garmentes of such collour and makinge as becommeth a man of his callinge he woulde thinke a pece of-wronge were offered hym â–ª in that he were no better thought of but that he needed suche kinde of commaundement to kepe hym in order But you will saye that all mynisters be not of suche wysdome and discrescion that they can order them selues without commaundement I aunswer that T. C. speaketh not of suche as are but suche as ought to be and of the reuerent opinion that the magistrate as well as others ought to haue bothe of the office of the mynistery and of the mynisters them selues 9 He sayeth that those mynisteries without the â–ª whiche the Churche is fully buylded and brought to perfection and compleate vnitie are not to be reteined in the Churche whiche is a verye daungerous assertion and maye giue occasion to diuers errors pag. 307. 9 The nynthe is compted a daungerous assertion giuinge occasion of diuers heresies and in the pag 307. it is sayd to tende to the shuttinge out of the Ciuill magistrate and to be the verye argument of the Anabaptistes againste Christian magistrates But yf it were sufficient to accuse who shoulde be innocent especially if M. Whytgiftes Censure were a sentence T.C. were in a wofull case But if you will credite me when I examine the wordes of T C. as stronglye as I can against hym this acâ—â—sation seemeth to me to haue lesse collor then anye of the former For what can be collected of thâ—se wordes Those mynisteryes without the whiche the Churche is fully buyldâ—d and broughte to perfection and compleate vâ—itie are not to be reteined in the Churche but that all superfluous and needles mynisteries are to be remoued Howe doth this assertion exclude the Ciuill magistrate except you will make hym an Archbyshop or Archdeacon or sume such Ecclesiasticall mynister It will be sayde that the Ciuill magistrate hathe auctoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall It is true but that maketh not hym an Ecclesiasticall mynister or his office a mynisterie Ecclesiasticall yf T. C had sayd these offices without the whiche c. ther might perhaps haue been lefte some collor of quarrellinge yet he might reasonablye haue been vnderstand to meane of suche offices as in his whole discourse he speaketh of that is Ecclesiasticall but when he sayeth mynisteries by whiche worde men do comonlye without any furder addition vnderstand mynisteries of the Churche I can not see what accusation M D can haue agaynst hym As for the differens he putteth of bringinge the Churche to perfection and preseruing yt therein is needles in this place for T C speaketh not onelye of layinge the foundation of the Churche but of bringynge it to perfection and compleate vnitie in Christe the heade whiche of force importeth continuance to the ende 10 He holdeth that it were more safe for vs to conforme oure indifferent ceremonies to the Turkes whiche are farre of then to the Papiste whiche are so neare whiche can not be so for the Turkes vtterly denye Christe and be voyde of all Christian ceremonies pag 475. 10 The tenthe assertion is not chardged with any daungerous doctryne but only sayde that yt can not be so and therefore it shoulde haue been placed amonge the vntruthes rather then the daungerous poynctes of doctryne but perhapes he wolde insinuate that T. C. fauoreth the religion of the Turkes rather then of the Papistes Truely I thinke he fauoreth them bothe alyke and yet in some poynctes ther is lesse hurte in the one then in the other I had rather abhorre all images with the Turkes then committ idolatrie with the Papistes and yet I lyke nether of bothe Suche comparatiue sayinges do not imploy a simple allowinge of ether of the thinges compared as when they comonlye saye I had rather be combred with an ague then with a curste wyfe they meane to cherishe nother the one nor the other yf they maye chuse So I am perswaded that T. C. wysheth nether Turkysh ceremonies nor Popishe and yet ther were lesse hurte in Turkishe ceremonies then in Popishe to be vsed of vs because of greater offence growinge in the vse of one whiche is neare and knowen then in vse of the other that is farre of and vnknowen M D noteth in the margent that Gentills and Papistes are not lyke in all respectes nether two kyndes of mylke nor two eggs are lyke in all respectes yt sufficeth in simillitudes if they be lyke in those things in whiche they are compared But from Gentils and Turkes we differ wholy in matter and substaunce of relligion from the Papistes we differ not wholy in matter and substaunce Truely if Antichrist differ wholy from Christ in matter and substaunce Antichristian religion differeth wholy from Christian religion in matter and substaunce And I truste M. Whytgifte will not saye otherwyse but that the Pope is Antichriste and Popishe religion is Antichristian But yet you maye saye we confesse the twelue 〈◊〉 of faythe and all the holye Scripture to be true whiche the Papistes holde also therefore we differe 〈◊〉 wholy from them So dothe the dyuels aswell as the Papistes in an historicall beleefe and yet they are bothe voyde of true faythe Therefore as we differ wholy in matter and substaunce of oure Religion from the dyuells so doe we from the Papistes And in my symple iudgemente there is more daunger in this assertion of M. D. we differ not wholy in matter and substaunce of Religion from the Papistes then this of T C. yt were more safe to conforme oure ceremonies to the Turkes then to the Papistes Finally T C. sayeth that as farre as maye be the Religion of God should differ from the Papistes in forme and fashion not that we maye not haue any thinge comon with them ot lyke to them whiche M D. vrgeth so earnestly and yet proueth so slenderlye 11 He affyrmeth that not only the dignitie but also the beinge of the sacramente of Baptisme dependeth vpon this whether he be à Mynister or no that dothe mynister yt whiche yf it be true then be there nombers not baptised that are supposed to be baptised and it muste of necessitie followe that they ought to be rebaptized whiche is playne Anabaptisme pag 518. 11 Concerninge the eleuenth assertion whiche is heynously accused of Anabaptistrie as I do not playnlye vnderstand howe it is ment by T C so do I not see howe it is substauncially confuted by M. Whytgifte for whereas he alleadgeth some auctorities to proue that
belyke no assertion of T C. for then he woulde haue sett downe his wordes but one of M. D. collections whiche because we haue tryed them so charitable before there is no greate cause why we shoulde nowe be muche moued at them sauinge that my thinke M. W. should not obiecte to T C. the confirminge of his opinion by the argumentes of the Papistes But to the purpose T. C is accused to take from the ciuill Magistrate auctoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters Yt is well that he leaueth hym auctoritie ouer Ecclesiasticall persons But what auctoritie or in what matters dothe he take from the ciuill Magistrate Hathe the ciuill Magistrate auctoritie to preache to mynister the Sacramentes to excommunicate I am suer he will saye no. What is lefte then but to prouide that these thinges maye be donne to the glorye of god I am suer that T C. will not denye this auctoritie But howe shall he prouide by lawes decrees constitutions How shall these lawes decrees constitutions be directed by the worde of god Of whom shall the ciuill Magistrate be instructed in the worde of God what and whereof it is expedient that Ecclesiasticall lawes shoulde be made by his godlye and learned Clergye except in these matters he be wyser and better learned then all his Cleargye in whiche case he maye and ought to ordeyne whatsoeuer is agreable to the worde of God for the benefyte of his Churche not onlye without but euen against the consent of the state Ecclesiasticall All this T. C. yeldeth vnto and of there by any thinge ells that M. D. can proue to be the lawfull auctoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in causes Ecclesiasticall I doubte not but it shal be lykewise graunted In the meane tyme lett M. W. geue to the ciuill Magistrate what he will T C. for any thinge that I can perceiue by his wrytinge will take nothing from hym that is due to hym by the worde of God. 21 He affyrmeth that the readinge of the Scryptures without the preaching can not deliuer so muche as one poore shepe from destruction c. â—herein he is also contrary to hym self pag. 784. 21 In the laste place it is noted for a daungerous poynte of doctryne thaâ— T. C. affyrmeth that bare readinge of the Scriptures without preachinge can not deliuer one poore shepe of destruction You muste vnderstande that he speaketh not of attentiue readinge weyinge and conferringe of the Scriptures ioyned with humble and hartye prayer but of readinge suche as is vsed in the Churche seruice and yet he excepteth the extraordinarye workinge of god The best confutinge of this error hadde been for M. D. to haue brought in some instance of some on Papiste conuerted to the Gospell by onlye readinge in the Churche or of anye wycked man become a godlye man that hath hadde none other instruction but as he hathe hearde the Psalmes and chapters reade in the seruice at Churche whiche yf he can doe I will not defend T.C. error in this poynte But whereas he makith hym contrarye to hym selfe he dothe hym wronge For in the place whiche he quoteth 158. T. C. preferreth readinge of Scriptures in the Churche before readinge of homelyes And that whiche he sayeth of the playnnes and easynes of vnderstandinge of Gods worde is auctorized by the Prophete whiche is spoken of the nature of Gods worde as I take it and not of the aptnes of mens vnderstandinge whiche is grosse and blinde The sonne is not lyghte to a blynde man no more is the worde of God playne to the naturall man For my parte I see no contraryetie in these matters A NOTE OF CERTAYNE VNtrueths and falsefyed auctorities conteyned in the Replie of T.C. and are to be founde out to his booke accordinge to the quotation NExt followethe a note of vntruthes and falsefied auctorities c. whereof some be ouersightes and humane slippes which in a brother shoulde not so egerlye be persecuted some be doubtfull and disputable matters and therefore not to be so rashlye condemned the moste parte are cauills and wrestinges suche as hathe been detected before But yf they were all suche as M. D. woulde haue yet his cause is not ouerthrowne by them therefore no greate victorye obteyned of them This nombringe of vntruthes in the B. of Sarum parlye for the synceritie of his Censures partlye for the noueltye of the matter and partlye for the odiousnes of his aduersaryes cause was worthely well thought of but I can not tell howe it commethe to passe that in M. W. it semethe stale preiudiciall and inuidious The examininge of these notes requireth the iudgement of one that hath diligently redde ouer the Doctors or at the leaste hathe a good librarie of them by hym whereof I haue nether wherefore you might do well to require the same of some other your frendes that are diuines who can better satisfye you But because you haue so importunatlye required my simple iudgement I will do the beste I can to shewe you my opinion 1 He sayeth that it appeareth in the eighte chapter of the booke of Nehemias that the feaste of Tabernacles whiche was commaunded of the Lorde to be celebrated euerye yeare was not celebrated from the dayes of Iosua the sonne of Nun vntill the retourn of their captiuitie whiche is a manifest vntruthe as it is euident 1. Esdras 3. and it is also againste the opinion of all the interpreters pag 8. 1 Yf the residue of his Censures be lyke the fyrste by whiche as by a gate he letteth vs into the reste there is more truthe in T. C vntruthes then in M. W. iudgement of vnâ—truthes T. C. sayethe that the feaste of Tahernacles 〈◊〉 not kepte from the dayes of Iosua the sonne of Nun vntill the retourne of the people from there captiuitie M D. sayeth it is a manifeste vntruthe as it is euident 1. Esdr. 3. truelye yf he haue no better euidence to vpholde his cause then to alleadg that whiche was donne after the retourne to proue that it was donne before ther retournâ— â–ª his cause will sone fall to the grounde In deede it is recorded 1. Esdr. 3. that the feaste of Tabernacles was celebrated but all men will confesse that it was after there retourne and not before Then see the boldnes and bytternes of this man and accordinge to this welcome looke for good entertaynement at this table of vntruthes of his furnishinge Yet he sayethe it is against the opinion of all the interpretors suppose you that he hathe reade all the interpreters for my parte I thinke not for I heare saye that he is vtterly ignoraunt bothe of the Greke and Ebrue tounges thoughe he make some showe of bothe in his booke And it is not to be thought but some learned Grecians haue commented vpon these bookes of Esdras and Nehemias and I thinke you remember what our frende M. N sayed of a certayne Rabbine that is an Ebrue interpretor called Rabbi salamon Iarhii who thinketh it possible that nether in the dayes
ouer once againe But pag 682 is shewed that he dyd mistake the 13. Canon of the Ancyrane councell for the 13 Canon of the councell of Neocesariense whiche error he might easely fall into because it is both one nomber of the Canon and both the counceles were helde neare about one tyme and no greater error then master doctor falleth into euen in the same place whyle he accuseth hym to haue erred in reporting the councell of Antioche where he should haue sayd the Ancyrane councell 49 He alleadgeth that for making Ecclesiasticall lawes and ceremonies whiche is 〈◊〉 of buyldinge and repayringe of Churches â–ª â—ut of Eusebius lib. 2. De vita Constantini Epist. ad Eusebium pag â—98 49 T C. alleadgeth other auctoryties then that of Eusebius as Sozomene and the councells for prooffe of that he wryâ—teth and therefore master doctor doth hym wronge 〈◊〉 presse hym with that only place And yet perhapes the Greeke wordes maye be taken otherwyse then they 〈◊〉 commonly translated But whether they maye or no there be wordes playne inoughâ— â–ª to shewe that Churches were then gouerned by byshopes Elders and Deacons whiche beinge a parte of T.C. assertion peraduenture is as much as he would haue proued out of that Epistle and the rest to be confyrmed by the other auctoryties afterward cyted Therefore I can perceyue no suche grosse ouersyght as is supposed 50 He affyrmeth that this practise continewed still in the Churchs of God scil that nothinge was brought into the Churche to be reade besides the wordes of God whereas the contrarie is manifestly proued of the same tyme whereof he meaneth pag. 718. 50 He affyrmeth that this practise continewed from the Apostles tyme vntill the tyme of Iustinus Martyr as it appeareth by his apollogie where Iustinus purposynge to make open to the Emperour whatsoeuer was donne in the congregation of the Christians for so muche as they were shamefully slaundered concerninge there assemblyes declareth that they dyd reade the monumente of the Prophets and Apostells whereby T. C. gathereth that they dyd reade nothinge ells whiche is not an argument ab autoritate negatiue yf you consyder the purpose of Iustinus to purge the Christians which he dyd not sufficiently yf there were any thinge ells sayd or donn amonge them then that he vttereth As for that which master doctor alleadgeth out of Eusebius of Dionysius wryting to Soâ—er was after the tyme of Iustinus Martyr and therefore no reproffe of T. C. affyrmation For Iustinus was in the dayes of Antoninus pius and Soter was byshope of Rome â–ª in the tyme of Lucius Commodus the sonne of Marcus Aurelius whiche raigned eightene yeares after Antoninus 51 He sayth that saint Iohn in the Apocalyps reprehending the mynisters of diâ—res Churchs dyd not put to his name vnto his booke which is a manifest vntruthe for he addeth his name both in the beginning and in the ende thrise in the first chapter and once in the laste pag. 806. 51 T.C. I trow is not ignoraunt of that therefore I thinkâ—e he meaneth not of his name Iohn but of his addition or surname whereby it might be knowen which Iohn it was for â—her were diuers at that tyme and learned men do not aâ—ree which Iohn it was As for the resydewe of vntruethes and falsyficatioâ— that are not nombered you maye well thinke they be suche as these In which I haue satisfyed your request to shewe you â—yne opinion and symple iudgement leauinge the cause in controuersye betwene them as I founde it I pray God it maye be ended to his glorye There be godly men and learned on both sydes I wyshe they might all agree in the truthe in the meane tyme I woulde haue malice and vnsyncere dealinge hated on both partes
a palpable error pag. 532. and pag. 604. he affyrmeth directlye to the contrarie 12 The twelueth is calleth a palpable error but yf I maye saye as I thinke the Censure is a palpable cauill for T. C. hath thes very wordes â—her â—he speakethe of this matter able inoughe to expresse his meaninge I speake of those whiche are of the Churche and of discrescion to examine them selues M.D woulde make hym contrary to hym self because he sayeth in another place that Papistes and excommunicate persons must be compelled by the Magistrate to heare sermons and yet not admitted to the communion so that by his censure these be two assertions directlye contrarye on to the other Suche as be of the Churche maye as well offer themselues to the communion as to the prayers and hearinge of the worde and this they that be not of the Churche muste be compelled to heare but not permitted to receiue Secondlye he makethe instanâ— of suche as be weake in fayth corrupt in iudgement ignoraunt in the right vse of the Sacrament not knowinge howe to examine them selues but T. C. excludeth all those that be in any suche respecte vnmeete to examine them selues I am sorye I haue troubled you with so manye wordes in so playne a matter 13 He denyethe that the Churche or any man maye restrayne the people from bodely labor in any of the syxe dayes whiche iâ— to drawe from the Magistrate his lawfull aâ—ctoritie and to giue carnall libertie to the people pag 541. 13 The thirtenth assertion is condemned of Anabaptisme in abriging the Magistratâ— lawfull auctoritie and of libertinisme in geuinge the people to muche carnall libertie But good Lorde howe vniustlye Hathe the Magistrate lawfull auctoritie to commaunde the people to be ydle whiche God expreslye forbyddeth or can any man ordeyne a religious reste suche as God ordeyned one the Sabbat in the Lawe For it muste be ether ydlenes or a Sabbat that thes Magistrate shoulde institute For if the Magistrate or the Churche will coÌ„mmaunde men to 〈◊〉 from there 〈◊〉 labors that they maye be imployed in publik affayres or giuen to holye exercises T. C. will not gaynsay it as not many tymes before this assertion he affyrmeth playnelye Nowe towchinge the carnall libertie that this assertion geuithe â–ª â—s M D. sayeth I promise you I can not imagine what shoulde be mente thereby for I colde neuer conceaue that plowinge cartinge and other laboringe of men in ther vocations whereof T. C. speaketh shoulde be compted carnall libertie 14 He sayeth that the lyfe of the Sacrament dependethe of the preachinge of the worde whiche if it be true then is the sacrament of Baptisme not to be mynistred to infantes because they can not heare the worde preached and in dede this is the grâ—â—â—de of Anabaptisme pag. 566. 14 The fourtenth assertion is myghtely pressed with the accusation of Anabaptistrye partlye because the metaphor of lyfe is vrged so vehemently by M D and partlye because the speache of T C. in this place is sumwhat vnproper or els perhaps corrupted in the pryntinge But first it is nether charitable no reasonable to expounde a metaphore too stronglye agaynste hym that vsed it as yf a man should saye my lyfe is in your hands it were harde to conclude agaynst hym ergo it is not in your bodye and so you are deade and then you muste be buryed c. Lykewise wher T C sayeth the lyfe of the Sacraments dependeth of the preachinge of Gods worde it is an harde conclusion of M. D ergo the Sacraments ministred without a sermone are deade and beinge ministred to infants whiche can not vnderstande the sermon is not effectuall But where he sayeth that the lyfe of the Sacramentes dependeth of the preachinge of the worde of god I suppose he meanethe of the worde of God preached and declared and peraduenture so his wordes were but altered by the prynter For M D assertion of the lyfe of the Sacramentes yf it be not charitablye expounded is as foule an error as he would seme to chardge T. C withall and woulde brede as great absurdities For he sayethe that the lyfe of the Sacramentes dependethe vpon Gods promysses expressed in his worde and nâ—ther vpon preachinge nor readinge For yf the lyfe of the Sacramentes dependethe vpon Gods promisses expressed in his word although the same be neuer read nor preached and declared the Popishe masse maye be counted the Lordes supper althoughe the Lordeâ— deathe be not therin preached and declared nor yet reade to the edifeynge of the people Agayne yf the lyfe of the Sacraments dependethe altogether vpon Gods promysses expressed iâ— his worde and nothinge at all of preachinge or declaringâ— of the same they maye be mynistred to infidells for there can be no fayeth where there is no preachinge of Gods worde They giue lyfe ex opere operato of the worke wrought as the Papists saye to all that receaue them whether they be worthye or vnworthye within the couenaunte or without it But I knowe M D. will aunswer that he dothe not exclude preachinge The lyke maye be sayd of T. C. that he dothe not exclude the promysses of Godes worde but ioyneth preachinge to them althoughe he dothe not of necessitie require preachinge immediatlye before euery action of there administration but that of necessytie the worde of God must not only be reade but also preached and declared vnto the people amongest whom the Sacraments are mynistred or els they maye be ministred amonge the Turkes and Iewes So that yf the assertion of T. C. â—e weyghed with indifferencie it tendeth no more to Anababaptistrie then the assertion of Ihoâ— Whytgifte to Papistrie 15 He doubteth whether he maye call hym mynister or no that can not preache whiche beinge 〈◊〉 with his former 〈◊〉 that the mynister is if the beinge of the Sacramente it will fall out that he counteth all those not baptised whiche haue beeâ— baptised by any other than by preachers pag. 568. and 6â—â— 15 The fyften Censure is a meaâ—e cauill taken vp by â—â—â—kinge a phrase of speakinge contrarie to the speaker Although it semeth that ether M.D. or his printer â—athe lefte out some wordes pag. 568 whiche T. C is chardged to vse by the Censure in the table For in the pag. 568. he is made to speake thâ—s That there shoulde be in steade of a preachinge mynister yf I maye so call hym and in steade of preachinge readinge c as thoughe he doubted whether a preachinge mynister were a mynister whiche is cleane contrarie to that he is burdened withall in the Censure But lett it be as the Censure reporteth that his wordes are of a mynister that can not preache dothe he doubte whether he be in any respecte a mynister because he sayeth yf I maye so call hym In deede this manner of speakinge declareth that he iudgethe hym that can not preache a man vnworthy to be a mynistre but he dothe not denye hym altogether Or 〈◊〉 what saye we to these speaches
woulde sett vp a newe Popedome because he sayeth with the prophet Esaye cap. 49. that Princes muste worship the Churche with there â—aces to the earthe and lycke the duste of her feete I meruayle what he maye speake without daunger of heresye M D. beinge his iudge yf he maye not speake the wordes of the Scripture But M. D. improueth not the sayinge for then the deuill were on hym but his meaninge for by the Churche sayethe he he meanethe the Presbyterie or Eldership But who made hym so preuye of his meaninge forsoothe the pag. 140. by the wordes of Christ Dic Ecllesiae tell the Churche he meaneth the Eldership therefore alwayes wheresoeuer he speaketh of the Churche he meanethe the Eldershippe a proper conclusion So thoughe he speake neuer so well yf M. D. maye interprete his meaninge he can not escape suspicion of heresye Howbeit in this place as I coulde neuer haue imagined any suche meaninge so it is euident to all men that he hathe no suche meaninge for his wordes his reason the auctoritie of the Prophete whom he cyteth do all testifye that he meanethe the Churche in the moste common and vsuall sence and as it is the bodye of Christe in whose respecte beinge hir heade she oughte to haue all this honor that is spoken of But m. D. will haue a Prince in no respecte subiecte to the seniors nor yet to 〈…〉 calleth in scorne whose name and office is yet auctorized by god And whether he woulde haue hym exempt from discipline I doe not playnlye see but as farre as I can perceiue he woulde And then he condemneth Ambrose foâ— excommunicatinge the Emperor Theodosius for the murder committed in Thessalonica and manye other godly fathers whiche dyd exercise discipline vpon Christian princes And verely the reasons that he vseth maye serue to set a Prince aboue the doctrine Sacramentes discipline and all But he is altogether deceiued for the subiection that is required of Princes is spirituall and not carnall â–ª vnto God and not to men derogatinge nothing from there princelye maiestie nor from theâ—e auctoritie no not from that auctoritie whiche they haue ouer persons Ecclesiasticall and in causes Ecclesiasticall Yf a Prince submitt hym selfe to the doctrine of his Pastor â–ª to learne that he knoweth not to reforme that wherein he is iustlye reproued to receyue the Sacraments of his hande to be blessed of hym to haue his synnes forgiuen by hym I speake but as Christe speaketh he is not made as M. D sayeth a seruaunt no master a subiect no Prince vnder gouernement no gouernor in matters perteyninge to the Churche but remaynethe still a master of men thoughe a seruant of God a prince of people yet a subiect to the Kinge of Kinges a gouernor in matters pertaininge to the Churche thoughe vnder the gouernement of Christe Right so yf he submitt hym selfe to the discipline of the Churche whiche is no auctoritie of men but as S. Paule callethe it 1. Cor 5. the power of our Lorde Iesus Christe he abaseth not hym selfe otherwyse then he ought to doe For those textes Quicquid ligaueritis quicquid ligaueris matth 16. and 18. whatsoeuer you shall bynde and whatsoeuer thou shalt bynde whose synnes soeuer you reteyne Iohn 20. Yf any that is called a brother 1. Cor. 5 be so generall that in myne opinion they make Princes as well as poore men subiect to the discipline of the Churche whiche is no earthly ciuill or humane auctoritie but the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ for the saluation of there soules 1. Cor 5 As for the auctorytie of master Galter and other Heluetians is of smal waight in this case for they do not onely exempte princes but all other men from discipline of excommunication whose grosse error seing it is contrarye to our state which alloweth discipline Ecclesiasticall though not suche as T C requirethe I meruayle what master D. meaneth to publishe for good auctoritie 12 He sayeth pag 646 that the gouernement of the Common wealthe muste be framed accordinge to the gouernement of the Churche euen as the hanging to the house and he affyrmeth that the gouernement of the Churche is Aristocraticall or populare whiche is a daungerous errour and springeth of this that he doth not distinguyshe betwixt the essentiall poyntes of the gouernement of the Churche and the accidentall poyntes of the same for the essentiall poyntes of Ecclesiasticall gouernementâ— maye well agree with any lawfull state of common wealthe and ciuill kinde of gouerâ—ement as the gospell maye be truelye preachâ—d in them all the Sacrameâ—tes ryghtly mynistred discipline duelye executed and suche lyke but the accidentall poyntes of gouernement as the manner of electinge mynisters the kinde of discipline accidentall ceremonies and other suche lyke rytes and circuâ—staunces maye be varied accordinge to tyme place and persons and are so to be framed as they maye best agree with the state and gouernement of euery common wealth The ignoraunce of this distinction hath â—ast T C into a great and perillous error 19 The nynetenth assertion is so violently drawen into an odious calumniation that I am lothe to leese any tyme in aunsweringe but only to satisfie your request T. C. sayeth that the common wealth muste be made to agree with the Churche and the gouernement thereof with her gouernement whiche is all one as yf he had sayde the common wealthe muste be made to agree with the worde of God â–ª and the gouernement thereof accordinge to the doctrine of the same wherefore yf there be any thinge in the common wealthe that agreeth not with the worde of God the same muste be reformed accordinge to the worde of God is not this a perilous doctrine In deede it hath alwayes been accepted so by Epicureans and Atheistes but I neuer hearde a diuine mislyke it before but I herde a frende of myne once saye that malice is a most subtill sophister As for the cauill of M D howe vayne it is experience it selfe dothe proue for euen that gouernement of the Church which T. C requireth maye stande with any of the thre good states of a common wealthe whether it be Monarchye Aristocratye or Democratye The realme of Scottland is â— Monarchye and ther is established this gouernement of the Churche the lyke also is intended by the Palsgraue whiche is a Monarche in his territorye the cytties of Sauoye be partlye Aristocraticall and partlye Democraticall in whiche this gouernement of the Churche hath longe tyme been practised wherefore it is nether so straunge nor so daungerous a thinge as M â–ª W. woulde seme to make it â–ª As for the Censure of ignoraunce that he so proudlye obiecteth to hym were more then needed althoughe yt came from a farr better learned man the M. D. sheweth hym selfe to be 20 He bothe ioyneth with the Papistes in takinge from the Ciuill magistrates auctoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters and also in confyrminge that error by their argumentes and none otherâ— pag 694. 20 The twentith is
of Dauid nor in the dayes of Kinge Salamon that feaste was celebrated vntill the dayes of Esdras but yf the place be to be vnderstaunde as M D with all his interpreters expounde it yet the wordes sounde otherwyse vntill the contrarye be shewed for it maye be that Esdras and Nehemias speake bothe of one tyme and the other exposition seruethe T. C. purpose euen as well For in that place the former ages are reproued yf for not omittinge yet for not so solemplye kepinge that feaste as they shoulde haue downe by the Lawe 2 Iosias is alleadged for Ezechias pag. 10. 2 This might be the faulte of hym that coppyed out thee fyrst wrytinge or the faulte of the prynter or yf it were the faulte of T. C. it is confessed by M D to be a lyght ouersight and suche as he hym selfe hathe triped in once or twyse 3 This worde especially is added to the texte 1. Cor 10. pag. 86. 3 Yt is a great faulte to adde any thinge to the Scriptures But he that giueth the true meaninge in other wordes dothe nether adde to the Scriptures nor chaunge them His words 〈◊〉 these That they offende not anye especiallie the Churche of god S. Paule sayeth Be suche as giue no offence nether to the Iewes nor to the grecians nor to the Churche of God Now whether those that are weake in the Churche of God are especially to be consydered rather then Iewes or Gentills whiche are out of the Churche is all the question M. D. sayeth they that are out of the Churche are especiallye to be regarded But he onelye sayeth it without other reason or auctorytie For reason of the contrarye syde this maye be sayde that as charytie is the chiefe rule in auoydinge offences and charytie regardeth especially those that are of the how shoulde of faythe so we muste haue especiall care not to offende them The Apostle also speaketh moste of them teachinge to auoyde offences calling them thy brother thy weake brother those for whom Christ dyed c Rom 14 1. Cor 8. 4 He opposeth Ignatius and Tertullian to Ambrose and Augustine as thoughe Ambrose and Augustine shoulde thinke it to be lawefull to faste on the Lords daye and the other two should wrytte the contrarie whereas Ambrose and Augustine fullye agree with Ignatius and Tertullian in that matter pag 99. 4 The wordes of T. C. be these I will not enter nowe to discusse whether it were well donne to faste in al places accordinge to the custome of the place you oppose Ambrose and Augustine I coulde oppose Ignatius and Tertullian whereof the one sayeth that it is nefas a detestable thinge to faste vpon the Lordes daye the other that it is to kill the Lorde and this is the inconuenience that commeth of suche vnlearned kinde of reasoninge Sainte Ambrose sayethe so and therfore it is true In the 99 pag this is noted to be an vntruthe procedinge of ignoraunce but in deede this a false and a proude Censure proceding of malyce and arrogance as thoughe T. C coulde not tell what difference is betwene the Sabbat and the Lordes daye I shoulde haue reade these wordes an hundreth tymes and neuer vnderstoode that he opposeth Ignatius and Tertullian to Ambrose and Augustine but to M. D. Whytgifte and his kinde of reasoninge as M. Whytgifte opposeth Ambrose and Augustine to his aduersarye For yf the auctoryties of Ambrose and Augustine be irrefragable for fastinge one satterdaye then the auctoryties of Ignatius and Tertullian are the lyke touchinge fastinge one Sondaye which notwithstanding are meare absurdities But as it is not so haynouse an offence to faste on Sondaye because Ignatius and Tertullian saye so So no more is the rule of fastinge one satterdaye true because Ambrose and Augustine saye so 5 He mangleth sainte Augustines words bothe before behinde and in the middest pag 107. 5 This is a friuolous quarellinge for T. C. pretendeth not to recyte the wordes of Augustine nor to translate them into Englysh but onlye to giue the somme of his meaninge whiche he dothe sufficientlye to showe that M. D. hathe no greate grounde in that epistell ad Ianuarium c. 6 Pag 144 he falsefyeth the woords of saint Paule 1. Tim 3. and vntruelye translateth them 6 Yt is no smale offence to falsefye the worde of God and therefore M. W. shoulde be well aduised before he accuse his brother of so horrible a crime God forbyd that euery one whiche erreth in translation shoulde be a falsefyer of Godes worde muche lesse he that giueth suche a translation as the originall worde will beare whiche I thinke T. C. dothe in this place his wordes are pag. 144. And beinge tryed lett them execute there functions as longe as theye remaine blameles Firste he translateth not worde for worde for then he woulde haue sayd and lett them be tryed fyrste and then lett them minister beinge blamelesse So that it maye well be that he mente onlye to gather an argument of the Apostles wordes who yf he will not haue Deacons admitted to minister before they be tryed and in try all founde blameles no more woulde he haue them permitted to remayne in that office yf they do not contynewe blameles What falsefyinge is here ether of the wordes or of the meaninge of the Apostle But yf he ment to translate those wordes ' anegclytoi ' ontes so longe as they remaine blameles Theye are better Grecians then M. D. is compted to be that thinke it maye stand bothe with signification of the worde and with the circunstaunce of the place for S. Paule dothe not only speake of election of Deacons but also of suche qualities as shoulde contynewe in them after they be chosen Therefore yf it be an errour whiche wil be harde for M. D. to proue it is no errour in matter but in translation and no falsification except M. D. wil be compted a falsefier for reading out of the 12. of the Apocalypse verse 11 and expoundinge it also accordinge to his readinge by the worde of his testimonie wher he shoulde haue sayde by the worde of ther testimonye Yt is lyke he dyd reade it out of Erasmus translation whiche is propter sermonem testimonii sui whiche yf a man marke not the reciprocation of sui maye deceaue hym beinge not a verye cunninge Grammarian This was vttered within these two or thre yeres in a sermon at Paules crosse and noted by manye learned man whiche had there greake Testaments whereof one syttinge by me sayd that before that tyme he thought M W had been a verye good Grecian ▪ but nowe he perceyued the contrarye that he coulde not so muche as reade his texte in Greeke whiche yf he had doen he coulde not haue been deceyued And yet in my conscience as I am suer he dyd erre in translatinge so woulde I not iudge hym to be a falsefier of Gods worde because I thinke he erred of symplicitie and not of malice 7 He sayeth that Israelites when they worshipped
the Calfe sayd that they woulde kepe holly daye to the Lorde Iehoua which is not true pag. 151. 7 I praye God nether T. C nor Io. Whytgifte neuer erre more then T. C hathe erred in this poynte for then I trust they shoulde neuer be deceiued but what is the error Aaron sayde so but not the people but Aaron was then the heade of the people and they all consented to kepe holye daye the next morowe accordinge to his proclamation therefore the people sayde so as well as Aaron But M W. obiectethe the people sayde these by thy Gods o Israell whiche brought thee out of lanee of Egypt They sayde so in deede but they sayde not so to controll Aarons proclamation and so to denye that they woulde kepe holye daye to Iehoua But contrarye wyse euen those there wordes declare that they purposed not to chaunge there God but to worshipe the same God whiche brought them out of Egypte in that visible forme of a calfe And because M. D. thinketh there is no wrytter that so dothe take it let hym reade Caluine bothe in his Institution lib. 1. cap. 11 sectione 8. and in his Harmonye vpon Exod. 32. 7 He citeth a place out of Iustinians Code whiche can not as yet be founde there nether dothe he faythfully reporte but subtilly suppresse the wordes whiche explane the matter as they be sett downe by Illyricus of whom he borrowed them pag 184. 8 Seinge he dothe acknowledge that he hathe the place of Illyricus collections it is no faulte in hym yf it be wronge quoted as for the surmyse of suppressinge somme of the wordes is without grownde for he alleadgeth that constitution onlye for this ende to shewe that the consent of the Churche in the election of there mynister maye stande with the tyme of a Christian magistrate because Iustinian a Christiane Emperour decreed that so often as a mynisters place was voyde the inhabiters of the Cyttye shoulde chuse three c. This is nether vntruthe nor falsification in alledginge auctoritye to leaue out that whiche perteyneth nothinge to the purpose for whiche th'auctoritye is cited 9 He sayeth that Platina wrytteth that Lâ—dowicke the secondâ— commaundeth the Romaines to chose there owne Byshope whiche is not true for he only commended them for so doinge he dyd not commaund them pag. 186. 9 Commaundinge and commendinge differ but in one letter and therefore this might be the faulte of the wrytter or prynter or yf it were lapsus memoriae forgetfulnes of the auctor yet the matter for whiche it is alleadged is true he commendeth them for chusinge a good Byshope non expectato aliorum voto c. not lokinge for others mens voyces whiche beinge straungers colde not so well tell what was donne or to be donne in the common weale were they where straungers and that it apertaineth to the citizens all whiche M D slyely passeth one rhet will I not sâ—ye that ye is a falsefyer for carpinge at that whiche is not materiall and suppressinge that matter whiche is principally to be regarded for that whiche is in question 10 He sayeth that these which wryte the Centuries suspecte the councell of Lacdicea which forbiddeth the election of mynisters to be committed to the people and doubte whether it be a bastarde or not which is vntrue for the Authors of the Centuryes make no suche doubte pag 188. 10 The matter is not worth the wagginge of a strawe whether they doubte yf this canon were a bastarde â–ª or ells decreed against the truethe and those wordes of thers which M. D alleadgeth concerning this Canon Mirum qua veritare it is maruayle by what truethe for any thinge that I see maye be taken that ether they thinke the Canon connterfeyted or ells they erred that made it The one sence is as good for T C. as the other 11 He sayeth that Ierome willeth that the people should haue power and aâ—ctâ—â—iti to chose Clerkes and ministers which is not so for Ierom willeth no suche thinge pag. 203. 11 Here is nether falsification nor vntruthe for Ierome wordes are not alleadged by T C. therefore not falsefyed and where he sayethe that Ierome willeth he meaneth that Ierome alloweth the people there righte in election As those wordes do shewe whiche M D. alleadgeth out of Ierome Cum ad perfectam â—â—atem veneris si tamen vita comes 〈◊〉 te vel populus vel Pontifex ciuitaris in clerum elegerit agito quae cleri sunt when thou shalâ— come to parfect age but so that good lyfe be a companionâ— and that ether the people or the byshope of the cytie chuse thee into the clergie do those thinges that belonge to a clerke By these wordes it aperithe that he woulde not haue Rusticus intrude hym seâ—fe without lawfull election and that he compted that a lawfull election whiche is made by the people and confyrmed by the byshope but whereas M. D. shoulde make it indifferent whether he were chosen by the byshope alone or by the people because Ierome sayth ether the people or the byshope it is without collour of reason For he maye no more gather by those wordes that the byshope might chuse without the people then that the people might chuse without the byshope But the cause of that distinction is that in that age somtime the people woulde chuse a minister whom they thought meere and afterward bringe hym to the byshop to be admitted by hym as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostom De sacerdotio of the chusinge of Basill when Ihon Chrysostom hym self gaue hym the sâ—ypp Sometymes the byshop woulde espye a meere man hym self require the consent of the people to chuse as it appearethe by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor Wherefore this Censure as manye other might well inoughe haue been spared 12 He alleadgeth Musculus his wordes in steade of Ieromesâ— and that whiche onlye Musculus sayeth in his common places 〈◊〉 ascribeth to Ierome in his Epist to Nepotian eâ—d 12 Here be the words of Musculus alledged for the words of Ierome whiche was in dede an ouersght but it maye be excused by the lacke of bookes Yf M D. had charged hym with greate negligence it had been suffycient but when he vpbraydeth hym with grosse ignorance it is more then nedeth excepte he accompteth it grosse ignorans in T.C. because he can not saye all Ieromes workes without booke But touchinge the substaunce of the matter th'exchaunge of Musculus for Ierome is no greate losse for Musculus is as well learned and of sounder iudgement them euer Ierome was 13 He sayeth that Nazian 〈…〉 oration that he wryteth at the deathe of his father confuteth these reasons that seme to 〈◊〉 der the election of Mynisters by the Churche and yet is there no suche thinge to be founde in that oration pag 205. 13 M D. hym selfe confesseth pag 206 as muche as T.C. requireth to be proued by this oration that is that the people in that
tyme had interest in the election of mynisters No man sayeth he denyeth but that the people at this tyme had interest in the election of the mynister in diuers Churches Therefore the conclusion of T. C. is voyde of vntruthe or falsification These were learned fathers and yet thought not that the election of the Pastor or Byshop perteyned to one man alone but that the Churche had also her interest Therefore you see all the learned fathers are not of that mynde you say they are 14 He referreth the reader to the 6.3.7 booke of Eusebius for examples of elections of the people and clergie confyrmed by the Christian Magistrate namelye in the byshope of Constantinople and yet there is â—o suche examples in these bookes nether any mention of any byshope of Constantinople pag. 207. 14 For the election of the Clergie and people mentioned in these two bookes of Eusebius lib. 6 cap 10. lib. 7. cap. 30. Whiche M. W hym selfe hath founde out althoughe he pycke manye quarrells vnto them yet for asmuch as he gâ—aunteth in the ende that the people in that tyme dyd gaue there consent in the electinge of there Byshope it shal be needles to saye any more of it But herein he tryumpheth excedinglye that there was no suche election confyrmed by the Christian magistrate namelye in the Byshope of Constantinople In this Assertion are three thinges to be consydered one of substaunce and two of circunstaunce Of substaunce this whether an example maye be founde of the whole Churches election of a Byshope confyrmed by the magistrate Of circunstaunce these two one whether he were a Christiane magistrate another whether it were the byshope of Constantinople And as concerninge the fyrste whiche is the matter of substaunce in the 7. booke of Eusebius cap 24 there is to be sene an example of the election of one Domius whiche was chosen by the whole Churche and confyrmed by the Emperour Aurelianus Now for the circumstaunce there is some error to be confessed but suche as semethe moste probable to procede of the prynter rather then of the Aucthor For Aurelianus althoughe at that tyme he fauored the Christians and as Eusebius sayeth decreed moste hollyly in that requeste that was made to hym touchinge the Byshopes howse yet can not properlye be called a Christian magistrate and that T C knoweth very well affyrming that Constantine was the fyrst christiane Emperour excepte Phillip Wherfore this worde Christiane semethe to be added by the prynter to fyll vp his lyne at the latter ende of a page The other is misnaminge of Constantinople for Antioche and this is lyke to be the mysreadinge of the prynter yf the copye were hastelye wrytten in a ronninge hande because Antino with is a parte of this worde Constantinople hathe some resemblans with Antioche some letters before and behinde beinge blotted and put out But whereas M. d. iesteth so vnsaâ—earlye of the buyldinge of Constantinople Anno 335. and the byshope of Constantinoples confyrmation fourtye yeres before Constantinople wâ—s notinge in the margent a grosse ouersighte of T.C. peraduenture it bewrayeth as grosse ignoraunce of Io. W. for Constantinople was not fyrst buylded by Constantine anno 335 but bewtifyed and enlarged beinge before a verye auncyente and noble cyttie called Byzantium and had byshops as Nicephorus wytnessethe euer synce the Apostles tyme lib 8. cap. 6. amonge whom was one Dometius brother of the emperour Probus Who succeded Aurelianus whiche Dometius hadde two sonnes that succeded hym in the byshopryck Fyrst Probus and then Metrophanes whiche was byshope when Constantine began his great buyldinge at Constantinople Wherefore it maye be that T. C hathe reade some wheare of the electinge and confyrminge of these byshopes that were so neare of Kynne to the Emperours 〈◊〉 hereof I can not pronounce 15 He fathereth a manifest vntruthe vpon Eusebius lib. 6. touchinge Origens admission into the mynisterie pag. 209. 15 He speaketh neuer a worde of Origens admission into the mynisterie as M. d. vnderstandeth the worde mynister to be the same whom he calleth prieste and whiche of the common people be called priestes and mynisters But he sayethe that Origene Was admitted not of one byshope but af manye byshopes to teache whiche were reproued by Demetrius byshope of Alexandria because they had admitted hym without the election of the presbyterie of the Churche countinge hym but a laye man whiche was not so elected althoughe he were admitted by many byshopes Therefore all that M. d. bringeth in to proue that Origene was afterwardes made a mynister c. is to no purpose for T.C. sayethe not that he was admitted a mynister at this tyme but a teacher and yet counted a laye man by Demetrius because he lacked the election of the presbyterie For yf he had been lawfully chosen to be but a reader he coulde not in that tyme haue been iustlye compted a laye man muche lesse yf he had been lawfully chosen to be a teacher and instructer of the Churche Wherefore it appeareth that Demetrius called hym a laye man because he demed hym not to be lawfully elected And the Byshops them selues defend not there election but shewe that laye men beinge learned haue been requyred of sondry byshopes to teache the people in presence of the byshop Wherein they aunswere de facto out not de iure that is they shewe what hathe been doen but not what ought to be doen. Neuertheles the chiefe matter that stycketh in M. W. stomacke is howe it maye be proued that Demetrius compâ—ed hym a laye man that was admitted without the election of the presbyterie Fot he askethe whether there be any thinge soundinge that waye But yf he had read Eusebius in Greeke for that which he hath turned when as yet he was not ordeyned mynister he might haue giuen it an other sownde and translated it when as yet he had not obteyned the election of the presbyterie for the wordes are thâ—se Kai toi tes tou presbuteriou xeirotoneias Oudâ—po teâ—uxekota auton â–ª and where is then this manifest vntrueth fathered vpon Eusebius touchinge Origens admission into the mynisterie But it semeth that M. D is better acquainted with the sounde of Lattin then of Greeke for he discusseth not any translation so it will serue his tourne 16 He leaneth â—ut the words of the councell of Chalcedon that open the meaninge of the councell pag 222. 16 Those wordes that he leaueth out open no matter against hym The wordes craftelye lefte out as M. D. sayeth be he Marturio he Monasterio whiche signifye or in some Churche buylded in the memory of a martyr or in a monasterie For sauinge M. W. auctoritie these were pastorall charges aswell as the other for monasteries in that tyme thoughe they were exempt places from other congregations yet dyd they conteyne a multitude of men and therefore were a congregation whiche had nede of a pastor And Martyria whether they were Paryshe Churches or colledges or hospitalles they had also some people pertayninge to
Centurye that there were Archbyshopes in S. Ambrose his tyme and shewe also howe muche they dyffered from the Archbyshopes that followed in the Popishe tymes yet in some other place they might alleadge the auctoritie of Ambrose out of his booke de dignitate sacerdotali to proue that in his tyme the degree of an Archbyshope was not distinct from the degree of a Byshope in dignitie but onlye for order sake because he there deuideth the Clergye into no more degrees then these three Byshopes Elders and Deacons 24 He sayeth that Ierome and Augustine speaketh of Archdeacons in those places where they only speake of Deacons pag 346. 24 Vndoubtedlie Ierome speaketh of an Archdeacon in the place quoted by T. C that is in his Epistle to â—uagrius Wher fyrst he fyndeth greate faulte that any Deacon should be preferred befor the Elders or Priests which by the Scriptures he proueth to be equale to the Byshopes and afterward sheweth howe the Byshope came to be preferred namlye by consent of the reste of the Elders for auoydinge contention as yf the Armye chuse a Capitayne or the Deacons chuse one amonge them selues whom they knowe to be a diligent man and call hym Archdeacon So that by Ieroms iudgment the Archdeacon was preferred aboue the Deacons but not thereby preâ—erred before Elders So the falsifycation of Ierome is not to be aduouched The lyke maye be sayde of Augustine for seinge the Archdeacon in those tymes was but the cheife Deacon and so but a Deacon whatsoeuer was spoken against the presumptions of the inferior deacons ouer the Elders maye be also sayde of the Archdeacons or cheife deacons I thinke master Whytgifte howsoeuer he woulde seme to walke vnder a cloude in this matter yet he will not saye for shame that the Archdeacons in sainte Ieroms and sainte Augustines dayes had auctoritie ouer the Elders and mynisters as they haue nowe whiche is the thinge in question and whiche T.C. denyeth 25 The words of Socrates are falsefyed pag 350. 25 The wordes of Socrates be not falsefyed for they be not alledged nor translated but his meaninge is faythfully and truely rendered that the Byshops of Rome and Alexandria leauinge the sacred function were degenerated into a seculer rule or dominion which master doctor translateth that they were passed the limites of priesthode to an outward dominion What difference is here in the sene If T. C. take â—pon hym to translate out of Greeke into Latine or Englyshe by all lykelyhod he well do it as well as master doctor can doe It is happy he can not saye but that the sence is all one thoughe the wordes be not the same And yet there is no great difference betwene passing and degeneratinge the limites of priesthode and the holy â—unction seculer dominion and outward dominion 26 He vntruely reporteth the words of Cypriane pag 257. 26 He reporteth no wordes of Cypriane but onlye affyrmeth a truthe out of Cypriane that 90 byshopes of one prouince condemned Priuatus an hereticke master doctor quareleth at the name of prouince wherbye T. C. meaneth that tâ—acâ— of the countrye whiche was neare about the Cittie where these byshops dyd meete For yf the diocesses had been so large as commonlie the diocesses of byshopes are nowe so manye coulde not so often meete in councell as it is manifest in deede by that epistle of Cyprian â–ª with master doctor citeth lib 1. Epist 3. and manye other that 40.39.66 byshopes mette in councell commonly euerye yeare and peraduenture more then one in the yeare whiche coulde not be yf they had dwelled so farre a sounder as byshopes do nowe As for that he alledgeth out of Masseus of the patriarche of Antioche to proue the lardgnes of one prouince is to little purpose for there were but fower Patriarches in the worlde vnder the byshope of Rome as appeareth in the councell of Laterane therefore euery one of them muste haue a great manye prouinces vnder hym Besids that he expresseth not what tyme ther wer so manye byshops subiect â–ª to hym sauing that he semeth to saye that they are nowe and T C. speaketh of Cyprians tymes thirten hundreth yeare agoe 27 He falsefyeâ—h the meaninge of Tertullian alludinge that to ceremonies that Tertullian meanethe of faythe and of saluation pag. 370. 27 I neuer knewe a man of suche learninge so farre to ouershoote hym self as master Whytgifte dothe in this place For he alledgeth a woorke of Tertulliane to proue that his rule as to be vnderstande onlye of matters of faythe and not of ceremonies or matters of discipline where he speaketh onlye and manifestlye of a ceremonie and a matter of discipline namelye the coueringe of Virgins in the congregation accordinge to the doctrine of sainte Paule For whereas the contrarie custome was crept into the Churche of Carthage that Virgins came barre headded into the congregation and had longe continued he declareth that Christ and the truthe is moste auncient and before all customes and therefore that to be followed whiche was fyrste in this matter And whereas master doctor woulde gather a difference out of Tertulliane of matter of fayth and matter of discipline he is muche deceiued For Tertulliane wrytinge of them that helde one true sayth whiche is immutable and erred in this matter of discipline sheweth that althoughe they retayned the rules of fayth vnchaungeable yet discipline also â–ª yf it were corrupted by euill custome muste be reformed accordinge to the worde of god And this is the true meaning of his words which are alledged by master Wgytgifte this lawe of fayth remaining other things of discipline and conuersation admitt newnes of correction the grace of God woorkinge and goinge forwarde euen to the ende He sayeth not that they maye be chaunged newely euery daye but tâ—at they maye be newely corrected yf they be growen into abuse and reformed accordinge to the Scriptures Now lett master doctor take hâ—de that he falsefyeth not the meaninge of Tertullian whiche interpreteth his meaninge cleane contrarie to the scope of his whole booke 28 He kepeth backe the woords of Theodoret that explane his meaninge pag 412. 28 The wordes here spoken of in the Censure are afterward in the probation pag 413. sayed to be one woorde Tavten This Well put Tavten to that whiche T. C. sayeth and what is the matter mended Theodoret sayeth that Chrysostom had the same care of the churche of Thracia Asya and Pontus that he had of the churche of Constantinople erge he had the same rule and auctoritie What lodgike is this But Theodoret sayeth in plaine woordes he gouerned the Churches in Pontus with those lawes M. D confesseth the Greeke to be katekosmei tois nomois that is he garnished or bewtefyed with lawes But dothe he falsefye Theodoret because he leaueth out Tavtois there Suerlye there is asmuche subtiltie in leauinge out the other and greater preiudice in translatinge katekosmei he gouerned then in â—matting Tavtois these Yet you will saye yt can not be auoyded but that he had
auctoritye in that Churche whiche he garnished with lawes I will not discusse what auctoritie he had but I thinke this garnishinge with lawes â–ª maye be expounded by that promeitheian or prospection whiche he speaketh of before and that the one dothe open the other That is that he procured throughe that credit whiche he had with the Emperour that suche Ecclesiasticall lawes shoulde be established in other Churches as he sawe to be profytable in his owne hauinge a speciall chardge of his owne flock and a generall care of all Churches 29 An vntruthe concerninge Ireâ—aeus aucuâ—heâ—â— out of the fyfth booke of Eusebius cap 3 aâ—d 4 pag. â—adem 29 The vntruthe supposed is that T.C. affyrmeth that Irenaeus was sent of the frenche Churches into Phrygia M D. sayth he was sente onlye to Rome and not into Phrygia But it is straunge to see that such a diligent reader of Auncient wryters as master Whytgifte woulde be thought to be by carpinge of others shoulde so muche forget hym self For euen in the place of Eusebius quoted by T C. it is manifest that the longe Epistle wrytten by the Churches of Vienna and Lions was sente not onlye to Eleutherius the byshope of Rome but principally to the churches of Asya and Phrygia and a speciall cause alledged because that Montanus dyd then spred his heresye Nowe seing master doctor confesseth that Irenaeus carryed the letter to Rome what should leade hym to thinke that he carryed it not furder into Asya and Phrygia 30 He peruerteth the woordes of the Greeke scholiaste pag. 413. 30 M doctor shoulde better haue reproued this peruertinge yf he had alledged the woordes of the Greeke scholiast in greeke But lett the woordes be as he translateth â—â—gulas ciuitates suum habere pactorem that euery cittie should haue hir owne pastor then followeth it of necessitie whiche T C. sayeth that euery pastor should haue his owne citty for his chardge What peruertinge is this Euery wyfe muste haue hir owne husbande therefore euery husbande muste haue his owne wyfe For yf it be once graunted â–ª that euery flocke muste haue ther owne pastor it muste needes followe that euery pastor muste haue his owne flocke For there maye be a flocke without a shepherd but ther can be no shepherd without a flocke 31 He auouched aea vntruthe of Theodoret. pag. 415. 31 T C. sayeth that the emperours Theodosius and Valentinianus wrytt vnto Dioscorus byshope of Alexandria that they had commaunded Theodoret byshope of Cyrus that he should kepe hym selfe vnto his owne Churche onlye wherebye it appeareth that he medled in more Churches then was meâ—re he should Master Whytgifte sayeth this is an vntruthe and a foule ouersight and that he hath delt very corruptly in this matter For the Emperours meaninge was nothinge ells but that Theodoret shoud kepe hym selfe at home and not come to the Synode excepte the whole Synode woulde admitt hym You shall heare the very wordes of the Epistle whereby you maye iudge what there meaninge was and what corruption is vsed by T. C. in this matter Sacerdotalem enim conuentum non nisi quis maâ—â— propria conscientia sauciatus euâ—â—at Theodoretum sanâ— Episcopum Cyri ciuitatis quem pridem â—ussimus suae soli vacare Ecclesiae sancimus non prius ad sanctam Synodum conuenire nisi vniuerso sancto placuerit conuenienti concilio ipsum concurrere pariter interesse For none wil auoyde the assemblie of Priestes except he be wounded with his owne euill conscience In deede Theodoret the byshope of the citty Cyrus whome before this tyme we haue commaunded to attend vpon his owne Churche onlye we decree that he come not to the holy Synode except it shall please all the whole holy councell that is assembled that he shall be compted one of them and be present with them Here you see that Theodoret is not only forbydden to come to the councell at suche tyme as it was sommoned but also commaunded to attend wpon his owne Churche onlye before that tyme â–ª whereby a reasonable man maye gather reasonably that he medled with more Churches theâ— his owne before he was commaunded there contrarie 32 He vttereth a verye vncharitable vntruthe of the worthy man M. Iewell byshope of Sarisburye pag. 422. 32 If that which T.C. teacheth be the doctrine of the Gospell as he is perswaded then the B. was to blame to call it wantonnes And when M. Whytgifte hath proued that it is not the doctrin of the Gospell he maye compt it wantonnes also But vntill this controuersye be decided the matter of vntruthe is in suspence 33 He sayeth that in the councell of Antioche it appeareth that the byshope of the Metropolitane seate called Synodes and propounded the matters whiche were to be handled and that it was his office to see that the byshopes kepte them selues within there owne Diocesse and he quoteth the 9. Canon where no suche thinge is to be founde pag 435. 33 It is true that T. C. sayeth of the councell of Antioche â–ª and appeareth in diuers Canons althoughe the quotation be vntrue which is lyke to be sett out of place by the printer because that sone after it should come in wher it is sayd â–ª that the 34 Canon falsly called of the Apostells is borrowed of the councell of Antioche whiche is in deede the 9 Canon As for this that T. C. sayeth the Metropolitane dyd call Synodes appeareth in the 14 Canon and dyd see that byshopes should kepe them within there owne diocesse in the 13. Canon The same maye be gathered also by other Canons of that councell and master doctor confesseth that these thinges pertaine to the Metropolitane office therefore it is a poore spyte that he vttereth against the quotations in the margent 34 He hâ—the addâ—th and detracteth from the 34. Canon attributed to the Apostells pag 439. 34 The wordes of the Canon be not recited and I can not perceiue any addinge or detractinge from the meaninge The wordes of the Canon be The byshopes of euery nation ought to know who is chiefe amonge them whom lett them esteme as there heade and do nothinge without his knowledge beside those thinges only that pertaine to euery mans owne Parishe And the townes that are vnder it nether lett hym do anye thinge in ther Parishes without the knowledge of them all Of this Canon T. C. gathereth that the Metropolitane in auncyent tyme might doe nothinge in other byshopes Parishes without the consent of all the byshopes of his prouince and that euery byshope might doe that whiche appertaineth to his owne parishe without the Metropolitane and he nothinge to doe with hym in it These laste wordes And he nothinge to do with hym in it are sayd to be added to the Canon The detraction is layde to be of these wordes And the places subiect to it so that where as T. C. sayd that euery byshope might do that whiche appertained to his owne parishe he should haue added and the places subiect
muste shewe where Augustine doth allowe it T. C. doth not say that Augustine doth dissallow it but that he doth not allowe of it 41 He alleageth M Beza in his annotations for that whiche can not be founde in them pag 584. 41 Though master Whytgifte nor none of his searcherâ— can fynde it yet I am perswaded that it is not forged by T. C. there be diuerse editions of that woorke perhaps master doctor hath not throughly sought them all and the place it not materiall for this is Beza his iudgment that a Deaconâ— should nether preache nor baptize but only prouide for the poore 42 He sayeth â–ª that yf we will take the nature of the Sacrament so straightlye 〈◊〉 Auguctiâ—e dâ—th and that there be no Sacramentes but when as to the element there commeth the wordâ— theÌ„ circuncision can be â—o Sacrament whiche is a grosse vntruth for in circuncision ther is both the worde the element pag 618 42 Master doctor sayth the foreskinn is the element it maye be aunswered that is vnaptly compared with water â—reade and wyne for they are gyuen and the foreskynn is taken awaye But it is nether to nor fro for the worde of God added to an externall signe whether it be an element or no maketh a Sacrament except Augustine by an element in that place vnderstand an outward sygne 43 He sayth that the Eldership was moste florishinge in Constantines tyme but he noteth no place where we maye fynde his sayinge to be true pag 651. 43 He noteth no place where his sayinge maye be founde true therefore this is the thre and fourteth vntruthe or falsyfication a sounde argument and meete for a doctor to vse 44 He is greatly deceyued about the excommunicatinge of Apollinaâ—ie and sheweth manifest tokens that ether he hath not hym self read the storye or that he hath read it very negligentlye as it is playnly declared in the defence pag 669. 44 He is no more deceiued then master Whytgifte in the same place mistakinge Theodoretus for Theodotus For althoughe he mistake the circunstaunce of tyme concerning the excommunication of Apollinaris yet those phrases whiche he alleageth out of that chapter serue to proue that althoughe the byshope alone dyd pronounce the sentence of excommunication yet it was not decreed against any man by one byshopes only auctoritie as is moste manifeste to them that knowe the hystorie of that tyme althoughe it be often sayd that suche a byshope dyd excommunicate which is none otherwyse to be vnderstande then these sayinges the Emperoure or the Prince hath made a lawe whiche nâ—uertheles is made by the Senate or Parliament of which the Emperour or Prince is chiefe 45 He falsefyeth Ambrose pag. 670. 45 If T. C haue not rightlye collected out of Ambrose â–ª that which maketh for his purpose yet he can not be iustlye accused to haue falsefyed Ambrose there is great difference betwen a falsyfication and a wronge collection But letting master Whytgifte haue his vncharitable termes I see not but that T C doth gather as probably out of Ambrose that he dyd not alone of his oâ—ne auctorytie excommunicate the Emperour Theodosius and more probably too then mastâ—r Whytgifte dothe affirme that he dyd it alone because all the prayse is geuen to hym by Theodoret and Soâ—omene For yf a Synode were gathered about that matter as T. C sheweth out of Ambrose it is not lyke that it was onlye to lament and take the matter in euell parte as master doctor sayth but rather to consult hereof and by whom discipline shold be exercised towarde the Emperour to bring hym to repentaunce and to take away the offence and the same maye be gathered also out of those wordes of Ambrose for any thinge that master Whytgifte proueth to the contrarye Non erat facti tui absolutio in Ambrosii Communione The absolution of thy fact was not in the communicatinge with Ambrose Moreouer the practise of that tyme fauoreth the collection of T. C for at that tyme and longe after excommunications were decreed by Synodes 46 He alleadgeth a place of Tertullian very deceiptfullye pag 673. 46 After Tertullian hath shewed the maner of the Congregations in prayer and preachinge he commeth thirdly to declare what is there discipline in these words In the same congregation are vsed exhortations reprehensions and the diuine Censure For iudgement is executed with great waighte as amonge them that are suer they be in the syght of God And it is the greatest conclusyon of the last iudgement that shal be yf a man haue so offended that he is banished from the communication of prayer and of the assemblies and of all holy affayres Approued seniors doe gouern this action which haue obteined this honor not by monye but by good report T. C. sayth If there be any that hath committed such a faulte that he is to be put awaye from the partakinge of the prayers of the Churche and from all holye matters There do beare rule or be presydents certaine of the moste approued Auncients or Elders whiche haue obteined this honor not by monye but by good reporte What deceyte is here Forsoothe Tertullian maketh a full poynte of these wordes all holy affaires beginning a new sentence sayth approued seniors c. T C. hath ioyned these into one sentence O craftye conueâ—â—nce it is pitty that he lyueth But shall I be playne with you yf euer any man dyd goe aboute to peruerte a wryters meaninge master Whytgifte dothe so here When he sayth thâ—â— it can not be gathered of these wordes that these seniors dyd excommunicate I had as leise he tould me the soâ—ne doth not shyne when it is noone tyde But what nede-furder proffe when he hym selfe geueth it ouer afterward and sayth he will not denye but that they had to doe in excommunication Then why doth he quarell before and chardg T.C. with vntruthe for saying that which he hym selfe will not denye 47 He sayeth that Augustine in his bookes De bapt contra Donatistas sheweth that yf the moste of the people be infected with the faulâ—e with is to be punished that 〈◊〉 no excommunication ought to be attempted for because a suffycient nomber of voyces will not be obteined for the excommunication â–ª wheâ—as these wordes For because a suffycient nomber of voyces c. are not to be founde in these bookes of Augustine pag. 675. 47 Master doctor is allwayes harpinge vpon the wordes when T C. standeth only vpon the matter and reporteth not the wordes For althoughe be can not fynde those wordes yet he hath not shewed the contrary out of those bookes but that sainte Augustine is of that iudgement which T C. reporteth hym to be 48 He maketh aâ— vntrue reporte of the 10. Canon of the councell of Antioche pag. 682. 48 This is a verye false Censure concerninge the 10. Canon of the councell of Antioche as euery man that readeth that Canon will confesse and master doctor hym selfe also yf it please hym to reade it