the Papists Idolaters But that is impossible for you to do You will perhaps to little purpose cite the names of certain Calvinistical Writers that as you hypocritically called themselves English Protestants but withall you will take notice that all very Protestants have laughed at them some have been angry and demonstrated the direct Negative If you were a live member of the English Church you would know that the English Church would be no Church if the Pope were Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters For would you acknowledg that to be a Church that enjoyes her whole Authority and Jurisdiction from Antichrist and Idolaters Is she not rather a member and abortive of Antichrist This is plain reason Mr. Bagshaw and consequently the inference is undeniable That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with the Roman Church 17. You proceed against Mr. Thorndike He insinuates say you that we may lawfully pray for the Dead Your proof I told you that this is against Protestancy must be to shew where the English Church has repealed the Antient Canons commanding Prayer for the Dead That will be a hard task On the contrary You your selves object against the Common-Prayer-Book that there is a clause in it that not only insinuates it to be lawful but actually exercises prayer for the dead And you know that within the time of the four first General Counsels received in England above twelve hundred years ago your Progenitors were by the Universal Church declared Hereticks for denying it Yea moreover that there was never extant any Liturgy or Missal in the Church of Christ Eastern or Western wherein there were not prayers for the dead 18. You go on Mr. Thorndike against the Doctrine of the Church of England saies That we may expect some benefit by the prayers of souls departed I suppose holy soules are meant Where does the Church of England contradict this nay more except you will acknowledg your self to be a Socinian and deny that the souls of dead persons have any subsistence at all with perception and use of rational faculties you your self will not be so shameless as to deny what you here lay to Mr. Thorndikes charge For I know none that call themselves Christians except Socinians but acknowledg that the glorified Saints do pray at least in general for the Church Militant Now if they all do pray for us all will you not permit us to expect some benefit by their prayers Must we maintain that all their prayers are to no purpose O but you infer That this in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them As for this inference which is not your defendants but only your own give me leave to tell you That if you believe that the Saints pray for the Church in general it would be no hard matter by one Syllogisme to oblige you to acknowledge that we may pray to God that he would hear and grant their prayers making them beneficial to us And now search all the Solemn Offices and Missals of the Roman Church mark the prayers that occurrs every Saints Feast you will find no other formes but such as that The prayer is alwayes directed to God alone immediately and he is desired to grant us such and such blessings by the intercession of such Saints And if in less solemne Devotions as Litanies Antiphons c. we say Sancte Maria Sancte Michael Sancte Petre ora pro nobis we are by the Church obliged to no other meaning then as before and we imitate express Scripture Laudate Deum omnes Angeli ejus omnes Sancti ejus c. Cardinal Perron will assure you that our prayers to Saints is only prier pour prier a devout wishing that they would pray for us And truly for my part I do heartily wish all the Saints in heaven to intercede in their prayers with God that he would vouchsafe to give you and us all a sincere love both to truth and peace 19. I have reserved your most criminal charge till the last which you thus express If it be not the intent of some to returne into Aegypt I cannot imagine Preface what means the crying up of that great Diana of the Papists the Churches authority and making that the sole interpreter of Scripture What Religion can you possibly be of and talk thus You in your own person standing alone are not a Church If you be but one member of a Church what ever it be as long as you are so you are subject to it it must have Authority over you the Spirit of one Prophet must be subject to an assembly of Prophets are you an Independent much freedom is implyed in that Title yet I believe your Lay Church will think it has authority enough to oblige you not to interpret Scripture for the advantage of that court of Inquisition the Classes of the Presbytery Are you a Presbyterian Your private reason shall be yoaked and chained with bonds strong enough and heavy enough to keep it from stirring to the prejudice of the Holy brethren and Sisters But you will needs call your self an English Protestant and yet will dare to revile all the Authority in your Church boldly protesting that it shall not interpret Scripture for you Your private reason shall over-master it Unless it confesse it self to be no Church that is to have no Authority to oblige its members to receive the sence of scripture from her you will be revenged by bellowing aloud This is the crying up of the great Diana of the Papists Truly I must needs say the Church of England is a very patient Church if she suffer you to speak this Bedlam language and injoy a Benefice too 20. But you do well though you mean very ill when you call this the Diana of the Papists Since you imply that a true obliging Authority if any where can only be found in the Catholick Church As for Sects that have no Succession of Ordination for such to assume Authority and Jurisdiction in matters of Religion is ridiculous even to common sence for it implies that to be men which have an ordinary use of reason is a sufficient qualification to become Ecclesiastical Teachers and Governours The Clergy of England challenging a lawful Ordination have some pretension to a real Authority and if they could justify themselves free from the guilt of Schisme even we Roman Catholicks could not deny but their Authority would oblige in conscience and under the penaltie of damnation because then it would be an Authority participating that of the whole Catholick Church and acting in union with it But of this somewhat more in the last part of this Discourse 21. I do apprehend Mr. Bagshaw that if you make any reply to this you will instead of speaking to the purpose endeavour to aggravate the cause of Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike by saying at adventure that there is a secret intelligence between the Papists and them and that they do
Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
be pardon'd had you only said I fear or I suspect this But sure there is not any Christian except Mr. Bagshaw whose Religion would allow him to say I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable that is in effect I hope in God that his Lordship is both an Atheistical Hypocrite professing a Religion contrary to his conscience and withall that his Hypocrisie against the nature of that sin is sencelesly void of all worldly pretentions since he counterfeits a Religion that he knowes is ruinous to his fortunes Is this your Theological vertue of Hope Truly it becomes you well Your Faith Hope and Charity I see are all of a piece 6. It may be you knew some Great Men that for some ends you could permit to strain their consciences so far as to profess a Religion that themselves are able to confute But sure they will be no losers by it whatever becomes of ther souls care shall be taken that their worldly Estate shall thrive by it They will declare for a Sect where money abounds and where power and Offices may be shared That is of all Religions in England they will take heed of the Catholick 7. Indeed if you understood what Catholick Religion is you would never say so much as I suspect c. and if you knew what Christian Religion is you would never have said I hope such an abominable so unreasonable a thing In your Sect I conceive such an Hypocrisie may be practised at a cheaper rate But in Catholick Religion no Man can commit that sin alone it must necessarily be attended with most horrible sacriledge and a solemn profanation of two Sacraments Pennance and the Holy Eucharist Therefore I hope that you have been bold to bely your self when you said I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable I have a better opinion of you then you desire I should 8. As for the Author of Fiat Lux complained Fiat Lux Epist Deâ—â—â—â—â— of by you to your Honourable Patron in the Epistle Dedicatory where you lay to his charge Blasphemies that you good man tremble to mention If you had sincerely related those passages and were they considered not as standing alone but with the dependance on what is delivered before they will be so far from deserving to be called Blasphemies that no sober charitable Reader will deny them to be simple unstrain'd Truths And if you think good to reply to these papers I here undertake to justifie those passages in the proper true sence that the Author apparently meant them Which that it is no hard matter to do I will shew you presently His first passage related by you is this In my judgment saith he Christ our Lord hath no less shewn his Divinity and power in the Pope then in himself And all things considered I may truly say that Christ in the Pope and Church is more miraculous then in his own person My reason to demonstrate the truth of this which is the Authors too is this because the preservation of the Church in Unity and Truth under the Government of supream Pastours without interruption for sixteen hundred years and more amongst so many tryals and oppositions is a greater effect of a Divine power in Christ then he shew'd in prolonging his own personal life for about thirty three years 9. And as to the second passage viz. That the first great Fundamental of Christian Religion which is the truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for the Pope had failed long ago in the World So that I may truly say that Christ is the Popes God For if the Pope had not been or had not been so vigilant a Pastor as he is Christ had not been taken now for any such person as he is believed this day Consult your books and the whole Series of Ecclesiastical Story will inform you that the Pope by means of Councels of the Western Church assembled by his Authority was he alone that instrumentally destroy'd Arianisme and other Heresies denying the Divinity of Christ which for some ages had in a manner poyson'd all the East 10. And lastly without much boasting I may with him conclude This I may boldly say and am assured of that if the Pope be not an unerring Guide in affairs of Religion that way I mean that I have shewn him in all ages to have exercised his Guidance by General Councils all is lost For this is no other then what with all Catholicks I have asserted and will positively justifie that the authority of the Church in her supream Tribunals is the only assured means of preserving the Church in Unity as being an Authority from which no Appeals must be admitted that is being Infallible These therefore you see are no such Blasphemies as to put you into a fit of trembling 11. I do now expect Sir unless God inspire more charity into your heart that you will make loud complaints of the presumption of your Roman Catholick adversary for daring to defend his Religion against your evident mistakes and the cause of all his profession from the trayterous imputation of a Dependence on a forreign authority most unjustly by you laid to their charge like the ancient Gladiatour you will accuse us for avoyding your blows and thrusts and because we do not recipere totum gladium But this Confidence is the effect of our Innocence only which as the Scripture says Gives the boldnesse of a lyon Nay it is for your sake if you please however it is for our Countreys sake that we beg no more innocent blood may be laid to its charge But if it must still be spilt we had rather you should be our Executioners than any other We give Almighty God and the Parliament most humble thanks that we have been permitted to wipe off the scandal of Infidelity from our Religion This we triumph in Hereafter if we suffer we call God to witness and the whole Kingdom I mean English Protestants that it will be purely our Conscience our Religion our love of Peace and Unity that we suffer for for all manner of security we have and ever will give of being faithfull quiet good Subjects all Oaths expressing only our obligation to Fidelity or acknowledgment of the Kings temporal Supreamacy we will take Does it not become then such Sufferers to be confident Does it not become such lovers of their Countrey to wish that no more guilt may lye upon it True it is we look upon your party as our Murderers you give us up into their hands you kill us with their swords They are inclin'd to mercy being satisfyed of our Innocency but you threaten to set the Kingdom on fire with your crying out Popery if they spare us We do not expect from his Majesty that for our sakes though his most loyal Subjects he should take upon himself the envy that you would raise against him We beseech him he would not indeed he ought not to do it considering the mischief that
he punish them for no fault at all 4. But give me leave now Mr. Bagshaw to ask Who are you of what Sect Of what Church Common report gives you for a Presbyterian a man formerly very busie in the Intrigues of that Faction Yet some passages in your Preface and Epistle Dedicatory speak you an Independent in which you call your self an Assertor of Christian Liberty complaining of the keenness of Laws against such a disliker of Episcopal Authority as setled in England and one that refuses to admit the interpretation of Scripture from any Person or Church but only from your own private Reason Most likely it is you reserve in petto a Declaration whether party you mean to adhere to till you see how they are likely to thrive till then you would pass for an Amphibion And truly such a temper among you threatens much danger to the State When Pilate and Herod are made friends Christ must look to himself 5. If you be an Independent on all others will you not suffer others to be Independent likewise on you Or if you be a Presbyterian are you not content with enjoying hitherto the fruits of his Majesties most gracious promise from Breda None pretend more then you to tender consciences Have any call'd you in question for differences in Religion But this it seems will not serve your turn Nor an Independents turn Your tender conscience will not accept of the only condition that his Majesty annexes to this his Grace which is That you must not disturb the peace of the Kingdom This most just and necessary condition you here in your Preface renounce in which you again blow the Trumpet to sedition by telling the World that English Divines are bringing in Popery If that were true as long as it may be permitted to you to be Presbyterians or Independents among your selves what do you complain of Will you never leave this peevish this malicious envy not to content your selves with your own safety unless others be ruin'd 6. But it is intolerable that you should call your selves in your Preface We Protestants and talke of our Reformed Church of England or our Ancestors Our primitive protestancy c. Are you an English Protestant a member of the English Church established by Law and Canons Why then do you not submit peaceably to the government of your Bishops and indifferent Ceremonies Why do you reject the Book of Common Prayer enacted by supreme authority both Spiritual and Temporal to be the publick Liturgy of the protestancy of England Why do you find fault with the keenness of Laws against such Assertors of Christian Liberty The very titles you assume of Presbyterian or Independent declare that your formal essence consists in an opposition to English protestancy and prelacy You pilfer therefore the name of an English Protestant ut sportulam furunculus to use Tertullians phrase Or rather you are English protestants as Salvian says some in his time were Christians in opprobium contumeliam Christi 7. But you are wise in your generations you know you could do no mischief unless you took a vizard For if you had spoken in your Preface the true Language of a Sectary if directing your speech to English Protestants you had said I Mr. Edward Bagshaw Student of Christ-Church a very Presbyterian or Independent a professed Rebell against the English Church do out of my tender love and care of the welfare and promotion of the said Church give you O English Protestants warning to take heed of Popery for the bringing in of which among you Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike and God knowes how many more are preparing way the Bishops are of intelligence with them and the State connives at them Therefore look to your selves All we can do is to blow the Trumpet and tell you once more how couragiously we will lead you to a thorough Reformation If you have neither zeal for God nor knowledge of your own strength 't is none of our fault Little do you know that we Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists Quakers e. are again become good friends and will joyne together to put down this Antichristian Hierarchy and when we are to divide their lands it will be time to try which of us can get most Now a beater Meane we have not for such a purpose then as formerly we did to cry out Beware of Popery Take heed of your Antichristian Clergy c. 8. If you had unwisely discovered your thoughts with such plainnesse your open dealing would have shewed some sincerity some appearance of the simplicity of the Dove but little of the subtle wisdom of the Serpent a quality much more for your purpose Notwithstanding your vizard being quite worne out your calling your selves English Protestants will not have the effect it had in your former happy dayes twenty years since Your Voice is too well known now not to be Jacobs There is scarce an English subject so ignorant or of so short a memory but can take notice that this was the Old Tune that sounded to a charge and invited them to kill one another for Charities sake and to suffer you know whom to murther the best King that ever reigned before him The difference between the two Brethren in iniquity being only this One did but fight against him and the Other killed him One bound his hand and the other cut off his head They will be so far from startling at the name of Popery out of your mouthes that perhaps they may begin to entertain a better opinion of a Religion so persecuted by you especially remembring that the Papists never separated their interests from the Kings and Theirs but unanimously ventured their lives and estates for them and this purely out of love Duty and conscience even when all they could expect by a victory was to remain still under the penalty of the Laws 9. Therefore a disguise is necessary for you whensoever you would speak except to your own Party in private It had been folly in extremity to say We Presbyterians Independents c. do give you English Protestants warning to beware of your Doctours that would bring in Popery It had been apparently to your own prejudice unless you had said We tell you this who are true Reformed English Protestants of the same Church with you your Pastours who have care of your souls whom you see no man hinders from preaching in your Pulpits and writing Books to Preach to those that cannot hear us in Pulpits If we were enemies would the Civill or Ecclesiastical State think you allow us such a liberty and maintain us at their charges to Preach and Print as we do 10. But I do assure you Mr. Bagshaw you are no English Protestant For what is it to be an English Protestant or a member of the English Church This is a question of greater moment then ordinarily is believed The very subsistence of Protestant Religion in England now depends upon the right stating of it
Nay I may truly say that even we Roman Catholicks are much concerned in it and therefore I may be pardoned if I insist upon it because unless this question be resolved all our disputes with Protestants are likely to prove meer beating of the air contentions utterly wandring from the purpose Therefore I may be excused if I take the trouble upon me to resolve it and this I must do not upon Catholick grounds or notions of the phrase being members of a Church but only the notions which Protestants and generally all Sects divided from the Catholicks have entertained of that phrase For Catholicks do not esteem any one a member of the Roman Catholick Church that doth not profess all Doctrines without exception taught by it to be true and submits not to all the Lawes and Ordinances of it There is no distinction to be made as to this matter between Doctrines in themselves Fundamental or non-Fundamental between Lawes in themselves necessary or not because a refusal to accept any one of those Lawes or Doctrines does vertually destroy the Authority of the Church of how little concernment so ever such a Doctrine or Ordinance be in it self There may be differences and even dissentions among Catholicks about points of far greater moment in themselves and yet neither of the parties be in danger of being excluded from the Title of Catholiks or members of the Roman Catholick Church because the Churches Authority has not interposed it self in those disputes either way and therefore is untouched by either 11. But generally all Congregations divided from the Catholick have a quite different conceit of the Phrase being Members of a Church And this conceit is either general or more special According to the general conception of that phrase they acknowledge all to be members of their Church or rather co-members of the Church of Christ that do not teach doctrines or make ordinances excluding all right and interest in the common salvation and thus English protestants esteem themselves members of the Catholick Church and Lutherans of the Calvinists Church and you Presbyterians Independents c. of the English protestant Church because they do not deny a possibility of salvation to one another notwithstanding the differences among them 12. The second and more special notion of the phrase being Members of a Church entertained by all particular Congregations not Catholick does import an external conformity in all Doctrines without exception and all practises determined by each congregation respectively a renunciation of any excluding the refusers from an external communion and participation of the priviledges of that Congregation who notwithstanding may be acknowledged to be almost in as good a condition as to salvation as those are which exclude them from their external Communion Thus Lutherans are not Calvinists though they believe Calvinists may meet them in heaven because they will not admit them to their communion Thus you Presbyterians and Independents c. are no English protestants as long as you are Non-Conformists Let the differences between you be never so small as wearing a Surplice Kneeling at Communion c. if these Ceremonies be established by Lawes Ecclesiastical or Civil the non-submission to them is a manifest dividing from that Church and the less considerable the quarrels are the greater is the guilt of those that publickly dispute or write against that Church of which they desire to be thought members True it is you would seem to have some reason to complain against the English Church if for such trifling differencies only they should pronounce you excommunicated from Christs Mystical Body though they must give me leave to say That by not doing so but acknowledging your Congregations to be members of the Church they do manifestly conclude themselves guilty of Schisme by such a communication with you whom they cannot deny to be Schismaticks But it would be ridiculous in you to accuse them of Tyranny for excluding you from their External Communion when you your selves will not embrace it They do not pretend to an Authority to oblige you in conscience to believe that their Doctrines are true and their Ordinances just but they would be no Church they would renounce all Order if they did not maintain the laws and customes with so great deliberation and after so many disputes with you framed and renewed Where there is no Uniformity even in external matters there is no Church but a Babel If at Communion some should sit others stand others lye along as our Lord did and others kneel if some should be bare-headed others with their hats on would it looke like an assembly of men that served God Therefore complain not but rather thank God and them if they force not your consciences but permit you to abstain from things you do not like and to practice among your selves things you like better But to expect to be acknowledged members of a Church whilst you refuse to submit to the authority of that Church in things of themselves not evil much more whilst you write publickly against them is to desire them not to pretend to the name of a Church Therefore I conclude that you Mr. Bagshaw are no more a member of the English Church then I am and my proofe is this very Preface of your Book that I now write against Your saying that Episcopacy is lawful or your being ordained by Bishops signifies nothing as long as you disobey them you are none of their subjects 13. However I cannot blame you if in despight of English protestants themselves you will needs be called English protestants For if being as really you are no true members of the English Church you were treated as such that is excluded from a participation of the emoluments of it and obliged to a separated exercise of your ill-natur'd Religion two great incommodities would ensue to you and withal two as proportionably great benefits to them and the whole Nation 14. For First What pittiful Congregations would you in a short time appear to be At present your numbers especially in Cities and Towns are not unconsiderable Whereas if being no members of the English Church you were excluded from participating Tithes Benefices and other preferments not at all due to you and had no other maintenance but the Voluntary contributions of your own party you would quickly find that Party weary of you and become rather content to hear a sermon in the Church and wholesome prayers in a Surplice then to pay so much overplus for far worse stuffe in a parlour from a short cloak and no cassack 15. The Second Mortification thence flowing would be yet more intolerable Hitherto the facility of Bishops giving you leave to call your selves English protestants and members of their Church enables you to defile their Churches by doing your own businesse in them to their great prejudice and danger In their pulpits you cry down Ceremonies you preach against their government you sow sedition in the hearts of their flock
and I much fear You will never have the honesty to imitate them 3. Observe one thing I pray You in such Protestations and writings of Roman Catholicks They do not deprecate any former faults committed because they are guiltie of none they protest their clearness from those crimes of a few desperate unhappy monsters and writings of their traiterous Masters that occasioned the severity of Laws against all They do not mention their universal fidelitie to the King these last twentie Years as an obligation or merit for which they expect reward from men but as a necessary duty to which their Religion bound them and which if they had not performed they should have incurred a curse from God Yet all this perhaps will not satisfie You. But see our different Complexion for my part though there were not one of Your supposed Religion but were deeply ingaged in infidelity to the King yet if You would only acknowledg that a fault was committed is repented of and a promise made of Loyalty for the future I should hope well and wish You might be believed and confided in for the future 4. Next as to the Clergy Your accusation Preface is most heavy and punctual when You say I need not plead for the not persecuting of Poperie c. when some that yet professe themselves to be of our Church and those of good note too are not afraid to plead for somthing more then its Toleration Since by telling us in print that the Pope is not Master Thorndike in Weights and Measures Antichrist That Papists are not Idolaters nay by affirming That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with them they not only blemish the vertue and piety of our first Reformers who all built upon that foundation but likewise shew how willing they are upon any termes how wretched and unworthie soever to returne into Egypt and bring us to our Brick and bondage again If this be not the interest of some I cannot imagine what means the crying up of that Great Diana of the Papists the Churches Authority and making that the sole Interpreter of Scripture The Dr. Gunning upon Math. 9. preaching up of Lent and other political Fish daies as Religious Fasts and of Apostolical Institution quite contrary M. Thorndike ut suprà both to express scripture and an Act of Parliament The insinuating that we may lawfully pray for the dead and likewise expect some benefit by their prayers which in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them These with some other opinions of the like nature so far degenerating from our primitive protestancy do shew that if the Age is willing to be deceived there are not wanting learned men who are willing enough to deceive them 5. This authority that You Mr. Bagshaw take upon You to proscribe all protestants that dare not profess such a detestation of Catholick Vnity as Your party does is alone sufficient to demonstrate how much the English Clergy does neglect their own preservation whilst they permit such as You to call your selves protestants and members of their Church your waies and interests being so directry opposed to theirs 6. All England almost has lately heard Archbishop of Canterbury laid to the charge of the late most unjustly murdered Archbishop of Canterbury as the most heavy point of his accusation that he had a desire of restoring England to Catholick unity Yet there was not produced any proof at all that for that end he deserted any necessarie and essential Doctrines of his own Church the mere desire of unity was his crime A crime that he willingly acknowledged and as he had reason joyfullie boasted of And certainly that Christian must needs be full of a Spirit not from heaven that hates unitie quatenus ipsam Now what my Lord Archbishop desired and died for I am perswaded there is scarce any true genuine English protestant but does commend in him and would not refuse occasion being given to imitate him in 7. If you read Bishop Andrews his works both English and Latine You Bishop Andrews will even in his Controversies against Catholicks find a wonderful caution not to aggravate or multiply differences great care to prevent misintelligence and an exactness in stating disputed points with a most studied impartiality very oft with condescendence Nay even in his sermons before the Court in which his heart only spoke as as an Embassadour for God what pangs may one perceive in his soul when he speaks upon this subject and reflects on the aversion that some who like You call themselves protestants have from Catholick peace and Unitie Hearken to this one passage in his first Sermon on Pentecost Who shall make us of one accord High shall his reward be in heaven and happy his remembrance on earth that shall be the means to restore this accord to the Church that once we may keep a true and perfect Pentecost like this here Erant omnes unanimiter It was a restoring of unity that he so much thirsted after which word shewes that he had a respect to the Catholick Church from which only a separation was made 8. And Doctour Steward likewise a person as replenished with learning prudence Doctour Steward and vertue as any of his time he so longed after this unitie that in his last Will he gave order it should be the argument of the Inscription on his Tombe And no doubt there is but such an Inscription would make it lighter that is render his future condition better 9. These wothy persons were indeed English protestants like those You now arraign They knew the true composition of their own Chuch A Church though I must needs say not firmly built yet however erected by advice of persons in Authority persons of honour and judgment not as Geneva Holland and Cromwels Independent Church by a rebellious Army of Tradesmen They knew that at the first framing of the English Church a way was not so wholly given to passion but that when certain interests of a few great persons were complied with and several too justly complained of Gravamina from the Roman Court remedied there might be a possibility of closing again with that Church which they then only so far deserted They knew there was never any intention so to forsake the Roman Church as if it were a Babel or seat of Antichrist but ever acknowledged it a true Church though not so well Reformed On the contrarie they knew and their successors do still to your hearts torment acknowledg that all the Ordination and spiritual Jurisdiction of the English Church is derived from the Roman which therefore must be a true Church if theirs be any 10. Upon such grounds as these no question my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury not only desired as all honest well minded Protestants do but also hoped that if by his authority and skill he could reduce the English church to that primitive State before your
set pen to Paper to answer you since if you be never so evidently confuted you are excused from yielding by saying you have said a very little but could have said more and Catholicks are forbidden to yield since they have a world of proofs to demonstrat the Infallibility of the Church far more efficacious then these one or two Texts of Scripture called out by you for your best advantage And even these Texts as they are produced and made use of by Catholicks are unanswerable especially to those that think it reasonable to admit that to be the sence of Scripture which all antiquity has given which all protestants and all reasonable men do They could not foresee that there could arise a Disputant so void of reason as Mr. Bagshaw to whom the whole consent of all Ages of the Church all Councils and Fathers appeared light and inconsiderable if compared with his single reason Therefore till you have proved that Ground demonstratively that is turned sand into a Rock you are not in a capacity either to object or answer 6. And to the end you may set upon such a work to some purpose I pray please to enquire out a Book called Exomologesis or Motives of the Conversion c. where your great Lanista Mr. Chillingworths reasons for such a position are pretended to be answered and in an Appendix to that Book You will find an Examination of the Fundamental Grounds of my Lord Faulklands Discourse on that Subject These are the men you brag of in Your Preface as your great Patrons that is indeed such Protestants as you are that lay such grounds as utterly demolish the whole structure of the English church denying that any Authority upon Earth can oblige any man And this very thing I mean the destruction of the Church of England you Preface your self confesse in your Preface to have Preface been the Design of your small Treatise though written against Papists adding that Nothing can be more unreasonable ib. then this that those Churches or Church-Rulers should Lord it over the Faith or conscientious perswasion of other men who are not certain but they may err and be deceived themselves For that would be to take the Pope's Chair and succeed into his room 7. This therefore having been by your self acknowledged your Design I must repeat what I have already said That the English Bishops and Clergy are far more interessed in your Book for all the Title be only against Catholicks then Catholicks are But as to this horrible position of Yours which utterly destroys all Order and peace Let me tell You that to particular Churches and Church-Rulers if they be members of the Catholick Church infallibility is not at all necessary to make their Doctrines or Orders obliging even in conscience Because all their subjects whilest they remain so are bound I do not say to believe internally but not to contradict their declared Doctrines and to submit to their Orders the refusing of either perhaps not damning but certainly excluding the refusers from an outward communion with that Church So that here you plainly exerto Capite tell the World you are no English protestant though perhaps you would fain have an English Benefice and preach against order in English pulpits 8. Now as for that Great Question of the Infallibility of the Church which You consider only as the conceit of some few Catholicks if You have a mind to write any thing to the purpose to prevent Your mistaking if that be a possible thing give a well-wishing friend leave to informe you in general That there is extant no formal Decision of the Church touching her own infallibility Notwithstanding all Catholicks are bound to acknowledge her to be infallible by a necessary consequence of an essential Article of the Creed Which consequence You may conceive to be thus deduced viz. 9. First it is an Article of our Creed Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam that is I believe one and but One holy Catholick and Apostolick Church By which Article sincerely professed the person declaring himself a Christian signifies a necessity of his being truly a member in Communion with that One Church and consequently renounces all other Congregations and all Ecclesiastical Communion with persons divided from that One Church 10. In the Second Place Your only Guide common sence and reason tells us that a multitude cannot be called One Society except they be joyned and linked together by a Government and Lawes common to all And therefore the whole Catholick Church being indeed one Body as St. Paul sayes and one General Congregation it must necessarily have both general Rulers and Common lawes universally obliging which does not at all hinder but that under and within that general Congregation there may be many distinct Societies enjoying particular Lawes Priviledges and Rulers upon condition they do not contradict nor refuse to submit to the said general Laws Tribunals and Governours 11. Thirdly our Lord having expressly promised to preserve and continue this Church as one Society to the end of the World so as that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it it followes undeniably that he has provided sufficient and efficacious means to preserve this unity for otherwise one Article of the Creed might happen to fail 12. In the fourth place since universal Experience both in Humane and Divine matters testifies that never any Writing Law or Science could yet be so expressed but that being left to the wits enlightned Reason and interests of particular men to descant upon them there would follow differences of sences and interpretations and consequently Divisions and separated interests destructive to unity to provide against which the only possible remedy hath alwaies been acknowledged to be the constituting of an External lasting Authority of Judges and Magistrates Hence it is that the Supreme Tribunal of a General Council has evermore hitherto been confessed by all Christians to be the only preservative against a breach in the universal Church and because it cannot alwaies be possible to summon such an Assembly therefore by way of provision the supreme Pastour of the Church hath alwaies exercised in matters that concern the common Faith and Discipline an Authority if not to decide at least to compose and silence all differences in Opinions c. and to put in Execution the Ordinances of precedent Councils 13. Now if You will discourse to any purpose in opposition to this as I know You have a great Tooth against it You must either demonstrate that there is no need at all that controversies should be composed and Schismes healed Or if You cannot do this You must contradict the Experience of all mankind by shewing that Judges are not necessary to end Law-suites that writings alone with enlightned reason will do the business and especially that above all Lawes and Sciences the Holy Scriptures that are in some places infinitely obscure and in plain places compiled in
a popular stile far from that studied exactness of Lawes and Sciences are most proper to have their sence agreed in This must be your task and to make it good it will be expected that You should do one miracle more which is to produce but one Example during sixteen hundred years and upwards taking in the Apostles times if You please to shew that differences in Religion have been prevented or composed and separations of divided Churches re-united by disputing out of Scriptures alone without submission to a common Tribunal On the contrary side we Catholicks will be obliged to shew you that all Heresies hitherto appearing have been so far destroyed by General Councils that the Church has been preserved in Unity and we are confident will be so for ever notwithstanding even so formidable an Adversaries opposition as you are 14. In the fifth place This great Tribunal of a General Council is of an Authority so authentick that no Appeal from it must be admitted Yea moreover it has influence not on the outward actions or professions only but even the judgments and hearts of all particular Catholick persons and Churches This appears not only by the universal agreement of all Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers past and present but by the solemn stile of the Decrees made by all such Councils in which Anathema's have been denounced against all Hereticks and Schismaticks and they separated from the Mystical Body of Christ to which alone Salvation is promised 15. In the last place therefore the Church being one and to keep it so Authority having been communicated to it by our Lord which Authority for that purpose must needs under penalty of an Eternal separation from Christ oblige all Christians to submit even their minds to it it seems to us that it followes necessarily and inevitably that the Church is infallible Unless we would say that our Lord has commanded us to hear such a Church and Guide as might lead us to Hell To prevent all suspicion of which he has expresly promised to lead not the Apostles only as you fancy but his Church into all Truth with whom he said he would be present to the end of the world thousands of years after the Apostles were dead 16. These you may suppose Mr. Bag. to be the true grounds of the Churches Infallibility It is Infallible because it is One but it is such an One from which as Separation is damnable So that if you a Presbyterian or Independent c. have a minde to assault these grounds then 1. You must first destroy that Article of our Creed I believe one Catholick Church 2. Next you must prove out of express Scripture not only that Scripture is our only Rule but that we have no other Guide to find out the sence of it but only our private reason or spirit and what these joyn'd together conclude upon will infallibly serve our turn whether it be true or false 3. That all the Antient Church and all Protestants too are mistaken when they say that Schism to you the most innocent thing in the World is a Sin a great exterminating sin for which there cannot possibly be a just cause or sufficient excuse 4. Lastly you must have the confidence befitting a Presbyterian to say that all Christians before you have been poor spirited sheepish deceived people that knew not what the Liberty of a Subject was and that all General Councils that presumed to denounce Anathema's against the private spirit or enlightned reason have been most abhorred conspiracies of Tyrants over Mens souls 17. Whereas if you were an English Protestant truly so called but the very supposition is unsufferable and therefore must be changed therefore I say whereas a true English Protestant would protest his readiness to submit both his tongue and soul to a lawful General Council and consequently would have no quarrel against the Infallibility of the Universal Church He would admit Tradition to be the best Interpreter of Scripture Only his Controversiehumour would spend it self against the Roman Churches pretention to the Title of Catholick and would maintain that the English State and Clergy had authority enough to reform themselves without consulting the Roman or any other Churches Indeed if the Eastern Church had still been in Union with the Roman the case then would be altered The English Church on such a supposition would have had a scruple to oppose both 18. Therefore since it is not in our power to oblige the Turk to permit the Eastern Bishops to meet in a General Council with the West for English Protestants sake not yours good Mr. Bagshaw I will take upon me a little more then your Book can require from me and that is to propose in the mean time a convenient mean and expedient towards the removing this scruple and that is as followeth 19. Since we cannot have speaking Judges that will please them they may I suppose do well to help themselves with Books and for that purpose pitch upon some well known time in which the Eastern and Western Churches were united and out of the Books and Monuments of that Age impartially collect the Doctrines then taught and the Church-government then in use through the whole Church For thereby it will evidently appear whether of the Churches Eastern or Western that now differ in both have deserted that which was anciently in both 20. Now I conceive a more proper time for this purpose cannot be imagined then the Age of the Church in St. Gregory the great 's time when England was converted from Paganisme by St. Augustin the Monk sent by him For it is evident that the whole Church was then in perfect Union the same Doctrines were taught and the same Government and Common laws in use all the Christian World over Besides there are extant more better and clearer Monuments both of the Doctrines and Discipline of that Age then in any other and especially in St. Gregories Epistles sent into all quarters of the World and in other of his works translated into the Greek tongue and freely embraced yea admired by the Greek Church we may find what Authority so learned and Holy a Pope exercised over other Churches according to the then received Ecclesiastical Canons Moreover besides S. Gregories Works our own Country both by wtitings of learned men Councils of Bishops and visible Marks in the foundation of Churches and Monasteries will most abundantly furnish us 21. Now when we have found what in that age was the Belief and practise of the whole Church uniformly Then we are to confront thereto the Doctrines and Discipline of the present Eastern and Western Churches Being assured that both of them have not deserted the Antient Belief and practise because if it were so there would not now be extant any Orthodox Church at all and consequently our Saviours promise of leading his Church into all Truth would have failed 21. Now when it shall appear unto us whether of these two great Churches hath