cometh hurt to all men for it wearieth the stedfast troubleth the doubtful and ensnareth the weak and simple yet because he saith he is not bound to answer your Lordship sitting for the Popes Holyness because of a Premunire and the Word of God as he pretends I think good somewhat to say that all men may see how he runneth out of his race of Reason into the rage of common Talk. And as the King and Queens Majesty will be glad to hear of your most charitable dealing with him so will they be weary to hear the blundering of this stubborn Heretick And where he alledgeth Divinity minling fas nefásque together he should not have been heard For shall it be sufficient for him to alledge the Judge is not competent and shall we dispute contra cum qui negat principia Although there be here a great company of learned men that know it unmeet so to do yet have I here a plain Canon whereby he is convicted ipso facto The Canon is this Sit ergo ruinae suae dolore prostratus quisquis Apostolicis voluerit contraire Decretis nec locum deinceps habeat inter Sacerdotes sed exors à sancto fiat Ministerio c. He hath alledged many matters against the Popes Supremacy but maliciously Ye say that the King in his Realm is Supream Head of the Church Well Sir you will grant me that there was a perfect Catholique Church before any King was Christened Then if it were a perfect Church it must needs have a Head which must needs be before any King was member thereof For you know Constantinus the Emperor was the first Christian King that ever was and although you are bound as St. Paul saith to obey your Rulers and Kings have Rule over the People yet doth it not follow that they have Cure of Souls For à fortiori the Head may do what the Minister cannot do but the Priest may consecrate and the King cannot therefore the King is not Head of the Church And where the Apostles do call upon men to obey their Princes cui Tributum Tributum cui Vectigal Vectigal the Exhortation extendeth only to Temporal matters they perceiving that men were bent to Liberty and Disobedience were enforced to exhort them to Obedience and Payment of their Tribute And again where you say that the Bishop of Rome maketh Laws contrary to the Laws of the Realm that is not true for this is a maxim in the Law Quod in particulari excipitur non facit universale falsum And as touching that monstrous talk of your Conscience that is no Conscience that ye profess it is but privata Scientia and Secta As yet you have not proved for all your glorious Babble that by Gods Laws ye ought not to answer the Popes Holiness The Canons which be received in all Christendom compel you to answer And although this Realm of late time through such Schismatiques as you were hath exiled and banished the Canons yet that cannot make for you for you know your self that pars in totum nihil statuere potest Wherefore this Island being indeed but a member of the whole Church could not determine against the whole And the same Laws that were put away by Parliament are now received again by a Parliament having as full Authority now as they had then And these Laws will now that ye answer to the Popes Holiness Therefore by the Laws of this Realm ye are bound to answer him This was materially replied to Cranmers words that he would never consent that the Bishop of Rome should have any Jurisdiction in England Wherefore my good Lord all that this Thomas Cranmer I cannot otherwise term him confidering his Disobedience hath brought for his Defence shall nothing prevail with you Require him therefore to answer directly to your good Lordship command him to set aside his Trifles and to be obedient to the Laws and Ordinances of this Realm take witness here of his stubborn Contempt against the King and Queens Majesties and compel him to answer directly to such Articles as we shall here exhibit against him and in refusal your good Lordship is to excommunicate him Thus Dr. Story Fox page 654 655. NOTE Here his Fidelity to the Laws so long as they serve his turn the King Queen Parliament and Laws were then Popish He was for the Laws made by himself and the Duke of Somerset under the Childhood of Edward 6. A. Did he answer nothing further to the Charge of Heresie B. Nothing but this He pulled an Appeal out of his left Sleeve says Fox which he dellvered to the Court saying I appeal to the next General Council And further I intend to speak nothing against one holy Catholique and Apostolical Church or the Authority thereof the which Authority I have in great Reverence and whom my mind is in all things to obey pag. 663. 3 vol. The very words of his Appeal A. What did he mean by one holy Catholique Church B. His Definition of it you may find in the Thirty nine Articles of the Church of England which Articles were framed as Burnet thinks by him and Ridley and first published anno 1551. p. 166. 2. vol. The visible Church of Christ saith the 19th Article is a Congregation of faithful men in the which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments duly ministred aceording to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same Now in the year 1556. when Cranmer presented this Appeal there could not be in his opinion any such National or Catholique Church visible on the face of the Earth A. I pray make that appear B. By an Induction of all the Churches in the world that then professed themselves Christians as the Roman the Eastern the Church of England the Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. the Roman in his opinion was but the Synagogue of Antichrist The Greek Church consented with the Roman in most of the Doctrines controverted betwixt Papists and Protestants as the Sacrifice of the Mass Adoration of the Eucharist Veneration of Images Invocation of Saints Prayer for the Dead c. and do consent at this day The Church of England was then newly reconciled to Rome and Catholique Bishops restor'd to their own Sees by Act of Parliament The Lutherans did then and at this day adore a corporal presence in the Sacrament and therefore cannot be said in his opinion to have the pure Word of God preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs Ordinance The Calvinists had no Orders of Priests and Bishops consequently no Church at all A. How no Church at all for want of Priests and Bishops let that appear I pray you B. Read the Church of Englands Preface to the Form appointed by her for making and consecrating of Bishops Priests and Deacons and there observe these words viz. It is evident unto all men diligently reading holy Scripture and ancient Authors that from the Apostles time
there hath been these Orders of Ministers in Christs Church Bishops Priests and Deacons which Offices were evermore had in such reverent estimation that no man by his own private Authority might presume to execute any of them except he were first called c. And Bishop Bramhall affirms with great assurance Among all the Eastern Southern and Northern Christians who make innumerable multitudes there neither is nor ever was one formed Church that wanted Bishops among all the Western Churches and their Colonies there never was one formed Church for 1500 years that wanted Bishops If there be any persons so far possessed with prejudice that they choose rather to follow the private dictates of their own Phrensy than the perpetual and universal practice of the Catholique Church enter not into their Secrets O my Soul. Bishop Bramhall Consecration of Protestant Bishops vindicated p. 431. of his Works printed at Dublin And you know the Church of Englands practice at this day which admits of no Calvinian Ministers into her Clergy without Episcopal Ordination NOTE Thus it appears by an Induction of all the several Denominations of Christians that in Cranmers opinion there could be no such National or Catholique Church extant upon the face of the earth anno 1556. as that which the Church of England defines Article 19th The visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithful men in which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same So that his saying I reverence the Authority of the Catholick Church was but an illusion or vain pretence to avoid the Censure of Heresie his Catholique Church at that time being like Terra incognita in our Maps not as yet found out What tolerable excuse Good Reader canst thou invent for this Reformer have Lutherans Papists Calvinists Anabaptists Socinians Greek Church c. all those things that of necessity are requisite to the preaching of Gods pure Word and due Administration of Sacraments according to Christs Ordinance If so then shew me a solid reason if thou canst why a Church of England man should not receive the Sacraments of all or any of these Sects If the Church of Rome have all those things that of necessity are requisite c. how or where shall Cranmer appear at the day of Judgment If she have not then how is she a Member of Christs visible Church as Protestants say she is A corrupt Member perhaps you will call her but if she wants any thing necessary or essential to a Christian Church she is no Member at all If she errs only in matters not Fundamental or non essential as is confessed by very learned Protestants she is secure still but thou art not secured from Schism If she holds all things necessary to Salvation and no Error that destroys the Christian Faith she may be saved and what more wouldst thou have But whether she does or does not hold any Errors destructive of Salvation I pray who shall be Judge Answer that short Question if thou wouldst say any thing to the purpose What Authority had Cranmer to call the Pope Antichrist more than the Pope had to pronounce him an Heretick He swore Obedience to the Pope which the Pope never did to him He divorced Queen Katherine styling himself Legatus a Latere as you may find in Burnet A. But he appealed to a General Council what did he mean by that B. Nothing but to divert the proceedings of the Court for he valued the Authority of General Councils as little as he did that of the Catholick Church A. Pray make that out B. Burnet acquaints you page 176. 1 Vol. He viz. Cranmer said some General Councils had been rejected by others and it was a tender point how much ought to be deferred to a Council And as all God's Promises to the people of Israel had this Condition implyed within them if they kept his Commandments so he thought the Promises to the Christian Church had this Condition in them if they kept the Faith Therefore says Burnet he had much doubting in himself as to General Councils and he thought that only the Word of God was the Rule of Faith which ought to take place in all Controversies of Religion This be said in the year 1534. NOTE The word of God admits of various Interpretations the Question is Who shall determine which is the true Interpretation a General Council or Cranmer 's private Spirit in Opposition to that Council But his Opinion of General Councils appears further from the XXI Article of the Church of England viz. General Councils when they are gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed by the Spirit and Word of God they may err and sometime have erred in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things Ordained by them as necessary unto Salvation have neither strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they be taken out of Holy Scripture NOTE But who shall take upon him to judge of the Decrees of General Councils whether they be Consonant to Scripture or not shall any single Person Or any particular Church Where is the Modesty of that Shall any inferiour Authority take upon it self to contradict or reverse the Decrees of a Superiour If so then why may not any single Minister or Bishop of the Reformed Church protest against the Judgment of a Protestant Convocation If he may not do it without Censure how shall the Church of England being but a particular Church take upon her self to damn and contradict the Faith of all the rest of the Christian World A. Shew me where she assumes any such Authority B. Read her XIX Article viz. as the Church of Jerusalem Alexandria and Antioch have erred so also the Church of Rome hath erred not only in their Living and manner of Ceremonies but also in matters of Faith. Then see the third part of her Homily against peril of Idolatry and observe these words So that Laity and Clergy learned and unlearned all Ages Sects and Degrees of Men Women and Children of whole Christendom an horrible and most dreadful thing to think have been at once drowned in abominable Idolatry and that by the space of eight hundred years and more NOTE Here the Doctrine of the Church of England that Christ had no Church upon earth for the space of eight hundred years and more before Cranmer The same Homily teaches further viz. and at the last the learned also were carried away with the publick Error as with a violent stream or flood And at the second Council of Nice the Bishops and Clergy decreed that Images should be worshipped and so by occasion of these stumbling Blocks not only the unlearned and simple but the learned and wise not only the People but the Bishops not the Sheep but also the Shepherds themselves who should have been Guides in the right way
thereof then the matter were not so great but in this we do forsake the first four General Councils which none ever forsook We renounce all Canonical and Ecclesiastical Laws of the Church of Christ we renounce all other Christian Princes we renounce the Unity of the Christian World I suppose he means by inventing to our Selves a Church of England divided from all the rest of the Christian World and so by leaping out of Peters Ship to be drowned in the unstable Waters of Heresie Sects Schisms and Confusions For the first General Council of Nice acknowledged Sylvester the Bishop of Rome his Authority to be over them by sending their Decrees to be ratifyed by him The Council of Constantinople did acknowledge Pope Damasus to be their Chief by admitting him to give Sentence against the Hereticks Macedonius Sabellius and Eunomius The Council of Ephesus acknowledged Pope Celestine to be their chief Judge by admitting his Condemnation upon the Heretick Nestorius The Council of Calcedon acknowledged Pope Leo to be their chief Head and all General Councils of the World ever acknowledged the Pope of Rome only to be Supream Head of the Church under Christ And now shall we set up another Head or one Head in England and another in Rome 3. We deny all Ecclesiastical Laws which do wholly depend upon the Authority of the Apostolick See of Rome 4 We renounce the Judgment of all other Christian Princes whether they be Protestants or Catholicks Nay by this argument Nero and Herod must have been Heads of the Church of Christ The Emperour must be Head of the Protestant Church in Germany And the Church of Christ must have never a Head at all till about three hundred years after Christ Fifthly The Kings Majesty is not susceptible of this Donation Ozias for medling with the Priests Office was resisted by Azarias thrust out of the Temple and told that it belongs not to his Office. Now if the Priest spake truth in this then is not the King to meddle in this business if he spake amiss why did God plague the King with Leprosie for this and not the Priest King David when the Ark of God was bringing home did he place himself in the head of the Priests Order did he so much as touch the Ark or execute any the least Office properly belonging to the Priestly Function or did he not rather go before and abase himself amongst the people and say that he would become yet more vile so that God might be glorified All good Christian Emperors have evermore refused Ecclesiastical Authority for at the first General Council of Nice certain Bills were privily brought unto Constantine to be ordered by his Authority but he caused them to be burnt saying Dominus vos constituit c. God hath ordained you Priests and hath given you Power to be Judges over us and therefore by right in these things we are to be judged by you but you are not to be judged by me Valentine the Good Emperor was desired by the Bishops to be present with them to reform the Heresie of the Arrians but he answered Forasmuch as I am one of the Members of the Lay people it is not lawful for me to define such Controversies but let the Priests to whom God hath given the charge thereof assemble where they will in due Order Theodosius writing to the Council of Ephesus saith It is not lawful for him that is not of the holy Order of Bishops to intermeddle with Ecclesiastical matters And now shall we cause our King to be Head of the Church which all good Kings have abhorred the very least thought of and so many wicked Kings have been plagued for so doing Truly my Lords I think they are his best Friends that disswade him from it and he would be the worst enemy to himself if he should obtain it Lastly If this thing be farewel all Unity with Christendom for as that holy and blessed Martyr St. Cyprian saith all Unity depends upon that holy See as upon the Authority of St. Peters Successors for saith the fame holy Father all Heresies Sects Schisms have no other Rise but this that men will not be obedient to the chief Bishop and now for us to shake off our Communion with that Church either we must grant the Church of Rome to be the Church of God or else a Malignant Church If you answer she is a Church of God and a Church where Christ is truly taught his Sacraments rightly administred c. how can we forsake how can we fly from such a Church certainly we ought to be with and not to separate our selves from such a one If we answer The Church of Rome is not of God but a Malignant Church then it will follow that we the Inhabitants of this Land have not as yet received the true Faith of Christ seeing we have not received any other Gospel any other Doctrine any other Sacraments than what we have received from her as most evidently appears by all the Ecclesiastical Histories wherefore if she be a Malignant Church we have been deceived all this while and if to renounce the common Father of Christendom all the General Councils especially the first Four which none renounce all the Countreys of Christendom whether they be Catholique Countreys or Protestant be to forsake the Unity of the Christian World then is the granting of the Supremacy of the Church unto the King a renouncing of this Unity a tearing of the Seamless Coat of Christ in sunder a dividing of the Mystical Body of Christ his Spouse limb from limb and tayl to tayl like Sampsons Foxes to set the Field of Christs holy Church all on fire and this is it which we are about wherefore let it be said unto you in time and not too late Look you to that The End of the First Dialogue containing the History of the First Reformers and Anti-Reformers The Second treats of the Reformation it self and the natural Fruits thereof Jealousy and Distraction amongst the People Decay of Sincerity c. Now Reader wer't thou to choose thy Religion consider which of these two Guides thou wouldst follow Cranmer or the Bishop of Rochester the former having no Mission from Heaven nor major Vote of the Convocation to authorise his Reformation nor yet any great mind to dye a Martyr for the same the later frankly exposing his Life to Stemm that Inundation of Sacriledge Schism and Confusion that was breaking in anno 1535. FINIS
acknowledge that there was a signal Providence of God in raising up a King of his Temper for clearing the way to that blessed Work that followed and that could hardly have been done but by a man of his Humour So that I may very fit'y apply to him the witty simile of a Writer who compares Luther to a Postilion in his waxed Boots and oiled Coat lashing his Horses through thick and thin and bespattering all about him This Character befits King Henry better saving the Reverence due to his Crown who as the Postilion of Reformation made way for it through a great deal of mire and filth Pref. pag. 6. A. What more B. Whatever Reproaches those of the Church of Rome cast on the Reformation upon the account of this Kings Faults may may be easily turned back on their own Popes Pref. pag. 8. Gregory 7. Boniface 8. Julius 2. Leo 10. Clement 7. Paul 3. and if the Lives of those Popes who have made the greatest advances in their Jurisdiction be examined particularly Gregory 7. Boniface 8. Vices more eminent than any can be charged on Henry 8. will be found in them ibid. p. 8. A. So that all he has to answer for Henry 8. amounts to this that others were as bad as he this is a sort of Apology which we call Recrimination Does that excuse any mans Crimes B. No the blemishing them viz. the Popes will not I confess excuse our Reformers therefore other things are to be considered for their Vindication saith the Doctor pag. 10. Pref. to his first vol. A. What are those other things B. Why may not saith he an ill King do so good a work as to set a Reformation forward Gods ways are a great deep who has often shewed his Power and Wisdom in raising up unpromising instruments to do great Services in the world not always employing the best men in them Jehu did an acceptable Service to God in destroying the Idolatry of Baal though neither the way of doing it is to be imitated being grossly insincere nor was the Reformation compleat since the Worship of the two Calves was still kept up And it is very like his chief design in it was to destroy all the party that favoured Ahabs Family yet the thing was good and was rewarded by God. So whatever this Kings other Faults were and how defective soever the Change he made was and upon what ill motives soever it may seem to have proceeded yet the things themselves being good we ought not to think the worse of them because of the Instrument or manner by which they were wrought Pref. pag. 9. Thus the Doctor thinks he has sufficiently justified the English Reformation against the Objections that may arise from the Impieties or Vices of Henry 8. NOTE Let the Reader observe here how the Doctor takes that for granted which is the matter in question namely that the English Reformation was a good work and that God raised up Henry 8. to set it forward Nay the Doctor knows it is utterly deny'd by the most considerable part of Christendom both Greeks and Latins that God raised him up otherwise than he is said to have hardned Pharaoh's heart when he only gave him up to the Lusts and Cruelties of his own Heart If the Doctors meaning be that Henry 8. was raised up by an impulse or inspiration of Gods Spirit to reform the Church let him make that appear by some other Evidence than this further Character and we will believe him A. What is that further Character B. It will surprise some saith the Doctor concerning his first Volumn to see a Book of this bigness written of the History of our Reformation under the Reign of Henry VIII since the true beginnings of it viz. Reformation are to be reckoned from the Reign of Edward 6. mark the Antiquity of the Protestant Church in which the Articles of our Church and the Forms of our Worship were first compiled and set forth by Authority by what Authority shall appear anon and indeed in King Henrys time the Reformation was rather conceived than brought forth and two Parties were in the last eighteen years of his Reign struggling in the Womb having now and then advantages on either side as the inconstant humour of that King changed and as his Interests and often as his Passions swayed him For being boisterous and impatient naturally which was much heightned by his most extravagant Vanity and high Conceit of his own Learning strange Evidence of a Divine Mission he was one of the most uncounsellable Persons in the World. Pref. pag 5 and 6. A. What was King Henry's Religion to his dying day B. Indeed in the whole Progress of those Changes saith our Historian the King's design seemed to have been to terrifie the Court of Rome and cudgel the Pope into a complyance with what he desired For in his Heart he continued addicted to some of the most extravagant opinions of that Church such as Transubstantiation and the other Corruptions of the Mass so that he was to his Lives end more Papist than Protestant page 7. Preface to 1 Vol. NOTE Reader King Henry went to Mass to his dying day So did all these three Kingdoms to the first or second year of Edward VI. Here is yet no Evidence of God's having raised him up by any Impulse or Inspiration of his Holy Spirit to Reform the Church if that were the Doctors meaning only that God permitted him as he does other Sinners to Act those things for which they shall one day pay dearly That some Popes have been no Saints I shall not dispute it with the Doctor But let him shew if he can that any of the first Reformers Henry VIII Ann Bolen Cranmer Cromwell Somerset Northumberland Ridly c. were sent or raised up by God to reform the Faith or Manners of the Church and there is an end of the Controversie The Doctor instances in David Solomon Jchu who all had their failings but how does that recommend or excuse our Reformers who without any Comission or Inspiration from God presumed to reform that is to say subvert the Church wherein they were Baptized and set up another after their own Fancies who said let us take to our selves the Houses of God in Possession Psal 83.12 Never any Pope had the Wickedness to do such things And therefore to affirm that God raised up such Persons to Plunder the Church under pretence of Reforming it what is it better or worse then to make God the Author of their Sacriledge and Hypocrisy A. But what say you to the Doctors words Pref. page 7. that every National Church is a compleat Body within it self so that the Church of England with the Authority and Concurrence of their Head and King may examine and reform all Errors whether in Doctrine or Worship c. If this be true what needs any special Commission or Inspiration from God to Reform the Church Why may not every National Church do
and she had such different Interests that they could not both subsist together resolved upon that course which Nature and Self-preservation seemed to dictate to her but finding that the Pope was too well intrenched to be dislodged upon the sudden it was advised by Cromwell made Master of the Rolls upon her Commendation to begin with taking in the Outworks first meaning the lesser Monasteries to the number of about 376. which being gained it would be no hard matter to beat him out of his Trenches p. 262. Those Houses were dissolved by Act of Parliament anno 1535. to the passing whereof the Bishops and Mitred Abbots which made the prevalent part of the House of Peers contributed their Votes and Suffrages as others did whether it were out of Pusillanimity as not daring to appear in behalf of their Brethren or out of a weak hope that the Rapacity of the Queen mark this and her Ministers would proceed no further it is hard to say Heylin page 263. Certain it is says he that by their improvident assenting to the present Grant they made a Rod for their own Backs as the saying is with which they were sufficiently scourged within sew years after though the new Queen observe for whose sake Cromwell had contrived the Plot did not live to see it Ibid. page 263. NOTE She makes Cromwell Master of the Rolls and he to serve her Interest advises the King to suppress the Religious Houses Heylin remarks further When she thought her self most safe and free from Danger she became most obnoxious to the Ruin prepared for her It had pleased God on the eighth of January 1535. to put an end unto the Calamities of the Vertuous but unfortunate Queen Katherine into whose Bed she had succeeded The News whereof she entertained with such Contentment that she caused her self to be Apparrell'd in lighter colours than was agreeable to the season or the sad occasion Whereas if she had rightly understood her own Condition she could not but have known that the long Life of Katherine was to be her best preservative against all Changes page 263. A. I pray let us hear Doctor Burnet's Character of Queen Katherine B. She was a devout and pious Princess and led a severe and mortify'd Life In her Greatness she wrought much with her own Hands and kept her Women well employed about her as appeared when the two Legates came once to speak with her She came out to them with a Skein of Silk about her Neck and told them she had been within at work with her Women She was most passionately devoted to the Interests of the Court of Rome and in a word she is Represented as a most wonderful good Woman But Queen Ann did not carry her Death so decently for she expressed too much Joy at it both in her Carriage and Dress Burnet page 192. 1 Vol. When Queen Katherine found her Sickness like to prove Mortal she made one about her write a Letter in her name to the King. In the Title she called him her Dear Lord King and Husband She advised him to look to the Health of his Soul She forgave him all the Troubles he had cast her into and concluded I make this Vow that mine Eyes desire you above all things Ibid. page 192. A. Does he relate nothing further of Queen Katherine B. When her Cause was to be heard before the Legates Anno 1529. the King and she came personally into the Court. When the King and Queen were called on the King answered Here. But the Queen left her Seat and went and kneeled down before him and made a Speech She said ' She was a poor Woman and a Stranger in his Dominions where she could neither expect good Council nor indifferent Judges She had been long his Wife and desired to know wherein she had offended him That she had been his Wife twenty years and more and had born him several Children and had ever studied to please him and protested he had found her a true Maid about which she appealed to his Conscience She said her Lawyers who were his Subjects and assigned by him durst not speak freely for her So she desired to be excused till she heard from Spain ' Then she rose up and made the King a low Reverence and went out of the Court and although they called after her she made no Answer but went away and would never again appear in Court. She being gone the King did publickly declare what a true and obedient Wife she had always been and commended her much for her excellent qualities Burnet page 73. 1 Vol. A. Do you find that Ann Bolen ever repented her Carriage in reference to this good and vertuous Princess B. Not a Syllable of that have I met with in Burnet or Heylin After Queen Ann's Death a Parliament was called to Repeal an Act of a former Parliament concerning the Succession of the Grown to the Issue of the King by her In this Parliament saith the Doctor the Attainder of Queen Ann and her Complices is confirmed In the new Act of Succession she is said to have been inflamed with Pride and Carnal desires of her Body and having confederated her self with her complices to have committed divers Treasons to the danger of the King 's Royal Person for which she had justly suffered Death and is now attainted by Act of Parliament Burnet page 210. 1 Vol. A. I pray of what Church did she dye B. The Doctor says nothing of that the Church of England was not then in being Mass being said at that time in all Churches of the Nation and above ten years after The Church of Romes Authority was then excluded by Act of Parliament and that by her interest So that of what Church she dyed I cannot resolve you unless it were King Henry's Church and that was no Protestant Church the Doctrine of the six Articles being then in request However she dyed 2 Saint if you believe her own words And some think 't is no matter of what Church they Live or Dye provided they be no Papists But King Henry's Church was then scarcely three years old A. Enough of your first Reformer Ann Bolen for whose sake King Henry fell out with the Pope and made a Rupture in the Catholick Church She was not the first nor will be the last Female Incendiary of Mischief and Quarrels in the World. Who was the next Reformer under Henry VIII B. Thomas Cromwell A. What Tokens of an extraordinary Mission does Burnet observe in him B. He was a Man of mean Birth but noble Qualities only he made too much haste to be Great and Rich. He joyned himself in a firm Friendship to Cranmer and did promote the Reformation very vigorously Burnet 1 Vol page 172. The Suppression of the Abbies was wholly laid at his door page 276. He was attainted by Act of Parliament Anno â—540 Wherein it is said expressly that the King having raised Thomas Cromwell from a base degree to
the particulars of Bribery and Extortion they being mentioned in general expressions seem only cast into the heap to defame him And pag. 285. he carried his Greatness with wonderful Temper and Moderation and fell under the weight of popular Odium rather than Guilt for which the Doctor gives this reason the Disorders in the Suppression of Abbies were generally charged on him ibid. With his Fall the progress of the Reformation which had been by his endeavours so far advanced was quite stop'd p. 285. For all that Cranmer could do after this was to keep the ground they had gained but he could never advance much further ibid. With him the Office of the Kings Vice-Gerent in Ecclesiastical affairs dyed as it rose first in his person And as all the Clergy opposâ—d the setting up a new Officer whose Interest should oblige him to oppose a Reconciliation with Rome so it seems none were sound to succeed in an Office that proved so fatal to him p. 285. NOTE All the Clergy at that time were for a Reconciliation with Rome that was the year 1540. after their Deliverance from the Tyranny of Cromwell By all the Clergy the Doctor means the major part nay all except Cranmer and two or three more as shall appear by and by out of Dr. Burnet Dr. Heylin remarks Histor Reform p. 11. ad annum 1540. King Henry advanceth his great Minister Cromwell by whom he had made such havock of Religious Houses in all parts of the Realm to the Earldom of Essex and sends him headless to his Grave within three months after And Dr. Burnet himself cannot but observe the Judgment of God upon Cromwell anno 1540. viz. His ruin was now decreed and he who had so servilely complied with the Kings Pleasure in procuring some to be attainted the year before without being brought to make their Answer fell now under the same Severity p. 227. 1. vol. A. How did Cromwell govern the Church B. First as King Henrys Vicar General afterwards as Lord Vice-Gerent in Ecclesiastical matters They were two different Places and held by different Commissions By the one he had no Authority over the Bishops nor had he any Precedence but the other as it gave him the Precedence next to the Royal Family so it clothed him with a compleat Delegation of the Kings whole Power in Ecclesiastical matters Burnet p. 181. By virtue of which Authority he sends out his Instructions to the Bishops how to proceed in a Reformation and his Injunctions to the Clergy which the Reader will find in Burnets Collection of Records 1. vol. p. 181. Bock 3. concluding thus All which and singular Injunctions I minister unto you and your Successors by the Kings Highness's Authority to me committed in this part which I charge and command you by the same Authority to observe and keep upon pain of Deprivation Sequestration of your Fruits or such other Coercion as to the Kings Highness or his Vice-Gerent for the time being shall seem convenient This was in the year 1538. One of those Injunctions was this viz. You shall suffer from henceforth no Candles Tapers or Images of Wax to be set before any Image or Picture but only the Light that commonly goeth a cross the Church by the Rood Loft the Light before the Sacrament of the Altar and the Light about the Sepulchre which for the adorning of the Church and Divine Service ye shall suffer to remain still admonishing your Parishioners that Images serve for none other purpose but as the Bocks of unlearned men that ken no Letters whereby they might be otherwise admonished of the Lives and Conversation of them that the said Images do represent Also that you shall expressly provoke stir and exhort every person to read the Bible admonishing them nevertheless to avoid all Contention Altercation therein and to use an honest Sobriety in the inquisition of the true sense of the same and refer the Explication of obscure places to men of higher Judgment in Scripture NOTE Such Admonitions were to no purpose the Bible being once permitted into the rude hands of the Multitude For what say they does he allow us to read the Scripture and then debar us the use of our Vnderstandings Has not every man a Judgment of Discretion to read and interpret the Scripture for himself so as not to pin his Religion on the sleeve of the Church Another of his Injunctions was that you shall in Confessions every Lent examine every person it seems private Confession was then in practice whether they can recite the Articles of our Faith and the Pater noster in English and hear them say the same particularly wherein if they be not perfect ye shall admonish them that every Christian ought to know the same before they receive the blessed Sacrament of the Altar and to learn the same more perfectly by the next year following So you shall declare unto them that you look for other Injunctions mark this from the Kings Highness by that time to stay and repel all such from Gods Board as shall be found ignorant in the premises Coll. p. 181. A. So much for Cromwell whose Religion or Church whatever it was is past my understanding Go on and tell us who is your next Saint of the Reformation B. Thomas Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury A. What Signs of an Apostle did appear in him B. Your Question is but rational since Burnet affirms so positively that he was a man raised up by God for great Services p. 335. 2. vol. A. I know he was next to Cromwell the grand Projector of Reformation under Henry 8. but the thing that I expect from Burnet is the proof of that Assertion that he was a man raised up by God in case he would oblige us to esteem the Reformation not to have been the work of Man but of God. Shall Cranmer take upon him to reform that is to pull down the established Religion of the Nation coyn 39 Articles and impose them on the Clergy as if he had thought the Scriptures obscure or insufficient in things necessary the major part of the Christian World protesting against it as new Doctrine and all this by a meer humane Authority an Act of Parliament passed under the Childhood of Edward 6 B. As for the marks of his Apostleship take the History of his Actions compared with Burnets Character and then satisfie your self the best you can Warham Archbishop of Canterbury dying in the year 1533. King H. saw well of how great importance it was to the Designs he was then forming viz his Divorce from Q Katherine c. to fill that See with a learned prudent and resolute Man but finding none in the Episcopal Order that is amongst all the English Bishops that was qualified to his Mind note this and having observed a native simplicity joyned with much Courage and tempered with a great deal of Wisedom in Doctor Cranmer who was then Negotiating his business among the learned Men of Germany
finding that nothing went so near the King's Heart Edward VI as the ruin of Religion which he apprehended would follow upon his Death when his Sister Mary should come to the Crown upon that he and his party took advantage to propose to him to settle the Crown by his Letters Patents on the Lady Jane Grey then newly married to Guilford Dudley Northumberlands fourth Son how they prevailed with him to pass by his Sister Elisabeth who had been always much in his Favour I do not so well understand But the King being wrought over to this on the 11th of June Mountague Chief Justice of the Common-Pleas Baker and Bromly two Judges with the King's Attorney and Solicitor were commanded to come to Council There they found the King with some Privy-Councellors about him The King told them he did now apprehend the danger the Kingdom might be in by the Succession of his Sister Mary So he ordered some Articles to be read to them of the way in which he would have the Crown to descend They objected that an Act of Parliament could not be taken away by any such Device yet the King required them to take the Articles and draw a Book according to them They asked a little time to consider of it So having examined the Statute of the first year of his Reign they found that it was Treason not only after the King's Death but in his life time to change the Succession Secretary Petre in the mean time pressed them to make haste When they came again to the Council they declared they could not do any such thing for it was Treason And all the Lords should be Guilty of Treason if they went on in it Upon which the Duke of Northumberland who was not then in the Council Chamber being advertised of this came in great Fury calling Mountague a Traitor But the Judges stood to their Opinion They were again sent for and came on the 15th of June The King was present and somewhat sharply asked them why they had not prepared the Book as he had ordered them They answered that whatever they did would be of no force without a Parliament But the King said he would have it first done and then ratified in Parliament and therefore required them on their Allegiance to go about it and some Councellors told them if they refused to Obey that they were Traytors This put them in a great Consternation and Old Mountague thinking it could not be Treason whatever they did in this matter while the King lived and at worst that a Pardon under the great Seal would secure him consented to set about it if he might have a Commission requiring him to do it and a Pardon when it was done both these being granted him he was satisfyed The other Judges being asked if they would concur did all agree being overcome with fear except Hales But Cranmer still refused to do it after they had all signed it and said he would never consent to the Disinheriting of the Daughters of his late Master Many Consultations were had to perswade him to it but he could not be prevailed on till the King himself set on him who used many Arguments from the danger Religion would otherwise be in together with other Perswasions so that by his Reasons or rather Importunities at last he brought him to it NOTE The Doctors excuse for this unjust Act of Cranmers importunity the same that naughty Women are said to pretend for their Incontinency If he did this only as submitting to his Princes importunity how came he after King Edward 's Death to Subscribe the aforesaid Letter And to do both after he had said he he would never consent to the disinheriting of King Henry 's Children The Reader may now understand the reason why he answered little or nothing to the Treason objected to him by the Bishop of Glocester because there was too much Truth in it And methinks this excuse which Burnet makes for him does him no service namely that he stood off a good while but at last with much a do was perswaded into this Conspiracy against K. Henry 's Children How does this answer the Character which Fox gives of him in causes pertaining to God and his Prince no Man more stout no Man more constant then he But whether he was in reality so unwilling to this Action is a question which the indifferent Reader may easily resolve Since he could not but apprehend that Queen Mary would call him to an account for the troubles he had brought upon her Mother and indeed upon the whole Church and Kingdom of England For amongst all the English Bishops anno 1533. King Henry could not find such another Person as Burnet confesses to serve him in the See of Canterbury Now as for Mountague Chief Justice of the Common Plea's and the rest of the Judges who at last consented to the advancement of Lady Jane Grey you may observe them scrupling the matter not out of Conscience but apprehension of the Law. All that they desired was to be indemnified from the danger of Law. A. Now go on to relate how he acquitted himself of the other particulars laid to his Charge Heresie Perjury Incontinency B. Although he answered nothing to the Bishop of Glocester concerning the point of Treason yet I remember somewhat in Fox which he reply'd to Doctor Martyn the Queen's Proctor viz. I protest before God I was no Traytor but indeed I confessed more at my Arraignment than was true Martyn returns that is not to be reasoned at this present you know you were condemned for a Traytor Fox page 653. 3 Vol. A. Is there no more in Fox as to that point B. Not a word more that I can find A. Then proceed as to the particular of Heresie B. John Foxes words are these As for the matter of Heresie and Schism wherewith he was charged he protested and called God to witness that he knew none that he maintained But if that were an Heresie to deny the Popes Authority and the Religion which the See of Rome hath published to the World these later years then the Apostles and Christ himself taught Heresie and he desired all then present to bear him witness that he took the Traditions and Religion of that usurping Prelate to be most false erroneous and against the Doctrine of the whole Scripture That he is the very Antichrist so often preached of by the Apostles and Prophets For it was most evident that he had advanced himself above all Emperors and Kings of the World whom he affirmeth to hold their Estates and Empires of him as their Chief and to be deposed at his good Will and Pleasure That he hath brought in Gods of his own Framing and invented a new Religion full of Gain and Lucre. This Enemy of God and of our Redemption is so evidently painted out in the Scriptures by such manifest Signs and Tokens that except a man will shut up his Eyes and Heart against the
Light he cannot but know him He is like the Devil in his doings for the Devil said to Christ if thou wilt fall down and worship me I will give thee all the Kingdoms of the World even so the Bishop of Rome giveth Princes their Crowns being none of his own Christ saith that Antichrist shall be and who shall he be Forsooth he that advanceth himself above all other Creatures Now if there be none other that hath advanced himself after such manner besides the Pope he forgot Mahomet then in the mean time let him be Antichrist I say the Bishop of Rome treadeth under Foot God's Laws and the Kings c. Fox 3 Vol. page 653 and 661. A. This was strange stuff coming from the Metropolitan of a Nation B. But Fox admires it and adds this marginal Note the Pope proved Antichrist NOTE Cranmer little thought that in less then one Century after his Death his Protestant Successors in the See of Canterbury should be turn'd out of doors as the Limbs and Feet of that great Antichrist the Pope and that by vertue of his own dear Principle of Reformation the Scripture interpreted according to every Man's Judgment of Discretion I have seen a Book entituled The Souldiers Catechism composed for the Parliaments Army published in the year 1644 where this among other Questions being put What is it that you chiefly aim at in this War against the King The Answer is 1. At the pulling down of Babylon and rewarding her as she hath served us Psal 137.8 2. At the suppression of an Antichristian Prelacy consisting of Archbishops Bishops Deans c. 3. At the Reformation of a most corrupt lazy infamous superstitious soul-murdering Clergy 4. At the advancement of Christ's Kingdom and the purity of his Ordinances 5. At the bringing to Justice the Enemies of our Church and State. 6. At the preservation and continuance of the Gospel to our Posterity And to this Question Is it not a lamentable thing that Christians of the same Nation should thus imbrue their Hands in one anothers Blood The Answer is I confess it is but as the case now stands there is an inevitable and absolute necessity of fighting laid upon the good People of the Land. 2. The whole Church of God calls upon us to come into the help of the Lord and his People against the Mighty 3. We are not now to look at our enemies as Country Men or Kinsmen or fellow Protestants but as the Enemies of God and our Religion and Siders with Antichrist and so our eye is not to pity them nor our Sword to spare them Jerem. 48.10 And to this Question who do you think are the Authors and Occasioners of this unnatural War The Answer is the Jesuites those Fire-brands of mischief with all the Popish Party 2. The Bishops and the rotten Clergy with all the Prelatical Party c. This Book was printed in the year 1644. and licensed by James Cranford a Presbyterian Ringleader of those times In the Title page whereof you shall find these words viz. Written for the Instruction and Encouragement of all that have taken up Arms in the Cause of God and his People c. In which Book the Reader shall find them driving the Nail to the Head and expounding the Scripture against the Protestant Hierarchy just as Cranmer had done against the Pope and Church of Rome For you must know the time when Cranmer answered thus invectively against the Pope was the year 1556. the Parliament the National Church and Clergy of England being then actually reconciled to the Church of Rome as you may find both in Burnet and Fox so that his Authority for saying the Pope had brought in Gods of his own framing was then the very same with that of the Presbyterians anno 1644. for calling the English Bishops Antichrists namely the Scripture inter preted by himself A. It seems Cranmer was then a Schismatique as well from the established Church of England as Rome namely in the year 1556. B. Yes for Catholique Religion was then restored by Act of Parliament with all the Catholique Bishops who had been ejected by the Privy Council of Edward 6. So that I think it no easie matter to resolve you of what Church was Cranmer at that time a Lutheran he was not not yet a Calvinist nor of the Church of England then established by Law. A. His Church was then in Vtopia Go on to the rest of his Story B. Thus you shall find him answering to the Charge of Dr. Martyn viz. I will never consent to the Bishop of Rome so he would never consent to the Disinheriting of King Henrys Children for then should I give my self to the Devil I have made an Oath to the King and must obey the King by Gods Laws By the Scripture the King is Chief and no Foreign person in his own Realm above him There is no Subject but to a King. I am a Subject I ow my Fidelity to the Crown to the Lady Jane Grey the Pope is contrary the Crown I cannot obey both for no man can serve two Masters at once as you in the beginning of your Oration declared by the Sword and the Keys artributing the Sword to the King and the Keys to the Pope but I say the King hath both Therefore he that is subject to Rome and the Laws of Rome he is perjured c. Fox pag. 653. NOTE In his Opinion the King has both the Power of the Sword and of the Keys This must needs be a man after King Henrys own heart but if this Doctrine be true then Queen Mary had the Power of the Keys and our present Sovereign King James II. must have the same Power also He proceeds Now as concerning the Sacrament I have taught no false Doctrine of the Sacrament of the Altar For if it can be proved by any Doctor above a thousand years after Christ that Christs Body is there really I will give over My Book was made seven years ago and no man hath brought any Authors against it I believe that who so eateth and drinketh that Sacrament Christ is within them whole Christ his Nativity Passion Resurrection and Ascension but not that corporally that sitteth in Heaven Fox ibid. Here Dr. Story another of the Queens Proctors interrupted him saying Pleaseth it you to make an end To which he replyed Now I have declared why I cannot with my Conscience obey the Pope neither say I this for my Defence but to declare my Conscience for the Zeal that I bear to Gods Word trodden under foot by the Bishop of Rome See the rest in Fox pag. 654. Then Doctor Story stood up and said addressing himself to the Bishop of Glocester Pleaseth it your good Lordship because it hath pleased the King and Queens Majesty to appoint my Companion and me to hear the Examination of this man to give me leave somewhat to talk in that behalf although I know that in talk with Hereticks there
inflicted on those that denied the Queens Supremacy ann 1559. but the loss of their Goods and such as refused to take the Oath did only lose their Imployments Whereas to refuse the Oath in King Henrys time brought them into a Premunire and to deny the Supremacy was Treason But against this Bill of Queen Elizabeths first Parliament the Bishops made Speeches in the House of Lords the rest of the Bishops opposed it the rather because they had lately declared so high for the Pope that it had been very indecent for them to have revoked so soon pag. 386 387. 2. vol. The Bishop of Chester said in Parliament that the Bill was against both Faith and Charity meaning the Bill for the new Service that Acts of Parliament were no Foundations for a Churches Belief that it was an insolent thing to pretend that all our Fathers lived in Ignorance That the Prophets oftentimes directed the Israelites to enquire of their Fathers Matters of Religion could not be understood by the Laiety Jeroboam made Israel to sin when he set up a new way of Worship Gallie by the Light of Nature knew that a Civil Judge ought not to meddle with matters of Religion In the Service-Book that was then before them there was no Sacrifice for Sin c. and for these reasons says Burnet he could not agree to it But if any thought he spoke this because of his own concern or pitied him for what he might suffer by it he would answer in the words of our Saviour Weep not for me weep for your selves p. 393. After him spake Fecknam Abbot of Westminster he said There had been great Order and Obedience in Queen Marys Reign but now every where great Insolencies were committed by the people with some very indecent Prophanations of the most holy things He recommended to them in St. Austins words the adhering to the Catholique Church the very name Catholique which Heretiques had not the confidence to assume shewed their Authority The Consent of the whole Church in all Ages with the perpetual Succession of Pastors in St. Peters Chair ought to weigh more with them than a few new Preachers who had of late distracted both Gemany and England Burnet pag. 393. 2. vol. Then see his Appendix to 2. vol. p. 408. where setting down these words of Nicholas Sanders That the Laws concerning Queen Elisabeths Supremacy passed the House of Lords with great difficulty all the Bishops opposing them Burnet answers It is true all the Bishops did oppose them c. But to all the Changes that were made in King Edwards time they submitted c. Why then were they turned out by King Edward and Protestants substituted in their places Thus Reader it appears by Burnets own Confession that the Reformation was not the Act and Deed of the old Clergy or Convocation of England or the major part thereof but impos'd on the Nation by the Power and Interest of a few persons And so I leave you to think what you please of Mas William Kings Confidence the Preacher of St. Warbroughs affirming as you have heard that Cranmer in all he did had the unanimous Consent and Vote of the major part of the Convocation the universal Submission of the Clergy c. Answ p. 25. A. But supposing he had the major Vote of his side as he had not could that have justified his Reformation B. Not at all for being all made Priests after that Form Accipe Potestatem offerre Sacrificium Deo missasque celebrare tam pro vivis quam pro defunctis c. they had no more Authority to abrogate the Mass than the present Archbishop of Canterbury with the major Vote of the Protestant Bishops to abolish the Common Prayer By their Protestant Orders they cannot do it A So much for his Priesthood You said he was consecrated Bishop in the year 1533. what were the Words of his Consecration B. You may find them in the Roman Pontifical First he was interrogated Vis Traditiones orthodoxorum Patrum Decretales sanctae Apostolicae sedis constitutiones veneranter suscipere docere ac servare R. Volo Vis beato Petro Apostolo cui à Deo data est Potestas ligandi ac solvendi ejúsque Vicario Domino nostro N. Papae suisque Successoribus Romanis Pontificibus fidem subjectionem obedientiam secundum Canonicam Auctoritatem per omnia exhibere R. Volo Credis sanctam catholicam Apostolicam unam esse veram Ecclesiam in qua unum datur verum Baptisam vera peccatorum omnium Remissio R. Credo That is Will you reverently receive teach and keep the Traditions of the orthodox Fathers the Decrees and Constitutions of the holy and Apostolique See He answered I will. Will you shew Fidelity Subjection and Obedience to St. Peter the Apostle and his Successors the Bishops of Rome in all things according to the Canons He answered I will. Do you believe one holy Catholique and Apostolique Church in which there is true Baptism and true Remission of Sins He answered I believe After which the Bishop consecrating authorizes him in these Words viz. Accipe Evangelium vade praedica populo tibi commisso Receive thou the Gospel go and preach to the people committed to thy charge R. Amen A. Why by this Consecration he had no more Authority to preach the Doctrine of 39 Articles than the present Archbishop of Canterbury to preach the Doctrine of the Council of Trent B. No more You see how he obliged himself to pay Fidelity Subjection and Obedience to the Bishops of Rome in all things according to the Canons then in force And reverently to receive teach and keep the Constitutions of the holy and Apostolique See. And upon these terms he receiv'd his Commission to go and preach the Gospel A. The matter is plain All his Changes were unwarrantable and his Reformation but a Castle in the air without a Foundation if you set aside Acts of Parliament B. And besides all this he swore that Oath to the Pope which you have heard page 28. of this Catechism Then what if all the Bishops had consented with him they had but violated their Engagements and Vows as he did being all sent and ordained after that Form. Reader I pray look into the Form and Manner appointed by the Church of England for consecrating of Bishops and Archbishops and there observe how Protestant Bishops do oblige themselves to preach Gods Word according to the Authority committed unto them by the Ordinance of this Realm and no otherwise that is to say according to the Doctrine of Thirty nine Articles Then enquire a little further what Commission had Cranmer or Matthew Parker to impose or preach the said Articles A. Enough of Cranmer What is Burnets Character of those few Bishops that were of his Party B. Those were Latimer Shaxton Barlow who were rather Cloggs than Helps to Cranmer says Burnet Latimers Simplicity and Weakness made him be despised Shaxtons proud and litigious
Humour drew hatred on him Barlow was not very discreet Burnet pag. 255. 1. vol. And then it follows Many of the Preachers whom they cherished meaning the new Preachers whether out of an unbridled forwardness of Temper or true Zeal that would not be managed and governed by politick and prudent measures note this were flying at many things not yet abolished See the rest Burnet ibid. This was in the year 1538. A. Give me leave to ask you one Question B. What 's that A. What is your meaning by all this History of Cranmer and his Associates B. Nothing but to shew the unwarrantableness of all the Changes they made in Religion having neither extraordinary nor ordinary Mission to recommend them nor yet the major Vote of the Convocation Ordinary Mission they had none but what you have heard out of the Roman Pontifical Extraordinary things they never pretended to besides what I have told you out of Burnet and Fox Now Reader remember that wonderful Answer of Mas William Kings page 18. viz. Although therefore the first Reformers had their Orders from Bishops in Communion with the Church of Rome Yet it was as Christian Bishops they ordained and as English Bishops that they admitted the first Reformers to their Charges But suppose they the first Reformers had no other Orders but what they received from the Bishop of Rome himself all that can be concluded from thence is that we are obliged to own that the Orders of Priest and Bishop given by Roman Catholicks are valid and capacitate a Man to perform all the Duties belonging to those Offices in a Christian Church which we readily acknowledge observe that and charge the Popish Priests and Bishops not with want of Orders but with abusing the Orders they have to ill intents and purposes by whose Authority do you pass this Censure The Roman Catholick Bishops do not confer Orders as Roman but as Christian Bishops their Orders are Christian Orders Mark Reader what he says Roman Catholick Bishops are Christian Bishops and their Orders Christian Orders why then did the first Reformers so notoriously transgress them And those we hold sufficient to all intents and purposes of the Reformation and must do so till Mr. Manby or some body else prove them insufficient In short a Man is ordained neither a Protestant nor a Papist but a Christian Bishop his Mission is a Christian Mission page 19. Now Roman Catholicks will be apt to ask what needs any more to recommend their Doctrine then Christian Bishops and a Christian Mission Mr. King allows their Mission and denyes their Doctrine They deny both his Mission and his Doctrine When Doctrines are disputed and Scriptures alledged by both Parties how shall a Church prove the verity of her Doctrine but by the certainty of her Mission Did not our blessed Saviour answer that question of the Jews by what Authority doest thou these thing by appealing to the Evidence of his Mission The works that I do testifie of me that I am sent from God A. But Mr. King's meaning is this that Roman Catholicks have exceeded their Commission by teaching false Doctrine B. But I would fain know of him who shall be Judge of that he knows very well that 's as easily deny'd as 't is affirm'd And I appeal to the indifferent Reader which of the two Parties have been the greatest Transgressors of those Orders now mentioned A. But don't you observe one admirable passage in him B. What is that A. Why that Mr. M. proceeds on an ignorant supposition that every Man is ordained to preach the Tenets of his Ordainers Whereas the ordained are no more accountable to their Ordainers upon the account of being ordained by them then a Man is accountable to a Lord Chancellor for the use of his power because he set the Seal to his Patent by which he claims his power page 19. B. Very good then if Mr. King were ordained by the Protestant Archbishop of Dublin or of Tuam he is not accountable to them for his Doctrine because the Ordainers are only instruments but his Power is from Christ A. Mark what he says he is not accountable to his Ordainers upon the account of being ordained by them page 19. What can be the meaning of this but that Ministers are not bound to preach the Tenets or Doctrines of those that sent them although Our Saviour himself says my Doctrine is not mine but his that fent me John 7.16 B. I observe he may prove a shew'd Man if he lives and set up for a new Reformer and then justifie it by saying It s an ignorant supposition to think every man is ordained to preach the Tenets of his Ordainers or else must have no Mission The Ordainers being only instruments but the Power from Christ page 19. Reader May not a Man receive Orders from the Church of England and afterwards make a step to New England and there preach against Common Prayer by vertue of this assertion A. But what say you to that scurrility and uncleanliness of Language wherewith he treats Mr. M. from one end of his Answer to the other B. You must Pardon him he had many Reasons for that first to shew a good example to his Flock 2. To prove himself a Gentleman and a well bred Scholar 3. To entertain his Friends with whom that sort of Language may be more taking perhaps then the most modest Expressions 4. To shew his Zeal for the Church and how much better a Dutiful Child may love a good Foster Mother the Church of Ireland then his own natural Mother the Church of Scotland c. A. Let us adjourn this Discourse till to Morrow And Conclude this first Dialogue with Burnet's Character of those two worthy Persons that dyed for the Catholick Religion under Henry VIII Sir Thomas More and the Bishop of Rochester On the first of July anno 1535. Sir Thomas More was brought to his Tryal The special matter of his Indictment was that on the 7th of May preceding before Cromwell Bedyll and some others that were pressing him concerning the Kings Supremacy he said he would not meddle with any such matter And was fully resolved to serve God and think upon his Passion and his own passage out of this World. That he had also sent divers Messages by one George Gold to Bishop Fisher to encourage him in his obstinacy and said the Act of Supremacy is like a Sword with two Edges for if a man answer one way it will confound his Soul and if he answer another way it will confound his Body That he had said the same thing on the third of June in the hearing of the Lord Chancellor the Duke of Norfolk and others And that he would not be the occasion of the shortening his own Life This and other particulars which passed betwixt him and Rich the Kings Sollicitor were laid together and judged to amount to a Denyal of the Kings Supremacy Judge Spelman writes that More being on
it by their own Authority For saith the Doctor a common Concurrence of other Churches was a thing scarce to be expected and therefore this Church must be in a very ill condition if there could be no endeavours for a Reformation till all the rest were brought together ibid. page 7. B. The design of this Catechism is to shew by the Doctors own Confession that the English Reformation was not the Act and Deed of the National Church or Clergy of England neither in the days of Henry VIII nor of his Son Edward VI nor of Queen Elisabeth but impos'd upon the Nation by the Interest and Power of a few Persons for their own advantage viz. the raising their Fortunes out of Church Lands And when I have done this I shall leave you to think what you please of Mr. King's Modesty the Preacher of St. Warbroughs who in a late thing which he calls an Answer to Dean Manby's Considerations affirms very confidently page 25. He viz. Cranmer in all he did had the unanimous Vote and Consent of the major part of the Convocation the universal Submission of the Clergy and Approbation of the People And a little after But if the Clergy in a National Council and the People in Obedience to them or from their own Inclinations did comply in earnest what an idle Question is it to ask by what Authority Cranmer condemned that Church from whom he received his Mission and Holy Orders when she concurred in all he did and approved nay made all the Alterations in her Liturgy Sacraments and Constitutions that were made c. A. But I pray go on in the method which at first you prescribed to your self and tell us in the Doctors words the History of those who promoted the Reformation under Henry VIII and his Son Edward VI. and then what observable passages you have met with touching the Reformation it self I am satisfied that King Henry by the Doctors Account of him had little thoughts of Reformation whilst he had the least hopes of the Popes complyance in the matter of his Divorce from Queen Katherine B. The chief Apostles under Henry VIII were Ann Bolen Cromwell Cranmer Latimer Shaxton Barlow A. What were the extraordinary Vertues of Ann Bolen B. She favoured the Reformers their chief Encouragement was from her who reigned in the King's Heart as absolutely as he did over his Subjects and was a known Favourer of them She took Shaxton and Latimer to be her Chaplains ad soon after promoted them to the Bishopricks of Salisbury and Worcester and in all other things cherished and protected them and used her most effectual endeavours with the King to promote the Reformation page 171 of his first Vol. second Edition A. What more B. Every Body admired Queen Ann's Conduct who had managed such a Kings Spirit so long and had neither surfeited him with great freedom the Doctor speaks of her cunning behaviour before the King married her nor provoked him by the other extream For the King who was extreamly nice in these matters conceived still an higher opinion of her And her being so soon with Child after the Marriage as it made people conclude she had been Chast till then so they hoped for a Blessing upon it since there were such early appearances of Issue Those that favoured the Reformation expected better days under her Protection for they knew she favoured them page 132. 1 vol. A. But how did this Zealous Reformer behave her self after her Marriage B. This being saith the Doctor one of the most memorable passages of King Henry's Reign I was at more then Ordinary pains to learn all I could concerning it She was of a very cheerful temper which was not always limited within the bounds of exact Decency and Discretion She had rallied some of the King's Servants more than became her her Brother the Lord Rochford was her Friend as well as Brother But his spiteful Wife was jealous of him and being a Woman of no sort of Vertue she carried many Stories to the King or some about him to perswade that there was a familiarity between the Queen and her Brother beyond what so near a Relation could justify Henry Norris that was Groom of the Stool Weston and Brereton that were of the King's Privy-Chamber and one Mark Smeton a Musician were all observed to have much of her Favour And their Zeal in serving her was thought too warm and diligent to flow from a less active principle then Love. Many Circumstances were brought to the King which working upon his aversion to the Queen together with his Affection to Mrs Seymeur made him conclude her Guilty Yet somewhat which himself observed or fancied at a Tilting at Greenwich is believed to have given the Crisis to her Ruin. It is said that he spied her let fall her Handkerchief to one of her Gallants to wipe his Face being hot after a course See the rest page 197. 1 vol. A. Did she confess nothing B. She confessed this odd passage between her self and Sir Henry Norris That she once asked him why he did not go on with his Marriage Who answered her that he would yet tarry some time to which she replyed you look for Dead Mens Shoos for if ought come to the King but good you would look to have Me He answered if he had any such thought he would his Head were cut off Upon which she said she could undo him if she pleased and thereupon she fell out with him page 199. As for Mark Smeton who was then laid in Irons she said he was never in her Chamber but when the King was last at Winchester And then he came in to play on the Virginals She said that she never spoke to him after that but on Saturday before May-day when she saw him standing in the Window and then she asked him Why he was so sad he said it was no matter She answered you may not look to have me speak to you as if you were a Noble Man since you are an inferiour person No no Madam said he a Look sufficeth me ibid. page 199. She seemed more apprehensive of Weslon then of any Body For on Whit-Sunday Morning last he said to her that Norris came more to her Chamber upon her account than for any body else that was there She had observed that he loved a Kinswoman of hers and challenged him for it and for not loving his Wife But he answered her that there were Women in the House whom he loved better then them both she asked who is that your self said he upon which she said she desied him ibid. page 197. A. What is the Doctors opinion of this B. It is certain her Carriage had given just cause of some Jealousy page 206. A. How did other people Censure her B. Her Carriage seemed too free and all people thought saith the Doctor that some Freedoms and Levities in her had encouraged those unfortunate Persons to speak such bold things to her