it_o be_v rot_v or_o null_a in_o the_o foundation_n yet_o by_o continuance_n and_o time_n it_o may_v obtain_v validity_n and_o strength_n when_o the_o claim_n be_v by_o succession_n from_o such_o a_o stock_n or_o root_n if_o you_o suppose_v once_o a_o total_a intercision_n in_o the_o succession_n from_o that_o stock_n or_o root_n there_o be_v a_o utter_a end_n put_v to_o that_o claim_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v how_o the_o case_n be_v with_o they_o from_o who_o this_o claim_n be_v derive_v 1._o it_o be_v notorious_o know_v that_o among_o they_o the_o validity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o administrator_n it_o be_v so_o with_o they_o as_o to_o every_o thing_n they_o call_v a_o sacrament_n now_o to_o take_v one_o step_n backward_o that_o baptism_n will_v by_o some_o of_o we_o be_v scarce_o account_v valid_a which_o be_v not_o administer_v by_o a_o lawful_a minister_n suppose_v now_o that_o some_o pope_n ordain_v a_o bishop_n in_o his_o stable_n to_o satisfy_v a_o whore_n have_v not_o a_o intention_n to_o make_v he_o a_o bishop_n which_o be_v no_o remote_a surmise_n he_o be_v no_o bishop_n right_o ordain_v all_o the_o priest_n by_o he_o afterwards_o consecrate_v be_v indeed_o no_o priest_n and_o so_o indeed_o have_v no_o power_n to_o administer_v any_o sacrament_n and_o so_o consequent_o the_o baptism_n that_o may_v lie_v for_o aught_o we_o know_v at_o the_o root_n of_o that_o which_o some_o of_o we_o pretend_v unto_o be_v original_o absolute_o null_a and_o void_a and_o can_v never_o by_o tract_n of_o time_n be_v make_v valid_a or_o effectual_a for_o like_o a_o muddy_a fountain_n the_o far_a it_o go_v the_o more_o filthy_a it_o be_v or_o suppose_v that_o any_o priest_n baptise_v one_o who_o afterwards_o come_v to_o be_v pope_n from_o who_o all_o authority_n in_o that_o church_n do_v flow_v and_o be_v derive_v have_v no_o intention_n to_o baptise_v he_o what_o will_v become_v of_o all_o that_o ensue_v thereon_o it_o be_v endless_a to_o pursue_v the_o uncertainty_n and_o entanglement_n that_o ensue_v on_o this_o head_n of_o account_n and_o sufficient_o easy_a it_o be_v to_o manifest_v that_o whosoever_o resolve_v his_o interest_n in_o gospel_n privilege_n into_o this_o foundation_n can_v have_v no_o assurance_n of_o faith_n nay_o nor_o tolerable_o probable_a conjecture_n that_o he_o be_v baptise_v or_o be_v ever_o make_v partaker_n of_o any_o ordinance_n of_o the_o gospel_n let_v they_o that_o delight_n in_o such_o trouble_a water_n sport_n themselves_o in_o they_o for_o my_o own_o part_n consider_v the_o state_n of_o that_o church_n for_o some_o year_n if_o not_o age_n wherein_o the_o fountain_n of_o all_o authority_n among_o they_o be_v full_a of_o filth_n and_o blood_n there_o pope_n upon_o their_o own_o confession_n be_v make_v set_v up_o and_o pull_v down_o at_o the_o pleasure_n of_o vile_a impudent_a domineer_a strumpet_n and_o supply_v themselves_o with_o officer_n all_o the_o world_n over_o of_o the_o same_o spirit_n and_o stamp_n with_o themselves_o and_o that_o for_o the_o most_o part_n for_o hire_n be_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n all_o idolater_n to_o a_o man_n i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o grant_v that_o their_o good_a and_o upright_a intention_n be_v necessary_a to_o be_v suppose_v as_o a_o thing_n requisite_a unto_o my_o interest_n in_o any_o privilege_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a determination_n of_o irrefragable_a authority_n among_o they_o that_o whosoever_o he_o be_v that_o administer_v baptism_n so_o he_o use_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n that_o baptism_n be_v good_a and_o valid_a and_o not_o to_o be_v reiterate_v yea_o pope_n nicholas_n in_o his_o resolution_n and_o determination_n upon_o the_o enquiry_n of_o the_o bulgarian_n who_o decree_n be_v authentic_a and_o record_v in_o their_o counsel_n tom_n 2._o crabb_n p._n 144._o declare_v the_o judgement_n of_o that_o church_n to_o the_o full_a they_o tell_v he_o that_o many_o in_o their_o nation_n be_v baptise_v by_o a_o unknown_a person_n a_o jew_n or_o a_o pagan_a they_o know_v not_o whether_o and_o inquire_v of_o he_o whether_o they_o be_v to_o be_v rebaptise_v or_o no_o whereunto_o he_o answer_v si_fw-la in_fw-la nomine_fw-la s._n s._n trinitatis_fw-la vel_fw-la tantum_fw-la in_fw-la christi_fw-la nomine_fw-la sicut_fw-la in_o act_n be_v apostolorum_fw-la legimus_fw-la baptizati_fw-la sunt_fw-la unum_fw-la quip_fw-la idemque_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la s._n ambrose_n expressit_fw-la constat_fw-la eos_fw-la denuo_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la baptizandos_fw-la if_o they_o be_v baptise_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o trinity_n or_o of_o christ_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_v again_o let_v a_o blasphemous_a jew_n or_o pagan_n do_v it_o so_o it_o be_v do_v the_o work_n be_v wrought_v grace_v convey_v and_o baptism_n valid_a the_o constant_a practice_n of_o woman_n baptise_v among_o they_o be_v of_o the_o same_o import_n and_o what_o do_v mr_n cawdry_n think_v of_o this_o kind_n of_o baptism_n be_v it_o not_o worth_a the_o contend_n about_o to_o place_v it_o in_o the_o derive_a succession_n of_o we_o who_o know_v but_o that_o some_o of_o these_o person_n baptise_v by_o a_o counterfeit_a impostor_n on_o purpose_n to_o abuse_v and_o defile_v the_o institution_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n may_v come_v to_o be_v baptizer_n themselves_o yea_o bishop_n or_o pope_n from_o who_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n be_v to_o be_v derive_v and_o what_o evidence_n or_o certainty_n can_v any_o man_n have_v that_o his_o baptism_n do_v not_o flow_v from_o this_o fountain_n 3._o nay_o upon_o the_o general_n account_n if_o this_o be_v require_v as_o necessary_a to_o the_o administration_n of_o that_o ordinance_n that_o he_o that_o do_v baptise_v be_v right_o and_o effectual_o baptise_v himself_o who_o can_v in_o faith_n bring_v a_o infant_n to_o any_o to_o be_v baptise_v unless_o he_o himself_o see_v that_o person_n right_o baptise_v as_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o baptism_n then_o we_o be_v no_o more_o concern_v then_o as_o to_o that_o of_o ordination_n by_o what_o way_n or_o mean_n soever_o any_o man_n come_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o jesus_n christ_n by_o that_o way_n and_o mean_n he_o come_v to_o have_v power_n for_o a_o due_a administration_n of_o that_o ordinance_n concerning_o which_o state_n of_o thing_n our_o author_n may_v do_v well_o to_o consult_v beza_n in_o the_o place_n mention_v many_o other_o passage_n there_o be_v in_o this_o chapter_n that_o may_v be_v remark_v and_o a_o return_n easy_o make_v according_a to_o their_o desert_n of_o untruth_n and_o impertinency_n but_o the_o insist_n on_o such_o thing_n look_v more_o like_o child_n play_v at_o push-pin_n than_o the_o management_n of_o a_o serious_a disputation_n take_v a_o instance_n pag._n 23._o he_o seem_v to_o be_v much_o offend_v with_o my_o commend_v he_o and_o tell_v i_o as_o jerome_n say_v of_o ruffinus_n i_o wrong_v he_o with_o praise_n when_o yet_o the_o utmost_a i_o say_v of_o he_o be_v that_o i_o have_v receive_v a_o better_a character_n of_o he_o than_o he_o have_v give_v of_o himself_o in_o his_o book_n pag._n 10._o and_o that_o his_o proceed_n be_v unbecoming_a his_o worth_n gravity_n and_o profession_n pag._n 46._o or_o so_o grave_a and_o reverend_a a_o person_n as_o he_o be_v report_v to_o be_v pag._n 121._o wherein_o it_o seem_v i_o have_v transgress_v the_o rule_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o the_o business_n of_o his_o second_o chapter_n be_v to_o make_v good_a his_o former_a charge_n of_o my_o inconstancy_n and_o inconsistency_n with_o myself_o as_o to_o my_o former_a and_o present_a opinion_n which_o he_o have_v place_v in_o the_o frontispiece_n of_o his_o other_o treatise_n the_o impertinency_n of_o this_o chapter_n have_v be_v intolerable_a but_o that_o the_o loose_a discourse_n of_o it_o be_v relieve_v by_o a_o scheme_n of_o my_o self-contradiction_n in_o the_o close_a his_o design_n he_o profess_v in_o his_o former_a discourse_n be_v not_o to_o blast_v my_o reputation_n or_o to_o cause_v my_o person_n to_o suffer_v but_o to_o prevent_v the_o prevalency_n of_o my_o way_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o my_o person_n that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o his_o intention_n it_o be_v only_o his_o intention_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n i_o bless_v my_o god_n i_o have_v good_a security_n through_o grace_n that_o whether_o he_o or_o other_o like_v mind_v with_o himself_o intend_v any_o such_o thing_n or_o no_o in_o those_o proceed_n of_o his_o and_o they_o which_o seem_v to_o have_v in_o their_o own_o nature_n a_o tendency_n thereunto_o my_o reputation_n shall_v yet_o be_v preserve_v in_o that_o state_n and_o condition_n as_o be_v necessary_a to_o accompany_v i_o in_o the_o duty_n and_o work_n of_o my_o generation_n that_o i_o shall_v through_o the_o hand_n of_o
they_o neither_o agree_v with_o i_o nor_o with_o they_o they_o say_v it_o be_v put_v into_o diverse_a hand_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v give_v only_o to_o believer_n and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o contradiction_n ans_n no_o very_o for_o when_o i_o say_v it_o be_v give_v to_o believer_n as_o such_o and_o express_v virtual_o as_o well_o as_o formal_o the_o meaning_n be_v clear_a it_o be_v give_v to_o all_o believer_n and_o only_o to_o believer_n and_o by_o they_o communicate_v to_o such_o as_o they_o do_v orderly_o choose_v and_o call_v forth_o to_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o publisher_n of_o the_o key_n i_o doubt_v not_o will_v say_v as_o much_o when_o i_o say_v in_o the_o way_n that_o the_o brethren_n may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n in_o defect_n of_o all_o officer_n and_o therefore_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o one_o sort_n of_o man_n the_o brethren_n have_v not_o receive_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n formal_o the_o replyer_n return_v true_o this_o be_v to_o discover_v the_o contradiction_n the_o more_o for_o if_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v deliver_v to_o believer_n as_o such_o than_o the_o power_n of_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n be_v give_v to_o they_o for_o that_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ans._n it_o be_v wearisome_a to_o repeat_v so_o often_o the_o same_o answer_n yet_o let_v i_o say_v it_o once_o more_o and_o leave_v it_o he_o that_o say_v believer_n receive_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n as_o profess_a believer_n he_o say_v all_o of_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o power_n and_o they_o only_o and_o such_o as_o receive_v their_o power_n from_o they_o and_o this_o be_v the_o force_n of_o quatews_fw-la tale_n that_o whosoever_o receive_v any_o thing_n as_o such_o all_o such_o do_v receive_v it_o and_o none_o but_o such_o as_o derive_v it_o from_o they_o but_o say_v the_o replyer_n in_o the_o way_n he_o give_v the_o great_a part_n of_o church_n power_n to_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n pag._n 45._o to_o wit_n to_o ordain_v and_o in_o some_o case_n to_o excommunicate_v all_o their_o church_n officer_n which_o be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n as_o else_o where_o he_o speak_v therefore_o he_o may_v not_o deny_v they_o the_o lesser_a which_o be_v to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n ans._n the_o answer_n be_v ready_a at_o hand_n and_o be_v ready_a at_o his_o hand_n in_o part_n 2_o of_o the_o congregational_a way_n clear_v pag._n 29._o where_o i_o distinguish_v potestas_fw-la into_o officiariam_fw-la and_o honorariam_fw-la excommunication_n by_o the_o brethren_n be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o honoraria_fw-la potestas_fw-la but_o not_o of_o officiaria_fw-la potestas_fw-la to_o preach_v the_o word_n with_o authority_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o seal_n of_o it_o be_v act_n of_o the_o high_a office-power_n in_o the_o church_n popish_a divine_n will_v take_v it_o very_o ill_o if_o any_o act_n of_o church_n power_n be_v say_v to_o be_v high_a than_o conficere_fw-la corpus_fw-la domini_fw-la but_o excommunication_n large_o take_v be_v a_o act_n of_o a_o power_n proper_a to_o a_o community_n any_o community_n have_v power_n ex_fw-la natura_fw-la rei_fw-la to_o receive_v into_o their_o communion_n and_o to_o cast_v not_o of_o their_o communion_n every_o sound_a body_n have_v a_o power_n to_o cast_v out_o his_o own_o superfluous_a humour_n and_o to_o cut_v off_o his_o own_o putrid_a member_n as_o for_o ordination_n though_o we_o look_v at_o it_o with_o dr_n ames_n as_o adjunctum_fw-la consummans_fw-la of_o the_o people_n election_n and_o vocation_n of_o their_o officer_n and_o therefore_o not_o utter_o excentrical_a from_o the_o people_n power_n yet_o our_o church_n do_v not_o practise_v it_o ordinary_o where_o they_o have_v elder_n of_o their_o own_o or_o can_v procure_v other_o elder_n to_o join_v with_o they_o as_o for_o that_o last_o word_n in_o the_o scheme_n of_o the_o first_o contradiction_n i_o know_v not_o whether_o the_o replyer_n put_v any_o weight_n or_o stress_n in_o that_o in_o the_o first_o column_n the_o key_n be_v say_v to_o be_v give_v to_o wit_v partly_o to_o believer_n and_o in_o the_o same_o column_n again_o to_o the_o fraternity_n with_o the_o presbytery_n in_o the_o second_o column_n to_o profess_a believer_n in_o the_o three_o to_o believer_n public_o profess_v their_o faith_n and_o in_o mr_n hooker_n judgement_n not_o to_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o believer_n covenant_v but_o if_o it_o be_v requisite_a to_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o this_o i_o will_v say_v 1._o that_o the_o fraternity_n and_o profess_a believer_n and_o believer_n public_o profess_v their_o faith_n be_v all_o one_o and_o the_o common_a name_n of_o believer_n be_v often_o put_v for_o all_o the_o rest_n they_o that_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n act_n 2._o 47_o and_o 41_o be_v call_v by_o the_o common_a name_n of_o believer_n act_n 2._o 44._o and_o 4._o 32._o when_o mr_n hooker_n say_v the_o power_n be_v not_o give_v to_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o believer_n covenant_v he_o mean_v the_o same_o that_o i_o do_v by_o profess_a believer_n as_o for_o woman_n who_o the_o replyer_n cast_v in_o our_o way_n before_o though_o they_o be_v believer_n and_o so_o partake_v in_o the_o same_o common_a salvation_n as_o also_o in_o the_o word_n and_o seal_n yet_o because_o of_o the_o frailty_n of_o their_o sex_n they_o be_v express_o exempt_v by_o the_o apostle_n from_o any_o act_n of_o power_n in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34_o 35._o and_o 1_o tim:_n 2._o 11_o 12._o yet_o that_o impeach_v not_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o proposition_n that_o all_o the_o fraternity_n of_o believer_n have_v part_n in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n that_o all_o man_n once_o die_v be_v the_o general_a proposition_n of_o the_o apostle_n heb_n 9_o 27._o which_o be_v not_o impeach_v by_o the_o translation_n of_o enoch_n and_o elias_n have_v thus_o clear_v the_o first_o answer_n to_o this_o contradiction_n let_v we_o weigh_v next_o what_o he_o say_v to_o the_o second_o answer_n which_o say_v he_o be_v give_v to_o help_v out_o the_o former_a for_o i_o have_v say_v 2._o if_o there_o have_v be_v some_o difference_n between_o the_o key_n and_o the_o way_n in_o some_o expression_n yet_o it_o lie_v rather_o in_o logical_a term_n then_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o divinity_n or_o church_n practice_n and_o such_o be_v this_o about_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n what_o say_v the_o replyer_n to_o this_o he_o return_v a_o double_a exception_n 1._o say_v he_o have_v it_o be_v only_o a_o lesser_a difference_n about_o a_o logical_a notion_n as_o he_o mince_v it_o the_o assertor_n have_v not_o observe_v it_o but_o a_o difference_n of_o the_o high_a magnitude_n to_o contradiction_n in_o deliver_v a_o new_a way_n be_v very_o remarkable_a how_o shall_v we_o be_v bring_v to_o agree_v with_o they_o that_o contradict_v not_o only_o one_o another_o but_o one_o man_n himself_o answer_n 1._o it_o be_v not_o any_o weakness_n of_o the_o first_o answer_n that_o need_v a_o second_o to_o help_v it_o out_o but_o variety_n of_o fit_a matter_n for_o a_o just_a defence_n produce_v it_o it_o need_v no_o help_n but_o to_o clear_v itself_o from_o groundless_a exception_n answer_n 2._o the_o seem_a difference_n between_o the_o way_n and_o the_o key_n if_o any_o be_v in_o this_o point_n it_o lie_v rather_o in_o logical_a expression_n then_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o divinity_n or_o church_n practise_v for_o what_o ever_o the_o different_a judgement_n of_o man_n of_o our_o way_n may_v be_v touch_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n some_o place_v it_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n other_o divide_v it_o between_o officer_n and_o brethren_n yet_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o divinity_n we_o all_o agree_v with_o one_o accord_n that_o the_o church_n even_o the_o body_n of_o church-member_n have_v power_n to_o choose_v their_o officer_n to_o admit_v member_n and_o to_o censure_v offender_n and_o that_o the_o officer_n only_o have_v power_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n with_o office_n and_o authority_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o according_a to_o this_o unity_n of_o judgement_n be_v the_o uniform_a practice_n of_o our_o church_n and_o therefore_o let_v mince_v be_v leave_v to_o curious_a cook_n to_o prepare_v their_o shred_v meat_n for_o queasy_a stomach_n or_o let_v it_o be_v leave_v to_o such_o as_o will_v make_v the_o best_a of_o a_o bad_a cause_n we_o neither_o distrust_v our_o cause_n to_o be_v of_o god_n nor_o do_v fear_v any_o thing_n more_o than_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v hide_v and_o cloud_v with_o prejudice_n and_o calumny_n from_o such_o as_o know_v it_o not_o and_o yet_o seek_v the_o truth_n in_o sincerity_n and_o
key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n the_o way_n pag._n 1._o that_o be_v a_o combination_n of_o faithful_a man_n as_o mr._n hooker_n 2._o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n belong_v to_o all_o the_o faithful_a whether_o join_v to_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o no_o the_o key_n pag._n 11._o 2_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n be_v give_v not_o only_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o some_o before_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n keyes_n pag._n 2._o ans._n this_o term_n the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n be_v take_v from_o our_o saviour_n word_n in_o luk._n 11._o 52._o where_o he_o reprove_v the_o lawyer_n who_o have_v take_v away_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n and_o neither_o enter_v in_o themselves_o nor_o suffer_v other_o to_o enter_v the_o word_n argue_v that_o the_o enter_n in_o be_v not_o into_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o into_o that_o the_o lawyer_n have_v enter_v and_o be_v willing_a to_o admit_v other_o he_o speak_v therefore_o of_o enter_v into_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n and_o so_o into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o grace_n and_o glory_n the_o solution_n than_o be_v plain_a and_o easy_a the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n or_o faith_n belong_v to_o all_o the_o faithful_a whether_o join_v to_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o no_o for_o by_o it_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o grace_n and_o glory_n but_o if_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o key_n of_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n they_o be_v all_o give_v to_o the_o church_n or_o congregation_n of_o believer_n touch_v the_o three_o contradiction_n the_o three_o contradiction_n be_v decipher_v thus_o 3._o the_o key_n of_o order_n be_v common_a to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n key_n pag._n 8._o then_o say_v we_o to_o woman_n and_o child_n 3_o it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v ordinance_n much_o less_o to_o dispense_v they_o as_o child_n and_o woman_n way_n clear_v part_n 2._o pag._n 19_o ans._n 1._o it_o have_v be_v answer_v above_o that_o such_o general_n proposition_n hold_v true_a notwithstanding_o some_o know_a particular_a exception_n it_o be_v appoint_v to_o all_o man_n once_o to_o die_v which_o be_v a_o undoubted_a truth_n though_o enoch_n and_o elias_n never_o die_v ans._n 2._o the_o child_n of_o church-member_n be_v in_o order_n to_o baptism_n but_o exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n table_n 1_o cor._n 11._o 28._o woman_n have_v some_o part_n of_o the_o key_n of_o order_n whereby_o they_o have_v power_n to_o walk_v orderly_o themselves_o and_o in_o a_o private_a way_n to_o help_v other_o to_o walk_v orderly_o also_o act._n 18._o 26._o tit._n 2._o 3_o 4_o 5._o only_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o admit_v member_n choose_v officer_n censure_v offender_n but_o if_o they_o have_v any_o part_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n the_o proposition_n be_v true_a yea_o and_o it_o be_v true_a also_o though_o they_o have_v be_v keep_v from_o all_o interest_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o key_n touch_v the_o four_o contradiction_n the_o four_o contradiction_n be_v thus_o lay_v out_o 4._o ordination_n be_v a_o work_n of_o rule_n the_o way_n pag._n 49._o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n both_o act_n of_o rule_n pertain_v indifferent_o to_o all_o the_o presbyter_n ibid._n pag._n 49._o 4._o as_o for_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o officer_n these_o thing_n the_o brethren_n may_v do_v if_o need_v be_v without_o officer_n the_o way_n pag._n 45._o 101._o 4._o ordination_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdiction_n but_o of_o order_n rather_o hooker_n survey_n part_n 2._o 75._o ans._n ordination_n they_o that_o make_v the_o least_o of_o it_o make_v it_o a_o act_n of_o prayer_n and_o such_o prayer_n by_o which_o the_o less_o be_v bless_v of_o the_o great_a as_o it_o be_v in_o all_o prayer_n which_o be_v join_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n which_o argue_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o majority_n of_o power_n and_o majority_n of_o power_n may_v without_o a_o solecism_n be_v call_v rule_n though_o not_o office-rule_n yet_o honourable_a pre-eminence_n i_o nowhere_o call_v it_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdiction_n which_o be_v that_o mr_n hooker_n deny_v and_o seem_v to_o deny_v it_o not_o positive_o neither_o but_o comparative_o rather_o ordination_n say_v he_o be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdiction_n but_o of_o order_n rather_o then_o there_o be_v no_o contradiction_n here_o nor_o will_v it_o be_v find_v in_o the_o other_o clause_n for_o though_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n be_v say_v in_o the_o way_n pag_n 49._o to_o pertain_v indifferent_o to_o all_o the_o presbyter_n yet_o that_o be_v express_o speak_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o lord_n bishop_n who_o usurp_v both_o into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o their_o peculiar_a prerogative_n and_o though_o i_o say_v else_o where_o in_o the_o way_n that_o in_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o officer_n the_o brethren_n may_v act_v if_o need_v be_v without_o officer_n yet_o the_o very_a word_n of_o limitation_n if_o need_v be_v argue_v that_o in_o ordinary_a case_n ordination_n pertain_v to_o the_o presbyter_n as_o other_o act_n there_o mention_v do_v pertain_v to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o brethren_n meet_v together_o but_o as_o for_o election_n i_o take_v it_o to_o pertain_v principal_o to_o the_o brethren_n touch_v the_o 5_o contradiction_n the_o 5_o contradiction_n follow_v in_o this_o sort_n 5._o the_o key_n of_o authority_n or_o rule_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o act_n of_o rule_n be_v the_o proper_a act_n of_o their_o office_n key_n pag._n 20._o the_o people_n discern_v and_o approve_v the_o justice_n of_o the_o censure_n give_v consent_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n key_n pag._n 15._o 37._o 41._o the_o people_n stand_v in_o a_o order_n even_o a_o orderly_a subjection_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o gospel_n pag._n 11._o 5._o in_o case_n the_o officer_n do_v err_v and_o give_v offence_n they_o shall_v be_v govern_v by_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o brethren_n the_o way_n pag._n 100_o the_o church_n exercise_v several_a act_n of_o authority_n over_o the_o elder_n the_o way_n pag._n 101._o the_o people_n have_v some_o stork_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n pag._n 36._o they_o rule_v the_o church_n by_o appoint_v their_o own_o officer_n ibid._n pag._n 16._o ans._n 1._o the_o former_a column_n in_o all_o the_o three_o place_n speak_v of_o elder_n walk_v in_o the_o right_a administration_n of_o their_o office_n then_o in_o propriety_n of_o speech_n the_o key_n of_o authority_n and_o rule_n be_v commit_v to_o they_o 1_o tim._n 5._o 17._o and_o be_v there_o make_v the_o proper_a act_n of_o their_o office_n than_o it_o be_v that_o the_o people_n discern_v the_o will_n and_o judgement_n of_o christ_n in_o their_o judgement_n they_o do_v give_v consent_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n in_o censure_n advise_v by_o they_o then_o it_o be_v also_o that_o they_o walk_v in_o orderly_a subjection_n to_o their_o elder_n heb._n 13._o 17._o but_o the_o latter_a column_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n over_o the_o elder_n chief_o in_o case_n of_o the_o elder_n maladministration_n of_o their_o office_n or_o misgovernment_n of_o themselves_o but_o then_o the_o power_n which_o the_o church_n put_v forth_o it_o be_v not_o office_n power_n which_o be_v proper_o authority_n but_o potestas_fw-la honoraria_fw-la answer_n 2._o in_o column_n the_o second_o when_o it_o be_v say_v the_o people_n have_v some_o stock_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n keyes_n pag._n 36._o they_o be_v the_o word_n of_o a_o objection_n not_o of_o my_o own_o assertion_n and_o though_o somewhere_o i_o speak_v of_o act_n of_o authority_n over_o the_o elder_n i_o do_v clear_o explain_v myself_o in_o the_o key_n pag._n 36._o that_o authority_n be_v take_v in_o a_o large_a sense_n and_o after_o a_o sort_n when_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v in_o the_o people_n over_o the_o elder_n as_o 1._o when_o a_o man_n act_v according_a to_o his_o own_o will_v free_o he_o be_v then_o say_v to_o be_v {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o dominus_fw-la sui_fw-la actus_fw-la so_o the_o people_n in_o all_o the_o act_n of_o liberty_n which_o they_o put_v forth_o they_o be_v domini_fw-la sui_fw-la actus_fw-la lord_n of_o their_o own_o action_n 2._o the_o people_n by_o sundry_a act_n of_o liberty_n as_o in_o election_n of_o officer_n in_o send_v forth_o their_o messenger_n in_o concurrence_n with_o their_o elder_n in_o the_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o censure_n of_o offender_n in_o the_o determination_n and_o promulgation_n of_o synodal_a act_n they_o have_v a_o great_a stroke_n and_o power_n in_o
the_o order_n of_o church_n affair_n which_o may_v be_v call_v {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o or_o potestas_fw-la a_o power_n which_o many_o time_n in_o common_a speech_n go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o rule_n or_o authority_n but_o in_o proper_a speech_n it_o be_v indeed_o a_o privilege_n or_o liberty_n a_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o or_o power_n rather_o than_o authority_n it_o be_v a_o common_a speech_n usual_a among_o our_o best_a divine_n that_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v mix_v of_o a_o monarchy_n a_o aristocracy_n and_o a_o democracy_n in_o regard_n of_o christ_n the_o head_n the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sovereign_a and_o monarchical_a in_o regard_n of_o the_o rule_n by_o the_o presbytery_n it_o be_v stewardly_a and_o aristocratical_a in_o regard_n of_o the_o people_n power_n in_o election_n and_o censure_n it_o be_v democratical_a chap._n 3._o touch_v the_o six_o contradiction_n the_o six_o contradiction_n be_v thus_o present_v 6._o examination_n be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n key_n pag._n 16._o the_o church_n can_v excommunicate_v the_o whole_a presbytery_n because_o they_o have_v not_o receive_v from_o christ_n a_o office_n of_o rule_n without_o their_o officer_n ibid._n no_o act_n of_o the_o people_n power_n do_v proper_o bind_v unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o presbytery_n join_v with_o it_o ibid._n pag._n 36._o 6._o if_o all_o their_o officer_n be_v find_v culpable_a either_o in_o heretical_a doctrine_n or_o in_o scandalous_a crime_n the_o church_n have_v lawful_a authority_n to_o proceed_v against_o they_o all_o the_o way_n pag._n 45._o in_o case_n of_o offence_n give_v by_o a_o elder_n or_o the_o whole_a eldership_n together_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o require_v satisfaction_n and_o if_o they_o give_v it_o not_o to_o proceed_v to_o censure_v ibid._n page_n 101._o 6._o excommunication_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o the_o power_n of_o office_n but_o of_o judgement_n nor_o a_o act_n of_o high_a rule_n but_o of_o supreme_a judgement_n seat_v in_o the_o fraternity_n surv._n part_n 3._o pag._n 45._o as_o a_o church_n of_o brethren_n can_v not_o proceed_v to_o any_o public_a censure_n without_o the_o elder_n so_o nor_o the_o elder_n without_o concurrence_n of_o the_o people_n preface_n to_o the_o key_n pag._n 4._o answer_n 1._o here_o be_v indeed_o a_o discrepance_n in_o expression_n between_o the_o way_n and_o the_o key_n but_o it_o be_v not_o my_o act_n that_o any_o such_o discrepance_n shall_v have_v be_v extant_a the_o truth_n be_v that_o many_o year_n ago_o and_o some_o year_n before_o the_o suppress_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o england_n i_o be_v serious_o move_v by_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n and_o fellow_n elder_n here_o to_o draw_v up_o a_o historical_a narration_n of_o our_o churchway_n together_o with_o some_o familiar_a ground_n of_o the_o same_o brief_o in_o short_a time_n as_o god_n help_v i_o dispatch_v it_o which_o when_o our_o brethren_n have_v peruse_v i_o see_v they_o do_v not_o close_o with_o it_o yet_o a_o brother_n go_v for_o england_n get_v somewhere_o a_o copy_n of_o it_o and_o present_v it_o to_o some_o of_o the_o congregational_a way_n there_o and_o i_o afterwards_o hear_v that_o neither_o do_v they_o close_o with_o it_o and_o in_o particular_a not_o with_o that_o passage_n which_o be_v here_o recite_v as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n which_o since_o appear_v more_o open_o by_o the_o asterisk_n put_v upon_o that_o passage_n and_o upon_o sundry_a other_o in_o the_o book_n but_o before_o i_o see_v that_o and_o have_v only_o hear_v that_o they_o do_v not_o full_o accord_n i_o hope_v it_o have_v meet_v with_o a_o timely_a suppression_n rather_o than_o a_o impression_n for_o i_o hear_v no_o more_o of_o it_o for_o two_o or_o three_o year_n after_o mean_v while_n perceive_v that_o one_o main_a point_n of_o dissatisfaction_n be_v the_o authority_n give_v to_o the_o fraternity_n i_o consider_v more_o serious_o and_o distinct_o of_o the_o whole_a power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o express_v my_o apprehension_n in_o that_o treatise_n of_o the_o key_n which_o our_o brethren_n here_o do_v well_o accept_v and_o so_o do_v the_o brethren_n of_o like_a judgement_n in_o england_n and_o some_o of_o they_o be_v please_v to_o attest_v it_o with_o the_o preface_n which_o be_v now_o extant_a before_o it_o yea_o i_o have_v hear_v as_o well_o as_o some_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n here_o by_o some_o letter_n from_o england_n that_o reverend_a mr_n rutherford_n who_o be_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o assembly_n at_o westminster_n offer_v to_o the_o dissent_a brethren_n that_o if_o they_o will_v come_v up_o to_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o key_n themselves_o will_v meet_v they_o there_o but_o this_o be_v sundry_a year_n after_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o way_n have_v be_v finish_v and_o carry_v to_o england_n and_o as_o i_o hope_v suppress_v but_o it_o seem_v some_o brother_n there_o have_v get_v a_o copy_n of_o it_o be_v zealous_a of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o fraternity_n and_o perceive_v that_o their_o authority_n be_v not_o so_o full_o acknowledge_v in_o the_o key_n as_o in_o the_o way_n he_o cause_v his_o copy_n of_o the_o way_n which_o be_v indeed_o abrupt_a in_o the_o entrance_n and_o imperfect_a otherwise_o to_o be_v publish_v in_o print_n which_o when_o i_o see_v it_o trouble_v i_o not_o a_o little_a as_o know_v that_o the_o discrepant_a expression_n in_o the_o one_o and_o in_o the_o other_o may_v trouble_v friend_n and_o give_v advantage_n to_o adversary_n afterwards_o mr_n hooker_n come_v down_o from_o connectiquol_fw-it to_o consult_v with_o the_o elder_n here_o about_o his_o book_n he_o plead_v serious_o for_o the_o place_n of_o all_o church_n power_n primitive_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o also_o for_o their_o judiciary_n power_n of_o censure_n over_o the_o presbytery_n suitable_a to_o what_o i_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o way_n now_o though_o i_o can_v say_v that_o his_o reason_n do_v prevail_v with_o i_o to_o lter_v the_o place_n of_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n from_o what_o i_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o key_n yet_o perceive_v that_o some_o man_n judgement_n do_v more_o adhere_v as_o to_o his_o judgement_n so_o to_o the_o former_a course_n of_o the_o way_n other_o to_o that_o of_o the_o key_n i_o suffer_v both_o to_o stand_v as_o they_o do_v especial_o see_v i_o can_v not_o help_v it_o the_o book_n of_o the_o way_n be_v publish_v without_o my_o consent_n and_o both_o the_o way_n and_o the_o key_n be_v disperse_v into_o many_o hand_n past_o my_o revoke_v and_o refute_v by_o some_o so_o that_o if_o the_o replyer_n find_v some_o discrepancy_n in_o one_o of_o these_o book_n from_o the_o other_o let_v he_o know_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o way_n in_o such_o few_o point_n wherein_o it_o differ_v from_o the_o key_n be_v not_o then_o mine_n when_o the_o key_n be_v publish_v much_o less_o when_o the_o way_n be_v publish_v which_o be_v many_o year_n after_o though_o it_o have_v be_v pen_v many_o year_n before_o and_o yet_o take_v all_o the_o discrepancye_n and_o weigh_v they_o i_o will_v not_o say_v with_o candour_n but_o with_o rigour_n and_o i_o do_v not_o yet_o remember_v nor_o can_v i_o yet_o find_v any_o of_o they_o but_o they_o lie_v rather_o in_o difference_n of_o logical_a notion_n then_o in_o doctrine_n of_o divinity_n or_o church_n practice_n as_o i_o say_v before_o answer_n 2._o this_o further_a let_v i_o acquaint_v both_o the_o replier_n and_o the_o reader_n withal_o that_o sometime_o there_o have_v grow_v a_o question_n among_o we_o whether_o all_o excommunication_n be_v a_o act_n of_o officiaria_fw-la potestas_fw-la or_o not_o some_o honoraria_fw-la only_o if_o of_o officiaria_n it_o can_v be_v dispense_v by_o the_o brethren_n only_o as_o the_o first_o column_n have_v it_o if_o of_o honoraria_fw-la it_o may_v and_o so_o the_o second_o column_n have_v it_o and_o then_o the_o contradiction_n be_v not_o ejusdem_fw-la neither_o be_v this_o censure_n dispense_v by_o the_o brethren_n as_o i_o conceive_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n which_o be_v to_o deliver_v unto_o satan_n 1_o cor._n 5._o 5._o but_o reach_v only_o to_o cast_v their_o elder_n out_o of_o administration_n of_o office_n to_o they_o and_o out_o of_o church_n communion_n with_o they_o the_o truth_n be_v ego_fw-la libenter_fw-la in_fw-la eorum_fw-la me_fw-la numero_fw-la esse_fw-la profiteor_fw-la qui_fw-la proficiendo_fw-la scribunt_fw-la and_o scribendo_fw-la proficiunt_fw-la which_o give_v i_o occasion_n to_o add_v the_o three_o answer_n give_v above_o to_o the_o first_o contradiction_n some_o thing_n in_o the_o