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authority_n bishop_n church_n pastor_n 4,835 5 9.0511 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A05161 A relation of the conference betweene William Lavvd, then, Lrd. Bishop of St. Davids; now, Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury: and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite by the command of King James of ever blessed memorie. VVith an answer to such exceptions as A.C. takes against it. By the sayd Most Reverend Father in God, William, Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury. Laud, William, 1573-1645. 1639 (1639) STC 15298; ESTC S113162 390,425 418

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more_o credit_n than_o he_o can_v give_v they_o but_o that_o which_o follow_v i_o can_v approve_v to_o wit_n that_o the_o lawful_o send_v preacher_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v god_n legate_n and_o the_o scripture_n god_n letter_n which_o he_o have_v appoint_v his_o legate_n to_o deliver_v and_o expound_v so_o far_o it_o be_v well_o but_o here_o be_v the_o sting_n that_o these_o letter_n do_v warrant_n that_o the_o people_n may_v hear_v and_o give_v credit_n to_o these_o legate_n of_o christ_n as_o to_o christ_n the_o king_n himself_o soft_a this_o be_v too_o high_a a_o great_a deal_n no_o himself_o no_o will_n a._n c._n maintain_v that_o any_o legate_n à_fw-fr latere_fw-la be_v of_o as_o great_a credit_n as_o the_o pope_n himself_o legate_n be_v ever_o of_o so_o great_a credit_n as_o the_o king_n himself_o nor_o be_v any_o priest_n never_o so_o lawful_o send_v ever_o of_o that_o authority_n that_o christ_n himself_o no_o sure_a for_o you_o call_v i_o master_n and_o lord_n and_o you_o 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scriptura_fw-la say_v he_o quae_fw-la fidem_fw-la svam_fw-la rebus_fw-la ipsis_fw-la probat_fw-la quae_fw-la per_fw-la temporum_fw-la successiones_fw-la hac_fw-la impleri_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o hen._n a_o gand._n par._n 1._o sum._n a._n 〈◊〉_d q._n 3._o cite_v s._n aug._n book_n de_fw-fr vera_fw-la religione_fw-la in_o which_o book_n though_o these_o four_o argument_n be_v not_o find_v i●…_n term_n together_o yet_o they_o fill_v up_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o whole_a book_n time_n he_o be_v no_o enemy_n to_o church-tradition_n yet_o when_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o the_o author_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o so_o of_o the_o whole_a knowledge_n of_o divinity_n as_o it_o be_v supernatural_a be_v deus_fw-la in_o christo_fw-la god_n in_o christ_n he_o take_v this_o as_o the_o all-sufficient_a way_n and_z gives_z four_o proof_n all_o internal_a to_o the_o scripture_n first_o the_o miracle_n second_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o carnal_a in_o the_o doctrine_n three_o that_o there_o have_v 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a●…l_a ●…nd_n o●…_n scr●…ure_n but_o out_o of_o a_o jealousy_n at_o least_o that_o this_o of_o trent_n and_o some_o other_o have_v in_o their_o determin●…s_n leave_v both_o ●…ter_n and_o sense_n of_o scripture_n show_v this_o against_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o i_o will_v grant_v so_o much_o of_o the_o case_n to_o be_v like_a but_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o ni●…linum_n if_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d l._n 2._o 〈◊〉_d sy●…_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ni●…linum_n const●…_n require_v that_o 〈◊〉_d thus_o bring_v into_o question_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d by_o testimony_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d council_n never_o refuse_v that_o ●…e_n and_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o they_o profess_v they_o depart_v not_o from_o it_o 〈◊〉_d 517._o
emmanuel_n sa_n in_o his_o aphorism_n verbo_fw-la tyrannus_n yet_o he_o be_v so_o moderate_a that_o he_o will_v not_o have_v this_o do_v till_o he_o be_v sentence_v but_o then_o quisquis_fw-la potest_fw-la fieri_fw-la executor_n mariana_n be_v far_o worse_a for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v lawful_a to_o kill_v he_o postquam_fw-la à_fw-la paucis_fw-la seditiost_n sed_fw-la doctis_fw-la caeperit_n tyrannus_n appellari_fw-la l._n 1._o de_fw-la rege_fw-la &_o reg._n justitutione_fw-la c._n 6._o yea_o but_o mariana_n be_v disclaim_v for_o this_o by_o the_o jesuite_n yea_o but_o for_o all_o that_o there_o be_v a_o apology_n print_v in_o italy_n an._n 1610._o permissu_fw-la superiorum_fw-la and_o there_o it_o be_v say_v they_o be_v all_o enemy_n of_o the_o holy_a name_n of_o i●…sus_n 〈◊〉_d condemn_a mariana_n for_o any_o such_o doctrine_n as_o for_o testatus_fw-la no_o sentence_n have_v touch_v upon_o he_o at_o all_o for_o it_o and_o who_o deposition_n and_o vnthron_n ing_z nay_o kill_a of_o prince_n &_o the_o like_a if_o they_o be_v not_o you_o for_o i_o dare_v say_v and_o be_o able_a to_o prove_v there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o be_v rather_o contrary_a then_o conformable_a to_o scripture_n neither_o be_v a._n c._n or_o any_o jesuite_n able_a to_o show_v any_o 1._o any_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la veraciter_fw-la esse_fw-la in_o eucharistià_fw-la ex_fw-la evangelio_n habemus_fw-la conversionem_fw-la vero_fw-la panis_n in_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la evangelium_fw-la non_fw-la explicavit_fw-la sed_fw-la express_v ab_fw-la ecclesià_fw-la accepimus_fw-la cajetan_n in_o th●…m_n 3._o q._n 75._o art_n 1._o scripture_n interpret_v by_o union_n or_o indulgentia_fw-la or_o de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_n in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la alph._n a_o castro_n l._n 8._o advers._fw-la haer._n uerbo_fw-la indulgentia_fw-la consent_n of_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n to_o prove_v any_o one_o of_o these_o nor_o any_o definition_n of_o ancient_a counsel_n but_o only_o 1._o only_o conc._n lateran_n can._n 1._o lateran_n for_o transubstantiation_n and_o that_o of_o 13._o of_o conc._n constan._n sess._n 13._o constance_n for_o the_o eucharist_n in_o one_o kind_n which_o two_o be_v modern_a at_o least_o far_o downward_o from_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o have_v do_v more_o mischief_n to_o the_o church_n by_o those_o their_o determination_n then_o will_v be_v cure_v i_o fear_v in_o many_o generation_n so_o whatever_n a._n c._n think_v yet_o i_o have_v reason_n enough_o to_o leave_v the_o jesuite_n to_o look_v to_o his_o own_o soul_n but_o a._n c._n have_v as_o it_o seem_v little_a new_a matter_n be_v at_o the_o same_o again_o and_o over_o and_o over_o it_o must_v go_v that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o save_v faith_n that_o this_o one_o faith_n be_v 70._o a._n c._n p._n 70._o once_o the_o roman_a and_o that_o i_o grant_v one_o may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o roman_a faith_n to_o all_o which_o i_o have_v abundant_o answer_v 10._o answer_v §._o 35._o n._n 1._o &_o §._o 38._o n_o 10._o before_o marry_o than_o he_o infer_v that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o we_o can_v have_v our_o soul_n save_v without_o we_o entire_o hold_v this_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o s._n athanasius_n say_v unless_o a_o man_n hold_v entire_o he_o can_v be_v save_v now_o here_o again_o be_v more_o in_o the_o conclusion_n then_o in_o the_o premise_n and_o so_o the_o inference_n fail_v for_o say_v there_o be_v a_o time_n in_o which_o the_o catholic_a and_o the_o roman_a faith_n be_v one_o and_o such_o a_o time_n there_o be_v when_o the_o roman_a faith_n be_v catholic_a and_o famous_a through_o the_o world_n rom._n 1._o yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v since_o the_o trident._n the_o council_n triden_n bulla_n pii_fw-la 4_o super_fw-la formâ_fw-la juramenti_fw-la professionis_fw-la fidei_fw-la ad_fw-la finem_fw-la council_n trident._n council_n 8._o rom._n 1._o 8._o of_o trent_n have_v add_v a_o new_a creed_n that_o this_o roman_a faith_n be_v now_o the_o catholic_a for_o it_o have_v add_v extranea_fw-la thing_n without_o the_o foundation_n disputable_a if_o not_o false_a conclusion_n to_o the_o faith_n so_o that_o now_o a_o man_n may_v believe_v the_o whole_a and_o entire_a catholic_a faith_n even_o as_o s._n athanasius_n require_v and_o yet_o just_o refuse_v for_o dross_n a_o great_a part_n of_o that_o which_o be_v now_o d._n now_o and_o this_o be_v so_o much_o the_o more_o remark●…ble_a if_o it_o be_v true_a which_o thomas_n have_v s._n 〈◊〉_d non_fw-la composuisse_fw-la hanc_fw-la ●…nifestationem_fw-la fide●…_n per_fw-la m●…dum_fw-la symboli_fw-la sed_fw-la per_fw-la modum_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la etc._n etc._n et_fw-la deinde_fw-la authoritate_fw-la summi_fw-la pontificis_fw-la receptam_fw-la esse_fw-la ut_fw-la quasi_fw-la regula_n fidei_fw-la habeatur_fw-la the._n 2._o 2ae_fw-la q._n 1._o a._n 10._o ad_fw-la 3._o symbolo_fw-la apost●…rum_fw-la addita_fw-la sunt_fw-la duo_fw-la alia_fw-la scilicet_fw-la symbolum_n nicaenum_n &_o s._n athanasii_n admajorem_fw-la fidei_fw-la explanationem_fw-la biel._n in_o 3._o sent._n d._n 25._o q._n unicâ_fw-la a._n 1._o d._n the_o roman_a faith_n and_o athanasius_n himself_o as_o if_o he_o mean_v to_o arm_v the_o catholic_a faith_n against_o all_o corrupt_a addition_n have_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o symb._n his_o s._n athanas._o in_o symb._n creed_n these_o word_n this_o be_v the_o catholic_a faith_n this_o and_o no_o other_o this_o and_o no_o other_o than_o here_o follow_v and_o again_o at_o the_o end_n of_o his_o creed_n triaent_n creed_n and_o yet_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v add_v twelve_o new_a article_n say_v thus_o o●…_n they_o also_o haec_fw-la est_fw-la vera_fw-la catholica_fw-la fide●…_n extra_fw-la quam_fw-la nemo_fw-la salvus_fw-la esse_fw-la potest_fw-la etc._n etc._n bulla_n 〈◊〉_d 4._o super_fw-la forma_fw-la juramenti_fw-la professionis_fw-la fidei_fw-la in_o sine_fw-la council_n triaent_n this_o be_v the_o catholic_a faith_n 3._o faith_n integram_fw-la fid●…i_fw-la veritatem_fw-la ejus_fw-la doctrina_fw-la breviter_fw-la continet_fw-la tho._n 2._o 〈◊〉_d q._n 1._o a._n 10._o ad_fw-la 3._o this_o and_o no_o more_o than_o be_v here_o deliver_v always_o presuppose_v the_o apostle_n creed_n as_o athanasius_n do_v and_o this_o be_v the_o large_a of_o all_o creed_n so_o that_o if_o a._n c._n will_v wipe_v his_o eye_n from_o the_o mist_n which_o rise_v about_o tiber_n he_o may_v see_v how_o our_o soul_n may_v be_v save_v believe_v the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o that_o entire_a without_o the_o addition_n of_o roman_a leaven_n but_o if_o he_o can_v or_o i_o doubt_v will_v not_o see_v it_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o by_o god_n grace_n we_o see_v it_o and_o therefore_o once_o more_o i_o leave_v he_o and_o he_o to_o look_v to_o their_o own_o soul_n after_o this_o a._n c._n be_v busy_a in_o unfolding_a the_o meaning_n of_o this_o great_a father_n of_o the_o church_n s._n athanasius_n and_o 70._o a._n c._n p._n 70._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o say_v in_o his_o creed_n that_o without_o doubt_v every_o man_n shall_v perish_v that_o hold_v not_o the_o catholic_a faith_n entire_a that_o be_v say_v a._n c._n in_o every_o point_n of_o it_o and_o inviolate_a that_o be_v in_o the_o right_a sense_n and_o for_o the_o true_a formal_a reason_n of_o divine_a revelation_n sufficient_o apply_v to_o our_o understanding_n by_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n propose_v to_o we_o by_o her_o pastor_n this_o revelation_n well_o we_o shall_v not_o differ_v much_o from_o a._n c._n in_o expound_v the_o meaning_n of_o s._n athanasius_n yet_o some_o few_o thing_n i_o shall_v here_o observe_v and_o first_o i_o agree_v that_o he_o which_o hope_n for_o salvation_n must_v believe_v the_o catholic_a faith_n whole_a and_o entire_a in_o every_o point_n next_o i_o agree_v that_o he_o must_v likewise_o hold_v it_o inviolate_a if_o to_o believe_v it_o in_o the_o right_a sense_n be_v to_o hold_v it_o inviolate_a but_o by_o a._n c_o s._n leave_n the_o believe_v of_o the_o creed_n in_o the_o right_a sense_n be_v comprehend_v in_o the_o first_o branch_n the_o keep_n of_o it_o whole_a and_o entire_a for_o no_o man_n can_v proper_o be_v say_v to_o believe_v the_o whole_a creed_n that_o believe_v not_o the_o whole_a sense_n as_o well_o as_o the_o letter_n of_o it_o and_o as_o entire_o but_o three_o for_o the_o word_n inviolate_a it_o be_v indeed_o use_v by_o he_o that_o translate_v athanasius_n but_o the_o father_n be_v own_o word_n be_v that_o he_o that_o will_v be_v save_v must_v keep_v the_o faith_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d now_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v the_o sound_n and_o entire_a faith_n and_o it_o can_v be_v a_o sound_a faith_n unless_o the_o sense_n be_v as_o whole_a and_o entire_a as_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o creed_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v compound_v of_o the_o privative_a particle_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o
error_n and_o superstition_n which_o suit_n not_o with_o my_o own_o fancy_n but_o how_o can_v this_o possible_o be_v since_o i_o submit_v my_o judgement_n in_o all_o humility_n to_o the_o scripture_n interpret_v by_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o upon_o new_a and_o necessary_a doubt_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o lawful_a and_o free_a general_n council_n and_o this_o i_o do_v from_o my_o very_a heart_n and_o do_v abhor_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n that_o my_o own_o or_o any_o private_a man_n fancy_n shall_v take_v any_o place_n and_o least_o of_o all_o against_o thing_n general_o hold_v or_o practise_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o to_o oppose_v in_o such_o thing_n be_v certain_o as_o 5._o as_o s._n aug._n epist._n ●…8_n 〈◊〉_d 5._o s._n augustine_n call_v it_o insolentissimae_fw-la insaniae_fw-la a_o attempt_n of_o most_o insolent_a madness_n but_o those_o thing_n which_o the_o church_n of_o england_n charge_n upon_o the_o roman_a party_n to_o be_v superstitious_a and_o erroneous_a be_v not_o hold_v or_o practise_v in_o or_o by_o the_o universal_a church_n general_o either_o for_o time_n or_o place_n and_o now_o i_o will_v have_v a._n c._n consider_v how_o just_o all_o this_o may_v be_v turn_v upon_o himself_o for_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o pretend_v that_o there_o be_v not_o gross_a superstition_n and_o error_n in_o the_o roman_a persuasion_n unless_o by_o intolerable_a pride_n he_o will_v make_v himself_o and_o his_o party_n judge_n of_o controversy_n as_o in_o effect_n he_o do_v for_o he_o will_v be_v judge_v by_o none_o but_o the_o pope_n and_o a_o council_n of_o his_o order_n or_o unless_o he_o will_v take_v authority_n to_o free_a from_o superstition_n and_o error_n whatsoever_o suit_n with_o his_o fancy_n though_o it_o be_v even_a superstition_n itself_o and_o run_v cross_a to_o what_o have_v be_v general_o hold_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n yea_o though_o to_o do_v so_o be_v in_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n most_o insolent_a madness_n and_o a._n c._n speak_v in_o this_o most_o proper_o when_o he_o call_v it_o take_v of_o authority_n for_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v in_o this_o particular_a of_o judge_a controversy_n indeed_o take_v that_o authority_n to_o themselves_o which_o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o church_n catholic_a do_v ever_o give_v they_o here_o the_o conference_n end_v with_o this_o conclusion_n and_o as_o i_o hope_v god_n have_v give_v that_o lady_n mercy_n so_o i_o hearty_o pray_v that_o he_o will_v be_v please_v to_o give_v all_o of_o you_o a_o light_n of_o his_o truth_n and_o a_o love_n to_o it_o that_o you_o may_v no_o long_o be_v make_v instrument_n of_o the_o pope_n boundless_a ambition_n and_o this_o most_o unchristian_a 6._o unchristian_a §._o 33._o nurse_n 6._o brainsick_a device_n that_o in_o all_o controversy_n of_o the_o faith_n he_o be_v infallible_a and_o that_o by_o way_n of_o inspiration_n and_o prophecy_n in_o the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o give_v to_o the_o due_a consideration_n of_o which_o and_o god_n mercy_n in_o christ_n i_o leave_v you_o to_o this_o conclusion_n of_o the_o conference_n between_o i_o and_o the_o jesuite_n a._n c._n say_v not_o much_o but_o that_o which_o he_o do_v say_v be_v either_o the_o self_n same_o which_o he_o have_v say_v already_o or_o else_o be_v quite_o mistake_v in_o the_o business_n that_o which_o he_o have_v say_v already_o be_v this_o that_o in_o matter_n 73._o a._n c._n p._n 73._o of_o faith_n we_o be_v to_o submit_v our_o judgement_n to_o such_o doctor_n and_o pastor_n as_o by_o visible_a continual_a succession_n without_o change_n bring_v the_o faith_n down_o from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o these_o our_o day_n and_o shall_v so_o carry_v it_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n and_o that_o this_o succession_n be_v not_o find_v in_o any_o other_o church_n differ_v in_o doctrine_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n now_o to_o this_o i_o have_v give_v a_o full_a answer_n 4._o answer_n §._o 57_o nu._n 3_o 4._o already_o and_o therefore_o will_v not_o trouble_v the_o reader_n with_o needless_a and_o troublesome_a repetition_n then_o he_o bring_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v the_o pope_n infallibility_n but_o to_o all_o these_o place_n i_o have_v likewise_o answer_v 5._o answer_v §._o 25._o nu._n 5._o before_o and_o therefore_o a._n c._n need_v not_o to_o repeat_v they_o again_o as_o if_o they_o have_v be_v unanswerable_a one_o place_n of_o scripture_n only_o a._n c._n have_v not_o urge_v before_o either_o for_o proof_n of_o this_o continue_a visible_a succession_n or_o for_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n nor_o do_v a._n c._n distinct_o 73._o a._n c._n p._n 73._o set_v down_o by_o which_o of_o the_o two_o he_o will_v prove_v it_o the_o place_n be_v 11._o be_v ephe●…_n 4._o 11._o ephes._n 4._o christ_n ascend_v give_v some_o to_o be_v apostle_n some_o prophet_n some_o evangelist_n some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n now_o if_o he_o do_v mean_a to_o prove_v the_o pope_n infallibility_n by_o this_o place_n in_o his_o pastoral_a judgement_n true_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o this_o can_v possible_o be_v collect_v thence_o apostle_n thence_o pontificatus_fw-la summus_n disertè_fw-la positus_fw-la est_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolo_n in_fw-la illis_fw-la verbis_fw-la eph._n 4._o 11._o &_o in_o illis_fw-la clarioribus_fw-la 1._o cor._n 12._o 28._o ipse_fw-la posuit_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la primùm_fw-la apostolos_fw-la etc._n etc._n bellar._n l._n 1._o de_fw-fr ro._n pont._n c._n 1._o §._o respondeo_fw-la pontificatum_fw-la and_o he_o give_v a_o excellent_a reason_n for_o it_o siquidem_fw-la summa_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la non_fw-la solùm_fw-la data_fw-la est_fw-la petro_n sedetiam_fw-la aliis_fw-la apostolis_n ibid._n so_o belike_o by_o this_o reason_n the_o apostle_n do_v clear_o express_v the_o popedom_n because_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n have_v as_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o s._n peter_n have_v but_o then_o bellarmine_n will_v salve_v it_o up_o with_o this_o that_o this_o power_n be_v give_v petro_n ut_fw-la ordinary_n pastori_fw-la cvi_fw-la succederetur_fw-la aliis_fw-la verò_fw-la tanquam_fw-la delegatis_fw-la quibus_fw-la non_fw-la succederetur_fw-la ibid._n but_o this_o be_v mere_a beg_n of_o the_o question_n and_o will_v never_o be_v grant_v unto_o he_o and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o have_v his_o absolute_a confession_n for_o the_o other_o that_o the_o supreme_a ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v not_o in_o s._n peter_n alone_o but_o in_o all_o the_o apostle_n christ_n give_v some_o to_o be_v apostle_n for_o the_o edification_n of_o his_o church_n therefore_o s._n peter_n and_o all_o his_o successor_n be_v infallible_a in_o their_o pastoral_a judgement_n and_o if_o he_o mean_v to_o prove_v the_o continue_a visible_a succession_n which_o he_o say_v be_v to_o he_o find_v in_o no_o church_n but_o the_o roman_a there_o be_v a_o little_a more_o show_n but_o to_o no_o more_o purpose_n a_o little_a more_o show_v because_o it_o be_v add_v 13._o add_v eph._n 4._o 13._o verse_n 13._o that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n shall_v continue_v at_o their_o work_n and_o that_o must_v needs_o be_v by_o succession_n till_o we_o all_o meet_v in_o unity_n and_o perfection_n of_o christ._n but_o to_o no_o more_o purpose_n for_o it_o be_v not_o say_v that_o they_o or_o their_o successor_n shall_v continue_v at_o this_o their_o work_n in_o a_o personal_a uninterrupted_a succession_n in_o any_o one_o particular_a church_n roman_a or_o other_o nor_o ever_o will_v a._n c._n be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o such_o a_o succession_n be_v necessary_a in_o any_o one_o particular_a place_n and_o if_o he_o can_v yet_o his_o own_o word_n tell_v we_o the_o personal_a succession_n be_v nothing_o if_o the_o faith_n be_v not_o bring_v down_o without_o change_n from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o this_o day_n and_o so_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n now_o here_o be_v a_o piece_n of_o cunning_a too_o the_o faith_n 73._o a._n c._n p._n 73._o bring_v down_o unchanged_a for_o if_o a._n c._n mean_v by_o the_o faith_n the_o creed_n and_o that_o in_o letter_n it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v receive_v and_o bring_v down_o the_o faith_n unchanged_a from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o these_o our_o day_n but_o then_o it_o be_v apparent_o false_a that_o no_o church_n differ_v from_o the_o roman_a in_o doctrine_n have_v keep_v that_o faith_n unchanged_a and_o that_o by_o a_o visible_a and_o continue_a succession_n for_o the_o greek_a church_n differ_v from_o the_o roman_a in_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o have_v so_o keep_v that_o faith_n unchanged_a but_o if_o he_o mean_v by_o the_o faith_n unchanged_a and_o yet_o bring_v down_o in_o a_o continual_a visible_a succession_n not_o only_o the_o creed_n in_o letter_n but_o in_o sense_n
that_o proposition_n in_o terminis_fw-la so_o here_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o a._n c_o '_o s._n dilemma_n fall_v off_o for_o i_o say_v not_o that_o only_o the_o point_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v fundamental_a whether_o express_v or_o not_o express_v that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v that_o i_o say_v and_o yet_o though_o the_o foundation_n of_o his_o dilemma_n be_v fall_v away_o i_o will_v take_v the_o boldness_n to_o tell_v a._n c._n that_o if_o i_o have_v say_v that_o those_o article_n only_o which_o be_v express_v in_o the_o creed_n be_v fundamental_a it_o will_v have_v be_v hard_o to_o have_v exclude_v the_o scripture_n upon_o which_o the_o creed_n itself_o in_o every_o point_n be_v ground_v for_o nothing_o be_v suppose_v to_o shut_v out_o its_o own_o foundation_n and_o if_o i_o shall_v now_o say_v that_o some_o article_n be_v fundamental_a which_o be_v enfold_v in_o the_o creed_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o therefore_o some_o unwritten_a tradition_n be_v fundamental_a some_o tradition_n i_o deny_v not_o true_a and_o firm_a and_o of_o great_a both_o authority_n and_o use_v in_o the_o church_n as_o be_v apostolical_a but_o yet_o not_o fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n and_o it_o will_v be_v a_o mighty_a large_a fold_n which_o shall_v lap_v up_o tradition_n within_o the_o creed_n as_o for_o that_o tradition_n that_o the_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v divine_a and_o infallible_a in_o every_o part_n i_o will_v handle_v that_o when_o i_o come_v to_o the_o proper_a place_n 1._o place_n §._o 16._o n._n 1._o for_o it_o f._n i_o ask_v how_o than_o it_o happen_v as_o m._n rogers_n say_v that_o the_o english_a church_n be_v not_o yet_o resolve_v what_o be_v the_o right_a sense_n of_o the_o article_n of_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n b._n the_o english_a church_n never_o make_v doubt_n that_o §_o 12_o i_o know_v what_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o that_o article_n the_o word_n be_v so_o plain_a they_o bear_v their_o meaning_n before_o they_o she_o be_v content_a to_o put_v that_o 3._o that_o art_n 3._o article_n among_o those_o to_o which_o she_o require_v subscription_n not_o as_o doubt_v of_o the_o sense_n but_o to_o prevent_v the_o cavil_n of_o some_o who_o have_v be_v too_o busy_a in_o crucify_a that_o article_n and_o in_o make_v it_o all_o one_o with_o the_o article_n of_o the_o cross_n or_o but_o a_o exposition_n of_o it_o and_o sure_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v better_a resolve_v of_o the_o right_a sense_n of_o this_o article_n than_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n especial_o if_o she_o must_v be_v try_v by_o her_o writer_n as_o you_o try_v the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o m._n rogers_n for_o you_o can_v agree_v whether_o this_o article_n be_v a_o mere_a tradition_n or_o whether_o it_o have_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o warrant_n it_o 1._o it_o scotus_n in_o 1._o d._n 11._o q._n 1._o scotus_n and_o 1._o and_o stapleton_n relect._n con._n 5._o q._n 5._o art_n 1._o stapleton_n allow_v it_o no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n but_o docent_fw-la but_o bellarm_n 4._o de_fw-fr christo._n c._n 6._o &_o 12._o scripturae_fw-la passim_fw-la hoc_fw-la docent_fw-la bellarmine_n be_v resolute_a that_o this_o article_n be_v every_o where_o in_o scripture_n and_o 1_o and_o thom._n 2_o ●…ae_fw-la q._n 1._o a_o 9_o ad_fw-la 1_o thomas_n grant_v as_o much_o for_o the_o whole_a creed_n the_o church_n of_o england_n never_o doubt_v it_o and_o s._n 99_o s._n s._n aug._n ep._n 99_o augustine_n prove_v it_o and_o yet_o again_o you_o be_v different_a for_o the_o sense_n for_o you_o agree_v not_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n in_o triduo_fw-la mortis_fw-la in_o the_o time_n of_o his_o death_n do_v go_v down_o into_o hell_n real_o and_o be_v present_a there_o or_o virtual_o and_o by_o effect_n only_o for_o essentiam_fw-la for_o tho._n p._n 3._o q._n 52._o a._n 2._o c._n per_fw-la svam_fw-la essentiam_fw-la thomas_n hold_v the_o first_o and_o 3._o and_o dur_n in_o 3._o d._n 22._o q._n 3._o durand_n the_o late_a then_o you_o agree_v not_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n do_v descend_v real_o and_o in_o essence_n into_o the_o low_a pit_n of_o hell_n and_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a as_o 16._o as_o bellar._n l._n 4._o do_v christo._n c._n 16._o bellarmine_n once_o hold_v probable_a and_o prove_v it_o or_o real_o only_a into_o that_o place_n or_o region_n of_o hell_n which_o you_o call_v limbum_fw-la patrum_fw-la and_o then_o but_o virtual_o from_o thence_o into_o the_o low_a hell_n to_o which_o 11._o which_o bellar._n recog_n p._n 11._o bellarmine_n reduce_v himself_o and_o give_v his_o reason_n because_o it_o be_v the_o 2._o the_o sequuntur_fw-la enim_fw-la tho._n p._n 3._o q._n 52._o a._n 2._o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o school_n now_o the_o church_n of_o england_n take_v the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o believe_v they_o without_o far_a dispute_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n which_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a father_n of_o the_o church_n agree_v in_o and_o yet_o if_o any_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v not_o be_v thorough_o resolve_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o this_o article_n be_v it_o not_o as_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o say_v i_o conceive_v thus_o or_o thus_o of_o it_o yet_o if_o any_o other_o way_n of_o his_o descent_n be_v find_v true_a than_o this_o i_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o know_v no_o other_o as_o it_o be_v for_o 9_o for_o non_fw-fr est_fw-fr pertinaciter_fw-la asserendum_fw-la quin_fw-la anima_fw-la christi_fw-la per_fw-la alium_fw-la modum_fw-la nobis_fw-la ignotum_fw-la potuerit_fw-la descendere_fw-la ad_fw-la infernum_fw-la nec_fw-la nos_fw-la negamus_fw-la alium_fw-la modum_fw-la esse_fw-la for_o sit_v a_o veriorem_fw-la sed_fw-la fatemur_fw-la nos_fw-la illum_fw-la ignor_fw-it arc_n durand_n in_o 3._o send_v dist._n 22._o q._n 3._o nu._n 9_o durand_n to_o say_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o impeach_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o faith_n f._n the_o bishop_n say_v that_o m._n rogers_n be_v but_o a_o private_a man_n but_o say_v i_o if_o m._n rogers_n write_v as_o he_o do_v by_o public_a authority_n be_v account_v only_o a_o private_a man_n etc._n etc._n b._n i_o say_v truth_n when_o i_o say_v m._n rogers_n be_v a_o private_a §_o 13_o man_n and_o i_o take_v it_o you_o will_v not_o allow_v every_o speech_n of_o every_o man_n though_o allow_v by_o authority_n to_o have_v his_o book_n print_v to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v rome_n and_o this_o be_v a_o ancient_a fault_n too_o for_o s._n augustine_n check_v at_o it_o in_o his_o time_n noli_fw-la colligere_fw-la calumnias_fw-la ex_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la scriptis_fw-la sive_fw-la hillarii_n sive_fw-la cypriani_fw-la &_o agrippini_fw-la primò_fw-la quia_fw-la hoc_fw-la genus_fw-la literarum_fw-la ab_fw-la authoritate_fw-la canonis_fw-la distinguendum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la enim_fw-la sic_fw-la leguntur_fw-la tanquam_fw-la it_o a_o ex_fw-la iis_fw-la testimonium_fw-la proferatur_fw-la ut_fw-la contrà_fw-la sentire_fw-la non_fw-la liceat_fw-la sicubi_fw-la fortè_fw-la aliter_fw-la sentirent_fw-la quàm_fw-la veritas_fw-la postulat_fw-la s._n aug._n ep._n 48._o etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o these_o be_v far_o great_a man_n in_o their_o generation_n than_o m._n rogers_n be_v this_o have_v be_v oft_o complain_v of_o on_o both_o side_n the_o impose_v particular_a man_n assertion_n upon_o the_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v you_o mean_v not_o to_o leave_v it_o and_o sure_o as_o controversy_n be_v now_o handle_v by_o some_o of_o your_o party_n at_o this_o day_n i_o may_v not_o say_v it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n in_o hand_n but_o i_o have_v long_o think_v it_o a_o kind_n os_fw-la descent_n into_o hell_n to_o be_v conversant_a in_o they_o i_o will_v the_o author_n will_v take_v heed_n in_o time_n and_o not_o seek_v to_o blind_v the_o people_n or_o cast_v a_o mist_n before_o evident_a truth_n lest_o it_o cause_v a_o final_a descent_n to_o that_o place_n of_o torment_n but_o since_o you_o will_v hold_v this_o course_n stapleton_n be_v of_o great_a note_n with_o you_o than_o m._n rogers_n his_o exposition_n of_o note_n upon_o the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v with_o we_o and_o as_o he_o so_o his_o relection_n and_o be_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o stapleton_n affirm_v 1._o affirm_v stapl._n cont._n 5._o q._n 5._o a._n 1._o the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o a_o apostolic_a church_n if_o it_o be_v then_o what_o will_v become_v of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v he_o have_v his_o power_n over_o the_o catholic_a church_n give_v he_o express_o in_o scripture_n in_o the_o 19_o the_o s._n mat._n 16._o 19_o key_n to_o enter_v and_o in_o 15._o in_o s._n joh._n 21._o 15._o pasce_fw
the_o roman_a church_n with_o his_o colleague_n the_o transmarine_a bishop_n non_fw-la debuit_fw-la ought_v not_o usurp_v to_o himself_o this_o judgement_n which_o be_v determine_v by_o seventy_o african_a bishop_n tigisitanus_n sit_v primate_n ●…nd_v what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o he_o do_v not_o usurp_v this_o power_n for_o the_o emperor_n be_v desire_v send_v bishop_n judge_n which_o shall_v sit_v with_o he_o and_o determine_v what_o be_v just_a upon_o the_o whole_a cause_n in_o which_o passage_n there_o be_v very_o many_o thing_n observable_a as_o first_o that_o the_o roman_a prelate_n come_v not_o in_o till_o there_o be_v leave_v for_o they_o to_o go_v to_o transmarine_a bishop_n second_o that_o if_o the_o pope_n have_v come_v in_o without_o this_o leave_n it_o have_v be_v a_o usurpation_n three_o that_o when_o he_o do_v thus_o come_v in_o not_o by_o his_o own_o proper_a authority_n but_o by_o leave_n there_o be_v other_o bishop_n make_v judge_n with_o he_o four_o that_o these_o other_o bishop_n be_v appoint_v and_o send_v by_o the_o emperor_n and_o his_o power_n that_o which_o the_o pope_n will_v least_o of_o all_o endure_v last_o lest_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o adherent_n shall_v say_v this_o be_v a_o usurpation_n in_o the_o emperor_n 162._o emperor_n ad_fw-la cujus_fw-la cuvan●…ds_n quâ_fw-la rationem_fw-la deo_fw-la redditurus_fw-la est_fw-la res_fw-la illa_fw-la maximè_fw-la pertinebat_fw-la s._n aug._n epist_n 162._o s._n augustine_n tell_v we_o a_o little_a before_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n still_o that_o this_o do_v chief_o belong_v ad_fw-la curam_fw-la ejus_fw-la to_o the_o emperor_n care_n and_o charge_n and_o that_o he_o be_v to_o give_v a_o account_n to_o god_n for_o it_o and_o melciades_n do_v sit_v and_o judge_v the_o business_n with_o all_o christian_a prudence_n and_o moderation_n so_o at_o this_o time_n the_o roman_a prelate_n be_v not_o receive_v as_o pastor_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n say_v a._n c._n what_o he_o please_v nor_o have_v he_o any_o supremacy_n over_o the_o other_o patriarch_n and_o for_o this_o be_v all_o other_o record_n of_o antiquity_n silent_a the_o civil_a law_n be_v proof_n enough_o and_o that_o be_v a_o monument_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n the_o text_n there_o be_v 22._o be_v nam_fw-la contra_fw-la horum_fw-la antistitum_fw-la de_fw-la patriarchis_fw-la loquor_fw-la sententias_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la locum_fw-la appellationi_fw-la à_fw-la majoribus_fw-la nostris_fw-la ●…itutum_fw-la est_fw-la ●…od_a l_o 1._o tit._n 4._o l._n 29._o ex_fw-la ●…ditions_n gothofredi_n si_fw-mi non_fw-la rata_fw-la habuerit_fw-la ●…traque_fw-la pars_fw-la qua_fw-la judicata_fw-la sunt_fw-la tunc_fw-la beatissimn_v patriarcha_fw-la dioceseôs_fw-la illius_fw-la ●…ter_fw-la eos_fw-la audiat_fw-la etc._n etc._n nullâ_fw-la parte_fw-la ejus_fw-la sententiae_fw-la contradicere_fw-la valente_fw-la authen_n co●…at_fw-la 9_o tit._n 15._o c._n 22._o a_o patriarchâ_fw-la non_fw-la datur_fw-la appellatio_fw-la from_o a_o patriarch_n there_o lie_v no_o appeal_v no_o appeal_v therefore_o every_o patriarch_n be_v alike_o supreme_a in_o his_o own_o patriarchate_n therefore_o the_o pope_n then_o have_v no_o supremacy_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n therefore_o certain_o not_o then_o receive_v as_o universal_a pastor_n and_o s._n gregory_n himself_o speak_v of_o appeal_v and_o express_o cite_v the_o law_n themselves_o say_v plain_o 54._o plain_o et_fw-la ille_fw-la scilicet_fw-la patriarcha_fw-la secundum_fw-la canon_n &_o leges_fw-la pr●…bent_fw-la finem_fw-la and_o there_o he_o cite_v the_o novel_a its_o self_n s._n greg._n l._n 11._o judict_n 6._o epist._n 54._o that_o the_o patriarch_n be_v to_o put_v a_o final_a end_n to_o those_o cause_n which_o come_v before_o he_o by_o appeal_v from_o bishop_n and_o archbishop_n but_o then_o he_o add_v ibid._n add_v si_fw-mi dictum_fw-la fu●…it_fw-la quòd_fw-la nec_fw-la metropolitanum_n habeat_fw-la nec_fw-la patriarcham_fw-la dicendum_fw-la est_fw-la quòd_fw-la à_fw-la sede_n apostolicâ_fw-la quae_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la caput_fw-la est_fw-la causa_fw-la andienda_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n s._n greg._n ibid._n that_o where_o there_o be_v nor_o metropolitan_a nor_o patriarch_n of_o that_o diocese_n there_o they_o be_v to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a as_o be_v the_o head_n of_o all_o church_n where_o first_o this_o imply_v plain_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o metropolitan_a or_o a_o patriarch_n in_o those_o church_n his_o judgement_n be_v final_a and_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v no_o appeal_v to_o rome_n second_o it_o be_v as_o plain_a that_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n of_o the_o church-government_n britain_n be_v never_o subject_a to_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n for_o it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o 48._o the_o notitia_fw-la provinciarum_fw-la occidentalium_fw-la per_fw-la guidum_fw-la pancirolum_fw-la l._n 2._o c._n 48._o six_o diocese_n of_o the_o west_n empire_n and_o have_v a_o primate_n of_o its_o own_o nay_o 1601._o nay_o hunc_fw-la cunctis_fw-la liberalium_fw-la artium_fw-la disciplinis_fw-la eruditum_fw-la pro_fw-la magistro_fw-la teneamus_fw-la &_o quasi_fw-la comparem_fw-la velut_fw-la alterius_fw-la orbis_n apostolicum_fw-la &_o patriarcham_fw-la etc._n etc._n io._n capgravius_n de_fw-fr vitis_n sanctorum_fw-la in_fw-la vitâ_fw-la s._n anselmi_n et_fw-fr guil._n malmesburiens_fw-la de_fw-fr gestis_fw-la pontificum_fw-la anglorum_fw-la p._n 223._o edit_fw-la francof_n 1601._o john_n capgrave_n one_o of_o your_o own_o and_o learned_a for_o those_o time_n and_o long_o before_o he_o william_n of_o malmesburie_n tell_v we_o that_o pope_n urbane_n the_o second_o at_o the_o council_n hold_v at_o bari_n in_o apulia_n account_v my_o worthy_a predecessor_n s_o anselme_n as_o his_o own_o compeer_n and_o say_v he_o be_v as_o the_o apostolic_a and_o patriarch_n of_o the_o other_o world_n so_o he_o then_o term_v this_o island_n now_o the_o britain_n have_v a_o primate_n of_o their_o own_o which_o be_v great_a than_o a_o metropolitan_a yea_o a_o 195._o a_o ibi_fw-la cantuariae_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la prima_fw-la sedes_fw-la archiepiscopi_fw-la habetur_fw-la qui_fw-la est_fw-la totius_fw-la anglia_fw-it primus_fw-la &_o patriarcha_fw-la guil._n malmesburiensis_fw-la in_o prologue_n lib._n 1._o de_fw-la gestis_fw-la pontificum_fw-la anglorum_fw-la p._n 195._o patriarch_n if_o you_o will_v he_o can_v not_o be_v appeal_v from_o to_o rome_n by_o s._n gregorie_n own_o doctrine_n three_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a for_o any_o man_n to_o prove_v there_o be_v any_o church_n then_o in_o the_o world_n which_o be_v not_o under_o some_o either_o patriarch_n or_o metropolitan_a four_o if_o any_o such_o be_v it_o be_v gratis_n dictum_fw-la and_o impossible_a to_o be_v prove_v that_o all_o such_o church_n where_o ever_o seat_v in_o the_o world_n be_v oblige_v to_o depend_v on_o rome_n for_o manifest_v it_o be_v that_o the_o bishop_n which_o be_v ordain_v in_o place_n without_o the_o limit_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n which_o place_n they_o common_o call_v ibid._n call_v praterea_fw-la &_o qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o ba●…barico_n episcopi_fw-la à_fw-la sanctissimo_fw-la throno_fw-la sanctissima_fw-la constantinopolitanae_n ecclesia_fw-la ordinentur_fw-la codex_fw-la canonum_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la universae_fw-la can._n 206._o and_o justellus_n prove_v it_o there_o at_o large_a that_o by_o in_o barbarico_fw-la in_o that_o canon_n be_v mean_v in_o solo_n barbarorum_fw-la annot._fw-la ibid._n barbarous_a be_v all_o to_o be_v ordain_v and_o therefore_o most_o probable_a to_o be_v govern_v by_o the_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n and_o for_o rome_n be_v the_o head_n of_o all_o church_n i_o have_v say_v enough_o to_o that_o in_o diverse_a part_n of_o this_o discourse_n and_o since_o i_o be_o thus_o fall_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o africa_n i_o shall_v borrow_v another_o reason_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o church_n why_o by_o principatus_fw-la s._n augustine_n neither_o do_v nor_o can_v mean_v any_o principality_n of_o the_o church_n or_o bishop_n of_o rome_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ._n for_o as_o the_o act_n of_o counsel_n and_o story_n go_v the_o african_a prelate_n find_v that_o all_o succeed_a pope_n be_v not_o of_o melciades_n his_o temper_n set_v themselves_o to_o assert_v their_o own_o liberty_n and_o hold_v it_o out_o stout_o against_o zozimus_n boniface_n the_o first_o and_o celestine_n the_o first_o who_o be_v successive_o pope_n of_o rome_n at_o last_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o the_o sixth_o council_n of_o carthage_n wherein_o be_v assemble_v two_o hundred_o and_o seventeen_o bishop_n of_o which_o s._n augustine_n himself_o be_v one_o that_o they_o will_v not_o give_v way_n to_o such_o a_o manifest_a encroachment_n upon_o their_o right_n and_o liberty_n and_o thereupon_o give_v present_a notice_n to_o pope_n celestine_n to_o forbear_v send_v his_o officer_n among_o they_o 844._o they_o ne_fw-fr f●…mosum_fw-la typhum_fw-la seculi_fw-la in_o ecclesiam_fw-la christi_fw-la videatur_fw-la inducere_fw-la etc._n etc._n epist_n conc._n afric_n ad_fw-la papam_fw-la coelestinum_n primum_fw-la apud_fw-la nicolin_n to._n 1._o council_n p._n 844._o lest_o he_o shall_v seem_v to_o induce_v the_o swell_a pride_n of_o the_o world_n into_o