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authority_n bishop_n church_n jurisdiction_n 5,357 5 9.3309 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41593 The Catholic representer, or, The papist misrepresented. Second part Gother, John, d. 1704. 1687 (1687) Wing G1327; ESTC R30311 98,893 108

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Alas the Protestant Church in the Time of Luther c. was but in her Nonage and what wonder is it if We standing upon their Shoulders see farther than They Repres Then we are like to have Old Protestancy I see and New Protestancy a Protestancy of Luther and a Protestancy of those that stand upon Luther's Shoulders And who knows but some other Doctors in the next Age may set their Feet upon your Shoulders and see as far beyond you as you think you do beyond Luther As far as I see The Reforming Humovr is not so much out of Fashion but all this is possible And tho' the Word of late be STAND FAST yet this cannot be very effectual when Those that give it never knew what 't was to Stand Fast themselves They that have no other Being but what they gain'd by a Violent Breaking loose and Separation Argue but weakly when they cry to their Followers to HOLD FAST When Doctrine and Example go together it moves powerfully but when the Example is a Confutation of the Doctrine it sinks not beyond the Ear and is no more to the purpose than for a Rebel to Preach up Loyalty and Obedience to his Followers Misrep Whither are you gone Why the Protestancy of the First Reformers and Our Protestancy is much at one only Luther and his Contemporaries were for Reforming the Primitive Fathers taking them for as rank Papists as those that we found in the Time of King Henry 8. And we take them for Good Sound Protestants and regulate our Belief and Doctrine according to what was then generally Taught by them and Practis'd Repres So that Those Fathers it seems whom Luther condemn'd as Superstitious Monkish and Accursed you follow as True-Protestants 'T is well Luther is gone before you if he were to come again he would as certainly throw you into the same List of Superstitious Monkish and Accursed as he did those Fathers whom you follow as Protestants but were rejected by him for Papists Misrep No such matter For tho' we believe as the Fathers believ'd yet we don't dissent in any material Point from Luther we accept of and own his Reformation and fear no Anathema from him tho' he were to have a Second Coming All the business is Luther Peter Martyr c. did not understand the Fathers They mistook their Meaning and thought them in their Writings to teach Popery and therefore declar'd them Accursed But Our Divines the Divines of these Days of clearer Light whose Discerning Faculties are more Pure and more Refin'd than those that went before them have now Examin'd the Works of the Fathers with a stricter Eye and find all that in the Fathers to be Stanch-Protestancy which Luther and his Followers mistook for Popery Repres How so Man What strange Discovery is this Misrep Nothing strange at all 'T is only by the Natural Art of Interpretation 'T is but the Application of three or four Significant Words to the Popish Expressions of the Fathers and forthwith they appear all in as true a Protestant Dress as if the Fathers of the XXXIX Articles had been the Authors Repres What this is some Controversial Legerdermain I le warrant you You 'l favour me with a sight of it who knows what Effect it may have upon me If it do's not make a Convert of me at least I shall undoubtedly admire the Art and Industry of the Operators Misrep You are upon your Rallery However produce you any of what you take for the most Popish Sayings of the Fathers even those very Sayings for which They were condemn'd by Luther for Papists and you shall soon see I le make good what I tell you I don 't like Empty Quacks promise more than I le perform Repres Let 's see then As to Invocation of Saints We quote St. Gregory Nyssen who thus directs himself to S. Theodore Martyr Orat. de S. Theod. Intercede and Pray for our Country to the Lord of the Vniverse Thou hast left this World yet thou knowest our Desires our Wants and the Necessities of Human Life Ask for Peace We quote likewise S. Gregory Nazianzen who thus Addresses himself to S. Cyprian Orat 18. in S. Cyprian Do you full of Compassion look upon us from Heaven direct our Words and Life and help me who have the Charge of this holy Flock The like we read in St. Chrysostom St. Ambrose St. Jerome St. Austin c. And for this very Reason are these Fathers reprov'd by former Protestants as infected with Popish Errors and spotted with Superstitious Doctrines Now how do you make this a Protestant Doctrine Misrep Why look you now with one Word I turn all this Popery into Protestantism These Sayings of the Fathers are not Prayers to the Saints but only so many Rhetorical Flights or Innocent Wishes and what 's become of all the Popery now But proceed have you any more Repres This is as good as the Powder of Pimperlimpimp a German Artist cou'd not make a more Expedite and Undiscernible Conversion But pray let 's have some more of this We quote for the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome some Passages of the First General Councils in which he is stil'd Head and of some Ancient Fathers who acknowledge his Jurisdiction and obey his Orders tho' being Prelates not of the Western but of the Eastern and African Church Misrep These are nothing but Complements Repres Good agen We quote likewise upon the same Subject St. Irenaeus who lib. 3. c. 3. adv Haer. says that All Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of her more Powerful Principality And Others who call it the head-Head-Church adding that to its Bishop is given a Preeminence of Priesthood For which Sayings These Fathers are rejected by the Centurists Misrep Pish The Centurists understood them not These are only Expressions of Civil Respect and no acknowledgments of Authority Primacy or Jurisdiction They are nothing but Respectful Compellations and Words of Courtesie Repres We quote again upon this Subject The many Applications that were wont to be made by the Eastern and African Bishops to the Bishop of Rome wherein they acquainted him with the State of their Church-Affairs Gave an Account of their Faith Inform'd him of Heresies arising Requir'd his Assistance c. Misrep All this was only for the maintaining a Mutual and Brotherly Correspondence It means no more Repres We quote again in behalf of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation the Sayings of the Primitive Fathers affirming That as Christ chang'd Water into Wine at Cana of Galilee so at his Last Supper he chang'd Wine into his Blood. That the Flesh of Christ which we eat for our Salvation ought to be Ador'd and that we Sin in not Adoring it That the Words of Christ cannot deceive us or be untrue but our Sense is very often deceiv'd Since therefore He has said This is my Body let us be Convinc'd and Believe That He that Sanctifies and Changes the