when they proceeded with censure against those who deserved it and are dispraysed when they held in the sword of excommunication and did not cast out Hereticks and prophane Persons Answ Both the Propositions are vitious The Major because the Churches in Asia were Presbyteriall not Congregationall This we proved of Ephesus and we know no reason why the rest should not be of that same condition Secondly Albeit the Churches of Asia at that time in the first preaching of the Gospell and so in the great paucity of Churches should have had no Neighbours with whom commodiously and ordinarily they could keepe society what is that unto the Churches of our dayes who live in the midst of many Sisters The Minor also may not be granted for that which the Text ascribeth to the Angell may not by and by be applyed to every Member of the Church We grant that great reason and many authorities doe prove and evince that the Angells in those places cannot be expounded of the single persons of Bishops but of the whole Body of the Presbytery in the which there was one man chosen by the Suffrages of the rest President for a time but that by the name of Angell should be understood every Member of the Church no reason will carry it Beside there is no consequence from one act of reproofe to the whole right of Ecclesiasticke government even in every case for a common cause and an appearance of errour and many other things will inforce a necessity of subordination Their fourth argument The right of the Church of Thessalonica and Colosse belongs to every Church But the Church of Thessalonica and Colosse had right to exercise every part of Ecclesiasticke discipline within their owne bounds Of the first see 2 Thessalonians 3.6 Withdraw your selves from every Brother which walketh disorderly and ver 24. Note that man and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Of the second see Col. 2.5 Joying and beholding your Order Ans Let the Maior be true of all the Churches of the same Species and Nature with these of Thessalonica and Colosse that is of all Presbyteriall That the Church of Thessalonica was such that it had moe Pastors it is proved from the 1 to the Thessalonians 5.12 Know them which labour among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you that these were Pastors it is the minde of the best Interpreters Also that in Colosse beside others Epaphras and Archippus did labour in the word and doctrine is manifest from chap. 1. ver 7. and chap. 4.17 Further let the Maior be true of all Churches of that same state and condition with those named to wit when it falls out that few or no Neighbour Churches can be had with which such a society may be kept Concerning the Minor suppose that both the right and the exercise of all Ecclesiasticke acts were granted to the foresaid Churches yet the question is not touched except you adde independently and in every cause and case even of aberration and that without all remedy of appeale to any Synode Vpon this hinge the Question depends and of this the argument hath nothing Their fifth argument That which abolishes our liberty purchased by Christs blood and puts upon out necke a yoke equall to the Antichristian tyranny of Bishops is intolerable But the dependence of Congregations upon Presbyteries and Synods doth so Ans The Minor is false for the subordination of Churches imports no slavery taketh away no liberty which God hath granted it is Gods Discipline and Order it is the easie yoake of Christ not to be compared with the cruell bands of Bishops since the one is humane the other divine by the meanes of the one one man commandeth either according to his free will or according to the Canon-Law of the Pope but by the meanes of the other moe men advise in common according to the acts of the Reformed Churches grounded upon the Word of God The judgement seates of Bishops are meerely externall to the Church which they governe But Presbyteries and Synods are Courts internall for the onely members whereof they consist are the Comissioners of the Churches which they govern these Churches they represent the minde and desire of these Churches they doe propose unto these Churches they give account of all their administration they confirme and establish the rights of Congregations they doe not abolish nor labefactate any of them Sixthly These who have power to chuse the Pastor have also the right of the whole Ecclesiastick Discipline But every Parish hath that power Answ The Major is not necessary for there is a great difference betwixt the Election of Ministers and Ministers Ordination Deposition Excommunication and many other acts of Discipline Election is no act of Authority or Jurisdiction The Minor also is not true if you understand it of all the members of the Congregation for it is not needfull that Ministers should be chosen by the expresse voyce of every man muchlesse of every woman of the flocke Yea that Election doth not alwayes belong to the whole flocke except yee take election as many seeme to doe for a consent with reason to the which is opposed not every but a rationall dissent grounded upon cleare equity and justice certainely it is needfull at sometimes to misregard the peoples consent in chusing of a Pastor for why should not a flocke infected with heresie be set under an wholesome and Orthodox Shepheard whether it will or not and be rent from under the Ministrie of an hereticall Shepheard how much soever against its owne minde Their seventh argument That is not of God which maketh Pastors Bishops of other mens Diocesses and layes upon them the care of other Congregations then those to which the holy Ghost hath made them Overseers But the subordination of Parishes to Presbyteries and Synods doth this Answ The Minor is false for neither doth every member of a Presbytery become a Pastor to every Congregation subordinate to that Presbytery neither are Congregations consociated and conjoyned in a Presbytery altogether without the reach of the care and inspection of neighbour Pastors This is cleare not onely by the arguments formerly deduced from Scripture but by the daily practice of the Adversaries for themselves professe their care to oversee and admonish and rebuke and to use many other gracious actions as they have occasion towards neighbouring Churches without any blame of busie Bishops There is almost no difference at all of their acts and ours toward neighbouring Churches so farre as concernes the matter the onely question is concerning the fountaines and grounds of these acts they ascribing their actions onely to charity we not to charity alone but to authority grounded upon the former reasons This difference belongs not to the present plea. Their eight argument Onely Christ hath authority over the Kingdome of God the House of God the holy Jerusalem his owne Spouse his owne
time to Mr Calamy and pretends some reasons to borrow it for awhile but after he had it he carries it away into Yorkshire that so upon occasion of complaints of the breach of the agreement when we would have consulted with that paper it was gone and Mr Nye keeps it to this day and having been moved to restore it His answer is it is at Hull amongst other papers b Apollonius Letter to the 5 Apologists the 3 of May 1644. Hasce quaestiones ad vos reverendi viri transmitto de iisdem sententias vestras quaerens ob mutuam nostram fidem charitatem serio vos oro ut non detrectetis sincere dilucide accurate absque Rhetorici apparatus diverticulis declarare quid vos fratres illi quibuscum societatem vestram Ecclesiasticam colitis de hisce sentiant quoniam meae fidei ab Ecclesiis Christi id commissum est Spero vos ex timore dei charitate erga nos fratres vestros absque ullo pretextu sententias vestras hac de re declaraturos idque quam cito fieri potest urgent enim Ecclesiae nostrae ut opus hoc maturem This zealous adjuration hath not to this day drawn from any of them any declaration c Apol. Nar. p 30. A relation of our judgments in the points of difference about Church-Government we reserve unto the more proper season d Keyes Preface p. 6. Only we crave leave of the reverend Author to declare that we assent not to all expressions scattered up and down or to all and every assertion interwoven in it yea nor to all the grounds or allegations of Scriptures nor should we in all things perhaps have used the same termes to expresse the same materialls by e Apol. Nar. p. 10. A second principle we carried along with us in all our resolution was not to make our present judgement and practice a binding law unto our selves for the future and therefore in a jealousie of our selves wee kept this reseâ—ve to alâ—er and retract though not lightly what ever should be discovered to be taken up out of a misunderstanding of the rule which principle we wish were next to that most supreame enacted as the most sacred Law of all others f Cottons Keyes published by Goodwin and Nye p. 49. In what sence the Church of a particular Congregation is the first subject of the power of the Keyes in the same sence it is Independent and none other we taking the first subject and the Independent subject to be all one Answer to the 32 questions p. 46. For the matter of Independency we confesse the Church is not so Independent but it ought to depend upon â—hrist But for Dependency upon men or other Churches or other Subordination unto them in regard of Church-Government and power we know not of any such appointed by Christ and his Word The Churches were not Dependent and Subordinate to others but all of them absolutely free and Independent Burtons Vindication p. 42. We are not so ashamed of the Title of Independency as utterly to disclame it and that for two reasons first for distinction sake between us and that which you call Presbyteriall Government The second is because this word Independent is to signifie that wee hold all particular Churches of Christ to be of equall authority and none to have Iurisdiction over another but each Church is under Christs Goverments as the sole head King Lord Law-Giver thereof g Apol. Nar. p. 22. We doe professedly judge the Calvinian Reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Popery to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves h Ibid. p. 19. Wee think we give more to the Magistrate then the principles of the Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to yeeld i Ibid. p. 24. Wee doe here publikely professe we believe the truth to lie and consist in a middle way betwixt that which is falsely charged on us Brownisme and that which is the contention of these times the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government Preface to the Keyes p. 5. We are yet neither afraid nor ashamed to make profession that the substance of this briefe extract is that very middle way betwixt that which is called Brownisme and the Presbyteriall Government k Vide supra Chap. 2. B and R 2. l Prynnes Discovery p. 29. Iohn Lilbourn in his Answer to 9 Arguments p. 4. writes the Church of England is a true whoorish mother and you are one of her base begotten and bastardly children I say the Church of England neither is nor never was truly married to Christ in that espousall band which his true Churches are and ought to be but is one of Anti-christs Nationall whâ—orish Churches your Church is false and Anti-christian the Ministers of the Church of England are not true Ministers of Christ but false Ministers of Anti-christ ibid. p. 31. This language and opinion of his concerning our English Church and Ministry is seconded by most Independents in their late Pamphlâ—ts m Mr Robinson hath written a whole Treatise upon this subject n Answer to the 32 questions p. 27. If we were in England we should willingly joyne in some parts of Gods true worship and namely in hearing the Word where it is truly preached yea though wee doe not know them to be true Churches For some worship as prayer and preaching and hearing the Word is not peculiar to Church-Assemblies but may bee performed in other meetings Cottons letter examined p. 43. The second thing which Mr Cotton himselfe hath professed concerning English Preachers is that although the Word yet not the Seales may be received from them because saith he there is no Communion in hearing and the Word is to be preached to all but the Seales c. o Vide supra Chap. 3. G. p Cottons Letter examined p. 37. Cotton here confesseth these two things first if any reproach the Church of Salem for Separation it is a sin meet to be censured secondly the Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causlesse reproachings which I leave to himselfe to reconcile with his former profession against Separation q Vide supra Chap. 4. R r Vide supra Chap. 5. E 1 s Burtons Vindication p. 45. We esteeme the Government of Christs Church so holy as we cannot think them fit to be admitted be they never so good that think so slightly of the way and of them that walk in it that they refuse to agree to walk in this way with the people of God Ibid. p. 62. Doe you not know that no Infants have any title to Baptisme but by vertue of their Parents faith outwardly professed and what outward profession of faith in the Parents that refuse Christ for their only King If therefore the Parents refuse thus to be in visible Covenant can the children be said to be in visible Covenant and so to have a right to baptisme If then the Parents by refusing Christ as their King doe hereby cut
whom they being not satisfied in the answer of an offender may appeale unto and in so doing tell the Church such a small number may be a Church and may have the blessing of his presence to be among them ll Ibid. p. 8 9. When a visible Church is to be erected it is necessary that in respect of quantity it be no more in number in the dayes of the New Testament but so many as may meet in one Congregation mm Ibid. p. 15. The Church is before the Ministers seeing the power of chusing Ministers is given to the Church by Christ nn Ibid. p. 68. The Church that hath no Officers may elect Officers unto themselves therefore it may also ordaine them if it hath power from Christ for the one and that the greater it hath also for the other which is the lesser now Ordination is lesse then Election oo Ibid. p. 42. Vnto the 13 question whether you think it convenient that a company of private and illiterate persons should ordinarily examine elect ordaine and depose their Ministers a part of the answer to this question is if there were none among them who had humane learning we doe not see how this could hinder them of their Liberty to chuse Ministers purchased to them by Christs precious blood for they that are fit matter to be combined into a Church body have learned the Doctrine of the holy Scriptures in the fundamentall points thereof they have learned to know the Lord in their owne hearts therefore they may not bee reproached as illiterate or unworthy to chuse their owne Ministers nay they have the best learning without which all other learning is but madnesse and folly pp Plaine Dealing p. 3. They set a day for the Ordination of their Officers and appoint some of themselves to impose hands upon them where there are Ministers or Elders before they impose their hands upon the new Officers but where there is none there some of their chiefest men two or three of good report amongst them though not of the Ministry doe by appointment of the same Church lay hands upon them Cottons way p. 40 41. Towards the end of the day one of the Elders of the Church if they have any if not one of the graver Brethren of the Church appointed by themselves to order the work of the day standeth up and enquireth in the Church c. he advertiseth him who is chosen what duties the Lord requireth of him in that place towards the Church then with the Presbytery of that Church if they have any or if not with two or three others of the gravest Christians among the Brethren of that Church being deputed by the body he doth in the name of the Lord Jesus ordaine him to that Office with imposition of hands calling upon the Lord and so turning the speech to the person on whom their hands are imposed he as the mouth of the Presbytery expresses their Ordination of him and puts a solemne charge upon him to look well to himselfe and the flock After this the Elders of other Churches present observing the presence of God in the orderly proceeding of the Church to the Officers Election and Ordination one of them in the name of all the rest doth give unto him the right hand of Fellowship in the sight of all the Assembly qq Answer to the 32 questions p. 48. If the Church hath power by election to chuse a Minister and so power of instituting him then of destituting also Instituere destituere ejusdem est potestatis rr Ibid. p. 44. We conceive that every Church properly so called though they bee not above ten persons or the least number that you mention have right and power from Christ to transact all their owne Ecclesiasticall businesse if so be they be able and carry matters justly for the power of the Keyes Matth. 16.19 is committed by Christ unto the Church ss Cottons Catechism p. 10. It is committed to the Presbytery to prepare matters for the Churches hearing tt Answer to the 32 quest p. 60. In this sense matters with us are carried according to the vote of the major part that is with the joynt consent of the whole Church but yet because it is the mind of Christ ww The propositions to which almost all our Elders did agree when they were assembled together the first the Fraternity is the first subject of all Presbyteriall power radicaliter id est causatim per modum collationis non habitualiter non actualiter non formaliter xx Anatom p. 26. I heare of no ruling Elders that ever Mr Simpson had in his Church Anatomist anatomised p. 12. It is true de facto wee had none but were resolved to have them Notwithstanding this answer of Mr Simpsons that Church of Rotterdam to this day hath never had a Presbytery after more then seven yeares delay yy Antap. p. 52. Pastors are necessary Officers in your Churches and yet according to your practises your Churches are many yeares without them zz Keyes p. 10. Authority is a morall power and a superiour Order or State binding or releasing an inferiour in point of subjection Christ hath given no Iurisdiction but to whom he hath given office The Key of power in a large sense or Liberty is in the Church but the Key of authority or rule in a more strict sense is in the Elders of the Church aaa Excommunication is one of the highest acts of Rule and therfore cannot bee performed but by some Rulers now where all the Elders are culpable there be no Rulers left in that Church to censure them as therefore the Presbytery cannot excommunicate the whole Church though apostate for they must tell the Church and joyne with the Church in that censure so neither can the Church excommunicate the whole Presbytery because they have not received from Christ an Office of Rule without their Officers Ib. preface p. 4. He gives unto the Elders or Presbytery a binding power of Rule and Authority peculiar unto them and to the Brethren distinct and apart an interest of power and priviledge to concurre with them and that such affaires should not be transacted but with the joynt agreement of both though out of a different Right so that as a Church of Brethren only could not proceed to any publike censures without they have Elders over them so neither in the Church have the Elders power to censure without the concurrence of the people so as each alone have not power of excommunicating the whole of either though together they have power over any particular person or persons in each bbb Ibid. also Keyes p. 13. Else the Brethren have a power of order and the priviledge to expostulate with their brethren in case of private scandals so in case of publike scandall the whole Church of brethren have power and priviledge to joyne with the Elders in inquiring hearing judging of publike scandals so as to bind notorius offenders and impenitents under censure and
of the Churches infancy they were Idolatry false doctrine open profanenesse were then most abominable and more terribly punished then now by the totall destruction of whole Cities and Countries wherein they were entertained also the duty of mutuall inspection and admonition the contempt whereof is made the grand cause of separation was most clearly enjoyned in the Old Testament What here is replyed that all separation from the Iewish Church was simply impossible because then there was no other Church in the whole earth to goe to We answer that the Replyers themselves will say that a separation must be where there is just cause and where a person cannot abide without pollution and sin although there be no other Church for him to go to for they make it better for men to live alone separate from all then to abide in any Church where they cannot live without the participation of their neighbours sinnes We answer further That it was easie for the godly under the Law to have joyned together in the service of God and to have excluded the wicked thence and whereas it is said that this could not bee done because the Censure of Excommunication was not then in being We answer the Gospel makes it cleare That casting out of the Synagogue which was reall Excommunication was frequent in the Old Testament as also the keeping off from the service with a great deale of circumspection all who were unfit by any legall pollution much more by any known morall uncleannesse Kings themselves when polluted were removed from the Altar and put out of the Sanctuary Again I reason thus That which moved not Christ and his Apostles to separate from the Church of their time is no cause to us of separation but want of satisfaction by convincing signes of the true grace of every member of the Church was to them no cause of separation from the Churches of their times Ergo. The major is cleare except we desire a better pattern for our practices then Christ and his Apostles what ever carrieth us beyond their line must be high presumption and deep hypocrisie The minor is cleare by many Scriptures the Scribes and Pharisees were a generation of vipers Ierusalem worse then Sodom and Gomorrah Corasin and Bethsaida was worse then Tyrus and Sidon and to be cast lower in Hell then these yet the Lord did not give over to preach to pray to go to the Temple with them Iudas when a declared Traytor did not scarre him nor any of his company from the Sacrament After he went from the Table when his wickednesse was revealed that a Devill was in him yet none of the Apostles offered to cast themselves out of the body because this wicked member was not cut off Many members of the Apostolick Churches were so farre from convincing signes of true grace that the works of the flesh were most evident in their life In the Corinthians fundamentall errours open Idolaty grievous scandall bitter contentions profanation of the Lords Table In the Galatians such errours as destroyed grace and made Christ of none effect In the Church of Ephesus of Laodicea and the other golden Candlesticks divers members were so evidently faulty that the Candlestick is threatned to be removed yet from none of these Churches did any of the Apostles ever separate nor gave they the least warrant to any of their Disciples to make a separation from any of them A third Argument The want of that which never was to bee found in any Church is no just cause of separation But satisfaction by convincing Arguments of the true grace of every member was never to be found in any Church The major is unquestionable for what is not cannot have any operation non entis nulla sunt accidentia The minor is demonstrable from the nature of a visible Church it is such a body whose members are never all gracious if we believe Scripture It is not like the Church invisible the Church of the Elect. It is an heterogeneous body the parts of it are very dissimilar some chaffe some corne some wheat some tares a net of fishes good and bad a house wherein are vessels of honour and dishonour a fold of sheep and goats a tree of green and withered branches a table of guests some with some without a wedding garment in a word every visible Church is a society wherein many are called few chosen except therefore we will alter the nature of all visible Churches whereof Scripture speaks we must grant that in every Church there are some members which have no true grace and if so how can they give convincing and satisfactory signes of that which is not to be found Hypocrites may make a shew without of that which is not within but shall we lay an obligation upon every hypocriticall member of a Church to be so eminently skilfull in the art of counterfeiting as to produce in the midst of his gracelesnesse so cleare so evident and satisfactory signes of his true grace as may convince the hearts of every one of the Church that the thing is within the mans breast which certainly is not there The fourth Argument The want of that which cannot reasonably be supposed of every member of a Congregation is no just cause of separation from any Church but satisfaction c. Ergo. The major is cleare for if the want of such satisfaction be a just cause of separation from the Church Then the presence of such a satisfaction is very requisite to be in every member as a necessary meane to keep it in union with that Church The minor that such a satisfaction may not justly be supposed in every member of a Congregation for this would import these foure things all which are unreasonable First that every member of a Congregation is to have power to try all its fellow-members to let them in or hold them out according as in this triall he is satisfied This is a large limb of the Brownistick Anarchy putting the key of Authority and Iurisdiction into the hand of every Church-member if all the Independents will defend this let them speak it out plainly Secondly it requires a great deale of more ability in every member of every Church then can be found in any mortall man for not to speak of the impossibility of a grounded and certaine perswasion of true grace in the heart of an Hypocrite who hath no grace at all how is it possible to attaine unto any grounded certainty of true grace in the heart of any other man for the hid man of the heart and the new name are not certainly known to any but to such as have them The grounds of a mans own certain perswasion the act of his faith either direct or reflex the witnesse of his conscience or the seale of the spirit cannot go without his own breast all the demonstrations which can be made to another are so oft found false that in understanding men they
yeelded yet how will they prove that the Scribes and Pharisees were of any other Tribe then of Levi CHAP. IX Whether the power of Ecclesiastick Iurisdiction belongs to the People or to the Presbyterie THe next Question concernes the power of Ecclesiastick Jurisdiction to whom it may be due by Ecclesiastick Jurisdiction is understood the admission of Members into a Church their casting out againe by Excomunication their reconciliation after repentance the Ordination of Officers their deposition from their charge the Determining of Questions the deciding of Controversies and such other acts of Ecclesiastick authority Till of late the state of the Question here was very cleare and plaine the Reformed Churches doe put both the power and the exercise of Jurisdiction into the hand of the Presbytery that is the company of Elders and Colledge of Church Governours The Brownists and after them the Independents did ascribe all these acts to the Church as well without as with a Presbytery but of late Master Cotton in his Booke of the Keyes and his Brethren in their Synodick meetings of New-England have so subtilized and as to me it seemes involved the Question with a multitude of new distinctions that it is very hard to apprehend with any certaintie and clearenesse their meaning and more hard to reconcile any one with himselfe much lesse one with another They would seeme to differ much from the Brownists they stand not to put them in the Category of Morellius the first Patron of Democracie and popular government in the Church they professe a midway of government well ballanced with a prudent mixture of the Officers power with the peoples giving a part to both and all to neither They bring a multitude of distinctions rather to eschew the dint of our former arguments in the darkenesse of these Thickets then to give any light to this very great Question They insist most on two distinctions whereby they thinke to answer all we bring against them First they distinguish betwixt a Church Organized or Presbyterated as they speake and a Church inorganized and unpresbyterated the one is a body Heterogeneous a covenanted people with their Officers framed in a Presbitery the other a body Homogeneous a people in a Church Covenant without Officers at least without a Presbytery They would seeme to plead or else the distinction is for no purpose for the power onely of an Organized and a Presbyterated Church If they would stand to this in earnest and firmely we should be glad for so they should openly desert not onely the whole race of the Brownists but all their owne former Writings practises and enervate the best of these very arguments they still adhere unto for if ye will consider what is written by Mr. Cotton either in his Catechisme or way or answer to the thirty two Questions or the Arguments that still he insists upon in the Keyes or their generall practise in Holland and New-England to this day you will see that they maintaine the Jurisdiction of a Church as well unpresbyterated without a Presbytery without Officers as of a Church Presbiterated for the power of Ordination of Officers and of their deposition the power of admitting and casting out of Members which are the highest acts of Jurisdiction they ascribe expressely to every Church whether it have or want Officers as its proper and undeniable priviledge Their other new distinction wherein openly they applaud so much one another as it were contending who should have the glory of its invention is of a double power one of Authority and another of Liberty ascribing unto a Presbyterated Church the whole power of Jurisdiction and every part of it both to the Officers of their Presbytery and to the people in their fraternity or brotherhood but so that the interest of the Officers in every act is a power of authority which makes that their action only is valid and binding but the interest of the people is a power of liberty to concurre in these acts of Jurisdiction by an obedientiall yet a necessary and authoritative concurrence This new distinction will not serve their turne for first it s not applicable to the chiefe acts of Jurisdiction in question their Ordination of Officers their admission of Members are done ordinarily by their people alone without the concurrence of any Officers who then are not in being Secondly their arguments for the peoples interest in Excommunication Absolution and other acts of Jurisdiction inferre either nothing at all or much more then that which they call a power of Liberty or of an authoritative concurrence Thirdly this distinction involves the Authors in new unextricable difficulties it makes the Keyes Sword of Christ altogether inserviceable in common and ordinary cases wherein they have most neede and occasion to be set on worke Not onely according to their former principles they make every Congregation uncensurable for any possible crime But by this new Doctrine they confesse that every Presbytery in a Congregation becomes uncensurable and that every people of a Congregation becometh uncapable of any censure Yea farther if the most part of the Presbytery suppose two ruling Elders joyne together in the greatest heresies and crimes the whole people with the rest of the Presbitery suppose the Pastor cannot censure these two Elders also if the greatest part of the people should joyne in the greatest wickednesse yet the whole Presbytery with the rest of the people that remaine sincere and gracious cannot censure the wicked In all these and divers such ordinary cases they have no remedy but Separation and alwayes Separation upon Separation till their Church be dissolved into so small portions that it cannot by more Separations be farther divided But let us consider the Arguments upon both sides First we reason thus The people are not the Governors of the Church But the acts of Ecclesiastick Jurisdiction belong to the Governors of the Church Ergo The acts of Ecclesiastick Jurisdiction belong not to the people The Minor is cleare from the nature of the very termes for Jurisdiction is either all one with Government or a chiefe part of it now Government is essentially relative to Governors The Major is proved by many Scriptures which make the people so farre from being Governors that they are obliged to be subject and obedient to their Officers as to them by whom God will have them governed Heb. 13.17 Obey them that have the rule over you for they watch for your soules as they who must give an account 1 Tim. 5.17 Let the Elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honour 1 Thes 5.12 Know them which are over you in the Lord and esteeme them very highly in love for their workes sake God hath made them Pastors and the people their flocke them Builders the people the stones laid by them in the building them Fathers the people children begotten by their Ministry them Stewards the people domesticks under their conduct Secondly whosoever
fellowshippe especially with the Saints is a preservative against the beginnings of evill and a retractive therefrom when begunne Every gratious neighbour is a Counsellour and Pedagogue the greater the incorporation is of such the better is every Member directed and the more strengthened Hence the goodnesse of God hath ordained not onely the planting of particular men into a small body of one single Congregation but for the greater security both of Persons and Congregations the Lord hath increased that Communion of Churches by binding neighbour Congregations in a larger and stronger Body of a Presbytery or Classis yea a number of Presbyteryes by the same hand of God are combined in a Synode neither this onely but for the strengthening of every stone and of the whole building the Lord hath appointed the largest societies that are possible the very Church universall and the representation thereof an Oecumenick Assembly This congregative way is divine the dissolution of humane societies especially of Ecclesiasticke Assemblyes must be from another Spirit The first we know to have opposed the holy Societyes we speake of were Anabaptists who liking a Catholicke anarchy in all things and pressing an universall liberty did strive to cut in peeces all the bands as of Politicke and Oeconomick union whereby Kingdomes and States Cities and Familyes did stand so also of the Ecclesiasticke conjunction making every person at last fully free from all servitude and simply independent or uncontrolable in any of his owne opinions or desires by any mortall man Their first follower among the reformed was one John Moreau a Parisian who in the French Churches did vent the Independency of Congregations from Synods and the popular government of these Independent Congregations But his scismatick pamphlet came no sooner abroad then the French Divines did most unanimously trample upon it In their generall Assembly at Rochell most Reverend Beza Moderator for the time and in their next Assembly Learned Sadeell with others did so fully confute these Anabaptistick follies that thereafter in France this evill Spirit did never so much as whisper only in Holland in the Arminian times it began to speake by the tongue of Grotius and others of his fellowes who being conscious to themselves of Tenets whereunto they despared the assent of any Synode yea fearing to be prejudged in the propagation of their errours by a crosse Sentence of a Nationall Assembly did set themselves to call in question and at last to deny the Authority and Jurisdiction of all Church meetings But when the goodnesse of God in that happy Synode of Dort did crush the other errours of that Party this their fansie did evanish and since in these bounds hath beene buried in Oblivion By what meanes this Anabaptistick roote which neither France nor Holland could beare when Grotius and Morellius did assay to plant it doth thrive so well in England after Browne and Barrow with their followers did become its dressers I have declared at length before However the Novelty of the Tenet the Infamie of its Authours the evill successe it hath had whereever yet it hath set up the head doth burden it with so just contempt that all further audience might be denyed thereto yet in this impudent and malapertage where the greatest absurdityes will importunately ingyre themselves and require beleefe as unanswerable and most covincing truths unlesse in a full hearing their naughtinesse be demonstrate we are content without all prejudices to reason the matter it selfe from the ground and to require no man to hate this errour for its Authours or any externall consideration unlesse it be cleerely showne to be contrary to the revealed will of God The state of the Question hath no perplexitie if its termes were cleared The Brownists affirme that every Parish Church that every single Congregation is Independent from any Presbytery any Synod any Assembly This we deny affirming the true dependence and subordination of Parochiall Congregations to Presbyteries and of these to Synods to which we ascribe power authority and Jurisdisdiction Before wee fall to reasoning let us understand the words which in this debate doe frequently occurre First what is a Parochiall Church or single Congregation Secondly What is its independence Thirdly What is a Presbytery and a Presbyteriall Church Fourthly What is a Synod Fifthly What is Authoritie and Jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall We intend no definitions but such popular descriptions as may make cleare what the parties use to understand by these words A particular Church a Parish or Congregation in this Question is taken for a company of faithfull people every one whereof in the face of the whole Congregation hath given so cleare tokens of their true grace and regeneration as hath satisfied the minde of all A company I say incorporate by a particular Covenant and Oath to exercise all the parts of Christian Religion in one place under one Pastor Our Opposits affirme that in one Church there must be but one Pastor assisted indeede with a Doctor and three or foure Elders yet no more Pastors but one They will admit into a Church no more people then commodiously and at their ease may convene in one house how few they be they care not ten families or forty persons to them are a faire Church you have heard that some of their Churches have beene within the number of foure persons Independencie is the full liberty of such a Church to discharge all the parts of Religion Doctrine Sacraments Discipline and all within it selfe without all dependence all subordination to any other on earth more or fewer so that the smallest Congregation suppose of three persons though it fall into the grossest heresies may not be controlled by any Orthodoxe Synod were it Oecumenicke of all the Churches on earth A Presbytery as it is called in Scotland or a Classis as in Holland or a Collogue as in France is an ordinary meeting of the Pastors of the Churches neerly neighbouring of the ruling Elders deputed therefrom for the exercise chiefely of discipline so farre as concernes these neighbouring Churches in common A Presbyteriall Church is a company of Professors governed by one Prysbytery who for the exercise of Religion meete in diverse places or who have moe Pastors then one A Synod is a convention of Pastors and Elders sent and deputed from diverse Presbyteries meeting either ordinarily or upon occasion for the affaires that are common to those that sent them Ecclesiasticke Jurisdiction is a right and power not onely by advice to counsell and direct but by authority given of God to injoyne and to performe according to the rule of Scriptures these things which concern the Ordination of Ministers the deciding of Ecclesiasticall Causes the determination of Doctrines the inflicting of Censures c. The signification of these words being presupposed the state of the Question or minde of the parties can not be obscure The first Argumen for the truth I cast into this Forme Every Independent
of the Doctrine to try and examine false Teachers lieth principally on preachers This is alike true of the Church of Antioch The hand of the Lord was in the City and a great number beleeved Acts 11.21 Thereafter by Barnabas labour there was much people added v. 24. yea by the joyned paines of Barnabas and Paul for a yeare together there was such a multitude converted that the name of Christians was first imposed upon them Here as in the Metropolitane City not onely of Syria but all Asia beside Barnabas Paul and other Prophets v. 27. Peter also and many other Doctors had their residence Gal. 2.11 It were too long to speake of the rest of the Apostolicke Churches whose condition was not unlike the former Our third Argument No Synod hath authority to impose Decrees upon an Independent Church But some Synods have authority to impose Decrees upon particular Churches whether Presbyteriall or Congregationall Ergo Particular Churches whether Presbyteriall or Congregationall are not Independent The Maior is not controverted our adverse party acknowledgeth the lawfull use and manifold fruits of Synods They grant it is the duty of every good man and much more of every Church and most of all of a Synod consisting of the Messengers of many Churches to admonish counsell perswade and request particular Curches to doe their duty But that any company on earth even an Oecumenicke Synod should presume to injoyne with authority the smallest Congregation to leave the grossest heresies under the paine of any censure they count it absurd Upon this ground that every Congregation how small soever how corrupt soever is an Independent body and not subordinate to any society on earth how great how pure how holy soever The Minor thus is proved The Synod of Jerusalem imposed with Authority her Decrees upon the Church of Antioch Ergo Some Synod and if you please to make it universall every lawfull Synod may impose its Decrees upon particular Churches The Antecedent is to be seene Acte 15.20 It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden on you then these things necessary The Consequence is good for Antioch was among the chiefe of the Apostolicke Churches in it Barnabas Paul and other Prophets inspired of God were Preachers If this Church was subject to the Authority of Synods what Church may plead a freedome from the like subjection Many things are here replied as usually it hapneth when no solid answer can be brought The chiefe heads of the Reply are three First that the meeting at Jerusalem was no Synod Secondly What ever it was that it did injoyne nothing authoritatively to any other Churches Thirdly That other Synods may not pretend to the priviledges of that meeting since its Decrees were indited by the Holy Ghost and stand now in the holy Canon as a part of Scripture To the first we say that the meeting at Jerusalem is either a true Synod or else there is no paterne in all Scripture for Synods even for counsell or advice or any other use But this were inconvenient for they acknowledge that Synods are lawfull meanes for many gracious ends in the Church Now to affirme that any Ecclesiasticke meeting is lawfull necessary or convenient for gracious ends whereof no patterne no example can be found in Scripture were dangerous But beside this argument towards our adverse party we reason from the nature of the thing it selfe A meeting consisting of the Deputies of many Presbyteriall Churches is a true Synod but the convention at Jerusalem Acts 15. was such a meeting The Maior is the essence of a Synod there are many accidentall differences of Synods for according to the quantity and number of the Churches who send their Commissioners the Synod is smaller or greater is Provinciall Nationall or Oecumenicke according to occasion the Churches sending Commissioners are sometime moe sometime fewer sometime neerer sometime further off also according to the commodity of place and necessity of affaires they come from one Church moe and from others fewer all these are but accidentalls which change not the nature of the thing Unto the essence of a Synod no more useth to be required then a meeting of Commissioners from moe Presbyteriall Churches The Minor is cleare That the Church of Antioch and Jerusalem were moe Churches no man doubts that both were Presbyteriall it was proved before that from both these Presbyteriall Churches Commissioners did sit at that meeting it is apparent from that oft cited Acts 15. Yea that from the other Churches of Syria and Cilicia besides Antioch Commissioners did come to Jerusalem may appeare by conference of the 2. vers of the 15. chap. with vers 23. for that with Paul and Barnabas Commissioners for the time from the Antiochians others also did come it is certaine that those others at least some of them were Deputed from the Churches of Syria and Cilicia it is like because the Synodick Epistle is directed expresly no lesse to those than to this of Antioch also those no lesse than this are said to be troubled with the Questions which occasioned that meeting But to passe this consideration it is cleare that in the Convention at Jerusalem were present not onely the Commissioners of some few Presbyteriall Churches but also they whom God had made constant Commissioners to all the Churches of the world to wit the Apostles their presence made all the Churches legally subject to the Decrees of that Synod though they had no other but their grand and constant Commissioners to Voyce for them in that meeting The second Answer is clearely refuted from the 28. vers where the Decrees are not proposed by way of meere advice but are injoyned and imposed as necessary burdens with Authority not onely of the Synod but of the holy Ghost Concerning the third we say that the meerely Divine and more than Ecclesiastick Authority of these Decrees in their first Formation is not made good from this that now they stand in holy Scripture and are become a part of the Bible for a world of Acts meerely indifferent and which without doubt in their Originall had no more then Ecclesiasticke Authority are Registred in Scripture Was the Presbytery of Lystraes laying on of hands on Timothy any other then an act of Ecclesiastick Ordination The Decree of the Church of Corinth for the incestuous mans Excommunication or relaxation after Repentance was it any more then an act of Jurisdiction meerely Ecclesiasticke Pauls circumcision of Timothy his Uow at Cenchrea the cutting off his haire at Jerusalem were free and indifferent actions The nature of these things and many moe of that kinde is not changed by their Registring in the Booke of God Neither also is the meerly Divine Authority of the Decrees at Jerusalem proved by this that in their first framing they were grounded on cleare Scripture and after proclamed in the name of the holy Ghost for that is the condition of the
Kingdom besides in all the Armies And they were all resolved to have the Liberty of their Consciences or else they would make use of their Swords which they have already in their hands Ibid. p. 68. I know not any Independent in England except one man and his wife that do not as maliciously and implacably hate the Presbyterians as the mortallest enemy they have in the world CHAP. VI. An Enumeration of the common Tenets of the Independents IT is not easie to set down with assurance the Independents positions both because they have to this day declined to declare positively their minds as also because of their principle of mutability whereby they professe their readinesse to change any of their present Tenets How unwilling they are to declare their mind may appeare by their obstinate silence and refusing to answer any of these Books that put them most to it also by hiding of their opinions from their brethren who most earnestly have prest their Declaration These divers yeares the Ministers of London have been dealing with them for satisfaction herein and once by importunity obtained a promise under their hand of a full and free Declaration but these foure yeares they have eluded that promise a Mr. Apollonius in name of all the Churches of Zealand with all earnestnesse did intreat this duty of them b but all in vaine When upon any occasion they have been moved to make any kind of Narration of their way it was ever with an expresse proviso of their resolution to keep up as yet from the World their positive Tenets so they conclude their Apologetick c so they begin their Keyes d And now when the indignation both of the Assembly and Parliament and of many more was likely to break out upon them for this that after so long time no plaine dealing hath been seen in them at last they have engaged themselves to declare their minds and yet since that their publike engagement there are six Months past and the Worlds expectation of understanding at last their mind is still suspended And though that their Declaration should come out to morrow yet with what assurance can we take any thing therein for their constant and settled Tenet so long as they professe it to be one of their cheife principles to be so loose and irresolute in any thing they maintaine for the time that they are ready to leave it and upon occasion to embrace the contrary e So long as this skeptick irresolution is avowed there is no hope there is no possibility of any fixed constancy These things considered no man is able to set down their full mind nor any one of their positions whereto any dare assure they will firmely stand only the chiefe of their singularities which they have been pleased to let come abroad and have not to our knowledge as yet revoked we shall set down as they come to our thoughts It hath been hitherto their earnest desire to decline the infamy of Brownisme and it was the charity of their Brethren to distinguish them from that Sect under the new name of Independents importing their chiefe difference from us to stand not in the point of separation which is our proper quarrell with the Brownists but alone in the point of Church-Government which against all the Reformed Churches they maâ—ntaine to be Independent that is not subject to the Authority and Jurisdiction of any Superiour Synod This was thought to be their proper distinctive and characteristicall Tenet till of late we finde them passionately reject the name of Independents and tell us that the dependency or independency of their Congregations will bee found one of their least differences and smallest controversies In this our long mistake we are content to be rectified albeit our charity should not be reproved who being ignorant of their willingnesse to differ from us in any thing higher or deeper then the Dependency of Congregations upon the Authority of Superiour Assemblies did put upon them no other name then that which implyed this difference alone It seemes that this Title is not only the most reasonable but the most innocent and inoffensive note of distinction which themselves could have chosen The terme not being invented by any of their ill-willers but by their own cheife Leaders f who did think that word most proper to notifie their Tenet of Government and since some name must be given to every eminently differing party it seemes none lesse irritative could bee fallen upon then that which most properly did signifie the chiefe matter in Controversie But now finding they avow their chiefe differences to lie elsewhere for my part I could yeeld to them to have the name of Independents buried did I not feare it behoved to be changed with another Title which would much more displease For since they are gone beyond the question of Independent Government and now doe question the constitution of our Churches so farre as puts them on a necessity of Separation and in this doe place the chiefe of their Controversies with us If a Sect may be denominated either from the Author or principall matter as they make no bones to Print us Calvinians g and Presbyterians h I cannot conceive why they ought not to take it in good part if when the name of Independents is laid by they have in place of it the Title of Brownists and Separatists fastned upon them Of their owne accord they take upon them openly the halfe of the thing we alledge professing themselves to lie halfeway off us towards Brownisme i avowing the truth to consist in this their middle way But whosoever considers better of the matter will find that however in some things they incline to a middle way yet in the chiefe and most they come up close to the outmost line of Brownisme and in many things doe expatiate so much beyond it that in place of the Semi-Separation they mention they may be justly argued to have drawn upon themselves the blot of Seâ—qui-Separation and more also how true this is it will appeare to any who will be pleased to make a paralell of the forementioned Tenets of the Brownists with these of the Independents which here are subjoyned First the worst and uttermost Tenet of the Brownists for which they cook to themselves and had bestowed upon them by others the stile of Separatists was their doctrine and practise accordingly to Separate from the Churches of England In this the Independents goe beyond them For beside that the practice of both is the same both actually Separating from all the Congregations of England the grounds of the Brownists Separation were a great deale more reasonable then that of the Independents albeit neither of them be good and sufficient For the Brownists did build their Separation on the Tyranny of Bishops on the Superstition of the Ceremonies and Service-Book on the grosse avowed and neglected profanenesse of the most in every Congregation if
particular Service of the Ministery Acts. 13.1 There was in the Church certaine Prophets and Teachers and the Holy Ghost sayd Separate me Barnabas and Saul to the worke whereunto I have called them and when they had fasted and prayed and layd their hands on them they sent them away Fourthly None of the people ordinarily have the gifts requisite for this action as skill to examine the Minister in all things he must be tried in a gift of publicke prayer a faculty to instruct and exhort the Pastour and people to mutuall duties Seventhly That power belongeth not to the people which disableth them both in their Christian and Civill duties But the power of Ecclesiastick Jurisdiction doth so The Major is grounded on the nature of all power and all gifts which God doth give for all are for edification and none for the hurt of these to whom they are given The Minor may be demonstrated by this That it layes a necessity upon all the people to attend in the Sabbath day upon the exercise of discipline which by the very length will make the Sabbath-Service insupportably burdensome and also will fill the mindes of the people with these purposes which naturally occurre in the agitation of Ecclesiasticke causes and cannot but cast out of common weake mindes much of the fruite of the preceding worship Further the peoples necessary attendance on all Ecclesiasticke causes will make the processe in the most causes so prolix as cannot but robbe the people of that time which they ought to imploy in their secular callings for getting of bread For every one of the people being a Judge must be so satisfyed in every circumstance of every action as to give their Suffrage upon certaine knowledge and with a good conscience now before this can be done in a few causes of the smallest and best ordered Congregations much time will be spent as the Church of Arneim found it in one cause alone though but a light one and betwixt two onely even of their cheife and best Members Eighthly That power is not to be given to the people which brings in the popular government of Morellius into the Church but the power in question doth so The Major is the common assertion of all the Brethren that they are farre from democracy and further from Morellius anarchy and that they are ready to forsake their Tenet if it can be demonstrated to import any such thing The Minor thus we prove That which puts the highest acts of Government in the hands of the multitude brings in the popular government for in the greatest democracies that are or ever have beene there were divers acts of great power in the hand of sundry Magistrates but the highest acts of power being in the hands of the people alone such as the making of Lawes the creation of Magistrates the censure of the greatest Offendors these were the sure signes of Supremacy that gave the denomination to the government Now we assure that the Tenet in hand puts the highest acts of Ecclesiastick Authority in the hands of the people For the Ordination and Deposition of Officers the binding and loosing of Offendours are incomparably the highest acts of Ecclesiasticke Jurisdiction These they put in the hand of the people That they doe conjoyne with the people the Officers to expound the Law and declare what is right and to give out the sentence makes nothing against the peoples Supremacy for in Rome and Athens at their most democraticke times and this day in the States of Holland in all the Provinces and every City where the people are undoubted Soveraignes they have their Magistrates and Officers in all their proceedings to goe before them to declare the case to take the Suffrages and to pronounce the Sentence As for them who of late have begun to put the whole Authority in the Officers alone and to give the people onely a liberty of consenting to what the Officers doe decree of their owne Authority wee say they are but few that doe so and these contradictory to themselves Also these same men give absolute Authority to the people in divers cases further that liberty of consent they come to call an authoritative concurrence Lastly the most of the arguments even of these men doe conclude not onely a liberty to consent and to concurre but an authoritative agency in the highest acts of Jurisdiction Ninthly They who have the power of Jurisdiction have also the power of preaching the word and celebrating the Sacraments unlesse God in his word have given them a particular and expresse exemption from that imployment But none of the people have power to preach the word and celebrate the Sacraments Ergo. The Major is built on these Scriptures which conjoyne the administration of the Word Sacrament and Discipline in one and the same termes and upon these Scriptures which lay a part of these administrations upon some men with an expresse exception of another part of them Math. 16.19 under the name of the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven is comprehended the whole Ecclesiasticke power of the Word Sacraments and Discipline what there is promised Joh. 20. it is performed in these termes as the Father hath sent me so I send you But 1 Tim. 5.17 where this power is separated and distinguished the one part of Jurisdiction is ascribed to the ruling Elders with an expresse intimation of their freedome from preaching the Word and by consequence from celebration of the Sacraments The Minor was that none of the people have power of the word and Sacraments For the power of the Sacraments it is confessed not to belong to the people That the power of preaching the Word belongeth no more to them was proved in the former Chapter None of our Brethren doe ascribe the power of preaching to all the People but onely to a few of them who are able to prophesie so the power of Jurisdiction according to the ground in hand could be ascribed to none of the people but these few Prophets alone For the other side the Separatists and Master Parker in this point as farre wrong as the other bring many arguments but I will meddle onely with these which Master Cotton doth borrow from them in his way of the Churches and answer to the 32. Questions First from Math. 16.19 he reasons thus The Power of the Keys is given unto Peter upon the confession of his faith Ergo every Beleever hath the Power of the Keys Answer I deny the consequence for however upon the occasion of his confession the Keys are promised to him yet they are not promised to him because of his confessing nor under the relation of a beleever for if so then all and onely beleevers should have the full Power of the Keys but our Brethren will be loth to avow this direct Assertion of Smith the Sebaptist for they doe not ascribe the Power of the Sacraments to any beleever out of Office nor any power of
Thus farre the most of their reasons doe carry if they have any force at all Secondly the Antecedent may well be denyed all that the Apostle speaks to the Collossians indefinitely must not be expounded of every one of the people This precept of speaking to Archippus could not be better performed then by the Presbytery whereof Archippus was a Member Thirdly the consequence is invalid They might admonish therefore excommunicate Every admonition is not in order to censure it is a morall duty incumbent to every one to admonish lovingly and zealously his Brother when there is cause it is a sinne and disobedience to God if we let sinne lye upon any whom we by our counsell and admonition can helpe but to conclude that we have power to Excommunicate every man whom in duty wee ought to admonish is an absurdity which none of the Separatists will well digest Fifthly From Revel 2.14.20 The whole Churches of Pergamus and Tâ—yatira are rebuked for suffering wicked Hereticks to live among them uncensured Ergo it was the duty of all the Church to censure them Answer First the conclusion is for a power to the people to censure which our Brethren now deny Secondly The Antecedent may be denied for the fault of that impious Toleration is not laid upon the whole Church but expresly upon the Angell Thirdly the consequence is not good The whole Church might be reproved for a neglect of their duty in not inciting and incouraging their Officers to censure these Hereticks but a reproofe for this neglect inferreth not that it was the peoples duty to execute these censures Thus much our Brethren will not avow Sixthly They reason from Revel 4.4 The foure and twenty Elders sate on Thrones in white Robes with Crownes on their heads Ergo Every one of the Church hath a power of judging as Kings with Crownes sitting on their Thrones Answer First the conclusion ever inferres the full Tenet of the Separatists Secondly the consequence is very weake except many things be supposed which will not be granted without strong proofes first that this Type is argumentative for the matter in hand secondly that this place is relative to the Church on earth rather then to that in heaven thirdly that these Elders doe typifie the people rather then the Officers fourthly that the Thrones and Crownes import a Kingly Office in every Christian to be exercised in Church censures upon their brethren more then the white robes doe inferre the Priestly Office of every Christian to be exercised in Preaching the Word and celebrating the Sacraments Seventhly They reason from Galatian 5.1.13 the Galatians were called unto Liberty whereto they behoved to stand fast as to a priviledge purchased by Christ his blood Ergo Every one of them had a power to cut off their Officers Answer This is the Scripture whereupon our Brethren have lately fallen and make more of it then of any other I confesse their reasoning from it seemes to me the most unreasonable throwing of the holy Scripture that I have readily seene in any Disputant The whole scope of the place carrying evidentty a liberty from the burthen and servitude of the Law Their fathering upon it a new and unheard of sense to wit a priviledge of Church censures without any authority or proper power therein is very strange they cannot produce any Scripture where the word Liberty hath any such sense and though they could yet to give the word that sense in this place where so clearely it is referred to a quite diverse matter it seemeth extremely unreasonable Eightly Thus they reason The whole Congregation of Israel had power to punish Malefactors as in the case of Gibea in the message of Israel to the two Tribes halfe also the people had power to rescue from the hands of the Magistrates as in the case of Jonathan from Saul Answer The consequence is null for the practise of the Israelites in their civill state is no sufficient rule for the proceedings of the Church of the New Testament Our Brethren would beware of such Arguments least by them they entertaine the jealousie which some professe they have of their way fearing it be builded upon such principles as will set up the common people not onely above their Officers in the Church but also above their Magistrate in the State That it draw in a popular government and Ochlocracie both in Church and State alike Ninthly They thus reason Who ever doe elect the Officers they have power to ordaine them and upon just cause to depose and excommunicate them But the people do elect their Officers Ergo. Answer The major is denied for first election is no act of power suppose it to be a priviledge yet there is no Jurisdiction in it at all but Ordination is an act of Jurisdiction it is an authoritative mission and putting of a man into a spirituall Office The people though they have the right and possession by Scripturall practise of the one yet they never had either the right or the possession of the other Secondly suppose the Maxime were true whereof yet I much doubt unlesse it be well limited Ejus est destituere cuius instituere that they who give authority have power to take it backe againe yet we deny that the people who elect give any authority or office at all their election is at most but an Antecedent Sine quo non it is the Presbytery onely who by their Ordination doe conferre the Office upon the elect person Finally They argue No act of Jurisdiction is vâ—lid without the peoples consent Ergo to every act of Jurisdiction the peoples presence and concurrence is necessary Answer The antecedent in many cases is false a gracious Orthodoxe Minister may be ordained a Pastor to a Hereticall people against their consent an Hereticall Pastor who hath seduced all his flocke may be removed from them against their passionate desires to keepe him but the Consequent is more vitious where ever consent is requisite their presence much lesse authoritative concurrence is not necessary all the souldiers are not present at the Counsell of War and yet the decrees of that Counsell of War can not be executed without the consent and action of the Souldiers every member of the Church of Antioch was not present at the Synod of Jerusalem diverse members of the Independent Congregations are absent from many Church determinations to the which upon their first knowledge they doe agree CHAP. X. Independencie is contrary to the Word of God THe Divine Wisedome which found it expedient for man before the Fall not to live alone hath made it much more needfull for man to live in Society after his weakning by sinne Woe to him that is alone for if he fall who shall raise him up The best wits of themselves are prone to errors and miscarriages and left alone are inclined to run on in any evill way they have once begunne But engagement in