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authority_n bishop_n church_n jurisdiction_n 5,357 5 9.3309 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27045 The successive visibility of the church of which the Protestants are the soundest members I. defended against the opposition of Mr. William Johnson, II. proved by many arguments / by Richard Baxter ; whereunto is added 1. an account of my judgement to Mr. J. how far hereticks are or are not in the church, 2. Mr. Js. explication of the most used terms, with my queries thereupon, and his answer and my reply, 3. an appendix about successive ordination, 4. letters between me and T.S., a papist, with a narrative of the success. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Johnson, William, 1583-1663. 1660 (1660) Wing B1418; ESTC R17445 166,900 438

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anastasius_n pomponius_n laetus_n etc._n etc._n and_o of_o the_o novelty_n of_o their_o worship_n say_v platina_n in_o gregor_n 1._o what_o shall_v i_o say_v more_o of_o this_o holy_a man_n who_o whole_a institution_n of_o the_o church_n office_n special_o the_o old_a one_o be_v invent_v and_o approve_v by_o he_o which_o order_n i_o will_v we_o do_v follow_v then_o learned_a man_n will_v
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their_o diocese_n yet_o they_o may_v renounce_v all_o communion_n with_o he_o church_n that_o have_v no_o power_n over_o one_o another_o may_v have_v communion_n with_o one_o another_o and_o that_o communion_n they_o may_v hold_v and_o renounce_v as_o there_o be_v cause_n now_o if_o a_o neighbour_n patriarch_n with_o so_o many_o bishop_n of_o the_o west_n have_v renounce_v communion_n with_o chrysostom_n enemy_n and_o also_o write_v their_o letter_n on_o his_o behalf_n and_o take_v he_o still_o as_o in_o their_o communion_n this_o he_o hope_v will_v much_o further_o his_o restauration_n which_o yet_o he_o doubt_v as_o he_o have_v cause_n for_o in_o his_o second_o epistle_n he_o thank_v he_o for_o do_v his_o part_n though_o it_o do_v no_o good_a or_o do_v not_o avail_v and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o your_o author_n nicephorus_n tell_v you_o lib._n 13._o cap._n 31._o that_o chrysostom_n letter_n and_o his_o fellow-bishop_n also_o and_o the_o clergy_n of_o constantinople_n be_v 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easy_o know_v than_o christian_a doctrine_n can_v be_v know_v especial_o such_o as_o be_v controvert_v among_o we_o by_o mere_a unwritten_a tradition_n kingdom_n be_v of_o narrow_a compass_n than_o the_o world_n and_o though_o the_o sense_n of_o law_n be_v oft_o in_o question_n yet_o the_o be_v of_o they_o be_v seldom_o matter_n of_o controversy_n because_o man_n converse_v constant_o and_o familiar_o with_o each_o other_o may_v plain_o and_o full_o reveal_v their_o mind_n when_o god_n that_o condescend_v not_o to_o such_o a_o familiarity_n have_v deliver_v his_o mind_n by_o inspire_a person_n long_o ago_o with_o much_o less_o sensible_a advantage_n because_o it_o be_v a_o life_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o direct_v we_o to_o live_v mr._n j._n general_n council_n a_o general_a council_n i_o take_v to_o be_v a_o assembly_n of_o bishop_n and_o other_o chief_a prelate_n call_v convene_v and_o confirm_v by_o those_o who_o have_v sufficient_a spiritual_a authority_n to_o call_v convene_v and_o confirm_v r._n b._n of_o a_o general_n council_n qu._n 1._o who_o be_v it_o ad_fw-la esse_fw-la that_o must_v call_v convene_v confirm_v it_o till_o i_o know_v that_o i_o be_o never_o the_o near_o know_v what_o a_o council_n be_v and_o which_o be_v one_o indeed_o mr._n j._n answ._n definition_n abstract_a from_o inferior_a subdivision_n for_o your_o satisfaction_n i_o affirm_v it_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 1._o repl._n 1_o if_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o be_v or_o validity_n of_o a_o council_n that_o it_o be_v call_v or_o confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n than_o your_o definition_n signify_v nothing_o if_o you_o abstract_a from_o that_o which_o be_v so_o necessary_a a_o ingredient_n unless_o it_o be_v presuppose_v to_o be_v understand_v 2._o if_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o call_v a_o council_n as_o necessary_a to_o its_o be_v
be_v eutychian_o and_o jacobite_n and_o confess_v that_o their_o patriarch_n be_v in_o subjection_n to_o the_o patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n etc._n etc._n see_v more_o of_o the_o chofti_n jacobite_n maronites_n etc._n etc._n p._n 493_o 494._o where_o he_o confess_v that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v now_o subject_a to_o the_o pope_n and_o have_v renounce_v their_o old_a error_n see_v nilus_n on_o this_o subject_n subject_n subject_n liberatus_n in_o brev._n c._n 16._o 16._o 16._o epist._n praeambula_fw-la council_n chalcedon_n chalcedon_n chalcedon_n council_n chalcedon_n act._n 1._o 1._o 1._o council_n chalcedon_n act._n 8._o 8._o 8._o st._n cyprian_n epist._n 67._o 67._o 67._o council_n sard._n cap._n 4._o cite_v by_o st._n athan._n apol._n 2._o pag._n 753._o 753._o 753._o st._n basil._n epist._n 74._o 74._o 74._o st._n chrysost._n epist._n 2._o ad_fw-la innocent_n innocent_n innocent_n council_n ephes._n p._n 2._o act._n 5._o 5._o 5._o st._n athanas_n ad_fw-la solit._n epist._n julius_n in_o lit_fw-fr ad_fw-la arian_n ap_fw-mi athan_n apolog_fw-la 1._o pag._n 753._o theodoret._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o athanas_n apol._n 2._o zozom_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 7._o the_o appeal_n of_o theodoret_n from_o that_o council_n as_o to_o his_o judge_n be_v so_o undeniable_a that_o chamier_n be_v force_v to_o acknowledge_v it_o tom._n 2._o l._n 13._o c._n g._n p._n 498._o and_o the_o whole_a council_n of_o chalcedon_n acknowledge_v the_o right_n of_o that_o appeal_n restore_v theodoret_n to_o his_o bishopric_n by_o force_n of_o a_o order_n give_v upon_o that_o appeal_n by_o leo_n pope_n to_o restore_v he_o concern_v saint_n athanasius_n be_v judge_v and_o right_v by_o julius_n pope_n chamier_n cit_fw-la p._n 497._o acknowledge_v the_o matter_n of_o fact_n to_o be_v so_o but_o against_o all_o antiquity_n pretend_v that_o judgement_n to_o have_v be_v unjust_a which_o have_v it_o be_v so_o yet_o it_o show_v a_o true_a power_n of_o judge_v in_o the_o pope_n though_o then_o undue_o execute_v otherwise_o saint_n athanasius_n will_v never_o have_v make_v use_n of_o it_o neither_o can_v it_o be_v condemn_v of_o injustice_n unless_o saint_n athanasius_n be_v also_o condemed_a as_o unjust_a in_o consent_v to_o it_o niceph._n lib._n 13._o cap._n 34._o chamier_n cit_fw-la p._n 498._o say_v other_z bishop_n restore_v those_o who_o be_v wrongful_o depose_v as_o well_o as_o the_o pope_n which_o though_o it_o be_v so_o yet_o never_o be_v there_o any_o single_a bishop_n save_o the_o pope_n who_o restore_v any_o who_o be_v out_o of_o their_o respective_a diocese_n or_o patriarchates_n but_o always_o collect_v together_o in_o a_o synod_n by_o common_a voice_n and_o that_o in_o regard_n only_o of_o their_o neighbour_a bishop_n whereas_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n his_o sole_a and_o single_a authority_n restore_v bishop_n wrongful_o depose_v all_o the_o church_n over_o over_o over_o council_n chalced._n action_n 1._o 1._o 1._o council_n chalced._n action_n 3._o 3._o 3._o which_o can_v not_o be_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o sanctity_n and_o truth_n which_o be_v then_o in_o it_o for_o the_o church_n of_o milan_n and_o many_o other_o in_o france_n africa_n and_o greece_n be_v also_o then_o pure_a and_o holy_a and_o yet_o none_o have_v this_o title_n save_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o time_n of_o justinian_n the_o emperor_n agapet_n pope_n even_o in_o constantinople_n against_o the_o will_n both_o of_o the_o emperor_n and_o empress_n depose_v anthymus_n and_o ordain_v menna_n in_o his_o place_n libera●_n in_o breviario_fw-la cap._n 21._o marcellinus_n come_v in_o chronico_fw-la council_n constantin_n sub_fw-la menna_n act_n 4._o and_o the_o same_o st._n greg._n c._n 7._o ep._n 63._o declare_v that_o both_o th●_n emperor_n and_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n acknowledge_v that_o the_o church_n of_o constantinople_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o see_v of_o rome_n and_o l._n 7._o ep._n 37._o et_fw-la alibi_fw-la pronounce_v that_o in_o case_n of_o fall_v into_o offence_n he_o know_v no_o bishop_n which_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n rome_n rome_n st._n augustin_n tom_n 1_o epist._n rom._n pontif._n post_n epist._n 2._o ad_fw-la celestinum_n epist._n council_n ad_fw-la i._o con_v pap._n act._n 1._o &_o sequ_fw-la for_o the_o age_n 600._o see_v st._n gregory_n pope_n l._n 10._o ep_n 30._o where_o heretic_n and_o shismaticks_n repent_v be_v receive_v then_o into_o the_o church_n upon_o solemn_a promise_n and_o public_a protestation_n that_o they_o will_v never_o any_o more_o separate_v from_o but_o always_o remain_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o communion_n in_o all_o thing_n with_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n
than_o the_o first_o great_a general_n council_n and_o other_o follow_v be_v none_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o be_v not_o call_v by_o he_o and_o as_o certain_a that_o he_o have_v never_o prove_v any_o such_o authority_n to_o call_v they_o or_o confirm_v they_o r._n b._n qu_n 2._o must_v it_o not_o represent_v all_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v not_o your_o definition_n agree_v to_o a_o provincial_n or_o the_o small_a council_n mr._n j._n answ._n yes_o my_o definition_n speak_v specifical_o of_o bishop_n and_o chief_a prelate_n as_o contradistinct_a from_o inferior_a pastor_n and_o clergy_n and_o thereby_o comprise_v all_o the_o individuum_n contain_v in_o the_o species_n and_o consequent_o make_v a_o distinction_n from_o national_a or_o particular_a council_n where_o some_o bishop_n only_o be_v convene_v not_o all_o that_o be_v only_o some_o part_n and_o not_o the_o whole_a species_n or_o specifical_a notion_n apply_v to_o bishop_n of_o every_o age_n and_o yet_o i_o say_v not_o all_o bishop_n but_o bishop_n and_o chief_a prelate_n because_o though_o all_o be_v to_o be_v call_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o all_o shall_v come_v whence_o appear_v what_o i_o be_o to_o answer_v to_o the_o next_o two_o question_n r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 2._o repl._n 1_o then_o you_o have_v have_v no_o general_n council_n much_o less_o can_v have_v any_o more_o for_o you_o have_v none_o to_o represent_v the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n unless_o by_o a_o mock_n representation_n 2._o if_o all_o must_v be_v call_v your_o council_n have_v not_o be_v general_n that_o call_v not_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o if_o most_o be_v necessary_o detain_v as_o by_o distance_n the_o prohibition_n of_o prince_n etc._n etc._n the_o call_v make_v it_o not_o their_o duty_n to_o be_v there_o and_o so_o make_v it_o not_o a_o general_n council_n which_o be_v so_o call_v from_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o meeting_n and_o representation_n and_o not_o of_o the_o invitation_n no_o more_o than_o a_o call_v will_v make_v it_o a_o true_a council_n if_o none_o come_v r._n b._n qu._n 3._o how_o many_o bishop_n and_o from_o what_o part_n must_v ad_fw-la esse_fw-la make_v such_o a_o council_n mr._n j._n answ._n the_o number_n be_v moral_o to_o be_v consider_v more_o or_o few_o according_a to_o the_o difficulty_n of_o time_n distance_n of_o place_n and_o other_o circumstance_n as_o be_v also_o the_o part_n from_o whence_o they_o be_v to_o come_v r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 3._o repl._n this_o be_v a_o put-off_a for_o want_v of_o a_o answer_n be_v it_o a_o council_n if_o difficulty_n keep_v away_o all_o if_o not_o it_o can_v be_v no_o general_n council_n when_o difficulty_n keep_v away_o the_o most_o much_o less_o when_o such_o a_o petty_a confederacy_n as_o meet_v at_o trent_n shall_v pretend_v to_o represent_v the_o christian_a world_n you_o thus_o leave_v we_o uncertain_a when_o a_o council_n be_v general_n and_o when_o not_o how_o can_v the_o people_n tell_v when_o you_o can_v tell_v yourself_o when_o the_o bishop_n be_v so_o many_o as_o make_v a_o council_n general_n r._n b._n qu._n 4._o may_v none_o but_o bishop_n and_o chief_a prelate_n be_v member_n as_o you_o intimate_v mr._n j._n answ._n no_o other_o unless_o such_o inferior_n as_o be_v send_v to_o supply_v the_o place_n and_o as_o deputy_n of_o those_o bishop_n or_o prelate_n be_v such_o member_n of_o the_o council_n as_o have_v decisive_n vote_n in_o frame_v decree_n and_o definition_n r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 4._o repl._n this_o be_v but_o your_o private_a opinion_n no_o council_n have_v define_v it_o unless_o they_o be_v contradictory_n for_o i_o suppose_v you_o know_v that_o basil_n and_o many_o council_n before_o it_o have_v presbyter_n in_o they_o mr._n j._n schism_n i_o understand_v by_o schism_n a_o wilful_a separation_n or_o division_n of_o one_o self_n from_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n of_o christ._n r._n b._n of_o schism_n qu._n 1._o be_v it_o no_o schism_n to_o separate_v from_o a_o particular_a church_n unless_o from_o the_o whole_a mr._n j._n answ._n no_o it_o be_v no_o schism_n as_o schism_n be_v take_v in_o the_o holy_a father_n for_o that_o great_a and_o capital_a crime_n so_o severe_o censure_v by_o they_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o i_o take_v it_o here_o r._n b._n reply_n of_o schism_n qu._n 1._o repl._n though_o i_o take_v schism_n more_o comprehensive_o and_o i_o think_v apt_o myself_o yet_o hence_o i_o observe_v your_o justification_n of_o the_o protestant_n from_o the_o charge_n of_o schism_n see_v they_o separate_v not_o from_o the_o catholic_a or_o whole_a church_n for_o they_o separate_v not_o from_o the_o armenian_a ethiopian_a greek_a etc._n etc._n nor_o from_o you_o as_o christian_n but_o as_o scandalous_a offender_n who_o we_o be_v command_v to_o avoid_v we_o separate_v not_o from_o any_o but_o as_o they_o separate_v from_o christ._n r._n b._n qu._n 2._o or_o be_v it_o no_o schism_n unless_o wilful_a mr._n j._n answ._n no_o it_o be_v not_o schism_n unless_o the_o separation_n be_v wilful_a on_o his_o part_n who_o make_v it_o r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 2._o repl._n again_o you_o further_a justify_v we_o from_o schism_n if_o it_o be_v wilful_a it_o must_v be_v against_o knowledge_n but_o we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o separate_v wilful_o or_o know_o from_o the_o whole_a church_n that_o we_o abhor_v the_o thought_n of_o such_o a_o thing_n as_o impious_a and_o damnable_a r._n b._n qu._n 3._o be_v it_o none_o if_o you_o make_v a_o division_n in_o the_o church_n and_o not_o from_o the_o church_n mr._n j._n answ._n not_o as_o we_o here_o understand_v schism_n and_o as_o the_o father_n treat_v it_o for_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v perfect_o one_o can_v admit_v of_o any_o proper_a schism_n within_o itself_o for_o that_o will_v divide_v it_o into_o two_o which_o it_o can_v be_v r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 3._o repl._n though_o i_o be_o sure_a paul_n call_v it_o schism_n when_o man_n make_v division_n in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o from_o it_o not_o make_v it_o two_o church_n but_o dislocate_a some_o member_n and_o abate_v charity_n and_o cause_v contention_n where_o there_o shall_v be_v peace_n yet_o i_o accept_v your_o continue_a justification_n of_o we_o who_o if_o we_o shall_v be_v tempt_v to_o be_v divider_n in_o the_o church_n shall_v yet_o hate_v to_o be_v divider_n from_o it_o as_o believe_v that_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o whole_a body_n be_v also_o separate_v from_o the_o head_n mr._n j._n sir_n the_o want_n of_o a_o scribe_n have_v force_v i_o to_o fail_v a_o little_a in_o point_n of_o time_n but_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v excuse_v he_o who_o desire_v to_o serve_v you_o w._n j._n june_n 22._o 1660._o r._n b._n sir_n urgent_a unavoidable_a business_n constrain_v i_o to_o delay_v my_o return_n to_o your_o solution_n or_o explication_n of_o your_o definition_n till_o this_o june_n 29._o 1660._o when_o you_o desire_v i_o to_o answer_v any_o such_o question_n or_o explain_v any_o doubtful_a passage_n of_o i_o i_o shall_v willing_o do_v it_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n you_o may_v see_v while_o your_o term_n be_v still_o unexplain_v and_o your_o explication_n or_o definition_n so_o insignificant_a how_o unfit_a we_o be_v to_o proceed_v any_o further_a in_o dispute_n till_o we_o better_o understand_v each_o other_o as_o to_o our_o term_n and_o subject_a which_o when_o you_o have_v do_v your_o part_n to_o i_o shall_v glad_o if_o god_n enable_v i_o go_v on_o with_o you_o till_o we_o come_v if_o it_o may_v be_v to_o our_o desire_a issue_n but_o still_o i_o crave_v your_o performance_n of_o the_o double_a task_n you_o be_v engage_v in_o richard_n baxter_n appendix_n the_o most_o that_o i_o here_o say_v against_o the_o successive_a visibility_n of_o our_o church_n be_v reduce_v by_o they_o to_o the_o point_n of_o ordination_n they_o say_v we_o can_v have_v no_o church_n without_o pastor_n no_o pastor_n without_o ordination_n and_o no_o ordination_n but_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n therefore_o when_o we_o break_v off_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n we_o interrupt_v our_o succession_n which_o can_v be_v repair_v but_o by_o a_o return_n to_o they_o this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o most_o of_o their_o discourse_n in_o what_o shape_n soever_o they_o appear_v to_o which_o i_o answer_v 1._o as_o a_o church_n be_v take_v for_o a_o community_n of_o christian_n which_o be_v real_o member_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a so_o it_o may_v ad_fw-la esse_fw-la be_v without_o pastor_n but_o the_o catholic_a church_n can_v never_o be_v without_o they_o nor_o yet_o any_o true_a political_n organise_v particular_a church_n 2._o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o papist_n own_o opinion_n that_o ordination_n of_o their_o particular_a pastor_n be_v