in hys Diocese hath the ordering of all matters within the circuite thereof and therfore the meaning of the Councell to bee that if there be any affaires that touche the whole Churche many lande that the Byshoppes shoulde doe nothing without making the Metropolitane priuy as also the Metropolitane myght doe nothing without making the other Byshops a counsell of that which he attempted which maister Doctor doth cleane leaue out And if thys authoritie which the councell geueth to the Metropolitane being nothing so excessiue as the authorytie of our Metropolitanes now had not bene ouer much or had bene iustifiable what needed men father thys Canon which was ordayned in thys councell of the Apostles for the seeking falsly of the name of the Apostles to geue creadite vnto thys Canon doth cary with it a note of euill and of shame which they woulde haue couered as it were with the garment of the Apostles authoritie And in the hundreth twentie and three page to that which Maister Bucer sayeth that in the Churches there hath bene one which hath beene cheefe ouer the rest of the mynisters if he meane one cheefe in euery particulare churche or one cheefe ouer the mynisters of dyuers churches meeting at one Synode and cheefe for the time and for such respectes as I haue before shewed then I am of that mynde which he is And if he meane any other cheefe or after any other sort I deny that any such cheefety was from the Apostles tymes or that any suche cheefetie pleaseth the holye ghoste whereof I haue before shewed the proufes And wheras M. Bucer seemeth to allow that the name of a byshop which the holy ghost expresly geueth to all the ministers of the word indifferently was appropriated to certen cheefe gouernoures of the church I haue before shewed by dyuers reasons how that was not done without great presumption and manifest daunger and in the end great hurt to the church And if M. Doctor delyght thus to oppose mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holy ghost and to the reasons which are grounded out of the scripture M. Caluin doth openly misselyke of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certayne which the holy ghost maketh common to moe And whereas of M. Caluines wordes which sayth that there be degrees of honor in the mynistery M. Doctor would gather an archbyshop if he had vnderstanded that an Apostle is aboue an Euangelist an Euangelist aboue a pastor a pastor aboue a doctor and he aboue an elder that ruleth only he needed neuer to haue gone to the popish Hierarchie to seeke hys dyuersities of degrees which he myght haue founde in S. Paule And whereas vpon M. Caluines words which sayeth that Paule was one of the cheefe amongst the Apostles he would seeme to conclude an archbyshop amongst the byshops he should haue remembred that S. Paules cheeftie amongst the Apostles consisted not in hauing any authoritie or domynion ouer the rest but in labouring and suffering more then the rest and in giftes more excellent then the rest Now where as hee sayeth that we desire to pull the rule from others that the rule myght be in oure handes and we myght doe what we list and that we seeke to wythdraw oure selues from controlement of Prince and Byshoppe and all Firste hee may learne if hee will that wee desire no other authoritie then that which is to the edifying of the church and which is grounded of the word of God which if any mynister shall abuse to hys gayne or ambytion then he ought to abyde not only the controlement of the other mynisters yea of the brethren but also further the punishment of the Magistrates according to the quantitie of the faulte And seeing you charge the brethren so sore you must be put in remembrance that thys vnreasonable authoritie ouer the rest of the mynisters and clergy came to the byshops and archbyshops when as the Pope dyd exempt hys shauelinges from the obedience subiection and iurisdiction of the Princes now therfore that we be ready to geue that subiection vnto the Prince and offer our selues to the Princes correction in things wherein we shall doe a misse doe you thincke it an vnreasonable thing that we desire to bee disburdened of the byshops and archbyshops yoke which the Pope hath layde vpon our neckes And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the 214. page thys matter is agayne handled where first M. Doctor would draw the place of Galathians the second to proue an archbyshop and that by a false translation for hoi dokountes which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they the are the cheefe although the place of the Galathians may be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full agaynst the archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more against him then for him For S. Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferioure to any of the Apostles bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his gospel from them but from Christ immediatly therfore if the apostles that were estemed most of and supposed by the Galathians others to be the cheefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth hym it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the rest And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the rest there seemeth to be no neede that one byshoppe should rule ouer the rest But that I run not backe to that I haue handled before I will not heere so much vrge the place as I will not doe also that of the Hebrues which followeth and yet the argument is stronger then that M. Doctor coulde answere For if the wryter to the Hebrues doe proue our sauiour Christes vocation to be iust and lawfull because hys calling was contayned in the scriptures as appeareth in the 5. and 6. verse then it followeth that the calling of the archbishop which is not comprehended there is neither iust nor lawfull For that no man sayth the apostle taketh that honour vnto hym selfe but he that is called of god c. But I say hauing before sufficiently spoken of the reasons which ouerthrow the archbyshoppe I will let passe these and other places answearing only that which M. Doctor bringeth for the establishment of them He sayth therefore afterwarde that although one man be not able to be byshop ouer all the church yet he may be byshop ouer a whole diocese or of a prouince Now if I wold say the one is as impossible as the other for proofe thereof alleage that which the Philosophers say that as there are no degrees in that which is infinite so that of thinges which are infinite one thing can not be more infinite then an other so there are no degrees in impossibilitie that of thinges which are impossible one thyng shoulde bee more impossible then an other If I shoulde thus reason I thincke I shoulde putte you to some payne
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what
hand as fast as you builde with the other But to answere directly to the place of the fifthe of the first to Timothe I saye first that S. Paule wryteth to Timothe and therefore instructeth hym what he should do for his parte in the appoynting of the minister If he had written to the whole Churche of Ephesus he would lykewise haue instructed them how they should haue behaued thē selues in that businesse If one do wryte vnto hys frende that hath interest in any election to take heede that he chuse none but such as are meete shall any man conclude therupon that none hath to doe in that election but he to whom that letter is writtē Then I say further that S. Paule attributeth that vnto Timothe that was common to moe with hym because he being the director and moderator of the election is sayde to doe that whiche many doe which thing I haue proued by dyuers examples both out of the scripture and otherwise before And euen in this imposition of handes it is manifestly to be shewed For that where as S. Paule sayth in the 2. Epistle that Timothe was ordayned by the putting on of hys hands vppon hym in the first Epistle he sayth that he was ordayned by the putting on of the handes of the eldership So that that which he in one place taketh to him selfe alone in the other he communicateth with moe And that he dyd it not him selfe alone it may appeare by those wordes which folow and communicate not with other mens sinnes as if he should saye if other will ordeyne insuffycient ministers yet be not thou caryed away with their example And further that his authoritie was equall with other elders of that church and that he had no superioritie aboue his fellowes it may appeare for that he sayth lay thy hands rashly of none where if he had had authoritie ouer the rest he would rather haue sayd suffer none to lay his handes rashly Agayne it is a fault in you that you can not distinguishe or put difference betweene the election and imposition of handes Last of all I answere that although this might agree to Timothe alone as in deede it can not yet it followeth not that euery Bishop may do so For Timothe was an Euangelist which was aboue a Bishop as hereafter shall better appeare And it is an euill argument to say the greater may do it therfore the lesse may do it The superiour therfore the inferioure If you were at any cost with producing your witnesses you should not be so vnwise to be so lauishe of them as to cite Ambrose and Chrisostome to proue a thing that none hath euer denyed For who denyeth that S. Paule doth not geue warning to Timothe to be circumspect If you meane to vse their testimonie to proue that he only made the elections they saye neuer a word for you if there be any thing cite it To the place of Titus I answere as to that of Timothe for there is nothing there but agreeth also to thys place And as for Ierome he hath nothing in that place as he hath in no other to proue that to the Bishop only doth belong the right of election of the minister I haue shewed you reasons before why it cā not be so taken of the sole election of the Bishop the church being shutte out If authoritie woulde doe any good in thys behalfe as it seemeth it ought seeing that all your proofe throughe out the whole booke is in the authorities of men which Aristotle calleth atechnas peiseis vncunning proofes I coulde sende you to maister Calum which teacheth that it is not to be thought that S. Paule woulde permit to Titus to ordayne byshoppes and ministers by hys owne authoritie when he hym selfe would not take so much vpon hym but ioyned hys with the voyces of the church But he peraduenture sauoureth not your tast and yet you woulde make men beleue sometimes that you make muche of hym if you can gette but one worde vnioynted and racked in peeces from the rest to make good your part If hee weyghe not with you you haue maister Musculus whome you take to bee a great patrone of youres in thys cause which dothe with greater vehemencie affirme the same thing that mayster Caluin sayth asking whether any man can beleeue that Paisle permitted in thys place to Titus or in the place before alledged to Timothe that they shoulde ordayne of theyr owne authoritie and by them selues when as Paule woulde not doe it but by the voyces and election of the churche In the ende you say it is the generall consent of all the learned fathers that it belongeth to the byshop to chuse the minister Because you acquaint my eares with such bolde and vntrue affirmations I can now the more paciently heare you thus vaunting your selfe as though you had all the fathers by heart and caryed them about with you wheresoeuer you went whereas if a man woulde measure you by the skill in them which you haue shewed heere he woulde hardly beleeue that you had redde the tenthe part of them Are all the learned fathers of that mynde I thinke then you would haue bene better aduised then to haue sette downe but one when as you know a matter in controuersie will not be tryed but by two or three witnesses vnlesse the Lord speake hym selfe and therefore you geue me occasion to suspect that because you cite but one you know of no more now let vs see what your one witnesse will depose in thys matter And fyrst of all you haue done more wisely then simply in that you haue altered Ieromes wordes For where hee sayeth wherein doth a byshoppe differ from an elder but only in ordayning you say a byshop doth excell all other mynisters c. I report me heere vnto your conscience whether you dyd not of purpose chaunge Ieromes hys sentēce because you wold not let the reader vnderstand what oddes is betweene S. Ieromes bishops in his dayes betwene our Lord Bishoppes For then the byshop had nothing aboue an elder or other minister but only the ordayning of the minister Now he hath a thousande parishes where the minister hath but one For the matters also of the substaunce of the ministerie the bishop now excommunicateth which the minister can not absolueth or receyueth into the church which the minister can not Besides diuers other things which are meere ciuill which the byshop doth and which neither byshop nor other minister ought to doe I say I reporte me to your conscience whether you altered Ieromes wordes to thys ende that you would keepe thys from the knowledge of your reader or no. For answere to the place it is an euill argument to saye the byshop had the ordayning of the minister Ergo he had the election of hym the contrary rather is a good argument the byshop had the ordayning of the minister therefore he had not the election of hym For ordination
must depose that the name of an archbyshop is not antychristian of whome as of Clement that went before and Anicetus which followeth after the common prouerbe may be verifyed Aske my fellow if I be a theefe And although the answerer be ashamed of hym and sayth therefore he will omit him yet euen very neede dryueth hym to bring hym in and to make hym speake the vttermost hee can And thys honest man sayth that Iames was the first archbyshop of Ierusalem But Eusebius sayth Iames was byshop not archbyshop of Ierusalem and appoynted by the apostles And in an other place he sayth that the apostles dyd appoynt after hys death Simeon the sonne of Cleophas byshop of Ierusalem And Ireneus sayeth that the apostles in all places appoynted byshops vnto the churches whereby it may appeare what an idle dreame it is of Clement Volusianus and Anacletus eyther that Peter dyd thys by his owne authoritie or that the primitiue churche was euer staynes wyth these ambytious tytles of patriarche prymate metropolytane or archbyshoppe when as the storyes make mention that thoroughe out euery churche not chery prouince not by Peter or Paule but by apostles a byshop not an archbyshop was appoynted And heere you put me in remembraunce of an other argument agaynst the archbyshop which I will frame after thys sorte If there shoulde be any archbyshop many place the same shoulde be eyther in respect of the persone or minister and hys excellencie or in respecte of the magnificence of the place but the most excellent mynisters that euer were in the most famous places were no archbyshops but byshops only therefore there is no cause why there shoulde be any archbyshop For if there were euer mynister of a congregation worthy that was Iames if there were euer any citte that ought to haue thys honor as that the mynister of it should haue a more honorable title then the mynisters of other cities and townes that was Ierusalem where the sonne of God preached and from whence the gospell issued out vnto all places And afterwarde that Ierusalem decayed and the church there Antioche was a place where the notablest men were that euer haue bene since which also deserued great honoure for that there the * disciples were first called christians but neyther was that called the first and cheefest church neyther the mynisters of it called the Arche or principal byshoppes And Eusebius to declare that thys order was firme and durable sheweth that S. Iohn the Apostle which ouer lyued the residue of the Apostles ordayned byshops in euery church These two Anacletus and Anicetus you say are suspected why do you say suspected when as they haue bene conuinced and condemned and stande vppon the pillery with the cause of forgerie written in great letters that he which runneth may reade Some of the papistes them selues haue suspected them but those which mayntayne the truth haue condemned them as full of popery full of blasphemy and as those in whome was the very spirit of contradiction to the Apostles and their doctryne And do you marke what you say when you say that these are but suspected Thus much you say that it is suspected or in doubt whether the whole body of poperie and antichristianitie were in the Apostles time or sone after or no for Clement was in the Apostles time and their scholer and so you leaue it in dout whether the apostles appoynted and were the authors of popery or no. I thinke if euer you had red the Epistles you woulde neuer haue cited their authorities nor haue spoken so fauourably of them as you doe You come after to the councel of Nice wherin I wil not sticke with you that you say it was holden the CCC xxx yeare of the Lorde when as it maye appeare by Eusebius hys Computation that it was holden Anno Domini CCC xx and heere you take so greate a leape that it is enoughe to breake the archbishoppes necke to skippe at once CCC yeares that is from the tyme of the apostles vntill the time of the councell of Nice wythout any testimony of any either father or storie of faithe and credite whych maketh once mention of an archbishop What no mention of hym in Theophilus byshop of Antioche none in Ignatius none in Clemens Alexandrinus none in Iustin Martyr in Ireneus in Tertullian in Origine in Cyprian none in all those olde Historiographers out of the whych Eusebius gathereth hys story Was it for his basenes and smalnes that he could not be seene amongst the byshops elders and deacons being the cheefe and principall of them all can the Ceder of Lebanon be hid amongst the boxe trees Aristotle in his Rhethorike ad Theodecten sayeth that it is a token of contempt to forget the name of an other belike therefore if there were any archbishop he had no chaire in the church but was as it semeth digging at the metalles For otherwise they that haue filled their bookes wyth the often mentioning of bishops would haue no doubt remembred him But let vs heare what the councell of Nice hath for these titles In the. 6. canon mention is made of a metropolitane bishop what is that to the metropolitane whych is now either to the name or to the office of the office it shal appeare afterwards In the name I thinke there is a great differēce betwene a metropolitane bishop metropolitane of England or of al England A Metropolitane bishop was nothing els but a bishop of that place which it pleased the Emperor or magistrate to make the chefe citie of the diocese or shire and as for thys name it maketh no more difference betwene bishop and bishop then when I say a minister of London and a minister of Nuington There is no man that is well aduised whych will gather of thys saying that there is as great difference in preheminence betweene those two ministers as is betweene London and Nuington for his office and preheminence we shall see hereafter There are alledged to proue the names of archbyshops patriarkes archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the councel of Nece For the. 25. 26. 27. there are no such canons of that councell and although there be a thirtenthe canon there is no worde of patriarke or archdeacon there contained And I maruell wyth what shame you can thruste vppon vs these counterfaite canons whych come out of the popes minte yea and whych are not to be found Theodoret sayeth that there are but twentie Canons of the councell of Neece and those twentie are in the tome of the councels and in those there is no mention of any patriarke archdeacon archbishop Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twenty but in lengthe and in none of those are found any of these names of archbishop archdeacon patriarke And it is as lawfull for M. Harding to alledge the. 44. canon of the coūcell of Nece to proue the supremacie
muche for the Pope as for the archbyshoppe For although they be two heades yet they stande vpon one necke and therfore the reformed churches whych cutte right did strike them bothe of at one blowe In neyther of the sentences heere alledged out of Cyprian nor in all his works as hath bene before noted is there one worde of an archbyshop and yet M. doctor sayeth that he speaketh of an archbyshop Before he shewed the name wythout the office and now he goeth about to shew the office wythout the name so that he can neuer make bothe the name and office meete together To shape out an archbyshop heere you must needes interpreate the wordes byshop and priest archbyshop and hygh priest for Cyprian maketh mention of no other name of ministerie in those places And if you maye haue thys scope of interpreating it wil not be harde for you to proue that stones be bread and that chaulke is cheese Let vs see what is a byshop or priest I vse the name of priest against my wil but because it is sacerdos you so trāslate it that it may be better vnderstanded what I answere to you I am content to followe you so farre I say let vs consider what is a byshop or priest by S. Cyprian and thereby we shall knowe what an archbyshop he setteth forthe vnto vs Whych thing may appeare manifestly by that which he sayeth in the same Epistle that the byshop that is appoynted into the place of hym that is dead is chosen peaceably by the voyce of all the people I thincke you will not say that all the people through oute the whole prouince or through out a whole diocese as we count a diocese mette togither for that had bene bothe a great disorder and confusion a great charge to the church and in the time of persecution as that was to haue offered the whole church in all the prouince into the mouthe of the wolfe And least peraduenture you shoulde haue thys hole to hide your selfe in saying that it might be procured that in euery church or parishe through out eyther the prouince or diocese the consent of the people might be asked and they tary in their places where they dwel Cyprian in the next epistle doth put the matter out of all question saying that the priest whome he after calleth byshop is chosen in the presence of the people in the eyes of all so that Cyprians byshop whome you will needes haue an archbyshop had neither prouince nor diocese as we call a diocese but only a church or congregation suche as the ministers and pastors wyth vs whych are appoynted vnto seuerall townes Which may further appeare in that Cyprian sayeth that out of one prouince there were 90. bishops whych condemned Priuatus Nowe if there were 90. byshops in one prouince whych met and yet not all that were in that prouince as may appeare out of the same Epistle all men do vnderstand that the scope that Cyprians byshop or archbyshop as you will haue him had was no suche thing as a diocese or a prouince I coulde bring infinite testimonies out of Cyprian to proue that the byshop in his time was nothing else but S. Paules byshop that is one that had cure and charge of one flocke whych was so placed as it might be taught of hym and ouerseene by him and gouerned by hym and of whom in matters pertaining to God it myght depend Furthermore to shape the archbyshop by these places of Cyp. you must be driuen to expound this word church prouince The papistes which cite thys place for the pope as you doe for the archbishop expounde the worde churche heere to be the whole church vniuersal and catholike and in dede although it be falsly expounded so in thys place yet may they doe it wyth more probability and likelyhode then to expound it a prouince forsomuch as these words the church is oftner red both in the scripture and old wryters to signify the whole church then any prouince of one realme But lette Cyprian expounde him selfe what he meaneth by a church heere although that may easely appeare by that whych is spoken of S. Cyprian hys bishop Wheras Cyprian declareth that Cornelius the bishop of the church which was in Rome would not let Felicissimum a Nouation hereticke being caste oute by the byshoppes of Affricke to enter into the church he declareth sufficiently that he meaneth that companye of the faithfull whych were gathered togither at Rome to heare the word and to communicate at the sacramentes For it was not Cornelius part to shutte him out of the prouince neither indeede could he him selfe being not able without hazard by reason of the persecution that then was to tary in any part of the prouince Againe speaking against the Nouatian hereticke he sheweth that throughe hys wicked opinion of denying of repentance to those that were fallen the confession of faults in the churche was hindred Nowe it is manifest that confession was not made through out the prouince but in that particulare church where the partye dwelt that committed the fault Therefore Cyprian vnderstandeth by the name of the church neither diocese as we call diocese and muche les a whole prouince And in the same Epistle speaking of those whych had fallen he sayeth that they durst not come so much as to the thresholde or entry of the churche where he also opposeth the church to the prouince saying that they roue about the prouince and run about to deceiue the brethren Seeing therefore the byshop whych Cyprian speaketh of is nothing else but such as we call pastor or as the common name with vs is parson and his church wherof he is bishop is neither diocese nor prouince but a congregation whych mete togither in one place to be taught of one man what should M. doctor meane to put on this great name of archbyshop vpon so small a byshoppricke as it were Saules great harnes vpon Dauid hys little body or as if a man should set a wide huge porche before a little house And least that M. doctor should say that notwithstanding the bishops had but seuerall churches yet one of them might haue either a title more excellēt then the rest or authority and gouernment ouer the rest that shall be likewise considered out of Cyprian And first for the title and honor of archbishop it appeareth how Cyprian held that as a proud name for that he obiecteth to Florentius as a presumptuous thing for that in beleuing certaine euill reports of hym and misiudging of him he did appoynt him selfe bishop of a bishop and iudge ouer hym which was for the time appoynted of God to be iudge And heerein also I may vse the same reasons which the godly writers of our times vse against the pope to proue that he had no superiority in those dayes ouer other bishops for that the other bishops called him brother and he them called him fellow bishop he
them For so doth Cyprian cal the bishops of that prouince in his epistle his fellow bishops and in diuers places his brethren And in the sentence which he spake in the coūcel of Carthage he sayth none of vs doth take him selfe to be bishop of bishops Nowe that there was no authoritye of one byshop ouer an other and that there was none suche as when controuersies roase tooke vppon hym the compounding of them or any one to whome it appertained to see the vnitye of the church kept and to see that all other bishops and the cleargy did their duety as M. Doctor beareth vs in hand it may clearely be seene in diuers places of Cyprian and first of all in that sentence which he spake in the councel of Carthage where he proceedeth further after this sort that none of them did by any tirannicall feare binde his felowes in office or any fellow byshops to any necessity of obedience seeing that euery bishop hath for his free libertye and power hys owne iudgement or discretion as one which can not be iudged of an other as he also hym selfe can not iudge an other But sayth he we ought to tary and waite for the iudgement of our Lord Iesus Christ which only and alone hath power to set vs ouer hys church to iudge of our doing And in the same Epistle whereout the first place is taken by M. Doctor he sayth that vnto euery one a portion of the flocke is appoynted which euery one must rule and gouerne as he that shall render an accompt of hys deede vnto the lord And in an other place hee sayth we doe not vse any compulsion or vyolence ouer any nor appoynt no law to any seeing that euery one that is set ouer the church hath in the gouernment the free disposition of hys owne will whereof he shall geue an accompt vnto the lord And yet Cyprian was the byshop of the metropolitane or cheefe seate and one whome for hys learning and godlynesse the rest no doubt had in great reuerence and gaue great honor vnto And whereas it is sayde for the preseruation of vnitie one must be ouer all S. Cyprian sheweth that the vnitie of the church is conserued not by hauing one byshop ouer all But by the agreement of the byshops one with an other For so he wryteth that the church is knit and coupled together as it were with the glew of the byshops consenting one with an other and as for the compounding of controuersies it is manyfest that it was not done by one byshop in a prouince but those byshoppes whych were neere the place where the schisme or heresie sprang For speaking of the appeasing of controuersies and schismes and shewing how dyuers byshops were drawne into the heresie of Nouatus he sayth that the vertue and strength of the Christians was not so decayed or languished but that there was a portion of priestes which dyd not geue place vnto those ruines and shipwrackes of fayth And in an other place he sayth therefore most deare brother the plentifull body or company of the priests are as it were with the glew of mutuall concorde bande of vnitie ioyned together that if any of our company be author of an heresie and goe about to destroy and rent the flocke of Christ the rest should helpe and as profitable mercifull shepheards gather together the sheepe of the Lord wherby it is manifest that the appeasing composing of controuersies heresies was not then thought to be most fitte to be in one byshops hand but in as many as coulde conueniently assemble together according to the danger of the heresie which sprang or deepe roote which it had taken or was like to take And that there was in his time no such authoritie geuen as that any one might remoue the causes or controuersies which rose as now we see there is when the byshop of the diocese taketh the matters in controuersie which rise in any church within hys diocese from the minister and elders to whome the decision pertayneth and as when the archbyshop taketh it away from the byshop it may appeare in the same thirde Epistle of the first booke where he sayth after this sort It is ordayned it is equall and right that euery mans cause shoulde be there hearde where the fault was committed And a little after he sayth It is meete to handle the matter there where they may haue both accusers and witnesses of the fault whiche although it be spoken of them which fied out of Affrike vnto Rome yet the reason is generall and doth as wel serue agaynst these Ecclesiasticall persons which will take vnto them the decyding of those controuersies that were done a hundreth mile of them And whereas M. Doctor in both places of Cyprian semeth to stand much vpon the wordes One Byshop and priest the reason thereof doth appeare in an other place of Cyprian most manifestly and that it maketh no more to proue that there ought to be one archbyshop ouer a hole prouince then to say that there ought to be but one husbande proueth that therefore there should be but one husbande in euery countrey or prouince which shoulde see that all the rest of the husbandes doe their dueties to their wyues For thys was the case A Nouatian hereticke being condemned and cast out of the churches of Affrica by the consent of the byshops not able by embassage sent to them to obtayne to be receiued to their communion and fellowship agayne goeth afterwardes to Rome and being lykewise there repelled in tyme getteth hym selfe by certayne which fauoured hys heresie to be chosen byshop there at Rome Cornelius being the byshop or pastor of those which were there godly mynded whereupon it commeth that Cyprian vrgeth one byshop one priest in the church because at Rome there was two whereof one was a wolfe which ought not to haue bene there considering there was but one church which was gathered vnder the gouernmēt of Cornelius And therefore by that place of Cyprian it can not be gathered that there ought to be but one byshop in one citie if the multitude of professors require more and that all can not well gather them selues together in one congregation to be taught of one man much lesse can it serue to proue that there should be but one in a whole diocese or prouince I graunt that in later tymes and which went more from the simplicitie of the primitiue church they tooke occasion of these wordes to decree that there should be but one byshop in a citie but that can neuer be concluded of Cyprians wordes if it be vnderstanded why he vrgeth one byshop and one priest If therefore neyther word byshop nor priest do make any thing to proue an archbyshop nor thys worde church doth imply any prouince nor in these wordes one byshop one priest there is nothing lesse ment then that there should be one archbyshop ouer all the
we shall hold out of the church the vnwrytten verities of the papists for my part if it be true that you say I can not tell what to answer vnto them For our answere is to thē the apostles haue left a perfect rule of ordering the church wrytten and therfore we reiect their traditions if for no other cause yet because they are superfluous and more then neede Now this degree of archbishop being not only not mentioned in the scriptures but also manifestly oppugned it is too bold and hardy a speache that I say no more to fetch the petegree of the archbyshop from the apostles times and from the apostles them selues But all thys time M. Doctor hath forgotten hys question whych was to proue an archbyshop wheras all these testimonies whych he alledgeth make mētion only of a bishop and therfore thys may rather confirme the state of the byshop in this realme thē the archbyshop But in the answere vnto them it shall appeare that as there is not in these places so much as the name of an archbyshop mentioned so except only the name of a bishop there shal be found very little agreemēt betwene the bishops in those dayes and those whych are called byshops in our time with vs. And consequently although M. doctor thought wyth one whiting boxe to haue whited two wals by establishing our archbyshop and byshop by the same testimonies of the fathers yet it shal be plaine that in going about to defend both he left both vndefended Let vs therfore come first to examine Ieroms reasons why one must be ouer the rest for in the testimony of men that is only to be regarded whych is spoken eyther wyth some authority of the scripture or wyth some reason grounded of the scripture otherwise if he speake wythout eyther scripture or reason he is as easely reiected as alledged One sayth he being chosen to be ouer the rest bringeth remedy vnto schismes how so least euery man sayeth he drawing to him selfe to breake the church in peeces But I would aske if the church be not in as great danger when all is done at the pleasure and lust of one man and when one caryeth all into error as when one pulleth one peece wyth him another an other peece and the third hys partalso wyth him And it is harder to draw many into an error then one or that many should be caryed away by their affections then one whych is euident in water whych if it be but a little it is quickly troubled and corrupted but being much it is not so easely But by thys ecclesiasticall Monarchie all things are kept in peace Nay rather it hath bene the cause of discord and well spring of most horrible schisme as it is to be seene in the very decretals them selues And admit it were so yet the peace whych is wythout truth is more execrable thē a thousand contentions For as by striking of two flintes togither there commeth out fire so it may be that sometimes by contention the truth whych is hidden in a darke peace may come to light whych by a peace in naughtines and wickednes being as it were buryed vnder the ground doth not appeare If therfore superiority domination of one aboue the rest haue such force to keepe men from schismes when they be in the truth it hath as great force to kepe them togither in error and so besides that one is easier to be corrupted then many thys power of one bringeth as great incommodity in keping them in error if they fall into it as in the truth if they are in it Moreouer if it be necessary for the keping of vnity in the church of England that one archbyshop should be primate ouer all why is it not as meete that for the keping of the whole vniuersall church there should be one archbyshop or byshop ouer all and the like necessity of the byshop ouer all christendome as of the byshop of all England vnles peraduenture it be more necessary that there should be one byshop ouer the vniuersall church then ouer the church of England for as much as it is more necessary that peace should be kept and schismes be auoyded in the vniuersali church then in the particulare church of England If you say that the archbyshop of England hath hys authority graunted of the Prince the Pope of Rome will say that Constantine or Phocas whych was Emperor of all christendome did graunt him hys authority ouer all churches But you will say that it is a lie but the Pope will set as good a face and make as great a shew therin as you do in diuers poynts here But admit it to be a lie as in dede it is touching Constantine yet I say further that it may come to passe it hath ben that there may be one Christian Cesar ouer all the realmes whych haue churches What if he then will geue that authority to one ouer all that one king graunteth in hys land may any man accept and take at hys hand such authority and if it be not lawful for him to take that authority tel me what fault you can finde in him whych may not be found in them It will be sayd that no one is able to do the office of a byshop vnto all the whole church neither is there any one able to do the office of a byshop to the whole church of England For when those which haue ben most excellent in knowledge and wisedome and most ready and quicke in doing and dispatching matters being alwayes present haue found enough to do to rule and gouerne one seuerall congregation what is he whych absent is able to discharge hys duety toward so many thousand churches And if you take exception that although they be absent yet they may do by vnder ministers as by Archdeacons Chauncellors Officials Commissaries and such other kinde of people what doe you else say then the Pope whych sayeth that by hys Cardinalles and archbyshoppes and Legates and other suche like he doeth all things For wyth their hands he ruleth all and by their feete he is present euerye where and wyth their eyes he seeth what is done in all places Let them take heede therfore least if they haue a common defence wyth the Pope that they be not also ioyned nearer wyth hym in the cause then peraduenture they be aware of Truely it is against my will that I am constrained to make suche comparisons not that I thinke there is so great diuersity betweene the Popedome and the archbyshoppricke but because there being greate resemblance betweene them I meane hauing regarde to the bare functions wythout respecting the doctrine good or badde whych they vpholde that I say there being great resemblance betweene them there is yet as I am persuaded great difference betweene the parsons that execute them The whych good opinion conceyued of them I we moste humbly beseeche them by the glory of God by the libertye of
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
that in his garden he shall neuer finde the herbe that wil heale him And because that the scriptures when they make for our cause receiue this answer commonly that they serued but for the apostles times and M. Caluins authority will wey nothing as I thinke wyth M. Doctor when he is alledged by vs against hym I wil send hym to the Greke Scholiaste whych vpon this place of Titus sayth after this sort He would not speaking of s Paule haue the whole I le of Crete ministred and gouerned by one but that euery one should haue hys proper charge and care for so should Titus haue a lighter labor and the people that are gouerned should enioy greater attendance of the pastor whilest he that teacheth them doth not run about the gouernment of many congregations but attendeth vnto one and garnisheth that Now M. Doctor may see by this that Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste was not as he fansieth the archbyshop of all Crete but that he had one flocke whervpon for the time he was there he attended And that where it is sayd he ordained ministers it is nothing else but that he was the cheefe and the moderator in the election of the ministers as I haue declared before by many examples And it is no maruell although the rest graunted hym thys preheminence when he had both most excellent gifts and was a degree aboue the pastors being an Euangelist Vnto the place of Timothe where he willeth him not to admit an accusation against an elder vnder two or three witnesses I answer as I haue done before to the place of Titus that is that as the ordination of the pastors is attributed vnto Titus and Timothe because they gouerned and moderated that action and were the first in it so also is the deposing or other censures of them and that for as much as he wryteth hys epistles vnto Timothe Titus he telleth them how they should behaue them selues in their office and doth not shut out other from this censure and iudgement And it is more agreable to the inscription of the epistles that he should say admit not thou or ordain not thou wryting vnto one then if he should say ordaine not ye or admit not ye as if he should wryte to many for so should neyther the ending agree wyth the beginning nor the midst wyth them both And if this be a good rule that because Paul biddeth Timothe and Titus to iudge of the faults of the pastors and to ordain pastors therfore none else did but they Then whereas S. Paule biddeth Timothe that he should commaund teach that godlines is profitable to all things admonisheth him to be an example of the whole flocke by your reason he wil haue no other of the mynisters of Ephesus or of the I le of Creta to teach that doctrine or to be examples to their flockes an hundreth such things in the Epistles of Timothe and Titus which although they be there particularly directed vnto Timothe and Titus yet do they agree are common to them with all other mynisters yea sometimes vnto the whole flocke As for Epiphanius it is knowne of what authoritie he is in this place when as by Aerius sides he goeth about to pricke at the Apostle whilest he goeth about to confute the Apostle which maketh a distinction and difference betwene those which the Apostle maketh one that is a byshop and an elder and to spare the credite of Epiphanius it were better lay that opinion vpon some Pseudepiphanius that is to say counterfaite which we may do not without great probabilitie seeing Augustine sayth that the true Epiphanius vttereth all after a story fashion and doth not vse any disputation or reasoning for the truth agaynst the falshode and thys Epiphanius is very full of argumentes and reasons the choyse whereof M. Doctor hath taken And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluin and other godly wryters to proue that the mynister is vnderstanded by the word elder or presbiter he keepeth hys olde wont by bringing stickes into the woode and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth and yet with the mynister of the word he also vnderstandeth the elder of the church which ruleth and doth not labor in the word But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by presbiter the mynister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke for you vtter great skill your selfe in wryting which keepe no order but confound your reader in that thing which euen the common logicke of the countrey which is reason might haue directed you in For what a confusion of times is thys to begin with Cyprian and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome and after to the scripture and backe agayne to Ignatius that was before Cyprian which times are ill disposed of you and that in a matter wherein it stode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian hys place for when he sayth the byshop hath rule ouer all he meaneth no more all in the prouince then in all the worlde but meaneth that flocke congregation whereof he is byshop or mynister And when he calleth hym prince of the priestes although the title be to excessiue and bigge condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it or of the prouince then he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world but those fellow mynisters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation whereof he was byshop as the great churches haue for the most part both elders which gouerne only and mynisters also to ayde one an other and the principalitie that hee which they called the byshop had ouer the rest hath bene before at large declared But M. Doctor doth not remember that whilest hee thus reasoneth for the authoritie of the byshoppe hee ouerthroweth hys archbyshoppe quite and cleane for Ignatius will haue none aboue the byshop but Christ and hee will haue an archbyshop I see a man can not well serue two maisters but eyther he must displease the one and please the other or by pleasing of one offend the other For M. Doctor would fayne please and vpholde both and yet hys proufes are such that euery prop that he setteth vnder one is an axe to strike at the other But that M. D. delyteth alwayes wher he might fetch at the fountaine to be raking in ditches he needed not to haue gone to Iustin Martyr for Proestos when as S. Paule calleth the mynisters Elders by thys title And if thys place of Iustin make for an archbyshop then in stead of an archbyshop in euery prouince we
A REPLYE TO AN answere made of M. Doctor VVhitegifre AGAINSTE THE ADMONITION to the Parliament By T. C. ISAIE 61. ver 1. For Syons sake I will not holde my tonge and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forthe as the lighte and the saluation thereof be as a burning lampâ— Ver. 6. 7. Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers keepe not silence and geue hym no rest vntill he repayre and set vp Ierusalem the prayse of the world The Printer to the Reader SOme perhaps will maruel at the newe impression of thys boke and so muche the more will they wonder because they shall see that with great confidence boldnes notwythstanding our most gracious Princes late published proclamation procured rather by the Byshops then willingly sought for by her maiestie whose mildnes is such that she were easyer led to yelde to the proclamation of the highest then drawne to proclaime any thing against hym were it not for the subtil perswasions and wicked dealings of thys horned generation as by their false doctrine and cruell practises is to bee seene and by the speciall motion of Gods spirite and hys protection it hath bene both attempted and ended But cease to muse good christian reader whosoeuer thou art and learne to know that no lawes were they neuer so hard and seuere can put out the force of Gods spirite in hys children nor any cruelty though it stretched it selfe so far as to sheding of bloud from which kynde of dealing the Byshops are not cleare as the Prysons in London the Gatehouse at Westminster c. can witnesse the Lord for geue them and vs our sinnes can discharge the sayntes and seruauntes of the Lord from going forwarde in that which is good For the profite therefore of the godly and their instruction haue we hazarded our selues and as it were cast our selues into suche daungers and troubles as shal be layed vpon vs if we come into the haÌ„ds of the persecuting Bishops From the which pray the Lord if it be hys will to delyuer vs if not yet that it woulde please hym to geue vs both patience to beare what so euer he shall geue them power and lyberty to lay vpon vs and constancy also to contynue in hys truth and the profession thereof vnto our lyues end Farewell in the Lord and prayse God for thys worke I. S. Faultes escaped Page 2. line 14. for arme read army pa. 60. line 30. for thys spirite read hys spirite Page 39. line 41. for when read whom pa. 39. line 47. for against them read agaynst hym Page 26. line 37. for appose read oppose pa. 23. line 31. for ioipon read loipon and for proegoron read proegoros pa. 10. li. 41. for kairoutiche read kairou tyche pa. 69. for dioceris diocesis Page 9. line 16. put a comma at speache and a full poynt at vse Page 106. line 12. for to breake read doe breake Page 118. line 31. in the ende therof adde whych thyng also M. Doctor graunteth Page 127. line 6. for I beleue read I wil beleue page 127. line 8. For the apostles read For the false Apostles page 129. line 51. for and more in the read and more to in the. Page 130. line 41. for sole meditation read sole mediation page 137. line 49. for and that it is read and it is page 138. line 4. for ingenium read ingenuum page 138. line 14. for necessary read necessarily page 141. line 15. for there is greater read there is a greater Page 142. line 32. for and other read an other page 144. line 7. for herevpon read herevnto Page 144. line 51. for celebrating in one kinde read celebrating it in one kinde Page 146. line 18. for the other vsed in the other vsed only in pa. 160. li. 23. for tute read true Page 163. line 43. for there were many read there were very many page 174. line 3. for Ambose read Ambrose page 188. line 29. for in England or in Ireland read and in England Page 189. line 8. for vicarse read vicares page 1â—8 in the margent for Concil Valense reade Concil Vasense page 201. in the margent adde to that of August lib. 2. de consolatione mortuorum cap. 5. page 207. line 42. read for catexochen read cathexochen Page 205. line 21. for possessed read dysposesssed Page 210. line 46. and other thyngs and do other thyngs pa. 214. li. 15. for iabon read labon Page 215. line 20. for or so much deceyued of read or so much as deceiued A short Table of the princypall poyntes entreated of in thys boke made according to the order of the Alphabet A  M. Doctors Anacletus counterfait 92. M. Doctors Anicetus counterfait 92. There are now no Apostles 63. The churche was established in the Apostles tymes 51. Apostles appoynted no archbyshoppes but byshoppes 92. Corruptions entred into the church immediatly after the times of the apostles 96. Apparell of the mynisters 71. c. Apparell of mourners is either hypocriticall or els daungerous to prouoke excessiue sorrow 201. Archbyshops archdeacons names vnlawfull 82. c. Archbyshops names are not so auncient as they be supposed 88. c. Archbyshops and archdeacons offyces vnlawfull 83. c. Archbishops offices as they were in times past haue now no place with vs and of the small prerogatiue which they had then aboue other byshops 122. c. Archbyshops not spoken of by Cyprian nor bishops such as oures is but of S. Paules bishops 98. c. Archdeacons in times past how much they differed from oures now 96. Arguments of authority negatiuely or affirmatiuely out of the scripture good the vse of theÌ„ when they be drawne from men 25. B  QuestioÌ„s about Baptisme answered 172. c. QuestioÌ„s ministred to infaÌ„ts in Baptisme 169 Crossing in Baptisme wherof it rose 170. c Basile a poore Metropolitane 94. Byshops in tymes past most vnlike oure byshops now 106. c. General faults of the Boke of coÌ„mon prayer 131. Prescript forme of prayer at Burials inconuenient 200. Les lamenting the dead and les charges about Burials permitted vnto vs then to those vnder the law 200. c. Buryall sermons inconuenient 201. c. Buryall places where they were in the olde churches 69. C  Cathedral churches in times past those which are now greatly differ 204. Cathedral churches rightly called dens do hurt the good which they might do if they were conuerted into colledges or houses of study 205. â— â–ª Ceremonies must be tried by rules in the scripture and by which 27. Ceremonies making in the church belongeth vnto Ecclesiasticall persons 192. Difference betwene placing Ceremonies in the church which were not besâ—â—e tollerating those which are already placed 25. Chauncelers iurisdiction vnlawfull 188. c. Church hath not power to ordayne whether preaching or ministring of the sacramentes shal be priuate or publike 28. Church must not be framed vnto the common wealth but the
sette downe hys iudgement before needed not to haue repeated it here agayne But the Greeke wordes you say catakyrieuousin kai catexousiazousin doe signifie to rule wyth oppression and why may not I saye that thys preposition cata doth not signifie heere a peruersnesse of rule but an absolutenesse and a full power and iurisdiction as catamathein catalambanein is not to learne or to perceyue euilly and peruersly but to learne exactly and to perceiue throughly and perfectly but what neede we to followe coniectures in so playne a matter when as Saint Luke vseth the simple wordes without any composition of exousiazein Kai Kyrieuein doe you not perceyue that the preposition wherein you put so great confidēce deceiueth you besides the manifest vntruth you commit in saying that all three Euangelistes haue katexousiazousin katakyrieuousin Furthermore you say that our sauioure Christ sayeth not that no man shall be great amongst them but he that desireth to be great amongst them He had sayd so before when he had sayd it shall not be so amongst you and therefore needed not to repeate it and yet an other Euangelist sayeth not he that desireth to be great but let the greatest among you be as the least VVherby he doth not reprehend only the desire of being great but will not haue them to be one aboue an other To the last reason Last of all you conclude that our sauiour Christ in the 20. of Mathew reproueth the ambition of the sonnes of zebede and in the 22. of S. Luke all the rest of the Apostles I graunte you he dothe so and that coulde not be done better then in tellyng them that they desired things not meete for them and which woulde not stande with their calling And if as you say the ambition only was reprehended and the desire of rule to oppresse others wyth the answere you attribute to our sauioure is not so fitte For they myght haue replyed and sayde that he forbad tyrannicall rule and oppression of their inferioures but they desired that which was a moderate and well ruled gouernment And semeth it vnto you a probable thing that S. Luke meaneth tyrantes and oppressors when as he sayth they are called beneficiall or gracious Lordes men doe not vse to call oppressors liberall or bountifull Lordes Neyther is it to be thought of all the Apostles that they desired rule one ouer an other to the ende that they would vse crueltie or tyrannie or oppression one ouer an other for that were to doe them great iniurie Besides that it is sayde that the rest of the disciples disdayned at the two brethren whyche they would not haue done if they had had any purpose or mynde to haue oppressed them For then they would haue contemned them rather then haue disdayned them if they had broken out into suche grose faultes For Aristotle teacheth that nemesis which is the same that aganactesis is the verbe whereof the Euangelist vseth is agaynst those that are supposed of them that beare the disdayne to be lifted vp higher and into better estate then they are worthy of whych agreeth wyth that interpretation whyche I haue alleaged and can not agree wyth the other whych you set downe For who speaking properly would speake after thys sort The residue of the Apostles disdayned at the two brethren or thought them vnworthy that they should beare tyrannicall rule ouer them To the section that beginneth touching the place in 23. of Mathew and so vntill howe aptly Concerning the exposition and sence of that place I agree with you and suppose that it is quoted of the authors of the admonition rather to note the ambition of certayne which gape greedely at these byshopprickes which we haue to the ende they mighte be saluted by the name of Lordes and honoures then to proue that one minister should not haue dominion ouer an other And therefore although these places be agaynst no lawfull authoritie of any estate or condition of men yet as they are aptly alledged against the bishop of Rome the one against his estate and authoritie simply the other agaynst hys tyrannie and euill vsage of hym selfe in that authoritie so it may be aptly alleaged agaynst any other which shall fall into the like fault of the byshop of Rome The purenesse that we boast of is the innocencie of our sauioure Christ who shall couer all our vnpurenesse not impute it vnto vs And for so much as fayth * purifyeth the hart we doubt not but God of his goodnes hath begon our sanctification and hope that he will make an ende of it euen vntill the day of our Lord Iesus Albeit we holde dyuers poyntes more purely then they doe which impugne them yet I know none that by comparison hath eyther sayd or written that all those that thinke as we doe in those poyntes are more holy and more vnblameable in life then any of those that thinke otherwise If we say that in those poynts which we holde from them we thinke soundlier then they doe we are ready to proue it If we say also that we lyue not so offensiuely to the world commonly by getting so many lyuinges into our handes as would finde foure or fiue good learned able ministers all the worlde will beare vs witnes Other purenes we take not vpon vs And therefore as the name was first by the Papistes maliciously inuented so is it of you very vnbrotherly confirmed Whereas you say that they are Puritanes which suppose the church which they haue deuised to be without all impuritie if you meane without sinne you doe notably slaunder them and it is already answered If you meane that those are Puritanes or Catharans which do set forth a true and perfect patern or platforme of reforming the church then the marke of thys heresy reacheth vnto those which made the booke of common prayer which you say is a perfect and absolute rule to gouerne this church wherein nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer nor too much As for the Catharans which were the same that are otherwise called Nouatians I know no suche opynion they had they whome you charge are as farre from their corruption as you be An answere to that which is contayned in the. 20. 21. and 22. page vntill Now if eyther godly Councels YOu geue occasion of suspition that your end will be skarce good which haue made so euill a beginning For whereas you had gathered out of the Admonition that nothing should be placed in the Church but that God hath in hys word commaunded as though the wordes were not playne enough you wil geue them some light by your exposition And what is that you answere that it is as much as though they would say nothing is to be tollerated in the church of Christe touching eyther doctryne order ceremonies disciplyne or gouernment except it be expressed in the word of god Is thys to interprete is it all one to say nothing
oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
eldershyp excommunication and the office of Deacons as it is thought for that the Saduces of whome so often mention is made in the gospell are thought to haue had that offyce to prouide for the poore for those that know the Hebrew tongue doe vnderstand that tsaddikim and tsedacah do not only signifie iustice and iust men but also almes and almes men I say these and others more translated from the law vnto the gospell but neyther you nor your Clement shall euer be able to shew that the Lord euer translated any thing from Gentelisme into the gospell We reade in the Actes that all the Gentiles were commaunded to conforme them selues vnto the Iewes in the abstayning from bloude and strangled meate for a tyme but we can neuer finde that the Iewes were commaunded to conforme them to the Gentiles in their ceremonies the reason wherof is because the one was sometymes the law of God and therefore he that had conscience in it was to be borne with and the other came from men and out of their forge which the Lord would neuer geue so much honor vnto as to make other men by any meanes subiect vnto them But what if there were no such offices amongst the Gentiles Paganes as Archiflamines or Protoflamines whereof before I shew the coniectures which I haue I must geue the gentle reader to vnderstand that I am not ignorant that there are diuers which say there were such offices amongst the Gentiles and namely heere in Englande that there were 25. Flamines and three Archiflamines wherof were made three archbyshops of London Canterbury and Yorke and. 25. Bishops as Platine hath in the chapter Eleutherius And Galfridus Monemutensis in hys seconde booke and first chapter And Lumbarde in hys fourthe booke speaketh of it as of a generall thing that was in all places where Paganisme was But if so be that the relygion of other Paganes dyd follow and was lyke vnto that of the Romaines which is very probable they being then the rulers of the whole worlde in a maner vnto whose example all men doe lightly conforme them selues euen without commaundement then there is great likelyhoode there were no such archiflamines or protoflamines out of Tullie which sheweth that there was amongst the Romaines dyuers kindes of priestes whereof some were called flamines of a seuerall attire which they ware alwayes of their heades other pontifices and a thirâ—â—â— sort were called Salij and that the cheefe of these Flamines was called flâ—meâ—â—â—alâ—s who was also distinguished from the rest vp a white hatte but of any archiflamines or protoflamines he maketh no mention at all and therefore it is lyke that there was neuer any such office amongst the Paganes And if there were I haue shewed how wycked it is to say that Peter framed the mynisterie of the gospell by it Now let it be seene of all men how strongly you haue concluded that the names of archbyshoppes are not antichristian when as it is most certen that he was a piller of antichrist vppon whome your reason is grounded The tymes wherein Volusianus lyued declare suffyciently how little credite is to be geuen to hys testimonie which were when the masse had place if not so wycked as it was after yet notwithstanding farre differing from the simplicitie of the supper which was left by our sauiour Christ And Eusebius is of more credite in thys then Volusianus which sayth of the reporte of Dionisius byshop of Corinthe that S. Paule made Dionisius Areopagita byshop of Athens he sayth not archbyshop but byshop although he speake twise of it And in the preface before hys workes it is fayde that after hys conuersion he went to Rome to Clement and was sent with others of Clement into the West partes and that he came to Paris and was there executed whether so euer of these opinions is true that falleth whyche Volusianus affirmeth And if eyther Volusianus or you will haue vs beeleue that Dyonisius Areopagita was archbyshoppe of Athens you must shew some better authoritie then Eusebius or Dyonisius byshop of Corinthe and then your cause shall haue at the least some more coloure of truthe Erasmus followeth which sayth Titus was archbyshop of Crete whom I coulde answere with hys owne wordes for I am sure he will graunt me that Titus Timothe had one office the one in Ephesus the other in Crete but it appeareth by Erasmus hys owne wordes that Timothe was but byshop of Ephesus therefore Titus was but byshop of Crete For Erasmus in hys argument vpon the first Epistle of Timothe sayth that S. Paule did enfornie Timothe of the office of a byshop and of the discipline of the church If eyther he had bene an archbyshop or an archbyshop had bene so necessary as it is made hee would haue instructed hym in that also And I pray you tell me whether Erasmus or the Greeke Scholiast be more to bee beeleeued in thys poynte out of whome is taken that whyche is in the latter ende of the Epystles to Tymothe and Tytus where they bothe are called the first elected Byshoppes that euer were eyther of Ephesus or Creta For my parte I thyncke they were neyther Byshoppes nor Archbyshoppes but Euangelistes as shall appeare afterwardes But it maye be suffycient to haue sette agaynste Erasmus authoritie the authoritie of the Scholiaste And if heere you will cauill and say that the Scholiaste whych sayeth hee was Byshoppe denyeth not but that he also was an Archbyshoppe because an archbyshop is a byshop it may be answered casely that the Scholiaste dyd not speake nor wryte so vnproperly as to call them by the generall name of byshop whome he myght as easely haue called if the truth woulde haue let hym by a more proper and particular name of archbyshop And further in thys dyuision of the mynisters the archbyshop and the byshop are members of one dyuision and therefore one of them can not be affirmed and sayde of an other for that were contrary to the nature of a true dyuision And yet I haue a further answere bothe to Erasmus and Volusianus and whatsoeuer other haue written after thys sort that they speake gaue titles to those men they wrote of not according to that which they were but according to the custome and manner of that age wherein they wrote And so we may read that Vincentius and Nicephorus wryting of Victor speake farre otherwise of hym then Eusebius doth which notwithstanding wrote of the same man which they dyd The one calleth Victor the Pope of Rome And the other sayeth that in glory he passed all the byshops before hym which Eusebius neuer maketh any word of Euen so Volusianus and Erasmus lyuing in the tymes when as they which were the most esteemed in the ministerie were called archbyshops call Titus and Dyonisius archbyshops vpon whome depended the cheefe care of those churches which they gouerned There followeth Anacletus an other of these witnesses which
of the Pope of Rome as it is for M. doctor Whitgift to alledge the. 25. 26. 27. to proue the name of archbyshop archdeacon patriarke for they are all of one stampe and haue lyke authoritie I feare greatly some craftye dissembling papist had hys hand in this boke who hauing a great deale of rotten stuffe whych he coulde not vtter vnder hys owne name being already lost brought it vnto the author heereof whych hath vpon his credite without further examination set it to sale Peraduenture you will thinke scorne to be censured and reprehended of a poore minister of the countrey and therfore I will turne you ouer for your lesson in thys behalfe vnto the bishop of Salisburie in hys Replie against M. Harding touching the article of the supremacie If all shoulde be allowed of that S. Ambrose alloweth of then besides other things whych he holdeth corruptly the marriage of the ministers should go very hard But it is worthy to be obserued wyth what words Amb. doth allowe of the archbishop that all men may vnderstande howe lowe it goeth wyth M. Doctor for his defence of the archbishop and howe the archbishop is so out of credite that there can not be gotten any to be surety for hys honesty Ambrose complaining of the ministers or bishops in those dayes sayeth it a man aske them who preferred them to be priestes answere is made by and by that the archbyshop for an hundreth shillings ordained me bishop to whome I gaue a hundreth shillings that I might get the fauor to be bishop whych if I had not giuen I had not bene byshop And afterward he sayeth that this greeued him that the archbyshop ordained byshops carnally or for some carnall respecte And thys is all the allowance that Ambrose sheweth of an archbyshoppe Your archbishop taketh all things in good parte so that his very dispraise he expoundeth to hys commendation And there is great likelyhode that the archbyshop whych Ambrose maketh mention of was no other then he whych for the time ruled the action wherin byshops were ordained and after the action ended had no more authoritye then the rest And I am moued so to thincke First because it is not like that one only ordained byshops being contrary to the olde Canons of the best councelles but that there were other and that thys whome Ambrose calleth archbyshop dyd gather the voyces c. Secondly because it was very vnlike that there was any absolutely aboue S. Ambrose in those partes where he complaineth of euill byshops or ministers made Thirdly for that Ambrose in an other place whych you after cite deuiding all the church into the cleargye and laitye dothe subdeuide the cleargy into bishops elders and deacons and therfore it is not like that there was any which had any continuall function of archbyshop But as he was called choregos or leader of the dauÌ„ce whych commeth first and after comming in againe in the second or third place is no more so called so that byshop was called archbyshop whych for the time present did gather the voyces of the rest of the byshoppes whych he by by layde downe wyth the dissoluing of the meeting And that this is not my coniecture only that there was no ordinarye or absolute archbyshop let the Centuries be seene whych alledge that place of Ambrose to proue that the office of an archbishop was not then come into the church whych was 400 yeares after Christ and more also Basile you say the greate Metropolitane of Cappadocia I haue shewed what the worde metropolitane signifieth and howe there was not then suche a metropolitane as we haue now and as the admonition speaketh against You play as he which is noted as none of the wisest amongst the marchants which thought that euery shyp that approched the hauen was his shippe for so you thinke that wheresoeuer you reade metropolitane or archbyshop forthwith you thinke there is your metropolitane or your archbyshop whereas it shall appeare that besides the name they are no more like then a byshop wyth vs is like a minister I can not tell whether you would abuse your reader heere wyth the fallacion of the accent because thys worde Great is so placed betweene Basile and metropolitane that it may be as wel referred to the metropolitane as to Bastle and so you hauing put no comma it seemeth you had as lâ—eue haue your reader read great metropolitane as great Basil But that the simpler sort be not deceiued therby it is not out of the way to let the reader vnderstand what a great metropolitane thys was whych * appeareth for that when he was threatned by the magistrate confiscation of hys goodes answeared that he was not afraid of the threatnings and that all hys goodes were a very few bokes and an olde gowne suche were then those Metropolitanes vnder whose shadowes M. Doctor goeth aboute to shroude all this pompe and princely magnificence of oure archbyshoppes As for Simeon archbyshop of Seleucia I will not deny but at that time was the name of archbyshops for then Sathan had made throughe the titles of archbishop primate patriarch as it were three stayers wherby antichrist might clime vp into hys curssed seate Notwithstanding there wanted not good decrees of godly councelles whych did strike at these proude names and went aboute to keepe them downe but the swelling waters of the ambition of diuers coulde not by any bankes be kept in whych hauing once broken oute in certaine places afterwardes couered almost the face of the whole earthe This endeuoure of godly men may appeare in the councell of Carthage whych decreed that the bishop of the first seat shoulde not be called exarchon ton hieron e akron ierea e toiouton tipore that is either the chefe of the priestes or the high priest or any such thing by whych wordes any such thing he shutteth out the name of archbyshop and all such hautie titles The same decree also was made in the Affricane councell and if you saye that it was made against the Pope of Rome or to forbid that any man should be called archbyshop shewe me where there was either byshop of Rome or any other that euer made any suche title or chalenge to be the generall byshop of all at that time when this councell of Carthage was holden when as the first of those whych did make any suche chalenge was the byshop of Constantinople whych notwithstanding chalenged not the preheminence first ouer all but that he might ordaine byshoppes of Asia Pontus Thracia whych were before appoynted by their Sinodes and thys was in the councell of Chalcedon whych was long after that councell of Carthage before remembred For to proue the lawfulnesse of the name of an archdeacon the antiquitye the necessitye of it the testimonies of foure are broughte which neither speake of their lawfulnes nor of their necessity and they say not in deede so muche as God saue them and two of these
byshops and cleargie in a prouince and if Cyprian will neyther allow of the title of archbyshop nor of the authoritie and office but in playne wordes speaketh agaynst both we may conclude that M. Doctor hath done very vnaduisedly to lay so great waight of the archbyshop vppon S. Cyprians shoulders that wâ—ilnot only not beare any thing of hym but which hath done all that coulde be to make hym goe a foote and hand in hand with hys fellowes There are other reasons which M. Doctor vseth as thys a notable one S. Cyprian speaketh not of the vsurped power of the byshop of Rome therefore he speaketh of the office of an archbyshop and metropolitane It is hard to call thys argument to any head of fallation for it hath not so much as a colour of a reason I thincke it can deceiue no body but your self An other reason is that all the godlyest best learned meÌ„ do expound the place of Cyprian in the 3. epist. of the first booke of an archbyshop The vanitie of thys saying that the godly learned wryters so expound it I haue shewed before and heere it commeth to be considered agayne I will not say that no godly nor learned wryter expoundeth the place of Cyprian of the authoritie of an archbishop But first I desire M. Doctor to set downe but one and then I will leaue it to thy consyderation gentle reader to thincke whether M. Doctor hath red any learned or godly mans exposition to be suche when he hath not red those which are nearest hym I meane our owne countrey men I say he hath not red them because I woulde thinke charitably so of hym rather then that he shoulde haue red them and yet speake vntruely of them and father those things of them which they neuer speake M. Iewell the byshop of Sarisburie expounded thys place and yet dyd neuer expounde it of the office and authoritie of an archbyshop of all the byshops and clergie of the prouince but cleane contrarywise applyeth it to the authoritie that euery byshop had in hys diocesse hys wordes are these Now therefore to draw that thing by violence to one only byshop that is generally spoken of all byshops is a guilefull fetch to misseleade the reader and no simple nor playne dealing Heere you see that M. Iuel doth not vnderstande thys of any archbyshop but of euery byshop M. Nowel Deane of Poules hauing occasion to speake of this place sayth on thys sort So that when he speaketh meaning Cyprian of one byshop one iudge in the churche for the time or of the byshop whych is one and ruleth the church absolutely he meaneth euery byshop in his owne diocesse wythout exception If he speake specially he meaneth the byshop of the citye or diocese wherof he entreateth whether it be the byshop of Rome Carthage or any other place M. Fore also expoundeth thys of euery byshop wythin hys owne churche or diocese You heare the iudgement of these three wryters that can not picke out neyther the name nor the office of an archbyshop out of Cyprians place and yet I thinke you wil not deny but these were learned and godly wryters Now I haue shewed you three I aske once againe of you one godlye and learned wryter that expoundeth it as you doe And by thys time I suppose all men vnderstande what a small friend S. Cyprian is eyther to the name or office of an archbyshop Let vs heare whether Ierome make any more for the archbyshop then did Cyprian The Hebrues doe deriue the name of time of a verbe whych signifyeth to corrupt because in dede it doth corrupt all and as the times are so are meÌ„ which liue in them that euen very good men carye the note of the infection of the times wherin they liue and the streame of the corruption therof being so vehemeÌ„t and forcible doth not only driue before it light things but it cateth also and weareth the very hard and stony rockes and therfore there is not to be loked for such sinceritie at Ierome his hand whych we found in S. Cyprian considering that he liued some ages after Cyprian what time sathan had a great deale more darkned the cleare light of the sonne of the gospell then it was in S. Cyprians time For as those that came nearest vnto the apostles times because they were nearest the light â–ª did see best so those that were further of from these lightes had vntill the time of the manifestation of the sonne of perdition their heauens more darke and cloudy and consequeÌ„tly did see more dimly whych is diligently to be obserued of the reader bothe the better to vnderstand the state of thys question and all other controuersies whych lie betweene vs and the papistes And although Ierome besides his other faultes might haue also in thys matter spoken more soundly yet we shall easely perceiue that he is a great deale further from eyther the title or office of an archbyshop or else from the authority that a byshop hath with vs then he is from the simplicity of the ministery which ought to be and is commended vnto vs by the worde of God. And heere I must put M. Doctor in remembrance howe vnfitly he hath dedicated his boke vnto the churche whych hath so patched it and peeced it of a number of shreds of the doctors that a sentence of the scripture eyther truely or falsely alledged is as it were a Phenix in thys boke If he would haue had the church beleue hym he oughte to haue setled their iudgement and grounded their faith vpon the scriptures whych are the only foundations whervpon the church may build Nowe he doth not only not geue them grounde to stand of but he leadeth them into wayes whych they can not folowe nor come after him For except it be those whych are learned and besides haue the meanes and abilitye to haue the bokes whych are heere cited which are the least and smallest portion of the church how can they know that these things be true whych are alledged and as I haue said if they could know yet haue they nothing to stay them selues vpon and quiet their conscience in allowing that which M. Doctor would so faine haue them like of Therefore he might haue much more fitly dedicated his booke vnto the learned and riche whych haue furnished libraries Ierome sayeth that at the first a byshoppe and an Elder whych you call priest were all one but afterward through factions schismes it was decreed that one should rule ouer the rest Now I say against this order that the bishop shoulde beare rule ouer all that which our sauioure Christ sayth vnto the Pharises from the beginning it was not so and therefore I require that the first order may stande which was that a byshop elder were all one And if you place so great authoritie agaynst the institution of God in a mortall man heare what Tertullian sayth vnto you
the churche purchased by the precious bloude of oure sauioure Christe and by their owne saluation that they woulde not deceiue by retaining so harde suche excessiue and vniust dominion ouer the church of the liuing God. But Ierome sayth that this distinction of a byshop a minister or elder was from s Marke his time vnto Dyonisius time wherby M. doctor would make vs beleeue that Marke was the author of this distinction But that can not be gathered by Ieromes words For besides that things being ordred then by the suffrages of the ministers and elders it might as it falleth out of tētimes be done without the approbation of s Marke the words from Marke may be rather taken exclusiuely to shut oute S. Marke and the time wherin he liued then inclusiuely to shut hym in the time wherin thys distinction rose How so euer it be it is certaine that S. Marke did not distinguish make those thyngs diuers whych the holy ghoste made all one For then whych the Lord forbid he shoulde make the story of the gospell whych he wrote suspected Againe it is to be obserued that Ierome sayeth it was so in Alexandria signifying therby that in other churches it was not so And in deede it may appeare in diuers places of the auncient fathers that they confounded priest byshop toke them for all one as Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Anicete Pius Telesphorus Higinus xystus presbyterous cai prostantas elders and presidents Cyprian confoundeth priest and byshop in the epistles before recited so doth Ambrose in the place alledged before by M. doctor and yet it is one thyng with vs to be a priest as M. doctor speaketh and an other thing to be a bishop Ierusalem was a famous church so was Rome as the apostle witnesseth so was Antioche and others where also were great contētions both in doctrine and otherwise and yet for auoiding of contention and schisme there there was no one that was ruler of the rest therfore we ought rather to folowe these churches being many in keping vs to the institution of the apostles then Alexandria being but one church and departing from that institution and if there had bene any one set ouer all the rest in other places it would haue made much for the distinction that Ierome had recited But against thys distinction of s Ierome I will vse no other reason thē that whych Ierome vseth in the same epistle to Euagrius Ierome in that epistle taketh vp very sharply the archd that he preferred hym selfe before the elder the reason is because by the scripture the deacon is inferior vnto the elder Now therfore Ierome him selfe confessing that by the scripture a byshop an elder are equall by Ieromes owne reason the byshop is to be sharply reprehended because he lifteth hym selfe aboue the elder But what helpeth it you that there was a byshop of Alexandria whych vrge an archbyshop or what auauntageth it you that there was one cheefe called a byshop in euery seuerall congregation whych would proue that there ought to be one byshop chefe ouer a thousand congregations What could haue bene brought more strong to pull downe the archbyshop out of hys throne then that whych Ierome sayeth there when he affirmeth that the byshop of the obscurest village or hamlet hath as great authority and dignity as the byshop of Rome Erasmus did see this and sayd eironeuomenos that is iestingly that Ierome spake that of the byshops of hys times but if he had sene how the metropolitanes of our age excell other bishops he wold haue spoken otherwise And what could haue bene more fit to haue confuted the large dominion and superiority of our realme then that that Ierome sayth when he appoynteth the byshops sea in an vplandishe towne or in a pore village or hamlet declaring therby that in euery towne there was a byshop and that the bishop that he speaketh of differeth nothing at all from an elder but that the byshop had the ordaining of the ministers whervpon it doth appeare which I promised to shew that by this place of Ierome there is neither name of archbyshop nor so much as the shadow of his authority and that the byshops whych are now haue besides the name no similitude almost with the byshops that were in Ieromes time as for his reason ad Luciferanos it is the same whych he hath ad Euag. and to Titus and is already answeared What is that to the purpose that Chrysostom sayth there must be degrees who denyeth that there are degrees of functions we confes there is and ought to be a degree of pastors an other of doctors the third of those whych are called elders the fourth of deacons And where he sayth there should be one degree of byshop another of a minister an other of the lay man what proueth that for the office of an archbyshop whych is your purpose to shew how often times must you be called ad Rhombum And that he meaneth nothingles then to make any such difference betwene a byshop and a minister as is wyth vs which you wold faine make your reader beleue I will send you to Chrysostome vpon the third chapter 1. ep to Timothe where he sayeth The office of a byshop differeth little or nothing from an elders and a little after that a byshop differeth nothyng from an elder or minister but by the ordination only Still M. doctor goeth forward in killing a dead man that is in confuting that whych all men condemne and prouing that whych no man denyeth that there must be superiority amongst men and that equality of all men a like confoundeth all and ouerthroweth all Thys is a notable argument there must be some superior among men ergo one minister must be superior to an other Again there must be in the ecclesiastical fūctions some degrees Ergo there must be an archbishop ouer the whole prouince or a bishop ouer the whole diocese And all be it M. doctor taketh great paine to proue that whych no man denyeth yet he doth it so euill fauoredly and so vnfitly as that if a man had no better proufes then he bringeth the degrees of the ecclesiasticall functions myght fall to the ground For heere to proue the degrees of the ecclesiasticall functions he bryngeth in that that Chrysostom sayth there must be magistrate and subiect hym that commaundeth and hym that obeyeth The most therefore that he can conclude of thys for the mynistery is that there must be minister that shall rule and people that shall be obedient and heereby he can not proue that there should be any degrees amongst the ministers and ecclesiasticall gouernors vnles he will say peraduenture that as there are vnder Magistrates and a king aboue them all so there should be vnder mynisters and one mynister aboue them all But he must remember that it is not necessary in a common wealth that there should be one ouer all for that there are other
Egipt cryed in the councell of Calcedon that he was no bishop it is to be obserued that which the Emperoures Theodosius and Valentinian wryte vnto Dioscorus bishop of Alexandria that he had commaunded Theodoret byshop of Cyrus that he should kepe hym selfe vnto hys owne church only wherby it appeareth that he medled in moe churches then was mete he should Besides that wanteth not suspition the he speaketh this of him selfe especially when he sayth the there was not in all those 800. churches one tare the is one hypocrite or euil maÌ„ Now that it may appeare what great lykelyhoode there is betwene thys Theodoret and our Lord byshops and archbyshops it is to be considered which he wryteth of hym selfe in the Epistle vnto Leo that is that he hauing bene 26. yeares byshop was knowne of all that dwelt in those partes that he had neuer house of hys owne nor field nor halfepennie not so much as a place to be buryed in but had willingly contented hym selfe with a poore estate belyke he had a very leane archbyshoppricke And if the fat morsels of our byshopprickes archbishopprickes were taken employed to their vses of maintenance of the pore of the mynisters and of the vniuersities which are the seede of the mynisterie I thincke the heate of the disputation and contention for archbyshops and bishops would be cooled Now good reader thou hearest what M. Doctor hath bene able to take together out of the olde fathers which he sayth are so playne in thys matter and yet can shew nothing to the purpose Heare also what he sayth out of the wryters of our age all which he sayth except one or two are of hys iudgement and allow well of thys distinction of degrees Maister Caluin first is cited to proue those offices of archbyshop primate patriarche the names whereof he can not abyde and as for hym he approueth only that there should be some â–ª which when difficult causes arise which can not bee ended in the particulare churches might referre the matters to sinodes and prouinciall councels and which myght do the offices which I haue spoken of before of gathering voyces c. But that he lyketh not of those dominations and large iurisdictions or at all of the byshoppes or archbyshops which we haue now it may appeare playnly enough both in that place when as he will haue hys wordes drawen to no other then the olde byshoppes shutting out thereby the byshoppes that now are as also in other places and namely vpon the Philippians where reasoning agaynst thys distinction betwene pastor and byshop and shewing that geuing the name of byshop to one man only in a church was the occasion why he afterward vsurped domynation ouer the rest he sayth after thys sort In deede I graunt sayth he as the dispositions and manners of men are order can not stande amongst the mynisters of the woorde vnlesse one be ouer the rest I meane sayth he of euery seuerall and singuler body not of a whole prouince much lesse of the whole worlde Now if you will needes haue M. Caluins archbyshop you must not haue hym neyther ouer a prouince nor diocese but only ouer one singuler and particuler congregation How much better therefore were it for you to seeke some other shelter against the storme then maister Caluins which will not suffer you by any meanes to couer your selfe vnder hys winges but thrusteth you out alwayes as soone as you enter vpon him forceably But heere I can not let passe M. Doctors ill dealing which recyting so much of maister Caluin cutteth hym of in the waste and leaueth quite out that which made agaynst hym that is which maister Caluin â—ayth in these wordes Although sayth he in thys disputacion it may not be passed ouer that this office of archbyshop or patriarke was most rarely and seldome vsed which dealing semeth to proceede of a very euill conscience Then followeth Hemingius who you say approueth these degrees of archbishop metropolitane byshop archdeacon for so you must needes meane when you say he approueth these degrees or els you say nothing for there vpon is the question Now how vntruely you speake let it be iudged by that which followeth * First he sayth that our sauiour Christ in S. Luke distinguisheth and putteth a difference betwene the office of a Prince and the office of the minister of the church leauing domynion to the Princes and taking it altogether from the mynisters Here you see not only how he is agaynst you in your exposition in the place of S. Luke which wold haue it nothing else but a prohibition of ambitioÌ„ but also how at a word he cutteth the throte of your archbyshop and byshop as it is now vsed And afterward speaking of the churches of Denmarke he sayth they haue Christ for their head for the outwarde discipline they haue magistrates to punish with the sword for to exercise the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne they haue bishops pastors doctors which may keepe men vnder with the word without vsing any corporall punishment Here is no mention of archbyshops Primates metropolitanes And although he sheweth that they kepe the distinction betwene byshops and ministers against whych there hath bene before spoken yet he sayth that the authority which they haue is as the authority of a father not as the power of a maister whych is far otherwise heere For the condition of many seruaunts vnder their maisters is much more free then the condition of a minister vnder hys byshop And afterward he sheweth wherin that authority or dignity of the byshop ouer the minister lyeth that is in exhorting of him in chiding of hym as he doth the lay people and yet he will haue also the minister although not with such authority after a modest sort to do the same vnto the byshop And so he concludeth that they retain these orders notwithstanding the anabaptists Now let the reader iudge whether Hemingius be truely or faithfully alledged or no or whether Hemingius do say that they haue in their church archbishops primates metropolitanes archdeacons or whether the byshops in the churches of Denmarke are any thing like oures For I will omit that he speaketh there against all pomp in the ministery all worldly superiority or highnes because I loue not to wryte out whole pages as M. Doctor doth out of other mens wrytings to helpe to make vp a boke M. doctor closeth vp this matter wyth M. Foxe but eyther for feare that the place should be found that there might be answer or for feare that M. Foxe should giue me the solution whych hath giuen you the obiection he wold neither quote the place of the boke nor the boke it self he hauing wrytten diuers You caÌ„ not speake so much good of M. Foxe whych I will not willingly subscribe vnto And if it be any declaration of good will and of honor that one beareth to an other to read that whych he wryteth I thinke I haue
whether a man consider the schollers that learne or the scholemaisters whych teach or the orders appoynted for the gouernment of the scholes they shall be found to be rather ciuill then ecclesiasticall and therfore can not come in stead of any ecclesiasticall ministery If the byshop do meane that they come in place of the gift of tongues and knowledge of the gospell that was first geuen miraculously I graunt it and then it maketh nothing to this question As for byshops they can not come in place of apostles or prophets for as much as they were when the Apostles Euangelists and Prophets were and are one of those ministeries whych S. Paul mentioneth in the. 4. to the Ephesians being the same that is the pastor There remaineth therfore the archbyshop whych if he came in place of the Prophets and apostles as the byshop sayeth howe commeth it to pas that the byshop sayeth by and by oute of the authoritye of Erasmus that Titus was an archbyshop for at that time there was bothe apostles prophets and Euangelists If it be so therfore that the archbyshop must supply the want of apostles c. howe commeth it to pas he wayteth not hys time whilest they were deade but commeth in like vnto one whych is borne oute of time and like the vntimely and hasty frute whych is seldome or neuer wholesome And for one to come into the apostles or prophets place requireth the authority of him whych ordained the apostles c. whych is the Lord and hys institution in hys word whych is that whych we desire to be shewed But heereof I haue spoken before at large The necessity of Deanes I do not acknowledge and I haue already spoken of them Touching Prebendaries I shall haue occasion to speake a worde heereafter For Earles and Dukes and such like titles of honor they are ciuil neither doth it folowe that because there may newe titles or newe offices be brought into the ciuile gouernement that therefore the same may be attempted in the church For God hath left a greater liberty in instituting thyngs in the common wealth then in the churche For for so much as there be diuers common wealthes and diuers formes of common wealthes and all good it falleth oute that the offices and dignityes whych are good in one common wealth are not good in an other as those which are good in a Monarchie are not good in Aristocratie and those which are good in Aristocratie are not good in a populare state But that can not be sayde of the churche whych is but one and vniforme and hathe the same lawes and forme of gouernment throughout the worlde In common wealths also there are conuersions one forme being changed into an other whych can not be in the true church of god As for Erasmus authoritye whych sayeth that Titus was an archbyshop I haue answeared to it And whereas Chrysostome sayeth that the iudgement of many byshops was committed to Titus I haue declared in what sorte that is to be vnderstanded and yet vpon those words the byshop can hardly conclude that whych he doth that Titus had the gouernment of many byshops For it is one thing to say the iudgement of many was committed vnto Titus and an other thyng to say that he had the gouernement of many The answer of the byshop vnto the fourth supposed reason pertaineth vnto an other question that is whether ecclesiasticall persons ought to exercise ciuil iurisdiction whervnto I will answer by Gods grace when I come to speake vpon occasion of M. Doctors boke of that question In the meane season I wil desire the reader to consider what weake grounds the archbyshop and archdeacon stand vpon seeing that the byshop of Sarum being so learned a man and of so great reading coulde say no more in their defence whych notwythstanding in the controuersies agaynst D. Harding is so pithy and so plentifull Now I haue shewed how little those things whych M. doctor bringeth make for proufe of that wherfore he alledgeth them I will for the better vnderstanding of the reader set downe what were the causes why the archbishops were first ordained and what were their prerogatiues and preheminēces before other byshops and the estate also of the old byshops whych liued in those times wherin althoughe there were great corruptions yet the church was in some tollerable estate to the entent it may appeare partly how little nede we haue of them now and partly also howe greate difference there is betweene oures and them Of the names of Metropolitane it hath bene spoken howe that he shoulde not be called the cheefe of priests or the high priest or byshop of byshops nowe I will sette downe hys office and power whych he had more then the byshops In the councell of Antioche it appeareth that the byshop of the metropolitane seate called Synodes propounded the matters whych were to be handled c. the archbyshop doth not nowe call Synodes but the Prince dothe for as much as there is no conuocation wythout a parliament he doth not propound the matters and gather the voyces but an other chosen whych is called prolocutor therfore in the respect that an archb metropolitane was first ordained we haue no neede of an archb or metropolitane Againe an other cause also appeareth there whych was to see that the byshoppes kepte them selues wythin their owne dioceses and brake not into an others diocese But first this may be done wythout an archbyshop and then it is not done of the archb hym selfe geuing licences vnto the wandring ministers to go throughout not so few as a dosen dioceses therefore the office of an archb is not necessarye in thys respecte and if it were yet it must be other then it is nowe Againe the cause whye the metropolitane differed from the rest and whye the calling of the Synode was geuen to hym as it appeareth in the same coūcel was for that the greatest concourse was to that place and most assembly of men whervnto also may be added for that there was the best commodity of lodging of vitailing and for that as it appeareth in other councels it was the place and seate of the Empire But wyth vs neyther the greatest concourse nor assemblye of men nor the greatest commodity of lodging and vitailing neyther yet the seate of the kingdome is in the metropolitane city therefore wyth vs there is no suche cause of a metropolitane or archbyshop In the councel of Carthage holden in Cyprians time it appeareth that no byshop had authority ouer an other to compell an other or to condemne an other but euery byshop was left at hys owne liberty to answer vnto God and to make hys accompt vnto Christ and if any thing were done against any bishop it was done by the consent of all the byshops in the prouince or as many as coulde conueniently assemble Therefore Cyprian whych was the metropolitane byshop had then no authoritye ouer the rest
and yet then there being no christian magistrate whych woulde punishe the disorders whych were committed of the christian byshops there was greatest neede that there shoulde haue bene some one whych might haue had the correction of the rest If therefore when there was moste neede of thys absolute authoritie there neyther was nor myght be anye suche it followeth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate whych maye and oughte to punishe the disorders of all Ecclesiasticall persons and may and ought to call them to accoumpt for their faultes that there shoulde be no suche neede of an archbyshop The moderation of their authority in the auncient times may appeare first by a Canon whych is falsly geuen to the apostles being as it is like a Canon of the councell of Antioche wherin although it ordaineth one primate in euery nation ouer the rest and will not suffer any great matter to be done wythout him as also will not suffer him to do any thing wythout the rest yet euery B. might do that whych appertained vnto hys own parish wythout hym and he nothing to do wyth hym in it But as it seemeth the meaning of the Canon was that if there were any waighty matter to be concluded for all the churches in the natiō then the byshops of euery parish should not enterprise any thing without calling hym to counsell Now we see that the archb medleth with that whych euery byshop doth in hys owne diocese and hath hys visitations for that purpose will take any matter out of their hands concludeth also of diuers matters neuer making the byshops once priuy to hys doings Higinus or as some thincke Pelagius I speake heere as Platina reporteth not thincking that in Higinus time there was any Metropolitane ordained that no Metropolitane should condemne any byshop onles the matter were first bothe harde and discussed by the byshoppes of that prouince at what time and after a great while a bishop was the same we cal a minister Now the archbyshop will wythout any further assistance or discussion by others suspend hym and in the ende also throwe him oute of hys charge and if he haue the same authority ouer a byshop as a byshop ouer the minister as it is sayd he may do the like vnto hym also The councell of Antioche ordained that if the voyces of the byshops were euen and that if halfe did condemne hym and halfe cleare hym that then the metropolitane byshop shoulde call of the nexte prouince some other byshops whych should make an end of the controuersy Wherby appeareth that the Metropolitane had so small authority and power ouer and aboue the rest that he had not so much as the casting voyce when bothe sides were euen and therefore it appeareth that besides the names of metropolitane there was little or no resemblance betweene those that were then and those whych be now Now to consider how the byshops whych are now differ from the byshops whych were in times past I must call to thy remembrance gentle reader that whych I haue spoken before which was that then there was as appeareth out of Cyprian and Ierome and others one byshop in euery parishe or congregation nowe one is ouer a thousande then euery byshop had a seuerall church where he preached and ministred the sacraments nowe he hath none then he ruled that one churche as I shewed oute of Ierome in common wyth the Elders of the same nowe he ruleth a thousande by hym selfe shutting oute the ministers to whome the rule and gouernement belongeth then he ordained not any minister of the churche except he were first chosen by the presbiterie and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordained nowe he ordaineth where there is no place voyde and of hys priuate authority wythout either choise or approbation of presbyterie or people then he excommunicated not nor receiued the excōmunicated but by sentences of the eldership and consent of the people as shall appeare afterward nowe he dothe bothe And thus you see that contrary to the woorde of God he hathe gotten into hys owne hande and pulled to him selfe bothe the preheminence of the other ministers and the liberties of the church whych God by his word had geuen And as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauaile those they haue turned vnto the other ministers as for example in times past it was not lawfull for hym that was then an elder to preache or minister the sacraments in the presence of the byshop because the bishop him selfe should do it and now those which they call elders may preach and minister the sacraments by the byshops good licence although he be present Now if you will also consider how much the Lordship pompe and statelines of the byshops in our dayes differ from the simplicity of them in times past I will geue you also a taste thereof if first of all I shewe the beginning or as it were the fountaine wherevpon the pompe grewe whych was when in steade of hauing a byshop in euery parishe and congregation they began to make a bishop of a whole diocese and of a thousand congregations In an epistle of ʒacharie vnto Pope Boniface it is thus wrytten it hath bene oftentimes decreed that there shoulde not be a byshop appoynted in euerye village or little citie least they should waxe vile through the multitude whereby it bothe appeareth that there was wonte to be a byshop in euery parishe and vpon howe corrupte and euill consideration one byshoppe was sette ouer a whole diocese No doubte those that were authoures of thys had learned too well our olde prouerb the fewer the better cheare but the more byshops the meryer it had bene wyth Gods people And they might wyth as good reason hinder the sunne from shining in al places the raine from falling vpon al grounds for feare they should not be set by being common as to bring in such a wicked decree wherby vnder pretence of deliuering the byshop from contempt they sought nothing else but an ambitious and stately Lordshyp ouer those whych had not that title of bishop that they had althoughe they did the office of a byshop better then they dyd And what intollerable presumption is thys to chaunge the institution of God as though he whych ordained not one only but some nomber more or les of byshops in euery church did not sufficiently foresee that the multitude and plentye of byshops coulde breede no contempt of the office And it may be as well ordained that the children of pore men shoulde not call them that begate them fathers and mothers but only the childrē of the rich and of noble least that if euery man that hathe children shoulde be called a father fathers should be sette nothyng by And heere let vs obserue by what degrees and staires Sathan lifted the childe of perdition vnto that proude title of vniuersall byshop First where the Lorde did ordaine that
it were not that M. doctor in asking these questions dothe also answer them and answeareth them farre otherwyse then the truthe doeth suffer I would not be drawne from the causes whych we haue in hand by these roging questions nowe I can not leaue them vnansweared because I see that mayster Doctor dothe make of the holy Sacrament of baptisme whych is an entry into the house of God and whereby only the family of God must enter a common passage wherby he will haue cleane and vncleane holy and prophane as well those that are wythout the couenaunt as those that be wythin it to passe by and so maketh the church no housholde but an Iune to receyue whosoeuer commeth I will answere therfore almost in as many words as the questions be asked If one of the parents be neyther drunkarde nor adulterer the chylde is holy by vertue of the couenaunt for one of the parents sakes If they be bothe and yet not obstinate in their synne whereby the church hathe not proceeded to Excommunication them selues being yet of the church their chylde can not nor ought not to be refused To the second question wherein he asketh what if the childe be of Papistes or Heretikes If bothe be Papistes or condenmed heretikes if so be I may distinguishe papistes from heretikes and cutte of from the church then their children can not be receyued because they are not in the couenaunt if eyther of them be faithfull I haue answeared before that they ought to be receyued To the other question wherin he asketh what if they erre in some poynts of matters of faithe If it be but an error and be not in those poynts whych case the foundations of fayth because they still notwythstandyng their error are to be counted amongst the faythfull their children pertaine vnto the promise and therfore to the sacrament of the promise And in the. 193. page he asketh what if the parentes of the chylde bee vnknowne If they be yet if godly men will present it to baptisme with promise of seeing it brought vp in the feare of the Lorde for so muche as it is founde in a place where the church is and therefore by lykelyhoode to appertayne vnto some that was of the church I thinke it may be baptysed if the church thinke it good in thys last case Then hee goeth forth in the. 111. page to proue that the children of those which he hath reckned may be baptysed and demaundeth whether a wicked father may haue a good child a papist or heretike father a beleuing child yes verely may they So may haue and hath the Turke and the Iewe and yet theyr children are not to be receyued vnlesse their fayth doe first appeare by confession But you say the papist and hereticke be baptised and so are not the Iewes and Turkes Their baptisme they being cut of from the church maketh them as much straungers vnto it as was Ismael and Esau which albeit they were circumcysed yet being cast out of the church they were no more to be accompted to be of the body of Gods people then those whiche neuer were in the church Now you see the poyson as you terme it which lyeth hyd vnder these wordes and if it be as you say poyson let vs haue some of your triacle In all the rest of the section there is nothing but that which he spake of before only the eldershyp is named which commeth to be entreated of in the next section The reply vnto the three next sections concerning the senyors beginning in the latter end of the. 112. page and holding on vntill the beginning of the. 118. page AS though M. Doctor were at vtter defiance with all good order Methode of wryting that which was geuen hym orderly by the Admonition he hath turned vpsyde downe For where the Admonition speaketh first of the elders then of that which is annexed vnto them which is the dyscipline whereof excommunication is a part consydering that the subiect is in nature before that which is annexed vnto it M. Doctor hath turned it cleane contrary and first speaketh of excommunication and then of the elders I will therefore that the reader may the easelyer vnderstand that which is sayde follow the order of the Admonition and first of all speake of the elders or senyors which ought to be in the church And in speaking of them I must call to remembrance that diuision which I made mention on before that is Of those which haue care and which gouerne the whole congregation some there be which do both teache the word and gouerne also some which doe not teach but only gouerne and be ayders in the gouernment vnto those which doe teache Thys dyuision is most manifestly set forth in the Epistle vnto Timothe where he sayeth the elders which rule well are worthy of double honor and especially those which labor in the word and doctryne where he maketh by playne and expresse words two sorts of elders the one which doth both gouerne and teach the other which gouerneth only These therefore are the senyors which are meant whose office is in helping the pastor or byshop in the gouernement of that particulare church where they be placed pastors and elders Now that it is knowne what these senyors be in entreating of them I am content to answere M. Doctor three requestes which he maketh in the. 125. page where he desireth that one would do so much for hym as first to shew that these senyors were in euery congregation secondarely he will haue it proued that thys regiment is perpetual and not to be altered last of all he desireth to know whether these senyors were lay men and not rather mynisters of the word and byshops Thys last is a fond request and suche as is alredy answeared but he must be followed For the first therefore which is that there were segnyors in euery congregation although M. Doctor in the 114. page and in the. 132. page constrayned by Ambose authoritie confesseth it in playne wordes yet because he requireth it to be shewed and maketh a iest at those places which are alledged out of the scripture to proue it some thing muste be spoken thereof The first place is in the Actes whych is that Paule Barnabas dyd appoynte by election elders in euerie congregation but it is not lyke they dyd appoynt dyuers ministers or bishops which preached in euery congregation which were not to be had for suche a number of congregations as were then to bee preached vnto therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other elders which dyd only in gouernment assist the pastors which preached And what should we follow comectures heere when S. Paule doth in the place before alledged declare what these elders are But M. Doctor sayeth that there is no mention made of the office of such an elder therefore that place maketh nothing to proue that there shoulde be such elders in euery congregation
to the Corinthians For it is certain that S. Paule dyd bothe vnderstand and obserue the rule of our sauyor Christ But he communicateth thys power of Excommunication wyth the church and therfore it must needes be the meaning of oure sauioure Christe that the excommunication should be by many and not by one and by the church and not by the minister of the church alone For he biddeth the church of Corinthe twise in the first Epistle once by a Metaphore an other time in playne woordes that they should excommunicate the incestuous person By metaphore saying purge out your olde leauen in playne and flat words when he sayeth take away that wicked man from amongst you And in the second Epistle vnderstanding of the repentance of that man he entreateth them that they would receyue hym in again shewing that he was content to release the bonde and chaine of hys excommunication so that they wold do the same and therefore consydering the absolution or reconciliation of the excommunicate dothe pertaine vnto the church it foloweth that the excommunication doth in lyke manner appertaine vnto it Now wheras M. Doctor vpon those wordes of S. Paule that he being absent in body and present in spirite had determined c. concludeth that the ryght of excommunication was in S. Paule and not in the rest it is as much as if he should say S. Paule as much as lay in hym excommunicated therfore s. Paule excommunicated or S. Paule excommunicated therefore the churche dyd not For what if S. Paule dyd excommunicate hym so muche as lay in hym shoulde he therfore haue bene excommunicated if the church of Corinthe and the minyster there would haue admitted hym to the supper and not abstaine from familiare companying wyth hym You will say he should haue bene bounde in heauen and before God although the church of Corinthe had not put hym forthe It is true that the apostles denunciation of Gods vengeance vpon the impenitent sinner is ratifyed in heauen and so shoulde he also haue bene if S. Paule had sayd nothyng and yet S. Paule dyd not excommunicate the incestuous persone but so much as lay in hym and as farre as hys ryght stretched not being therfore yet excommunicated by S. Paule it foloweth that the church had a stroke in the excommunication Againe to proue that the church hath nothyng to doe wyth excommunication it is not enoughe to say that S. Paule had the ryght of excommunication But you shoulde haue shewed that he only had it and then you are manifestly conuicted by S. Paules own words whych ioyneth the church with hym in that excommunication saying that he had decreed that the doer of that fact by hys spirite and them gathered together in the name of Iesus Christe and by hys power should be geuen to sathan And if the right of excommunication were only in S. Paule how is it that you sayd before that it is in the minister of the churche had the minister of the churche of Corinthe nothing to doe And if it were in S. Paule alone why doth he chide wyth the church that they had not already excommunicated hym before he wrote vnto them to signifye hys wyll to excommunicate or if it were in the minister of the church only why wâ—â— S. Paule chide and sharply rebuke the church for that the incestuous man was not cast forthe Why doth he charge the Corinthians wyth that whych was the only fault of the minister An other obiection M. doctor hath out of the .16 of S. Mathew and the 20. of Iohn in whych places because he giueth power to the .xij. to bynde and to lose M. Doctor will conclude that they only haue power to binde and to lose Salomon sayeth that the iust man is first the accuser of himselfe and therfore it behoued M. doctor or euer he shuld haue accused the authors of the Admonition of dalying and vnreuerent handlyng of the scriptures to haue first of all spoken to him selfe and haue strickeÌ„ him selfe vpon the thigh For if thys be not to abuse the scriptures I knowe not what is to abuse them for to let passe that some and of the auncient wryters do expounde the place of S. Mathewe of euery membre of Christ and of as many as haue faith to confes Christ to be the some of God and so by that meanes to haue power of excommunication I say to let that goe M. doctor myght easely know if he would that in that plaâ—e our sauyor Christ speaketh of the binding and losing whych â—â—y the preaching of the word of God standyng in threates and promyses and therefore that binding pertayneth only vnto the ministers to whom the preachyng doth only belong But in the .18 of S. Mathewe where he speaketh of the binding and losing by excommunication and receyuing to the churche agayne there he attributeth thys power vnto the church He hath an other obiection out of S. Paule to Timothe where for that it is sayde that s Paule dyd excommunicate Hymineus and Alexander he concludeth after hys old manner that therfore he only excommunicated But for so much as I haue proued that both the rule of Christ the practise of S. Paule accordyng to that rule be otherwyse it can not be that S. Paule dyd excommunicate hym selfe alone those persons for then he should disagree bothe wyth our sauyor Christ and wyth hym selfe But as I haue shewed before in other ecclesiastical actions and exercises of discipline that one man is sayd to do that which was done of many for because one was moderator of that action or exercise so s. Paul here sayeth that he dyd excommunicate not that he dyd it by hym selfe alone but because he was president cheefe in that action And although it shuld be graunted whych can not that S. Paule dyd excommunicate hymselfe alone being an apostle or for one tyme yet it neyther foloweth that the byshop or minister may do that whych the apostle dyd or that he may do continually the which was done but once and extraordinarily As for the place of Titus the thirde it maketh nothyng to excommunication onles you wold conclude that for that S. Paule biddeth Titus to trouble hymselfe no more wyth confuting an obstinate hereticke therfore he biddeth hym excommunicate an hereticke by hym selfe As touching Bafiles place in the second booke of Offices when the booke commeth forth is Printed then it shal be answered as for me I know of none such that is extant now To the rest I will answer wyth thys protestation that if all men should do contrary to the order of God yet their authority or example ought not to haue the waight of a fether which I haue said before do vnderstand it in all places wher I do not expres it wyth this I come to M. doctors authorities And as for Theodoretus byshop of Laodicea whych Sozomene maketh mention of in hys sixthe booke I finde none suche but there
is mentioned of one Theodotus who is sayd to haue seperated or excommunicated Apollinaris but it doth not appeare there that he alone of hys owne authority dyd excommunicate hym And there be great reasons in that Chapter to proue that he dyd it not of hys owne authority for immediatly after his heresy was knowne Damasus bishop of Rome and Peter bishop of Alexandria caused a sinode to be gathered at Rome where hys heresy was condemned Now for so much as the custome of synodes and councels is when they condenme the heresyes to excommunicate the heretickes it is to be thoughte that that councell dyd excommunicate hym and that Theodotus byshop of Laodicea dyd execute that decree and excommunication And in deede Sozomene doth so expound hym selfe when immediatly after he had sayde that he dyd excommunicate him he addeth acoinonetoh auton apophainei whych is that he declared him excommunicate whych in deede properly belongeth to the minister when the excommunication is decreed by those to whoÌ„ it appertaineth Whych thing may yet better appeare by the manner of speache whych is vsed in an other place where speaking of â—ictor excommunycating Theodotus he vttereth it by thys apekeryxe whych is to promulgate or pronounce the sentence whych was decreed by others As for Amb. although he be greatly commended for excommunicating the Emperor yet he was neuer commended for that he did excommunicate him himselfe alone and if he dyd excommunicate him himselfe alone yet hys fault was the les for so much as he being desirous of an eldershyp could not as it semeth by hys complaint which I haue spoken of before â—â—â—aine one And although the storyes doe not make mention y there were others whose authority came into thys excommunication yet it followeth not y there were no other And how often wil you stomble at that which you do so sharply reproue in others whych is in making of arguments of authority negatiuely And if you will not grauÌ„t thys manner of reasonyng in the scripture in matters pertaining to the gouernment of the church whych are all comprehended in the scripture how would you reason of a common story whych neither can nor dothe professe to speake all those things whych fall into that matter whych it wryteth of But what if so be it be proued that Ambrose did not this of hys owne authoritye but by the authoritye also of others will you then confesse that he is commended of all those whych wryte stories for so doing and confesse that the vse and practise of the primitiue church was far from thys that is nowe For proufe whereof I will geue you a place whych Ambrose the best wytnes of thys matter hath in one of his epistles wher he sheweth that assone as the murther whych Theodosius had caused to be done at the citye of Thessalonica was heard by and by the byshops of Fraunce came and there was holden a Synode where also Ambrose sayeth that hys communicating wyth Theodosius coulde not absolue hym for that as it myght appeare the byshops in that synode had in excommunicating hym ordained that he should not be absolued vntill suche tyme as he had done repentance whych he did afterward with confessyon of his faulte before the congregation and asking forgeuenes of it So it appeareth that that whych he did he did it by the sentence of the synode and not of hys owne authority alone In the. 220. 221. pages he speaketh of thys thing a fresh but hath no newe matter but maketh a bare rehersall of the places of the admonition asking after hys accustomed manner of confuting what maketh thys or what proueth that only wheras he sayd before and proued as he thought that the minister had only to do wyth excommunication being pressed there by the admonition either to defend or renounce hys Chauncellors c. he had rather deny bothe the truth and himselfe then he wold haue any of that horrible confusion and prophanation of the holy discipline of God brought in by popery threatnyng the ouerthrow of the whole church seruing for nothing but for the nourishing of the ambition and idlenes of a fewe driuen out of the church Of the whych I will vpon occasion speake a word if first I shewe that the vse of the auncyent church hath bene not to permit the excommunication to one but that the sentence therof should come from the gouernors and elders of the church vnto whome that dyd especially appertaine Although I can not passe by that which M. doctor sayth that for so much as the authors of the Admonition had alledged the words tell the church to proue the interest of the church in excommunication that therefore they could not vse the same to proue the interest of the pastor as who should saye that the pastor is not one of the church But of the absurdity of this I haue spoken sufficiently before and how all men do see the vanity of thys reason that because that people haue an interest by thys place therfore the pastor hath none But I come to shew the vse of the primitiue church in thys matter wherof we haue a manifest testimony in Tertullian If sayth he there be any whych hath committed suche a faulte that he is to be put away from the partakyng of the prayer of the church and from all holy matters or affaires there do beare rule or be presidents certaine of the most approued auncients or elders whych haue obtayned thys honor not by mony but by good report And that the auncients had the ordering of these things and the peoples consent was required and that if the case were a very difficult case it was referred vnto the synodes or councels and that the ministers dyd not take vpon them of their owne authority to excommunicate and that those whych dyd receiue the excommunicate wythout the knowledge consent of the churche were reprehended it may appeare almost in euery page of Cyprians Epistles and namely in these whych I haue noted in the margent In Augustines tyme it appeareth also that the consent of the church was required for in the third boke agaynst the epistle of Parmenian he sheweth that if the multitude of the church be not in that fault for which one is to be excommunicated that then it helpeth much to make the party both afrayde and ashamed that he be excommunicated or anathematised as he calleth it by all the churche and in hys bookes de Baptis contra Donatistas in diuers places he is so far from permitting the excommunication to one man that he semeth to fal into the other extremity whych is to make the estate of the church to populare and the people to haue too great a sway For there he sheweth that if the most of the people be infected wyth the fault whych is to be punyshed by excommunication that then no excommunication ought to be attempted for because a sufficient numbre of voyces will not be obtained