both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ◠if y ◠Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ◠Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ◠elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ◠this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is
or plainly directly or indirely with protestatiō or without to defend or any way vphold such a base ministery But seeing it is the righteous iudgement of God vpon all our vnrigteousnesse but especially vppon their sinne who haue admitted tollerated and defended such vnsauory salt that instead of putting them to their right vse which our sauiour sayth is to bee cast on the dung-hill and to bee troden vnder the feet of men they do not only not remoue the stincking snuffe out of the candlesticke to place the bright-shining candle in their roome but also hauing cast downe a third parte of the starres from Heauen vnto the earth doe still by publique writing vnderprop suche crazed and rotted pillers It shall be expedient before the particuler examining of his seueral allegations to let the world see how that while they are strugling with the light of their owne conscience the Lorde as the Apostle sayth hath made their madnesse manifest to all men For when as they should haue bene mooued with the pitifull bowels of our Sauiour Christe who had compassion on the people though they came to his preaching and had their doctors and teachers of the Lawe such as they were in euerye Towne and Uilladge as sheepe scattered without a shepheard they haue made themselues a laughing stocke vnto the prophane but a pitty and heart-bleeding to the godlye by their ridiculous aunsweres open shiftings contradictiōs assertions and by such positions as come nearer to the prophane spirite of the Jesuites then to the holy Doctrine of any old or new writer of whome this question hath beene handled For how vnsauory is it For to decline the sharp stroke of Gods worde hee is faine to turne the rule of the Apost 1. Tim. 3. Which by Councels and Fathers is made an ordinary rule for the examination of those which stande to bee admitted into the ministery into a Platonical Idaea which should neuer be found in any And to shift of the plaine forme of their ordination wherein they are willed to receiue authority to preach the word he sayth that It is not in vain but to instruct vs forsooth that mere lay-men are not inhabled to this office as though ther were no booke to learne that lesson vnlesse the Byshop taught it by giuing authority to ignoraunt men to open their mouthes in preachiuge which after by a straight charge he is faine to sowe vp And lastly to leaue out other which the wise reader maye easilye see going aboute to prooue reading to bee a kinde of preaching he is dryuen to demaunde whether declaring of the Worde in the mother tongue be not a kinde of declaration c. Secondly what open shifts are these to couer the shame of thē who ordained ignoraunt Ministers hee is compelled to aske What if hee made him not or that the Parish were little or poore When in his own conscience he dareth not deny and all the worlde knoweth such are dayly made and as though fewenesse or pouertie deserued a blinde guid that they might both fal into the ditch Againe how simple and naked was that where to excuse the colde exhortatious of the ignorant Ministers he is forced to say that they are as profitable as they who through more audacity take vpō thē to preach come iust as nere the text as Iarmās lips are said to come together as if one to shew y ◠goodnes of y ◠pestilent feuer should alledge y ◠commodities of the plague Also how is this whole discourse at war with it selfe for to defend vnpreaching Ministers he challengeth mē to proue it simply vnlawfull to ordain men ministers of the Worde and Sacramentes which cannot preach when in another place he is driuen to confesse y t they receiue authority to preache to teach thē that they are addicted to the same as a thing incident to their office Which is as much to say Al ministers must receiue authority to preach as a thing incidēt to their calling yet some ministers may be ordained to the ministery of the Word Sacraments only y t is must receiue no authority to preache Nowe what concord ther is betweene him the Iesuites let this comparisō following declare They say vpon 17. vers of 1. Tim. cap. 5. Wee may note that all good Byshops and Priestes of those dayes were not so well able to teach as some others and yet for the ministery of Sacramentes and for Wisdome and Gouernment were not vnmeete to be Byshops and Pastours He sayth that they may bee Ministers of the Word Sacraments though they cannot preache They say Although it be due high commendation in a prelate to be able to teach as the Apostle before noteth yet al cā not haue the like grace therein it is often recompensed by other singuler giftes no lesse necessary He saith y ◠the aptnes to teach is an high eminent Idaea of y e Apostle rather declaring what is requisite in a Minister then what is necessarily required They say some times and countries require more preaching then others He saith vnpreaching Ministers are fitt for small Congregations though not for populous and troublesom people In all which let the reader mark whether the Jesuits be not one step nerer the trueth then he Now although this be bee sufficent to bewray the aunswerers halting yet because a great muster of faint Souldiers is thought to bee a mighty armye till being incountered withall they bee seuerally scattered and put to flight it is necessary to meet euery one of this valiant host hand to hand And first we ouerthrowe his Idaea which serueth for nothing else but to set out the holy Cannons of the Apostle to the laughter of all prophane men by these reasons following 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle inferreth vpon the worthy worke of a Byshop or Ministers office as that which must be in him for y ◠necessity of that work or for the necessary adorning of it the same cannot be such an Idaea 2 But the Apostle hauing saide that hee that desireth a Bishoppes charge desireth a worthy worke thereon concludeth 3 Therefore he must be apt to teach Wherefore seing he sayth Dei einai didacticon y t is he must be apt to teach how dare he say it is onely good and requisit or an Idaea which a Minister cannot attaine vnto for if he can not be so apt to teach as is there required thē it followeth he must not be apt to teach seeing in y e gouernment of y ◠Church a man must not be y ◠he cannot be althogh in the perfection of God his Lawe which was giuen to shew man his sinne and that man could fulfill the same yet in the rules of the church-gouerment it is farre otherwise which are set downe for a direction to the Church in their triall who are fit to such or such offices Secondly if that property of being apt to teache bee an Idaea that is an imagination
sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y â— words of y â— answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the CongregatioÌ„ with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distintâ—t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they
Scriptures then it is of Magistrates onely as 1. chro 28. 1. 1. chro 13. 1. Or when the matters were meerely Ecclesiasticall then was the Ecclesiasticall Senate onely brought together as in consultatioÌ„ 2. king 6. 32. As in matters to be done in the congregation Act. 13. 15. For Excommunication John 9. 22. 10. 40. For interpretation the Priests and Leuites only Math. 24. And lastly by this that Peter being before both the Senates Ecclesiasticall and Ciuil doth plainly distinguish them calling y e one the cheefe or rulers of Israel the other the Elders of Israel Wherefore this proueth not that they did exercize ciuill authority and although our lawes political are not in this respect like vnto the Jewes yet if the Magistrate will call the Eldership to declare the will of God or pronounce duely an Ecclesiasticall sentence when hee will pronounce a Ciuill it may well be done without the confusion he speaketh of The next that he saith out of Caluine y e Presbitries of y e Jews was from men not froÌ„ heauen is fals for Caluin saith only since the captiuity it was chosen for the censure of manners but he sayth also in that place that that regiment was lawfull and allowed of God and that Christ did worthily prayse the order deliuered of the fathers and that which was kept vnder the law Christ sent vnto vs. Now the Fathers vnder the law did not any of those thinges and lesse then these but by God his commaundement by his Prophets yea this was commanded both that in euery City and that for more difficult causes at Hierusalem such Senate shoulde bee appointed Deut. 1. 8. 9. c. The like vntruethe is it that Musculus vnderstoode it of the whole Congregation for euen as D. Whitgift alleadged him pag. 633. He sayth It was by Seniors in Ecclesiasticall assemblie As vntrue is the other y â— Caluine sayth Neyther in Christes time nor 22. yeares after this Christian Eldership was established for he sayth in that place Where Christe a little after erected his Church the corruption beeing taken away he did restore the pure vse of Excommunication And that there is no doubt but this order of discipline which flourished vnder the kingdome of Christ succeeded into the place of that old and it is playn by the Scripture as soone as there was an ordinary set Congregation there were Elders which ioined with the Apostles in Church-gouernment Act. 12. 30. Actes 15. 6. Acts. 21. 18. Neither must they by example of the Jewes haue but one for a Nation only seeing it hath bene shewed such were in euery City and Synagogue wheras if we should square it after this his patterne we should haue one only for y â— whol Church That he saith y â— Apostles wold not haue executed the deacons office al Christs time He bableth fables which he knowth not for ther office in Christs time was only to preach and baptize in Iudaea and to be witnesses of Christs life doctrine death resurrection and ascention That which they did at Hierusalem was but to take care for y â— pore till they had fit persons and occasion to establish the order which Christe ordained neyther did they it only because they were withdrawn which if they were being so many how much more shall Ministers and Byshops bee if they looke to these and to ciuil affayres also but also because it was not acceptable meaning to God thus to doe when they had by God his blessing both suche persons place and time as he required Al the rest of his some of words that neither father Councel nor Scripture hath left in memory where when or by whom it was first erected put in practize is worse then nothing For it was done of the Apostles at Jerusalem long before the councell as is proued out of Act. 12. 30. But this sheweth their giddinesse y â— say somtime y â— it hath no testimony either of scripture or antiquity and yet again confesse and alleadge Ambrose to proue that Seniors haue beene and that they were extinguished before Ambrose his time which they will not say of Elders which minister the Word and Sacramentes for they were not extinguished before Ambrose his time neither yet are Also that they say the Byshops differ and are aboue other ministers for pollicy and order only and yet make them differ in the Ministery of grace as in the sentence of Excoâ—â—â—ucation of Absolution and according to their Doctrine of ministring strength against temptations by confirmation For these they make proper to the Byshop and not common to euery minister and notwithstanding the Minister must read the Excommunication yet y â— word sentence and authority doth come from the Byshop and for Absolution it is ynough to goe to him or his Delegate The nexte contraryetyes agree like friends for both all Is not expressed in the Scripture as the booke of Discipline sayth and yet all may be prooued by direct Scripture Seeing whatsoeuer is necessarily collected thence though it be not expressed is directlye prooued Also the next is of as little value for both Ministers and Preachers as Caluine sayth may be vnderstood and also gouerning Elders as Beza noteth The next is an open lye for Beza sayth on that place of Tim. 5. 17. Therefore there were two sortes of Elders When one sort should attend on gouernment the other on the Word prayer Of such force is the next for the booke of Discipline agreeth in iudgment with M. Cartwight that in the place of the 1. Tim. 3. vnder Deacous are comprehended both those properly so called and the Elders For M. Cartwright referreth him self to that obseruation Pag. 54. and prooueth it because the qualities there set downe are common to bothe and there are none touched proper to either and the Word Deacons is taken in diuers places for all those Ministers which are not occupyed in the Worde as Rom. 12. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 11. The next is like to that of the 14. of the Act and so to be answered Also one may gather The Eldership out of the. 1. Cor. 12 For of the 14. none doth and out of the other places both vnles he be so learned in diuinity y t he thinke diuers places caÌ„not proue one thing His other cauil is not worth a rush for in one respect Deacons signifying somtime all Ministries not occupyed in the Worde may be a Genus or generall to Elders and Deacons so called Also the name Bishop beeing generally giuen of their work of watching or our-seeing Act. 20. vnto Elders may be commoÌ„ both to ministers and gouerning Elders which disagreeth not with this that Elders be teaching and vnteaching It is true also which is obserued by the booke of Discipline that the name of Elders is not giuen to those Deacons which are distributers and his written booke may be ouer-seene in so smal a thing as
in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vniusâ—ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y â— writings which haue coÌ„futed by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excelleÌ„t Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.