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authority_n bind_v church_n scripture_n 2,574 5 6.4281 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
B11734 The vnreasonablenesse of the separation Made apparant, by an examination of Mr. Iohnsons pretended reasons, published an. 1608. Wherby hee laboureth to iustifie his schisme from the church assemblies of England. Bradshaw, William, 1571-1618.; Ames, William, 1576-1633. Manudicition for Mr. Robinson. 1614 (1614) STC 3532; ESTC S113892 55,662 116

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see_v he_o say_v nothing_o throughout_o this_o in_o effect_n that_o he_o have_v not_o all_o ready_a say_v in_o some_o one_o or_o other_o of_o his_o former_a book_n fr._n joh._n pag._n 8._o the_o ministry_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n speak_v of_o eph._n 4.11_o arg._n the_o 2._o arg._n be_v the_o ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a ministry_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n and_o such_o as_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o earth_n nether_a may_v nor_o ever_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o abolishe_v see_v christ_n have_v appoint_v it_o to_o continue_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n but_o the_o prelacy_n preesthood_n and_o deaconrye_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o ordinarije_fw-fr and_o perpetual_a ministry_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n but_o such_o as_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o earth_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o abolish_v out_o of_o their_o dominion_n rev._n 17_o 16_o 1._o tim._n 2.2_o rom._n 13_o 4._o with_o 1._o kin._n 23.3_o deu_fw-mi 12.2_o psa_fw-la 72.1_o therefore_o the_o preesthood_n prelacy_n and_o deaconrye_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o ministry_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n speak_v of_o eph._n 4.11_o answer_n idenye_v the_o assumption_n understanding_n by_o prelacy_n preesthood_n and_o deaconrye_n the_o ordinary_a ministry_n of_o our_o church_n assembly_n against_o which_o he_o propound_v to_o himself_o to_o dispute_v and_o answer_n that_o it_o be_v the_o ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a ministry_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n and_o such_o as_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o earth_n be_v bind_v by_o god_n law_n to_o maintain_v and_o protect_v by_o their_o authority_n and_o if_o their_o be_v any_o corruption_n in_o and_o about_o the_o same_o which_o they_o ought_v to_o abolish_v that_o yet_o they_o be_v accidentiall_a and_o personal_a and_o not_o so_o essential_a as_o that_o they_o do_v destroy_v the_o ministry_n the_o place_n of_o scripture_n annex_v to_o the_o assumption_n for_o the_o proof_n 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and_o for_o proof_n thereof_o bid_v we_o if_o we_o deny_v it_o show_v the_o contrary_a by_o scripture_n do_v not_o the_o burden_n of_o prove_v by_o the_o very_a law_n of_o common_a reason_n lie_v upon_o the_o accuser_n if_o i_o shall_v in_o like_a manner_n reproach_n his_o ministry_n &_o say_v it_o be_v a_o ministry_n that_o stand_v upon_o sorcery_n witch_n croft_a and_o conjuration_n and_o for_o proof_n thereof_o bid_v he_o if_o he_o deny_v it_o show_v the_o contrary_a by_o scripture_n be_v i_o not_o worthy_a at_o least_o to_o be_v laugh_v out_o of_o the_o school_n this_o be_v a_o sufficient_a justification_n of_o our_o ministry_n that_o such_o malition_n adversary_n thereof_o who_o will_v seem_v so_o expert_a in_o the_o scripture_n be_v no_o better_o able_a by_o scripture_n to_o prove_v their_o unchristian_a accusation_n 2._o it_o be_v true_a that_o light_n have_v no_o followship_n with_o darkness_n nor_o christ_n with_o antichrist_n yet_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o man_n in_o this_o life_n but_o it_o be_v mingle_v with_o some_o darkness_n and_o the_o best_a christian_n that_o be_v or_o ever_o have_v be_v since_o the_o apostle_n time_n may_v be_v infect_v with_o some_o point_n of_o antichristianisme_n many_o of_o the_o late_a martyr_n since_o the_o reveal_n of_o antichrist_n be_v worthy_a light_n and_o renown_a christian_n and_o yet_o the_o light_n of_o many_o of_o they_o be_v mingle_v with_o more_o darkness_n and_o their_o christianity_n with_o more_o antichristianisme_n then_o can_v be_v find_v in_o our_o ministry_n 3._o our_o bishop_n have_v as_o good_a reason_n to_o make_v the_o like_a supposition_n against_o he_o and_o as_o much_o worthy_a the_o inquiry_n that_o be_v if_o the_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n be_v a_o live_v now_o in_o their_o own_o person_n where_o he_o live_v and_o shall_v profess_v the_o church_n assembly_n in_o england_n to_o be_v true_a church_n and_o their_o ministry_n in_o general_a to_o be_v a_o lawful_a ministry_n and_o their_o worship_n for_o substance_n to_o be_v a_o true_a worship_n whether_o m._n johnson_n and_o his_o church_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o be_v so_o much_o as_o private_a member_n of_o their_o society_n much_o more_o to_o preach_v etc._n etc._n 4._o though_o our_o bishop_n shall_v herein_o be_v so_o impious_a as_o to_o advance_v in_o such_o a_o manner_n their_o own_o authority_n and_o ordinance_n above_o the_o apostle_n yet_o what_o be_v that_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o preesthoode_n and_o deaconry_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o our_o church_n assembly_n who_o many_o of_o they_o in_o these_o point_n be_v mere_a patient_n and_o esteem_v of_o these_o thing_n as_o burden_n can_v stand_v with_o the_o office_n of_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n do_v m._n johnson_n think_v that_o none_o of_o our_o minister_n in_o england_n will_v suffer_v the_o apostle_n to_o preach_v in_o their_o cure_n without_o wear_v a_o surplice_n if_o they_o may_v have_v their_o own_o will_n or_o shall_v this_o any_o whit_n derogate_v from_o their_o ministry_n that_o the_o bishop_n therein_o will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o have_v their_o will_n 5._o it_o be_v beside_o the_o present_a question_n and_o a_o needless_a thing_n to_o spend_v time_n in_o justify_v the_o canon_n herein_o if_o the_o bishop_n therein_o have_v go_v too_o far_o it_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v the_o fault_n of_o the_o parson_n rather_o than_o of_o the_o prelacy_n itself_o and_o therefore_o to_o make_v and_o urge_v such_o canon_n and_o tradition_n as_o be_v a_o fore_n say_v do_v not_o prove_v but_o that_o for_o all_o that_o the_o prelacy_n &_o in_o of_o itself_o may_v stand_v well_o enough_o with_o the_o office_n of_o the_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n for_o those_o office_n may_v of_o themselves_o if_o their_o be_v no_o other_o impediment_n stand_v well_o one_o with_o a_o other_o which_o in_o the_o action_n thereof_o do_v not_o but_o by_o accident_n only_o one_o overthrow_n or_o oppugn_v the_o other_o fr._n john_n pag._n 9.10_o the_o office_n of_o true_a pastor_n arg._n the_o 4._o arg._n and_o teacher_n be_v by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n set_v in_o the_o church_n and_o employ_v in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n sacrament_n &_o church_n government_n so_o as_o they_o may_v not_o with_o their_o ecclesiastical_a function_n receive_v cyvill_n office_n and_o calling_n nor_o take_v upon_o they_o princely_a title_n and_o dignity_n eph._n 4.11_o 1._o pet._n 5.1_o rom._n 12.2.4_o luk._n 12.14_o and_o 22.25_o 1._o cor._n 12.5.8_o 1._o tim._n 4.13.15.16_o 2._o tim._n 2.4_o but_o the_o officies_n of_o prelate_n priest_n and_o deacon_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o so_o but_o by_o their_o own_o constitution_n we_o set_v in_o the_o church_n and_o employ_v in_o the_o ministry_n so_o as_o they_o may_v also_o receive_v cyvill_n office_n and_o calling_n as_o to_o be_v justice_n of_o peace_n etc._n etc._n
therefore_o they_o be_v not_o true_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n answer_n there_o be_v 4._o term_n in_o this_o syllogism_n the_o gross_a sophisterye_n whereof_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o explanation_n thereof_o in_o other_o word_n true_a pastor_n &_o teacher_n may_v not_o viz._n by_o god_n law_n take_v upon_o they_o cyvill_n office_n the_o minister_n of_o england_n may_v viz._n by_o man_n law_n take_v upon_o they_o cyvill_n office_n therefore_o they_o be_v not_o true_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n this_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o his_o argument_n &_o who_o be_v so_o blind_a but_o he_o may_v see_v the_o fallacy_n thereof_o and_o it_o be_v as_o though_o we_o shall_v reason_v in_o the_o like_a manner_n against_o their_o own_o ministry_n thus_o true_a pastor_n &_o teacher_n may_v not_o be_v drunkard_n anabaptist_n familist_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o separation_n at_o amsterdam_n may_v be_v drunkard_n anabaptist_n familist_n therefore_o they_o be_v not_o true_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n this_o 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magistrate_n not_o as_o they_o be_v prelate_n priest_n or_o deacon_n or_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o function_n but_o in_o respect_n of_o other_o qualification_n nether_a be_v the_o force_v by_o any_o law_n to_o adjoyne_v any_o such_o authority_n to_o their_o ministry_n but_o permit_v only_o but_o what_o if_o by_o the_o law_n of_o man_n minister_n may_v be_v murderer_n adulterer_n thief_n etc._n etc._n shall_v these_o law_n change_v the_o nature_n of_o their_o ministry_n what_o of_o their_o ministry_n that_o deny_v unto_o themselves_o that_o licence_n will_v it_o not_o rather_o the_o more_o justify_v their_o ministry_n when_o in_o conscience_n of_o god_n law_n they_o shall_v for_o bear_v that_o which_o flesh_n and_o blood_n and_o human_a law_n will_v permit_v unto_o they_o 3._o suppose_v not_o only_o that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o any_o true_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n to_o be_v cyvill_n magistrate_n but_o that_o also_o by_o our_o law_n all_o our_o minister_n be_v force_v thereunto_o 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better_a hide_v of_o his_o fraud_n he_o forbear_v to_o quote_v any_o particular_a place_n be_v therefore_o convince_v of_o depravation_n in_o the_o place_n particular_o quote_v we_o may_v presume_v that_o if_o the_o other_o place_n have_v be_v more_o pertinent_a he_o will_v have_v give_v we_o some_o particular_a direction_n also_o for_o the_o find_n of_o they_o and_o the_o rather_o for_o that_o he_o can_v be_v ignorant_a that_o those_o who_o special_o he_o fight_v against_o in_o these_o argument_n do_v rely_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o author_n follow_v more_o than_o of_o the_o former_a fr._n john_n the_o office_n of_o pastor_n arg._n the_o 6._o arg._n and_o teacher_n which_o christ_n have_v appoint_v be_v such_o as_o they_o which_o have_v they_o must_v be_v member_n of_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n and_o bind_v to_o one_o particular_a congregation_n for_o the_o ministry_n and_o government_n thereof_o but_o the_o office_n of_o the_o prelate_n priest_n and_o deacon_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v such_o as_o they_o which_o have_v they_o need_v not_o be_v neither_o in_o their_o state_n can_v be_v member_n of_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n but_o of_o a_o fall_v neither_o be_v bind_v to_o one_o particular_a congregation_n for_o the_o ministry_n and_o government_n thereof_o but_o the_o prelate_n be_v our_o whoele_n province_n and_o diocese_n &_o other_o inferior_a priest_n may_v have_v in_o that_o state_n plurality_n of_o benefice_n and_o ecclesiall_a cure_n etc._n etc._n which_o none_o can_v deny_v therefore_o they_o be_v not_o the_o pastor_n &_o teacher_n that_o christ_n have_v appoint_v answer_n though_o some_o part_n of_o the_o proposition_n be_v disputable_a yet_o because_o other_o beside_o the_o separation_n do_v hold_v the_o whole_a for_o truth_n i_o will_v leave_v it_o in_o medio_fw-la the_o assumption_n be_v false_a especial_o if_o it_o be_v understand_v as_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v of_o the_o
apostasy_n because_o it_o be_v a_o ministry_n that_o be_v not_o set_v by_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n this_o do_v he_o most_o gross_o run_v round_o in_o a_o circle_n as_o if_o i_o shall_v prove_v that_o his_o ministry_n be_v unlawful_a because_o he_o be_v a_o schismatic_a and_o that_o he_o be_v a_o schismatic_a because_o his_o ministry_n be_v unlawful_a the_o 2._o reason_n whereby_o he_o prove_v his_o proposition_n follow_v fr._n john_n 2._o if_o the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v such_o office_n and_o government_n as_o be_v special_a part_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n than_o the_o ministry_n ordain_v by_o they_o thereunto_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o ministry_n of_o that_o apostasy_n but_o the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v such_o office_n and_o government_n as_o be_v special_a part_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n therefore_o the_o ministry_n ordain_v by_o they_o be_v the_o ministry_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n the_o consequent_a be_v manifest_a because_o the_o fruit_n must_v needs_o be_v as_o the_o tree_n be_v mat._n 7.16_o and_o who_o can_v bring_v a_o clean_a thing_n out_o of_o filthiness_n job_n 14.4_o the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v 1._o whosoever_o beside_o christ_n have_v such_o office_n and_o government_n whereby_o the_o claim_n to_o be_v spiritual_a lord_n the_o have_v the_o office_n and_o government_n which_o be_v special_a part_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n and_o be_v indeed_o very_a antichrist_n themselves_o but_o such_o be_v the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n therefore_o the_o have_v such_o office_n and_o goverment_n as_o be_v special_a purt_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n the_o proposition_n be_v prove_v by_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o spiritual_a lord_n the_o lord_n jesus_n the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v by_o the_o law_n and_o statute_n of_o the_o land_n wherein_o they_o be_v call_v lord_n spiritual_a and_o in_o their_o canon_n they_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o prescribe_v their_o own_o ordinance_n to_o the_o ghurch_n for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o bind_v the_o spiret_fw-la and_o couscience_n to_o the_o acknowledgement_n and_o approbation_n thereof_o and_o to_o give_v the_o holy_a ghost_n 2._o the_o office_n and_o government_n of_o such_o bishop_n as_o be_v over_o diocesan_n and_o provincial_a church_n and_o exercise_v ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o the_o minister_n and_o people_n therein_o be_v special_a part_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n but_o such_o be_v the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n ergo_fw-la they_o have_v such_o office_n and_o government_n as_o be_v special_o part_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n answer_n 1._o i_o deny_v the_o consequent_a of_o the_o proposition_n of_o the_o 1._o sillogisme_n the_o officer_n &_o governor_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n may_v &_o have_v ordain_v some_o thing_n that_o be_v christian_n nether_a do_v the_o say_n of_o christ_n or_o job_n prove_v the_o consequent_a for_o though_o it_o shall_v be_v grant_v unto_o he_o that_o the_o governor_n of_o antichrist_n apostasy_n have_v ordain_v this_o ministry_n yet_o do_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v therefore_o a_o proper_a &_o mere_a fruit_n of_o antichrist_n but_o may_v be_v a_o dentall_a effect_n as_o be_v many_o other_o thing_n which_o he_o ordain_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n own_o ordinance_n so_o that_o he_o must_v prove_v that_o our_o ministry_n ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n or_o bishop_n do_v as_o proper_o flow_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o their_o office_n and_o government_n as_o fig_n from_o a_o fig_n tree_n or_o grape_n from_o a_o vine_n or_o filthy_a water_n from_o a_o foul_a fountain_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o be_v in_o this_o case_n most_o evident_a for_o leave_v the_o bare_a name_n and_o title_n and_o consider_v our_o ministry_n in_o all_o the_o essential_a part_n and_o office_n thereof_o and_o it_o be_v a_o possible_a either_o for_o a_o presbythery_a or_o for_o any_o particular_a church_n such_o in_o constitution_n as_o their_o own_o to_o ordain_v the_o like_a ministry_n in_o all_o point_n and_o respect_n with_o all_o the_o defect_n and_o fault_n thereof_o 2._o concern_v the_o first_o proof_n of_o the_o assumption_n the_o proposition_n may_v be_v deny_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o be_v and_o another_o to_o make_v claine_v to_o be_v for_o every_o one_o be_v not_o that_o which_o he_o claim_v to_o be_v the_o instance_n allege_v to_o prove_v the_o assumption_n either_o be_v false_a or_o prove_v it_o not_o the_o law_n may_v give_v their_o title_n to_o man_n which_o they_o do_v not_o claim_v neither_o do_v either_o their_o canon_n or_o practice_n show_v that_o they_o prescribe_v their_o own_o ordinance_n for_o worship_n or_o propound_v to_o bind_v man_n conscience_n to_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o any_o such_o matter_n the_o profess_v the_o contrary_a and_o urge_v their_o own_o ordinance_n only_o under_o the_o name_n of_o thing_n indifferent_a though_o therefore_o in_o error_n of_o judgement_n they_o may_v and_o happy_o do_v command_v such_o ordinance_n of_o their_o own_o as_o be_v divine_a worship_n and_o in_o such_o a_o manner_n as_o it_o bind_v conscience_n which_o m._n johnsons_n own_o church_n in_o many_o case_n may_v do_v except_o they_o think_v themselves_o privilege_v from_o error_n yet_o they_o protest_v against_o any_o such_o power_n and_o authority_n they_o can_v be_v say_v therein_o to_o arrogate_v the_o office_n of_o spiritual_a lord_n in_o that_o sense_n at_o least_o in_o which_o christ_n be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o only_a spiritual_a lord_n and_o though_o in_o their_o ordination_n of_o minister_n they_o use_v as_o a_o ceremonial_a speech_n to_o say_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o therein_o peradventure_o offer_v some_o force_n unto_o the_o scripture_n unto_o which_o the_o allude_v yet_o they_o disclaim_v all_o actual_a power_n and_o authority_n of_o give_v the_o person_n or_o gift_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n unto_o man_n it_o shall_v be_v needless_a in_o this_o controversy_n to_o spend_v time_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o call_n of_o bishop_n any_o further_a than_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o argument_n require_v only_o for_o the_o further_o clear_v of_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o difference_n of_o they_o of_o the_o separation_n not_o only_o from_o the_o bishop_n but_o from_o the_o other_o sort_n of_o minister_n also_o which_o do_v not_o approve_v of_o their_o calling_n i_o offer_v these_o point_n unto_o they_o to_o consider_v of_o advise_o 1._o whether_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n have_v not_o power_n to_o over_o see_v and_o govern_v all_o the_o several_a church_n with_o in_o his_o dominion_n yea_o whether_o he_o be_v not_o bind_v so_o to_o do_v 2._o whether_o for_o his_o further_a help_n and_o assistance_n herein_o he_o may_v not_o make_v choice_n of_o grave_a learned_a and_o reverend_a man_n to_o assist_v he_o in_o the_o same_o government_n 3._o whether_o by_o virtue_n of_o his_o power_n these_o person_n thus_o call_v to_o assist_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n may_v not_o lawful_o try_v the_o gift_n of_o all_o the_o several_a minister_n with_o in_o his_o dominion_n and_o give_v public_a approbation_n of_o the_o worthy_a &_o inhibit_v those_o which_o they_o find_v unworthy_a from_o the_o execution_n of_o their_o ministry_n &_o whether_o they_o may_v not_o visit_v the_o several_a minister_n and_o church_n convent_n they_o before_o they_o examine_v they_o how_o they_o have_v behave_v themselves_o in_o their_o place_n and_o punish_v the_o blame_n worthy_a 4._o whether_o for_o the_o more_o easy_a and_o orderly_a government_n of_o the_o say_a church_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o appertain_v to_o he_o he_o may_v not_o divide_v his_o kingdom_n as_o we_o be_v into_o province_n assign_v over_o each_o of_o they_o under_o himself_o some_o special_a magistrate_n for_o learning_n and_o experience_n to_o oversee_v and_o govern_v all_o the_o particular_a church_n there_o and_o whether_o he_o may_v not_o subdevide_v those_o province_n into_o diocese_n assign_v also_o to_o they_o other_o more_o inferior_a officer_n under_o he_o and_o his_o provincial_a officer_n to_o over_o see_v the_o several_a church_n with_o in_o such_o and_o such_o a_o precinct_n 5._o whether_o it_o do_v destroy_v the_o nature_n of_o a_o ministerial_a or_o a_o particular_a true_a visible_a church_n that_o many_o of_o they_o shall_v appertain_v unto_o one_o provincial_n or_o diocesame_a government_n though_o in_o that_o respect_n they_o shall_v be_v hold_v and_o repute_v but_o for_o one_o provincial_n or_o diocesame_a church_n 6._o whether_o antichrist_n have_v usurp_v the_o king_n supremacy_n and_o take_v into_o his_o hand_n this_o authority_n and_o corrupt_v the_o same_o have_v make_v it_o now_o unlawful_a for_o the_o magistrate_n to_o execute_v the_o same_o in_o manner_n and_o form_n a_o fore_n say_v or_o whether_o the_o jurisdiction_n a_o fore_n say_v do_v not_o