not_o only_o affirm_v the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v too_o like_a to_o paganism_n in_o the_o adoration_n of_o image_n but_o condemn_v the_o pray_n to_o angel_n as_o the_o idolatry_n condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n as_o dr._n st._n show_v from_o his_o m_n s._n note_n upon_o bellarmine_n to_o these_o dr._n st._n add_v in_o his_o general_n preface_n the_o testimony_n of_o archbishop_n bancroft_n bishop_n montague_n pet._n heylin_n and_o mr._n thorndike_n which_o three_o last_n be_v the_o very_a person_n t._n g._n do_v appeal_n to_o and_o the_o last_o of_o they_o do_v declare_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n be_v such_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o no_o good_a christian_n dare_v trust_v his_o soul_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o which_o be_v all_o one_o as_o to_o say_v they_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v they_o only_o reprove_v some_o practice_n as_o idolatrous_a or_o at_o least_o in_o danger_n to_o be_v such_o but_o dr._n st._n acknowledge_v that_o they_o excuse_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o p._n d._n do_v he_o indeed_o say_v so_o or_o be_v this_o another_o piece_n of_o t._n g.'s_n fineness_n his_o word_n be_v these_o and_o although_o it_o may_v be_v only_o a_o excess_n of_o charity_n in_o some_o few_o learned_a person_n to_o excuse_v that_o church_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o and_o then_o produce_v the_o seventeen_o testimony_n to_o show_v he_o do_v not_o differ_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o the_o eminent_a defender_n of_o it_o ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n and_o do_v you_o think_v that_o among_o his_o testimony_n he_o will_v produce_v any_o who_o he_o think_v to_o free_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n no_o certain_o but_o i_o suppose_v that_o clause_n refer_v to_o mr._n thorndike_n and_o some_o few_o other_o and_o as_o to_o mr._n thorndike_n he_o afterward_o produce_v the_o passage_n before_o mention_v out_o of_o some_o paper_n write_v by_o he_o a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o that_o r._n p._n not_o a_o word_n more_o but_o i_o find_v he_o make_v use_v of_o mr._n thorndikes_n name_n on_o all_o occasion_n as_o if_o he_o favour_v our_o side_n against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o dr._n st._n and_o the_o man_n who_o manage_v the_o dialogue_n against_o he_o be_v bring_v in_o as_o one_o of_o mr._n thorndikes_n principle_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o be_v not_o he_o a_o man_n in_o his_o heart_n of_o our_o church_n and_o only_o live_v in_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o you_o p._n d._n d._n st._n have_v give_v a_o just_a character_n of_o he_o when_o he_o call_v he_o a_o man_n of_o excellent_a learning_n and_o great_a piety_n and_o since_o so_o ill_a use_n be_v make_v of_o his_o name_n in_o these_o dispute_n and_o such_o dishonour_n do_v to_o his_o memory_n i_o shall_v but_o do_v he_o right_o to_o let_v you_o understand_v what_o his_o judgement_n be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o he_o deliver_v in_o a_o paper_n to_o a_o lady_n a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n from_o who_o it_o come_v immediate_o to_o my_o hand_n and_o be_v the_o same_o paper_n dr._n st._n do_v refer_v to_o 1._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o of_o the_o scripture_n be_v presuppose_v to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 2._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n maintain_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o present_a church_n to_o be_v infallible_a which_o be_v false_a and_o yet_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v submit_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 3._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o make_v void_a the_o baptism_n of_o those_o sect_n which_o do_v not_o baptise_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o that_o baptism_n be_v void_a and_o true_a baptism_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o salvation_n 4._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o schism_n follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n if_o you_o except_v only_a thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o be_v believe_v this_o show_v that_o infallibility_n only_o in_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v not_o enough_o it_o be_v destructive_a to_o salvation_n to_o follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n in_o schism_n instance_n the_o schism_n with_o the_o greek_a church_n for_o appeal_n to_o rome_n for_o there_o be_v evident_a tradition_n to_o the_o contrary_n 5._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v apocryphal_a scripture_n to_o be_v esteem_v canonical_a scripture_n but_o this_o injunction_n be_v contrary_a to_o tradition_n and_o truth_n and_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o receive_v it_o 6._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o receive_v the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n for_o canonical_a scripture_n as_o now_o it_o do_v and_o as_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o declare_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n 7._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v err_v in_o teach_v that_o attrition_n be_v turn_v into_o contrition_n by_o submit_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n but_o this_o error_n be_v destructive_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o may_v err_v in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n because_o of_o the_o condition_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n which_o be_v before_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n 8._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n and_o to_o profess_v that_o which_o be_v false_a for_o there_o be_v scripture_n and_o tradition_n for_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o transubstantiation_n viz._n for_o abolish_n the_o element_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o for_o which_o there_o be_v neither_o tradition_n nor_o scripture_n witness_v the_o father_n that_o own_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n 9_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o christ_n institute_v a_o new_a passeover_n to_o be_v sacrifice_v as_o well_o as_o represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v in_o the_o eucharist_n the_o sacrific_a missae_fw-la cap._n 1._o which_o be_v false_a for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n cross_n be_v commemorate_a represent_v and_o offer_v as_o ready_a to_o be_v slay_v in_o and_o by_o the_o eucharist_n but_o not_o slay_v and_o therefore_o not_o sacrifice_v in_o it_o and_o by_o celebrate_v it_o and_o therefore_o when_o it_o be_v say_v there_o c._n 11._o quod_fw-la in_o missa_fw-la christus_fw-la incruentè_fw-fr immolatur_fw-la if_o it_o be_v mean_v proper_o it_o be_v a_o contradiction_n for_o that_o which_o have_v blood_n be_v not_o sacrifice_v but_o by_o shed_v the_o blood_n of_o it_o if_o figurative_o it_o signify_v no_o more_o than_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v that_o it_o be_v represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v as_o slay_v and_o therefore_o all_o part_n agree_v to_o this_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v more_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o schism_n that_o come_v by_o refuse_v it_o for_o the_o propitiation_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o propitiation_n of_o christ_n cross_n purchase_v for_o they_o that_o be_v qualify_v 10._o the_o council_n of_o trent_n commend_v the_o mass_n without_o the_o communion_n cap._n 6._o wherein_o it_o err_v for_o the_o communion_n be_v the_o restore_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o baptism_n after_o sin_n the_o want_n of_o it_o without_o the_o desire_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v lament_v not_o commend_v as_o destructive_a of_o the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n 11._o there_o be_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o pray_v to_o saint_n depart_v or_o any_o evidence_n that_o they_o hear_v our_o prayer_n therefore_o it_o evidence_n a_o carnal_a hope_n that_o god_n will_v abate_v of_o the_o covenant_n of_o our_o baptism_n which_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o our_o salvation_n for_o their_o sake_n 12._o to_o pray_v to_o they_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o only_a god_n can_v give_v as_o all_o papist_n do_v be_v by_o the_o proper_a sense_n of_o their_o word_n downright_a idolatry_n if_o they_o say_v their_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o figure_n only_o to_o desire_v they_o to_o procure_v their_o request_n of_o god_n how_o dare_v any_o
our_o interest_n but_o none_o that_o understand_v and_o value_v our_o church_n will_v endure_v such_o a_o pernicious_a discrimination_n among_o the_o son_n of_o the_o same_o mother_n as_o though_o some_o few_o be_v fatal_o determine_v to_o be_v the_o son_n of_o our_o church_n whatever_o their_o work_n and_o merit_n be_v and_o other_o absolute_o cast_v off_o notwithstanding_o the_o great_a service_n i_o shall_v not_o mention_v this_o but_o that_o i_o see_v t._n g._n insinuate_v all_o along_o such_o a_o distinction_n as_o this_o and_o cry_v up_o some_o person_n on_o purpose_n as_o the_o only_a genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o he_o may_v cast_v reproach_n upon_o other_o and_o thereby_o foment_n animosity_n among_o brethren_n but_o who_o child_n those_o be_v who_o do_v so_o i_o leave_v t._n g._n to_o consider_v r._n p._n whatever_o t._n g.'s_n intention_n be_v yet_o you_o can_v deny_v that_o he_o have_v prove_v two_o part_n in_o three_o to_o be_v incompetent_a 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out_o of_o the_o affection_n catharinus_n hope_n he_o bear_v still_o to_o the_o cause_n which_o have_v be_v honour_v by_o such_o learned_a and_o godly_a bishop_n as_o jewel_n downham_n Ê‹sher_n the_o two_o abbot_n and_o davenant_n which_o be_v record_v among_o the_o puritan_n by_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la p._n d._n you_o may_v as_o well_o have_v quote_v surius_n &_o cochlaeus_fw-la for_o your_o church_n as_o this_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la for_o we_o for_o he_o be_v a_o historian_n much_o of_o their_o size_n and_o credit_n but_o of_o he_o we_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v hereafter_o t._n g._n fill_v page_n after_o page_n out_o of_o he_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_n whether_o dr._n st._n do_v not_o show_v t._n g.'s_n exception_n to_o be_v vain_a and_o srivolous_a and_o consequent_o these_o remain_v substantial_a and_o competent_a witness_n and_o as_o to_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o these_o learned_a and_o pious_a prelate_n defend_v and_o honour_v dr._n st._n will_v rejoice_v to_o be_v join_v with_o they_o though_o it_o be_v in_o suffer_v reproach_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o it_o r._n p._n let_v we_o pass_v over_o these_o single_a testimony_n and_o come_v to_o the_o most_o material_a proof_n which_o dr._n st._n use_v and_o t._n g._n declare_v he_o be_v not_o yet_o convince_v by_o they_o that_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n with_o all_o my_o heart_n the_o first_o be_v from_o the_o book_n of_o homily_n not_o bare_o allow_v but_o subscribe_v to_o as_o contain_v godly_a and_o wholesome_a doctrine_n very_o necessary_a for_o these_o time_n which_o own_v this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n not_o in_o any_o doubtful_a or_o single_a passage_n but_o in_o a_o elaborate_a discourse_n intend_v for_o the_o teacher_n as_o well_o as_o the_o people_n to_o which_o he_o add_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o homily_n be_v allow_v in_o the_o thirty_o 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think_v he_o say_v that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n will_v have_v allow_v calvin_n institution_n as_o contain_v a_o wholesome_a and_o godly_a doctrine_n as_o that_o man_n so_o persuade_v will_v have_v allow_v the_o homily_n against_o the_o peril_n of_o idolatry_n and_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a to_o understand_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n better_o than_o by_o such_o public_a and_o authentic_a act_n of_o it_o which_o all_o person_n who_o be_v in_o any_o place_n of_o trust_n in_o the_o church_n must_v subscribe_v and_o declare_v their_o approbation_n of_o this_o homily_n have_v still_o continue_v the_o same_o the_o article_n the_o very_a same_o and_o if_o so_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v this_o have_v be_v and_o be_v to_o this_o day_n the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n and_o to_o what_o t._n g._n say_v that_o this_o do_v not_o evince_v every_o particular_a doctrine_n contain_v in_o the_o homily_n to_o be_v godly_a and_o wholesome_a because_o the_o whole_a book_n be_v 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of_o idolatry_n be_v not_o only_o own_v by_o the_o composer_n of_o the_o homily_n but_o by_o all_o who_o have_v honest_o subscribe_v to_o the_o article_n from_o that_o time_n to_o our_o own_o and_o i_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o hear_v what_o answer_n t._n g._n give_v to_o all_o this_o r._n p._n he_o answer_v first_o by_o repeat_v what_o he_o say_v before_o and_o then_o by_o show_v that_o subscription_n be_v no_o good_a argument_n 15._o consider_v what_o have_v be_v do_v and_o undo_v in_o that_o kind_n in_o the_o reign_v of_o k._n henry_n 8._o edw._n 6._o q._n marry_o and_o q._n elizabeth_n not_o to_o speak_v of_o latter_a time_n p._n d._n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o say_v the_o subscriber_n of_o our_o article_n be_v man_n of_o no_o honesty_n or_o conscience_n but_o will_v say_v or_o unsay_v subscribe_v one_o thing_n or_o another_o as_o it_o serve_v their_o turn_n if_o this_o be_v his_o way_n of_o defend_v our_o church_n we_o shall_v desire_v he_o to_o defend_v his_o 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resolve_v to_o believe_v it_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o church_n can_v never_o persuade_v any_o man_n that_o be_v not_o r._n p._n when_o you_o be_v get_v to_o this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v hard_o to_o get_v you_o off_o it_o be_v the_o sore_a place_n of_o our_o church_n and_o you_o be_v like_o fly_n in_o summer_n always_o busy_a about_o it_o i_o pray_v return_n to_o your_o rubric_n for_o you_o seem_v to_o have_v forget_v it_o p._n d._n no_o i_o have_v be_v pursue_v it_o hitherto_o r._n p._n but_o what_o say_v you_o to_o t._n g.'s_n reason_n why_o this_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o corporeal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n because_o you_o else_o overthrow_v the_o doctrine_n of_o a_o real_a presence_n which_o have_v be_v account_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o rubric_n say_v express_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n to_o be_v at_o 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that_o doctrine_n mark_n that_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o very_a same_o which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o rose_n from_o the_o dead_a and_o this_o appear_v from_o his_o epistle_n to_o heribaldus_n still_o extant_a wherein_o he_o say_v he_o declare_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n beside_o the_o anonymus_fw-la author_n publish_v by_o cellotius_n the_o only_a person_n about_o that_o time_n who_o appear_v in_o behalf_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o paschasius_fw-la and_o very_o inconsiderable_a in_o comparison_n of_o his_o adversary_n confess_v the_o opposition_n make_v to_o paschasius_fw-la by_o rabanus_n and_o ratramnus_n and_o endeavour_n to_o excuse_v his_o simplicity_n in_o assert_v that_o the_o same_o flesh_n of_o christ_n be_v upon_o the_o altar_n which_o be_v
be_v not_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v a_o part_n of_o that_o jurisdiction_n which_o t._n g._n do_v distinguish_v from_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n yes_o without_o doubt_n p._n d._n be_v not_o this_o power_n give_v by_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n in_o your_o church_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o what_o then_o p._n d._n do_v not_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v the_o character_n be_v imprint_v upon_o say_v those_o word_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la etc._n etc._n r._n p._n what_o will_v you_o be_v at_o p._n d._n be_v the_o character_n of_o order_n give_v by_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o and_o carry_v no_o effect_n along_o with_o they_o r._n p._n no_o certain_o p._n d._n then_o these_o word_n have_v their_o effect_n upon_o every_o man_n that_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n and_o what_o then_o p._n d._n then_o every_o one_o who_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n have_v the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o 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dr._n st._n must_v he_o be_v upbraid_v with_o ignorance_n error_n and_o tergiversation_n because_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o indelible_a character_n on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n r._n p._n no_o that_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n but_o because_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n p._n d._n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o if_o i_o do_v not_o forget_v he_o have_v this_o very_a distinction_n in_o that_o pestilent_a book_n call_v irenicum_fw-la which_o t._n g._n hit_v he_o in_o the_o tooth_n with_o on_o all_o occasion_n r._n p._n but_o he_o do_v not_o or_o will_v not_o understand_v it_o
give_v doulia_fw-la to_o christ_n to_o be_v idolatry_n 5._o that_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o idol_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o mere_a imaginary_a figment_n or_o chimaera_n that_o it_o be_v attribute_v by_o the_o father_n to_o the_o most_o excellent_a be_v even_o to_o christ_n himself_o when_o divine_a worship_n be_v give_v to_o he_o as_o a_o creature_n these_o be_v matter_n of_o great_a moment_n if_o they_o hold_v good_a do_v he_o pass_v all_o these_o by_o only_o to_o fall_v upon_o one_o single_a testimony_n if_o he_o do_v it_o be_v a_o shrewd_a sign_n though_o he_o cry_v out_o of_o gregory_n nyssen_n yet_o he_o be_v pinch_v somewhere_o else_o well_o but_o what_o be_v this_o horrible_a crime_n about_o gregory_n nyssen_n have_v he_o bring_v he_o under_o a_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la have_v he_o falsify_v his_o word_n and_o corrupt_v the_o text_n or_o have_v he_o wilful_o alter_v his_o sense_n and_o meaning_n have_v he_o do_v it_o in_o all_o the_o quotation_n out_o of_o he_o or_o only_o in_o one_o whatever_o it_o be_v let_v we_o have_v it_o r._n p._n it_o be_v in_o the_o citation_n out_o of_o his_o oration_n de_fw-fr laudibus_fw-la basilii_fw-la p._n d._n but_o the_o dr._n have_v three_o or_o four_o more_o out_o of_o the_o same_o author_n it_o seem_v they_o stand_v well_o enough_o have_v not_o the_o dr._n true_o cite_v his_o word_n r._n p._n yes_o t._n g._n say_v as_o to_o the_o general_a true_o enough_o p._n d._n what_o be_v the_o fault_n then_o r._n p._n that_o he_o do_v not_o add_v the_o word_n that_o follow_v wherein_o he_o show_v what_o kind_n of_o worship_n that_o be_v which_o the_o arian_n give_v to_o christ_n etc._n viz._n not_o only_o to_o worship_n and_o serve_v he_o but_o also_o to_o six_o hope_n of_o salvation_n in_o a_o creature_n and_o to_o expect_v judgement_n from_o it_o and_o be_v it_o not_o neat_o do_v of_o the_o doctor_n to_o wrap_v up_o all_o this_o in_o those_o short_a word_n the_o devil_n persuade_v man_n to_o return_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o creature_n which_o be_v a_o laconism_n not_o observe_v by_o he_o on_o other_o occasion_n but_o it_o be_v here_o do_v on_o purpose_n to_o conceal_v from_o the_o reader_n the_o apparent_a difference_n between_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o arian_n worship_n of_o christ._n p._n d._n i_o be_o glad_a it_o be_v out_o at_o last_o after_o so_o much_o strain_v see_v how_o much_o choler_n there_o be_v in_o it_o indeed_o it_o may_v have_v do_v he_o much_o harm_n if_o he_o have_v keep_v it_o in_o any_o long_o but_o i_o wonder_v the_o laconic_a gentleman_n do_v complain_v of_o shortness_n do_v you_o think_v the_o laconian_a in_o boccalini_n will_v have_v make_v such_o a_o noise_n for_o miss_v a_o page_n or_o two_o in_o guicciardins_n war_n of_o pisa_n do_v you_o in_o earnest_n think_v dr._n st._n shall_v take_v such_o pain_n to_o conceal_v that_o which_o every_o one_o know_v that_o the_o arian_n fix_v their_o hope_n of_o salvation_n on_o christ_n and_o expect_v he_o to_o come_v to_o judgement_n what_o wonderful_a discovery_n be_v this_o which_o t._n g._n have_v make_v nay_o dr._n st._n himself_o take_v notice_n of_o this_o objection_n 519._o that_o they_o do_v give_v a_o high_a degree_n of_o worship_n to_o christ_n than_o any_o do_v to_o saint_n and_o return_v this_o answer_n to_o it_o that_o they_o do_v only_o give_v a_o degree_n of_o worship_n proportionable_a to_o the_o degree_n of_o excellency_n suppose_v to_o be_v in_o he_o far_o above_o any_o other_o creature_n whatsoever_o but_o still_o that_o worship_n be_v inferior_a to_o that_o which_o they_o give_v to_o god_n the_o father_n and_o at_o the_o high_a such_o as_o the_o platonist_n give_v to_o their_o celestial_a deity_n and_o although_o the_o arian_n do_v invocate_v christ_n and_o put_v their_o trust_n in_o he_o yet_o they_o still_o suppose_v he_o to_o be_v a_o creature_n and_o therefore_o believe_v that_o all_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n he_o have_v be_v 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hope_v he_o will_v consider_v better_o of_o it_o r._n p._n you_o may_v jest_v as_o you_o please_v at_o this_o answer_n but_o the_o second_o be_v a_o very_a solid_a one_o for_o t._n g._n show_v the_o parallel_n to_o be_v inconsistent_a both_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o arian_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n p._n d._n what_o parallel_n do_v he_o mean_a dr._n st._n prove_v from_o hence_o inferior_a relative_a worship_n give_v to_o a_o creature_n to_o be_v idolatry_n in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n be_v this_o true_a or_o be_v it_o not_o r._n p._n you_o have_v not_o patience_n to_o hear_v t._n g.'s_n answer_v out_o for_o 1._o he_o say_v the_o father_n do_v acknowledge_v a_o worship_n due_a to_o the_o saint_n etc._n and_o particular_o gregory_z nyssen_n in_o a_o oration_n produce_v by_o he_o and_o therefore_o if_o they_o have_v condemn_v the_o arian_n of_o idolatry_n for_o give_v only_o a_o like_a worship_n to_o christ_n though_o in_o a_o high_a degree_n they_o have_v 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understand_v to_o be_v due_a only_o to_o god_n incarnate_a which_o make_v their_o case_n very_o much_o different_a from_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o give_v to_o saint_n and_o image_n only_o such_o act_n of_o worship_n as_o by_o the_o common_a use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n before_o luther_n be_v determine_v and_o understand_v when_o apply_v to_o saint_n and_o image_n to_o express_v a_o inferior_a degree_n of_o reverence_n or_o worship_n than_o what_o be_v due_a to_o god_n himself_o this_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o t._n g.'s_n answer_n p._n d._n i_o confess_v t._n g._n now_o offer_v something_o worthy_a a_o serious_a debate_n which_o may_v be_v reduce_v to_o these_o two_o thing_n 1._o what_o those_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v which_o the_o arian_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n for_o give_v to_o christ_n suppose_v he_o a_o creature_n 2._o how_o far_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v liable_a to_o the_o same_o charge_n for_o the_o worship_n she_o give_v to_o saint_n and_o image_n 1._o for_o the_o act_n of_o worship_n which_o the_o arian_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n in_o give_v to_o christ_n as_o a_o creature_n the_o strength_n of_o t._n g.'s_n answer_n lie_v in_o two_o thing_n 1._o that_o they_o be_v give_v absolute_o to_o christ_n as_o a_o lesser_a god_n 2._o that_o they_o be_v such_o act_n which_o by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n do_v signify_v proper_a divine_a worship_n 1._o let_v we_o consider_v whether_o the_o worship_n give_v to_o christ_n can_v be_v absolute_a upon_o their_o supposition_n that_o christ_n be_v a_o creature_n t._n g._n speak_v somewhat_o faint_o in_o this_o matter_n at_o first_o say_v only_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v absolute_a