Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	believe_v	scripture_n	tradition_n	2,838	5	9.5550	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20949	The Iesuites shifts, and euasions; or, his deportment in controuersies of religion. Or, A treatise, wherein the causes are examined why Mr. Arnoux the Iesuite, refuseth to answere to seauenteene questions propounded by the ministers of the church of Paris Wherein also the treatise of fiue euasions which he hath added to the examination of our confession, is likewise examined and answered: by Peter Du Moulin.; Fuites et évasions du Sieur Arnoux. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.	1624 (1624)	STC 7328; ESTC S111074	27,667	44

and yet not ascribe the title of Reformators vnto themselues And although we should call our selues reformers is it not Mr. Arnoux dutie to shew vs that there is nothing to be reformed in the Church of Rome by prouing his beleefe by the Word of God thereby to withdraw vs from this vnprofitable labour and to hinder vs from applying any more plasters where there is no wound Then that likewise should not hinder him from answering vnto vs. 4 That which followeth is no better vntill saith he that they haue confuted my Paper of confrontation against the which they haue written it were a kind of folly in mee to grant them such a disloyall and friuolous digression For answere hereunto I say that we haue in such manner confuted his confrontations that they are become ridiculous His accusations did not merit the paines were tooke therein but we had a respect to the dignitie of the persons in whose presence he pronounced them And when any man moueth vs to render a reason of our beleefe it is no digression to cause him to yeeld a reason of his owne beleefe For a man alwayes to aske questions and neuer to make answere to any thing that another askes him besides the vniust vsurpation it is a confession of his owne Ignorance For he that askes desireth to be instructed and hee that will not answere silently confesseth that he is not able to giue instruction And if when we make these questions vnto him we should vse a digression yet seeing that our people are not seperated from the Church of Rome and because we cannot satisfie their demaunds by the Word of God it is Mr. Arnoux part to supply their want therein and to giue them instruction Seeing that if his cause be good he shall haue lesse paines to produce a place out of the Scripture touching euery one of our 17. demaunds then to seeke for so many shifts He takes more paines to shew the reasons why he answereth not then he should haue had to answere vs. 5 The fift reason is excellent When saith he they shall plainly and freely confesse that they can no more brag and boast of the Word of God and that their confession is wholly abolished and that it is no more to be spoken of Then I will make no difficultie to instruct them in my beleefe and it shall not be to the end to make them account thereof but to winne them to God He will haue me to leaue my owne Religion before he instructs me in his beleefe but in the meane time what Religion shall I hold while I attend his instruction This is excellent counsell to wish me to leaue my Religion without taking another in a certaine time after and that I should renounce my confession of the faith before I know whether he that induceth me to doe it hath a good religion And if after I haue left my Religion without taking another I come to Mr. Arnoux to learne his faith of him and that therein hee doth not content me shall I remaine without Religion or shall I take that againe which I left That is as much as if a man should leaue his owne Religion not knowing wherefore For I cannot know that my Religion is false vnlesse I know that the contrary Religion is true This Doctor hath learned all this from Father Gontri that published diuers small Treaties wherein are found these slender shifts and childish conceipts to learne men to exempt themselues from answering alwayes to aske questions and to bind vs to proue our allegations in as many words and syllables out of the holy Scripture 6 Lastly after so many ouerthwartings Truth giueth Mr. Arnoux a blow and draweth this confession from him Such questions saith hee cannot be made by those that know well that we neuer promised as they haue done neither yet protested in any of our Articles that we ought not to beleeue any thing but that which is formerly set downe in the Scripture and in expresse termes to the contrary wee hold traditions which they reproue and reiect He should haue said so at the first without seeking so many ouerthwartings and delayes Then he confesseth that he cannot answer our questions by the Scripture and that those points whereof we desire a proofe are not proued by the Word of God contained in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles but by tradition and by the vnwritten Word That is to say that these doctrines are neither in the Law of God nor in the Gospell for in the holy Scriptures the Law of God is whole and the Gospell whole and not halfe vnlesse the title be false And yet these 17. points are the principall points of the Romish Religion and which are held to be necessary for saluation which are the causes of our separation Then be it knowne to all the Realme of France that Mr. Arnoux being at this day seated in so eminent a place after hee hath defied vs with so solemne a defiance in the presence of his Maiestie and of the greatest persons of this Realme hath bled at the nose confesseth his own weaknesse and acknowledgeth that his Religion is not grounded vpon the Word of God contained in the holy Scriptures but vpon an vnwritten Word and vpon Traditions which haue no other rule nor certainty then the authority of those that propound them and who by that tradition haue heaped vp infinite riches and builded an Empire vpon earth While the holy Scriptures which is able to make vs wise to saluation is hidden and withdrawne from the peoples sight And that we on the contrary haue from point to point satisfied and answered to all his questions and obiections Blessed bee the Name of God that makes truth to triumph and drawes our aduersaries condemnation out of their owne mouthes Then with good reason he addeth these words saying they did well to conceiue that I would neuer vndertake an impertinent thing and that also which hee saith that wee would haue him lose dayes and nights and spoile his brest and his stomacke with so much writing and abandon his charge and then stay a long time for an answere and striking after one manner he should lose his blowes It is not impertinent to defend his cause by the word of God that paines will neither hurt nor spoile his brest nor stomacke For it is so hard a matter to produce a place out of the Scriptures for euery one of these 17. points and if not formall at the least such as haue some appearance thereof Touching the places of the Scripture alleadged by Pope Boniface the 8. and by the last Counsell of Lateran in so prodigious and prophane a sense Mr. Arnoux Arnoux p. 112. dares not maintaine such cotations of the Scripture nor yet reiect them least hee should condemne the Popes and their Counsels but findes a way betweene both saying That those proofes are not produced in the literall sense but in an accommodated and

rules not thinking thereon being insensibly thrust into them by the force of reason Whosoeuer will haue no consequences produced abolisheth all common sense and all vse of reason which onely consisteth therein The rules of Lodgique are no Articles of faith but instruments to mannage all knowledge by order and certainty and by consequence also matters of Diuinitie CHAP. VI. The third Euasion THe third Euasion which Master Arnoux saith we vse is that we serue our turnes with the circle in this that we proue those things to be Scripture by our particular spirit and proue that particular spirit by the Scripture Which is false and slanderous We leaue that particular spirit to mad men none of vs makes our selues Iudges of the Scriptures That is the Popes and his Prelates property who being assembled boast that they pronounce Iudgement touching points of faith and beleeue they cannot erre And our Aduersaries say that euery particular person of the Church of Rome doth certainly discerne the true Church which spirit or particular iudgement is meere blindnesse seeing that the poore people haue no other proofe to know that the Church of Rome is the true Church then onely the witnesse that the same Church giueth of itselfe Touching the circle if any serue their turnes therewith it is our aduersaries for they ground the authoritie of the Scripture vpon the testimony of the Church and yet ground the authoritie of the Church vpon testimonies of the Scripture as one that hauing placed the walles of a house vpon the foundation afterward should place the foundation vpon the walles When we aske them how they know that wee must beleeue the bookes of the new Testament They answere and say because the Church saith it and ordaines it to be so and when we say that how know you that wee must beleeue the Church because say they that the bookes of the New Testament say so and ordaine it to be so for there it is written Tell it vnto the Church c. Certainely as often as they alledge the Scriptures to ground and authorize their Church they ouerthrow that which they will haue men to beleeue which is that the authority of the Scripture is grounded vpon the authority of the Church And thereby are tyed to rowle the circle as Diogenes is to his tub and ouerturne their owne wits by this circulation But when we aske one of them and say how know you that your Church teacheth the true Doctrine or how know you that it is conformable to the ancient Church There they are at a stay and the circle rowles no more and so they are dumbe by necessity For how shall they know the true Doctrine seeing the rule of the true Doctrine which is the holy Scripture is hidden from them And how should they know whether their Church is conformable to the ancient Church seeing it is not knowne but by an infinite number of Greeke and Latine Bookes which the people vnderstand not Then the people must know that the Church of Rome teacheth the true Doctrine onely because those that teach it say so which is to belieue at hazard and to haue a humane Religion grounded vpon coniectures without the Word of God and to allow a man to be a witnesse and a Iudge in his owne cause Therefore Master Arnoux giueth markes to know the true Church without speaking of the holy Scriptures Pag. 119. which are all false First The consent of the people But there are a greater number of the people that disagree with the Church of Rome than those that agree therewith And Iesus Christ saith that broad is the way that leadeth to destruction Math. 7.13.14 and many there be which goe in thereat because straite is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth vnto life and few there be that finde it Then he addeth the testimony of Martyrs a false marke for there shall neuer be any Martyrs found that died for calling vpon Saints or for Transubstantiation or for Purgatory They suffered death for the doctrine of the Gospell for the which our poore Churches haue suffered so many martyrdomes by meanes of the Church of Rome which suffereth no more but maketh martyrs suffer For a third marke he placeth the authority of the Fathers But the Fathers are contrary to the Doctrine of the Romish Church the people cannot looke into them And Master Arnoux speaketh by heare-say for in his Booke he alledgeth but foure or fiue places out of the Fathers which are not found to be false and corrupted For a fourth marke hee puts the eminence of the Doctrine I thinke that by the eminence hee vnderstandeth the excellency which consisteth in purity and conformity to the Word of God Without proofe to say that the Church of Rome hath the purity of Doctrine it is without proofe to pre-suppose that which is in question To the contrary we haue proued against Master Arnoux that Poperie is a heape of errours and a corruption of Christianitie And how should the people know that purity of Doctrine seeing they hide the rule of purity which is the holy Scriptures from them For the last marke hee se●teth succession neuer interrupted It he vnderstandeth a succession of doctrine wee deny it if he vnderstandeth a succession of chaires without Doctrine that succession is nothing Many other Churches also which condemne the Church of Rome haue their succession and that ancienter than the Romane And schismes haue often broken the succession of the Romish Bishopricke And how can the people know any thing touching this succession which cannot be learned but by reading of infinite Histories and Greeke and Latine Authors that haue written for the space of one thousand sixe hundred yeares CHAP. VII The fourth Euasion THe aduersary noteth another Euasion wherewith wee serue our turnes as he saith which is to produce diuers places of Scripture one with another whereof the one serueth to interpret the other For example he saith that wee expound these words This is my body by this place I am the Vine wherein hee slandereth vs. We know well that these words I am the Vine are not the exposition of these words This is my body Wee note not those places I am the Vine I am the dore This cup is the Couenant The rocke was Christ to interpret these words This is my body but to shew that whosoeuer will alwaies take the words of the holy Scripture literally and leaue these interpretations whereby the Scripture expresseth it selfe should often fall into great absurdities and to shew that ordinarily the Scripture nameth the signes and Sacraments by the names of that which they represent CHAP. VIII The fift Euasion THe fift Euasion which Master Arnoux imputeth vnto vs is a Chaos of confused calumniations He saith that we attribute things to the Church of Rome which shee beleeueth not That we charge the Popes with injuries That wee reiect the originall Text of the Scripture that is the Hebrew and the Greeke