Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n
Text snippets containing the quad
|
ID |
Title |
Author |
Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
STC |
Words |
Pages |
|
A20660
|
A disproufe of M. Novvelles reproufe. By Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie
|
Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577?
|
1565
(1565)
|
STC 7061; ESTC S116516
|
309,456
|
442
|
or perhappes the solemne cuppe councell in Martin Luthers house at Wittemberg as I am to defend the couÌ„cel of Nice Ephesus or LateranuÌ„ Well M. Nowell neither shall you at this tyme bring furthe youre Confession of Augspurg or the solemne conclusion agreed vpon at Martin Luthers house nor I wil alleage Howe S. AusteÌ„ renounced the auctoritie of the Nicene councell either the councell of Nice Ephesus or Lateranum but the scriptures c. then I saie you coulde proue hereby that I who trusting vppon the goodnesse of the cause quit for the tyme the alleaging of the councelles were of the minde that the auctoritye of the councelles made nothing for the decision of controuersies And that this was the meaning of S. Augustine to relinquishe onelye for that present tyme the auctoritie of the councell off Nice that the heretike might forsake his schismaticall councell not that he estemed either the councell of Nice or anie other laufull generall councell so lightly as yow suppose bothe this aduerbe nunc nowe whose nature is to limite and restreine whiche yowe fearing lest it woulde marre all the marcket and perceiuing that it woulde be harde to deceiue the learnedersorte with this place alleaged trulie in A lie by omission 65. the latine but left owt in the englishe thinking that youre parte shoulde be well enough plaied if yowe were able to blinde the ignorant and vnlearned bothe dothe this I saie argue the meaning of S. Austen to be as I saie and not as yow pretende and also that he dothe euerie where against the Donatistes alleage Concilium plaenarium totius orbis the Lib. 1. de baptis contra Donat. cap. 18. Epist 118. ad Ianuar. fo 72. a. 3. S. Austen beelied â—â— Howe the scripture is iudge and howe it is not iudge of aâ— controuersies full councell of all the world and saieth of councelles quorum est in ecclesia saluberima auctoritas whose auctoritie is in the churche moste wholesome It is not to be forgotten in this place that where S. Austen calleth the scripture by the name of a witnes yowe conclude that he calleth the scripture iudge Which if he had done might easelie haue bene answered to be true also when the churche hathe declared what the scripture ment As the lawes of all countries are the iudges of suche controuersies as rise there but not the iudges alone because they be subiecte to wrangling interpretations and therefore requier an other iudge to iudge their meaning But seing S. Austen calleth not the scripture iudge but witnes yowe haue delt vntrulie by concluding more vpon his wordes then is in them To the places brought here by yowe owt of Chrisostome Fol. 72. â— â–ª I answere that we saie as muche in the commendation of holie scripture as he doeth For none of those places make holie scripture the onelie sufficient triall of all controuersies Therefore where as they saie we muste beleue scripture rather then men that if we woulde beleue them we shoulde fall in to no errours we graunte it to be true in scripture as it is deliuered by the fathers and expounded by the church For the first place of S. Hierom he there reiected an allegation of vncerteine auctoritie commonly called ApocriphuÌ„ about the person of that Zachary which was slaine betwene Matth. 23. the teÌ„ple and the altar which because he knewe was not receiued by vniuersall tradition there remained no other grounde of prouing it but by scripture where sith it was not he might well saie it is as easely contemned as proued M. Nowelles ignorance in the writâ—nges off the fathers The laste place non adferamus stateras dolosas c. is not S. Hieromes as yow trusting ouer much Gratianus to whom belike yow haue recourse for youre auctorities owt of the doctours to auoide either furder paine either elles because yow delight not muche in suche companie reporte it here Lib. 2. de baptis cap. 6. to be It is taken owt of S. Austin M. Nowell a token that manie a man speaketh to vse the olde Englishe prouerbe of Robin hood that neuer shot in his bow and maketh nothing against me who wishe you would in dede way thinges with lesse deceitefull waightes of scripture theÌ„ you doe The places here noted owt of S. Austen and Chrisostom B. 14. touching the conference of one place of scripture with an other of the darcke and obscure with the clere and light are brought to proue conference to be good and proffitable which we denie not But that which we denie and therfore yow shoulde haue proued neither those places nor anie other that yow haue alleaged doe proue First that allwaies suche conference can assure vs of the true meaning of the scripture secondarily that in this conferring of places there is no difficultie varietie or vncerteintie which we affirme and proue to be because to one man to the Lutheran it semeth that hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie and verbum caro factum est the word is made flesh are places of like phrase and speache to yow M. Nowell it semeth that Ego sum vitis vera I am a true vyne is like to this This is my bodie Why yow will saie I haue proued this by Chrisostome who saieth Ad ipsum diuinae scripturae scopum accedamus quae Chrisost in 2. cap. Gen. Homil 13. seipsam interpretatur and againe Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Let vs come to the marcke of the holie scripture whiche expoundeth it selfe The holie scripture expouÌ„deth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre I knowe that these be Chrisostomes wordes I knowe that they make nothing for your purpose I knowe and be it knowen to all men that they are most shamefully by yowe abused and mangled For whereas Chrisostome confuting the errour of those that grounding them selues vpon this place of Genesis inspirauit in faciem eius Gen. 2. spiraculum vitae and he breathed vpon his face the breathe of life mainteined that the soule of man was off the same essence withe God where I saie Chrisostome specially in this pointe saieth that the scripture expoundeth it selfe you make him generally to saye that the scripture dothe so in all doubtes The whiche to persuade the better whereas the laste of those two sentences of Chrisostome by yowe alleaged hathe thus quamuis sacra scriptura quum nos tale Chrisostomes wordes mangled by M. Nowell quiddam docere vult seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Allthough the holye scripture when it wyll teache vs anye suche thinge expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre yowe mangling the sentence cutt awaie the middle wordes quum nos tale quiddam docere vult when it will teache vs anie such thing lest by those wordes the reader might vnderstande that Chrisostome gaue there no general rule but spake onely of that special pointe
the bishop had only this power more then a prieste that yow speake of Might not the meanest prieste in his diocesse for all this imagine and sowe emongest the people what lewde opinions he list and tell the bishop to his face if he shoulde reproue him therefore that he passeth the boundes of his office who hathe nothing elles to doe but to confirme suche as were lately baptised If this be true M. Nowell where is nowe Vnus ad tempus index vice Christi one iudge for the time Lib. 1. epistol 3. in the steede of Christe mentioned before by S. Cyprian and acknowledged by youre selfe to be the bishop in his diocesse If he be the iudge in Christes stede ouer al the rest then his power extendeth further I trowe then to confirmation For what iudiciall acte is there done in the ministring thereof Thus it appeareth howe shamefully you haue beelied S. Hierom how lewdely you haue abused his wordes to suche a foolishe sense as no learned or wise eares can abide Nowe to youre thinking that if a prieste by S. Hieromes minde may doe as much as a bishop that then one bisshop maie doe as muche by Goddes lawe as an other Isaye S. Hierom beelyed againe 30. that I thinke not but I knowe and beleue that you lye vpon S. Hierome who saieth not nor is of that minde that a prieste maye doe asmuche as a bishop For in this epistle to Euagrius he excepteth the power of making priestes in the dialogue against the Luciferians the auctoritie of ordinary confirming and in bothe the places he graunteth to one which must nedes be the bishop a peerelesse power aboue all the rest for the auoiding of schismes So that this being true you shoulde rather haue thought that one bisshop might doe as muche as an other certeine thinges excepted or elles you shoulde haue bene better ocupied to haue thought vpon some other matter I maruell M. Nowell that you harpe so muche vpon this string of making bisshoppes and priestes equall whereunto if youre Archebishoppes and bishoppes loke not in time I thinke those goodfelowe ministres shoemakers weuers tinkers broomemen coweherdes fidlers etc whome youre bishoppes haue made equall to you that be â–ª inferiour ministers yow of youre goodnes will shortly make equall to youre bishoppes and archebishoppes You procede and saye Further seing this one afterwarde chosen to rule the rest was Nowell fo 43. b. â—â— chosen as well at Alexandria as at Rome orolles where c It must nedes fall out that these wordes one chosen to rule the rest either make for no supremacie of any one bishop ouer all the churche as apperteining to euery bishop in his owne diocesse or if M. Dorman will nedes inforce a supremacie by the saide wordes he shal be inforced to confesse the saide supremacie to be common to the B. of Alexandria where S. Hierome saieth this one was chosen to rule the rest with the B. of Rome as by the other place last alleaged by M. Dorman out of S. Cyprian the saide Supremacie shoulde apperteine to the B. of Carthage c. I haue shewed so often before howe I inforce vpon these Dorman wordes a supremacie ouer the whole churche to wit not directly but by an ineuitable consequent that it is needelesse to repeate my wordes againe And therefore in thus applieng this place to my purpose there is no feare of bringing the generall gouernement ouer the whole churche to Charthage or Alexandria If yow haue no other thing to trouble yow then that yow maye be quiet and take youre rest As for that that yow saye that Christe is as muche A sclaunderouse lie 31. blasphemed at Rome as he is either at Alexandria or Carthage that is one of youre sclaunderouse lyes as they can well tell who trauailing thither heretikes and finding there more feruent deuotion then elles where with all thinges contrarie to youre sclaunderouse reportes made at home in youre sermones and writinges haue returned God be praised therefore good and perfect catholikes Of the true religion vsed in the which place as if it were not impertinent here I coulde saie muche so one thing written by S. Hierome in the praise of Rome which I doubte not but yow count emongest those blasphemies that are there you saie vsed against God I caÌ„ in no wise omitte Vbi saieth he alibi tanto studio frequenâ—ia ad ecclesias ad martyrum sâ—pulcra Hieron in proaemio 2. epist. ad Galatas concurritur Where in anie other place is there suche concourse with suche affection and nombre to the churches and sepulchres of martirs Seing that this a praise and token of deuotion for so saieth S. Hierome in this place is more in the Romaines where this frequeting of churches visiting of martyrs is so muche vsed then in other places where it is lesse yea nothing at all as at Carthage and Alexandria if there were nothing elles this alone woulde proue you a lier For euen at this daie the same deuotioÌ„ is as muche vsed at Rome as in S. Hieromes time it was and in Carthage and Alexandria where Machometans now dwel as muche frequented as it is with you and youre felowes in England S. Hierome saith expressely that all bishoppes be equall and Nowell fo 44. a. 3 none superiour and inferiour to another by goddes lawe S. Hierome saith that all bishoppes be of one priestehod Dorman and merite that is to saie no one more a bishop then an other That no one is in iurisdiction aboue or beneathe the other that he hathe in no place And yeat is this the thing that yow shoulde proue It hurteth not oure cause in case that we graunte that this place Nowell do the apperteine to the Apostles and that one was chosen emongest the Apostles them selues to haue the chiefe place that is to speake first to moderate other to staye contention and to remedie schismes Naie it maketh with vs directly who doe graunte that as emongest those 12. one was so chosen to be ruler so it is good that in euery competent nombre of priestes and cleargie 〈◊〉 be chosen likewise to be ruler If yow will be liberall M. Nowell be liberall as yow Dorman shoulde be and marre not all with a little pelting If yow will at the length yealde to the truthe that Petre was heade Lib. 1. contra IouiniaÌ„ of the other apostles confesse also with S. Hierome that it was not the Apostles doing to choose him emongest them â–ª selues Note but that it was magister bonus their good maister who chose Peter to be the heade for the auoiding of schismes Confesse that this maketh not with yow but directly against yow who mainteine that all bishoppes be equall in iurisdiction and no one aboue the other For yow deceiue youre selfe and other toe when you saie that as emongest the 12. apostles there was one aboue the rest so in euerie competent