gather together in paper what hee had scattered in the ayre his distinctions would appeare to bee more prestigious in the one than they seeme to bee specious in the other and that it would bee as harde a thing for him to vnwrappe himselfe from selfe-contradictions by the pen as it is easie for him to dazell and entangle the ignorant by his tongue Hee made account also perhaps that his cause being grounded on the Word vnwritten it could not well be defended by the word written Notwithstanding hauing intelligence since that hee had compiled a little writing on this subiect in fauour of some whom hee was desirous to subuert I haue taken paynes to get a Copie of it to which I haue made this aunswere which may serue in stâ—ade of a Resultate or repetition of our Verball Conference at vvhich vvere present fevve others than his greatest friendes vvho then made such acclamations and since haue sovved such reportes thereof as pleased them But heere not beeing required the applause of men nor any tickeling conceipt of vanitie I entreate the Readeer to ayme vvith mee in this vvriting at the glorie of God onely and the manifestation of his truth for the teaching vvhereof Saint Athanasius vvitnesseth that the Scripture is sufficient Let vs acknovvledge it then for Iudge Athanas 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 vs reuerence it as Mistres vvhilest our aduersaries take it for partie and pursue it as an enemie The answer of D. Daniell Tillenus to the Bishop of Eureux his treatice wherby he endeauoreth to proue the insufficiency and imperfection of the holy Scripture and the necessity authority of vnwritten traditions The bishop of Eureux THE vnwritten word of God The B. â— on which we call Apostolicke tradition is of the same force and authority as the written word is and without it the Scripture alone is not suffieient to confute all heresies The Iewes did beleeue when the body of the law of Moyses was giuen vnto them many things which either were not conteyned in the fiue bookes of Moyses or did not appeare vnto them to be therein conteined As the immortality of the soule the resurrection of the body the last iudgement Paradise Hell the Creation and distinction of the orders of Angells the being and creation of deuills and many other points which they could not know by humane science but it must needs be that they receiued them by reuelation from God and therefore that they had another way for to deriue and conserue the word of god besides that of the Scripture D. Tillenus his answer To him that would heare none but Fathers speake it may be answered in a word as one of the number saith Hillar iâ— Psalm 1â— Whatsoeuer is not conteined in the booke of the Law we ought not to know it He that speaketh so would not haue vs seeke that elsewhere which is not found in the Scripture We say that all that is necessary to saluation touching those and all other points is conteyned in the scripture either in expresse tearmes or in necessary consequence and true analogue Gen. 17â— Exod 6. â— Exod. 20â— In the writings of Moyses we find that God maketh a couenant with the Hebrews that he promiseth to be their God and the God of their seed to exercise mercy vpon them vnto thousand generations that is to say for euer to dwell in the middest of them 〈◊〉 10. 〈◊〉 29. to keepe them as the apple of his eie In them is Israell called happie for that it was saâ—ed by the lord God 7.9 Iacob being ready to depart out of this life comforted himselfe in the expectation of the saluation of the lorde to shew that he went to take possession of a bâ—tter countrey He and his Father called themselues straungers in the land of Canaan which notwithstanding was promised them for inheritance Therefore they beleeued the true country that is to say Paradise This consequent is not onely necessary but also manifest by the testimony of the Apostle who draweth it from this place of Scripture not from any vnwritten Tradition 〈◊〉 1.9.13 when he saith that they which so speake shew playnly that they seek a Country which is the thing that Du Perron can not find in the bookes of Moyses although we find in them that the wicked and vnfaithfull that defended lyes against the trueth 〈◊〉 â— 11 did wish it For what else meaneth that false prophet Balaam when he sayth O that my soule might dye the death of the righteous or that my end might bee like theirs This wish expresseth clearly enough the appreheÌ„sioÌ„ he had of the last iudgment 〈◊〉 â— 1 When Moyses calleth the Israelites the children of the Lord their God forbidding them to sorrow for the dead as infidells he speaketh no lesse manifestly of the resurrection 〈◊〉 4.13 than S. Paul when he exhorteth the Thessalonians not to lament for the dead as they do that haue no hope 〈◊〉 3.2 VVhen Moyses saith that God holdeth all his saints in his hands he saith the same thing that is sayd by other that haue written after him That the soules of the righteous are in the hands of the Lord and that they commit their soules vnto him 〈◊〉 â— 1 19. 2.32 24. â— Iud. â— 29 â—0 19 as vnto a faithfull creator So when he speaketh of the book of life of the taking vp of Henoch which Tertullian calleth Candidatum aeternitatis when he saith that those that feare God and keepe his commaundements shall be happy for euer when he setteth before the Iewes life and death blessing and cursing when he threatneth them with the fire of the Lords wrath Deut. â— which shall burne euen to the bottome of hell shall consume the earth with her encrease and set on fire the foundations of the mountaines VVhen I say he writeth all these things he sheweth clearly enough the immortality of the soule the resurrection of the body the last iudgement Paradise and Heâ—l which points are vnseparably linked together Jf these testimonies seeme not cleare enough to the Bishop of Eureux who confesseth neuerthelesse that in Daniell and the other Prophets that haue written since Moyses there is some found Let him consider that they which among the Corinthians denied the resurrection 1. Corâ—â— shifted off the one as well as the other VVhich sheweth that if those that doo erre in some point will not suffer themselues to be vanquished by the scripture that commeth not through any obscurity and imperfection of which they falsely accuse it but from their owne malice and blindnes Moreouer it is to be noted that it hath pleased God orderly to distribute the reuelation of his will of his promises and of his couenant by certayne degrees increasing alwaies the measure of this reuelation as the age of the world increased This oeconomy is clearely obserued in the Scripture if we mark therein the degrees from Adam to Abraham from Abraham to
the scripture Acts â—7 2 1. Cor. 15 Titus 1 12 â—oâ—o 10 which verses got no authority amongst vs til since the time as they were sanctified by the Apostle as Tertullian speaketh though before they conteyned truth The Bishop of Eureux verie vnfitly confoundeth these two tearmes Truth and Authoritie as if euerie sentence and historie conteyning Truth had as much authoritie as a place of holy scripture And if the Apostles alleadge somtimes things not written it must be noted that hauing receiued the spirit in such abundance they discerned better the true traditions from the false than their pretended successours could any waies doe Also ordinarily it is but vpon some circumstance of historie and not for the substance as the names of the Magitians of Pharaoh Iacobs worshipping of God 2 Tim 3 8 Hebr. 11.2 Hebr. 12.2 as he leaned on his staffe certaine words of Moses propounded at the publishing of the Law The fastening of Iosephes feete in the stocks in prison The prophesie of Henoch alledged by S. Iude though it be taken from Tradition as touching the words 〈◊〉 105 18 yet the ground of it appeareth in Scripture which teacheth vs that the Patriarches were ordained for to teach those of their ages and to declare vnto them the iudgements of God And since we finde in Scripture that Henoch continually walked wirh God we gather from thence that he spared not to exhort the men of his time 〈◊〉 5 22.24 to repentance and to threaten them with the wrath of God Considering that the same Scripture teacheth vs that God doth nothing afore he hath reuealed his secrets to his seruants the Prophets â—â—us 2. It is also to be noted that this prophecie of Henoch may be more fitly vnderstood of the vniuersall Iudgement that God executed vpon the world by the flood than of the last Iudgement of the world And forasmuch as they of whom S. Iude speaketh were contemners of God It is to be beleeued that they made as little reckoning of the Scripture as of the authoritie of Iesus Christ â—â—se 4. whom they denyed And therfore the Apostle chooseth rather to alledge vnto them a historie witnessed not only by the Scripture but also by profane Authors who make mention of the Deluge as we learne by Iosephus Eusebius and S. Cyrill But this instance shall be examined more particularly in his place The second fraud whereof he accuseth me is That in stead of shewing the points in question by expresse Texts of Moses or by necessarie consequences and true analogie I shew them by some probable and coniecturall apparances or shewes The Reader which hath eyes to see shall iudge whether there be apparance or substance whether probability or necessity mean while I wil aduertise him of the methode that Du Perron keepeth in answering it 1. He opposeth some maimed exposition of one of our Doctours as if wee did attribute like authoritie to them as the Church of Rome doth to their popes or the like as to the ancieÌ„t fathers of whome the Glosse of the ciuill Canon saith Glos in dist Can Nolim that all their writings are to be held for authenticall euen to the least Iota or title Although sometimes he produce some out of the Rabbines yea euen from some Doctours of the Romish Church 2 He inuenteth one of his owne braine if he finde none in some Interpreter that repugneth mine 3 He reduceth the places of Moses in forme of a cornuted syllogisme in fashion of his miter to make himselfe be laughed at 4 He wresteth my conclusions for what pointe he listeth though I alleadge the places for proofe of another and this he doth that he might make my arguments be found the more absurd and giue himselfe subiect of exclayming that I speake not of all the pointes proposed 5 He saith in the end that the places are not so cleare but a conteÌ„tious spirite may finde some defect And if I confirme my exposition by the testimonie of the Fathers for to shew that others haue vnderstood as I doe the place in question and that I wrest it not to serue myne owne turne His ordinary answere is That the question is not whether some Father hath vnderstood it so or no but whether that can be verified by the onely text of Moses which is the heape of all peruersnes and Impudencie for if I bring but the bare text he saith I am alone of my opinion and that it may be taken otherwise at least by a contentious spirit In a word not onely the places of Moses but also those of Iob Daniel and Dauid most expresse for the Immortality of the soule the resurrection of the body the last iudgment and life Eternall are so feeble vnto him that he sheweth well that he beleeueth those pointes no better than the Saduces for whome he pleadeth And whereas Cicero said to a certaine Aduocate pleading faintly if thou didst not couÌ„terfeit thou wouldest not plead so coldly So contrariwise one may say vnto him that if he feyned he would not plead so eagerly for to imagine that he beleeueth these points by benefite of the inuentarie of Tradition is absurd sith that throughout his whole booke he coÌ„tinually demauÌ„deth insoluble ineuitable demonstrations which none in the world no not the most contentious spirit that is can be able to gainesay protesting that he will not admitt any proofe of Scripture vnlesse it be such Can he finde of this stampe in the treasorie of Tradition Is not his speach the speach of a heathen Atheist â—â—len de â—ll differ l c 4 most execrable which saith That in the Schoole of Moses and of Christ there be harde lawes which are not grounded on any demonstration Felix Gouernour of Iudea a heathen and a wicked maÌ„ when he heard S. Paul speake of the last Iudgment â—â—t 24.25 he trembled for feare and yet the Apostles discourse was onely taken from Moses â—â—t 26.22 and the Prophets if we beleeue him in that which he saith afterwards before Festus and King Agrippa But our Pyrrhonian Bishop findeth â—â—l 11. 22 25 that all that can be alleadged is but matter of mockery and that by Moses saying beasts and fishes are altogither as immortall in their soules as wel coÌ„prised in Gods couenaÌ„te capable of euerlasting life as the creatures which beare the Image of God The Saduces for whome he pleadeth found not the Resurrection of the bodie clearely enough expressed in the writings of Moses for to beleeue them but after that our Sauiour Christ had prooued it by the miraculous raysing vp of Lazarus did they beleeue it for that The Pharises which made profession to beleeue it beleeued they for that that Iesus Christ was the ResurrectioÌ„ the life No more truly theÌ„ an Epicure would haue beleeued the Imortality of the soule seeing Calanus ioccuÌ„dly cast himselfe into the fire although this act seemed to othersome a more pertinent proof for
POSITIONS LATELY HELD BY the L. DV PERRON Bishop of Eureux against the sufficiency and perfection of the Scriptures maintaining the necessitie and authoritie of vnwritten Traditions Verie learnedly answered and confuted by D. Daniell Tillenus Professor of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Sedan VVith a defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy Scriptures by the same Author Faithfully translated PROV 30.5.6 Euerie word of God is pure he is a shield to those that trust in him put nothing to his word least be reproue thee and thou be found a lyer Aust de vnit Eccles cap. 3 sIn the Scriptures we are to seeke the Church by them to discusse our controuersies Chrysost in 2. Thes 2. Hom. 3. All is cleare and plaine in holy Scripture whatsoeuer is necessarie for vs is manifest Printed at London by L. S. for Nathaniell Butter 1606. TO THE READER WHen our aduersaries perceiue them selues conuinced by the Scripture they doe as they of whom Irenaeus and Tertullian speake they set vpon the Scripture it selfe accusing it of obscuritie ambiguitie and imperfection maintaining that the truth cannot therein be found by such as bee ignorant of Tradition and that the great mysteries of Faith were not by the Apostles committed to his disciples but by word of mouth and not by writing In a word all that the ancient Fathers recite of their gainsayers we see now a daies practised by ours who not content with those olde reproaches doe defame the scripture with many contumelies calling it the booke of heretikes the blacke Gospell Incke-Diuinitie leaden ruler nose of waxe Theramenes his buskin the apple of discord Sphynxes riddle a sword in a mad-mans hand and other like tearmes full of iniuries and blaspemies wherewith they defame the booke of the couenant and testament of the Sonne of God which the auncients called the mirrour of diuine grace and mans miserie the touchstone of truth the displayer of vanitie the Squire Rule and most exact ballance of all things the treasure of all vertue a Shop of remedies for all euils the sacred Anker in time of tempest a strong Armie against heretickes a safe retrait against all dangers a happie rest after all trauailes the sure and only stay in time of tryall the Pillar and foundation of our faith the most parte of which titles and the efficacie of them all is attributed by our aduersaries to their Traditions vvhich some of them dare euen preferre and oppose vnto the scripture Lind. lib. 2 panopl. c. 5 Witnesse he vvho calleth it the true Moly conseruing the Christian faith against the Enchauntments of Heretickes because Catholikes saith he vvould be soone poysoned vvith these Enchauntments he meaneth the Scriptures if they did not vse the Moly or antidote of Traditions Pigh de Eccl. Hic lib. 1. c. 4 Another hauing affirmed that the authoritie of Ecclesiasticall tradition hath more force and efficacie to assure our faith in euerie controuersie than the Scripture addeth further that if those of his side would remember that Heretickes ought not to be conuinced by the Scripture their matters vvould goe a great deale better vvith them but hauing endeuored to ouercome Luther by the Scripture for to make ostentation of their good vvitt and great knovvledge all is come to naught c. Truly it is an horrible combustion in Christendome to see the Scriptures vvhich make vs knovv Christ and become christians vsed so vnvvorthily No nation euer tooke this liberty vnto themselues to defame the bookes containing the lawes either of their beliefe or policie The bookes of the Sybills the lawes of the tvvelue Tables and other like vvritings vvere held sacred among the Romanes The Greeks and Pagans did beare all honour to the lawes of their Legislators and to their Rituall bookes as to this day the Ievves doe to their Thalmud and the Turkes to their Alcoran But among those that would be called Christians he that can cast most reproaches against the holy Scripture he that can obserue or imagine therin most imperfections vvill be esteemed more fine witted and more zealous in the faith then others yea there hath beene found one vvho of late hath dared by vvriting to maintaine publish that inuocation or calling on the name of Christ Iesus is no more commaunded in the Scripture then the calling on the Saints departed that thereby he might make the Innoâ—â—â—tion on the Author of life to depend as vvell on the Romish tradition as on the authority of the booke of life It being my chance of late to meet with the L. of Perroâ— Bishop of Eureux and to fall into some dispute vvith him concerning this matter he confesseth vnto me that the most parte of the articles in controuersie betvveene the Romish Church and ours haue no demonstratiue proofe in the Scripture As the Sacrifice of the Masse Inuocation on Saintes Prayer for the dead vvorshipping of Images Auricular confession vnction vvith the Crisme the necessitie of satisfactions the Popes Indulgences c. But he alleadged that from the time of the old Testament the Ievves did beleeue also manie things as necessarie to saluation vvhich notvvithstaÌ„ding in their times vvere not contained in the Scripture In vvhich point I found him not to agree vvith manie great Doctors of his side vvho confesse that the Scripture of the old Testament containeth all the God knevv to be expedient and sufficient for the saluation of the Israelites but that it is not so in the doctrine of the nevv testament vvhich say they should not be vvritteÌ„ on paper but preached by word of mouth engrauen in the hearts of the hearers so comitâ—â—ed vnto posteritie without writing alledging to this 〈◊〉 that which Ieremie saith cap. 31. S. Paul 2. Cor. 3. The saâ—â— L. of Perron dissenteth also from his other Doctors of vvhom some haue vvritten euen in the Councill of Trent touching some points which he maintained might be prooued by the scriâ—â—tures though they deny it namely transubstantiatioÌ„ the merâ—â—â— of workes the Popes supreamacie Purgatorie c. And being certaine that these articles haue no more ground in Scripture than the rest we may well say of them which beleeue theÌ„ that which TertulliaÌ„ said of some in his time they beleeue without the scriptures that they might beleeue against the scripture Nowe the conference hauing dured certaine daies and finding more illusion on his part than instruction I prayed him to continue it by writing that the obiections of the one and the solutions of the other appearing on paper euerie man might at leasure consider the knot of the one and the keene cutting of the other shewing him that more fruite would come forth of a permanent writing than from dazelling and vanishing words that the one remayned subiect to the touch and ballance and that in the other a subborned flatterer gaue and the ignorant hearer tooke oftentimes false Alarmes But I could neuer obtayne it at his handes who well considered that if hee should
to shew the Immortality of the soule then al the demonstratiue Syllogismes of the Philosophers Now that it may the better be seene whether it is I or Moses that Du Perron mocketh at I choose rather to produce my arguments in their forme after the maner of a simple Israelite thaÌ„ expose the simple places of Moses to the laughter of a double Sophister who though there could be found no place of Moses fit to reason from yea though Moses had not writteÌ„ at all should not for all that in any fashion whatsoeuer aduance his desperate cause as hereafter I shal make most manifest to the eye and sense of euery indiffereÌ„t reader In the mean while I wil bring forth the places according to the order of the fiue books of Moses Out of Genesis The first argument for the Immortalitie of the Soule is taken from the creation of man after the Image and similitude of God and is thus framed Gen. 1.26 That which is made after the Image of a thing resembleth it after a singular or peculiar manner But man is made after the Image similitude of God Therefore he resembleth him after a singular maner or fashion Thereupon shall bee shewed to a Saducie thoroughout all the fiue bookes of the Law but specially by the Text of Deut. 4. from the 15. verse to the 25. verse that this likenesse cannot be in man as touching his bodie sith that this God whose Image he is hath noe bodie considering also that it would follow thar euery body might bee said to be the image of god which Moses saith only of man Therfore of necessitie it must be in the reasonable and intellectuall soule otherwise beasts should be also made after the Image of God This soule if it be mortall corruptible it caÌ„not resemble after a singular fashion or maner the immortal incorruptible God The B. of Eureux replyeth that Luther Caluin say That the Image of God is defaced or put out by sin and that the interpreters themselues of both sides haue vpon this word almost as many opinions as heads I answere that neither Luther nor Caluin do at any time coÌ„found the qualitie of this Image with the substance of the same The quality which is in the right and pure vnderstanding and will of the soule is defaced or blotted out but the substaÌ„ce is no more abolished than man of whom it is the essential forme But hee defaceth and abolisheth here without thinking of it all that goodly Image of his Tradition casteth it to the ground more rudely than euer the Asse did the Image of Isis For if euen rhe Interpreters of his side cannot agree among themselues and are not able to expound the Image of God what serueth their Tradition for then which as he saith hath a double profit yea necessity the one to supply that which is not written the other to expound that which is not clearely written Anchor â—em haer 70 â—em in Epist â—â—l Io. Hieros â—â—b Hier. versa which he calleth subsidiarie or helping tradition and Epiphanius whome he so often alleadgeth as one of the principall depositaries of Apostolick Tradition freely confesseth That it cannot be knowne aâ—â— that this knowledge is reserued to God who alone knoweth in what parte of man he hath placed his Image He perceiueth theÌ„ heere a Tradition which saith not a word which furnisheth neither supply nor explication vpon this point so important much more defectuous than the Scripture which at least declareth vnto vs that man is made after the Image of God whence is drawne the argument aboue propounded And therefore the exposition of these Fathers which place this Image of God in the immortality of the soule cannot be taken from Tradition so barren in this behalfe the which also none of them alleadgeth when they treate of it Neither Tertullian coÌ„tr Mar. l 2. c. 9. Nor Athanasius de in carn Christ Nor S. Ambros. Hexa l. 6. c. 7. Nor S. Augustine de Genes coÌ„tr Manich l. 1. Nor Philastrius Bishop of Bâ—â—sse haer 49. Nor the Abbot Dorotheus Doctr. 12. Nor Albicus Flaccus quaesti in genes Interr 39. c. All which draw it out of the bare text of Moses as I doe But of what sincerity and authority is the Romish tradition in this pointe â—say 40 18 â—5 which when God demaundeth in the Scripture To whome will ye liken me or what similitude will ye set vp vnto me answereth by the subsidiarie or helping mouth of his Interpreters the Bishops We will make thee like to a piece of wood or stone painted or grauen bearing a triple Crowne like a Pope olde and decrepit and which for a neede will serue for a signe or bush at a tauerne The disciples of the Tradition learne of it that God is made after the image of a man in stead of beleeuing with the Disciples of the Scripture that man is made after the Image of God The Iewish Tradition vpon this point is not so insupportable as the Romish neither is it cleare that one may gather more properly from it the Immortality of the soule Vile Gl. Ord. than we do from the Text it selfe the Rabbins say that the Image of God is to be sought in these properties of the soule Ier 23 24 viz. as the soule filleth the whole body so God filleth heauen earth Also as the soule is one onely in her body Exod. 33. so God is onely one in the whole vniuersall world Also Psal 121 as God seeth all and can not be seene so the soule seeth the exteriour things without being seene Also as God sleepeth not so the soule euer waketh All these resemblances and conformities are found as well in a beast as in a man so that by the Iewish Tradition we should be true Saduces that is to say such as Du Perron their Aduocate would faine make vs be Gen 4 1â— From the place where the blood of Abel shed by Caine is said to cry vnto the Lord I frame this argument That which cryeth and demaundeth vengeance is not wholly extinguished and brought to nothing Abel after he was murdered cryeth to the Lord asketh vengeance therefore he was not wholly extinguished and brought to nothing The Bishop of Eureux perhaps will reply that this is a figuratiue speach to attribute a cry to blood that one cannot draw a proper conclusioÌ„ from it Let vs frame the argument therfore in this forme They of whome God hath care are not adnihilated or brought to nothing but God hath care of Abel after his death therefore he was not abolished by that death If our Carneades demand me here who hath taught me to argue thus I answere Matth 22. that it was not a Doctour of Sorbonne but the Eternal wisedome of God who concludeth that God is not the God of the dead but of the liuing And this example of Abel is no lesse euideÌ„t than that in the
Adam by whom they are sanctified and quickned If by faith imputed the B. of Eureux meaneth a quality without and foorth of children and if he say that they please God the Holy Ghost not making any reall change in them He destroyeth these principles of Scripture which say Reuel That none vncleane thing entreth into heauen Rom. 1 That the iust shall liue by his own faith That none hath accesse to the kingdom of heauen vnles he be regenerate That without faith it is vnpossible to please God Now faith and vnbeliefe are things immediatly contrary not that we would say that children do beleeue after the same manner as they that be of years with an actuall knowledge but that the Holy Ghost worketh in them an inclination and power to belieue taking away from their hart that which naturally repugneth VVhen saint Augustin saith that children are baptized in the faith of others as either of their parents or of them that present them or of the whole Church he excludeth not all operation of the Holy Ghost in the person of children which in another place he plainly confesseth to be in them As when he saith Aug. Ep ad Dar We say that the holy ghost dwelleth in litle children which are baptized though they know him not For in that they doo not know him it is no otherwise thē as they knovv not their reasonable soule yea their life Whereof notvvithstanding it doth not folow that they haue neither reasonable soule nor life This operation is as easy to god as to vs incomprehensible And the hart of an ould man before he be chaunged by regeneration is no lesse deaffe and vnable than the hart of a child the chaunge whereof is not none because it is vnknown likewise the disobedience and rebellion which is in them that be of years is a disposition contrary to faith which is not in litle ones who receiue oftentimes greater measure of grace than they that be of years vvho notwithstanding after our Aduersaries themselues are not vncapable of the externall sign though they ask it but of hypoctisy For he that administreth it vnto them can not knovv theyr fayth and capacity of grace seeing the Apostles themselues were therein deceiued Acts 8.1 as appeareth by the example of Simon Magus Seing then that the grace conferred to children by Baptism is a thing reall in their owne persons and not imputed only witnesse the examples of Ieremy and S. Iohn Baptist sanctified from their mothers womb an imputed signe is not sufficient no more than an imputatiue Paradise would suffice the possession wherof Iesus Christ promiseth vnto them so reall 8.3 as he affirmeth that none shall enter therinto vnles he receiue him as a little child Whereas he saith reason would that Baptisme should follow faith 〈◊〉 1 wherof it is a Sacrament that is altogether friuolous For Circumcision is also called the seale of the righteousnesse of faith and in another place the sign of repentance Let him therfore ask the reason of God why he did not defer Circumcision from children till such time as they were capable of such a faith and repentance as the Anabaptists require To that which he addeth that in the conuersion of Samaria men women ar only spoken of who were there baptized without any mention of litle ones though it cannot be doubted but that there wer som The answer hath bin made aboue namely that those were not born in the couenant therfore before they could be admitted thereunto by the sign of Baptism it behoued them to be instructed in the doctrine There needed not any speciall commandement touching the Baptism of little children to those that knew the foūdation of the new couenant by the correspondency of circumcision Children notwithstanding are comprehēded in the generall commandement of baptising all that shall be saued The B. of Eureux There is yet one reason that is very rife in the mouth of Catholicks being vnderpropped by the tradition of the church and by the interpretation which hath alwais run currant among catholicks namely Nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua Spiritu sancto non potest introire in regnum Dei But this in the mouth of Caluin those of this sect is of no force For hee interpreteth there Aqua not for the elementary water but for the holy ghost And when it is replyed that that were a repetition of the same thing vnder two diuerse words he opposeth Baptisabit vos Spiritusancto igne wher he will haue Ignis Spiritus sanctus to be one and the same thing which he doth for to exclude the necessity of Baptism But in a word to all that will haue this place serue their turn the Anabaptists who reiect the tradition interpretation of the church do answer that this propositiō is to be vnderstood of them that are capable of Baptism As when it is said in the same chapter He that beleueth not is already iudged It is vnderstood say they of them which are of years to beleeue D. Tillenus his answer He would bereaue vs of the argument taken out of Saint Iohn Except a man be borne againe of water c. Ioh. 3.5 because we take this word Water for the spirit as in another place the word Fire and spirit signifie one and the same thing Math. 3 But although from this place canot bee concluded the absolute necessity of Baptism yet neuertheles we ought to conclude frō thence the absolute necessity of regeneration The Anabaptists vnderstāding this word water of outward Baptism as the Church of Rome doth do reasō thus seing Baptism is expresly called regeneration seing that children are not capable of regeneration which is doon by faith Baptisme is not to be communicated vnto them To which we answer For as much as regeneration is absolutely necessary to saluation children vnles they will damn them all are partakers therof therfore the seale of this grace of regeneration is rightly applyed vnto them The reply that du Perron maketh for them that this sentence of S. Iohn is to be vnderstood only of them that are capable of baptisme through yeares of knowledge is nothing currāt against vs but against the church of Rome which interpreteth this place of the absolute necessity of externall baptism of which it cannot otherwise choose but that many children are depriued and therefore excluded from saluation after their doctrine The B. of Eureux Now against these arguments which they so easily by their solutions vndoe when they are not constrained with the authoritie of Tradition and the interpretation of the Church they haue many other for it in apparance stronger as that Baptism is a dependaunce and a seale of faith and therefore that those that are not capable of faith are not capable of Baptisme That baptisme is called the washing of Regeneration That Regeneration is made by the worde of God you are all the children of
Baptisme do sinne against the same article Whence I thus conclude The doctrine of the Donatists which was hereticall could not be confuted by the scripture alone and without the helpe of the Apostolicke tradition for to confute all heresies And by consequent it conteyneth not alone sufficiently all the principles of doctrine necessarye to diuinity and Christian Religion D Tillenus his answere Let vs see if Sainte Augustine in those tenne yeares that he handled his question against the Donatists could not finde any actuall proof in the scripture vpon this poynte as Du Perron saith lib. 1. â— coÌ„t 7. I thinke he promiseth very certayn proofes when he saith Ne videar humanis argumentis agere ex Euangelio profero certa documenta c Least I should seem to discourse with humaine reasons Lib. 2. de bap cont Don. c. 1 J will alleadge sure proofes out of the Gospell c. And in an other place Quid sit perniciosius vtrum non Baptizari an rebaptizari iudicare difficile est verumtamen recurrens ad illam stateram Dominicam vbi non ex humano sensu sed ex authoritate diuina rerum momenta pensantur inveniode vtraque re Domini sententiam Qui lotus est non habet necessitatem iterum lauandi c Jt is an hard thing to iudge whether is more dangerous not to be Baptised or to be baptized againe yet hauing recourse vnto that ballance of the Lord where not of humain sence but of diuine authority the vallews of things are weighed I finde of both matters the lords sentence He that is washed hath no neede to bee washed agayne c. And in another place hauing said that this custome came of the Tradition of the Apostles not meaning that it wanteth his proofes in Scripture he addeth Lic 5 de cont Don c. 2 Contra mandatum dei esse quod venientes ab hereticis si iam illi Baptismum christi acceperunt baptizantur quia scripturarum sanctarum testimoniis non solum ostenditur sed PLANE ostenditur That it is against the coÌ„mandement of God that such as come froÌ„ hereticks shold be baptised if they haue already receued ther the Baptism of Christ becaus by the testimonies of holy Scriptures it is not only shewed but plainly shewed These places others of this father do shew the audaciousnes of du Perron in his affirmations and his sincerity in his allegations As for the places he bringeth out of the same father to proue that he acknowledged the imperfectioÌ„ of the scriptu e coÌ„cerning this poynt he confouÌ„deth the question of act exaÌ„ple or practise with the questioÌ„ of law or ordinaÌ„ce S Augustine saith in this matter there caÌ„ be none exaÌ„ples of scripture alledged that is it caÌ„not be fouÌ„d there that it was so practised therfore he referrd the custoÌ„ or practis hereof to apostolike traditioÌ„ but that it ought so to be practised he affirmeth that not only the scripture sheweth it but that it sheweth it manyfestly Whence I conclude against the Bishops conclusioÌ„ on this second poynt The doctrine that euidently sheweth what is to be done in all matters coÌ„cerning fayth which confuteth the heresies that repugne the same is perfect but the scripture conteyneth this doctrine Therfore it is perfect The assumption is proued not only by the scripture but also by the testimonies of the fathers by whome he pretendeth to proue the doctrine of the church of Rome I wold earnestly desire of him cleare direct answere to that place of Augustine aboue alleadged out of his secoÌ„d book 9 chapter de doctrina Christiana for in the verball conference he woulde giue no answer theruÌ„to but on condition that I would protest to forsake the scripture and not to reason any more but by the authority of the fathers The bishop of Eureux The third heresy which we haue propounded among those that cannot by the scripture alone bee confuted is that of the Greekes touching the proceeding of the holy ghost which our aduersaries hold as well as we to proceed from the father and from the sonne a thing notwithstanding which the scripture doth no where expresse On the contrary it seemeth to restrayne the originall of the same proceeding from the father alone saying â—5 26 16. The spirit of truth which proceedeth from the father For when this sentence of Christ is obiected to the Greekes He shall take of mine They answerr that this worde of mine hath relation not to the Essence nor to the person but to the doctrine so that the intention of Christ in saying he shall take of mine that is of the same treasure of doctrine and wisdome of which the sonne hath taken And they alleadg for proofe of their exposition that which followeth in the Text which sayth And he shal declare it vnto you replying that the word declare hath relation not to the essence nor to the person but to the doctrine In like sort when these places are alleadged vnto them if any one haue not haue not the spirit of Christ 8.15 â— 5.6 he is none of his And agayne the spirit of Christ crying Abba Father they answer that concludeth not that the spirit proceedeth from Christ and that he is called the spirit of Christ not by proceeding but by possessioÌ„ for asmuch as Christ according to his humanity hath receiued the guift the ful whol possession of the same spirit according to the words of Esay The Spirit of the Lord is vpoÌ„ me becaus the Lord hath anoynted me And S. Peeter saith The lord hath anoynted him with the holy ghost and with power And that in this maner it is said that Elizeus receiued the spirit of Elias Not that the holy Ghost did proceed from Helias but because in a certayne measure he was possessed of Heliah When that is obiected vnto them which Christ saith vnto his Father That which is thine is myne They answer that may be expounded of the possession and outward domination ouer the creatures ouer whom the Father hath giuen all power to the sonne in heaven and in earth neither can the seÌ„ce of the words in that place be restrayned to the Essence no more then when the father of the prodigall Childe saitb to his eldest sonne the same words Omnia mea tua sunt But besides this though it should be vnderstood of the essence yet the argument concludeth nothing For if becaus the essence of the father is one the same it shoold therfore follow that the holy ghost proceedeth as well from the one as froÌ„ the other you must in like sorte conclude The essence of the father and the holy ghost is one and the same the sonn is therfore begotten of the holy ghost as well as of the Father And when it is added to those other arguments He will send the comforter They answer that he expoundeth himselfe shewing his meaning by this word Send namely that he will pray his
Inuocation on saintes departed By the Cherubins of the mercie feate worshipping of Images By the commandent made to the Leuites that they should be holy the single life of Priesstes c. These are doctrines of the father of lyes to perswade the world that no truth at lest wise no light euidence of truth touching the fundamentall point of our saluation can be found in the scripture And that all the errors all the horrors that Diuert vs from saluation may be very well proued by the scripture Let vs see our Bishoppes reasons why the points necessarie to saluation are not found so openly set downe in the scrpture that manifest and necessarie consequences may bee drawne from it without the helpe of Tradition They are two the first is For to conteine our mindes within the bounds of humilitie the second to bind the sheepe to the pastours with a straiter bond of Charitie by the necessitie of instruction The booke of the holy Ghost attributed to saint Basile yet falsely at least wise that part of it whence our aduersaries take their most fauourable testimonies conteyneth another reason which our Bishoppe whether for shame or because he will haue his Tradition by himselfe found not fit to adde It hath thus That the Apostles and fathers would by these secrets of silence preserue in mysteries their authoritie For what is diuulged to the eares of the people is not mysterie for this cause certaine thinges were deliuered by Tradition without writing least the knowledge of the Doctrines or opinions should come in cotenmpt among the people by reason of custome So that the doctrines of the Trinitie the incarnation of Iesus Christ of our Election Vocation Iustification Sanctification Glorification and many other Articles shall be no more mysteries because they are conteyned in the scripture preached to the people and committed to the eares of euerie one but by this reckoning must be no more preached to the people praying to saints departed worshipping of images the Popes supremacie the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatorie Indulgences or Pardons many other things not conteined in the scripture and yet notwithstanding almost nothing else preached yea more recoÌ„mended beaten into the eares of the people than the things that are written Would to God this reason were perswasiue inough for to make to be hid and buried in the depth of an euerlasting silence or to set ouer and confine to the eares onely of the Popes clergy all these goodly mysteries true markes of the Louers of the woman in whose forehead is written Mysteries â—eue 17.5 that they spoyle not the true clergie that is the inheritance of Iesus Christ The Bishop of Eureux his reasons seem better in shew but the sustaÌ„ce of them is much worse For our part wee beleeue that the reading of the Scripture maketh euery true Christian humble as wel by the things cleerly set down as by theÌ„ he cannot so wel vnderstand that hee might bee stirred vp to begge vnderstanding and light of the Father of lights as Dauid did though hee were a great Prophet â—â—al 119 o◠〈◊〉 vvhere Now if God would not that all that is necessarie for vs should be written or that it should not bee clearely written for to conteine as saith Du Perron Mens mindes within the bounds of humilitie what followeth els but that they that content not themselues with this measure of reuelation cannot also conteine themselues within the bounds of humilitie and therfore become proud invent whatsoeuer they list for to establish their Lordshippe and rule ouer the Lords flock employing their ordinances and Traditions for to binde and torture the consciences as Tyrants vse prisons gybets to torment the bodies of men And if any Chistian thinke to imitate that praise-worthy example of the men of Berea who durst euen examine the preachings of S. Paule by the Scripture Act. 17.11 they cry out straight both against him and the Scripture the one is called a giddie headed foole and a heretick the other vnsufficient and imperfect and that for no other reason but because it is most sufficient and perfect to conuince and rebuke their imperfections 2. Tim. 3 16 17. and to make vs perfectly instructed vnto euery good worke I said in my former answer that though the aboue-saide points should not be found so cleare in the writings of Moses yet that would conclude nothing against the sufficiency of the Scripture which we haue in the Christian Church for that God speaking familiarly to Moses instructed him alwaies on euery occurrence without euer giuing him libertie or authoritie to ordaine of matters of Religion Fol. 57. Our Bishop mocketh at it adding that Iesus Christ spake as familiarly to God And the Apostles in like sort of whome Christ saith I call you no more seruants I call you from hence forth my friends c. Let vs see what reason he hath to mock at mine which is this When the Church hath teachers and guiders that cannot erre in their doctrine immediately receiued from God and that can familiarly inquire of him on euery occurrence and occasion for to instruct themselues and their flockes then it may more easily bee without Doctrine written But in the times of the Patriarches of Moses and the Prophets immediately sent of GOD the condition of the Church was such Therefore it might the more easily be without Doctrine written c. What hurt doth his Instance taken from the Apostles to this argument what good doth it doe him vnlesse it be for to shew either his fondnesse in as much as it confirmeth my argument for there is the same reason of the Apostles as of the Prophets Or his impudencie if he meane that the Christian Church after the death of the Apostles is euer furnished with as excellent men as they were speaking as familiarly vnto God as they did taking counsell immediatly from him on all occasions and occurrences as they did And without doubt thus he would haue his meaning to be taken though shame hinder him froÌ„ expressing it more openly It is also the stile of the Church or Court of Rome namely That the Pope as S. Peters successor representeth his person yea the person of Iesus Christ himself possesseth his Spirit distributeth it as it pleaseth him yea hee is called God himselfe witnesse the Canon Satis euidenter And these goodly verses set on the forefront of the portal or gate of Sixtus the forth â—ist 96. Oraculo vocis mundi moderaris habenas Et merito in terris crederis esse Deus And seeing our Bishoppe hath spoken as familiarly to this God on earth as in old time Moses did to the God of heauen and the Apostles of Iesus Christ who would not receiue the graines gold and siluer pictures which were giuen him on mount Vatican giuen with greater efficacie than the tables of the Law giuen to Moses on Mount Sina I said also Fol. 57. that Moses
particularly The sprinkling of the booke may be compreheÌ„ded vnder the sprinkling of the altar siâ—h both the one and the other represented God in this ratification of the Couenant for the booke conteined the Lawe and the conditions that God required in this Contract wherefore as S. Paule omitteth the sprinkling of the altar so Moses omitteth the expresse mention of the booke both of them vsing a Synecdoche The inconuenience that the B. of Eureux alledgeth is that if the booke had beene sprinkled with the Altar Moses had blotted out the writing of the Couenant before hee had read it to the people A great matter sure that one cannot sprinkle a thing without blotting and spoyling it as though he who in consecrating Aaron sprinkled those parts of him that God had commaunded him to sprinkle without plunging or drowning him in bloud though in other places he sprinkled a great quantitie could not as well sprinkle the booke without marring it shedding the great quantitie of bloud vpon the altar There is as much cunning in this consideration as there is reason in his reproofe of our translation of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which S. Paule vseth verse 19. to speake which Du Perron 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordaineth by the tradition of his new Lexicon that heÌ„ceforth it signifie to read He perswadeth himself that the opinion of Caluin who saith that in Saint Pauls time there was perhaps some CoÌ„mentaries of the Prophets which recounted more amply that which Moses had touched onely by forme of abridgement maketh greatly for his purpose as if it did follow that those commentaries conteined infallibly the traditions at this day in controuersie Or because they be lost that hee doth the Scripture no wrong to defame it as imperfect unsufficieÌ„t Let him learne of S. Augustine that it is no wise necessarie that all the writings of the Prophets should bee indifferently Canonicall â—â—g de Ciu. â—â—i li. 18 38 saith hee I esteeme that they to vvhom the Holy Ghost reuealed that vvhich should bee authenticall for Religion might write certaine things as men with an Historicall diligence and other things as Prophets by diuine inspiration and that these same vvere so distinguished that the one vvere attributed as to them but the others as to God speaking by them So that the former perteined to a more ample knovvledge the latter to the authoritie of Religion in vvhich authoritie the Canon is maintained and kept Besides which if there bee yet any writings bearing the name of true Prophets they serue not for to haue a more abundance of knowledge by them because it is not certaine that they be theirs to whom they be attributed and therefore wee beleeue them not especially those in which we finde things contrarie to the Canonicall faith And thus is Caluin cleered It is most certaine that the Prophets and Apostles ceased not to be men after that God had chosen them to be Prophets and Apostles and the gift of prophesying and reuealing the mysteries of God to men whether it were by word of mouth or by writing Vide Thomâ— Aqui. par 2 q. 171. ar 1. was not in them as the habitude of a science gotten by studie neither as the light is in an heauenly bodie but rather as that which is in the ayre from which it may bee easily seperated so that as they could not heale al diseases at al times and so often as they listed so could they not prophesie wheÌ„ they would 2. Kin. 4.27 neither knew they any thing but what it pleased the Lord to reueale vnto them witnes Heliseus who knew not the subiect of the sadnes and bitternes that the Sunamite had in her heart because the Lord had hid it from him And Samuel thought that Eliab had been him that the Lord had chosen to be King in Saules stead Nathan also said to Dauid when he purposed to build the Temple 1. Sam. 16 7. 2. Sam. 7. c. 1. Chro. 17 c. do all that is in thine heart for the Lord is with thee wherein both of theÌ„ were abused by the instinct of his owne minde therefore Saint Gregorie cited by Thomas Aquinas saith that it hapned sometimes that the Prophets being asked counsaile of by reason of their great vse or custome of prophesiing vttered things of their owne minde hauing opinion that they were of the holy Ghost It is not therefore sufficient that a thing be pronounced or written by a Prophet or an Apostle for to haue a Canonicall authority attributed vnto it but it behooueth also that there come betweene the motion and inspiration of god assuring those holy men not only of the truth of the matter which they treate for all that conteineth trueth hath not Canonicall authoritie but also of the end and vse thereof namely that it was for to be authenticall for to serue for an infallible rule to the faith and life of the faithfull To goe about to coÌ„clude a Canonicall authority of some book by the allâ—gation of some place that an Apostle citeth from it is a thing that deserueth rather to be laughed at than to be answered for by that meanes it would follow as hath bin abouesaid that Menander Aratus and Epimenides or Callimachus Heathen Poets should haue the like authoritie as the diuine Prophets because S. Paule alleadgeth and approueth some of their verses .. And therefore though wee shall say with Caluin that the particulars and circumstances expressed in this 9. chapter might be taken forth of the commentarie of some Prophet which we haue not Yet it would not follow either that it was part of the Canon or though it were which we say only by concession or graunt that the Canon which we haue is imperfect God of his goodnesse hauing preserued so much of it as he knew to be necessarie for his Church that is to say the parts essentiall though there wanted some of the parts called integrall And though we should not follow the opinion of Caluin yet would it not followe that the Apostles had the knowledge of these particulars by the tradition or Cabale of the Iewes seing they might haue taken them from some other bookes not written by any Prophet neuerthelesse receiued among the Iewes though not with Propheticall authority as some Historiographers are amongst vs. And therfore the cardinall Caietan who should euery way better know what is deriued from tradition than the B. of Eureux who is inferiour vnto him in dignitie in knowledge and in place of resideÌ„ce the cardinal hauing bin ordinarily neer the oracle of Rome drunk of the fouÌ„taine of tradition saith in his CoÌ„mentary vpon this chapter namely of the particular of the golden Censoure which after the opinion of many was in the most holy place from which our Bishop maketh his strongest instance It is not knovvne vvhence the Author of this Epistle hath taken this namely that the golden Censer was in the