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hear_v the_o sentence_n give_v afterward_o that_o plessis_n have_v take_v the_o objection_n for_o the_o resolution_n which_o be_v a_o great_a a_o disgrace_n 52._o if_o you_o mark_v it_o as_o can_v be_v to_o such_o a_o man_n that_o presume_v to_o understand_v what_o he_o read_v the_o second_o place_n examine_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la about_o transubstantiation_n the_o next_o place_n of_o the_o 19_o choose_v by_o monsieur_n plessis_n to_o be_v examine_v be_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la plessis_n his_o word_n as_o they_o lie_v in_o his_o book_n pag._n 870._o be_v rhese_n durandus_fw-la call_v by_o our_o sorbonist_n the_o mostre_fw-fr solute_a doctor_n 46._o have_v these_o word_n in_o his_o 4._o book_n upon_o the_o sentence_n do_v 11._o to_o the_o contrary_n say_v he_o suppose_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o the_o consecration_n do_v remain_v there_o ensucth_v thereof_o but_o one_o difficulty_n and_o this_o neither_o very_a great_a nor_o indissoluble_a to_o wit_n 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but_o the_o word_n of_o other_o that_o do_v object_v the_o same_o which_o he_o dissolve_v afterward_o when_o he_o have_v put_v down_o his_o own_o sentence_n in_o these_o word_n primum_fw-la est_fw-la dicendum_fw-la 1._o quod_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vini_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la first_o we_o must_v say_v and_o hold_v notwithstanding_o the_o former_a objection_n &_o argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n this_o be_v his_o resolution_n quite_o contrary_a to_o that_o which_o plessis_n will_v have_v he_o seem_v to_o hold_v and_o then_o have_v set_v down_o this_o resolution_n accord_v to_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o pass_v to_o answer_v the_o former_a objection_n say_v to_o the_o former_a argument_n to_o the_o contrary_n about_o difficultye_n we_o must_v answer_v that_o in_o 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plessis_n do_v before_o but_o how_o do_v he_o go_v about_o think_v you_o to_o prove_v that_o scotus_n in_o his_o resolution_n touchinge_v the_o real_a presence_n do_v hold_v the_o same_o that_o in_o his_o objection_n against_o it_o you_o shall_v hear_v his_o own_o word_n immediate_o follow_v in_o the_o same_o matter_n ibid._n nay_o say_v he_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o behold_v here_o the_o true_a dealing_v of_o m._n sutkliffe_n who_o give_v we_o quid_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la as_o apothecaryes_n be_v wont_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o scotus_n determine_v in_o his_o resolution_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o so_o as_o for_o the_o real_a presence_n quo_fw-la here_o be_v thrust_v in_o transubstantiation_n and_o for_o determination_n and_o resolution_n be_v shuffle_v in_o a_o seeminge_v to_o dislike_v rather_o than_o 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or_o ignorance_n of_o o._n e._n to_o exceed_v much_o that_o of_o master_n plessis_n his_o client_n and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o controversy_n about_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o now_o lest_o you_o may_v think_v he_o have_v somewhat_o more_o to_o say_v to_o prove_v scotus_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n then_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n how_o for_o that_o he_o so_o leap_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o argument_n though_o you_o must_v note_v by_o the_o way_n his_o nice_a assertion_n in_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o and_o his_o argument_n be_v two_o objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n as_o the_o other_o be_v before_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o first_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o himself_o be_v for_o that_o bread_n together_o with_o his_o accident_n or_o species_n do_v more_o represent_v unto_o we_o the_o nature_n of_o spiritual_a food_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o bare_a accident_n by_o and_o after_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la the_o nature_n of_o the_o encharist_n in_o this_o respect_n of_o nourishment_n may_v have_v be_v conserve_v though_o god_n have_v not_o appoint_v transubstantiation_n but_o his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n which_o argument_n you_o see_v make_v against_o the_o alleager_v o._n e._n flat_o for_o that_o it_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n to_o be_v distinct_a thing_n and_o that_o the_o one_o may_v have_v be_v without_o the_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v foolish_o bring_v by_o o._n e._n see_v it_o be_v not_o only_o a_o objection_n and_o no_o resolution_n but_o also_o a_o objection_n that_o impugn_v his_o assertion_n the_o second_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n isâ—_n that_o in_o misterye_n of_o our_o faith_n that_o interpretation_n seem_v most_o to_o be_v admit_v which_o require_v least_o miracle_n for_o maintayninge_v thereof_o but_o few_o miracle_n seem_v to_o be_v require_v without_o transubstantiation_n then_o with_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la we_o shall_v rather_o admit_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n body_n together_o with_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o same_o body_n with_o only_a accident_n of_o bread_n by_o transubstantiation_n these_o be_v two_o objection_n among_o other_o make_v by_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n above_o fifty_o leaf_n after_o his_o former_a objection_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o objection_n after_o his_o resolution_n set_v down_o for_o transubstantiation_n he_o answer_v &_o solve_v begin_v thus_o ad_fw-la argumenta_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o must_v we_o answer_v the_o argument_n make_v to_o the_o contrary_a etc._n etc._n but_o yet_o about_o the_o first_o objection_n he_o repeat_v again_o dico_fw-la quod_fw-la bené_fw-fr fuisset_fw-la deo_fw-la possibile_fw-la instituisse_fw-la 3._o quod_fw-la corpus_fw-la verè_fw-la esset_fw-la praesens_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la manente_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o say_v that_o if_o god_n will_v he_o have_v be_v well_o able_a to_o have_v appoint_v his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n but_o have_v appoint_v otherwise_o as_o appear_v by_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v not_o to_o respect_v more_o or_o few_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n and_o hence_o now_o you_o see_v that_o o._n e._n endeavoringe_v to_o deliver_v plessis_n from_o the_o shame_n of_o cytinge_n scotus_n his_o objection_n for_o his_o resolution_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n himself_o bring_v forth_o tow_v more_o objection_n for_o resolution_n without_o see_v the_o shame_n thereof_o about_o the_o article_n of_o transubstantiation_n 12._o yea_o &_o further_o blush_v not_o to_o infer_v thereupon_o this_o conclusion_n that_o scotus_n plain_o mislike_v that_o interpretation_n that_o without_o diverse_a miracle_n can_v be_v maintain_v etc._n etc._n lie_n and_o that_o albeit_o he_o be_v content_a to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o pope_n determination_n &_o dare_v not_o do_v otherwise_o yet_o that_o he_o himselse_n think_v otherwise_o etc._n etc._n o_o jesus_n what_o shall_v a_o man_n say_v of_o these_o manner_n of_o people_n let_v we_o hear_v scotus_n his_o own_o word_n in_o the_o same_o place_n where_o he_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n determination_n &_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n for_o this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n dico_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la expositae_fw-la sunt_fw-la scripturae_fw-la quo_fw-la conditae_fw-la 3._o &_o ita_fw-la supponendum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la exposuit_fw-la quo_fw-la tradita_fw-la est_fw-la nobis_fw-la fides_fw-la spiritu_fw-la scilicet_fw-la veritatis_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o do_v day_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v expound_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n by_o which_o they_o be_v write_v and_o so_o we_o must_v suppose_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v expound_v they_o unto_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o scripture_n that_o concern_v this_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n with_o that_o spirit_n wherewith_o our_o faith_n be_v deliver_v unto_o we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n etc._n etc._n lo_o here_o scotus_n found_v the_o truth_n of_o transubstantiation_n not_o upon_o the_o pope_n determination_n or_o upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n only_o as_o false_o o._n e._n charge_v he_o but_o upon_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n expound_v by_o the_o church_n with_o the_o same_o spirit_n of_o truth_n whereby_o they_o be_v write_v and_o consequent_o be_v far_o of_o from_o plain_o mislikinge_v this_o interpretation_n as_o o._n e._n affirm_v but_o for_o that_o among_o other_o argument_n scotus_n name_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n the_o calumniator_n that_o can_v not_o abide_v the_o word_n charge_v he_o present_o to_o be_v move_v only_o with_o that_o reason_n what_o will_v he_o have_v
after_o for_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v no_o more_o but_o neither_o do_v caluyn_n say_v he_o nor_o any_o of_o these_o father_n mention_n either_o the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n nor_o do_v any_o father_n speak_v of_o all_o these_o ceremony_n together_o nor_o can_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o sign_n and_o form_n of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v justify_v by_o father_n lo_o here_o 3._o or_o 4._o hole_n open_v to_o run_v out_o at_o at_o first_o that_o albeit_o caluyn_n confess_v these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v very_o ancient_a and_o that_o the_o foresay_a old_a father_n and_o doctor_n do_v mention_v they_o in_o their_o write_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o mention_v the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n before_o their_o day_n be_v not_o this_o a_o pretty_a shift_n as_o though_o themselves_o be_v not_o sufficient_a witness_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o second_o be_v that_o albeit_o the_o father_n though_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v mention_v these_o ceremony_n as_o use_v in_o the_o church_n in_o their_o day_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o set_v they_o down_o altogether_o in_o one_o place_n and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o more_o silly_a shift_n as_o though_o the_o father_n testimony_n of_o they_o in_o several_a be_v nothing_o except_o they_o do_v set_v they_o down_o altogether_o by_o which_o reason_n the_o evangelist_n themselves_o may_v be_v reject_v for_o that_o they_o put_v not_o down_o all_o thing_n together_o but_o many_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v to_o treat_v of_o they_o the_o three_o be_v that_o albeit_o these_o ceremony_n be_v in_o use_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n yet_o not_o in_o the_o same_o particular_a sign_n and_o form_n of_o word_n as_o they_o be_v use_v now_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o so_o he_o have_v a_o little_a after_o that_o if_o we_o will_v be_v obstinate_a we_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o father_n pray_v in_o consecratinge_a light_n or_o use_v the_o same_o word_n in_o hallowinge_v water_n &_o salt_n which_o be_v now_o set_v down_o in_o the_o roman_a missal_n &_o by_o these_o &_o other_o like_a shift_n which_o for_o brevitye_n sake_n i_o omit_v he_o put_v of_o all_o that_o can_v be_v lay_v against_o he_o and_o it_o be_v as_o good_a a_o manner_n of_o answer_v as_o a_o merry_a good_a fellow_n be_v say_v to_o have_v use_v at_o oxford_n oxford_n in_o a_o visitation_n to_o avoid_v the_o punishment_n for_o the_o breach_n of_o certain_a statute_n of_o his_o college_n in_o the_o begin_v of_o the_o late_a queen_n reign_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o the_o statute_n be_v urge_v against_o he_o which_o do_v forbid_v scholar_n upon_o pain_n of_o expulsion_n to_o come_v in_o or_o go_v out_o over_o the_o wall_n he_o answer_v that_o be_v true_a when_o the_o gate_n be_v open_a and_o then_o be_v urge_v by_o another_o statute_n forbiddinge_a under_o the_o same_o pain_n to_o bear_v any_o weapon_n he_o answer_v that_o bear_v be_v understand_v in_o man_n hand_n but_o not_o as_o hang_v at_o their_o girdill_n and_o by_o these_o mean_n be_v he_o able_a to_o answer_v full_o all_o objection_n make_v against_o he_o for_o breach_n of_o statute_n and_o so_o be_v sutcliffe_n for_o falsifyinge_v of_o father_n by_o the_o like_a manner_n of_o answer_v and_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o end_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o he_o return_v again_o to_o caluyn_n as_o be_v more_o trouble_v with_o his_o authority_n than_o all_o the_o other_o father_n bring_v against_o he_o master_n caluyn_n say_v he_o do_v not_o affirm_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o my_o word_n 5._o for_o albeit_o he_o say_v that_o he_o know_v how_o ancient_a some_o of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v which_o i_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n yet_o do_v he_o not_o express_v how_o ancient_a they_o be_v nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n of_o their_o several_a form_n etc._n etc._n lo_o shiftinge_n &_o shufflinge_v upon_o caluyn_n also_o he_o do_v grant_v they_o be_v ancient_a but_o do_v not_o tell_v how_o ancient_a and_o sutcliffe_n say_v before_o that_o they_o be_v not_o practise_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o he_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n and_o though_o three_o you_o shall_v prove_v that_o they_o be_v use_v as_o caluyn_n say_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n yet_o will_v he_o say_v that_o caluyn_n do_v not_o affirm_v they_o to_o have_v be_v in_o the_o first_o church_n of_o all_o nor_o do_v he_o specify_v the_o particular_a form_n of_o word_n now_o use_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o so_o will_v he_o escape_v out_o that_o way_n but_o now_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o discreett_a reader_n in_o good_a sadness_n what_o scripture_n what_o father_n what_o most_o evident_a truth_n may_v not_o be_v shift_v of_o and_o delude_v by_o these_o kind_n of_o illusion_n let_v the_o reader_n but_o look_n over_o the_o six_o chapter_n of_o ceremony_n 6._o in_o the_o 2._o 3._o 4._o and_o five_o centurye_n of_o the_o magdeburgian_o and_o he_o shall_v see_v the_o antiquity_n of_o all_o these_o point_n against_o sutcliffe_n in_o this_o place_n the_o second_o place_n object_v by_o e._n o._n to_o o._n e._n be_v in_o the_o same_o page_n where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v no_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n place_n to_o denounce_v they_o accurse_v that_o shall_v not_o hold_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v these_o in_o the_o four_o canon_n concern_v baptism_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la baptismum_fw-la liberum_fw-la esse_fw-la 5._o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la necessarium_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la anathema_n sit_v if_o any_o man_n do_v affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v free_a that_o be_v to_o say_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n let_v he_o be_v accurse_v and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v re_fw-mi well_fw-mi voto_fw-la as_o general_o all_o catholic_a divine_n do_v expound_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o man_n be_v either_o real_o or_o actual_o baptize_v or_o at_o least_o wise_a have_v a_o desire_n thereof_o which_o desire_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o they_o that_o have_v year_n of_o understand_v and_o be_v let_v otherwise_o by_o some_o extrinsical_a mean_n from_o actual_a receavinge_v the_o same_o and_o what_o christian_a man_n will_v reprehend_v this_o doctrine_n or_o call_v it_o uncatholike_a as_o sutcliffe_n do_v e._n o._n assault_v he_o with_o three_o sort_n of_o weapon_n as_o himself_o confess_v first_o the_o authority_n of_o ancient_a father_n that_o affirm_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n second_o the_o word_n of_o their_o own_o communion_n book_n where_o talk_v of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n they_o say_v that_o none_o be_v save_v that_o be_v not_o regenerate_v by_o water_n three_o out_o of_o his_o own_o word_n diverse_a time_n repeat_v in_o other_o place_n upon_o other_o occasion_n where_o he_o say_v that_o child_n by_o baptism_n be_v receive_v into_o the_o ark_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n and_o again_o that_o want_n of_o baptism_n send_v infant_n to_o hell_n fire_n whereof_o his_o adversary_n infer_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o that_o neither_o out_o of_o the_o ark_n nor_o in_o hell_n fire_n can_v they_o be_v save_v which_o be_v the_o same_o doctrine_n that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v teach_v and_o add_v a_o curse_n to_o they_o that_o deny_v it_o and_o these_o be_v the_o charge_v give_v now_o let_v we_o see_v how_o sutcliffe_n seek_v to_o run_v out_o of_o the_o list_n first_o he_o stand_v much_o upon_o the_o word_n let_v they_o be_v accurse_v and_o will_v we_o to_o show_v out_o of_o the_o father_n that_o they_o do_v use_v the_o word_n accurse_v 5._o neither_o do_v any_o father_n say_v he_o affirm_v that_o such_o be_v accurse_v that_o hold_v not_o baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a be_v not_o this_o a_o egregious_a foolery_n as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v of_o the_o word_n accurse_v &_o not_o of_o the_o doctrine_n it_o self_n see_v that_o sutcliffes_n own_o word_n in_o his_o accusation_n be_v shift_n which_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n do_v not_o say_v he_o appear_v to_o be_v catholic_a and_o yet_o now_o will_v he_o hide_v himself_o under_o the_o word_n accurse_v as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o about_o the_o doctrine_n but_o about_o the_o word_n and_o yet_o of_o we_o will_v stand_v also_o upon_o the_o curse_n sutcliffe_n can_v so_o escape_v but_o must_v undergo_v the_o say_a curse_n in_o like_a manner_n for_o he_o shall_v find_v the_o same_o both_o condemn_a and_o accurse_a express_o in_o the_o counsel_n of_o carthage_n and_o milivitanum_fw-la at_o which_o
s._n augustine_n be_v present_a and_o upon_o both_o the_o say_a counsel_n earnest_a request_n the_o same_o be_v accurse_v also_o by_o pope_n innocentius_n the_o first_o as_o testify_v s._n augustine_n epist_n 90._o 92._o &_o 93._o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o shift_n second_o of_o all_o the_o father_n that_o speak_v of_o this_o matter_n against_o he_o and_o s._n augustine_n by_o name_n in_o almost_o infinite_a place_n he_o make_v his_o adversary_n to_o allege_v only_o one_o text_n out_o of_o the_o say_a father_n and_o we_o must_v believe_v he_o for_o that_o we_o have_v not_o his_o adversaries_n treatise_n s._n augustine_n place_n be_v lib._n 3._o de_fw-la anima_fw-la cap._n 9_o 9_o but_o cite_v not_o his_o word_n yet_o answer_v they_o thus_o to_o s._n augustine_n i_o answer_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o such_o as_o die_v in_o original_a sin_n and_o seem_v to_o contemn_v baptism_n father_n this_o be_v the_o most_o blockish_a refuge_n that_o possible_o can_v be_v imagine_v for_o first_o all_o man_n before_o baptism_n die_v in_o original_a sin_n and_o second_o s._n austen_n speak_v of_o infant_n that_o have_v not_o capacity_n to_o contemn_v baptism_n his_o word_n be_v these_o noli_fw-la credere_fw-la noli_fw-la dicere_fw-la noli_fw-la docere_fw-la etc._n etc._n do_v not_o thou_o believe_v do_v thou_o not_o say_v do_v thou_o not_o teach_v if_o thou_o will_v be_v a_o catholic_a that_o infant_n prevent_v by_o death_n before_o they_o be_v baptize_v can_v come_v to_o receive_v pardon_n of_o original_a sin_n behold_v then_o the_o forehead_n of_o sutcliffe_n that_o will_v wipe_v of_o both_o this_o and_o infinite_a place_n of_o s._n augustine_n more_o express_o avouchinge_v the_o same_o doctrine_n by_o such_o a_o senseless_a sleight_n damnari_fw-la animasâ—_n say_v he_o write_v to_o s._n hierome_n â—_o hieron_n si_fw-mi sine_fw-la baptismo_fw-la de_fw-la corpore_fw-la exierint_fw-la &_o sancta_fw-la scriptura_fw-la &_o sancta_fw-la testis_fw-la est_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la that_o the_o soul_n be_v damn_v that_o pass_v out_o of_o this_o world_n without_o baptism_n both_o holy_a scripture_n and_o holy_a church_n be_v witness_v now_o will_v i_o demand_v of_o sutcliffe_n whether_o ever_o he_o read_v these_o place_n or_o not_o if_o he_o do_v not_o then_o must_v he_o confess_v himself_o to_o be_v ignorant_a or_o wilful_a in_o that_o he_o will_v answer_v s._n augustine_n without_o look_v upon_o he_o if_o he_o do_v and_o answer_v as_o he_o do_v then_o be_v he_o both_o malicious_a and_o shameless_a but_o now_o three_o to_o the_o authority_n of_o their_o communion-booke_n bring_v against_o he_o by_o e._n o._n say_v that_o none_o be_v save_v shift_n that_o be_v not_o regenerate_v by_o baptism_n he_o answer_v thus_o it_o be_v impious_a to_o tie_v god_n grace_n to_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n we_o exclude_v not_o extraordinary_a course_n wherein_o first_o as_o you_o see_v he_o reject_v plain_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o say_a communion-booke_n that_o tie_v salvation_n to_o regeneration_n by_o baptism_n &_o second_o you_o must_v remember_v that_o the_o question_n whether_o this_o doctrine_n of_o sutcliffe_n of_o extraordinary_a course_n and_o savinge_v man_n without_o baptism_n be_v catholic_a &_o conform_v to_o the_o universal_a doctrine_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o no_o whereof_o he_o speak_v not_o one_o word_n nor_o allege_v any_o one_o testimony_n to_o prove_v his_o opinion_n catholic_a that_o be_v to_o say_v general_a and_o universal_a but_o only_o say_v we_o exclude_v not_o extroordinary_a course_n and_o tell_v we_o not_o who_o these_o we_o be_v for_o that_o it_o can_v be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o set_v forth_o the_o say_a communion_n book_n and_o consequent_o have_v neither_o the_o ancient_a church_n nor_o our_o church_n at_o this_o day_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o stand_v with_o he_o i_o will_v glad_o know_v how_o he_o will_v make_v his_o opinion_n catholic_a that_o be_v universal_a and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o three_o shift_n the_o four_o be_v in_o his_o answer_n to_o his_o own_o word_n allege_v against_o he_o by_o e._n o._n whereunto_o he_o answer_v thus_o cozenage_n i_o do_v confess_v that_o infant_n die_v in_o original_a sin_n be_v damn_v to_o hell_n fire_n but_o i_o hope_v no_o man_n will_v say_v that_o all_o that_o die_v before_o baptism_n albeit_o they_o much_o desire_v it_o and_o believe_v in_o christ_n jesus_n die_v in_o original_a sin_n o_o slippery_a evasion_n our_o question_n here_o be_v sir_n matthew_n of_o infant_n that_o can_v desire_v baptism_n for_o as_o for_o other_o that_o be_v of_o age_n and_o do_v desire_v it_o they_o may_v be_v save_v by_o baptism_n in_o desire_n as_o before_o be_v grant_v again_o your_o immediate_a word_n before_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n do_v speak_v of_o infant_n for_o you_o say_v i_o do_v confess_v that_o infant_n be_v damn_v to_o hell_n fire_n and_o what_o a_o fellow_n be_v you_o then_o which_o say_v in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o same_o sentence_n albeit_o they_o much_o desire_v it_o and_o believe_v in_o christ_n jesus_n three_o you_o say_v a_o little_a before_o that_o want_n of_o baptism_n do_v soud_v infant_n to_o hell_n and_o now_o you_o say_v that_o infant_n die_v in_o original_a sin_n be_v damn_v to_o hell_n fire_n which_o though_o in_o our_o sense_n be_v all_o one_o that_o hold_v infant_n die_v without_o baptism_n do_v die_v in_o original_a sin_n yet_o in_o your_o sense_n that_o hold_v that_o infant_n may_v die_v before_o baptism_n &_o yet_o free_v from_o original_a sin_n be_v altogether_o different_a &_o consequent_o a_o mere_a consenage_n so_o to_o alter_v your_o word_n for_o deceive_a your_o reader_n but_o now_o we_o come_v to_o the_o last_o shift_a answer_n of_o all_o which_o be_v such_o and_o so_o unintelligible_a as_o no_o man_n read_v &_o consider_v the_o same_o can_v otherwise_o think_v but_o that_o the_o author_n be_v either_o distemper_v or_o bereave_v of_o his_o sense_n when_o he_o frame_v it_o i_o shall_v relate_v it_o in_o his_o own_o word_n &_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_v of_o it_o place_n he_o conclude_v final_o say_v he_o to_o wit_n e._n o._n that_o see_v the_o want_n of_o baptism_n do_v send_v infant_n to_o hell_n these_o be_v sutcliffes_n own_o word_n before_o recite_v ergo_fw-la baptism_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o his_o consequent_a be_v weak_a and_o of_o no_o value_n 13._o for_o many_o thy_fw-mi for_o want_n of_o knowledge_n and_o for_o want_v of_o small_a matter_n and_o not_o only_o of_o baptism_n and_o yet_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o save_v none_o but_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v sick_a man_n dody_a for_o want_v of_o physic_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o physic_n absolute_o necessary_a in_o this_o place_n therefore_o the_o detector_n wander_v out_o of_o his_o way_n &_o yet_o effect_v nothing_o thus_o he_o and_o heerwith_o end_v his_o whole_a defence_n upon_o this_o second_o charge_n give_v he_o by_o e._n o._n and_o sure_o if_o he_o write_v it_o not_o more_o than_o half_a a_o sliepe_a or_o when_o he_o be_v great_o distract_v in_o other_o matter_n i_o know_v not_o what_o to_o think_v or_o say_v of_o it_o many_o say_v he_o die_v for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n &_o for_o want_n of_o small_a matter_n &_o not_o only_o of_o baptism_n either_o he_o mean_v here_o of_o eternal_a or_o temporal_a death_n if_o of_o eternal_a how_o can_v it_o be_v cause_v by_o the_o want_n of_o small_a matter_n if_o of_o temporal_a how_o be_v it_o cause_v by_o want_n of_o knowledge_n or_o how_o agree_v it_o with_o the_o death_n cause_v by_o want_n of_o baptism_n which_o be_v eternal_a how_o agree_v it_o also_o with_o sendinge_v to_o hell_n which_o be_v to_o endure_v everlasting_o again_o if_o a_o man_n die_v precise_o or_o only_o for_o want_v of_o physic_n than_o be_v physic_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o save_v that_o man_n life_n otherways_o he_o do_v not_o die_v absolute_o for_o want_n of_o physic_n &_o so_o whereas_o he_o accuse_v the_o detector_n for_o wandringe_v out_o of_o the_o way_n and_o effectinge_v nothing_o this_o man_n reel_v up_o and_o down_o in_o the_o way_n and_o effect_v his_o own_o disgrace_n and_o shame_n with_o all_o reader_n and_o looker_n on_o and_o now_o by_o the_o examination_n of_o these_o 2._o place_n you_o may_v see_v the_o fashion_n of_o this_o man_n answer_v and_o how_o easy_a a_o matter_n it_o be_v and_o may_v be_v for_o any_o man_n to_o take_v upon_o he_o the_o answer_v of_o all_o adversaries_n whatsoever_o in_o this_o manner_n and_o by_o these_o two_o example_n you_o may_v guess_v at_o all_o the_o rest_n and_o albeit_o i_o will_v glad_o end_v here_o have_v be_v long_a than_o i_o purpose_v yet_o can_v i_o not_o without_o examine_v one_o place_n more_o which_o be_v the_o four_o in_o order_n concern_v prayer_n &_o