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authority_n argument_n church_n prove_v 2,704 5 6.1319 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A77724 A publick disputation sundry dayes at Killingworth in Warwick-shire, betwixt John Bryan, doctor in divinity (minister at Coventry) and John Onley, pastor of a church at Lawford. Upon this question, whether the parishes of this nation generally be true churches. Wherin are nine arguments alleged in proof of the affirmative of the question, with the answer of I. O. thereunto, together with Doctor B. Reply. Also an addition of ten arguments more in further proof of the question, with an answer adjoyned in disproof thereof. Published by both their consents, as appears by the ensuing epistles. Bryan, John, d. 1676.; Onley, John. 1655 (1655) Wing B5245; Thomason E823_9; ESTC R207672 61,370 75

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vertur_fw-la of_o that_o call_v and_o yet_o no_o man_n can_v communicate_v that_o to_o any_o other_o that_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o and_o the_o devil_n never_o be_v authorize_v by_o christ_n to_o ordain_v minister_n and_o yet_o you_o have_v no_o other_o must_v needs_o we_o think_v be_v false_a second_o for_o manner_n of_o entrance_n that_o church_n that_o be_v in_o want_n of_o a_o minister_n be_v to_o elect_v such_o a_o man_n as_o she_o shall_v judge_v sit_v which_o man_n thus_o choose_v be_v to_o be_v solemn_o ordain_v by_o the_o approbation_n of_o the_o body_n for_o who_o he_o be_v to_o officiate_v and_o you_o be_v make_v minister_n such_o as_o you_o be_v not_o only_o by_o they_o who_o christ_n never_o authorize_v to_o ordain_v but_o also_o before_o ever_o you_o know_v what_o flock_n to_o minister_v to_o which_o be_v a_o ridiculous_a foolery_n see_v pastor_n and_o flock_n be_v relate_v the_o one_o give_v be_v and_o the_o essential_a constitute_a cause_n to_o the_o other_o and_o then_o get_v to_o the_o patron_n or_o to_o those_o in_o who_o power_n it_o be_v to_o establish_v you_o and_o make_v the_o place_n sure_a and_o then_o intrude_a yourselves_o into_o the_o service_n of_o those_o demand_v nay_o force_a wage_n from_o those_o that_o never_o set_v you_o at_o work_n whereby_o we_o judge_v you_o false_a minister_n the_o other_o be_v this_o a_o society_n of_o believer_n as_o yet_o no_o church_n in_o order_n assemble_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n to_o reassume_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n appoint_v one_o man_n for_o the_o performance_n of_o the_o work_n not_o as_o a_o pastor_n but_o as_o a_o man_n enable_v by_o god_n to_o be_v instrumental_a in_o the_o discovery_n of_o this_o truth_n now_o whether_o there_o be_v the_o like_a reason_n upon_o the_o same_o principle_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o one_o as_o the_o other_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o be_v consider_v and_o which_o of_o these_o two_o be_v the_o rightly_a authorize_v let_v all_o man_n judge_v and_o how_o the_o hold_v that_o a_o unbaptised_a person_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n one_o right_o baptise_a not_o to_o be_v find_v may_v baptise_v will_v prove_v we_o schismatic_n in_o separate_v from_o a_o true_a ministry_n be_v to_o i_o a_o riddle_n the_o unfolding_n of_o which_o belong_v to_o the_o learning_n of_o he_o that_o do_v assert_v it_o hence_o your_o first_o scruple_n may_v be_v remove_v viz._n how_o the_o first_o baptizer_n have_v his_o call_n be_v one_o who_o never_o do_v baptise_v himself_o nor_o yet_o rest_v content_v with_o his_o infant-baptism_n neither_o yet_o send_v of_o god_n to_o begin_v a_o new_a institution_n as_o john_n the_o baptist_n be_v but_o one_o enlighten_v to_o discover_v that_o old_a yet_o new_a appear_a institution_n unto_o we_o for_o if_o what_o you_o say_v be_v truth_n as_o it_o be_v not_o there_o have_v be_v some_o in_o all_o age_n bearing_z testimony_n to_o this_o truth_n viz._n that_o this_o way_n be_v not_o till_o 1500._o year_n after_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o begin_v a_o new_a institution_n for_o that_o matth._n 28._o 18_o 19_o be_v to_o last_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n whether_o man_n obey_v it_o once_o in_o a_o thousand_o year_n or_o not_o now_o whereas_o you_o demand_v by_o what_o authority_n this_o first_o man_n baptise_a see_v to_o baptise_v be_v a_o act_n of_o office_n etc._n etc._n and_o no_o man_n can_v be_v a_o lawful_a administrator_n unless_o elect_v etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v by_o what_o authority_n i_o have_v already_o show_v and_o for_o baptise_v to_o be_v a_o act_n of_o office_n and_o so_o not_o not_o to_o be_v perform_v but_o by_o officer_n i_o deny_v and_o the_o scripture_n you_o bring_v to_o prove_v it_o matth._n 28._o 18_o 19_o prove_v the_o plain_a contrary_n as_o be_v evident_a for_o such_o as_o have_v receive_v ability_n from_o christ_n whereby_o they_o be_v enable_v to_o convert_v a_o soul_n to_o christ_n may_v baptise_v such_o a_o person_n so_o convert_v the_o commission_n hold_v alike_o for_o both_o disciple_n and_o baptizer_n etc._n etc._n now_o this_o commission_n though_o it_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostle_n it_o be_v not_o give_v to_o they_o as_o apostle_n but_o as_o disciple_n and_o in_o they_o to_o all_o other_o so_o gift_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n as_o yourself_o well_o know_v and_o undeniable_a it_o be_v that_o they_o be_v to_o preach_v and_o baptise_v by_o virtue_n of_o gift_n and_o not_o by_o virtue_n of_o office_n see_v these_o man_n be_v such_o as_o be_v never_o elect_v by_o any_o church_n to_o the_o pastoral_n charge_n for_o that_o be_v not_o congruent_a to_o their_o commission_n the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n tie_v to_o the_o church_n by_o who_o they_o be_v elect_v and_o the_o commission_n send_v they_o forth_o to_o all_o the_o word_n to_o prepare_v matter_n for_o the_o church_n whence_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o such_o who_o can_v disciple_v man_n to_o christ_n may_v baptise_v such_o so_o disciple_v disciple_n and_o baptize_v etc._n etc._n but_o some_o that_o be_v not_o minister_n in_o office_n can_v do_v that_o ergo._n the_o proposition_n be_v evident_a from_o the_o word_n the_o assumption_n i_o suppose_v no_o man_n will_v deny_v except_o it_o be_v some_o who_o do_v endeavour_v to_o monopolise_v preach_v only_o to_o themselves_o and_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o all_o other_o though_o never_o so_o eminent_o gift_v except_o they_o have_v serve_v a_o prenticeship_n to_o the_o same_o trade_n that_o they_o have_v do_v or_o else_o come_v under_o their_o bishop_a by_o lay_v on_o of_o their_o hand_n that_o so_o they_o may_v tie_v they_o to_o preach_v after_o their_o fashion_n which_o opinion_n be_v so_o gross_a that_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o spend_v time_n in_o confutation_n yet_o see_v though_o you_o dare_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o all_o who_o have_v receive_v gift_n whereby_o they_o be_v enable_v to_o preach_v may_v yet_o deny_v that_o they_o may_v public_o preach_v and_o this_o preach_n matth._n 28._o be_v a_o public_a preach_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o a_o argument_n or_o two_o to_o prove_v that_o if_o there_o be_v toleration_n give_v by_o god_n to_o all_o who_o have_v receive_v the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n to_o prophesy_v in_o the_o church_n then_o there_o be_v toleration_n give_v by_o god_n to_o all_o who_o have_v receive_v the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n to_o prophesy_v public_o but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a 1_o cor._n 14_o 31._o therefore_o the_o latter_a this_o whole_a argument_n you_o have_v grant_v to_o be_v true_a only_o you_o say_v that_o prophecy_n be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o it_o be_v not_o i_o thus_o evince_n that_o prophety_n be_v there_o mean_v that_o come_v within_o trial_n and_o judgement_n but_o extraordinary_a prophecy_n do_v not_o so_o therefore_o that_o be_v not_o mean_v to_o this_o you_o reply_v that_o extraordinary_a prophet_n doctrine_n do_v act_v 17._o 11._o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o judgement_n speak_v of_o in_o the_o 14._o of_o cor._n be_v such_o a_o judgement_n as_o presuppose_v the_o prophet_n may_v err_v but_o this_o search_n of_o the_o berean_o to_o see_v if_o the_o thing_n paul_n speak_v be_v so_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n therefore_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o only_o show_v that_o paul_n preach_v and_o allege_v scripture_n as_o his_o manner_n be_v thus_o and_o thus_o it_o be_v write_v and_o yet_o cite_v neither_o chapter_n nor_o ver●e_n that_o they_o do_v seek_v to_o see_v if_o it_o be_v as_o he_o say_v and_o do_v in_o no_o way_n presuppose_v that_o paul_n be_v liable_a to_o err_v in_o what_o he_o preach_v second_o that_o prophecy_n in_o that_o place_n that_o man_n that_o be_v gift_v be_v tolerate_v that_o prophecy_n in_o that_o place_n woman_n though_o gift_v be_v forbid_v but_o extraordinary_a prophecy_n woman_n be_v not_o forbid_v ergo._n the_o minor_a viz._n that_o woman_n extraordinary_a gift_v may_v deliver_v their_o prophecy_n in_o any_o place_n i_o think_v no_o man_n will_v deny_v and_o for_o the_o major_n viz_o that_o the_o same_o manner_n of_o prophecy_n that_o the_o gift_a disciple_n be_v tolerate_v in_o verse_n 31._o be_v the_o same_o that_o woman_n be_v forbid_v verse_n 34._o be_v evident_a to_o all_o that_o will_v consult_v the_o scope_n of_o that_o place_n second_o we_o have_v a_o example_n in_o scripture_n of_o such_o man_n preach_v 25._o see_v also_o act_v 18._o 28._o if_o it_o be_v object_v apollo_n be_v a_o officer_n 1_o cor._n 1._o 12._o answer_n first_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o be_v the_o same_o man_n second_o if_o it_o be_v the_o consequence_n be_v bad_a to_o say_v apollo_n be_v a_o officer_n when_o paul_n write_v this_o epistle_n therefore_o he_o be_v one_o when_o he_o preach_v in_o the_o 18_o of_o act_n know_v