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A34675 A defence of Mr. John Cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction, charged on him by Mr. Dan. Cavvdrey written by himselfe not long before his death ; whereunto is prefixed, an answer to a late treatise of the said Mr. Cavvdrey about the nature of schisme, by John Owen ... Cotton, John, 1584-1652.; Owen, John, 1616-1683. Of schisme. 1658 (1658) Wing C6427; ESTC R2830 62,631 184

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way which I delivered more laxly I expresse more distinctly in the Treatise of the Keyes which followed after and some things more fully and clearely in the way cleared then in either of the former Answer 3. When I say No Act of the Peoples part doeth properly binde unlesse the Authority of the Elder joyne with it Keyes pag. 36. I would be understood to speak it as I meant it of the Elders walking without offence in the Right Administration of their office and Conversation of their lives Answer 4. When Mr Hooker saith Excommunication is not an Act of Office Power nor of Rule but of supreame Judgment seated in the Fraternity I easily grant that the Excommunication dispensed by the Fraternity is not an Act of Office-Power But it may Justly be Inquired whether Excommunication being Dispensed by the Elders with the consent of the Church be not an Act as of the Churches honourable Judiciall Power so of the Elders Office-Power and Rule in the Church For as the Pastorall Preaching of the Elders is Officiall and so Authoritative though the Preaching of other Brethren as of the Sonnes of the Prophets be not so so why may there not be the like Difference observed here To deliver unto Satan seemeth to be an Act of Judiciall Office-Power as when in another case it is said The Judge delivereth a man to the Officer and the officer casteth him into Prison Matth. 5. 25. He that casteth into Prison is an Inferiour officer The Judge must therefore be a Superiour officer that delivereth an offendour to the officer to be cast into Prison In the Excommunication of the Incestuous Corinthian where both the Elders and Brethren concurred the sentence might well be delivered in Termes that expresse an Act of highest Authority To deliver unto Satan But where the Church is called to Act against their Elders who corrupt them with false Doctrine there the Apostle Requireth the Church to mark them and Avoyd them Rom. 16. 17 18. which may expresse an Act of liberty and Judiciall Power but not of Authority CHAP. 4. Touching the seaventh Contradiction and eighth The seaventh Contradiction is thus gathered 7. It was a Sacrilegious Breach of Order That Commissaries and Chancellours wanting the Key of Order no Ministers have been invested with Jurisdiction Yea and more then Ministeriall Authority above those Elders who labour in word and Doctrine The Keyes pag. 16. 7. There is a Key of Power given to the Church with the Elders as to open a doore of entrance to the Ministers calling so to shut the doore of entrance against them in some cases c. The Keyes p. 9. Yea to Censure all their Elders without Elders The Way p. 45. as before Ans. The power given to the Commissaries Chancellors I justly called a Sacrlegious Breach of Order in more Respects than one 1. In that being no Ministers they exercised more than Ministeriall Authority over the Elders For Ministers doe not exercise Authority over Elders no nor over any Brother but with consent of the Church But these doe it without and against the Consent of the Church 2. In that they exercise this Authority even in Churches wherein they have not Received the key of Order and so stand not so much as in the Order of Members amngst them 3. In that they proceed against them not for crimes committed against the word of God but for Neglect of Popish-Canons or Humane Traditions But now no Authority allowed to Brethren either in the Keyes or in the Way cometh neere to this Breach of Order For 1. In Joyning with the Elders to open a doore of entrance to Minister's calling They put forth no Act of Authority properly so called at all but only exercise a liberty and Power orderly which they have Received from the Lord Jesus to elect their own officers As the Peoples election of Deacons Act. 6. 2. to 5th And their lifting up of hands in the choice of Elders Act. 14. 23. doth declare And when they doe shut them forth it is not without their Elders where their Elders are not wanting or not wanting to their Duty And even then they put forth no Act of Office Rule or Authority properly so called as the Commissaries doe but only an Act of Judiciall Power common to the whole Church 1 Cor. 5. 12. 2. The People do exercise this Power only in their own Church where themselves are members and have Received a key of Order 3. They proceed not against any much lesse against their Elders but for notorious offences committed against the word of God in Doctrine or life so that this Contradiction speaketh as little ad idem as any of the former Touching the 8th Contradiction The 8th Contradiction is represented thus 8. We are so farre from Allowing that Sacrilegious usurpation of the Ministers office That private Christians ordinarily take upon them to Preach the Gospell Publickly The Keyes pag 6. 8. This is ordinarily Practised in England and Allowed by the Independant Brethren Yea they being but in the Notion of Gifted Brethren no Ministers to other Congregations doe it ordinarily themselves Ans. 1. This Contradiction is not of me to my selfe but of some others who whether they be Independants truly so called I doe not know sure I am that Presbyterians and Independants are not membra Dividentia though I see that all that are not for Popery or Episcopacy or Presbytery doe commonly lurke under the style of Independancy I hope the Replyer would be loth to Renounce the Protestant Religion because there are found some contradictions and greater than these in one of them to another Ans. 2. When I call it a Sacrilegious usurpation for Private Christians Ordinarily to take upon them to Preach the Gospell Publickly to Administer the Sacraments yet this latter of Administring the Sacraments the Replyer leaveth out and so the Contradictiction is not ad idem which is a Common failing in this and the rest For I would not say that it is a Sacrilegious usurpation for well gifted Brethren where ordained Ministers cannot be had there to Preach ordinarily and Publickly especially if they be Approved by those that have Power and requested thereto by the People wherein I goe further in giving way to the Prophecying of Private Brethren than my Reverend Brethren the Prefacers to the Keyes doe who only Allow them to Preach occasionally and not ordinarily which I speak only to this end That the Replyer and others may know there is more consent and Agreement in our Judgments then they take notice of or sometimes our selves either But if Private Brethren doe Administer the Sacraments at all whether ordinarily or Occasionally It seemeth to me like the Fact of Uzziah in offering Incense CHAP. 5. Touching the 9th Contradiction The 9th Contradiction is layd out thus 9. A Particular Church of Saints Professing the Faith that is members without offices is the first subject of all the Church Offices with all their Spirituall Gifts