from_o hand_n to_o hand_n and_o age_n to_o age_n bring_v we_o up_o to_o the_o time_n and_o person_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o our_o saviour_n himself_o come_v to_o be_v confirm_v by_o all_o those_o miracle_n and_o other_o argument_n whereby_o they_o convince_a their_o doctrine_n to_o be_v true_a wherefore_o the_o ancient_a father_n avouch_v that_o we_o must_v receive_v the_o sacred_a canon_n upon_o the_o credit_n of_o god_n church_n s._n synopsi_fw-la s._n in_o synopsi_fw-la athanasius_n say_v that_o only_o four_o gospel_n be_v to_o be_v receive_v because_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o holy_a and_o catholic_a church_n have_v so_o determine_v the_o three_o council_n of_o 47._o of_o can._n 47._o carthage_n have_v set_v down_o the_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n give_v the_o reason_n because_o we_o have_v receive_v from_o our_o father_n that_o these_o be_v to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n s._n augustine_n 5._o augustine_n cont._n ep_v funaam_n c._n 5._o speak_v of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n say_v to_o which_o book_n i_o must_v give_v credit_n if_o i_o give_v credit_n to_o the_o gospel_n because_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v a_o like_a recommend_v to_o i_o both_o these_o book_n and_o in_o the_o same_o place_n he_o have_v also_o these_o word_n i_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v move_v i_o a_o say_v so_o plain_a that_o zuinglius_fw-la be_v force_v to_o cry_v out_o here_o i_o 135._o i_o tom._n 1._o fol._n 135._o implore_v your_o equity_n to_o speak_v free_o whether_o this_o say_n of_o augustine_n seem_v not_o overbould_a or_o else_o unaduised_o to_o have_v fall_v from_o he_o 15._o but_o suppose_v they_o be_v assure_v what_o book_n be_v canonical_a this_o will_v little_o avail_v they_o unless_o they_o be_v likewise_o certain_a in_o what_o language_n they_o remain_v uncorrupted_a or_o what_o translation_n be_v true_a caluin_n 11._o caluin_n instit_fw-la c._n 6._o §._o 11._o acknowledge_v 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omit_v say_v he_o particular_n who_o recital_n will_v be_v infinite_a &_o to_o touch_v this_o point_n but_o general_o only_a the_o translation_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n by_o luther_n be_v condemn_v by_o andreas_n osiander_n keckermannus_n and_o zuinglius_fw-la who_o say_v hereof_o to_o luther_n thou_o do_v corrupt_v the_o word_n of_o god_n thou_o be_v see_v to_o be_v a_o manifest_a and_o common_a corrupter_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n how_o much_o be_v we_o ashamed_a of_o thou_o who_o have_v hitherto_o esteem_v thou_o beyond_o all_o measure_n and_o now_o prove_v thou_o to_o be_v such_o a_o man_n and_o in_o like_a manner_n do_v luther_n reject_v the_o translation_n of_o the_o zwinglians_n term_v they_o in_o matter_n of_o divinity_n fool_n ass_n antichrist_n deceaver_n and_o of_o asslike_o understand_v in_o so_o much_o that_o when_o proscheverus_n the_o zwinglian_n printer_n of_o zurich_n send_v he_o a_o bible_n translate_v by_o the_o divine_v there_o luther_n will_v not_o receyve_v the_o same_o but_o send_v it_o back_o reject_v it_o as_o the_o protestant_a writer_n hospinian_o and_o lavatherus_n witness_n the_o translation_n set_v forth_o by_o oecolampadius_n and_o the_o divines_n of_o basil_n be_v reprove_v by_o beza_n who_o affirm_v that_o the_o basil_n translation_n be_v in_o many_o place_n wicked_a and_o altogether_o differ_v from_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o translation_n of_o castalio_n be_v condemn_v by_o beza_n as_o be_v sacrilegious_a wicked_a and_o ethnicall_a as_o concern_v caluins_n translation_n that_o learned_a protestant_a writer_n carolus_n molinaeus_n say_v thereof_o caluin_n in_o his_o harmony_n make_v the_o text_n of_o the_o gospel_n to_o leap_v up_o and_o down_o he_o use_v violence_n to_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o beside_o this_o add_v to_o the_o text._n as_o touch_v beza_n translation_n to_o omit_v the_o dislike_n have_v thereof_o by_o seluccerus_n the_o german_n protestant_n of_o the_o university_n of_o jena_n the_o foresay_a molinaeus_n say_v of_o he_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la mutat_fw-la textum_fw-la he_o actual_o change_v the_o text_n and_o give_v further_o sundry_a instance_n of_o his_o corruption_n as_o also_o castalio_n that_o learned_a caluinist_n and_o most_o learned_a in_o the_o tongue_n reprehend_v beza_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o matter_n and_o say_v that_o to_o note_v all_o his_o error_n in_o translation_n will_v require_v a_o great_a volume_n and_o m._n parkes_n say_v as_o for_o the_o geneva_n bibles_n it_o be_v to_o be_v wish_v that_o either_o they_o may_v be_v purge_v from_o those_o manifold_a error_n which_o be_v both_o in_o the_o text_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n or_o else_o utter_o prohibit_v all_o which_o confirm_v your_o majesty_n grave_n and_o learned_a censure_n in_o your_o think_v the_o geneva_n translation_n to_o be_v worst_a of_o all_o and_o that_o in_o the_o marginal_a note_n annox_v to_o the_o geneva_n translation_n some_o be_v very_o partial_a untrue_a seditious_a etc._n etc._n last_o concern_v the_o english_a translation_n the_o puritan_n say_v our_o translation_n of_o the_o psalm_n comprise_v in_o our_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n do_v in_o addition_n subtraction_n and_o alteration_n differ_v from_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o hebrew_n in_o two_o hundred_o place_n at_o the_o least_o in_o so_o much_o as_o they_o do_v therefore_o profess_v to_o rest_v doubtful_a whether_o a_o man_n with_o a_o safe_a conscience_n may_v subscribe_v thereto_o and_o m._n caerlile_n say_v of_o the_o english_a translator_n that_o they_o have_v deprave_a the_o sense_n obscure_v the_o truth_n and_o deceive_v the_o ignorant_a that_o in_o many_o place_n they_o do_v detort_v the_o scripture_n from_o the_o right_a sense_n and_o that_o they_o show_v themselves_o to_o love_v darkness_n more_o than_o light_n falsehood_n more_o than_o truth_n and_o the_o minister_n of_o lincoln_n diocese_n give_v their_o public_a testimony_n term_v the_o english_a 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place_n of_o
consequence_n because_o if_o once_o we_o doubt_v of_o one_o book_n receive_v for_o canonical_a the_o whole_a canon_n be_v make_v doubtful_a and_o uncertain_a and_o therefore_o the_o infallibility_n of_o scripture_n must_v be_v universal_a and_o not_o confine_v within_o compass_n of_o point_n fundamental_a 15._o i_o answer_v for_o the_o thing_n itself_o it_o be_v very_o true_a that_o if_o i_o doubt_v of_o any_o one_o parcel_n of_o scripture_n receive_v for_o such_o i_o may_v doubt_v of_o all_o and_o thence_o by_o the_o same_o parity_n i_o infer_v that_o if_o we_o do_v doubt_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n in_o some_o point_n we_o can_v not_o believe_v she_o in_o any_o one_o and_o consequent_o not_o in_o propound_v canonical_a book_n or_o any_o other_o point_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a which_o thing_n be_v most_o absurd_a and_o withal_o most_o impious_a we_o must_v take_v away_o the_o ground_n thereof_o &_o believe_v that_o she_o can_v err_v in_o any_o point_n great_a or_o small_a and_o so_o this_o reply_n do_v much_o more_o strengthen_v what_o we_o intend_v to_o prove_v yet_o i_o add_v that_o protestant_n can_v make_v use_n of_o this_o reply_n with_o any_o good_a coherence_n to_o this_o their_o distinction_n and_o some_o other_o doctrine_n which_o they_o defend_v for_o if_o d._n potter_n can_v tell_v what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a as_o in_o his_o 7._o sect._n he_o pretend_v than_o he_o may_v be_v sure_a that_o whensoever_o he_o meet_v with_o such_o point_n in_o scripture_n in_o they_o it_o be_v infallible_o true_a although_o it_o may_v err_v in_o other_o &_o not_o only_o true_a but_o clear_a because_o protestant_n teach_v that_o in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o scripture_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o all_o such_o necessary_a truth_n be_v either_o manifest_o contain_v therein_o or_o may_v be_v clear_o deduce_v from_o it_o which_o doctrine_n be_v put_v together_o to_o wit_n that_o scripture_n can_v err_v in_o point_n 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do_v or_o can_v with_o assurance_n believe_v the_o universal_a church_n in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o doctrine_n not_o in_o point_n of_o lesser_a moment_n which_o they_o call_v not_o fundamental_a because_o they_o believe_v that_o in_o such_o point_v she_o may_v err_v not_o in_o fundamental_n because_o they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a before_o they_o go_v to_o learn_v of_o she_o lest_o other_o wise_a they_o be_v rather_o delude_v then_o instruct_v in_o regard_n that_o her_o certain_a and_o infallible_a direction_n extend_v only_o to_o point_n fundamental_a now_o if_o before_o they_o address_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a they_o learn_v not_o of_o she_o but_o will_v be_v be_v as_o fit_a to_o teach_v as_o to_o be_v teach_v by_o she_o how_o then_o be_v all_o christian_n so_o often_o so_o serious_o upon_o so_o dreadful_a menace_n by_o father_n scripture_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o counsel_v and_o command_v to_o seek_v to_o hear_v to_o obey_v the_o church_n s._n augustine_n be_v of_o a_o very_a different_a mind_n from_o protestant_n if_o say_v he_o the_o 118._o the_o epist._n 118._o church_n through_o the_o whole_a world_n practice_v any_o of_o these_o thing_n to_o dispute_v whether_o that_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o do_v be_v a_o most_o insolent_a madness_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v that_o which_o 24._o which_o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr bapt._n c._n 24._o the_o whole_a church_n hold_v and_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o counsel_n but_o have_v always_o be_v keep_v be_v most_o right_o believe_v to_o be_v deliver_v by_o apostolical_a authority_n the_o same_o holy_a father_n teach_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o baptise_v child_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n the_o custom_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o 23._o the_o lib._n 10._o de_fw-la genesi_fw-la ad_fw-la litter_n cap._n 23._o church_n say_v he_o in_o baptise_v infant_n be_v in_o no_o wise_a to_o be_v contemn_v nor_o to_o be_v account_v superfluous_a nor_o be_v it_o at_o all_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o it_o be_v a_o apostolical_a tradition_n and_o elsewhere_o christ_n 18._o christ_n serm._n 54._o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n c._n 18._o be_v of_o profit_n to_o child_n baptize_v be_v he_o therefore_o of_o profit_n to_o person_n not_o believe_v but_o god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v say_v infant_n do_v not_o believe_v i_o have_v already_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o another_o who_o sin_v in_o another_o it_o be_v say_v he_o believe_v &_o it_o be_v of_o force_n and_o he_o be_v reckon_v among_o the_o faithful_a that_o be_v baptize_v this_o the_o authority_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v against_o this_o strength_n against_o this_o invincible_a wall_n whosoever_o rush_v shall_v be_v crush_v in_o piece_n to_o this_o argument_n the_o protestant_n in_o the_o conference_n at_o ratisbon_n give_v this_o round_a answer_n nos_fw-la ab_fw-la augustino_n 367._o augustino_n see_v protocoll_n monac_n edit_fw-la 2._o pag._n 367._o hac_fw-la in_o parte_fw-la liberè_fw-la dissentimus_fw-la in_o this_o we_o plain_o disagree_v from_o augustine_n now_o if_o this_o doctrine_n of_o baptise_v infant_n be_v not_o fundamental_a in_o d._n potter_n sense_n then_o according_a to_o s._n augustine_n the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n extend_v to_o point_n not_o fundamental_a but_o if_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n then_o according_a to_o the_o same_o holy_a doctor_n we_o must_v rely_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o some_o fundamental_a point_n not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o deliver_v by_o tradition_n the_o like_a argument_n i_o frame_v out_o of_o the_o same_o father_n about_o the_o not_o rebaptise_v of_o those_o who_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n whereof_o he_o excellent_o to_o our_o present_a purpose_n speak_v in_o this_o manner_n we_o follow_v 33._o follow_v lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 32._o &_o 33._o indeed_o in_o this_o matter_n even_o the_o most_o certain_a authority_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n but_o how_o consider_v his_o word_n although_o very_o there_o be_v bring_v no_o example_n for_o this_o point_n out_o of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n yet_o even_o in_o this_o point_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o same_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o while_o we_o do_v that_o which_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n do_v recommend_v that_o so_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v we_o whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o same_o church_n concern_v it_o which_o without_o any_o ambiguity_n the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v demonstrate_v to_o us._n among_o many_o other_o point_n in_o the_o aforesaid_a word_n we_o be_v to_o observe_v that_o according_a to_o this_o holy_a father_n when_o we_o prove_v some_o point_v not_o particular_o contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n even_o in_o that_o case_n we_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v say_v to_o believe_v such_o point_n without_o scripture_n because_o scripture_n itself_o recommend_v the_o church_n and_o therefore_o rely_v on_o she_o we_o rely_v on_o scripture_n without_o danger_n of_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o any_o question_n define_v by_o the_o church_n and_o else_o where_o he_o say_v see_v this_o be_v 19_o be_v de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n c._n 19_o write_v in_o no_o scripture_n we_o must_v believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n which_o christ_n declare_v to_o speak_v the_o truth_n but_o it_o seem_v d._n potter_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o this_o doctrine_n about_o not_o rebaptise_v such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n be_v no_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n nor_o the_o contrary_a a_o heresy_n wherein_o he_o contradict_v s._n augustine_n from_o who_o we_o have_v now_o
gain_v by_o holy_a scripture_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v far_o from_o our_o tongue_n and_o thought_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o for_o decision_n of_o controversy_n infallibility_n settle_v in_o a_o live_a judge_n be_v incomparable_o more_o useful_a and_o fit_a then_o if_o it_o be_v conceive_v as_o inherent_a in_o some_o inanimate_a writing_n be_v there_o such_o repugnance_n betwixt_o infallibility_n in_o the_o church_n and_o existence_n of_o scripture_n that_o the_o production_n of_o the_o one_o must_v be_v the_o destruction_n of_o the_o other_o must_v the_o church_n wax_v dry_a by_o give_v to_o her_o child_n the_o milk_n of_o sacred_a writ_n no_o no._n her_o infallibility_n be_v and_o be_v derive_v from_o a_o inexhausted_a fountain_n if_o protestant_n will_v have_v the_o scripture_n alone_o for_o their_o judge_n let_v they_o first_o produce_v some_o scripture_n affirm_v that_o by_o the_o enter_v thereof_o infallibility_n go_v out_o of_o the_o church_n d._n potter_n may_v remember_v what_o himself_o teach_v that_o the_o church_n be_v still_o endue_v with_o infallibility_n in_o point_n fundamental_a and_o consequent_o that_o infallibility_n in_o the_o church_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o the_o truth_n the_o sanctity_n yea_o with_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n for_o all_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n i_o will_v therefore_o glad_o know_v out_o of_o what_o text_n he_o imagine_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o come_n of_o scripture_n be_v deprive_v of_o infallibility_n in_o some_o point_n &_o not_o in_o other_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n retain_v infallibility_n in_o herself_o notwithstanding_o the_o write_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o will_v he_o so_o unworthy_o and_o unjust_o deprive_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n of_o infallibility_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n especial_o of_o we_o consider_v that_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n law_n ceremony_n rite_n punishment_n judgment_n sacrament_n sacrifice_n etc._n etc._n be_v more_o particular_o and_o minutely_o deliver_v to_o the_o jew_n then_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v do_v our_o saviour_n leave_v the_o determination_n or_o declaration_n of_o particular_n to_o his_o spouse_n the_o church_n which_o therefore_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o infallibility_n more_o than_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n d._n potter_n 24._o potter_n pag._n 24._o against_o this_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o power_n and_o infallibility_n of_o the_o synagogue_n object_n that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o infer_v that_o christian_n must_v have_v one_o sovereign_a prince_n over_o all_o because_o the_o jew_n have_v one_o chief_a judge_n but_o the_o disparity_n be_v very_o clear_a the_o synagogue_n be_v a_o type_n and_o figure_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n not_o so_o their_o civil_a government_n of_o christian_a commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n the_o church_n succeed_v to_o the_o synagogue_n but_o not_o christian_n prince_n to_o jewish_a magistrate_n and_o the_o church_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o house_n or_o 13._o or_o heb._n 13._o family_n to_o a_o 2._o a_o cant._n 2._o army_n to_o a_o 4._o a_o 1._o cor._n 10._o ephes_n 4._o body_n to_o a_o 12_o a_o matt._n 12_o kingdom_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o require_v one_o master_n one_o general_n one_o head_n one_o magistrate_n one_o spiritual_a king_n as_o our_o bless_a saviour_n with_o fiet_fw-la vnum_fw-la ovile_n 10._o ovile_n joan._n c._n 10._o join_v vnus_fw-la pastor_n one_o sheepfold_a one_o pastor_n but_o all_o distinct_a kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n be_v not_o one_o army_n family_n etc._n etc._n and_o final_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o all_o have_v recourse_n to_o one_o church_n but_o for_o temporal_a weal_n there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o all_o submit_v or_o depend_v upon_o one_o temporal_a prince_n kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n and_o therefore_o our_o samour_n have_v leave_v to_o his_o whole_a church_n as_o be_v one_o one_o law_n one_o scripture_n the_o same_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o kingdom_n have_v their_o several_a law_n disterent_fw-la government_n diversity_n of_o power_n magistracy_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o this_o objection_n return_v upon_o d._n potter_n for_o as_o in_o the_o one_o community_n of_o the_o jew_n there_o be_v one_o power_n and_o judge_n to_o end_v debate_n and_o resolve_v difficulty_n so_o in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v one_o there_o must_v be_v some_o one_o authority_n to_o decide_v all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n 24._o this_o discourse_n be_v excellent_o prove_v by_o ancient_a s._n irenaeus_n 4_o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o c._n 4_o in_o these_o word_n what_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v not_o leave_v scripture_n ought_v we_o not_o to_o have_v follow_v the_o order_n of_o tradition_n which_o they_o deliver_v to_o those_o to_o who_o they_o commit_v the_o church_n to_o which_o order_n many_o nation_n yield_v assent_v who_o believe_v in_o christ_n have_v salvation_n write_v in_o their_o heart_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n without_o letter_n or_o ink_n and_o diligent_o keep_v ancient_a tradition_n it_o be_v easy_a to_o receive_v the_o truth_n from_o god_n church_n see_v the_o apostle_n have_v most_o full_o deposit_v in_o she_o as_o in_o a_o rich_a storehouse_n all_o thing_n belong_v to_o truth_n for_o what_o if_o there_o shall_v arise_v any_o contention_n of_o some_o small_a question_n ought_v we_o not_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o most_o ancient_a church_n and_o from_o they_o to_o receive_v what_o be_v certain_a and_o clear_a concern_v the_o present_a question_n 25_o beside_o all_o this_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n be_v destructive_a of_o itself_o for_o either_o they_o have_v certain_a and_o infallible_a mean_n not_o to_o err_v in_o interpret_n scripture_n or_o they_o have_v not_o if_o not_o then_o the_o scripture_n to_o they_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o infallible_a faith_n nor_o a_o meet_a judge_n of_o controversy_n if_o they_o have_v certain_a infallible_a mean_n and_o so_o can_v err_v in_o their_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n then_o they_o be_v able_a with_o infallibility_n to_o hear_v examine_v and_o determine_v all_o controversy_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o they_o may_v be_v and_o be_v judge_n of_o controversy_n although_o they_o use_v the_o scripture_n as_o a_o rule_n and_o thus_o against_o their_o own_o doctrine_n they_o constitute_v a_o other_o judge_n of_o controversy_n beside_o scripture_n alone_o 26._o last_o i_o ask_v d._n potter_n whether_o this_o assertion_n scripture_n alone_o be_v judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n in_o faith_n be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n or_o no_o he_o must_v be_v well_o advise_v before_o he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n for_o he_o will_v have_v against_o he_o as_o many_o protestant_n as_o teach_v that_o by_o scripture_n alone_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o know_v what_o book_n be_v scripture_n which_o yet_o to_o protestant_n be_v the_o most_o necessary_a and_o chief_a point_n of_o all_o other_o d._n covell_n express_o say_v doubtless_o 31._o doubtless_o in_o his_o defence_n of_o m._n hokers_n book_n art_n 4._o p._n 31._o it_o be_v a_o tolerable_a opinion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o they_o go_v no_o further_o as_o some_o of_o they_o do_v not_o he_o shall_v have_v say_v as_o none_o of_o they_o do_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v holy_a and_o divine_a in_o themselves_o but_o so_o esteem_v by_o we_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n he_o will_v likewise_o oppose_v himself_o to_o those_o his_o brethren_n who_o grant_v that_o controversy_n can_v be_v end_v without_o some_o external_a live_a authority_n as_o we_o note_v before_o beside_o how_o can_v it_o be_v in_o we_o a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o say_v the_o scripture_n alone_o be_v not_o judge_n of_o controversy_n see_v notwithstanding_o this_o our_o belief_n we_o use_v for_o interpret_n of_o scripture_n all_o the_o mean_n which_o they_o prescribe_v as_o prayer_n confer_v of_o place_n consult_v the_o original_n &c._n &c._n and_o to_o these_o add_v the_o instruction_n and_o authority_n of_o god_n church_n which_o even_o by_o his_o confession_n can_v err_v damnable_o and_o may_v afford_v we_o more_o help_n then_o can_v be_v expect_v from_o the_o industry_n learning_n or_o wit_n of_o any_o private_a person_n &_o final_o d_o potter_n grant_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o maintain_v any_o fundamental_a error_n against_o faith_n and_o consequent_o he_o can_v affirm_v that_o our_o doctrine_n in_o this_o present_a controversy_n be_v damnable_a if_o he_o answer_v that_o their_o tenet_n about_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a judge_n of_o controversy_n be_v not_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n then_o as_o he_o teach_v that_o the_o universal_a church_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a so_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o particular_a church_n and_o private_a man_n be_v much_o more_o obnoxious_a to_o error_n in_o such_o
say_v to_o know_v whether_o he_o believe_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n for_o if_o he_o do_v his_o faith_n for_o point_n of_o belief_n be_v sufficient_a for_o salvation_n though_o he_o err_v in_o a_o hundred_o thing_n of_o less_o moment_n but_o how_o shall_v i_o know_v whether_o he_o hold_v all_o fundamental_a point_n or_o no_o for_o till_o you_o tell_v i_o this_o i_o can_v know_v whether_o or_o no_o his_o belief_n be_v sound_a in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n can_v you_o say_v the_o creed_n yes_o and_o so_o can_v many_o damnable_a heretic_n but_o why_o do_v you_o ask_v i_o this_o question_n because_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o not_o sure_a i_o hold_v it_o very_o probable_a 241._o probable_a pag._n 241._o shall_v i_o hazard_v my_o soul_n on_o probability_n or_o even_a wager_n this_o yield_v a_o new_a cause_n of_o despair_n but_o what_o do_v the_o creed_n contain_v all_o point_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v whether_o they_o rest_v in_o the_o understanding_n or_o else_o do_v further_o extend_v to_o practice_v no._n it_o be_v compose_v to_o deliver_v credenda_fw-la not_o agenda_fw-la to_o we_o faith_n not_o practice_n how_o then_o shall_v i_o know_v what_o point_v of_o belief_n which_o direct_v my_o practice_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n still_o you_o chalk_n out_o new_a path_n for_o desperation_n well_o be_v all_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n for_o their_o nature_n and_o matter_n fundamental_a i_o can_v say_v so_o how_o then_o shall_v i_o know_v which_o in_o particular_a be_v and_o which_o be_v not_o fundamental_a read_v my_o answer_n to_o a_o late_a popish_a pamphlet_n entitle_v charity_n mistake_v etc._n etc._n there_o you_o shall_v find_v that_o fundamental_a doctrine_n be_v such_o catholic_a verity_n as_o principal_o and_o essential_o pertain_v 211.213.214_o pertain_v pag._n 211.213.214_o to_o the_o faith_n such_o as_o proper_o constitute_v a_o church_n and_o be_v necessary_a in_o ordinary_a course_n to_o be_v distinct_o believe_v by_o every_o christian_n that_o will_v be_v save_v they_o be_v those_o grand_a and_o capital_a doctrine_n which_o make_v up_o our_o faith_n in_o christ_n that_o be_v that_o common_a faith_n which_o be_v alike_o precious_a in_o all_o be_v one_o &_o the_o same_o in_o the_o high_a apostle_n &_o the_o mean_a believer_n which_o the_o apostle_n elsewhere_o call_v the_o first_o principle_n of_o the_o oracle_n of_o god_n and_o the_o form_n of_o sound_a word_n but_o how_o shall_v i_o apply_v these_o general_a definition_n or_o description_n or_o to_o say_v the_o truth_n these_o only_a vary_a word_n and_o phrase_n for_o i_o understand_v the_o word_n fundamental_a as_o well_o as_o the_o word_n principal_a essential_a grand_a and_o capital_a doctrine_n &c._n &c._n to_o the_o particular_a article_n of_o the_o creed_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o i_o may_v be_v able_a precise_o exact_o particular_o to_o distinguish_v fundamental_a article_n from_o point_n of_o less_o moment_n you_o labour_v to_o tell_v we_o what_o fundamental_a point_n be_v but_o not_o which_o they_o be_v and_o yet_o unless_o you_o do_v this_o your_o doctrine_n serve_v only_o either_o to_o make_v man_n despair_v or_o else_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o those_o who_o you_o call_v papist_n and_o who_o give_v one_o certain_a rule_n that_o all_o point_v define_v by_o christ_n visible_a church_n belong_v to_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n in_o such_o sense_n as_o that_o to_o deny_v any_o one_o can_v stand_v with_o salvation_n and_o see_v yourself_o acknowledge_v that_o these_o man_n do_v not_o err_v in_o point_n fundamental_a i_o can_v but_o hold_v it_o most_o safe_a for_o i_o to_o loin_n with_o they_o for_o the_o secure_n of_o my_o soul_n and_o the_o avoid_n of_o desperation_n into_o which_o this_o your_o doctrine_n must_v cast_v all_o they_o who_o understand_v and_o believe_v it_o for_o the_o whole_a discourse_n and_o inference_n which_o here_o i_o have_v make_v be_v either_o your_o own_o direct_a assertion_n or_o evident_a consequence_n clear_o deduce_v from_o they_o 20._o but_o now_o let_v we_o answer_v some_o few_o objection_n of_o d._n potter_n against_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v before_o to_o avoid_v our_o argument_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v in_o the_o creed_n he_o say_v the_o creed_n be_v a_o abstract_n of_o such_o 234._o such_o pag._n 234._o necessary_a doctrine_n as_o be_v deliver_v in_o scripture_n or_o collect_v out_o of_o it_o and_o therefore_o need_v not_o express_v the_o authority_n of_o that_o which_o it_o suppose_v 21._o this_o answer_n make_v for_o us._n for_o by_o give_v a_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v needle_n that_o scripture_n shall_v be_v express_v in_o the_o creed_n you_o grant_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v namely_o that_o the_o apostle_n judge_v it_o needle_n to_o express_v all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n in_o their_o creed_n neither_o do_v the_o creed_n suppose_v or_o depend_v on_o scripture_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o we_o can_v by_o any_o probable_a consequence_n infer_v from_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n that_o there_o be_v any_o canonical_a scripture_n at_o all_o and_o much_o less_o that_o such_o book_n in_o particular_a be_v canonical_a yea_o the_o creed_n may_v have_v be_v the_o same_o although_o holy_a scripture_n have_v never_o be_v write_v and_o which_o be_v more_o the_o creed_n even_o in_o priority_n of_o time_n be_v before_o all_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n except_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n matthew_n and_o so_o according_a to_o this_o reason_n of_o his_o the_o scripture_n shall_v not_o mention_v article_n contain_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n how_o little_a connexion_n d._n potter_n argument_n have_v while_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o creed_n 234._o creed_n pag._n 234._o be_v a_o abstract_n of_o such_o necessary_a doctrine_n as_o be_v deliver_v in_o scripture_n or_o collect_v out_o of_o it_o and_o therefore_o need_v not_o express_v the_o authority_n of_o that_o which_o it_o suppose_v it_o do_v not_o follow_v the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v deliver_v in_o scripture_n therefore_o the_o creed_n suppose_v scripture_n for_o two_o distinct_a writing_n may_v well_o deliver_v the_o same_o truth_n and_o yet_o one_o of_o they_o not_o suppose_v the_o other_o unless_o d._n potter_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o two_o doctor_n can_v at_o one_o time_n speak_v the_o same_o truth_n 22._o and_o notwithstanding_o that_o d._n potter_n have_v now_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v needle_n that_o the_o creed_n shall_v express_v scripture_n who_o authority_n it_o suppose_v he_o come_v at_o length_n to_o say_v that_o the_o nicene_n father_n in_o their_o creed_n confess_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v by_o the_o prophet_n do_v thereby_o sufficient_o avow_v the_o divine_a authority_n of_o all_o canonical_a scripture_n but_o i_o will_v ask_v he_o whether_o the_o nicene_n creed_n be_v not_o also_o a_o abstract_n of_o doctrine_n deliver_v in_o scripture_n as_o he_o say_v of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o thence_o do_v infer_v that_o it_o be_v needle_n to_o express_v scripture_n who_o authority_n it_o suppose_v beside_o we_o do_v not_o only_o believe_v in_o general_a that_o canonical_a scripture_n be_v of_o divine_a authority_n but_o we_o be_v also_o bind_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o believe_v that_o such_o and_o such_o particular_a book_n not_o mention_v in_o the_o nicene_n creed_n be_v canonical_a and_o last_o d._n potter_n in_o this_o answer_n grant_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v which_o be_v that_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n even_o as_o it_o be_v explain_v by_o other_o creed_n for_o these_o word_n who_o speak_v by_o the_o prophet_n be_v no_o way_n contain_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o therefore_o contain_v a_o addition_n not_o a_o explanation_n thereof_o 23._o but_o how_o can_v it_o be_v necessary_a say_v d._n potter_n for_o any_o christian_a to_o have_v more_o in_o his_o creed_n then_o the_o 221._o the_o pag._n 221._o apostle_n have_v and_o the_o church_n of_o their_o time_n i_o answer_v you_o trifle_v not_o distinguish_v between_o the_o apostle_n belief_n and_o that_o abridgement_n of_o some_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o we_o call_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o withal_o you_o beg_v the_o question_n by_o suppose_v that_o the_o apostle_n believe_v no_o more_o then_o be_v contain_v in_o their_o creed_n which_o every_o unlearned_a person_n know_v and_o believe_v and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o the_o apostle_n be_v endue_v with_o great_a knowledge_n then_o ordinary_a person_n 24._o your_o pretend_a proof_n out_o of_o the_o act_n that_o the_o apostle_n reveal_v to_o the_o church_n the_o whole_a counsel_n of_o god_n keep_v 20.27_o keep_v act._n 20.27_o
do_v not_o separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o society_n of_o the_o infect_a person_n how_o do_v they_o free_v themselves_o &_o depart_v from_o the_o common_a disease_n do_v they_o at_o the_o same_o time_n remain_v in_o the_o company_n and_o yet_o depart_v from_o those_o infect_a creature_n we_o must_v then_o say_v that_o they_o separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o person_n though_o it_o be_v by_o occasion_n of_o the_o disease_n or_o if_o you_o say_v they_o free_v their_o own_o person_n from_o the_o common_a disease_n yet_o so_o that_o they_o remain_v still_o in_o the_o company_n infect_v subject_a to_o the_o superior_n and_o governor_n thereof_o eat_v &_o drink_v &_o keep_v public_a assembly_n with_o they_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o luther_n and_o your_o reformer_n the_o first_o pretend_v free_a person_n from_o the_o suppose_a common_a infection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v not_o so_o for_o they_o endeavour_v to_o force_v the_o society_n whereof_o they_o be_v part_n to_o be_v heal_v and_o reform_v as_o they_o be_v and_o if_o it_o refuse_v they_o do_v when_o they_o have_v force_n drive_v they_o away_o even_o their_o superior_n both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a as_o be_v notorious_a or_o if_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o expel_v that_o suppose_a infect_a community_n or_o church_n of_o that_o place_n they_o depart_v from_o they_o corporal_o who_o mental_o they_o have_v forsake_v before_o so_o that_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o luther_n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n and_o company_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o which_o as_o yourself_o 75._o yourself_o pag._n 75._o confess_v there_o neither_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v any_o just_a cause_n no_o more_o then_o to_o depart_v from_o christ_n himself_o we_o do_v therefore_o infer_v that_o luther_n and_o the_o rest_n who_o forsake_v that_o visible_a church_n which_o they_o find_v upon_o earth_n be_v true_o and_o proper_o schismatic_n 35._o moreover_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o there_o be_v a_o division_n between_o luther_n and_o that_o church_n which_o be_v visible_a when_o he_o arise_v but_o that_o church_n can_v be_v say_v to_o have_v divide_v herself_o from_o he_o before_o who_o time_n she_o be_v &_o in_o comparison_n of_o who_o she_o be_v a_o whole_a and_o he_o but_o a_o part_n therefore_o we_o must_v say_v that_o he_o divide_v himself_o &_o go_v out_o of_o she_o which_o be_v to_o be_v a_o schismatique_a or_o heretic_n or_o both_o by_o this_o argument_n optatus_n melivitanus_n prove_v that_o not_o caecilianus_n but_o parmenianus_n be_v a_o schismatique_a say_v for_o caecilianus_n go_v parm._n go_v lib._n 1._o cont_n parm._n not_o out_o of_o maiorinus_n thy_o grandfather_n but_o maiorinus_n from_o caecilianus_n neither_o do_v caecilianus_n depart_v from_o the_o chair_n of_o peter_n or_o cyprian_a but_o maiorinus_n in_o who_o chair_n thou_o sit_v which_o have_v no_o beginning_n before_o maiorinus_n since_o it_o manifest_o appear_v that_o these_o thing_n be_v act_v in_o this_o manuer_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o you_o be_v heir_n both_o of_o the_o deliverer_n up_o of_o the_o holy_a bible_n to_o be_v burn_v and_o also_o of_o schismatic_n the_o whole_a argument_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n make_v direct_o both_o against_o luther_n and_o all_o those_o who_o continue_v the_o division_n which_o he_o begin_v and_o prove_v that_o go_v out_o convince_v those_o who_o go_v out_o to_o be_v scismatiques_n but_o not_o those_o from_o who_o they_o depart_v that_o to_o forsake_v the_o chair_n of_o peter_n be_v schism_n yea_o that_o it_o be_v schism_n to_o erect_v a_o chair_n which_o have_v no_o origin_n or_o as_o it_o be_v predecessor_n before_o itself_o that_o to_o continue_v in_o a_o division_n begin_v by_o other_o be_v to_o be_v heir_n of_o schismatic_n and_o last_o that_o to_o depart_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o that_o of_o s._n cyprian_n be_v be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o man_n incur_v the_o guilt_n of_o schism_n and_o consequent_o that_o although_o protestant_n who_o deny_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v supreme_a head_n of_o the_o church_n do_v think_v by_o that_o heresy_n to_o clear_a luther_n from_o schism_n in_o disobey_v the_o pope_n yet_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v to_o free_v he_o from_o schism_n as_o it_o import_v a_o division_n from_o the_o obedience_n or_o communion_n of_o the_o particular_a bishop_n diocese_n church_n &_o country_n where_o he_o live_v 36._o but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o heresy_n of_o protestant_n or_o any_o other_o sectary_n that_o can_v deprive_v s._n peter_n and_o his_o successor_n of_o the_o authority_n which_o christ_n our_o lord_n confer_v upon_o they_o over_o his_o whole_a militant_a church_n which_o be_v a_o point_n confess_v by_o learned_a protestant_n to_o be_v of_o great_a antiquity_n and_o for_o which_o the_o judgement_n of_o diverse_a most_o ancient_a holy_a father_n be_v reprove_v by_o they_o as_o may_v be_v see_v at_o large_a in_o brereley_o 10._o brereley_o tract_n 1._o sect._n 3._o subd_v 10._o exact_o cite_v the_o place_n of_o such_o chief_a protestant_n and_o we_o must_v say_v with_o s._n cyprian_a heresy_n 55._o heresy_n epist._n 55._o have_v spring_v and_o schism_n be_v breed_v from_o no_o other_o cause_n then_o for_o that_o the_o priest_n of_o god_n be_v not_o obey_v nor_o one_o priest_n and_o judge_n be_v consider_v to_o be_v for_o the_o time_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o word_n do_v plain_o condemn_v luther_n whether_o he_o will_v understand_v they_o as_o speak_v of_o the_o universal_a or_o of_o every_o particular_a church_n for_o he_o withdraw_v himself_o both_o from_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o of_o all_o particular_a bishop_n and_o church_n and_o no_o less_o clear_a be_v the_o say_v optatus_n melivitanus_n say_v thou_o cause_v not_o deny_v parm._n deny_v lib_fw-la 2._o cont_n parm._n but_o that_o thou_o know_v that_o in_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n there_o be_v first_o a_o episcopal_a chair_n place_v for_o peter_n wherein_o peter_n the_o head_n of_o all_o the_o apost_n es_fw-mi sit_v whereof_o also_o he_o be_v call_v cephas_n in_o which_o one_o chair_n unity_n be_v to_o be_v keep_v by_o all_o lest_o the_o other_o apostle_n may_v attribute_v to_o themselves_o each_o one_o his_o particular_a chair_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o schismatique_a and_o sinner_n who_o against_o that_o one_o single_a chair_n shall_v erect_v another_o many_o other_o authority_n of_o father_n may_v be_v allege_v to_o this_o purpose_n which_o i_o omit_v my_o intention_n be_v not_o to_o handle_v particular_a controversy_n 37._o now_o the_o argument_n which_o hitherto_o i_o have_v bring_v prove_v that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n without_o examine_v for_o as_o much_o as_o belong_v to_o this_o point_n whether_o for_o no_o the_o church_n can_v err_v in_o any_o one_o thing_n great_a or_o small_a because_o it_o be_v universal_o true_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n according_a to_o s._n augustine_n say_v it_o be_v not_o possible_a 48._o possible_a ep._n 48._o that_o any_o may_v have_v just_a cause_n to_o separate_v their_o communion_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o call_v themselves_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n as_o if_o they_o have_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o all_o nation_n upon_o just_a cause_n but_o since_o indeed_o the_o church_n can_v err_v in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o doctrine_n nor_o can_v approve_v any_o corruption_n in_o manner_n they_o can_v with_o any_o colour_n avoid_v the_o just_a imputation_n of_o eminent_a schism_n according_a to_o the_o verdict_n of_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n in_o these_o word_n the_o most_o manifest_a 1._o manifest_a de_fw-fr bapt._n lib._n 5._o ç._fw-la 1._o sacrilege_n of_o schism_n be_v eminent_a when_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n of_o separation_n 38._o last_o i_o prove_v that_o protestant_n can_v avoid_v the_o note_n of_o schism_n at_o least_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o mutual_a separation_n from_o one_o another_o for_o most_o certain_a it_o be_v that_o there_o be_v very_o great_a difference_n for_o the_o outward_a face_n of_o a_o church_n and_o profession_n of_o a_o different_a faith_n between_o the_o lutheran_n the_o rigid_a caluinist_n and_o the_o protestant_n of_o england_n so_o that_o if_o luther_n be_v in_o the_o right_n those_o other_o protestant_n who_o invent_a doctrine_n far_o different_a from_o he_o and_o divide_v themselves_o from_o he_o must_v be_v repute_v schismatic_n &_o the_o like_a argument_n may_v proportionable_o be_v apply_v to_o their_o further_a division_n and_o subdivision_n which_o reason_n i_o yet_o urge_v more_o strong_o out_o of_o d_o potter_n 20._o potter_n pag._n 20._o who_o affirm_v that_o to_o he_o &_o to_o such_o as_o be_v convict_v in_o conscience_n of_o the_o
victor_n have_v excommunicate_v and_o so_o they_o come_v to_o be_v rank_v among_o heretic_n under_o the_o name_n of_o quartadecimam_fw-la you_o may_v know_v what_o opinion_n s._n irenaeus_n have_v of_o pope_n by_o these_o word_n every_o church_n ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n 3._o recourse_n adverse_a haeres_fw-la lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o to_o rome_n by_o reason_n of_o she_o more_o powerful_a principality_n and_o even_o in_o this_o your_o instance_n eusebius_n do_v only_o say_v that_o irenaeus_n do_v fit_o exhort_v pope_n victor_n that_o he_o shall_v not_o cut_v off_o all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o hold_v this_o ancient_a tradition_n which_o exhortation_n do_v necessary_o imply_v that_o pope_n victor_n have_v power_n to_o do_v it_o as_o i_o say_v already_o and_o now_o i_o pray_v you_o reflect_v upon_o your_o precipitation_n in_o say_v of_o vactor_n and_o stephen_n their_o censure_n 50._o censure_n pag._n 50._o be_v much_o slight_v and_o their_o pride_n and_o schism_n in_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n much_o condemn_v for_o they_o do_v nothing_o which_o be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n of_o god_n and_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o condemn_v be_v no_o less_o than_o heretical_a and_o therefore_o to_o answer_v also_o to_o what_o you_o object_n pag._n 52._o if_o the_o british_a and_o scotish_n bishop_n do_v adhere_v to_o the_o church_n of_o asta_n in_o their_o celebration_n of_o easter_n after_o the_o matter_n be_v know_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n their_o example_n can_v only_o be_v approve_v by_o such_o as_o yourself_o nor_o can_v it_o either_o impeach_v the_o authority_n or_o darken_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o pope_n you_o cite_v baronius_n 604._o baronius_n aun_n 604._o in_o the_o margin_n who_o direct_o against_o you_o relate_v out_o of_o bede_n that_o when_o our_o apostle_n s._n augustine_n can_v neither_o by_o argument_n nor_o by_o miracle_n wrought_v in_o their_o presence_n bow_v their_o stiffness_n he_o prophefy_v that_o they_o shall_v perish_v by_o the_o english_a as_o afterward_o it_o happen_v but_o you_o be_v a_o fit_a champion_n for_o such_o man_n and_o they_o no_o less_o fit_a example_n to_o be_v allege_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n 33._o your_o other_o example_n that_o s._n augustine_n and_o diverse_a other_o bishop_n of_o africa_n and_o their_o successor_n for_o one_o hundred_o year_n together_o be_v sener_v from_o the_o roman_a communion_n be_v manifest_o untrue_a in_o s._n augustine_n and_o some_o other_o chief_a bishop_n for_o when_o king_n thrasimundus_n have_v banish_v into_o sardinia_n almost_o all_o the_o bishop_n to_o wit_n two_o hundred_o and_o twenty_o pope_n symmachus_n maintain_v they_o at_o his_o own_o charge_n as_o person_n belong_v to_o his_o communion_n to_o the_o epistle_n of_o boniface_n the_o second_o to_o eulalius_n bishop_n of_o alexandria_n and_o the_o epistle_n of_o eulalius_n to_o the_o same_o boniface_n recite_v by_o you_o out_o of_o which_o it_o be_v gather_v that_o after_o the_o sixth_o council_n of_o carthage_n for_o the_o space_n of_o one_o hundred_o year_n the_o bishop_n of_o carthage_n be_v separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n &_o that_o in_o the_o end_n they_o be_v reconcile_v to_o she_o eulalius_n submit_v himself_o to_o the_o apostolic_a sea_n and_o anathematise_v his_o predecessor_n bellarmine_n 25._o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr rom._n pont._n l._n 2._o c._n 25._o answer_v that_o these_o epistle_n may_v just_o be_v suspect_v to_o be_v apocryphal_a for_o diverse_a reason_n which_o he_o allege_v and_o it_o seem_v also_o by_o your_o own_o word_n that_o you_o do_v doubt_n of_o they_o for_o you_o say_v if_o their_o own_o record_n 50_o record_n pag._n 50_o be_v true_a yet_o if_o they_o be_v authentical_a their_o meaning_n can_v be_v that_o all_o the_o predecessor_n of_o eulalius_n be_v for_o so_o long_a space_n divide_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n the_o contrary_a be_v most_o manifest_a not_o only_o in_o s._n augustine_n who_o keep_v most_o strict_a amity_n with_o zozimus_n innocentius_n and_o celestinus_fw-la pope_n but_o also_o in_o s._n fulgentius_n and_o other_o but_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v only_o of_o some_o bishop_n of_o carthage_n and_o in_o particular_a of_o eulalius_n himself_o till_o he_o be_v inform_v of_o the_o truth_n submit_v himself_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o you_o ought_v rather_o to_o have_v allege_v his_o submission_n and_o condemnation_n of_o his_o predecessor_n to_o prove_v the_o pope_n authority_n over_o the_o african_a church_n then_o to_o object_v against_o it_o the_o example_n of_o some_o of_o his_o predecessor_n &_o of_o himself_o who_o afterward_o repent_v and_o condemn_v his_o own_o fact_n you_o do_v well_o only_o to_o mention_v the_o protension_n and_o forgery_n of_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o appeal_v for_o you_o may_v know_v that_o bellarmine_n vbisup_n bellarmine_n vbisup_n do_v so_o full_o answer_v that_o point_n as_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o effectual_a to_o prove_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n in_o africa_n than_o the_o right_n of_o appeal_v from_o africa_n to_o rome_n in_o cause_n of_o great_a moment_n 34._o your_o last_o instance_n about_o three_o chapter_n of_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n condemn_v by_o the_o five_o general_n council_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n at_o length_n consent_v for_o which_o diverse_a bishop_n of_o italy_n and_o also_o the_o bishop_n of_o ireland_n do_v joint_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v like_a to_o your_o former_a objection_n for_o baronius_n who_o you_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n have_v these_o word_n as_o contrary_a to_o your_o purpose_n as_o may_v be_v hence_o be_v it_o that_o the_o spond_n the_o ann._n 553._o num_fw-la 14._o apud_fw-la spond_n bishop_n of_o venice_n &_o the_o adicyne_a region_n do_v gathâ—â—_n together_o a_o council_n at_o aquileia_n against_o the_o five_o synod_n and_o the_o division_n at_o length_n go_v as_o far_o as_o â—reland_n for_o all_o these_o rely_v on_o the_o decree_n of_o vigilius_n pope_n persuade_v themselves_o that_o they_o may_v do_v it_o be_v this_o to_o depart_v from_o the_o pope_n or_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o oppose_v that_o which_o he_o be_v think_v to_o oppose_v &_o formal_o because_o he_o be_v think_v to_o oppose_v it_o now_o as_o for_o the_o thing_n itself_o when_o vigilius_n have_v afterward_o conden_v the_o three_o chapter_n which_o at_o the_o first_o he_o refuse_v to_o do_v and_o have_v confirm_v the_o five_o council_n which_o have_v condemn_v they_o whosoever_o oppose_v that_o condemnation_n be_v account_v schismatic_n by_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n which_o plain_o show_v the_o pope_n authority_n and_o therefore_o whatsoever_o bishop_n have_v oppose_v vigilius_n their_o example_n can_v prove_v no_o more_o than_o the_o faction_n of_o rebellious_a person_n can_v prejudice_n the_o right_a of_o a_o lawful_a king_n and_o in_o fine_a all_o this_o controversy_n do_v nothing_o concern_v any_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o in_o fact_n and_o not_o doctrine_n but_o person_n as_o may_v be_v see_v at_o large_a in_o baronius_n neither_o be_v it_o betwixt_o catholic_n and_o heretic_n but_o among_o catholic_n themselves_n the_o rest_n of_o your_o section_n need_v no_o answer_n at_o all_o only_o whereas_o you_o say_v whosoever_o wilful_o oppose_v 57_o oppose_v pag._n 57_o any_o catholic_a verity_n maintain_v by_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n as_o do_v heretic_n or_o perverse_o divide_v himself_o from_o the_o catholic_a communion_n as_o do_v schismatic_n the_o condition_n of_o both_o they_o be_v damnable_a what_o understand_v you_o by_o catholic_a verity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v not_o all_o veritye_n maintain_v by_o the_o catholic_a church_n catholic_a verity_n or_o how_o do_v you_o now_o distinguish_v heresy_n and_o schism_n from_o the_o catholic_a communion_n you_o tell_v we_o pag._n 76._o that_o it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o schism_n to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o church_n from_o which_o it_o separat_n and_o be_v it_o not_o a_o heresy_n to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n &_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o catholic_a church_n how_o then_o can_v one_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n be_v a_o schismatique_a from_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o not_o be_v joint_o a_o heretic_n chap._n iii_o the_o protestant_n 59_o protestant_n pag._n 59_o never_o intend_v to_o erect_v a_o new_a church_n but_o to_o purge_v the_o old_a the_o reformation_n do_v not_o change_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n but_o only_o cleanse_v it_o from_o corrupt_a and_o impure_a quality_n therefore_o say_v we_o the_o visible_a church_n extant_a before_o those_o your_o cleanse_a day_n have_v &_o still_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n and_o so_o according_a to_o your_o own_o ground_n we_o be_v safe_a if_o
the_o same_o point_v the_o scripture_n be_v also_o sufficient_a and_o clear_a which_o cuident_o show_v that_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v well_o stand_v with_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n &_o consequent_o to_o oppose_v either_o the_o scripture_n or_o church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v one_o a_o heretic_n and_o this_o be_v sufficient_a for_o our_o purpose_n yea_o since_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o it_o be_v heresy_n to_o oppose_v the_o scripture_n and_o that_o you_o also_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n affirm_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n it_o follow_v that_o even_o according_a to_o you_o every_o one_o who_o oppose_v the_o church_n in_o such_o point_n be_v a_o heretic_n even_o because_o he_o oppose_v the_o church_n although_o the_o further_a reason_n hereof_o be_v because_o he_o oppose_v the_o scripture_n which_o recommend_v the_o church_n so_o that_o all_o which_o you_o have_v say_v about_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n alone_o be_v in_o diverse_a respect_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n 5._o you_o affirm_v that_o 136_o that_o pag._n 136_o eckius_fw-la pighius_fw-la hosius_n turrianus_n costerus_n do_v every_o where_o in_o their_o writing_n speak_v wicked_o and_o contumelious_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o because_o this_o be_v a_o common_a slander_n of_o protestant_n against_o catholic_a writer_n i_o do_v here_o challenge_v you_o to_o produce_v but_o one_o i_o say_v but_o one_o only_a place_n either_o out_o of_o any_o one_o of_o these_o who_o you_o name_v or_o any_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n who_o speak_v wicked_o or_o contumelious_o against_o holy_a scripture_n but_o be_v sure_a you_o do_v not_o confound_v speak_v against_o scripture_n itself_o with_o speak_v against_o the_o abuse_n thereof_o or_o against_o the_o letter_n of_o scripture_n wrest_v to_o some_o heretical_a sense_n against_o which_o our_o author_n speak_v and_o can_v speak_v 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testimony_n absolute_o divine_a and_o yet_o our_o adversary_n yield_v that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o present_a church_n be_v not_o absolute_o divine_a to_o which_o purpose_n you_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n some_o of_o our_o author_n and_o therefore_o it_o can_v rely_v upon_o the_o church_n 7._o this_o your_o discourse_n be_v neither_o pertinent_a nor_o true_a for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o as_o i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o whether_o or_o no_o our_o faith_n be_v resolve_v into_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n but_o whether_o we_o may_v not_o true_o infer_v that_o whosoever_o resist_v the_o church_n in_o those_o point_n which_o she_o do_v infallible_o propose_v as_o reveal_v by_o god_n which_o infallibility_n you_o yield_v to_o she_o for_o all_o fundamental_a point_n be_v not_o a_o heretic_n because_o at_o lest_o by_o resist_v the_o church_n he_o consequent_o come_v to_o oppose_v the_o testimony_n or_o reuclation_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n beside_o if_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n work_v but_o probable_o upon_o infidel_n and_o novice_n who_o by_o you_o be_v teach_v to_o believe_v that_o she_o may_v err_v unless_o you_o will_v circumvent_v they_o by_o dissemble_v her_o fallibility_n they_o will_v have_v wit_n enough_o to_o tell_v themselves_o that_o since_o she_o may_v err_v and_o speak_v but_o probable_o she_o can_v work_v so_o powerful_o upon_o they_o but_o that_o they_o may_v still_o doubt_v whether_o she_o do_v not_o actual_o err_v and_o deceive_v they_o and_o how_o can_v the_o church_n work_v upon_o all_o within_o she_o to_o prepare_v induce_v and_o persuade_v the_o mind_n to_o embrace_v the_o faith_n to_o read_v and_o believe_v scripture_n be_v they_o within_o the_o church_n before_o they_o have_v embrace_v the_o faith_n or_o must_v they_o want_v faith_n till_o they_o read_v and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n or_o rather_o since_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n all_o faith_n depend_v on_o 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by_o half_n answer_v your_o objection_n in_o the_o very_a word_n which_o you_o allege_v although_o say_v he_o the_o church_n 2._o church_n disp_n 9_o dub_v 5._o conel_n 2._o be_v direct_v by_o the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n her_o testimony_n do_v in_o some_o sort_n rely_v upon_o the_o divine_a authority_n and_o receive_v from_o it_o strength_n all_o which_o word_n you_o do_v not_o translate_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o true_o or_o proper_o the_o testimony_n or_o word_n and_o revelation_n of_o god_n but_o proper_o it_o be_v a_o humane_a testimony_n you_o see_v then_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n in_o some_o sense_n be_v divine_a that_o be_v infallible_o direct_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o purpose_n although_o it_o be_v not_o divine_a in_o another_o sense_n that_o be_v her_o word_n be_v not_o the_o immediate_a voice_n of_o god_n as_o scripture_n be_v because_o she_o do_v not_o propose_v any_o new_a revelation_n make_v immediate_o to_o she_o but_o only_o infallible_o declare_v what_o revelation_n have_v be_v make_v to_o prophet_n apostle_n etc._n etc._n yourself_o affirm_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n and_o consequent_o her_o testimony_n be_v not_o mere_o humane_a and_o fallible_a and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o absolute_o divine_a and_o so_o you_o must_v answer_v your_o own_o argument_n and_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o some_o point_n may_v be_v to_o we_o a_o ground_n sufficient_a for_o our_o infallible_a assent_n or_o belief_n for_o such_o article_n and_o if_o you_o will_v tell_v we_o that_o faith_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o some_o authority_n which_o be_v absolute_o divine_a as_o divine_a signify_v that_o which_o be_v distinct_a from_o all_o thing_n create_v you_o will_v find_v yourself_o go_v too_o far_o for_o scripture_n itself_o be_v a_o thing_n create_v and_o not_o a_o god_n be_v not_o divine_a in_o that_o sense_n and_o the_o apostle_n who_o receive_v immediate_a revelation_n from_o god_n when_o afterward_o they_o do_v preach_v and_o declare_v they_o to_o other_o those_o declaration_n which_o suppose_v the_o revelation_n already_o make_v be_v not_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o many_o divines_n the_o testimony_n or_o word_n of_o god_n but_o of_o man_n infallible_o assist_v by_o god_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o hence_o infer_v that_o it_o have_v not_o be_v heresy_n to_o oppose_v the_o declaration_n of_o the_o apostle_n although_o they_o do_v not_o preach_v new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v and_o propound_v such_o as_o have_v be_v already_o make_v to_o they_o 9_o your_o word_n which_o be_v indeed_o but_o word_n that_o scripture_n 141._o scripture_n pag._n 141._o be_v of_o divine_a authority_n the_o believer_n see_v by_o that_o glorious_a beam_n of_o divine_a light_n which_o shine_v in_o scripture_n i_o confute_v heretofore_o and_o what_o great_a
credit_n of_o turk_n or_o infidel_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o assertion_n of_o bellarmine_n but_o the_o contrary_a to_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a principle_n of_o atheism_n do_v not_o you_o prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n because_o other_o wise_a man_n shall_v want_v that_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o god_n have_v appoint_v for_o our_o instruction_n direction_n &_o salvation_n now_o if_o we_o may_v have_v scripture_n and_o true_a faith_n from_o a_o false_a church_n your_o more_o zealous_a brethren_n who_o deny_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n may_v easy_o answer_v all_o your_o argument_n and_o tell_v you_o that_o a_o true_a church_n be_v not_o necessery_n for_o faith_n and_o salvation_n and_o beside_o be_v it_o not_o in_o effect_n all_o one_o to_o say_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v our_o instruction_n christ_n have_v no_o visible_a church_n &_o to_o say_v that_o we_o can_v know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n all_o the_o infallibility_n which_o we_o ascribe_v to_o the_o church_n be_v acknowledge_v to_o proceed_v from_o the_o assistance_n of_o god_n how_o can_v he_o be_v say_v not_o to_o believe_v a_o god_n who_o believe_v the_o church_n because_o she_o be_v assist_v by_o god_n remember_v that_o even_o now_o i_o tell_v you_o that_o according_a to_o your_o own_o affirmation_n the_o church_n be_v the_o ordinary_a mean_n whereby_o divine_a truth_n be_v convey_v to_o the_o understanding_n and_o yet_o you_o think_v yourself_o free_a from_o atheism_n the_o apostle_n of_o themselves_o be_v but_o mortal_a frail_a &_o subject_n to_o error_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o think_v it_o a_o principle_n of_o atheism_n to_o say_v that_o all_o our_o faith_n depend_v on_o they_o 12._o you_o tax_v we_o for_o teach_v that_o much_o of_o the_o matter_n or_o object_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n any_o way_n but_o i_o have_v already_o more_o than_o once_o say_v that_o we_o believe_v nothing_o but_o what_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n in_o some_o sort_n either_o in_o itself_o or_o from_o some_o principle_n from_o which_o it_o may_v be_v certain_o deduce_v or_o in_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o recommend_v the_o church_n &_o unwritten_a tradition_n to_o we_o as_o if_o one_o shall_v in_o his_o last_o testament_n express_v diverse_a particular_n and_o shall_v in_o the_o same_o testament_n refer_v the_o rest_n to_o some_o three_o person_n who_o be_v have_v full_o instruct_v concern_v his_o further_a will_n &_o meaning_n whatsoever_o thing_n be_v perform_v according_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o that_o three_o person_n may_v true_o be_v say_v to_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o testament_n although_o they_o may_v also_o be_v say_v not_o to_o be_v contain_v therein_o because_o they_o be_v not_o mention_v in_o particular_a and_o according_a to_o this_o explication_n canus_n and_o stapleton_n who_o you_o cite_v and_o other_o catholic_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v when_o they_o teach_v that_o we_o believe_v diverse_a thing_n not_o comprehend_v in_o scripture_n 13._o but_o you_o ask_v with_o what_o ingenuity_n 146._o ingenuity_n pag._n 146._o or_o conscience_n do_v they_o pretend_v scripture_n in_o each_o controversy_n against_o we_o since_o by_o their_o own_o confession_n many_o of_o their_o assertion_n be_v mere_a unwritten_a tradition_n lean_v only_o on_o the_o authority_n of_o their_o church_n i_o answer_v that_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v express_o contain_v in_o scripture_n yet_o not_o so_o enforce_o as_o they_o may_v not_o be_v colourable_o elude_v if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n some_o other_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n any_o other_o way_n then_o in_o the_o general_a principle_n of_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o divine_a tradition_n as_o for_o example_n that_o such_o book_n in_o particular_a be_v canonical_a writing_n some_o other_o arâ—_n comprehend_v in_o scripture_n only_o probable_o other_o be_v contain_v so_o clear_o that_o they_o may_v seem_v sufficient_o evident_a to_o a_o man_n not_o perverse_a and_o according_a to_o these_o diversity_n we_o do_v more_o or_o less_o allege_v scripture_n if_o one_o be_v dispose_v to_o use_v such_o argument_n as_o you_o bring_v i_o may_v ask_v on_o the_o other_o side_n to_o what_o purpose_n do_v you_o allege_v counsel_n father_n &_o reason_n if_o out_o of_o scripture_n alone_o you_o can_v convince_v all_o error_n against_o your_o doctrine_n may_v not_o diverse_a argument_n be_v right_o allege_v to_o prove_v the_o self_n same_o conclusion_n 14._o once_o again_o you_o return_v to_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o only_a scripture_n that_o be_v you_o return_v to_o speak_v nothing_o which_o concern_v the_o question_n in_o hand_n which_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n though_o herein_o say_v you_o as_o not_o seldom_o 14._o seldom_o 〈◊〉_d 14._o contradict_v both_o himseife_n and_o his_o fellow_n how_o consonant_a the_o writing_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v both_o to_o themselves_o and_o to_o the_o common_a doctrine_n of_o other_o catholic_a author_n this_o may_v serve_v for_o a_o sufficient_a proof_n that_o all_o his_o adversary_n can_v never_o show_v yet_o in_o all_o his_o work_n any_o one_o contradiction_n but_o such_o as_o themselves_o have_v first_o forge_v and_o then_o object_v and_o although_o in_o this_o general_a cause_n i_o do_v not_o willing_o meddle_v with_o personal_a thing_n yet_o that_o you_o may_v learn_v hereafter_o to_o speak_v with_o more_o circumspection_n but_o chief_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o a_o person_n so_o eminent_a in_o learning_n and_o dignity_n and_o yet_o more_o eminent_a in_o sanctity_n i_o will_v not_o forbear_v to_o assure_v the_o world_n and_o you_o that_o when_o some_o year_n since_o a_o perion_n of_o high_a authority_n in_o the_o world_n have_v make_v himself_o beneve_v that_o he_o have_v discover_v many_o contradiction_n in_o bellarmine_n d._n dunne_n in_o a_o conference_n that_o he_o have_v with_o a_o person_n of_o honour_n &_o worth_n from_o who_o i_o receive_v it_o though_o i_o hold_v it_o not_o fit_a here_o to_o give_v his_o name_n declare_v that_o there_o be_v no_o ground_n for_o this_o but_o that_o all_o his_o work_n be_v so_o consonant_a and_o coherent_a to_o one_o another_o as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v able_a to_o write_v they_o all_o in_o one_o hour_n space_n and_o if_o you_o d._n potter_n be_v of_o another_o opinion_n you_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o produce_v some_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a which_o may_v show_v a_o real_a contradiction_n between_o some_o passage_n and_o some_o other_o of_o his_o work_n wherein_o it_o be_v odds_o that_o you_o will_v be_v answer_v and_o he_o be_v defend_v let_v we_o see_v also_o for_o the_o present_a what_o you_o bring_v to_o make_v good_a your_o asseveration_n the_o cardinal_n say_v you_o grant_v 1â—_n grant_v bellarm._n deverb_v dei_fw-la interpret_v cap._n 10._o ad_fw-la arg_n 1â—_n that_o a_o proposition_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la unless_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n 145._o god_n pag._n 145._o reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a but_o this_o or_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a if_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n as_o this_o reason_n suppose_v than_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o to_o salve_v the_o sovereign_a power_n of_o his_o church_n he_o make_v all_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n in_o this_o syllogism_n to_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o consequence_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o conclusion_n which_o ever_o resemble_v the_o weak_a premisse_a so_o as_o if_o this_o be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o now_o how_o many_o corruption_n sleight_n and_o untruth_n be_v couch_v in_o these_o line_n let_v we_o examine_v they_o a_o little_a bellarmine_n have_v teach_v and_o prove_v at_o large_a that_o the_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a scripture_n belong_v not_o to_o private_a person_n but_o to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o be_v to_o judge_v of_o scripture_n and_o of_o all_o other_o controversy_n in_o religion_n and_o have_v make_v this_o objection_n against_o himself_o if_o our_o faith_n depend_v supra_fw-la depend_v vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o depend_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o do_v rely_v upon_o a_o most_o weak_a foundation_n he_o give_v this_o answer_n the_o word_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v of_o the_o council_n or_o pope_n when_o he_o teach_v as_o out_o of_o his_o chair_n be_v not_o mere_o the_o word_n of_o man_n that_o be_v a_o word_n subject_a to_o error_n
learned_a man_n do_v dissent_v from_o they_o be_v not_o i_o pray_v you_o these_o and_o the_o like_a tradition_n upon_o which_o your_o hierarchy_n depend_v of_o some_o consequence_n and_o worth_a your_o labour_n to_o put_v they_o in_o a_o catalogue_n or_o do_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v infallible_a true_a 23._o it_o be_v but_o a_o calumny_n to_o affirm_v that_o 163._o that_o pag._n 163._o we_o receive_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n with_o no_o less_o devotion_n than_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o you_o cite_v 169._o cite_v pag._n 169._o that_o very_a place_n of_o bellarmine_n where_o he_o 12._o he_o de_fw-fr cont._n l._n 2._o cap._n 12._o set_v down_o at_o large_a five_o singular_a prerogative_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n above_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o respect_n your_o fault_n be_v less_o excusable_a it_o be_v your_o own_o doctrine_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o all_o fundamental_o and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o even_o in_o respect_n of_o such_o point_n equal_a her_o authority_n with_o that_o of_o holy_a scripture_n 24._o at_o length_n you_o come_v to_o teach_v that_o general_n counsel_n may_v err_v even_o damnable_o and_o yet_o you_o also_o teach_v that_o their_o authority_n be_v immediate_o 162_o immediate_o pag._n 162_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o that_o their_o decree_n ibid._n decree_n ibid._n bind_v all_o person_n to_o external_a obedience_n but_o will_v you_o have_v man_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n external_o believe_v themselves_o &_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n and_o think_v that_o they_o do_v so_o by_o authority_n from_o christ_n the_o truth_n be_v that_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o church_n be_v invisible_a as_o to_o say_v that_o her_o infallibility_n consist_v not_o in_o general_n counsel_n but_o in_o this_o that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v damnable_o for_o towards_o the_o effect_n of_o instruct_v man_n in_o doubt_n concern_v faith_n all_o come_v to_o one_o effect_n and_o with_o what_o colour_n of_o truth_n do_v you_o say_v pag._n 164.165_o that_o you_o give_v general_n counsel_n much_o more_o respect_n then_o do_v most_o of_o our_o adversary_n since_o catholic_n believe_v they_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o you_o deny_v 25._o but_o you_o will_v glad_o prove_v that_o counsel_n be_v fallible_a because_o they_o be_v discursive_a in_o their_o deliberation_n and_o 167._o and_o pag._n 167._o use_v the_o weight_n &_o moment_n of_o reason_n for_o the_o draw_v out_o of_o conclusion_n from_o their_o principle_n wherein_o it_o be_v confess_v they_o may_v mistake_v 26._o it_o be_v true_a we_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n coin_n no_o new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v such_o to_o we_o as_o have_v be_v already_o deliver_v in_o the_o write_v or_o unwritten_a word_n of_o god_n to_o find_v which_o out_o she_o use_v mean_n by_o search_v out_o true_a record_n of_o antiquity_n by_o discuss_v the_o writing_n of_o father_n by_o consult_v the_o holy_a scripture_n tradition_n &c._n &c._n because_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n that_o she_o use_v such_o mean_n but_o the_o thing_n upon_o which_o she_o final_o rely_v in_o her_o definition_n ex_fw-la parte_fw-la obiecti_fw-la be_v the_o revelation_n or_o attestation_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o formal_n and_o last_o motine_n of_o faith_n and_o exparte_v subiecti_fw-la in_o behalf_n of_o herself_o she_o rely_v upon_o the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n direct_v she_o not_o to_o propound_v any_o falsehood_n instead_o of_o a_o reveal_v truth_n thus_o we_o read_v in_o the_o first_o council_n act._n 15._o cùm_fw-la magna_fw-la disquisitio_fw-la sieret_fw-la after_o great_a search_n &_o examination_n of_o the_o case_n by_o cite_v scripture_n relate_v miracle_n and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n declare_v by_o the_o good_a success_n and_o conversion_n of_o so_o many_o gentile_n the_o final_a determination_n do_v not_o rely_v upon_o these_o industry_n but_o visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o we_o which_o word_n express_v both_o the_o formal_a motive_n and_o chief_a efficient_a cause_n of_o faith_n as_o also_o the_o free_a and_o voluntary_a concur_v of_o the_o apostle_n assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o out_o of_o these_o diligence_n &_o discourse_n of_o the_o apostle_n infer_v that_o this_o council_n be_v fallible_a or_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n in_o the_o conclusion_n then_o in_o the_o argument_n themselves_o of_o which_o some_o abstract_v from_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v but_o as_o the_o divines_n speak_v argument_n of_o credibility_n and_o disposition_n to_o faith_n as_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n or_o will_v you_o perhaps_o with_o your_o first_o patriarch_n luther_n reprehend_v even_o this_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v with_o he_o that_o james_n who_o 29._o who_o in_o assert_v art_n 29._o opinion_n the_o whole_a council_n follow_v change_v the_o verdict_n of_o peter_n who_o judgement_n that_o the_o gentile_n shall_v not_o be_v constrain_v to_o observe_v the_o jewish_a ceremonic_n be_v most_o true_a &_o consequent_o the_o opinion_n of_o james_n and_o the_o council_n can_v not_o be_v true_a you_o grant_v as_o i_o must_v often_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n must_v she_o therefore_o use_v no_o industry_n to_o attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o point_n and_o protestant_n who_o hold_v scripture_n to_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n use_v mean_n of_o confer_v text_n consult_v the_o original_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n for_o attain_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o grant_v that_o your_o faith_n be_v fallible_a because_o you_o will_v say_v 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by_o the_o latter_a have_v be_v answer_v a_o hundred_o time_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o you_o have_v read_v bellarmine_n who_o 6._o who_o de_fw-fr couc_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o show_v that_o the_o second_o council_n of_o ephesus_n proceed_v unlawful_o wherein_o s._n flavianus_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n be_v murder_v by_o the_o faction_n of_o dioscorus_n and_o the_o pope_n legate_n be_v drive_v away_o and_o final_o the_o eutichian_a heresy_n be_v confirm_v for_o which_o cause_v that_o council_n be_v annul_v by_o pope_n leo._n you_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o pretty_a example_n to_o prove_v that_o lawful_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v to_o the_o word_n of_o s._n augustine_n bellarmine_n answer_v that_o primò_fw-la that_o de_fw-fr consul_n lib._n 2._o c._n 7._o §._o respondeo_fw-la primò_fw-la either_o they_o be_v understand_v of_o unlawful_a counsel_n such_o as_o be_v the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n or_o else_o they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o 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i_o have_v cite_v