Doctors of the Churche are of our side or on yours And therefore I pray thée Eusebius that thou doe pursue thine enterprise and that thou shew forth so good places that they cannot be easely plucked from thy hands as they haue done those which thou hast alreadye taken of Sainct Ambrose Eusebius If I would display and shew foorth all that that I might alleadge aswel of the new and late Doctors as of the aunâ—ient I should aswell set them a worke as Hillarius did vaunt himselfe of late to haue set mée on worke but I haue not determined to alleadge others but of the most auncientest and of those whiche are of more greater authorite in the church by the which I will plainly proue that that which we doe now in the fauour of the dead descended from the primatiue Churche and from the traditions of the Apostles For if I would bring foorth the Doctors of late dayes they would by and by reicete and despise their authoritie and woulde make none accompte of it But when I shall haue proued that the auncient Doctors of the Churche are on our side I shall by and by allow and confirme the authoritie and witnesse of the late Doctors and will more easelier stoppe their mouthes except they bée so past shame that they care leproue and condemne all the holy men and Pillers of the Church which haue shored and held it vppe in the time of the Apostles and to affirme that there are not so manye good men and so wise and learned as they are Theophilus Thou shalt not finde vs so vnreasonable Put foorth thy case afterward Iudge whether wée haue reade and vnderstanded those of whom you doe glorye so much in Thomas I haue heard thée speake friend Fusebius of Sainct Augustine namely among others and I am of an opinion that he is the chiefest by whom thou mayst better fight then by any other if thou canst finde in him a strong staffe for to defende thee and to make warre against them For I haue vnderstanded that there is none amonge al the auncient Doctors which wil serue theÌ„ better for to proue their sect then hée Wherefore I am sure that if thou canst do so much that thou canst proue that he is contrary vnto them they shall receiue a great ouerthrow and thou shalt make a great breach in their Castle For if hée so whome they haue their recourse be their enemie they shal haue others which will rise against them Eusebius But so well assured theroff as thou are certeine that it is now daye And to the end thou shouldest not thinke that there are but vaine wordes in my case I will shew vnto them the experience What do those wordes signifie which are written in his Encheridion which are also recited in y decrets and in the master of the sentences saying we must not denye that the soules of the dead are comforted thorewe the pietie and deuotion of their friends that be aliue when the sacrifice of a mediatour is offered for them or that almes is done in the Church But those thinges doe profite those who haue merited them during this lyfe to the ende that they maye afterwarde profite them For there is a certeine manner of liuing whiche is not so good but that it requireth those things after death nor so euil but that after the same they may profit him But there is in lyke manner some kinde of lyfe so good that it requireth not the same And againe some so euill that it cannot haue ayde by those thinges after that this life shal be ended And therefore hee getteth here all the merite by whiche anye maye bee reléeued or gréeued after this life Yet neuerthelesse there is none whiche hopeth to be able to merite towardes GOD when he shall bée dead whereoff hée hath not here made anye accempt This then whiche the Churche hath frequented for to prayse the dead is not contrary vnto that sentence of the Apostle which sayth wée shall all bée brought before the iudgement seat of Christ that euery man may receiue the workes of his body according to that hée hath done whether it hee good or badde For euerye one acquireth and getteth that merite when hée lyued in this bodye that those thinges maye profite him For they profite not all men And wherefore doe they not profite all men but bycause of the difference of the lyfe the whiche euerye one hathe lead in his bodye Then when the Sacryfices bée it of the Aulter or of almes déedes what soeuer they bée they are offered for all the dead whiche haue bene baptised those are giuing of thankes for those whiche haue bene verye good and propitiations for those whiche haue not bene very euill for to make God fauorable vnto them But for the moste wicked and euill although that there bée not aydes and helpes for the dead yet neuerthelesse those are certeine consolations for the lyuing But they doe profite those that they doe profite eyther to the ende that they maye haue full remission and forgiuenesse or without all â—eubt to the ende that the dampnation maye bée more tollerable and easier to beare Thomas Hath Sainct Augustine written that â—usebius Doest thou thinke mée so much a foole that would declare it otherwise I warrant you they would not let mee passe so if they might saye the contrary But I am certeine they dare not do it And though they woulde they cannot For the booke is of faith and credit Thomas Those wordes are very cléere not onely for to proue the prayers for the dead but also the sacrifice of the â—ulter Eusebius One cannot finde a thing more cléerer For it openeth so plainely all the matter perticulerly and goeth before the obiections replyings which those that do speake against it might make For it deuideth the diuers manners to liue and diuers merites of men And giueth to vnderstand that it must bée hée which woulde that such good déedes should bée profitable vnto him after hys death should be here conducted in such sorte that they may profit him that is to say that it must bée that he dye confessed and repentant And hée speaketh not onely this in this place but in manye other like amongest whiche hée addeth yet this that notwithstanding that that which we do for the dead profit not all those for whom wée doe them Yet neuerthelesse bicause we do not know to whom it profiteth we must do theÌ„ to all y we leaue none out For it is a greate deale better that those to whome it can neither profit nor hurte should haue more then they neede then to want any thing vnto those which haue neede And in the same booke he saith moreouer wee doe reade in the second booke of the Machabees that sacrifice was offred for the dead but when one readeth them not in the auncient scriptures the authoritie of the vniuersall Church is not little the which hath
the supper taken avvay from the people The Councel of Constance of Basile Transubstantiition The honourable recantation of Berengarius De con dist 2 Lgo Berengarius Mat 26. c. 27. Marc. 14. c. 22. Luc. 22. b. 19 The Conuent of Monkes Multitude of Masses for hidde De con dist 1. ca. sufficit What company ought to haue the Masse De con dist 1. ca. Hoc quoque Mat. 16. c. 27 Marc 14. c. â—2 Luc. 22. b. 19 The breaking of the hoast De con dist 2. ca. â—riform Sergius 2. Oâ— porci Plat. The names of the Popes changed Bonauent li. 4. dist 12. Hilbert in eleg de Euchaâ—istiu The memento of the quicke of the dead The sâ—pper a 〈◊〉 of reâ—â—â—tion The dispising contemning of the supper King Levves Statutes for the communion Ausegisus li. 2. Ca 38 Fabtan De con dist 2. hâ— Concilium Aga thâ—se â—libâ—â—t De cen dist 2. 〈…〉 Concil Latera The councell of Pope Innocent De pen. remiss omnis v◠〈◊〉 Albert. li. de missae myst The conslareie of the Greekes Purgatory retested of the Greekes The Counsell of Florence Scismes Antipopes Plat. in vita Eng. li. concil The Counsell of Busle Pope Martin Sigismond Emperour The Counsell of Ferrora Plague Pope Engenius A yme Duke of Sanoy Ripailles Pope Felix Purgotory receyned by the Greekes Rutenus Nicenus Beisation Rossensis The VVitnesse VVhich Saint Hâ—ereme ytueth cllus time 〈◊〉 lanua 1. 9. Aertus Hierom against Vigtlantius The opinion that Styne August in had of Pingarory Collo 2. 3. 3. Li. desâ—â—â— oper ca. 16. Addulâ—â— q. 1 in Enchir. ca 68. 69 De ciui deili 21. ca. 26. Tho. in 4. dist 21. Autho. 1. Par. 〈…〉 10. Cap 2. The doctrine of the Apostles perfect Raâ— diui off li. 7. 3. q. 7. in grauib 24. q. 1. odâ— 1. de ponderet extra de renun Nisi 5. 1. Monica Li. confess 9 câ— 11. The affection of the women that follovved Iesus Luc. 24. a. 5. Mat. 18. 2. 1. Marc. 16. b. 6. Iolus 10. â— 11. The vvitnes of Saint Augusture against purgatory of the Pope De ciui det li. 10 â— 1. 24. The true Pargatory De câ—â— Dei. li 10. ca. 22. 1. Timo. 2. â— 5. lieb 1. 2. 3. De eiui Dei. li. 13. ca. 9 De trinita li. 4 ca. 13. De ciuis Dei. li 21. ca. 13 Purgatory in this worlde Enchi â— 67. The fire dinturnall eternall Contra Pelag Hypogu li. 5 Two vvayes onely Other vvitnesses of the most auncion doctors agaynst Purgatory Ter aduer Marl. li. 4. The sieldes Ehâ—eus Abrahams bosome To affirme vncerteyne things Irene aduer ha res Valentma Recogn li. 1. The booke of Clement Purgatory is either far all or els ther is none Psa 32. The diuersltie of opinions touching the suffrages for the dead Theologia Ac. â— demâ—a 1. Timo. 1. b. 7. The certeyntie in the doctrine of the faith required The disputacioÌ„s of the babblers of diuinitie Temerine to affirme Tho. m. 4. dist 21. 〈…〉 Sinne 〈◊〉 holy Ghost Dist 19. ca. 51. Romanorum To sinne against the Pope The couâ—cell of Saint Augustin in Genes 11. 10 Mat. 24. b 24. The elect in daÅ„ger to b. seduced The reigne of 〈…〉 and he vvorking of 〈…〉 â—â—â— 59. a. 5. 2. thess. 2. b. 5 Rash determinations â—â—â—â—nations vvhat thing vve may safely he ignorant off and vvhat not Luc. â—3 s 43. Vnâ—o vvhom do â—â—perreyne the extreme appeâ—â—â—vions in causes of â—d ygloa Ordinary iudge Diuine humayne councells Mat. 18. Act. 15. b. 8. The power of the Pope Dist 34. c. ioctor Glos dist 82. ca. Hrestyter Glo. Apostolorum 17. q. 4. ca. 51. siquis dist 40. c St Papa Dist 96. c. Satis c. simplices inscriptis Dist 40. ca. Si Papa The â—oye out â—f th 〈◊〉 The vvitnesse of Antechrist agaynst his Purgatory De bapt ofsee cap. Maiores causat God pardoneth not the moyâ—ie Versus Magistrales ex glosa Larga Dâ—i pietas veniam non dimidial it Nam nil aut totum te lacrymante dabat Deut. 32. â— 4 Mar. 8. d. 29 Marc. â— c. 25 Pro. 17. d. 28 Iudgement by the vvorld Apothegma CoÌ„mon proâ—erb The incredulity of Thomas Iohn 20. â—â—â— S. Patricks wels The vvorde of God iudge and guide Aene. 6. Psa 119. c. 05. The gates of dreames The gate of Iuory horne The dreames of the Saints of the erring Theologisters The spirite of Bacchus 〈…〉 The vvorde of God iudge and guide Aene. 6. Psa 119. c. 105. The gates of dreames The gate of Iuory herne The dreames of the Saints of the eâ—ring Theologisters The spirite of Bacchus 2. Mach. 12. g. 43. The value of the thousand Dragmas The authoritie of the bookes of the Machabces Books canonical Apocripha The iudgement of saint Hierom touching the bookes of the Machabeeâ— Hiero. Pauli Ioseph y anthor of the bookes of the Machabees The bookes of Ioseph De ciui Dei. li 18. ca. 36 Martirs bescre the comming of Iesus Christ The Machabees 2. Mac. 7. a. 1 Antiochus The legends of Saints Dist 15. ca. sancta Luc. 24. g. 44. The Canons the Apostles Dsti 16. casex againta can canoner propter Dist 16. ca. â—none Glos atâ— The eâ—onicall bookes Apocrypha Vnto whom the iudgement of the scriptures do appertcine Legitimation The authoritie of the Church The authoritie of the scripture Psa 19 c 9 The seconde bookes of the Machabees The sangnage of the Prophets The last Prophets The authoritie of the Prophets and Apostles Gal. 1 b. 8 The vvstnesse of God. Ad Chroma dist 5. ca. saÌ„cta The place of the Machabees serueth nothing at all for Purgâ—â—ory Purgatory before the comming of Christ Luc. 16. c. 19. The Limbe The reason vppon which Purgatory is builded Hipocrites enuious of the grace of God Luc. 15. g. 28. Examples of the mercy of God. Luâ— 23. l. 4â— Priuiledge Saluation by priuiledge Rom. 3. 9. Payne for satisfaction The only death of Iesus Christ doth satisfie Cypr. lib. 4. de bapismo lâ— sent 4. dist 4. sunt The greatnes of the paynes of Purgatory Dist 25. ca. Apostolus Tho. 4. dist 21. aâ— 1. Ric. 4. dist 20. arg 2. Aâ—ber 7. li. com theo ca. 2. Bona. 4. dist 18 Plutar. lâ— de sera numi vind Fable of Gregory Bart. fer 4. heb 4. quadrag Ser de poen purg Fable of Theseus and Pyrothus Verg. Aene. 6. Difference bevveene the fire of purgatory of hell Ric. 4. dist 20. arg 2. Bonauâ—n 4. dist 18. Albet 7. li. com pe tha ca. 2. Thom. 4. dist 21. arg 1. 3 er q. 46. ar 6. Barl. serm de pâ—na Purg. example Anto. â— par suÌ„ Mans reason the foundacion of Purgatory The Iustice and mercy of God. Esa. 9. b. 6 Iohn 3. d. 34. Rom. 3. 24. Gala. 3. d. 2â— Punishment for sinnes Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12 Iohn 15. Gala. 3. â—â— Iohn 3. d. 36 The revvard
hath made al things for himselfe of whom all proceeded and vnto whom it muste â—t urne againe Theophilus It is very true Hillarius I demaund of thee more ouer vnto what ende doest thou thinke that all those popishe ceremonies do tende As for mée I can perceiue but that they haue taken their sight regarde to none other ende but vnto the money If there bee any which will deny it I will proue it like a good Logicioner the cause by his effects Sith then that the finall cause is the money vnto whose honoure all these lawes do referre themselues and that the same is the author I do also coÌ„clude that it is the God vnto whome all these thinges ought to be brought the which Iesus Christ calleth Mammou if you wil know his name in that Hebrewe or Siriake tongue Dr if you had rather in Greeke we will cal him Plutus whom Aristophanes magnifieth so much that he saith that there is no God so great no not lupiter hymselfe vpon which he hath not rule and dominion which is not subiect vnto him Theophilus That agréeth not euill with the witnesse of Salomon saying vnto money are all thinges obedient Hillarius If you will in like manner giue it a latine name and to make it a Goddsse you may call it Pecunia that is money as the auncient Latinists who haue made of it a Goddesse Wherevnto agréeth very well the common translation in that place which you alledged of Salomon saying vnto money are all things obedient Wherefore I am abashed of that whiche the Poet luuenal hath spoken for that men haue not made vnto it a Temple nor consecrated any Aulter sith that it is so puissant a Goddesse vnto whom is attributed the title of the Dmnipotent and altogether mightie whiche belengeth vnto God alone For it is commonly sayd Money doth althings Theophilus Sainct Augustine following the authoritie of Varro also saith that the auncients haue called that God in Latine Aesculanus because that the first money that was made was of Brasse Hillarius You may already perceiue that Plutus and Pluto were bretheren or at the least cosin Germaines sauinge that the one reigned vppon the earth and the other vnderneath the earthe Nowe forasmuche as that GOD whether you call him Mammon Plutus Pluto Aesculanus or Pecunia bée the Authoure and lawe gyuer of all those lawes by good right and reason hee maye dyspence with them And when they haue his dispensation there remayneth no more sinne as in respecte of the Pope For hee dispenseth with more greater things insomuch that hée will not suffer the vse of mariage to eate flesh and white meates but that one hadde néede to sell GOD to eate and to doe that hee woulde doc I meane the Gods that hee himselfe hathe made and of whiche his Priestes call themselues the makers whiche yet neuerthelesse are but the creatures of the Pope Do not the most greatest Cardinals whiche for suche doe acknowledge and confesse themselues Wherein there standeth a merueilous case the whiche Solin hathe forgotten when that hee made his booke of the meruaples and wounders of the worlde For that is a case the like whereoff was neuer seene that the Creator shoulde be a Creature and the Creature a Ceator as it appeareth by that that the Pope is the Creator of the Cardinals his Creatures Afterwards the Cardinals his Creatures are Creators of their Creator For they doe create and make the Pope After the same manner woulde they dce with their God whiche they make and vnmake afterwards do make him againe as they liste Theophilus For my parts I will net much reply against thy solution But I know not whether that Eusebius wil be contented And therefore I will shewe vnto him other reasons If the Pope and the Priestes doe loue somuch contynencye and chastytye as they make a shewe wherefore haue they not rather followed the counsell of Saint Paule then to sorge and make newe lawes altogether contrary both to the Aposlolicall doctrine and the lawe of God Who is hée that better knoweth man his vertue constance and continencye or his infirmitie fragilitye and incontinency then GOD who hath made and fashioned him and who hathe throughly proued him Then if God who beste did know the burthen of man that hee himselfe woulde not restraine him by lawes of continencye whiche myght haue béene an occasion of sinne and incontinencie but hée hathe ordeyned the holye mariage for a remedye the whiche hée woulde haue common vnto all estates and vnto all sorte of people whiche haue not the gyste of contynencye and that it was permitted at all tymes and seasons Then wherefore is it that those here will compell so longe time men and woemen to liue chaste and doe seperate the Spouse from the Spouses the Dusbande from the wyfe for to giue vnto them occasion to fall into whoredome And they do not the same for two or thrée dayes as the Israelites dyd when GOD woulde manyfest himselfe vnto them in the Mounte Sina They hadde good occasion to sanctifie and prepare themselues for to see and beholde that greate maiestie of God and to receiue that holye lawe that hée would giue vnto them And yet neuerthelesse Moses did not assigne vnto them but thrée dayes for to seperate themselues from their wines Abimelech required no more of Dauid and hys compaignions although that hee did giue vnto them of the halowed breade whiche was not lawefull to eate but for the Priestes of the lawe onelye And yet those thinges are not happened but for one tyme They haue not made lawes nor rules yearely or perpetuall nor common vnto all men In like manner also Ioel gaue not a prefixte day vnto the Israelites but aomonyshed and athorted them only to returne vnto the Lord and to leaue off all other things and to forget all carnall pleasures and delites for to runne vnto his mercy thorow true repentaunce infastinges prayers to the ende he may withdraw his beatings and scorgings the which hee had alreadie stretched fooâ—th euer them But he compelled no man Such erhortations and admonitions are very honest and requisite in the Churche chiefely in the times of calamities miseries when God threateneth vs with his furour Iudgement But it is more then necessarie to follow the moderation the which Sainct Paul in such case hath vsed chiefly in this time now for that the worlde is so much corrupted and depraued and somuch subiect vnto hir carnal affections The Apostle knowing mans infirmitie dursse not forbid mariage to any man of what qualitie soeuer he were off not only for a day but admonished and commauÌ„ded by Gods authoritie vnto all those who haue not the gift of continency and chastity for to reframe themselues without beeing polluted defiled neither in their bodyes or soules thorow the burning concupiscence and worke of the fleshe to mary for
to auoyde fornication whosedome and for to keepe their bodies hearts and consciences in all puritie and holines And he woulde not onely suffer that the husbande and the wife shoulde seperate themselues the one from the other ercept it be but for a small little time yea for to watche vnto fasting and prayer And vppon such condition that the seperation be not ouer long but that by and by they returne together againe least that Sathan by that meanes do finde occasion to tempte them thorow theyr incontinency and to â—istame their concupiscence And that thorow the fragilite of the fleshe the one or the other of the parties do not fall into some faulte inconuenience And the cause wherefore that holy Apostle hath written after that sort of those matters that is bicause as he saith he would not put the haulter about any mans neeke giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that those whiche forbyd or hinder the holy mariage doe put the rope aboute the necke of those vnto whome they haue forbidden and dooe put them in peryll of dampnation Wherefore I am meruaylously abashed to thincke to what ende those worshypfull prelates of the Churche haue thought in forbiddinge the mariage and espousals vnto all and for so longe time and that the stewes continued open at all tymes Doe they not well declare thereby that they doe followe the lawes and decrees of that greate whoore of Babilon the mother of fornication Eusebius Thou condempnest thy selfe by thine owne woordes For howe wyll they proue the whooredome when they require continencye and chastitie in mariage Thou regardest not that in condempninge the Prelates whiche are nowe in the Church and following thy affections thou doest also condempne the auncient doctors and counsayles For howe manye tymes haue Sainct Amborse Chrisostome Sainct Hierome Saincte Augustine and Saincte Gregory erhorted the maryed folke vnto contineneye and to absteyne from carnall woorkes in the tyme of fastynge and prayers and on the solempne feastes and chieflye vppon those dayes that wee muste goe vnto the Lordes table Theophilus Peraduenture friende Fusebius thou speakest better then thou thinckest Thou dyddest not speake altogether euill that they haue erhorted but there is greate dyfference betwéene erhortation and forbiddinge counsayle and commaundement I denye not but that they haue made such erhortations and admonitions vnto the people as the holy Apostle did vnto the Corinthians Wherein wée may followe them euen as they haue followed the Apostle who as wytnesseth Sainte Augustine hymselfe woulde not onelye suffer that the maryed persons shoulde make any seperation from the bed at no manner of tyme not for to watche vnto fastinge and prayer but thorowe the consent of the one and the other Forasmuche then as the auncient Doctors doe follow that rule wée wyll not speake gaynst them if they vse it onelye for admonytions and erhortations leauinge in such case euerye one at his lybertie wythout layinge vnto anye man bonde waight or necessitie which may induce hym to sinne and that hys infirmitye cannot beare it For euen as wée ought not to constraine and compell man vnto more greater continencie and chastity then hée may haue and that it is not lawfull for hym to vse the holye maryage which God hath gyuen vnto hym for a remedye so wee must not condempne those vnto whome GOD hath gyuen more greater gyste of continencye if they vse it to the honour of God both out of mariage and also in mariage For the honestye and continencie cannot bée too great in vs. Hillarius No truely if it bée truely wythout saynednesse and that in stéede of chastitie there bée not secrtnesse and priuinesse and that one doo not receiue the rule and the prouerbe of the Moonkes saying Si non caste tamen caute that is if not chastlye yet let it bée priuely Theophilus So dooe I vnderstande it But on the contrarye as soone as one commeth to restraine the faithfull more then God woulde and that the Apostle durste not take it in hande there is no man of so great authoritie that I can allowe For we cannot denie but that among the aunciences there were some more rigorous and contrary vnto mariage then was lawfull and chiefly Hierome who so muche praised virginitie and wydowhoode that oftentimes hée dyd iniury vnto maryage And it séemeth that hée would condempne it As it appeared in his writinges against Iouimanus and manye others Also thou canst not ercuse Gregory of superstition who sayth that the man whiche sléepeth with his owne wife ought not to enter into the Church excepte that hée bée firste washed wyth water bycause that although that the mariage be permitted of God yet neuerthelesse man may not haue the companie of his wyfe without sinninge some thing Wherefore hée hathe néede to purge hymselfe And affirmeth that that custome hathe bene of longe tyme receyued and allowed in the Romish Church Hillarius Neuerthelesse I cannot vnderstande vppon what place of the Scripture that custome hath taken his foundation except vppon the traditions of the Pharises and the washings of the Iews or Panims and vpon the doctrine of Persius saying And for to doe as I thee bid fulfill this iust request In Tiber early plunge thy head euen twise or thrise at lest And take the riuer water then and all besprinckle thee By force and vertue of the which the night shall purged bee Theophilus But when one hath grieuouslye sinned can the water purge and make him cleane I doubte not but that that superstition is yet of that which is left of the errour of those who altogether dyd condempne and forbid mariage But yet what superstition soeuer myght haue bene in some of the auncients yet neuerthelesse they forbidde not the mariage nor the espousalles vnto those whiche were not maryed in what time soeuer it were as afterwardes it was forbidden by theire successors in the counsailes of Laodocia Hilerdien and in that of Pope Martin and Nicolas who did forbyd to celebrate maryages in those times aboue lymited and dyd commaund to seperate for a time those that shoulde doe the contrary Hillarius It is but reason sith that they haue begunne the daunce and morishe to ende it altogether Syth that they haue alreadye determined and concluded that in the Dbsequies Mortuaryes Funeralles Feastes and in good deedes for the deade to followe the auncyent Romaines theire auncestors that they woulde also kéepe the other dependaunces of those feastes and religions Syth then that they woulde haue their Februales they muste haue also their Bacchanales which they celebrated at Shrouetide and that then the mariage should bée forbydden and the spouse seperated from the espouses and the husbande from hys wyfe as the Panims hadde a custome for to prepare themselues vnto the Bacchanales But there is a small dyfference in that that the Panyms dyd firste theire Lente afterwardes their Shrouetide For when they woulde consecrate themselues for
one should affirme nothing And alledgeth the sentence of Seneca sayinge Thou oughtest to affirme nothing of vncerteyne thinges but keepe thy iudgement inoerteyne Also Tertulian propounded not the same but as an aduise not as a biffinitiue sentence and an article of faith Yet neuerthelesse although that hee sayd it that sentence serueth me for to shewe vnto thee that it was no question in Tertulians tyme of Purgatorye after the manner as you haue taken it For hee putteth but one place indifferently for all the elect and children of Abraham which haue bene and shall bee vntill the latter resurrection It well appeareth that hee was of opinion that they were not yet in the celestiall habitations and chiefest felicitie but yet neuerthelesse he assigneth vnto them Abrahams bosome in which all the soules of the faythfull do rest generally without putting any difference betweene those of the auncient fathers and ours nor making mention of paine nor any Purgatory In like manner Ireneus who was next the tyme of the Apostles is not of an opinion very much contrary and differing For notwythstanding that he assigned vnto the soules of all the Disciples of Iesus Christ and the true faythfull an inuysible place whiche is appointed and determyned for them of God in which they shall continue and abyde vntyll the resurrection the which they do looke for Yet neuerthelesse hée assigned but one place for all the Christians the which hee called Disciples of Iesus Christe And bée sayth not that some shall be in paine and other some at rest but hée putteth them there vppon a condition and hée assigneth vnto all no other paine but the taryinge and looking for the resurrection saying that the Disciple is not aboue the Master and that as Iesus Christ is not by and by rysen after his death but taryed the time that was appointed him of God his Father so must hys Disciples tarye for theirs as hée hath ordeyned them It is very true that in the booke which is attributed vnto Sainct Clement it seemeth that hee woulde putte a certeyne kinde of Purgatorye but althoughe the booke were of great authoritie yet neuerthelesse it woulde serue for nothinge for the Priestes Purgatorye For althoughe that hee putteth a certeyne difference betweene the most perfectest seruaunts of God and the others whiche haue not nor could not entyrelye accomplishe the rule of ryghteousnesse but haue yet some mallice remayning in theire fleshe yet hee assigned no paine vnto those Although that hee thinketh that the others are in more greater glory but saith that their soules are kept in goodly pleasaunt and ioyfull regyons and countreys that in the resurrection of the dead when they shall haue receyued theire bodyes and that they re resolution shall bee purged they maye come vnto eternall lyfe Beholde his owne woordes the which he recited as spoken of Sainct Peter vnto Saint Clement But there is no appearaunce that Saincte Peter hath holden those woordes whiche were attributed to him in that booke nor that Sainct Clement hath wrytten them althoughe that the booke is intituled in his name For howe manye propositions be there altogether contrarye vnto the doctrine of Saincte Peter and of all the Apostles But put the case that the booke were verye auucient and of the Authour to whome they attribute it if it be not canonised nor of the Apostolicall authoritie and whiche is more he putteth no Purgatorye in whiche there is pame and torment And when thou wouldest conclude by those woordes that there should be some manner of Purgatorye I wyll vanquishe and ouercome thee by hymselfe eyther that there is none or else that it is for all men And that there is no man so holye but that he must be purged in the same For there was neuer any so iuste and righteous which hath fulfilled and perfected the rule of righteousnesse which hath bene without sinne which hath not prayed with all the Saints accordinge to the witnesse of Dauid for his unquitye and sayth pardon our sinnes and in whome one could not finde inoughe for to purge yea after this lyfe excepte he had anye other purgation then that whiche is made by the bloude of Iesus Christe But although there were none other reasons for to proue that the suffrages for the deade and the Purgatorye are found out and deuised by mans inuentions then the diuersitie of opinions of those whiche haue written and spoken of it yet the argument is verye stronge for they doe propounde the doctrine so vncerteyne that one cannot make any resolution and a greate deale lesse then of the opinions of the Philosophers but doe leaue alwayes the conscience uncerteyne agaynst the nature of the woorde of God whiche alwayes is certeine and cléere Hillarius Me thincketh that I doe sée them holde so theire pro contra that they would make of the Theology an Academia in which one may dispute probably on both sides without giuing any certeine resolution but leaue all thinges in doubt For what foundation hath all that which they doe affirme and saye but vppon fables and mans opinions The which wee may as surely deny as they to affirme them yea by more iuste reason For wee haue more Scripture for to tell them the contrary then they haue of apparaunt reasons for to proue that which they affirme for they are Doctors of which the Apostle speaketh off which doe not vnderstande that which they speake nor which they teach and affirme Theophilus If they were so modest and reasonable as the Philosophers Academians they should not bee so much to bee despysed and blamed There is no doubt but that it is required that wee bee assured in the doctrine of the fayth and religion For there can bee no fayth where there is but opinions wythout certeyne perswasion Wherefore the Theologians haue not so lawful and iust excuse as the Achademians For when the question is but of humaine and naturall thinges it is not so greate a daunger to follow the opinions of men and to abide in doubt But when it is a question of fayth and religion it must bee that the conscience bee assured the whiche it cannot bee but by the certeyne worde of god Now wee doe cleerely see that in such matters they goe not but by coniectures and presumptions and euerye one of them sayth and speaketh that which commeth in his fantasie But if they doe that but amongest themselues by manner of disputation as the Academians dyd and after the manner as sainct Augustine did put foorth the question of purgatorye without affirming it as an article of sayth wée would let them dispute as longe as they will. But behold that which is worse they woulde that theire opinions should bée receyued and allowed as oracles and reuelations descended from heauen and they pronounce and giue their sentence with more greater authoritie then if they dyd speake of the pure woord of God and do compell the
Christian people to beleeue confesse as an artycle of saith that which they haue dreamed and inuented iudgeing and condemning for hereticks all those which do speak against it in such sort that it is more daungerous to speake against withstand their decrées decretals then the commaundement of god For our Lord Iesus Christ sayth that all sinne committed by men may be pardened except the sinne and blasphemy against the holy ghost But it is written in the decroes and Canons woe do commauÌ„d that all decretall constitutions of all the Popes should boe kept in such sort that if any doe commit any thinge contrary vnto them that he doe know that pardon is denied vnto him and that he shall not haue it Hillarius I do then conclude by that Canon that sinne against the Pope is sinne against the holy ghost bicause there is no pardon We must not iest with them I will compare them to the Academians but I had a great deale rather that they were like vnto them then suche as they are Theophilus It should be a greate deale better to define nothing rashly of that whereoff they cannot be certeyne and to followe the Counsell of Sainct Augustin speaking of the riche man of whom mention is made in S. Luke It is better to doubt of secret things then to pleade of vncerteine things I doubt not but that we must vnder stand that the riche man is in moste extroeme hot paines and torments and that poore Lazarus in ioy and comfort But in what sort one ought to vnderstand that flame and fire of hell that bosome of Abraham that tongue of the ryche man that finger of poore Lazarus that thirst of torment that droppe of refressing with much a doe we can finde of those which doe séeke it with meekenes and modesty but of those which do debate of it with contention and strife many Hillariu If Sainct Auguslin had alwayes followed that whiche he teached here his doctrine would haue bene more pure and would haue spoken yet more soberly then he hath done of the suffrages for the dead sith that he had no sure nor certeine witnes in the worde of God. Theophilus Iesus Christ hath not fore spoken without cause that if it were possible the very elect shoulde boe seduced and deceiued by the false Prophets false Christs Wherefore wee ought not to meruaile although Sainct Augustâ—n and such as he was haue sometime bene ouercome But for vs we ought rather to be more confirmed in the doctrine of the Gospell seeing it fulfilled before ouâ— eyes we ought well to learne by the example of others to walke in the feare of God without straying or wandring any thing after our opinions and fantasies For if already from the time of the Apesties Antechrist did béeâ—in his raigne and worke his secret of iniquitie we muste 〈◊〉 doubt but that he was muche aduanced in the time of Sainct Augustin And the Apostle calleth not without cause his worke and busines the mistery of iniquity For he hath proceeded and gone forwarde so secretly craftely and subtilly that the most holyest and best learned haue bene ouercome vse hath of a long time hatched his Cockatrice and Basilikes eggs before hee could bee perceiued and hath practised his matters so subtilly vnder the earth that scant one could know to what ende he tendeth vntill such time as he hath ended and finished his worke and that Iesus Christ by his Gospel hath opened and reuealed it to his electe as wée doe sée by experience at this present time And as I trust shal doe yet more hereafter Wherefore we knowing into what inconueniences our fathers are fallen into yea the wisest and moste persect in attributing to much to the authoritie of men and to their opinions and traditions Let vs take heede to affirme and propound vnto the christians as an article of faith and doctrine necessary to saluation any thing of whiche wee haue no certeine witnes by the holy scripture of which by them wee are not cleerely resolued For that commeth thorow to greate temeritie and presumption the which God will not leaue vnpunished But whiche is more although the thing shoulde be very true and so as it hath bene preached vnto vs yet neuerthelesse sith that the worde of God doth not make anye expresse mention of it nor doth cléerely shew forth of whiche wee can drawe anye certeine consequence and of whiche wée haue no commaundement of GOD wee maye safelye bée ignoraunt of it without daunger of our saluation For sith that the Scripture is giuen vnto vs for our instruction not for vs to inquire of the estate of the dead but for to learne vs the way for to come vnto the place of that holy eternall rest and true felicity wée ought to content our selues to know that whiche is commaunded vs and whiche to the same is necessary for vs and wee may not bee ignoraunt of them without dammage and hurte of our saluation And therefore wée haue no néede but to holde vs to Iesus Christe and to assure our selues vpon his promises béeing certeine and sure that that whiche hée hath promised vnto that poore théefe hanging vppon the Crosse with him saying This daye shalt thou bée with mée in Paradise toucheth and concerneth euery one of vs as muche as him if we be true faithfull Behold the limittes whiche the Scripture appointeth vnto vs within which wée must dwell without tormenting our selues after the estate of the dead and Purgatory of which it maketh not mention of it one word Eusebius I know very well that although I shoulde alledge all the Doctors which haue bene sithens the death and passion of Iesus Christ vntill this present time that I shall profitte nothinge with you For when you perceiue that they are contrarye vnto your opinions you will not receiue them but when you thinke that they doe make for you But you will runile to the Scripture as the pleaders whiche haue an euill matter doe séeke and finde out all the delayes that they canne and do call alwayes from sentence to sentence what soeuer wrong it be or for to delaye theyr condempnation or vnder hope that they haue to finde out some practise or shyfte for to deceiue and ouercome theyr party and to corrupte the Iudges Wherefore I doe well perceiue that I shal be nothing with you if by the cleere and plaine texte of the Scripture I doe â—ot sloppe your mouth Theophilus If thou cansl do it theu hast gotten y victory For vnto the same doe apperteine the extreame or latter appellations And therefore it seemeth to mée that you do greater wrong then we without any comparison For we doe not put our selues out of reason nor from the ordinary of iustice sith that we doe appeale to none other then to our ordinary Iudge For what wrong to we vnto men if from them we doe appeale before
God which is the soueraigne Iudge of al creatures which hath already giué his sentence of our differences by his word and by the mouth of Iesus Christ his sonne and of all his Prophets and Apostles vnto the which we ought to stay our selues But you not beeing contented with them do appeale from God vnto men and from the counsell of the Prophets and Apostles of whom Iesus Christ is president chiefe thorow his holy spirite to the councels of men in whiche the Popes doe rule and are President who according to your doctrine haue such power and authority that they may dispence against the apostolicall doctrine the right of nature consequently against the Gospell the word of god For the Pope hath all the diuine and humaine rights in the cabin and chest of his breast that he ought to iudge euery one ought not to be iudged of any man insomuch that when he shal leade innumerable of people great companies into hell no mortal man ought here to checke and rebuke him of his faultes For he is god who cannot be iudged of men Hillarius It followeth then that if one doe see him to go to all the diuels to drawe thither all the worlde with him that none ought to saye vnto him that hee doth euill For hee that sayth it both iudgeth and rebuketh Eusebius The Canons do not deny but that he is to be rebuked if he be an hereticke that he erreth in the faith Theophilus But you do say that hee cannot erre And herefore when hee is an heretyke and out of the faithe dare we to rebuke him and his doctrine no not by our auâ—â—ority and silence but by the same of God and of all his Prophets and Apostles the whiche we do but propound yea whiche is more by that or the auncient Doctors as thou mightest haue seene and knowen if thou wouldest And if thou doe not content thyselfe with that I will shew vnto thee how that wicked Antechrist condempneth himselfe of his owne mouth and confesseth that there is no such Purgatory as he woulde establish For hee himselfe confesseth after that he is much glorified that God whiche hath saued all men knoweth no worke of imperfection And for that cause be pardoneth not sinnes in part Therefore the glose made vpon that text alledgeth two verses conteining that sentence The great goodnes of god will not pardon the halfe For when with teares wéeping thou comest vnto him hee will giue thée all or nothing Now if it were so that God reserueth one part of the sinnes for to be punished in Purgatory as you do affirme it should follow that God worketh not but halfe with his seruants the whiche none can say without blasphemy For the workes of God are perfect Wherefore if thou haue not Eusebius any better refuge in the holye Scripture then thou hast yet shewed foorth thou hast lost thy cause by the sentence of God and of all his seruants yea of Antechrist himselfe whom the vertue of God compelleth to confesse the trueth against his owne nose and inspite of his teeth as the diuels did confesse Iesus Christe feeling his power the which they could not resist Thomas Thou doest here what matters these people here haue declared vnto thee Eusebius Thou haddest almoste wonne me at the beginning of this disputation confirmed mee in thine opinion when that I heard thee propound the words of Sainct Augustin But now after that I hearde their replyings I am more vncerteine then before Wherefore I muste here the rude of that cause the last sentence the whiche is giuen by the word of god I haue determined to declare vnto you the cause of my voyage as I haue promised after that Eusebius shal haue done with you But I am content to deferre it vntill tomorrow to the ende I maye returne vnto you more resolued Wherfore I pray thée Eusebius that thou prepare thy selfe to fight with them valiantly by the sword of the word of God and that we may see the ende of that Purgatory and also of the Limbe whereof the matter hath bene broken off hath not ben followed nor resolued Yet neuerthelesse this is one pointe the which I desire almoste asmuch the resolution as of the Purgatory And to the end you may haue the more leasure to debate of the matter I will hold you no longer But bicause that it is now so late therfore me thinketh that it shal be better to take the time at our pleasure Hillarius I do like wel Thomas his counsell Theophilus I am content that we do suffer graunt vnto Eusebius all that he would haue to the ende we giue him none occasion to complaine that he hath had no time and the meane to defende his cause Eusebius Sith that it is so I doe agrée to your opinion But it is vppon such condicion whiche is of force that before that I departe from you either that you be of mine opinion or I of yours wherevppon saye a dieu farewell Vnto the Reader It seemeth vnto mee good to adde vnto thee here the sequence of those that bee dead in Latin the whiche was omitted in the margent Fol. 167. where it is translated faithfully into English meeter Oratio siue sequentia ad beatam Mariam pro defunctis Lugentibus in purgatorio Qui torrentur ardore nimio Et torquentur sine remedio Subueniat tua passio O Maria. Fonses patens quae culpas abluis Omnes sanas nullum respuis Manum tuam extende mortuis Qui sub poenis languent continuis O Maria. Ad te pia suspirant mortui Cupientes de poenis erui Et adesse tuo conspectui Et gaudis aeternis persrui O Maria. Clauis Dauid quae coelum aperis Nune beata succurre miseris Qui tormentis torquentur asperis Educ eas de domo carceris O Maria. Lex iuslorum Norma credentium Vera salus in te sperantium Pro desunctis sit tibi sludium Assidue orare silium O Maria. Benedicta per tua merita Te rogamus mortuos suscita Et dimittens corum debita Ad requiem sis eis semita O Maria. FINIS ¶ The table of the principall matters of the seconde parte of the Christian disputations A. A Bell hearing Masse 184 Abragan 154 Abstinence and seperation from women 141. Abstinence from lawfull thinges 141. Abstinence from beasts flesh 170 Abstinence from meates 171. Accidents burned 161. Accidents without substance 162. Adam prest 185. Admirasion of the water and salt 152. Adonis 150. Aduent 139. Aerius 192. Eaesculanus 143. Affection folish towards the deade 181. Affection of women that followed Iesus 193. Alleluya 150. Alexander Pope 141. 163. Alexander Natiuitie 156. Amburbales 149. Aneylia 161. Anchiles 129. Anniuersaries 128. 130 Anexagoras 123. Aunswere to the place of the 19. Chap. of Exodus 117. 144 Antipopes 190 Antiquitie of the name of Masse 183. Antiquitie of the
the Apostles the whiche some among the auncients and among the Popes and counsels haue bene holden some for Canonical and others for Apocripha bicause that they doe serue in many thinges confirmable to the Apostolicall doctirne but they were not bound vnto them as vnto the holy Scriptures whiche they cannot reiect as they haue done often times when they haue found any Canon whiche séemeth much to differ from the Apostolicall doctirne Euen so maye we do of the bookes of the Machabees We may wel draw out of them examples for to exhorte the faithfull vnto paclence constancy and Martirdome propounding and declaring vnto them the vertue and the faith of that good mother with hir seuen sonnes who stoode so constantlye vnto death for to mainteine the Lawe of Gode who had not yet neuerthelesse such an occasion to doe that as we whiche haue more sure and certeine witnesses of the resurrection and of examples more euident aswell in Iesus Christ as in his Apostles dysciples then they had And so said S. Augstyne But it followeth not therfore that touching the doctrine which concerneth the faith and religion they should be with equall authority with the others And therefore the glose made vpon the decrée recysith them among the Apocripha Eusebius I woulde gladly that thou wouldest declare vnto mée a litle more plainely what thou vnderstandest by the Canonicals and Apocripha Theophilus I doe call canonicall all the bookes of the new testament the whiche wée haue and of the doe in like manner all those whiche are conteyned in the Hebrwe Bible the which we haue receiued of the holy Prophets and true seruaunts of God and whose authors are certeine and knowen And we doe cal them Canonicall which signifieth asmuch as rules bicause they are of an infallible veritie a certeine sure rule whiche is giuen vs of god for to ruel examine al other doctrine to proue the spirites whelter they are of God and for to liue according to the same Eusebius And what vnderstandest thou by Apocripha Theophilus Apocripha signifieth a thing hid secret or obscure which hath no sure or certein author or which is not alowed as are y bokes to y title is applies made at which are not sufferable but insomuch as their doctrin is confirmable vnto that of Canonicalls the which ought to be ruled by them And they haue no firme authoritie but that which those doe giue vnto it For in steede that we may take a sure foundation and buylding vppon any place taken out of the Canonicalls we cannot doe it in those heere if they haue not alreadye their foundation on the other They haue not bene called Apocrypha bicause that it was not lawfull to haue them in ones lybrary and to reade them with iudgement for ones profite For that was not forbidden But haue taken that name bicause that they were not of such authoritie the one should holde them for a sure and infallible doctrine of the church of God And they were not red and expounded openly in the same and with such authoritie as those which without doubt were holden for the certeyne worde of God to the which we are bounde to beléeue and to submit put our iudgement vnder them not to eleuate it aboue them or to iudge them by the other bookes which ought to bée subiect vnto them Eusebius And wherefore haue some of them more that authoritie then the others Theophilus Bicause that of the one we are cert eyne which are the pure wordes of God but not of the others but to the contrary Eusebius By what meanes Is it not bicause the Churche hath allowed them and not the other Now sith that their authority dependeth of the authority of the church if shee doe receine these here as the Canonicall maketh them of equall authoritie wherefore shall not they bée in the same degree Theophilus I doe beleeue that thou doest thinke that the church hath accustomed to legittimate the bookes as the Pope doth legittimate his bastardes The Popishe church may well take in hande that but that is not the propertie of the of Iesus Christ And although she woulde legittimate them yet they must be takē as bastards legitimated by the Pope which cannot be notwithstanding borne in lawfull maryage but do abide alwayes bastards and sonnes of fornication How can the daughter engender and beget hir Mother or hir Father Howe can the Church giue authoritie to the woorde of God who of the same receyueth hirs and of the same is begotten and borne Of whome receiueth the Sunne his brightnesse Doth hée receiue it of men whome hee illuminateth and lighteth Eusebius No. But on the contrary men of it Theophilus Is it cléere and shining bicause that men doe iudge and confesse it to bée such Eusebius No. But bicause that it is such the men that doe sée it and haue the experience are constrayned to acknowledge and confesse it to bée such Theophilus Thou meanest notwithstandinge that the Sunne should bee cleere and giue light bicause that men doe thincke it to bée so Eusebius Thou doest mée wrong to impute vnto mée that which I neuer spake but altogether contrarye Theophilus Thou hast sayd it by other wordes Whereby thou doest not perceiue thy selfe For when thou saydest that the holy Scripture taketh hys authoritie of the church thou sayest that men do giue lyght and cléerenesse vnto the Sun. For as Dauid doth wytnesse the word of the Lord is pure cléere that is the light which giueth light vnto the eyes giueth wisdome vnto babes It is then certeyne and true not bycause the Church iudgeth it such but it iudgeth it such bicause that it is so and cannot iudge of it otherwyse no more then he which hath cléere eyes can iudge of the lyght of the Sunne of whiche the blinde person is not capable Wherefore hée cannot iudge no more then the Infidells and reprohate can iudge of the woorde of God nor allowe it Then thou mayst by this vnderstand that the certeynetye veritie and firmenesse doth not depende vppon mans opinion and iudgement but vppon the holy Ghost and of the proper force vertue and effectes by which it doth verifie it selfe and compelleth the faythfull heartes to allow and receiue it as the lyght of the Sunne doth the eies For the sheepe doe heare and vnderstand the shepeartes voyce but not that of the straungers And all that that the Prophetes haue forshewed and taught the Apostles in lyke manner haue bene verified and authorysed by the vertue of him which hath spoken in them insomuch that all the worlde cannot resist it Nowe wée cannot saye she lyke of the bookes of the Machabees chiefely of the seconde First for that it is not founde in the Hebrewe and that the stile of the same witnesseth cléerely that it was first made in Greeke and was not translated frō the Hebrew tongue into the Greeke tongue
We may take it for a certeyne rule that it hath not belfe written by any Prophet or man worthy to bee accompted for such a one For the Prophets haue wrytten in their proper language to wit Hebrew or in the language of the Chaldees sithence the time of the captinite of Babilon Furthermore it is easye to knowe that that booke hath bene written longe time after the retourne of the people of Israell into Hierusalem and the age of Esdras Nehemias Aggeus Zachary Malachy sithence which wée do not read that the people of God haue had any Prophet that hath written any thing nor other bookes of a certeyne and autenticke authour Wherefore by good ryght this héere is accompted for Apocrypha And although there were no other reason for to diminishe his authoritye but the excuse whiche the authour of the sayde booke made in the ende of his worke that ought to suffice thée Reade the laste Chapter and thou shalte sée it by experience If hée had béne certeyne thorowe the spiryte of GOD that all that whiche hée hath written procéeded from him as the Prophetes and Apostles haue done wherefore shoulde hée excuse himselfe both of the stile of the manner of writinge and of the faultes that he myght haue committed If hée had bene alwayes inspired with the same spirite by which the Prophets and Apostles haue spoken he would haue spoken surely and in the authority of God as those who without excusinge themselues haue sayd The Lorde hath spoken it And Sainct Paul with what authoritie speaketh hee affirming that the Gospell whiche hee hath preached was so certeyne that although an Angell came downe from heauen for to bringe anye other vnto you he ought not to bée receiued but accursed Learne then Eusebius to discerne the bookes of the holye Scripture form the others and thinke not that the church hath holden for Canonicall that seconde booke of the Machabees but as a booke which was not altogether to bée reiected and of which it might serue the Church for declaration of the Scriptures bicause of the histories conteyned in the same whiche doe giue a certeine openinge for the intelligence of the antiquitie as the histories of Ioseph doe Yet neuerthelesse if one marke them well it shall be easle to iudge that the first and the second are not all of one authour not onely by the diuersitie of the stile 〈◊〉 also bicause that in the second are reiterated some bistories and many things which already haue bene intreales â—â— in the first and a great deale better then they are in this If one doe finde in any other booke worthy to bée credited of the olde or newe Testament any like place vnto that which thou hast alledged the argument should haue some colour by the shewe that the other would giue vnto it But forasmuch as it is alone his witnesse is not sufficient as it shoulde bée in the one of the others For God is as much to bée beléeued by one onely witnesse as by a thousand where a thousand witnesses of men without the same of God ought not to bolde any place in the religion But sithence that the superstition of the suffrages prayers for the dead hath begunne to haue crept into the Churche thys booke also hath begunne to take greate authorytie in suche sorte that it oftener is reade and songe in the Popishe Churche then those that contâ—yned more surer doctrine And thu oughtest also to vnderstand that the auncients haue sometime put a difference betweene y Canonical Apocrypha Ecclesiasticall bookes as it appeareth by the authour whiche hath expounded the Creede the which some doe thinke that it was Saint Cyprian other that it was Ruffin But whosoeuer if were of them both they are both of them very auncient and haue deuyded those bookes after that sorte Yée must know saith he that thée be other bokes after the Canonicall which are not called of the auncients of our predeâ—â—â—â—ors Canonicall but Câ—â—lessasticall as are the wisdome of Salomon and the other wysedome which is called Iesus the sonne of Syrach the which booke is among the Latins by that generall tytle called Ecclessasticus by the which woorde the author of the booke is not named but the quantie of the Scripture The booke of Toby is of the same order and of Iudith and the bookes of the Machabees the which they would that they should bée all read in the Church but they would not that they should haue bene settle foorth for to conâ—â—rme the authoritie of the fayth by them The other Scriptures they haue called Apocrypha the which they woulde not that they shoulde be read in the Churche Thou 〈◊〉 sée héere most playnelye howe that they doe attribute more authoritie vnto the Canonicall Scriptures then vnto the Eccleslasticall Scriptures and vnto the Ecclessastical more then vnto the Apocryphâ— but they haue not yet neuerthelesse estéemed those Eccleslassastical which they haue many times called apocrypha of equall and such authoritie as the diuine scriptures nor they haue called them Eccleslasticall for that cause but bicause that they were in such reputation that one niyght reade and signe them in the Churche the wâ—â—â—â— was not permitted in the auncient Churche or bicause that theyr antiquitie or holynesse of their authours added vnto them a â—yttle more authoritie then vnto the other Thomas By that accompte Eusebius then shall bée vnweapened of his principall staffe that hée thought to haue Eusebius If they would after that sort make the bookes eyther Canonicall or Apocripha at they re pleasure it is méere folly to disputs with them For all those which bée not to their mindes shall be Apocrypha Theophilus If thou wilt not be confenâ—ed with the reasons by me alledged go and plead against Sainct Hierome and your decrees If the auncients had not vsed iudgemeÌ„t and wisdome how many bookes would the hereticks haue brought into the Church vnder the name of the Prophets Apostles and of their Disciples The which they haue reâ—â—csed them following that same rule which I haue giuen vnto thée as it appeareth by your decrees which are a great rolle of them But I wil yet do more to the ende I leaue theâ— not an occasion to be miscontented w me I am content by way of disputation to put the case that y booke should be autentick of a diuine authoritie And although it were so it would serue thée yet neuerthelesse nothing at all for to proue that there is a Purgaâ—ory that we must offer for the dead to such intent and in such sort as you do make it And for to declare this vnto thée more plainly I demaund of thée for to begin first ouâ— matter in what time was that made which the history conteineth was it before the coÌ„ming of our Lord Iesus Christ or afterwards Eusebius Before Theophilus Tell me moreouer was the Purgatorye in that time such as thou beléeuest it is
peace and at rest Wherefore let vs sing an other Oremus Let vs suffer them to sing that in stéede of Vigiles and of Libera me and of their Fidelium and I will make his Epitaph which shall serue him for his latter Oremus O gentle sir Iohn who of Purgatory Hast gotten so much of siluer and golde Make speedely to be known to all of the Popry To sing Requiem aeternam for his sweete soule By him an Epicures lyfe thou didst lead But now alas he is dead an hath no place And with him thy earthly kingdome is dead Sing for him then Requiescant in pace Thomas Amen Now sith that he is buryed let vs goe to Supper that he may haue also his funerall Supper and that wée may as well banket as the priests in those of the dead in the dayes of their Anniuersaries yeares minde Hillarius Let vs goe FINIS ¶ A Table of the principall matters of the thirde parte of the Christian disputacions A. ABsolution of the quick and the dead 275. Aduertisement 293. Against the Originists 272. Alexander 283. Amongst whom are reputed the soules of Purgatory 274. Anabaptists 238. Ansegisus 234 Angells dare not curse the diuells 285. Aunswere to the place of the Psalmes 263. Antechrist 276. Antiochus 215. Apocripha what it is 216. Apostles of the circumcision 257. Apothegma 211 Archesilaus 257. Argument a posteriori 279. Asshes of Pope Boniface 280. Augmentation of the felycitie to Angels 246. Authoritie of the booke of the Machabees 213. Authoritie of the Prophets Apostles 217. Authoritie of the Scripture 217. Authoritie of the church 217. B. Baptise with the holy Ghost and fire 235 Baptise two times in the yeare 239 Baptisme delayed 239. Baptisme onely of Iesus Christ 256 Baptisme of woemen 241 Baptisme of water whether it be necessary to saluation 232. Baptisme of deuotion 233. Baptisme of bloud 237. To be baptised for the dead 290 Beginning of the iudgement of God. 247. Beginning of Hell and Paradise 248. Bonauenture deified and made God. 283. Boniface the eight 280. Bookes Canonicall 216. Bookes of Thoby 262. Booke second of the Machabees 217 Bookes Canonical and Apocripha 214 Bookes of Ioseph 214 To be borne agayne of water how it is be vnderstanded 234. Bosome of Abraham 225 Boow the knee 291 Bulles doing all things 284 Bulles in Purgatory 277. Burying of Purgatory 299. Burying of the conscience 277. C. Candell before 268 Canons of the Apostles 215 Cathecismenes 237 Circumcision deferred 229 Christ the restorer of all things 247 Christ our pledge 215. Church of Lausanne 256. One onely and eternall Church 244. Charecter indebilis 276. Charles 256. Clement the sixt 283. Clockes of Purgatory 286. Comparison of the diuine and humaine doctrine 264. Comperison of the lyfe present and that to come 246. Condition of the childreÌ„ of the christioÌ„s 230. Conscience 247. Conscientia mille testes 247. Consolation in Abrams bosome 231. Contrarieties of Canons 285 Cornelius 298. Counsell of Africa 242. Creame Papisticall 276. Creators of the Creator 281. Custome of the true false doctors 266. D. Day of the Lord. 264. Dead doe bite 274. The dead how they are punished in their successours 253 Degrees of the Iudgement of god 249 Descending of Christ into hell 296. Difference betweene the Limbe Purgatory and Hell. 22â— Difference betweene the fire of Purgatory and Hell. 221. Difference betweene the olde and new Testament 244 Difference betweene the dead vnder the olde and new Testament 244 DispeÌ„sation of the tresure of the church 284 Disposition of this Dialogue 262 Diuersitie of pardons 271 Doctrine troublesome 259 Doctors scholasticall doubting of the bulls 284. Dreames of the Saints and of the rauing Theologasters 213 Dreamers or sleepers 249. E. Eccius 262. Encrease of glory in the other lyfe 245. Enâ—ant how it shall beare the iniquitie of his father 253. Error about the Sacraments 238. Error touching the Supper 234. Error of the Bohemians Morians 234. Estate of the soules after the seperation from the body 249 Eternitie temporall 272. Euangelists of the Pope 287. Example of the long dayes in Purgatory 286. Example of Iudas Machabeus 251. Example of the mercy of God. 220. Example 212. 286 Example of Fryer Roger. 277. Examples that the Saynts ought not to be all drawne into a generall consequence 243. Example of Ziphora 243. Exposition of the place of Saint Iohn ca. 3. 234. Exposition of the schoolemen vppon the plâ—ce of Saint Iohn ca. 3. 236 Exposition of the place of Thoby 262. Exposition of the place of the 1. Cor. ca. 3. 263. Exposition Allegoricall 268 Excommunicate the dead 282. Excommunicate the doctrine of the dead 285 Ex puris negatiuis nihill sequitur 271. F. Fable of Theseus and Pyrothus 221. Fable of the fayned mourning of a Laborer 300. Fable of Gregory 221. Faith of Symon 240. Fire 265. Foundation of the order of the Mendicants 287. Fryer Christopher 255. Friends of the kitchin 223. Furyed and she diuells 248. G. Gates of dreames 212 Gate of yâ—ory and of horne 213. Gentiles saued without Circumcision 229. Gerion 258. Gibellinus 280. God of Hipocrites 22â— God compared to tyrants 252. Good workes 223. Grace halfe 251. Great Lockyer 276. 2â—5 Greatnesse of the paines of Purgatory 221. Gregory the first made no mention of bulls for the dead 284. H. Halfe a sauiour 251 Hangmen of Infants 238. Harman condempned by the Pope 282 Saint Harman 282 Hell of the Origenists and Catabaptists 224. Helindius 270 Henticus 4. 282 Hercules 258. Herostratus 256. Herostratus burned the Temple of Diana 256. Herauld of righteousnesse 29â— Holy Ghost a fire 235. Holy Ghost water 235. Honour to the sacraments 2â—9 Hostensis contrary to the bulls 284. Hipocrits enuious of the grace of god 220 Hydra 258. I. Ignoraunce excuseth 〈◊〉 289. Image of death 250 Indians 235. Incredulitie of Thomas 212. Insufficiencie of the booke of the Machabees for to proue Purgatory 2â—1 〈◊〉 of saints for the dead 277. Ioseph authour of the booke of the Machabees 214. Isaac and Ismael Iubile of the Pope 283. Iubile of God. 283. Iudgement of the Scriptures to whom it apperteineth 216. Iudgement by the word 211. Iudgement of the Sodomites and Gomorrians 288. Iudgement of saint Hierome touching the bookes of the Machabees 214 Iustice and mercy of God. 222 K. Keyes of saint Peter of the Pope 276. Keyes of hell 279 Keye chaunged 276. Kindrâ—â—s of Loth. 288 L. Languages of the Prophets 217 Our Lady of Butter 241. Legends of Saints 215. Legittimation 216. Lembe 226. Lembus 226. Limbus 225. Saint Lewes canonized 282 Licence Theologicall 225 Limbe of the Infants destroyed 238. Limbe of the Infants 226. Limbe of the Fathers 244. Limbe 219. 297 Limbe what it signifieth 225. Liuing called dead 294 Ludâ— seculares 283. M. Madianiâ—s papisticall 287. Machabees 215. Man making Gods. 280. Manner to know God. 279. Marke of conscience 277 Marke of the great whore 277. Marâ—â—â—nists 242. Martirs before the comming of Iesus