contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie
compasse of this present life were not like greatly to passe for any threat which had no further Extent then the date of this World Wherefore in this respect alone it were no absurditie for our Sauiour to giue them a Cooling Card by letting them know not only that there is a World to come but also that their obstinate and wilfull Blasphemie shall bee there punished without expectation of Remission or hope of ease Nick. Sir you haue wonne the spurs the Doctor is off the hookes the nose of his Deduction is now set cleane awrie the supposed Idlenesse of the most Diuine speech is demostratiuely remoued Purgatorie hath fetch'd her last breath It is in vaine for the Doctor to froate the Key-cold Carcasse any longer If he powre in a pint of Doctor Stephens water it will not moue a joynt Me thinkes I see the Mortuarie Suffrages and moath-eaten Miracles lamenting about the coarse Kind hearts I thinke they are all agreed to k Vnica defunctas tres continet urna sorores die for companie CHAP. IIII. The Scriptures authoritie and sufficiencie warranted against prayer for the dead and other Romish Traditions Iab THat short and a Pag. 90 pithie treatise which the Knight sought to disgrace with froathie lines alleadged for Purgatorie the Custome of the Church to pray for the dead and their releefe in the Holy Sacrifice of the Altar which custome he proueth was perpetuall euen from the blessed Apostles Ma. What that Authour then carried with the precipitate motion of your superiour and irregular Spheares was inforced to write he hath now vpon his second setled and more deliberate thoughts found sufficient cause to disclaime Your confident suggesting made him somewhat too credulous in beleeuing Hauing lost his Anchor-hold he was the more easily driuen vpon those quick-sands by the violence of a swelling b Doli fabricator Epeus Floud His stayed Iudgment hath since taught him to thinke Pigmalion a foole for doting so much vpon his sencelesse feature which hath neyther breath nor life Nick. Giue Iabal leaue to licke his owne whelpe When hee hath done all he can it will proue but a deformed lumpe his apish dandling will hazard the thriuing Neuer did I see the spawne of a Crab-fish proue good Sturgeon Min. Seeing you attribute such pithinesse to a shaking reede wee are content to see you brandish your owne speare the weapons that came out of your own Armorie may happily serue best for your owne vse And though wee could wish you to make experiment of your valour in spirituall assaults yet rather then our discourse should shrinck in the wetting we are not vnwilling to heare you presse your owne arguments touching the Churches c Pag. 91 perpetuall Tradition to pray for Saints in Purgatorie in the next life Iab Saint Cyril d Pag. 91 Arch-bishop of Ierusalem liuing in Constantine the Great his time writeth of that practise in this sort When we offer vp Sacrifice wee pray for our deceased Fathers and Bishops and finally for al men departed amongst vs for we beleeue that this is a great help for the soules of them in whose behalfe wee offer that Holy and fearefull Sacrifice which is laid vpon the Altar Saint Chrisostome saith as much that it was not vnaduisedly decreed by the Apostles that in the fearefull Mysteries there should be a commemoration of the dead for they knew the dead receiued great benefite and vtilitie thereby Ma. Your Pinfold of Purgatorie is no whit the stronger for eyther of these testimonies It is not once named nor presupposed If you confesse that the Fathers Bishops and all men departed for whome they prayed were pinned vp in that Coope then is your argument of some force But seeing your Charitie dare not passe so rash a Censure their generall practise e Suffragia â—uiusmodi non prosunt animabus in vita aeterna Iniuriam facit Martyri qui orat pro Martyre Pet Ierem. Ser 25. de Suffragijs mortuorum cannot establish your particular dreame Saint Chrisostome telles you that these Sacrifices and Prayers whereof Cyril speaketh were Commemorations of the dead which you may be the better induced to beleeue because they prayed for All whereof some were Patriarches some Martyrs some Confessors and manie of them blessed Saints alreadie inuested with Celestiall glorie Saint Cyrils Sacrifice in the behalfe of these could be no other then the Sacrifice of Prayse which seeing he attributeth without distinction to all the faithfull departed alike your differenced Purgatorie-paines are not at all eased by this ancient pious and laudable practise Nick. There was a time when the Romanists also f Pet. Ieremias ibid. prayed for the Vessels in glorie in this manner Annue nobis Domine vt animae famuli tui Leonis haec prosit oblatio But being better aduised least praying for the Saints in glorie they might nullifie the presupposall of Purgatorie Indigence they haue changed it thus Annue Domine quaesumus intercessione Beati Leonis haec nobis prosit oblatio Min. It is most true that the Greeke Church prayed for the dead yet make they no mention of Purgatorie g Apol. graec pag. 119. We haue not receiued say they from our Doctors that there is anie such temporarie punishment by fire and wee know that the East Church neuer thought so Nick. Yet doth hee produce Cyril that this is a great helpe for the soules of them in whose behalfe wee offer that Holy Sacrifice Min. You shall not neede to haue this knot cut which may be so easily vntied It was then generally receiued amongest those ancient Fathers h Bart. Medin Six Senens Bibl. lib. 6. anno 344. that the soules of the Saints being receiued into an outward Court of Heauen called Abrahams bosome did not see God vntill the daie of judgement from this groundlesse Supposition proceded their mortuarie oblations whereby they were petitioners for the hastning of their remoue into the highest Heauen not for the lessening or mitigation of any scorching agonies the feare whereof the Popes pecuniarie Hobgoblinets vnder the conduct of superstitious deuotion did afterwards rayse Your argument drawne from tradition as it hath error for her originall so hath it Sophistrie for the Abettor They prayed for the Martyrs and for all the righteous from Abel and yet you saie with Cyprian Falce Martyrij omnia peccata creduntur purgata They prayed for the consummation of their glorie as i De obit Theodos Ambrose for Theodosius and Valentinian whom he had pronounced as vndoubted heires of the Heauenly Hierusalem and Augustine for his mother Monica the safetie of whose soule was not so much as questioned whereas your oblations are of another Dye being neyther Congratulations for their present joyes nor testifications of your Christian hope but imaginarie reliefes from that place which Scripture doth not specifie and from those paines which k 1. Cor. 13.67 Charitie hath no warrantise to misdoubt Nick. If they
will draw in a Purgatorie perforce in my mind they should doe better for the auoiding of partialitie to let the bodie which hath not the least part in the pleasure and fomenting of sin haue a turne or two in those flames as well as the soule Shall the terrestriall part sleepe in peace and shal the spirituall part pay so deare for the workes of the flesh This were to giue the bodie a l Pares in culpa Pares in poena priuiledge and prerogatiue aboue the soule Min. Nick You digresse I was about to craue his answer to m Art 18. pag. 86. b. Roffensis his relation who sayth that the Greekes to this day doe not beleeue there is a Purgatorie and that in their Commentaries there is verie litle or no mention thereof at all Yea the Latines saith hee did not all of them together receiue the truth of this matter but by litle and litle Whereunto Polydore also seemeth to assent Iab You n Pag. 92 omit that which you haue in your Latine Originall Quantum opinor as I now thinke or ghesse sayth that Bishop which is lesse then a new nothing to hang on your sleeue For though Roffensis at that time had such a thought not hauing then so fully perused the Graecian Fathers yet afterwardes in that verie Booke when hee commeth to speake of Purgatorie he doth affirme the contrarie in expresse tearmes Ma. He hath a verie simple Naperie who is faine to wipe his nose with a Foxes taile Did that Bishop write in such hast without perusall that hee had no leisure to giue a dash to so short a sentence in a point so materiall hauing before the finishing of his worke found the bush that could stoppe so maine a gappe Did his wisdome giue such reines to his vnruly pen to say and vnsay without a check What ancient Greeke Father doth hee nominate to contradict his former opinion Iab Whereas o Pag. 93 Luther did obiect that the Greeke Church did not beleeue Purgatorie he maketh this answer I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers of the Graecian Church for that the Graecian Fathers fauour Purgatorie the workes they left behind them doe witnesse Min. Without all question Purgatorie was greatly in their fauour when they could not so much as once vouchsafe to name it throughout their manie bookes Had they beeleued it their Charitie would haue compelled them to reueale it Your Roffensis I perceiue was then in a desperate case least Tradition shold be also wrung out of his clutches he is inforced to trie his wits and loe how gaily hee distinguisheth I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers as if they would not haue receiued it if their Doctors had deliuered it Is it not a rare Iest to search for the Records of faith inter Idiotas Could they haue beene raysed from their graues to testifie that by word of mouth which they were before vnable to write the Bishops surmise had beene more reasonable And what tokens of loue doth he bring from those Fathers to Purgatorie forsooth they mention Sacrifice and Prayer for the dead that so the soules departed being yet as they thought somewhat recluse might more speedily enjoy the beatificall vision of God as also that condigne prayse might be rendred to the Almightie by the aide of whose grace they were enabled to die in the faith Iab Whereas p Ibid. Luther obiecteth that Purgatorie could not be proued out of the Scripture Roffensis replieth that to pray for soules in Purgatorie is a most Ancient custome of the Church Nick. I promise you a wittie answere and to good purpose T is an ill Horse that can neyther wey-hey nor wagge his taile Your faction were litle beholding to him if hee would not say that it is a most ancient custome All the craft lies in the catching of this swift-wing'd proofe Could the Doctor come to lay salt vpon the taile of it we should soone haue it in our dish Min. Saint Paul who was rapt vp into the third Heauen should know as much concerning the most abstruse mysteries as the best He writing ex professo to the q 1. Thes 4. Thessalonians touching the state of the dead and prefacing his speech with Nolumus vos ignorare de dormientibus speakes not one word of this new-found Land nor of any ransome to bee payed for their enlargement who are there imprisoned Yea more he closeth that discourse with this Epilogue that hee would haue them comfort one another with these sayings which had not beene so properly or seasonably spoken were there a Purgatorie and penall satisfaction to be vndergone after this life The foolish Virgins that cried r Mat. 25.8 Date nobis de oleo vestro were non-suted with a nenō sufficiat nobis vobis So that the deceased estate of your declining Purgatorie receiuing so small a subsidiarie supply from that high sacred Court of the Apostolical Synod must be faine to stand to Roffensis his temporizing credulitie Iab You ſ Pag. 93. 94 haue the whole Armie of the Christian Church in all ages set in battaile-aray against you the blessed Apostles with pikes as I may say of Diuine authoritie standing in the forefront Ma. Indeed if Roffensis were an Apostle the Sett is yours He saith it is a most auncient custome of the Church but he falters in his euidence Iab To impeach t Pag. 91. the authority of the Church is the badge of heresie to condemne her custome is insolent madnesse Nick. This is your Ladies A.B.C. your Church is as much beholding vnto you as was Pythagoras to his Schollars In stead of Ipse dixit you will haue Ipsa dixit Iab What man u Pag. 94. 95. that hath any bit either of diuinity in his head or Christianity in his heart or Sobriety in his tongue would accuse Catholickes for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Master Why should not this Ipsa the Mother of Christians the Spousesse of the Holy Ghost this Pillar and Foundation of truth this Daughter of God the Father washed with the bloud of his Sonne that shee might in her doctrine haue no blemish of errour Why should not her word I say be more esteemed of by her children then the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Schollars Nick. I aske the banes of matrimony betweene Water and Woort Doe you think to out-swagger vs with your Rhetorique then I tell you Doctor your Romish Church is not the right subiect for those sweet attributes She is not the Mother of Christians but the Foster-dame of Heretiques Not the Spouse of the holy Ghost but the Minion of Antichrist Not the Pillar but the Poller of truth Not the Daughter of God the Father but the Bastard of Sathan Not washed in the bloud of his Sonne but polluted
that brought it Harry the Portar Idem de eodem VVHen Chance came in he seem'd to bring a prize Nick look'd and found a fardle full of Lies And when he tooke it Chance did wag his tayle Praesaging that the Groome should Iabal quaile When Dogs bring popish Libels tween their gills T is time for Groomes to exercise their quills THE CONTENTS of the seuerall Chapters of this Booke CHAP. 1. Pag. 1. THe Libellers malice fraud and folly detected CHAP. 2. Pag. 71. The Machabees vnthronized CHAP. 3. Pag. 103. Purgatories deduction Logically and Theologically disprooued CHAP. 4. Pag. 150. The Scriptures authority and sufficiency warranted against Praier for the dead and other Romish traditions CHAP. 5. Pag. 206. Lipsian Miracles morterized CHAP. 6. Pag. 246. Great Gregories proud Delegate dismounted and popish pretended deuotion vncased Dialogue Betweene the Maior of Queenboroughe Minister of Queenboroughe NICK Groome of Queenboroughe Iabal Rachil Libeller A CVRRY-COMBE for a Cox-combe CHAP. I. The Libellers malice pride fraud and folly detected Ma. WHat honest Nick Welcome into Sheppy How fares the noble Knight and all the true Trojans at home Nick. I thanke God Sir all well My Master remembers his loue to your Worship to you Master Vicar and to all his friends in these parts Min. We are much bound to him for his kinde remembrance but I wonder what winde driues you hither we may strew greene rushes for you I thinke you were neuer heere since Master Maior tooke his oath Nick. Sir you are in the right but such troublesome guests come soone enough like foule weather before they be sent for Ma. Nay say not so Nick the worst dogge in your masters house cannot come vnwelcome to Queenborough Nick. That 's more of your kindnesse then our merit but I pray you what 's the reason the bowling greene is so emptie vpon so faire a day Min. Why man there is a great Faire at Sittingburne thither they are all gone tag rag and long-taile Nick. Then I feare I am come at an ill time Ma. Why so Nick. My master hath sent me for the pyde nagge hee would haue him runne in Iames parke lest hee spoile himselfe this drie season besides I haue appointed the Smith to bee heere in the afternoone Now if the Castle-keeper bee gone to buy Hobby-horses too I am in a faire case Min. To put you out of doubt vpon my knowledge he is ridde out more then an houre and a halfe since Nick. Then it is likely to be darke night before he finde the way home Ma. Assure your selfe of that it is a forfeit for a Sheppy-man to come from a Faire till Sunne set Nick. See the ill lucke and the worst is I know not how to spend the time all this liue-long day Ma As if I haue not a good dish of Oysters and a cold pye at home to hold you tacke Nick. Many thankes good Master Maior but in very deed I brake my fast so well with our old Gardiner at Vpberry before I came out that I shall haue little mawe to any meate till night Min. Then what will you doe Nick. On my little honestie I know not vnlesse some good bodie would lende mee a Play-booke to make my worship laugh Ma. Faith Nick I doe not remember any such in my custodie but our Searcher lent me a merry book which came to his hands the last weeke Min. Sir you meane that squibbing pamphlet against Sir Edward Hoby which I borrowed of you yesterday morning Ma. The very same I would you would take the paines to fetch it Min. That labour shall be saued we neuer parted companies since we met Nick. Now if you bee kinde gentlemen let vs sit downe yonder vpon a Secretum silentium magis disputationibus conuenit ne sermo interpâ—llâ—tur a tanta vltro citroque cuntâ—um hominum frequentâ—â— sirepitu Pennylesse Bench and suruey it Ma. Agreed for I thinke wee shall haue no bodie in hast come to trouble vs. Nick. What may the title of the booke bee and who is the Author Min. He may be Nicholas nemo for ought I know he discouers himselfe only by the marke of b Conscia splendâ—ntâ—in formidat noctua solem I. R. Nick. I dare lay a good wager it is that Ishmael Rabshacheh whom my Master so hampred in his CouÌ„ter-snarle my minde giues me it is the same Gurgullio whose late arriuall makes him so much merriment Min. Not vnlike hee hath wonne the spurres for an arch-rayler The most rauing and brauing Paf-quil that euer I read Had he gotten any prize by his last worke you should haue now seene him out of his maskers sute he stands close behinde his picture if it passe currant he will then peepe out otherwise he will hide his head in a Bench-hole Ma. But is this the fashion of professed c Illi saciem velant qui se pudenda dicere cognoscunt fatentur se non dicenda dicere Laur. Val. de volupt lib. 3. Diuines to broach Positions which they dare not justifie with the subscription of their names and being namelesse themselues to perbreake persons of note Nick. Doe you wonder at that As if old purse-takers will present themselues in their owne likenes without vizards and scarfes Ma. Indeede that were the next way to the Gallowes but surely this kinde of cunning ioyned with so great scurrility which in my little view I discouered would make me shrewdly suspect their d Non sic Phidias qui clypeo Mineruae imaginem suam insculpsit sinceritie who are so intemperate in their owne affections and regardlesse of better mens credits Min. This is the Catholike charitie and soule-gaining patience practised now adayes but he is not without his shifts That he concealeth his name it is his e Page 26. humilitie as regardlesse of worldly respects That hee is so tarte it proceedeth from his zeale of the cause not any hatred of the person Ma. In my opinion he needs not feare any great applause for the extraordinary skil of his work T' is well if he scape in this learned age without reproof· But to make zeale the Patron for his f A trimme Minion one of a merry scoffing wit Frier-like Steph. Winton against G. Ioy. page 2. personall trumps is intollerable hypocrisie Min. Could he shew any such sparkes of personall disdaine flying from Saint Augustines penne there were yet some little hope that hee hath at least a dramme of that Primitiue Spirit but you shall heare how he contradicts himselfe g Preface Dedicatorie Saint Augustine saith he did endeauour to curbe the motions of anger seeking to ouercome his Aduersaries not by returne of iniurious reproaches to disgrace their persons but by cleare Demonstrations of the victorious truth Ma. Then is hee as like Saint Augustine as an Owle to an Iuie bush Nick. And could hee single out no body but my Master to make the Anuill of his malice I doubt hee hath