your cures when you are at Synodes at your Classies at Termes at Parliamentes in visiting your friendes in halfe a dozen shires The 3. Demonstration That which is from Antichrist is vnlawfull Demonstration To haue more then one is from Antichrist Ergo vnlawfull I may reason also thus euen with as great probabilitie To follow the example of S. Paul is to follow Christ Remonstrance To haue more charges to looke vnto then one is to follow S. Paul cura omnium ecclesiarum incumbit mihi I beare a care of all Churches Ergo to haue more charges then one is to folow Christ Ergo it is not simpliciter euil to haue more charges then one For none can follow two contrary masters Christ Antichrist neither is it absolutely to haue more charges then one deriued from Antichrist and therefore your Minor is false The 4. Demonstration That which declareth a minister to be more desirous of the fleece then to profit the flocke that is vnlawful But moe charges then one is so Ergo. Demonstration This fallacie is non causa pro causa Remonstrance To haue more charges then one proceedeth not from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 couetise of more but from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sufficiencie or competencie of liuing and from priuiledge fauour of the law For they that preach the Gospell must liue of the Gospel as also the Geneua note vpon these words 1. Timoth. 5.17 Qui benè praesunt presbyteri duplici honore digni sunt that is they must haue sufficiēt maintenance But that expositiō is not the only meaning of the text for double honour is something more then sufficient maintenance the proportion is double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now double is more then sufficient and honor presupposeth maintenance or els it wil be very single honor The 5. Demonstration He may not haue more charges Demonstrator vnlesse he be willing to be quartered that euery charge may haue a peece The Demonstrator is at great coste and charges to bestowe this argument Remonstrance but I take it that if euery quarter of the Citie had a quarter of him that made this Demonstration and many like to this whatsoeuer came to the H. mans part he could not boast of the least fraction vna quarta one fourth part of an honest man The 6. Demonstration or Allegation Hooper vpon the 8. commandement reckoneth them among theeues and their actions theeuerie Demonstration by that commandement His wordes are 76. pag. super 8. com Such as liue of spirituallty thes Remonstrance c. who do neglect their dutie in teaching office commit sacriledge he speaketh against vnable men or those who haue more then competency with vndesert The 2. Assertion of the Demonstrator One minister may not haue soueraigne authoritie and Lordship ouer his fellowe ministers Demonstration The Demonstrator cannot distinguish betweene soueraigntie dominion Remonstrance or entier Lordship which is one thing and superioritie or authoritie ouer others which are different things both in Church and Common-wealth The 1. Demonstration They that haue their commission indifferently giuen them without difference are equall Demonstration and not one aboue another But such is the commission of all Ministers 28. Matth. 19.20 ergo equall not one aboue another To the Maior Although par in parem non habet imperium Remonstrance touching the commission yet in other respects in comparably they may be superior one vnto another as experience daily teacheth If you were in a commission of peace c. with my Lorde Treasurer would you be his equall therefore and as good as he To the Minor There are two commissions included in 28. Matth. One as they were Apostles chiefe builders and planters of Churches in which respect they had also gouerment authoritie ouer them and such they also gaue to bishops of places as Timothie and Titus whome they so ordeined Another in that they are also Pastors and herein euery minister is their successor as bishops only in the other respect The one bringeth equalitie in the essence for the exercise of the ministerie the other an inequalitie of authoritie rule that are exercised in the Church and must be for gouernment and order An instance is the very example of the Apostles whereof some were chief pillars chiefe Apostles Iames a standing superior amongst the Apostles at Ierusalem Act. 15. 2. Cor. 12. Bishops and ministers are for their ministerie equal but for order policie of the Church in gouernment vnequal This is both Caluins and Bezaes answer The 2. Demonstration That which Christ hath directly forbidden is for euer vnlawfull Demonstration But Christ hath directly forbidden this dominion of one minister ouer an other Matth. 20.25 Luc. 22.25 Ergo To the Maior This is directly auerred for that is directly forbidden Remonstrance which by one of the 10. commandements or by some new commandement or speciall forbode is forbidden not that alwaies which in the letter of the word seemeth forbidden Els were it not lawful to sweare at al nor to cal any mā your father on earth nor to preach to the Gentiles Christ forbiddeth arrogant dominion or domination not all authoritie Absolute tyrannicall dominiō is forbidden among all christiās Aristot in his politikes maketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the dominion of Barbarians To your places the answer is Our Sauiour destroyeth not there either his owne primacie or the superioritie of the Apostles ouer other callings ecclesiasticall inferiour but rather establisheth it attempering them neuertheles to humilitie He that is great or will be great amongst you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let him be your seruant or as Luke 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that is greatest let him be as punie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the chiefest as he that serueth he doth not deuest himselfe of lawful superioritie but willeth them after his owne example to be inuested with humilitie for he himselfe did not degrade himselfe from his supremacie when by washing of their feete he serued them But because this is a matter that they do no lesse insist vpō and applaud vnto themselues in then the papists doe in their Hoc est corpus meum I wil craue leaue that I may a litle dilate hereupon further then that breuitie requireth which I first propounded to my self In those two places of S. Mathew S. Luke are to be cōsidered both what Christ reprooued also the general doctrine which by that occasion he deliuered If both the stories be to be vnderstood of one action then must we interprete that the contention of all the Apostles who of them should be the greatest mentioned by Luke had his original occasion of the request of Zebedees children at which the other Apostles tooke indignation as Mathew testifieth both they and all the Apostles dreamed of an earthly kingdom of Christes and therefore to sit at his right hand and at his
left and to be the greatest was an honour and ciuil preheminence and authoritie next vnto Christ in such his kingdome that they shot at He reprooued therefore this erroneous conceit and for thinking that ciuil iurisdiction should appertaine to them as they were apostles and drew them to another consideration of his heauenly kingdome If they desired that to be giuen them to haue the very condition state of their persons so aduanced with earthly honor authoritie ciuil in regard of some speciall affection which each of thē seuerally supposed Christ did beare vnto him in this respect was it their ambition the was reprooued But if ech of thē thoght such an honor due to himself by reasō of some excellēt qualities aboue others which he fansied to be in himself then was their arrogancie and want of humilitie withall rebuked And lastly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the brawle contention that all the apostles burst foorth into about this matter was by our Sauiour taxed and blamed Now the BB. in this church of England do not claime any ciuil iurisdiction or authoritie to be incident to their callings although if as citizens of the common weale subiects some such be imposed vpon them by the prince as they may not lawfully refuse so we know they may lawdablie vse it But if either erroneously any of them should thinke ciuil iurisdiction of or vnder earthly princes to belong vnto them as successors of the apostles or if they seeke after any authoritie whatsoeuer ambitiously arrogantly or contentiously such should iustly incurre our Sauiors censure and reproofe in this place In that by the law and customes of the land they haue the title of lordes this is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simplie in it selfe in regard of their bishoprikes but by reason of the Baronries which are annexed of old vnto those dignities yet it is but a mere title of external honor as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the Gręcians Dominus with the Latins without any authoritie or iurisdiction annexed For there is neuer a lord in the land either of the ecclesiastical or ciuill state that hath any iote of authoritie or iurisdiction in him as he is a Baron Neuertheles the apostles and BB. their successors are not therfore without all rule superioritie for they are termed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouerseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gouernements or gouernors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men set ouer others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rulers guides or directers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 feeders rulers which they cannot be except they haue some rule gouernment authoritie But this rule and authoritie is but ecclesiasticall whereas that which was affected by the apostles was ciuill which ecclesiastical authoritie whether it be wholy or in part condemned by that generall doctrine there deliuered by our Sauior doth now rest to be considered We are therfore in these words Vos autē non sic it shal not be so amongst you to note these two things viz. vnto whom such prohibition reacheth what rule it is which is there forbidden First it was not spoken to the apostles as they represented the whole Church as may appeare by the example the Christ propoundeth to thē of his own abasing of himself Neither was it forbiddē so to euerie one of them seuerallie as if it might haue bene permitted to them all together or to the greater part of them Quia nihil est in composito quod non est in simplicibus vel actu vel saltem habitudine If no one of thē might exercise such rule nor any part of it thē cannot they altogether haue it neither yet was the prohibition personall to them for then it would follow that albeit no one of them might haue authoritie ouer the rest yet their successours neuerthelesse whether more properly taken as bishops or generally as all ministers of the word might haue had such authoritie as is there forbidden which were absurd to imagine so that the prohibition reacheth to thē all to euery one of them to their successours also The whole difficultie therfore now resteth in this what kind of authoritie or rule either ecclesiastical or ciuil it is which vnder the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is forbidden And because there are many resemblāces between ecclesiastical ciuil authoritie the exact laying foorth of ciuil authoritie serueth aptly for the vnderstanding of the other I wil distribute ciuil or temperal authoritie into his parts differēces according to Arist other Politiciās Authoritie ciuil or temporal as we speake is either oeconomical such as is exercised within the limits of one family or Politicall ouer greater societies Oeconomicall is either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the husband ouer the wife being the most moderate Or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the authoritie of the father ouer the children being more ample or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is of two sortes either of the housholder ouer such of his houshold as bee of condition free men and is lesse milde then the other two or of the Lord ouer his bondmen and villaines which is most seuere and absolute of all the others Politicall authoritie is either supreme that is Soueraigne or els subordinate and delegated Soueraigne or supreme is either Absolute called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is of two sortes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Seigneuriall such as the good Emperors of Rome had and vsed who though they had all authoritie in thē without restraint so that their word was a law yet did they vse it according to the rules of ciuill honestie iustice or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tyrannous where not onely their will is a law but they also vse it contrary to all rules of ciuill honestie or iustice as the Empire of the Turkes Russes and other Barbarians or limited by certaine boundes of lawes That which is Soueraigne and yet limited is also of two kindes either wholy limited by lawes as is the authoritie of ordinarie chiefe magistrates in all free common weales as the dukes of Venice c. or restrained but in part as for the most part in all monarchies and kingdoms For albeit kings and such soueraigne Monarches are so tied to lawes as that they cannot dispose of their subiects liues or liuelihood and goods contrary to them yet are they at libertie to allowe or disallow lawes to be made to enhance or decrie the price or standerd of their coines to pardon offenders condemned by law and to make warre or peace truce or league Those which haue subordinate or delegated authoritie by the supreme magistrate they may not claime nor exercise more then is allowed vnto thē either by commissiō or by law Of all these authorities there is none as I take it simply vnlawfull but the tyrannicall gouernment which maketh self-wil a law And therefore this both here and also by other places
as they chuse their Presidents And we do not hold Caluin or any humane authoritie affirmatiue and therefore we rather defend it was for order Superioritie both of dignitie office Eusebius whom Caluin citeth to this purpose maketh Iames the sonne of Alpheus Byshop of Ierusalem and Byshop of the Apostles because the Synode of the twelue Disciples and 72. Euangelists continued from Christ his ascencion to the dispersion of the Apostles It must needes be amongst the Apostles and other Pastorall Elders not onely a gouernment for continuance of order but also preeminence in the action Act. 15.19 For there the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I iudge or determine is vsed whereupon after much disputation all rested and the matter was concluded for it is no preiudice to the equalitie of the Apostleship or ministerie a modest orderly and temperate authoritie This is worth the whole It was of order say they not of Superioritie as the speaker in Parliament as if all Superioritie were opposite to good order but as neere as they can they will borrow from the high Court of Parliament Belike they meane one day to keepe a Court of it Retortion The Speaker doeth not gather the voyces neither hath voice but when all the house is euen The L. Chanceller in the vpper house asketh the Clarke gathereth but the L. Chanceller remaineth the propounder so long as he is Chanceller And this their temporarie Presidencie is for order say they nay it is for disorder ordo est rationis Aristotle in his physicks To choose one this day another to morow and the third day choose a neewe is a tumultuous order Note this by the way Their gouernour or president of order in euery meeting is to propound matters to gather voyces viua voce or by scrutinie Ergo some authoritie is left vnto him for he is to propounde Ergo it is in his choyse to gather or scatter to silence or propound Ethicorum 3. eadem quae agere possumus non agere which is as much in valewe as a Warden amongst his schollers with a negatiue voyce which is a great preeminence and Superioritie The 6. Obiection Paul was Superiour to Timothie and Titus Demonstrator The Answere Paul and they had diuerse offices Paul an Apostle and they Euangelists ouer others Let him shewe me a reason Remonstrance with reply An Apostle being Superiour to an Euangelist and he to a Pastor c. why a Byshop may not be Superiour to a Pastor succeeding the Apostles for if vos autem non sic doe take away all Superioritie then an Apostle and euery Pastor is euery way equal a Pastor but equal with their lay Elder and Deacon As for Paul Doctor Gentium a Doctor of the Gentiles he was their Superiour this is beyond all question As for Titus and Timothie if as you say they were Superiors as Euangelists Ergo euery way Superior for Ecclesiasticall order ouer ordinarie Ministers It is an Absurditie to say Absurditie of the Demonstrator hee was Superior as an Euangelist Ergo not Superior as a Byshop sith hee that desireth a Byshopricke praeclarum opus desiderat desireth a good worke Paul sayth that Timothie worketh the worke of the Lord euen as he 1. Cor. 16. But hence followeth not that he was an Apostle euen as Paul was no more then hereof that hee was an Euangelist Or as well to make the holy Ghost say Episcopatum eius accipiat alter Let another take the Byshopricke of Iudas but let no man take the Apostleship of Iudas The fallacie of this is the caption adidem Our positiue learning is better then your negatiue learning they were Euangelists in some maner signification as Preachers but no such Euangelists as a seuerall office Ephes 4. as you imagine of them for by their owne authoritie they did not plant Churches but by commission and teaching of Saint Paul The one Timothie being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Prelate of the Ephesians 1. Thes 5.12 1. Tim. 3.14 Ephesus Metropoliticall citie of Asia where after his abode which Saint Paul requested of him for to stay no where you can finde Saint Paul afterward to sende for him especially from the date of writing the Epistle The other Titus being Archbyshop of Crete whether in that time or after times Crete were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Homer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iliad reporteth hauing three or an hundreth cities be it for ordeining or gouerning the one the other had Superioritie of all the Pastors there Iustin Martir one of the next writers to the Apostles calleth Timothie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gouernour or Prelate of the Church of Ephesus which he could not call him if hee had bin chosen for one onely meeting or action This worde in Plato 7. Epist. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is Prefect of a city therefore al his Superioritie was not so much of order as of greatnes in authoritie and the Church from time to time hath admitted the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordeined by imposition of hands first or chiefe Byshop not so much for time as dignitie for he had to denounce and commaund 1. Tim. 1.4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is with power denounce and commaunde with many other wordes in that Epistle importing his Iudiciall authoritie and Superiour dignitie The 3. Proposition of the Demonstrator None may be ordeined to an office in the Church vntill the place be voyde Demonstrator The 1. Demonstration As was the twelfth place for Matthias so is a certaine place for euery Church officer But Matthias was not ordeined to the place til Iudas had made it voyde by hanging himselfe Ergo none is to bee ordeined before the place bee voyde Adde vnto this conclusion which you ought to do Remonstrance by hanging himselfe or by lot Or when an Apostleship falleth or when euery twelfth place is voyde by such maner of Resignation Absurditie of the Demonstrator as hanging himselfe or when Matthias commeth againe to bee chosen in Iudas place This Argument leapeth from one praedicament to another from the praedicament agere to vbi He ordeined him to an office Ergo to a place and a certaine place as if the Apostles were not to preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all the world The Maior proposition is false For Christ appointed the number of twelue such as had bin conuersant with him so that there might of the Apostles be no lesse or more albeit he had 72. Disciples besides that had bin instructed by him which were Euāgelists but there is no set number of ordinarie Ministers prescribed to any nation which it may not come short of nor exceede In one Church of Antioche Ast. 13. was there not sundry both Prophets and Doctors there named yet no stinted number for it is there noted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as happely the Church then stood and it stoode very flourishing
taketh vpon him to preach is a preacher nay according to the first Demonstration and others of this chapter and his interpretation of it none be The hauing a Reader debarreth not from seeking to a Preacher and therefore it is better to haue readers then none at all As for parrat Preachers it is better to haue a discreete Reader then one of them who are bolde and hambolde to speake but speake not to the purpose or else speake schismatically and therefore are turned out The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator It is impossible to haue preachers euery where Demonstration ergo readers Answere of the Demonstrator This is a disgrace to say it is impossible and yet to say all is well and to violate the Lordes decree He that is challenged so to say by you Remonstrance with reply saith it is not possible as the state is nowe to haue such supplie in euery free chappell or place of seruice of a preacher there is some difficultie in compassing of this But to depraue other mens word is your speciall grace as for breaking Gods decree you must better proue it then you haue or else neuer say that the parte of a ministers dutie to reade in the Church to be thus vnlawfull In the feare of God be it spoken we will thanke God for our freedome both to reade Gods word and preach and pray for her Maiesties gratious continuance for so much quantitie of dominion no such plenteous preaching is in all the world as in her Maiesties dominion God increase the number of learned and well aduised preachers The 4. Obiection of the Demonstrator It were vncharitablenes to turne bare Readers out Demonstration for they their wiues and children should begge Answere of the Demonstrator Better 3. or 4. begge then damnation of 1000. Yea it were iniustice and impietie to turne them away Remonstrance with replie because they cannot preach for they can exhort and teache and minister the sacraments no such feare of damnation of a 1000. But it is your preiudice and condemnation to auouch that by their ministerie God cannot saue soules I doubt not but much better by sundrie mens labours being but simple in learning then by the most of that crue their vaine verball babling which with griefe of heart I knowe the most of your humour to vse in sermons for set aside a fewe resonant ill applied wordes culled together to astonish the simple a litle for that time what order what learning or any thing else tending to the building of the inward man in spirituall knowledge is to be founde in most of their speakings or exercises So that I see no difference betwixt such vnlearned talkers and the ignorant ministers whome with great disdaine they terme neuer better then Dumbe dogges but that these because they cannot preach will not and therefore are lesse impudent the other in truth cannot barke but yet will be bolde to be balling though it be but against the Moone or with running riot How much different is S. Hieroms iudgement from yours he saith thus It is a fault in some Bishops Hierom. 〈…〉 19. 〈…〉 that chuse not into the Clergie those who be the best but who talke the best non meliores sed argutiores and thinke simple and harmelesse men to be vnliable for the ministerie The 2. Assertion of the Demonstrator That the Church ought not to be gouerned by Commissaries Officials Demonstration and Chancellors The 1. Demonstration They who are no elders ought not to haue any thing to doe in the gouernment of the Church 1. Tim. 5.17 Those Chancellors Commissaries Officials are no elders whether you take elder for a minister or assistant ergo To the Maior The Maior proposition is intricated both with schisme vntruth Remonstrance and treason For the Queenes Maiestie is no elder no minister no priest and yet hath and ought to haue the gouernment of the Church whereas such elders as you meane haue nothing at all to doe in the Church either by precept or president The conuersion is false which the Demonstrator would haue gathered Elders gouerne well ergo they that are no Elders doe not gouerne others may gouerne in the actions of the Church who are no pastorall elders which is the answere to your Minor For Chancellors Commissaries Officials they are assistant to the pastorall elders or doe gouerne in foro litigioso and yet many of them also pastorall elders and ministers It is a loude lie to say none of them are ministers Well the griefe is that euery minister may not gouerne and rule without checke of all superiors not onely bishops or their substitutes but any other This is a wise Demonstration which is a paralogisme consisting all of negatiues and is like to this viz. No bishoply authoritie is lawfull none eldership is a bishoply authoritie ergo none eldership is lawfull The 2. Demonstration They who must gouerne the Church Demonstra must haue a warrant for so doing from Christ But the Chancellors c. haue no warrant from Christ ergo The Maior is false if you meane immediately from Christ Remonstr or especially and positiuely warranted otherwise then as all superiour power is of God It is sufficient to be warranted from the Christian Magistrate those who occupie the place of the Apostles else a Maior Sherife and Constable Iustice of peace and maister of an Hospitall should haue an vnlawfull authoritie For a man may no more deale without lawfull warrant in the Common-wealth then he may doe in the externall gouernment of the Church To the Minor Their warrant is out of the worde of God He that gouerneth in diligence Rom. 12. The bishops and others make them partakers of their authoritie by way of delegation and substitution which in Church and Common-wealth is both lawfull for not onely by the equitie but by examples of Scriptures and practise of the Primitiue Church substitution may be approoued lawfull The 3. Demonstration They whose names Demonstration offices and practise be deriued from Antichrist may not gouerne the Church of Christ for who will suffer his wife to be gouerned by the maister of a Brothell house but so are the names c. of our Chancellors because they are grounded in the filthie dunghill of the Canon lawe ergo To the Maior The Maior is of infinite distance from the Minor Remonstrance I answere to the Minor The name of Chancellor is not founde in all the Canon Lawe in that sence it is vsed but in the Ciuill Lawe of the Romanes is vsed for any chiefe assistant sitting intra eosdem tribunalis cancellos cum Magistratu as I haue learned of those who be skilfull and is not repugnant vnto but may be said to be deriued out of Gods lawe if the deriuation be drawne à cancellis to keepe vnbrideled or inordinate men intra cancellos within their boundes So the name of Commissaries by reason of commission or matter of
is simply forbidden to all Christians both in ciuill ecclesiastical gouernment Now to apply these more neerely by the authoritie the bishops haue in this realme a matter so impugned by these men It cannot be resembled vnto oeconomicall albeit in some sence a bishop is called the father of those in his charge and the husband of that church whereof he is bishop that for two causes First in that his authoritie is not contained in the straites of one familie but reacheth ouer many seuerall families and congregations of people Another for that the bishops authoritie is tied by lawes not only what not to do but he is appointed also what to doe whereas oeconomicall authoritie hath no publike lawes positiue commaunding a man howe to gouerne his familie but onely negatiue what they may not doe in that gouernment as not to wound nor kill wife childe nor seruant c. As for supreme authoritie whether Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall absolute or limited our bishops neither haue nor claime It is that which they cōdemne in the Pope by this place as well for that as successor of the Apostles he claimeth both swordes all earthly kingdomes to be his to dispose sinon actu saltem habitu as Bellarmin distinguisheth as for that in matters Ecclesiasticall he claimeth and vsurpeth not onely Seigneuriall but euen tyrannicall authoritie For he saith he may iudge all and be iudged by none may carry millions of soules to hell and none may say to him Domine curita facis Sir why doe you so may command Angels to carry and recarry soules at his pleasure may pardon sinnes past to come for so long or short a time as him listeth and in matters of Ecclesiastical liuings nay in all causes may doe what he list and therefore is iustly condemned by this place as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one exercising a Lordly absolute and tyrannous authoritie There resteth then vnto bishops of this Realme none other but subordinate or delegated authoritie which they haue partly from God partly from the soueraigne christian Magistrate From God they haue either first to plant or else to gouerne and direct Churches already planted to ordeine ministers and deacons and likewise the vse of the keies either by loosing the penitent according to Gods worde or binding the impenitent which last is done by admonition reprehension suspension excōmunication and by anathematisme The three first of which censures are with vs euen in practise common to all ministers of the word so farre as suspension is taken for debarring from the sacramēt of the supper The last two though by all practise of antiquitie in purer times they were principally and especially attributed to bishops yet not so but that other ministers of the worde vnto which the keies are annexed may not vnlawfully herein concurre with them if the lawes of the Church for weightie causes doe not otherwise dispose which they haue done here in England as I take it by reason of the sundrie ciuill effects which excommunication and anathematisme by lawe doe worke and are such as without great inconuenience and confusion cannot be permitted to euery minister in his cure that haue but slender skil no direction of lawe in this behalfe none autentique seales to certifie of record nor temporalities to be seised for not performance of the Queenes writtes that lie in such cases as de cautione admittenda de excommunicato deliberando c. And these former be the pointes wherein bishops authoritie is from God and not of man but now from the soueraigne Prince by the mediating of lawes bishops haue set downe vnto them the places where the compasse of territorie howe farre the manner howe with other circumstances of executing both the former authorities and also their iurisdiction Likewise they haue assistance of their iurisdiction sundrie waies from the Prince and lawes for the sounder execution thereof and better bridling of offenders as to burne an Heretike to imprison a person obstinately remaining excommunicate aboue 40. daies with such like Lastly they haue the heads and matters wherein their iurisdiction is occupied by and from the Christian Magistrates authoritie in whome as supreme Gouernour all iurisdiction within her dominions aswell Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill by Gods and mans lawe is inuested Such matters in this Church of England so attributed to bishops are causes of titles of benefices matters of maintenance for Ministers vpholding of Churches and Churchyardes of matrimoniall contracts and diuorces testamentarie diffamatorie where there is breach of charitie and none action lieth thereupon at the Common lawe or lastly punishing of sundrie crimes termed Ecclesiasticall being such as are not at all punishable at the Common law or els are left by lawe to be punished by either authoritie And in this respect may this part of bishoply function not vntruely be saide to be deriued from the supreme Christian Magistrates authoritie and supremacie which they haue vnder God By which may appeare both the vndutifulnes of Popish Bishops and of the factious Consistorials the first whereof deriueth their iurisdictions Ecclesiasticall within all Christian kingdomes from the Pope and the other will needes deriue theirs immediately from God and that in larger manner and in moe matters then bishops in England may any way exercise for they of the faction attribute therein no more vnto soueraigne Princes but to be gouerned in that behalfe by them and to defende the exercise thereof by their temporall sworde whereas our bishops cannot make any newe Ecclesiasticall decrees without the Princes authoritie both precedent and subsequent and in the whole course of their function are tied strictly and precisely to obseruation of due course of lawe which if either negligently or wilfully they shall violate it is remediable by appellation the last resorte wherein is to the Soueraigne Prince her selfe who heareth and finally determineth it by her Iudges delegated So that by this discourse it plainely appeareth that our Bishops neyther clayme nor yet exercise any ciuill authoritie at all as Bishops that their authoritie Ecclesiasticall is but subordinate vnder God and the Prince moderated exactly both positiuely and priuatiuely by good lawes deriued for the moste parte from the Prince and reformable by her Not supreme not absolute not tyrannicall not Seigneuriall nor Lordely according to the Rulers luste And therefore no way touched or meant much lesse by these places condemned as the Demonstrators Assumption more boldely then eyther skillfully or truely importeth But out of these groundes thus wee reason and bende the nose of the Cannon against themselues If the bishops authoritie be condemned by these two places as they would inferre then is all greater and more absolute authoritie exercised by persons Ecclesiasticall much more to be condemned But your selues doe claime and exercise greater and more absolute authoritie then the bishops namely to haue your Consistoriall iurisdiction not deriued from the Princes authoritie but supreme vnder God and that in all
causes of doctrine or manners so farre as appertaineth to conscience to make lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall without her knowledge or consent to sitte and determine as your selues iudge best without any guiding of lawes to haue your sentences once giueÌ„ to stand in force though they be appealed from vntil they be in the last instaÌ„ce reuersed to excommunicate your Soueraigne consequently to discharge your selues for that time of all actuall obedience to call your Synodes and Classies without her writte and to haue the last appellation not to runne vnto the Prince but vnto a nationall Synode All which being true notes of soueraigntie in iurisdiction are at least 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lordly or Seigneuriall if not tyrannicall ergo that which is by you claimed and exercised is in deede by Christ there condemned Neither is it the bare ciuill title of Lorde which is giuen to bishops without any authoritie in that respect that will helpe you against vs here for the Scripture giueth not lawes to wordes but to the matters themselues Yours is Lordlines in deed when you both practise these things against her Maiesties royall supremacie and will haue her to throwe her scepter downe and to licke the dust of the feete of your Church viz. your Presbyterie an epitome or representation of euery seuerall Congregation or Church The 3. Demonstration They that may not be Lords ouer Gods people much lesse may be Lordes ouer the ministers Demonstration who are aboue the people but the first is true ergo the second To the Maior The Maior with a litle more helpe will make themselues Lordes Remonstrance For I doe assure you this no Bishop is Lord ouer the people but a Lorde in respect of his owne Baronrie It is more to be aboue the people in deede then to be a Lord vnto the people in phrase of speech or obsequious worde Nowe forsooth the Ministers are aboue the people that is their betters and in authoritie ouer them as this Maior doth import To the Minor Lordlines is one thing in malam partem Lordship is another S. Peter say you forbiddeth it 1. Pet. 5.3 on whome you say we father Lordlines to be Lordes of Gods heritage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nay Peter writeth to the bishops or gouerning pastorall Elders such as himselfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I a fellowe elder not to tyrannize ouer the flocke but to be example to the faithfull The place of Peter and your collection maketh against your selues Retortion To say ministers may haue dominion ouer the people but Ministers may not haue dominion ouer ministers that is Ministers may rule and not be ruled The drift of the place is Ministers may not tyrannize or haue absolute commaund ouer the people or ouer one another I referre me to the answere made to the second demonstration of this matter The 4. Allegation or Demonstration It is ordeined that euery mans fault must be heard Demonstra Cypr. lib. 1. epi. 3. Remonstrance where the accusers and witnesses are ergo euery Minister had authoritie ouer his flocke The Illatiue is ergo euery bishop hath his limited proper iurisdiction Cyprian complained thus Paucis desperatis minor videtur esse authoritas episcoporum in Africa Certaine desperat companions thought worse of the bishops authoritie in Afrike then else where He founde fault with those that went to Rome out of the prouince not for going out of the Parish with the cause as you insinuate The 5. Allegation Bishops in all the worlde are equall to Parish ministers Demonstrat Luth. aduer Papat à Satana fundat Remonstrance some are of better giftes which giftes cause no Lordship Luther confuteth the supremacie of the bishop of Rome Papam non esse caput christianitatis Dominum mundi And that all bishops whether of Eugub or Rome Rheg or Constantinople Alexand Tauis are equall for the ministerie and heires of the See Apostolike The 6. Allegation The Ministers in the Apostolike Church none aboue other Demonstrat Muscu â—e com de verbi minist were subiect to no Head nor President That is no vniuersall Head otherwise Musculus vpon the 20. Remonstrance of Matth. alloweth Gouernors Presidents Rulers in the church The 7. Allegation A Bishop taking the honour from the Ministers Demonstra Idem super 2. Thess 8.2 was the first steppe to Papacie That is translated from them to erect a newe Ministerie Remonstrance or an illimitable authoritie in the Church which a bishoprike vnder the Gospell is not neither of the 7. steppes to Papacie The 8. Allegation Christ did forbid the Apostles primacie and dominion Demonstraet Confess Holuet That is absolute worldly auaritious ambiti ous dominion Remonstrance not all moderate gouernment and authoritie whatsoeuer Remonstrance The 9. Allegation Equall power is giuen to all Ministers sauing for order Demonstrat Confe Hel. c. 18. Order includeth superioritie and excludeth not dignitie Remonstr Nullus dominium in episcopos vsurpauit The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator Christ 20. Demonstration Matth. 25. v. forbiddeth ambition and not dominion as Musculus doth expound Answere of the Demonstrator Caluine and others expounde it against superioritie but admitte that dominion is ambition because it causeth a man to aspire aboue his fellowe Ministers There is no witte in this misshapen answere Remonstrance with reply the obiection doth not permit so much vnto you dominion in the better part taken for rule is most contrarying to ambition It must be vniust dominion that causeth ambition as to conspire against his superior and to aspire to an higher place or seate your factious study may be called ambition The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator The Greeke worde signifieth rule with oppression Demonstration which is forbidden Answere of the Demonstrator That is not so Luke 22.25 v. vseth the single verbe to rule the sonnes of Zebedee desired not to oppresse but to rule It is certaine Remonstrance with reply one place must expounde the other the tenor of the text expoundeth all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is one and consignificant termes which is absolutely tyrannously or ambitiously to gouerne and rule or violently to rule and ouerrule or else an absurd interpretation will follow of the word 19. Act. 16. v. 19. Act. 16. v. The man in whome the ill spirite was ranne vpon the vagabond Iewes and ouercame them and preuailed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had violent dominion and maisterie ouer them or 1. Pet. 5.3 v. not as exercising a proude dominion ouer the Lordes heritage If the worde signifie not so S. Peter should forewarne them of that which yourselues say is no fault therefore it is as cleare as noone day the children of Zebedee and the Apostles were schooled for that same 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 contentious and ambitious desire of ruling and that ciuilly and absolutely The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator
answered before cap. 1. not to concerne any pollicie of Elders Remonstrance but to keepe the general commandement of the lawe of the spirite of life they might as well say that the commaundement to drinke no water were meant by that place The holie ghost hath there warily vsed the singuler number 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which nowe you woulde make to pertaine to the perpetuitie of euerie thing conteined in that Epistle if it did so yet could it not helpe you for there is no such commandement for anie such Elders in that whole Epistle no nor anie mention by the way of them The 17. Demonstration That which is in euery ministers commission must be in euery congregation Demonstration But the ordination and practise of this office Mat. 28.20 is so or els they ordeined elders without warrant from Christ Ergo they must be in euery congregation Ex nihilo nihil fit Of nothing commeth nothing Remonstrance This is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great space betwene these two go 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make Disciples or teache all nations Ergo make vnpreaching Presbyters in all nations This the Demonstrationer made the Ministers Commission afore and is it nowe the Commission for vnteaching Elders to be ordained in euery place The reason of the Minor is false for neyther made they any such Elders in euery congregation neither doeth their authoritie for ordinations and sundry other points of Church-gourernment depend only vpon that Commission which respected the ministery of the word and Sacraments The 18. Demonstration Where a Bishop must be Demonstration Elders must be A Bishop must be in euery Congregation Ergo Elders This Demonstration is no guest but an ordinarie seruant Remonstrance for this serueth your turne often 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The one of these is no better knowne then the other there must be parish Bishops Ergo parish elders And it followeth not by any coherence any more then this There must bee a Constable in euery towne Ergo 24. Aldermen The 19. Demonstration If the Apostles established one vniforme order in al Churches Demonstration then there must be Elders in euery congregation but the first is true Ergo the second For S. Paul saith thus I teach in all Congregations To the Antecedent This is the fallacie of consequence Remonstrance The Apostles did stablish vniformitie for essentiall points of discipline but left not any policy for Lay elders The consecution of the maior is false Can there be none vniformity except such your Elders were euery where appoynted who indeede were nowhere To the Assumption S. Paul might very well leaue all pointes of wholesome doctrine all good order for the Church but neuer institute the particularities of your discipline The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator God hath giuen soueraigne authoritie ouer the Church to Christian Magistrates Demonstration which these Elders would abridge Answere of the Demonstrator No more then the eldership in Dauids time did abridge Dauids soueraignty ouer all Israel for his gouernment is temporall theirs is spirituall O foolish answere Remonstrance and fond conceite of an imaginable Elderdership in Dauids time who can abide this Master Elders haue spirituall gouernment but Kings and Queenes noursing fathers and mothers of the Church haue but ciuill and temporall gouernement onely ô tempora ô mores or as the learned discourse saith The prince is but a feeling member of the church the heads and chiefe gouernors are the ecclesiasticall Aldermen or presbyterie of the Church That yours abridge the Queenes soueraigntie is a little touched afore and shall more plainlie be shewed when you are at leasure to heare The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator Demonstration Gualt 1. Cor. 5. denieth the presbyterie to be needfull vnder a christian magistrate Answer of the Demonstrator Gualter denieth excommunication to be lawfull vnder a Christian magistrate He is as partiall as D. Whitgift It may be Gualter and others may denie it to be of the essence of a Church or rash excommunication Remonstrance with reply then the which nothing is more Anabaptisticall or where hope of repentance is he is not partiall nor he that taketh part in a good cause As for Gualters opinion if hee vtterly denie excommunication Pro Coelio Nolo cuiusquam fortis illustris viri vel minimum erratum cum maxima laude coniungere But it is vntrue to say he simplie denieth it or if hee did erre herein doth he therefore erre in the other But if you can so soone shake off Gualter in this point for his errout as you fansie in the other then may we also reiect Caluin in a matter whereof he was first father for his error against the lawfull supremacie of Christian princes in causes ecclesiasticall The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator Demonstration The Prince hath the authoritie which the Elders had Answer That is no truer then to say the Prince hath authoritie to preach which he must see done The Eldership you say may make ecclesiasticall lawes Remonstrance with replie may censure and excommunicate In taking these from the Prince to be done by her Delegates doe you not denie her Supremacie as for any ordaining shee may euen as well as your Eldership doe it but God forbid shee should claime it as they very absurdly doe HIErgo by this grosse position the prince must waite in euery place to see the elderships their dueties done but it is certaine Ex quolibet sequitur quidlibet in maintaining this imagination as for the Prince to see it done by your Elderships is a seruilitie and no soueraigntie especially when you say and T.C. before you that the princes must subiect them selues and submit their scepters and throwe downe their crownes before the Church and for the Church you roundly interprete the Presbyterie Absurditie of the Demonstrator Princes must lieprostrate to the Presbyterie And if your Elderships in deede haue this authoritie by their right in causes ecclesiasticall which the Prince must but see done then doe not they slaunder you which say you giue to the Prince potestatem facti non iuris and so yeelde her iust as large a supremacie as the Papistes doe Demonstrations to proue the eldershippe necessarie vnder Christian princes as in the Apostles time The 1. Demonstration The lesse able the ministers are to direct in godlines Demonstration the more neede they haue of Elders but ministers nowe vnder Christian magistrates are lesse able by reason of ease and peace Ergo. To the Maior Nay the more neede they haue of preachers and labourers in the haruest Remonstrance the more neede of discreete ouerseers not those pragmaticall busie-body elders To the Minor Doe not say that Salomon forbiddeth you say the dayes are worser nowe rather then the dayes of olde for that were a foolish thing Our dayes are blessed dayes blesse God for them This fallacie is secundùm non causam vt
handes or the censures of the Church inflicted in or since the Apostles time by or vnder the authoritie of those that themselues are no ministers but in all other respectes are meere lay men and but annuall or biennall officers in the Church If they cannot shewe it let them for euer hereafter holde their peace and confesse it to bee in trueth a deuise of mans braine which they woulde seeme so much to detest in Church gouernment The 1. Demonstration That which our Sauiour Christ refused ruling and gouerning the Church Demonstration and teaching the Church that is not lawfull for an ecclesiasticall person to doe but Christ refused to diuide the inheritance Luk. 12.14 Ergo Ecclesiasticall persons may not iudge in ciuill matters The syllogisme is to be concluded newe againe Remonstrance here are foure termini foure termes in three quarters of a yeere One conclusion is Ergo ecclesiasticall persons may not iudge in ciuill causes another should be Ergo ecclesiasticall persons may not diuide lande or inheritance Amphor a caepit institui currente rota sic vrceus exit To the Maior The Maior is to be denied all that our Sauiour refused euery of vs may not refuse he because he came to be a mediatour betweene God and man would not become a common diuider and iudge of euery secular cause of title of land who made me c. neither my heauenly father sent me to that end neither haue I commission from thy brother to sende thee into the moietie of the possession Besides if he had intermedled in the matters of the common weale it would haue strengthened the conceipte that he sought an earthly kingdome and to dispossesse the Romanes To reason from Christes refusal is the refuse of all good reason à non facto ad ius Christ woulde not or did not answere Pilate in iudgement must we therefore conclude Ergo at the tribunall of a Iudge it is at our discretion to answere or not to speake Christ did not condemne the woman taken in the acte of adulterie shall not therefore officers Ecclesiasticall condemne any such sinner To the Minor Christ refused to diuide the inheritance it was because hee woulde not vse the authoritie that hee had as Lorde of Heauen and earth when he came as a seruant not because either a Christian magistrate or minister shoulde after his example lay aside all authoritie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who hath appointed me emplieth rather that if he had bene appointed by both the parties he might haue done it and so may any minister arbitrate and compounde a controuersie ciuill that is committed vnto him If any Christians may be iudges of ciuill matters 1. Cor. 6. why may not some ministers in some ciuill matters If then hee may whome the Church appointeth nay whome two priuate men consent vpon though he be a person ecclesiasticall may not the Christian Soueraigne Prince much more commit a ciuill cause vnto them and they lawfully deale in it Or if it will be saide they may not so deale in causes ciuill delegated vnto them is then the sinne hereof in him who delegateth or who is delegated or in both But I neede not wade further into this matter I haue spoken something to it afore More authoritie ciuill then is delegated vnto them no Byshop hath may haue or doeth claime in this Realme and therefore except they will impugne this point their labour is superfluous By the way I will propounde this vnto them If all ciuill rule and authoritie bee denied to persons Ecclesiasticall as in it selfe impious howe may they rule their wiues children and housholde which is oeconomicall power and therefore ciuill as ciuill is opposite to ecclesiasticall Likewise howe may they cast their accompts receiue their rentes c. Nay when they are rubbed with their laye Elders and can no where finde them then they say they are not lay but Ecclesiasticall persons because they haue imposition of handes If they bee therefore so to bee accompted Countrey poyson then howe may they lawfully euen in the yeere of their Eldership be also ciuill magistrates as Sheriffes Iustices of peace maisters of their companies counsellours Syndicks and what not though most ciuill as dayly experience teacheth where that discipline is in vre Belike their assertions and rules are made onely against byshoppes not against themselues The 2. Demonstration That which was forbidden to the Apostles Demonstration is vnlawful for ecclesiastical officers but such dominiō was forbiddē Luk. 22.28 which is to rule ciuilly Ergo. That which was forbidden c. is vnlawfull Remonstrance But ambition tyranny contention for absolute seigneurial and ciuil authoritie was forbidden not a modest either ciuill or ecclesiastical superiority ergo to be ambitious contentious c. is vnlawfull In that here he applieth that of Luke to ciuill rule hee cleareth our Bishoppes from the daunger of it in exercising anie authoritie Ecclesiasticall This Argument is answered before The 3. Demonstration If necessarie dueties are to bee left rather then our duetie in the Church Demonstration then may not a Church-officer deale in ciuill iurisdiction but the former is true for a man may not burie his father Luc. 6.59 Ergo I denie the sequele of the Antecedent Remonstrance albeit some corporall or bodily offices which duetie biddeth to be done may vpon Christes commaundement be left vndone yet this is no barre to ministers and preachers of the Gospel to deale in any necessarie ciuill cause And how is it proued that no ciuill iurisdiction may stand with doing of his Church duetie There is none of themselues but they can be content to be executors to a wealthy widow or such like being no more afraid of it then they are to burie them To the Assumption Your quotation should be the 9. of Luke the meaning of which place is All Christians must lay aside all impedimentes and hinderaunces that may drawe them from comming to Christ but some ciuill authoritie amongst Christians is rather a furtherance What consequence cal ye this A man may not bury his own father rather then not follow Christ or if Christ otherwise encharge him Ergo a minister that liueth in a Christian common wealth may not lawfully haue a branch of commission from the prince for ciuil iurisdiction The 4. Demonstration If he that hath an office must attend on his office Demonstration then may hee not intermeddle with another office But the first is true Rom. 12.7 Ergo not with ciuill iurisdiction He may not intermeddle without lawfull calling or vocation Remonstrance yet the connexion hath no sequele Doe you not see some that haue two offices looke neere inough to both This will roaue at temporall men as well as at ecclesiasticall S. Paul disputeth of diligence in our function not of diuersitie of functions which diuerse functions may concurre in one See the answere to the first thus I retort against your selues He that
hath an office may not intermeddle with another Retortion A Pastor hath an other office in the Church then his Presidentship in their Eldership Ergo A pastor may not intermeddle in the Consistorie or Eldership The 5. Demonstration As the Souldier is in warfare Demonstrat so is the Church-officer in ruling of the church but the souldier entangleth not himselfe with things of this life which place Cyprian alleadgeth against a minister that became an executour of his friends will Ergo Church-officers not with things of this life To the Maior The Maior holdeth wherein the proportion is to be held Remonstrance for readines and expedition To the Minor The souldier is not to be a pragmatical fellow in other worldly affaires 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 No more the Diuine or preacher to be a worldling As for the place of Cyprian lib. 1. epi. 9. it may serue any of your elders that would encomber thēselues eyther with that or any other troublesome execution yet it is spoken of a tutorship or Gardianship which was by the Romane law more troublesome and lesse beneficial then an executorship and often times very dangerous to the state of the Tutor The 6. Demonstration Thinges of contrarie qualities cannot concurre Demonstrat The gouernment of the Church and common weale are so for they are both next speciall members of one generall the one spirituall the other temporall the one for the soule the other for the bodie Ergo To the Maior Things of contrary qualities may concurre in vno subiecto Remonstrance in one subiect not in extremities of degrees but remissiuely not in intenso gradu but the Maior is the contradiction of the Minor where you say they are speciall members of one general c. I take your meaning and not your wordes things desparated are not verifiable one of another or one of these two differences are not coincident one vpon another True it is ciuill gouernment is not Ecclesiasticall nor Ecclesiasticall ciuill Ergo say you these cannot meete in one This is most false for Morall vertues are not intellectuall nor intellectuall morall Ergo shal it follow none shall haue them both they may be in vno subiecto communi adequato not proprio Occonomie is not policie nor policie Oeconomie Ergo none can gouerne his house and priuate wealth and the common wealth also This is also false As for the addition of your Minor the one c. Ecclesiasticall gouernment is not onely spirituall which concerneth the conscience inwardly but Christian magistracie is also spirituall concerning the visible Church The other temporall It is not onely temporal vnlesse ye meane amongst the Church spiritual gouernment respecteth principally the soule not onely the soule Temporal gouernment not onely the body but secondarily toucheth the conscience and soule vnlesse you can fayne a body without a soule Here is your errour you doe not vnderstand that Christ doeth gouerne by the magistrate and minister both spiritually and externally howbeit by himselfe onely spiritually which doeth plunge you in this Turkish errour The 7. Demonstration If the whole gouernement of the Churche in particular office Demonstra and in the whole Eldershippe bee of great weight then may not a Churche officer intermedle in anie other calling But the first is true Ergo the second If you meane your imaginable Eldershippe Remonstrance and offices of your owne creation vpon your owne surmise you may conclude what you list if you meane pastoral eldership and our rightfull officers the sequele of the antecedent may iustly be denied For if the Church-gouernment be neuer so weighty yet it is not diminished by laying on the commission of some ciuill authoritie deriued especially from the supremacie of the prince Let my reason march vpon you thus If their Eldership ouer all mens doctrine and manners be too ponderous a weight for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 certaine priuate men artisans and plowe men and others for to beare then may they wel forbeare But the former is true Ergo the later The 8. Demonstration If the Apostles were vnsit for two offices both ecclesiasticall Demonstration then is the best church-gouernor vnfit for two the one of the common wealth the other of the Church But the first is true Act 6.2 Ergo This Antecedent commeth to this summe Remonstrance If the Apostles were vnfit to be Deacons and ministers then is no Christian or the best gouernour for two more different offices vnfit First the Apostles were not vnfitte for it but it for the Apostles Secondly the text speaketh not of vnfitnesse or insufficiencie but of inconueniencie or vnmeetnesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thirdly though it were vnmeete for the Apostles to leaue the ministration of the worde and to minister vnto tables because other might be founde who were meete for that place Neuerthelesse they beyng Apostles and extraordinary men might at their discretion relinquish one office and exercise another It must not necessarily follow hereupon that none being Ecclesiasticall men may beare a ciuil office amongst Christians and for Christian men To the Assumption That is denied to be expresly in the text But let the argument be drawne indifferently for vs both Either you account those two offices of Deaconrie and ministerie greater or lesse then a ciuill office and Ecclesiasticall all in one If greater why then you see that successiuely for the commoditie of the Church the Apostles vsed both If lesse howe holdeth your argument from the lesse to the greater or from the greater to the lesse sith with you the least Ecclesiasticall officer for the soule is greater then any ciuil officer for the bodie But if your reason be thus One man may not beare two hie offices both of great importance Ergo he may not beare one ecclesiastical office another ciuil the one of great the other of lesse credit The reason doth bende against your selues the Apostles did exercise one office of greater another of lesse weight for the well ordering of the Churche in their owne person For where haue you proued that they did cleane relinquish and put off the same Sith Saint Paul was carefull for collection and distribution of almes 1. Cor. 16. cap. Ergo an Ecclesiasticall person may haue in remissis gradibus both authorities in a Christian Common wealth which neither is nor ought to be secluded from the Church Goe and reconcile your selfe with your brother that writ so absurdly and confusedly de Politia Ciuili ecclesiastica for he is directly against you herein The 9. Demonstration That which was intollerable in the Papists in vs is vnlawful Demonstrat To beare both swords was intollerable in them Ergo in vs. To the Minor To beare both swords for the Q. or Prince that is Remonstrance to receiue as well temporall as spirituall iurisdiction from and for God and the Prince is not intollerable neither repugnant to the worde To vsurpe Christes office or to vsurpe
faultes if the persons did not like you I knowe your disposition where I dwell The 4. Demonstration That which is contrary to naturall affection and worketh the trembling of the very heart Demonstration may not be done but in extremitie So is excommunication Ergo. Why are not you afraid in your owne cause sith many of your crue stand excommunicate Remonstrance and yet like prophane Esau or Lucian the dogge make a ieste of it if you esteeme it not because Bishops doe inflict it we will and may vpon better ground contemne yours that lay elders determine whensoeuer you set vp shoppe The 2. Assertion of the Demonstration Excommunication must be done by the Elders Demonstration not by one man The 1. Demonstration That which Christ commaunded to bee done by the Church may not be done by one man but Christ commaunded so 18. Mat. 15. Ergo. What force is in your Maior Remonstrance The Church must pray for princes Ergo no one man may Christ commaunded at one time the Apostles to preach Ergo all must preach together and no one of them To the Minor This is most absurde for then hee commaunded to be done and ouerdone that is both done and vndone viz. both by the Presbyterie and then by the whole Congregation for so you teache If in those wordes Tell the Church the Church is the Eldership then the rest of the Congregation hath not any warrant to giue consent or to deale in it which else-where you require For when the Church that Christ committed it vnto haue once determined the matter what haue those to doe further that were not meant nor thought of by him And if hee that tels the Eldershippe any thing telles it to the Church what neede any moe bee acquainted with that belonges not to them For if they be of the Church they knowe it already Et qui certus est amplius non debet certiorari if they be not then let them pacifie themselues but if the whole Congregation be theremeant then hath not the Eldershippe therein authoritie giuen by that place And if the Church be the Eldershippe then the one is the other idem numero conuertuntur so that he that is not of the Eldership is none of the Church To auoide these absurdities they will say the Eldershippe is called the Church because it hath herein the authoritie of the Church This is strange Shall they bee the Church it selfe that haue herein the Churches authoritie then he is a king that in some thing hath the kings authoritie Well let it goe Those that with vs doe excommunicate haue the Churches authoritie also and let them shewe a reason out of the worde of God why the Church may not giue her authoritie to one aswell as to many If this bee one of your essentiall pointes that the Church cannot giue it to one for shame finde some Scripture for it If you say that the Church being a collectiue must needes bee more then one true but yet one or a fewe may haue the authoritie of many committed to them as one man may bee Syndic or Legate for a whole common weale If it cannot bee represented but by a number then two may serue else shewe by howe many and both of these by Scripture or confesse your gouernement not to be grounded on Scripture And when such authoritie is giuen to many shew that any thing may bee done except euery of them agree for if you say as you practise that the most voyces ouercome the fewer shewe Scripture for that and howe the odde voyce that makes the greater number hath such a power as to make that to bee the determination of the Church which otherwise were not so And if in such case one odde voice perhaps of a very odde fellowe may haue such force why may not a Byshops voyce bee of as great force in this matter where the Church committes it to him That by this place the power generall of excommunication is not established may thus appeare For if this be the very warrant and cōmission that it hath then may none excōmunication proceede in any other matter then vpon priuate offences originally and onely by the same degrees that there bee propounded otherwise the commission were violated That an Eldershippe as is fancied shoulde haue that power here giuen to them cannot be entended for if Christ had ordeyned them afore this time then their authorities whatsoeuer were no doubt giuen withall vnto them but wee reade no such thing The pollicie of the Iewish Synagogue had still his continuance and Christ had not yet setled the Church which hee was in gathering That by these wordes at this time it was erected it coulde not be for neither were the officers afore ordeyned of which it consisteth viz. of Elderly doctor and Pastor vndoctorly and vnpastorally Elder and of deacons nor yet were they here ordeyned For the Apostles could neuer out of this single worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church haue picked this great varietie and distinction of officers and their authoritie which they had neuer heard of afore But Christ speaketh hereof to them as of a thing knowen whereunto in like case resort might bee had But if it were here appointed consisting of Christ and his Apostles then was Christes headshippe of the Church taken from him and hee ranged with his Apostles as his collegues in the Eldershippe Then also must they either say that Christ was not perpetuall president in such eldership but as it fell to his lotte or choise as they now practise in Synodes and conference albeit the Pastor in their Elderships be the President perpetuall or they must haue a perpetuall president in all their Synodicall assemblies to be conformable to this being the best and first It will also hereof followe if your Elders mind to be successors of the Apostles in an eldership here they must be ministers of the worde and Sacraments as the Apostles and all the first Elders were Then also cannot your Eldership haue any other parts of authoritie then Christ at this their institution here bestowed vpon them as namely you must abandon ordinations depositions and other gouernment Lastly if he ment to erect an office or authoritie that afore was not the wordes would haue bene praeceptiue and dispositiue for such purpose not imperatiue commaunding onely a course to be holden before such a tribunall as was not afore erected or heard of for it woulde thus or in some like forme haue beene conceiued let such and such Church gouernours bee erected to whome you may alwayes tell it If therefore to auoyde these inconueniences it wil be said that he made allusion to the Iewish Sanhedrim or College of 72. in vse with them and wel knowen to them with insinuation that as the Iewes had so hee would haue established in his Church which should after be gathered of the Iewes and Gentiles Besides that it is likely the name of Sanhedrim would haue
Episcopo suo nec Ecclesiasticam disciplinam cum fide quiete iuxta praecepta Domini continerent vt relictis Domini sacerdotibus contra Euangelicam disciplinam noua traditio sacrilegae institutionis exurgat Note whether these wordes of Cyprian concerne not our times Nowe it is cleare whence T. C. his faction ariseth howe it tooke rooting howe it is hardened He and his crue haue withdrawne certaine who of good zeale professe the name of Christ from the loue and obedience of their Superior or Pastor or Bishop and haue dangerously drawne them into contempt of Ecclesiasticall discipline to breake from the faith and allegeance of the Lordes precepts that by forsaking of the Lorde his Priestes contrarie to the Euangelicall discipline they might begin a newe platforme of sacrilegious institution of their own discipline Obserue last of all that Ecclesiasticall discipline Euangelicall discipline which S. Cyprian soundeth farre otherwise then the newe Tetrarchie of Doctors Pastors Elders and Deacons discipline for it is taken for the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles Yet here of by the way we gather that such as breake foorth from the Bishops gouernment and censures as our schismatikes doe with greatest contempt that may be doe offend against the commandements and the doctrine or discipline of the Gospell and therefore a superioritie of Bishops is a diuine institution by Cyprians iudgement who liued not very long after the Apostles times I might answere Allegare non est probare Allegation is no demonstration least of all of humane authoritie And all this may be granted and nothing gained to the cause Dominus Demonstrator doeth passe away in cloudes of generalitie and concludeth not the question So that in steede of 18. demonstrations there are 18. monsters some without head some without taile some without middle others without arme all without harme not able to affright the veriest foole that is with so much as a false feare of loosing the impregnable fort of the trueth of our cause * ⎠* CAPVT SECVNDVM IN the second chapter followe certaine Maximes of their own or certaine Oracles of one T. C. tanquam ex tripode which if you will not take vpon T.C. his credite you may take it vpon the credite of 20. letters or take vnto you the whole Alphabet to make demonstrations thereby The 1. Proposition No calling is lawfull but which is directly warranted out of the worde to him that executeth it Demonstration The 2. Proposition The name and office of an Archbishop is contrarie to the worde of God The 3. Proposition No man may be ordeined to an office vntill a place be voide as he is fit for Euery one of these propositions hath a speciall aime to the vsuall intended markes of a cauilling Sophister Remonstrance The 1. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or meere trifling Aristot de reprehens Soph. as Aristotle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Like as a Cuckow to sing alwaies one song as in the former Chapter the Demonstrator trifleth vp and downe The 2. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a false or starke staring lie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make a demonstration of a lie The 3. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a meere Paradoxe which neuer any but of this newe fantasie said before The saying is A three twisted corde will not easily breake asunder but this thrise twisted cable knappeth asunder If the Demonstrator will onely propound we may lawfully returne these propositions home againe 1. No calling is lawfull but directly warranted to him that executeth it All lay Presbyteri or vnpreaching eldership with the authoritie they attribute vnto it is vnwarranted directly by Gods worde to them that doe execute it Ergo No such calling is lawfull 2. No name of Superioritie for order and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Church is contrary to the worde The name and office of Archbyshop Archdeacon Deanes are such names and offices of Superioritie Ergo No names and offices of Archbyshop Archdeacon c. are contrary to the worde 3. Paul Barnabas Epaphroditus Andronicus Iunius and others were not forth with limited to a certaine place But Paul Barnabas Philip c. were ordeined Ministers Ergo Certaine were ordeined Ministers not limitted to a place The 1. Demonstration which is a reason of this 1. redoubted Proposition If Iohn were constrained to prooue his ministerie out of the worde when the Priestes accused him Demonstration Then there is no lawfull calling but warranted in the worde but he prooued his calling Ergo no calling lawfull but which is warranted in the worde To the Antecedent This fallacie is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the consequent Remonstrance The sequele of the Antecedent is to be denyed which is in plainer termes this vz. There is no calling in the newe but is first warranted by some prophecie of the olde Testament To the Assumption But he prooued his ministerie Whether he prooued or did not prooue whether he were accused or not accused the ministerie of Iohn was a lawful ministerie their impeachment there of was not to hinder the execution of his ministerie The warrant rather is the immediate commission from heauen and the prophecie that went of him to exercise his ministerie Howe followeth the Argument à facto adius Or from their constraint to the warrantize of his calling If any proofe should be drawen for or against it can bee other in consequence then this One extraordinarie Minister did vpon occasion of those that cauilled at him prooue his extraordinarie calling out of the worde of God Then euery ordinarie Minister may against wranglers prooue his ordinarie ministerie out of the worde to be the ordinance of God Euen so doe we Or this Iohannes confessus est non negauit Iohn 1.20 Iohn did confesse and denyed not confessed who he was and denied not who hee was Euen so in humilitie we ought to doe and semblably doe Vnlesse it please you to argue after this sort out of the text These things were done in Bethany or Bethabara beyond Iordan or Iohn proued his ministerie in Bethany or Bethabara beyonde Iordan Ergo your ministerie must be proued in Bethany beyond Iordan O then your reason hath a further fetch beyond or on the other side of Iericho or Iordan Or else better after this sort Iohn exercised his ministerie and proued it too without warrantie of an outwarde calling of any that sate in Moses chaire for the people helde him for a Prophet Ergo you haue an exercise of your ministerie without an outwarde calling and may runne before you are sent and the people holde your prophecie and baptisme to be true But this will sauour strongly of Anabaptisme I trowe The 2. Demonstration The callings vnder the Gospel must haue as good warrant as the callings vnder the Law Demonstration But all callings vnder the Lawe except miraculous had direct warrant Ergo. Ridetur chorda qui semper oberrat eadem Remonstrance A
Christ for externall policie of the Church and to bee constituted for mere humaine policie Vide Sarau lib. 1. de diuersis grad minist This conclusion therefore driueth the dust and winde of their folly into their owne eyes God and christian policie ordeyneth all ministers Ergo all ministers haue the same efficient Or God and christian policie ordeyneth all ministers God and christian policy are not diuerse efficients as this diuerse man doeth dreame but subordinate for all christian policy is the good gift of God and therefore no efficient absolute of it selfe but effected by God The 2. Demonstration A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things Demonstration ministers of the word and the LL. BB. haue diuerse formes as their ordinacion sith one L.B. may ordeine a minister but there must be three to ordeine one of them Ergo To the Maior Whether you meane accidentall forme or substanciall Remonstrance it is not euer true viz. diuerse formes make diuers things you know the olde sayde saw Ouorum inter se similitudo Nothing so like as an egge to an egge Nothing so like as Hypocrates two twinnes which in specie were not different things yet the one was not the other Againe diuerse formes are in any thing as Trigonus in Tetragono the one included in the other or where the one is ordeyned for the complement and perfection of the other 2. physic Homo prius viuit vitam plantae deinde bruti postremò hominis To the Minor The ministers and the LL. BB. haue one essentiall forme in their ordinacion to the ministerie as in giuing them the ministeriall charge of the word the administration of the sacraments which is his commission for the ministery The forme is all one the consecration of a B. which is a commission for superiour authoritie in ordinacions and iurisdictions with the censures or whatsoeuer else is annexed thereunto is neuer a deale the more for the presence of three any newe or straunge ordiancion of a ministery For accidens non mutat speciem subiecti yet is it such as if we read al the old fathers counsels and other antiquitie who were like to know best in what sort the apostles planted established churches ye shal neuer find aboue one B. required at the ordination of any presbyter a priest or minister but 2. BB. at least and the Metropolitane at the consecration of a B. according to which number our booke of ordination in that behalfe was framed it may be gathered from the like ordination of Paul and Barnabas in the thirteenth of the Acts the one of which was an apostle the other vir apostolicus before from which example I reason thus Either this new ordination of Paul by the prophets and doctors of Antioch gaue him a new and diuerse ministerie from his former so that he continued not an Apostle still or else by this accession no such alteration is made But he continued an apostle still ergo by this accession of ordination or function no such diuersitie was made And consequently an accession of function or authoritie vnto our BB. by their consecration maketh them not cease to be ministers of the worde still which is contradictorie to their maior and therefore that vntrue But to pommell them about the pates with their owne swordes thus againe I may reason A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things Ministers and Elders in a church not yet established must bee chosen and ordeyned by the whole church but in a church established by the presbitery alone as their owne platformers describe which two bee diuers formes and diuerse members of ordeiners ergo they who be chosen and ordeyned after the first manner haue a diuerse ministery and eldershippe from such as be of the latter making and consequently the first being of another kinde cannot choose or ordeine any of the second sort and so shall their newe discipline be nipped in the head and stand after possibilitie of issue extinct Or thus A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things All our new discipliners sauing the church of Scotland which thinketh it a needelesse abrogated ceremony in ordination of elders doe necessarily require and vse imposition of hands ergo the ministers of Scotland haue a seuerall function and ministery from all reformed churches besides Or reason for your selues and reason thus Mixt formes put together make either no thing quia species cum specie non copulatur c. or a mingle mangle Retortion of their argument erratum naturae a monstruous thing The newe manner and guise of ordination by combining laitie and clergie is not actus purus but a compound and mixt forme ergo such ordination by the imposing of handes of laitie and clergie maketh their ministerie either a nullitie or a monstruous thing The 3. Demonstration Members of one diuision are distinct one from another Demonstration The L.BB. and ordinarie ministers are members of one diuision for the ministers are diuided into the Rulers and ruled Ergo To the Maior The axiome is Remonstrance Membra vnius diuisionis contra distinguuntur de se inuicem non predicantur are not verifiable one of another As a man is not an horse prudence is not fortitude fortitude is not prudence howbeit they are concident in vno subiecto as temperance and prudence in one Scipio Secondarily conueniunt in aliquo superiori meete and concurre in one generall or vniuersall a man and beast in one liuing creature This is T.C. ouersight See the defense of the answere to the admonition 203. pa. To the Minor The Minor we distinguish The Ministers are not oppositiuely distinguished but relatiuely Or the diuision is of the common of more into the common of the lesse They are not of diuers predicaments The argument to be framed is thus Euery B. is not an inferiour minister ergo euery inferiour minister is not a B. in or out of his parish viz. a parish B. which these men craue The fallacie is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Absurditie of the Demonstrator It is absurd to argue thus The BB. and other inferiour ministers are according to superioritie and inferiority of order distinct ergo altogether and in euery respect distinct Or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worde that importeth ministers aswel as deacons or ministers are diuided into BB. and priests ergo BB. are not priests Or thus Their officers ecclesiasticall are diuided into pastores doctores presbyteros et diaconos ergo Pastores non sunt presbyteri et per consequens non sunt de presbyterio Pastours are none Elders and therefore are not of the Eldership The 4. Demonstration The thing that haue diuerse effects are diuers in themselues one from another Demonstration The LL.BB. and other ministers haue diuerse effects The one effecteth gouernment the other subiection Ergo To the Maior What a confident Demonstration call you this An 100. Remonstrance Instances to one thing Eaedem causae sunt interimentes quae efficientes
subscription the consent of the Fathers his constitution of Bishops in that large Island of Candie ioyned with the epistle will proue more then T.C. coniecture And how followeth this he was a Preacher of the Gospell or Euangelist ergo none Archbishop was not Idmes an Apostle and Bishop of Ierusalem The 3. Obiection Anacletus sayth Demonstration Iames was first Archbishop of Ierusalem Answere He is forged as our answere to the Papistes haue shewed But Eusebius li. 2. cap. 25. calleth him Bishop and Simeon after him li. 3. cap. 22. and so Irenaeus li 4. ca. 63. Apostles ordeined Bishops euery where making no mention of Archbishops This is the readiest answere that commeth out of your forge Remonstrance with reply Bishop Iewell in his question betweene vs and you vouchsafeth to alledge Anacletus whome you so peremptorily reiect Anacletus saith he that was next after Peter if there be any weight in his word nameth Archbishop Anacletus as neerer vnto those times in his epistle 1. Tom. Concil saith Iames called Iustus was Archbishop of Ierusalem Now say you Eusebius calleth him but Bishop of Ierusalem by the way T.C. giueth or lendeth you a false quotation 22. cap. for 11. cap. ergo no Archbishop It would scare a man to reason with you you do it so cleerely as if a chiefe among Bishops or Archbishop were not a Bishop Howbeit neither Eusebius nor Irenaeus speaketh exclusiuely for euery Archbishop is a Bishop not euery Bishop an Archbishop è conuerso Hîc semper erras To reason from auctorities negatiuely is an affirmatiue impudencie As rightly might you reason and doe wrong to diuine auctoritie Moses made Captaines of 100. and 1000. ergo Moses made not any superiour Magistrate as the 72. Or Christ sent 72. Disciples ergo he sent none of the 12. Apostles or any other officers The 4. Obiection The Councell of Nice Demonstration canon 6. mentioneth a Metropolitane Bishop Answere That proueth nothing it is as much as Bishop of the chiefe Citie You cut off the definition of the Archbishop at the waste Remonstrance with reply for the Councel not onely mentioneth a Metropolitane who is idem re which the Archbishop is but defineth him also Cui conuenit definitio conueniet definitum è contrà Antiqua consuetudo seruetur per Aegyptum Libyam Pentapolim vt Alexandrinus Episcopus horum omnium habeat potestatem 6. ca. Let the olde custome be kept throughout Aegypt Libya Pentapolis that the bishop of Alexandria haue his iutisdictiō or auctoritie ouer them It was then no noueltie but an ancient and primitiue custome What is the Archbishop or Metropolitane bishop one who hath power one who must be primus inter eos first or chiefe 6. can or primate amongest them 33. ca. Apostol quodammodo pro capite 35. ca. Apost 33. can Apostol 35. can Apostol as it were their head head of the rest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one that hath care of the whole prouince conc Antio ca. 9. ca. 9. conc Antio What is a Metropolitane bishop but an Archbishop None was to be ordeined a B. without the consent of the Metropolitane bishop This is a great reproofe to him that is not past blushing when he shall alledge that which conuinceth him selfe as this doeth you A litle bringing about will make you confesse in plainenes which you confesse in circumloquution It is but nicetie thus to deale with the famous Councell of Nice The 2. part of the Proposition That the office of Archbishop is contrarie to the worde of God Demonstration The 1. Demonstration Euery ministerie lawfull is of God The office of Archbishop is not described in the worde nor of God but of humane pollicie ergo vnlawfull To the Maior This is one of your Demonstrations à causaremota Remonstrance when you fetch your medius terminus so farre of as frō God neuer quote a place but I graunt your Maior if you can proue the Minor To the Minor The office of the Archbishop is from God Cyp. li. 1.11.50 secundùm Dei dignationem sacerdotium Dei ad ministramus Contradiction to themselues and described in Gods word that it is not of meere humane pollicie you are answered before but of God though mediatiuely by diuine permission permissione diuina as themselues in humilitie doe confesse Obserue this by the way as a contradiction you make vnto your selues Where you nowe say the office is not described in the word a litle before you say the Archbishop doeth vsurpe Christ his proper name which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Archbishop or high or chiefe pastour Nowe to euery name longeth a charge and office and to the name pastour and bishop longeth an office and so per consequens to the Archbishop as sometime to Titus and Timothie an higher charge and pastorall office The 2. Demonstration That ministerie whose originall is vnknowne hath no warrant in Gods word Demonstration and is vnlawful the Archbishop is so pag. 351. of the Defense of the answere to the Admonition ergo To the Maior The Maior I denie Remonstrance and distinguish vpon this word vnknowne vnknowne is an ambiguous worde There is an originall of the name of the nature of the name There is ignotum nobis ignotum natura vnknowne to vs and vnknowne in nature which vnknowne doe you meane make it once knowne Lucan I may say vnto you as the Poet Lucan saide ignotum vobis Arabes venistis in orbem you are children of a strange worlde that comming into the world of Christianitie make the Archbishops ministerie an vnknowne thing To the Minor If you meane vnknowne the nature and equitie of the thing this is vtterly false the superioritie of the Archbishops is most clerely knowne Concil Antioch both in and before the first Councell of Nice and in the Ecclesiastical historie and lineally descended from the Apostles themselues It skilleth not for the originall of the name sith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may beare equiualencie with the name sith in the practise of the Apostles a blinde man may see also amongest the Primatiue Christians a superiour authoritie supported by the name But if your meaning be it is vnknowne to you contemners and breakers downe of the hedge and wall of all iurisdiction it maketh no matter what is knowne or vnknowne vnto you who haue forgotten all together and knowe not your selues See nowe whether this Syllogisme can be retorted vpon your selues Retortion of the argument That publike function whose originall is vtterly strange and vnknowne in nature and in name hath no warrant in the worde nor is authorised in the Church Your confused popular vnpreaching temporarie mechanicall Presbyteri or Aldermāship is vtterly vnknown but within these fewe yeeres of late neither is it knowne to any but your selues if perhaps you knowe it your selues ergo it is neither warranted by God nor ought to be auctorised by the Church The 3.
supreme ciuil power iure diuino as certaine Bishops of Rome haue done and claime or to place themselues in Princes thrones that is vnlawfull You can neuer shewe any such resemblance betwixt a Bishop being a Iustice of peace or counseller and the Popes vsurped authoritie claimed as due vnto him The 10. Demonstration If it be lawful for an Ecclesiastical man to exercise the office of a ciuil magistrate Demonstrat then è contra for the ciuill magistrate to exercise the office of an Ecclesiastical person but the later is vnlawful ergo the former The one is not as lawfull as the other Remonstrance though vpon a lawfull calling I see no reason why a ciuill magistrate may not exercise c. But where the example of the one is more frequent then the example of the other there it may seeme more lawful for the one then for the other It was lawfull for Samuel to kill Agag which was the office of Saul but not lawfull for Saul to offer sacrifice which was the office of Samuel The office of the ciuil magistrate may by commission or deriuation of power be committed to whom best pleaseth him not è contra The reason is the ciuill gouernment is a matter of accident not of the essence of the Ministerie I see no refusal you can make of this absurditie Absurditie of the Demonstrator if you so deeme it If a ciuill man may exercise the office of an Ecclesiasticall person then may an Ecclesiasticall man much rather execute the office of a ciuil person for that is but an accessorie thing to the principall office which hee beareth But a ciuil man may be an Elder that is an Ecclesiasticall officer and the most honourable may not refuse without disdaine of God as you say Ergo the Ecclesiastical person may beare the office of a ciuil magistrate The 11. Demonstration Demonstrat They may not entangle themselues with worldly affaires Can. aposto c. 80. but Ecclesiastical He must commodum se exhibere vsibus Ecclesiasticis Remonstrance so that hee may best serue for the vses and seruices of the Church Or so that one be not an impediment to another The 12. Demonstration or Allegation Demonstrat None of the clergie shall receiue charges of those who are vnder age Conc. Calcedon ca. 3. 7. or be steward to noblemen or receiue any secular honour That is Remonstrance none of the Clergie shall take the tutorship of any or make a confusion of callings and functions otherwise the Canon carieth no sense The 13. Demonstration Demonstrat or Allegation The Bishops shall onely attend to prayer 4 Conc. Carth. ca. 20. and preaching and reading The wordes are Episcopus nullam rei familiaris curam ad se reuocet Remonstrance Or he shal be so employed vnlesse vpon lawful commaund and calling His housholde cares may not make him forget his charge yet hee must haue care thereof bene praeesse propriae domui as S. Paul teacheth But doe you thinke this Canon barreth you from prouiding for your household affaires or to be masters in your owne houses The 14. Allegation or Demonstration Caluin Institut lib 4. cap. 11. sect 9. bringeth diuers reasons to prooue that Bishops may neither take nor vsurpe any ciuil office Demonstrat Caluin bringeth them Remonstrance but you can not bring forth the reason but like god Mercury in the high way point which way they go but vtter nothing There is neuer an one of his reasons concludent to proue it simply vnlawfull but by way of that which may happen by it The 15. Allegation or Demonstration Beza confess cap. 5. Sect. 32. 42. sheweth the distinguishment of offices Demonstrat and how the father 's dealt in things of this life and how the Apostles punishments were extraordinarie Ergo is not so cleare on your side Remonstrance for if the Apostles censures were extraordinarie how dare you draw some of them into consequence If giuing of aduise in all matters of warre and peace and in determinations iudiciall be matters of this life then Beza himselfe vseth ciuil authoritie as much as any one Ecclesiasticall man in any reformed Church in Europe The 16. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstrat When both offices meete in one the one hindereth the other Martyr 13. R◠That is when the ciuil power is excessiue or illimitable Remonstrance The same Martyr out of Chrysostome saith The Gospel was giuen to stablish the policie and gouernment of Princes and why not the policie of Princes for the Gospel The 17. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstrat There is no man so wise holy able to exercise ciuil ecclesiastical power Bucer 5. Matth. That is in plenitudine potestatis Remōstrance The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator It countenanceth and mainteineth religion Demonstrat Answere of the Demonstrator It is the Papists reason which Caluin confuteth Inst lib. 4. cap. 11. sect 9. for the two swords The reason is no worse whose reason soeuer it be Remonstrance with reply but to two swordes it serueth not there is one indepriuable authoritie to beare the sword The 2. obiection of the Demonstrator It is good to punish vice by corporall punishment that the word may be obeyed Demonstrat Answere of the Demonstrator It is good to preach the word that they may obey their Prince for conscience sake May the magistrate therefore preach We must doe good agreeable to our calling Yea therefore it is good Remonstrance with reply being granted frō the Christian magistrat to punish sinne corporally as for the wanderment of your instance if the magistrate be so called he may preach obedience in his owne person and he that inflicteth corporall punishment doe no more then may stand with his calling The 3. obiection of the Demonstrator Eli and Samuel were both Priestes Demonstrat Answere of the Demonstrator They were extraordinarie and so was Eliahs killing of Baals priestes and Christs whipping of buyers c. God separated them in Moses and Aaron Cohanim in Hebrew signifieth princes and priests Remonstrance with reply and therefore that is doubtfull Though the men were extraordinarie the offices are not alwayes so but they leaue the vse of corporall infliction to punish Atheisme and Idolatrie and to augment godlinesse It is ordinarie with you to answere all thinges by extraordinarie when you can hit of none other all the old Testament is full of such examples of Ecclesiasticall men who exercised ciuill power yea not being delegated by any superiour Magistrate and therefore seemeth ordinarie that falleth out so often and in so many The 4. Obiection of the Demonstrator Peter killed Ananiah Demonstrat Ergo Bshops may haue prisons Answere of the Demonstrator It was with the worde onely If they can doe like Peters example wil serue If not then it is extraordinarie Hierom epistola ad Demetriadem
exercise the censure of excommunication as they are called vnto it As for the second they were not vnlike our Church wardens or Sidemen if any such were which I rather beleeue not The 14. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstrat Idem ibidem It is dangerous to permit to one man Hee doeth not say It is vnlawfull for one to doe it Remonstrance neither can it be dangerous in open Consistorie being directed by lawe when wherefore and against whom to doe it for so it is lesse dangerous then if many had to doe in it going onely of head and without all forme or direction of lawe as is vsed by your Elderships The 15. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstrat Caluin instit li. 4. c. 11. sect 6. It openeth a way to tyrannie and abrogateth the Ecclesiastical Senate ordeined by Christ It is false For vnder a Christian Prince and pastorall Elders the spirituall iurisdiction is exercised lawfully without tyrannie Remonstrance Why bring you not Cartwr also to proue it Caluin was the first in all the world that erected such a Senate The 16. Allegation The Bishops of themselues if they excommunicate doe it ambitiously contrary to the Canons See Bucer against Gropper Ephes 4. de animi cura Demonstrat Idem Instit 4. li. 12. cap. Sect. 6. and Swinglius in Ecclesiast According to your quotation I finde no such place in Caluin Remonstrance When you alledge thus in grosse you must not looke to be answered in particular As for the Bishops excommunication it is according to S. Pauls practise 1. Corinth 5. where he excommunicated Hymeneus and Alexander 1. Tim. 1. ca. The 17. Allegation Demonstrat See the Abstract pag. 165. It is forbidden by that filthie puddle the Canon lawe That is filthily spoken Remonstrance If the Abstracter had vnderstoode the lawes hee bringeth hee might haue founde an answere where he found the obiection But is this with our Demonstrator a good argument The Canon law forbiddeth it Ergo vnlawful It so forbiddeth Priestes mariage and the Communion in both kindes Are they therefore vnlawfull The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator The right of excommunication was in S. Paul and not in the rest Demonstrat Answere of the Demonstrator He gaue onely the direction otherwise if they had not done it hee had remained vnexcommunicate If they neuer had denounced and published the excommunication yet S. Paul had neuerthelesse excommunicated him Remonstrance with reply and also the chastisement had proceeded on him And might they lawfully haue disobeyed the Apostles iudgement or crossed his determination The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator Christ gaue Peter and euery Apostle power to binde and loose which the interpreters expound excommunication Demonstrat Matth. 18. Answere of the Demonstrator That was power of preaching in denouncing Gods iudgement or pronouncing his mercies not of this action It is to be vnderstoode of both Remonstrance with reply the wordes are almost all one Iohn 20.22 v. Matth. 16.20 v. and Matth. 18. Albeit the place includeth that binding and loosing which is by preaching of the worde it doeth not exclude binding and loosing which is in excommunication and absolution by power of the word See Chrysostome super Matth. 16. What impudencie is this to denie that an Apostle had authoritie to excommunicate who could take life and sight away from an offender But see howe hee contrarieth himselfe For if this be not meant of excommunication why doe you afore bring it to proue that your Eldership is thereby authorized to excommunicate The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator Paul did excommunicate Hymenaeus and Alexander Demonstrat Answere of the Demonstrator That is he was but moderatour of the action or did pronounce it euen so Ambrose and the fathers did Nay Remonstrance with reply hee did it without consent of the Church of Ephesus for there was some more castigation vnderstoode and emplied in those words 1. Timoth. 1.20 v. I haue deliuered them to Sathan The argument doeth hold good S. Paul 1. Cor. 5. did it and seconded the action Ergo S. Paul was alone a doer in the action If without Scripture or reason a man may surmise and adde what hee list and when hee list then we may also aswell say that the whole senate of Rome consented with him in that action You finde no consent of Eldershippe or people in Ambroses action requested Either leaue falsifying and mangling or giue ouer demonstrating Conclusion IF the Demonstrator cannot neither as yet hath shewen by the light of nature clearenesse of reason report of historie allegation of Councell testimonie of fathers grounde of lawe euidence of Scripture nor euer shall be able to proue by necessarie demonstration any exacte platteforme for particularities of gouernment and externall Church policie that Christ hath prescribed any such foure Tetrarchies of speculatiue Doctor who must teach and not applie any such abstractiue Pastor who must exhort and not teache any such gouerning Elder who may neither exhort nor teache any such Deacon whose deaconshippe is distribution to the poore onely that is a meere corporall office and no attendance on the ministerie any such tumultuary election to bee perpetuated by the common people and their approbation of ministers election any such prophanitie of ordination and censuring by lay Elders any such Democracie in the Church or equalitie of all to be parishe Bishops any such indefatigable continuall residence of Pastors on the place without naturall or legall dispensation for absence vpon any occasion any such laicall or mixt Aldermanshippe or Eldershippe ouer all mens doctrine manners and matters in the Church any such censure of admonition suspension excommunication by a companie of Church Aldermen as in their owne right Then let the Demonstrator blush and be ashamed of so many fabulous narrations absurd collections out of text brutish reasons so many and so many falsifications of authorities childish paralogismes and anapodicticall or vndemonstrable demonstrations and let him bee touched in conscience and repent of all his slaunderous and calumnious speaches wherewith hee hath blasphemed this Church of Englande And in the name of God let our Church be gouerned still by rules of Gods worde by such canons of the Apostles and Councels and prouinciall constitutions and ordinances subordinate to the worde of God ratified by our most Christian and vertuous Prince Let vs thanke God for our gouernours Archbishops Bishops and superiour ministers and magistrates whose offices and equitie of the offices are in the worde and continued practise of the Church hitherto and let the inferiour ministers of what name or calling soeuer be gouerned by them as lawe prescribeth Let the examination be by the Ordinaries and Diocesans of men eligible and ordinable who knowe more then a thousand vnlearned Let the ordination be by the imposition of the Bishops and other pastorall Elders and ministers hand Let the execution of their offices be stil with diligence in preaching exhorting ministring of the Sacraments prouiding for the poore as God giueth abilitie Last of all let the exercise of the whole ecclesiasticall discipline be put in vse by worde of admonition or censure of suspension or excommunication where neede is by those able gouernours whom God the Prince Synode and Parliament haue put in trust withall and let vs holde on one and the same tenour of doctrine and discipline which maugre this wooden Demonstrator and T.C. Demost 1. Olynth that is tryfling curiositie we haue held 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would all were well for euery mans sake Laus Deo Errata Fault Correction In the Preface pag. 3. line 24.  equinoction equiuocation P. 5. lin 12. dele ergo  P. 13. li. 6. demonstrate demonstration P. 20. li. 6. 20. two P. 25. li. 31. Syndicts Syndics P. 26. li. 20. any some one ibi li. 32. ordiancion ordination P. 27. li. 21. members numbers P. 33. li. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 P. 37. li. 34. reuenge him reueage himselfe P. 49. li. 11. demises deuises Ibi. marg example epistle P. 53. li. 21. whole while P 72. li. 33. breede bredde P. 75. li. 6. is the is in the. P. 77. li. 16. lay ministring lay vnministring Ibi. li. 22.6.1 1. and 6. P. 81. li. 26. lowe lower Ibi. li. 38. columned continued P. 83. li. 32. runne not runne riot P. 87. li. 37. Irenaeus Grinaeus P. 109. li. 5. vnliable vnhable P. 110. li. 26. sence it sence as it P. 128. li. 33. by to P. 138. li. 18. Cicester Chichester P. 147. li. 11. preach practise P. 164. li. 34. posuerit poesis erit P. 166. li. 3.72 72. Euangelists P. 167. li. 14. Tragelapsus Tragelaphus P. 176. li. 28. were come were to come P. 177. li. 6. Papists Popish P. 108. li. 22. they they of the faction P. 201. li. 26. did had