be Sainctes in heauen Let the Prince make you aunswere for the continuance of such callēders for we haue not to do with them Neuerthelesse because you speake of a Callendar that is vsed euery where you declare that you haue small experience in Callendars for euery cuntry hath them diuers in most dayes except holy dayes and in some cuntry Callendars such dayes are festiuall to those Saincts that haue not their names in Callendars of other cuntries yea it may be doubted whether they haue their names in the booke of life If you sawe a Bohemians Callendar perhaps if you shoulde see Iohn Hus and Ierom of Prage which your church condemned for heretikes and haue as solemne feastes in the Callender as Peter and Paule wherefore we acknowledge those to be Sainctes in deede not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men but are written in the booke of life of the Lambe that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proued by any man of the Protestancy that these were either of the Protestants Congregation or beleefe when they were aliue IT is sufficiently proued against you of the Papistrie that all they whome we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen are members of the same mysticall bodie of Christ that we are and hold the onely foundation that we hold which is Iesus Christ and although some of them builded straw and stubble vpon the same foundation yet the Lorde hath not imputed it vnto them But wheras the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles were cheefe lightes and pillers of the church of Christ the daye is yet to come and euer shal be that all you of the Papistrie shal be able to charge vs with one pointe of our faith contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles 3 Or canonized and allowed for Sainctes by the Protestantes Church when they were deade or by any other Church then I recant OVr Church doth take all them that shew the fruicts of a liuely faith to be Sainctes while they be aliue as well as after their death and we say with Dauid All my delight is in the Sainctes that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paule VVe labour to comprehend with all Sainctes what is the length breadth depth and heigth and to know the loue of christ Ephes. 3. Finally the scripture teacheth vs to call all them that are sanctified in the bloude of Christ and called to the felowship of the Gospell holy and Sainctes of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes. 1. c. Wherefore your Popish church doth great iniury to the Sainctes of God first because she doth not so accompt them while they liue and secondly because she referreth the canonization of them only to the Pope who not for their holy life maketh them Sainctes but for the holy honger of golde as appeare by Pope Iuly 2. who woulde not canonize king Henry the sixt at the request of king Henry the seuenth vnder an vnreasonable summe of money If that summe of money had bene paide he shoulde haue bene a sainct though he had not deserued not for his vertue And because that summe of money was not paide he might not be canonized although his godlinesse neuer so much deserued Againe of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed we may learne by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned digged vp and burned the bodie of Hermannus in Ferraria 30. yeares after his buriall who had bene worshipped for a sainct aboue 20. yeares before as witnesseth Platina and other Gregorie the seuenth canonized Pope Liberius which was an Arrian as S. Hieronym testifieth Moreouer if I shoulde likewise demande of you what Pope canonized Peter Paule and the rest of the Apostles yea most of the Martyrs of the primitiue Church you shall neuer be able to shew me either what Pope did it or that any Pope did it For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church and you can not proue that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and cheefe Martyrs you can not proue that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principall Martyrs But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome which chalenged authority to make Gods whome they them selues thought best And if I shoulde rippe vp the most parte of those Sainctes which haue bene canonically canonized by the Pope it were an easie matter to finde them heretikes traitors Necromancers Whoremongers and whores as you may reade in Bales Votaries aboundantly beleuing his reporte no farther than he alleageth his Author where you maye finde it Wherefore it were wisedome for you not to depend vpon the Pope his Canonization but vpon God his approbation and to recante The 8. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 And because Christ as S Paule sayeth hath established in his Church some Apostles some Prechers some Teachers and Doctors euen vntill his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is able to shew proue the continuance and vse of the saide functions euer sence Christes time by plaine accompt of orderly Succession I Aunswere the Papist that Christ hath geuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastors and Teachers Ephes. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to shew proue that we continue in that vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God for which ende such offices were ordeyned But whereas you require that we should shew you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christes his time vntill our dayes you declare how small skill you haue in vnderstanding the scriptures for the offices of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes were not appoincted to continue alwayes in the Church but for a time vntill the Gospell had taken roote in the worlde Moreouer whereas you requier an orderly succession according to persons or places you are neuer able to proue that any such thing was promised to the Church that we should shew you the performance thereof in our Church Otherwise we doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie poinctes of Christian Religion Although the worlde and the church of Antichrist did not alwayes see them 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages the notable personnes of all the forsaide states in their gouernment and ministerie AGaine I answere you that you are not able to name me any text of scripture by which you can proue that al these offices must haue perpetual cōtinuance in the church of Christ nor yet that any of them should kepe an ordinarie succession of place or persons But contrariwise seeing it was prophecied that the church should flie into the wildernes that is be driuen out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season it were a token our church were not the true
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
hearte or eare coulde abide these blasphemous tonguesâ— who of vntolerable arrogancy doe so deface the examples and doctrine not onely of the pillours of the whole Christian Church whome they impudently for lacke of a more reasonable aunswere condemne not onely of simple ignoraunce and errour in this point with the residue of the whole faithfull people which surely is ouer much to say of such learned and godly men as they were but also of wilfull errour and superstition in bearing and maintenaunce of the common ignoration and ethnicke perswation of the worlde in their dayes and following the heathen vsage of the gentilitie And yet not content therewith these lying maisters of their meere mercy be content to offer a pardon to the author of that booke for his errour which booke the whole catholike Church of God through out Christiandome taketh for canonicall scripture VVhich arrogancy and passing boldnesse although I perswade my selfe no vertuous man will in them allowe sith they nowe being put to their shiftes vtterly doe condemne those fathers whose names with great oftentation they often to the simple repeate to make them suppose they be not with out scripture or doctors for the proofe of their willfull heresies yet euen the very aâ—nswere it selfe which they imagine here in to disgrace the doctors and delude the ignoraunt is contrary to it selfe in sundry points For they one while affirme that S. Augustine and others allowed that errour which the people by their superstitious deuotion had before their time brought in to the prayers of the Church and an other while that Iudas Machabaeus did institute it who was before these authors diuars hundreths of yeares and somewhile that they borowed it of the gentilitie all which pointes be repugnant eche to other For neither coulde that beginne in our Christian doctours dayes which was vsed before Christes birthe neither neede they to borowe it of the heathen which was in estimation and praysed amongest the Iewes 9 We neede no shiftes M. Allen for the authoritie of the doctors whome we neuer allow for canonicall Scriptures and therefore we may boldly say as Augustine sayth of Cyprian what so euer we find in them agreable to the Scriptures we receaue it with their prayse and what so euer is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leaue Now by what meanes they fell into this errour that maintained prayer and almes for the dead I shal haue better occasion to shew in the aunswere to the 14. chapter although it be not greatly material to know how they came into errour when it is sufficiently proued that they did erre As for the abridgement of Iason the Cyrenians story which M. Allen maketh such a precious iewell I haue aunswered inough before that the author him selfe desiring pardon of his readers hath testified sufficiently that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost as also by many other vnauoydable reasons with the consent of the Catholike Church which it were superfluous here to repete Finally whereas you say that our aunswere is contrary to it selfe you seeke a knot in a rush For all may be true First the deuill suggested superstitious deuotion into the Gentiles by peruerse emulation of whom Iudas might be deceiued and his fact giue occasion to the ignorant people of errour and their ignorance first winked at because it had a shew of pietie confirmed by custome might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who neuer weighed the matter by Scriptures but by the commoÌ„ practise And this I thinke is the right degree of prayers for the deade and purgatory That the praying for the dead vvas appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiesty of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries CAP. XIII 1 BVt that this falshood may better appeare in these men we will by good testimony trye out when and by whom the oblation and sacrifice with other ordinarie reliefes of the departed were so vniformely vsed through the Christian worlde as like wise it shall be profitable to consider who were the first authors of the contrary opinions And that the holy Ghost by the Apostles owne preaching and prescription was the first author of this solemne supplicatioÌ„ in masses of all vsages for the departed I might first proue by this generall rule of S. Augustine Quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia nec concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate apostolica traditum rectissime credimus that which the whole Church obserueth and hath alwayes so bene kepte being not instituted by any Councell it can not otherwise be had but by the Apostles authoritie and tradition And so by the like saying of Leo the greate Dubitandum non est quicquid in ecclesia in consuetudinem est deuotionis retentum de traditione apostolica de S. Spiritus prodire doctrina It can not be doubted but that what so euer is in the Church by generall custome of deuotion kept and mainteined it came out of the Apostles traditioÌ„ and doctrine of the holy Ghost But I will seeke with them by certaine demonstration and plaine ordre of reason that it must needes so be Praying for the deade was inuented by no man sith the Apostles dayes there can no one be named by the aduersary before whome I can not name an other that praide for the dead Let him say where he list this man or that man was the first that euer praide for the deade in Christes Church if I can not shewe an other before him so named to haue praide also we will take him for the first author and then he fully stoppeth our course that we can not bring this obseruation so high as the Apostles dayes But if the aduersary can apoint me out no time nor person that began this vsage before which I am not able to proue it was practised then they can not let vs but we must needs driue it vpwarde to the Apostles and Christes owne institution CAP. XIII 1 IF prayer for the deade was appoynted by the Apostles commaundement why is there neuer a worde thereof in their writinges there is warrant â—or lesser matters then this is made of why is this and all other popish trash counted their tradition which can not be warranted by their writing If I were disposed to pose you this question would make you clawe your poll an hundred times before you could imagine any couloâ—able aunswere for right aunswere you shall neuer be able to make But I take not vpon me to pose but to aunswere first your authoritie of Augustine serueth not your turne for prayers for the deade haue not bene alwayes obserued namely in the Apostles times nor long after The saying of Leo the great may be backed with the writing of Leo the great Epi. 10. Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendum veritatem aliquo impediuntur
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vniâ—ate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16. chapter Sed vtril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatuâ— for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church â–ª but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church â–ª what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valens it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for
purged of the smaller spottes which sticke by him In the same sense doth Theodoretus both expounde the wordes of the Apostle and vtter his iudgement of Purgatory also and almost the rest of all the Latine or Greeke writers which my purposed breuitie with plentifull proofe otherwise forceth me to leaue to the studious reader 3 Next ensueth the authoritie of Ieronym or Bede or perhaps neither of them both but yet of some olde writer which holdeth that from light sinnes men may be absolued after their death by paynes prayers almes or masses This was a writer for M. Allens tooth but neither of antiquitie nor credit sufficient to cary away this cause The iudgement of Oecumenius and Theodoretus though they were writers about that time when corruption of doctrine had greatly preuailed yet are they not cleare for popish purgatory which the greeke Church although they pray for the dead yet would neuer agree to acknowledge 4 One place more I will onely adde out of Remigius because he learnedly may knit vp the place by ioyning both the Prophet and Apostles wordes together vpon which we haue stand so longe Thus that good author writeth Ipse enim quasi ignis conflans peccators exurens Ignis enim in conspectu eius ardebit in circuitu eius tempestas valida Hoc igne consumūtur lignum foenum stipula Nec solum erit quasi ignis sed etiam quasi herba fullonum qua vestes nimium sordibus infectae lauantur Porro his qui grauiter peccauerunt erit ignis conflans exurens illis vero qui leuia peccata commiserunt erit herba fullonum Hinc per Isaiam dicitur si abluerit dominus c. Qui enim habent sordes leuium peccatorum spiritu iudicij purgantur qui vero sanguinem habent hoc est grauioribus peccatis infecti sunt spiritu ardoris exurentur purgabuntur Et sedebit conflans emundans argentum colabit eos quasi aurum argentum hoc est intellectum colloquium vt quicquid mixtum est stanno vel plumbo camino domini exuratur quod purum aurum est argentum remaneat Et purgabit filios Leui In filijs Leui omnem sacerdotalem ordinē intelligimus a quibus iudicium incipiet quia scriptum est tempus est vt iudicium incipiat a domo dei alibi à sanctuario meo incipite Si autem sacerdos flammis purgandus est colandus quid de caeteris dicendum est quos nullum commendat priuilegium sanctitatis These golden wordes haue this sense He shall come as the goldesmithes fire burning sinners For in his sight a flame shall rise and a mighty tempest rounde about him by which fire our woodde hay and stooble shall be wasted and worne away VVith that he shall be like the clensers herbe whereby garments very much stained be purged To all those that haue greuously offended he wil be a burning and melting fire but to the light sinners he shall be as the washers herbe VVhich difference the prophet Esay noteth thus If our Lorde wipe away the filthe of the daughters of Syon and bloude from the middest of Israel in the spirite of iudgement and fire For such as haue onely the spottes of veniall sinnes they may be amended by the spirite of iudgement but men of bloude to witte the more greuous offenders must be tried by fire And he shall sit casting and purifying siluer and shall purge men as golde and siluer be purified that is to say our thoughtes understanding and wordes from impurity and vncleannesse as from pewter and leade by Gods fornace shall exactly be purged and nothing shall be left but as pure as golde and fine siluer And he shal purge the sonnes of Leui that is the ordre of priesthood where this heuy iudgement shall first begin For so it is writtē Time is now that iudgemēt begin at the house of God and againe Begin at my sanctuary If the priest must be purged and fined what shall we deme of other whome priuilege of holy ordre doth not commende or helpe thus farre goeth the author in conference of diuerse scriptures VVho with the rest of al the holy fathers that compassed their senses within the vnity of Christes Church hath founde by euident testimony of sundry scriptures the paines of purgatory which the busy heades of our time by vaine bragging of scriptures in singular arrogancy of their owne wittes can neuer finde 4 Last of all here is vaunt made of the testimony of Remigius as though he were a new author and perhaps M. Allen in his notes founde him so but it is nothing else but the saying of Ieronym almost word for word vppon 3. Malach 3. which before we haue shewed sufficiently to be mēt of the iudgement that Christ should exercise by his doctrine at his first comming and nothing at all pertayning to purgatory And therefore these golden words as you cal them M. Allen haue a leaden exposition when they be drawne from the preaching of the Gospell to the mayntenance of purgatory A further declaration of this pointe for the better vnderstanding of the doctours vvordes VVherein it is opened hovv purgatory is ordeined for mortal sinnes hovv for smaller offences vvho are like to feele that griefe vvho not at all CAP. IX 1 ANd I thinke they now haue small aduantage by the exception of Origens testimony by occasion whereof such light is founde for our cause that we now by goodly authority haue both founde the placies alleaged plainely to proue purgatory and also what sinnes it namely purgeth and what men after their death may be amended thereby That not onely the bare trueth but some necessary circumstances to the studious of the trueth haue bene here by iust occasion opened and all errour wholy remoued Except this point may somewhat stay the reader that heareth in some places the paines of Purgatory to be both a punishment for greuous sinnes and a purgation of lighter trespasses with all and yet that it now may appeare the contrary by the minde of some learned authors who expressely make that paine as a remedy onely for veniall sinnes and not to apperteine at all to the capitall and deadely crimes that man often times doth commit Therefore to be as plaine as may be necessary for the vnlearned or any other that is godly curious in things much tending to the quiet rest of mans conscience it is to be noted that this ordinary iustice of God in the life following for the purgation of the elect can not discharge any man of mortall sinne which was not pardoned before in the Church militant vppon earth And therefore what crime so euer deserueth damnation and was not in mans life remitted it can not by purgatory paines be released in the next because it deserueth death euerlasting and staieth the offender from the kingdome of heauen for euer no peine temporall in this
ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est pro eo quod veritas dicit Si quis in sancto Spiritu blasphemiam dixerit neque in hoc saeculo remittetur ei neque in futuro In qua sententia datur intelligi quasdam culpas in hoc saeculo quasdam in futuro posse relaxari quod enim de vno negatur consequens intellectus patet quia de quibusdam conceditur sed tamen vt praedixi hoc de paruis minimisque peccatis fieri posse credendum est For certaine small sinnes that there is a purgatory fire before the daye of iudgement we must needes beleue because the trueth it selfe vttered so much in these wordes If any sinne against the holy Ghost it shall not be remitted neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come By which sentence it is geuen vs to vnderstande that as some offensies be released in this worlde so there may some other be remitted in the life following For that which is denyed in one sorte the meaning is plaine that of some other kinde it must needes be graunted But as is saide before this is onely to be taken of lighter offensies thus farre spake S. Gregory and proueth learnedly beside by examples and sondry Scriptures through out the whole worke our matter If our aduersaries woulde with desire to learne as they commonly do to reprehend reade but his discourse onely they might quickely see their owne foly and amende their misbelefe They call him the last good Pope as he was in deede a blessed man and by his authority the perfect conuersion of our nation to Christes faith was wrought I woulde his holy workes deserued but as much credit now with certaine forsakers as his Legates then did with all the vnfaithfull people of our countrie But to go forwarde in our matter we shall finde in S. Bernarde the same wordes of our Sauiour alleaged for our purpose thus Non credunt ignem Purgatorium restare post mortem sed statim animam solutam a corpore vel ad requiem transire vel ad damnationem quaerant ergo ab eo qui dixit quod dam peccatum esse quod neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro remittetur cur hoc dixerit si nulla maner in futuro remissio purgatione peccati They beleue not sayth he by some heretiques of his owne time that there is any purgatory paines remaining after death but they suppose that the soule straight vpon departure hense goeth either to rest or damnation let such fellowes aske therefore of him that saide a certaine greuous crime coulde neither be forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to come why he so saide if there were no remission nor purgation of sinnes in the life following thus said Bernarde opening his graue iudgement both vpon the text and our matter whose authority if any esteme lesse because of his late writing let him know that the aduersaries haue none for their side so auncient by C C C. yeare except they name the heretike Aërius or such like whose antiquitye maketh not so much for them as his auncient condemnation for heresie in this poynt maketh against them 2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth that he hath no grounde in the authority of Gods word and therefore he flyeth to the authority of man But that he might seeme to be driuen perforce to that where vnto he doth come most willingly he pretendeth a fonde excuse because he hath to doe with such fickle marchaunts as wil not sticke to breake boldly the bands of euident Scriptures But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authoritye of Scripture to charge vs for if he thought we would breake the bonds of Gods word he might well thinke we would not be holden by the authoritie of mens writing and those of the latter sort six hundreth yeares after Christ the eldest For Augustine makeâ—h as litle for them as he doth against vs Gregory and Bernarde whereunto he addeth Bede are of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world may be remitted in the world â—o come but how hapneth it that Chrysâ—stome and Ieronym which both interpreted that place could gather no such matter although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead The reason must needes be because the errour of purgatory growing so much the stronger as it was nerer to the full reuelation of Antichrist Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture but the confirmation of their pausible error M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authoritie of Gregory because we mâ—slike not his authority where he inueigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop aboue all other or where so euer he agreeth with the truth But he must be once againe admonished that we are bound to no mannes authoritie no longer then he followeth the authoritie of Gods word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops in whom was any sparke of goodnes because Boniface his successor and so all the rest by Gregoryes owne iudgement prophecy were all Antichristes yet is not all that Gregory writte of equall authoritie with the word of God without authoritie whereof we beleue not an Angell from heauen as I haue often shewed much lesse a Bishop of Rome 3 But that in the mouth of two or three witnesses all trueth may appeare and contrary falsehood vanish away S. Augustine him selfe gathered by this place now alleaged euen then when he had no occasion geuen him by the wrangling of any misbeleuer to wreast any scripture otherwise then the very wordes imported the trueth of remission of certaine faultes in the next life in these wordes Facta resurrectione mortuoruÌ„ non deerunt quibus post poenas quas patiuntur spiritus mortuorum impertiatur misericordia vt in ignem non mittantur aeternuÌ„ neque enim de quibusdam veraciter diceretur quod non eis remittetur neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro nisi essent quibus etsi non in isto tamen remittetur in futuro There shall be certaine at the time of resurrection also who shal obteine mercy after they haue suffered such paines as deade mens ghostes do abide that they be not cast into the euerlasting fire for els it coulde not in any true sense be spoken that certaine shoulde neither haue pardon in this worlde nor in the worlde to come except there were some that speeding not of pardon in this life might yet haue remission in the next so sayth he Being I warraunt you so sadde witted and so farre from phantasies that he would not grounde any assured doctrine vpon euery light occasion offered or motion made had not the very words and forme of phrase approued it and Gods Church liked it Hauing then these graue fathers with others for our warraunt in the exposition of this place we do take it for a sure grounde that the paine of purgation in the next worlde
should pray yet she should not be heard euen of men remayning in this life your second reason as I conceiue it is that so long as men are in â—his world they may repent then sinne is not to death Therfore S. Iohn meaneth that they that dyed without bond of deadly sinne are to be prayed for your antecedent as before is false for the Apostle to the Hebrewes the sixt chapter sheweth that there be some which sinne so horribly in this life that it is vnpossible for them to be renewed by repentaunce So that your exposition being both voyd of authoritie and contrary to the manifest word of God of none that is wise or godly can be receiued Beside this the whole context of S. Iohns wordes doe plainly declare that he speaketh of prayers for the brethern that are liuing and not for them that are dead But I am to blame to spende so many wordes in a matter so manifest If the holy Ghost had euer allowed prayer for the dead he would once at the lest haue vttered the same plainly in holy canonicall Scriptures But Tertullian as wise a man as M. Allen affirmeth as we heard before that prayer for the deade hath no foundation in the Scriptures 2 To this place also S. Augustine disputing in his booke de ciuitate dei that praiers profiteth not all men departed alludeth or rather leaneth vnto it as a sure grouÌ„d against the Origenistes that woulde haue Gods mercy by mans prayers obteined for the wicked soules deceased after this sort Si qui autem vsque ad mortem habebunt cor impoenitens nec ex inimicis conuertuntur in filios numquid iam pro eis id est pro talium defunctorum spiritibus orat ecclesia cur ita nisi quia iam in parte diaboli computantur qui dum essent in corpore non sunt translati in Christum If there be any that till death continue in stubborne impenitency of hearte and of enemies to Gods Church will not be made children doeth the Church make intercession for such that is to say for the soules of them being departed in that state and why prayeth she not for them but because they be nowe reckoned for the deuills lot being deade that woulde not moue to Christes part when they were in their bodies And this is the cause that for such as in desperatioÌ„ destroy them selues by any kind of wilfull or violent death or in the stubborne maintenance of heresie offer them selues to be extirpate as well out of the society of mans life as out of the coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Christian company our holy mother the Church who by her practise is the best construer of Gods worde neuer vseth any meanes for their quiet rest VVheron there is a holy decree of Councell in this sense qui sibi ipsis quolibet modo culpabili inferunt mortem nulla pro illis fiat commemoratio neque cum psalmis sepeliantur All those that by any vnlawfull way procure their owne death let no commemoration be had of them nor be brought home with psalmes The which hath ben both diligently obserued euer amongest Christians and for terrour of the wicked often by holy Canons renewed VVherof there is no other cause but this that such persons being at the ende cut of the common bodie can receiue no vtility of that where vnto they are not nor now can not be ioyned And as in that case where Gods Church hath plaine presumption of any persons euerlasting perishing either by continuance in infidelitie out of her happy family or by heresie and separation of him selfe till the last ende leaping out of her holy lappe where he once was before or being and continuing with some open euidence thereof an vnprofitable membre and a deade branche as I saye in any plaine proofe of these thinges the Church neuer practiseth for his rest because she neither hath hope of getting any grace nor meanes to conuey any benefite vnto such as be not in the limmes of life so if our saide carefull mother doe bestow of her customable kindnesse all her godly meanes vpon those whome she knoweth not otherwise but in finall piety and penitence to haue passed this life and yet in deede before God to whome onely all secrets of mans hearte be perfectly open dyed as abiectes and outcastes in sinne and impenitencie she can not for all that any whit helpe their estate so miserable nor appeace Gods wrath towarde them being now out of the time of deseruing out of the Churchies lappe effectually and finally separated from the chosen people and out of the compaesse of grace and mercie Much lesse any priuate mans prayer can be any thing at all beneficiall to his freinde or other that dyed not in Gods fauour whose payne can neither be finished nor by any of these ordinary meanes one moment released or lessened Yet euery good faithfull person must imitate the diligence of Gods Church herein that ceaseth not both to offâ—â— and pray for all sortes with in her limites that be hense in any likelyhood of repentaunce departed who hadde rather they shoulde abounde to the needelesse then at any time lacke for the reliefe of such that might wante them 2 All this discourse is needelesse to proue that prayers profit not the infidels or the impenitent against them that beleue that the soules of the faithfull the repentant are where Christ is as he prayeth Ioan. 17. Father I will that those whome thou hast gyuen me where I am they also maye be with me that they may see my glory And euen so he sayeth to the theefe no perfect iuste man but a sinner repentant This daye thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luke 23. And S. Paule desireth to be dissolued and to be with Christ Philip. 1. This is the fayth of the Church of Christ and these be the groundes of our fayth voide of all doubtfulnesse obscurity sophistry and variable sentence of deceiuable men builded vpoÌ„ the certaine foundation of the eternall word of God The authoritie of Augustine proueth that the Church prayed not in his time for the spirits of infidells But the Councell Bracharense as afterwarde I shall more plainely shewe doth insinuate that no prayers were made at all for the soules of the departed in their Church at their burialls but onely a remembrance of them in prayers with thankesgeuing and singing of Psalmes For purgatory shoulde seeme had not yet trauelled into spaine But touching this assertion of M. Allen that those which dye out of the fauour of God as infidells and such like are not to be prayed for whose payne can neither be finished nor one moment released or lessened by any of these meanes what saye you then to Gregory the first byshop of Rome which with his vehement prayer as your owne Damascene and many others doe witnesse deliuered the soule of Traianus the heathen Emperour from Hell whereof there riseth a great controuersie among your doltish
vnapte to receiue comforth thereby yet these holy appointed remedies are both comfortable and meritorious to the geuers and procurers as blessinges which are not lost but turne againe to the bestowers For the profit of other or the onely will to relicue other is a singular deserte and meanes of merite to a mans selfe Full truely saide Damascene that this carefull helpe seruing of others mens lackes is much like to the paine which one taketh in anoynting with a precious baulme an other mans body which as he tempereth in his hande to bestowe vpon an other it first redoundeth in verdure and vertue to him selfe and then passeth by him to the vse of his neighbour for whome principally it was prepared 3 These matters stand all vpon a false supposition that any prayers are auailable for the deade which when it can not be proued it is in vayne to shewe who taketh profit by them who not who more and who lesse and what becommeth of those prayers that be offered for either them that neede no helpe or that can not be helped We learne out of Gods worde that what so euer we doe pray for according to Gods will we shall obteyne 1. Iohn 5. therefore this one hatchet shall cut asunder all these knottes prayers for the dead are not according to the will of God and therfore they are not heard at al for immediatly after death as M. Allen him selfe confesseth followeth iudgement but prayers eyther neede not or boote not when the party is eyther acquited or condemned by the sentence of the iudge which as Augustine sayth can not be indifferent betwene rewarde punishment De libero arbitrio lib. 3. cap. 23. 4 But notwithstanding this free procurement and liberall graunt of common helpes in the departeds case euen there where it is vncertaine whether they take effect or no the Church yet doth not onely absteine from sacrifice and request for such as doe openly appeare to sinne vnto death as the Apostle sayth but some times for punishment of certeine contemptes and disobedience in some persons she forbeareth these meanes euen there where she might proffet the departed peradueÌ„ture cleane discharge him of sinne and paine with all VVhich she doth by merueillous graue authoritie to the great terror of offenders That by the greuous punishment of certaine many might learne to be carefull and wise Greate is the authoritie of Gods ministers suerly and heuy is their hand often vpon sinners alwayes to edifie and neuer to deâ—troie VVhat a straunge force had Peters wordes that droue â—owne to death for dissimulation man and wife almost both at a lappe what a horrible dreadfull iudgement practised Paule â—n geuing vp some to Satan him selfe for sinne howe sharply â—id the primitiue Church execute iudgement vpon greuous ofâ—enders whome some times after many yeares separation from the comfortable receiuing the sacraments they woulde hardely admit at their last ende to the fellowship therof But no where could the maiesty of Gods Church appeare with more terrour then in this case when she dischargeth certaine for their punishment of all common helpe by prayers oblation and sacrifice after their departure though they otherwise dyed in the fauour of God as I take it might be of the chosen company that shall be saued And that punishment was nothing els but a keping of them in longer correction and paine for their sinne vnder Gods scourge in the next worlde for the admonishment of others in that case to beware whiles she would not vse her ordinary meanes for their release A notable example we haue thereof out of a Councell holden in Affricke the decree of which assemblie S. Cyprian him selfe with a practise in the execution thereof reporteth in the first booke of his epistles VVhere he willeth that one Victor who had made Geminus Faustinus being a priest against the ordre taken in the Councell of Aphrike the executor of his testament shoulde therefore haue no prayers of the clergie nor sacrifice after his departure saide or done for him For in that time of greate persecution such instant prayers so often sacrifice the scarsity of ministers the peoples necessity required that the priests shoulde perpetually with out all exception of worldly affayers serue the altar But you shall heare this blessed Martyrs or rather his wordes together with the Councells ordinaunce Victor cum contra formam nuper in consilio a sacerdotibus daâ—aÌ„ Geminum Faustinum presbyterum ausus sit actoreÌ„ constituere non est quò pro dormitione eius apud vos fiat oblatio aut deprecatio nomine eius in ecclesia frequentetur vt sacerdotum decretum religiose necessariò factum seruetur a nobis simul caeteris fratribus detur exemplum ne quis sacerdotes ministros dei altari eius ecclesiae vacantes ad seculares molestias deuocet In English thus Seeing Victor against the ordre taken of late in a holy Synode of priestes hath made Geminus Faustinus the cheefe doeâ— in the execution of his will and testament let it be prouided that there be no oblation there with you for his reste nor yet any prayers in his behalfe in the Church that the decree of the priestes before sayde maye be religiousely obserued and executed by vs That thereby all other our bretherne maye beware by his example howe they withdrawe suche as shoulde serue the authour to entangle them selues with worldely affaires 4 Now commeth a cumbersome case that whereas he had affirmed before in the beginning of this capter that there is no crime so greeuous that man may commit in the course of this life but the Church vseth prayers accustomably therefore in which affirmation he includeth sinne against the holy Ghost also nowe he findeth in Cyprian a place where prayers and sacrifice as he thinketh were denyed to him which had committed but a small fault in it selfe and such as Priestes doe now adayes commonly incurre namely to be an executer of mens testamentes But the matter seemeth to be farre otherwise then M. Allen doth take it Cyprian in the 6. Epistle of his first booke reporteth that there was a decree made in the assembly of the Church before his tyme that no brother departing out of this life should name any of the clergy to be his executor or ouerseer of his will. Ac si quis hoc fecisset non offerretur pro eo nec sacrificium pro dormitione eius celebraretur Neque enim ad altare Dei meretur nominari in sacerdotum prece qui ab altari sacerdotes ministros suos Leuitas auocare voluit ideò c. And if any had done so there should be no offering for him nor sacrifice for his falling a sleepe so they called departing out of this life should be celebrated For he is not worthy to be named at the aultar of God in the prayer of the Priestes which would call away his Priestes ministers the Leuites from the
lye in euery tryfling matter you are worthy to be deceiued And that you may see I doe him no wrong see I pray you how shamefully he lyeth in this matter whereof he maketh such impudent assurance He sayth the same men which brought in the fayth brought in the same order of seruice and planted the same supplication wherein they haue vniformly continued c take away the same order and ouerthrow the fayth which they taught But who doth not know that Chrysostom Basill Ambrose Gregory which he nameth to be the first auctors of those orders of seruice formes of supplication which before he commended were not the first that brought in the fayth into Cappadocia Thracia or Italy But the Apostles them selues and that those Churches continued more then 300. yeares with other formes of publike prayers and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne And where he sayth there was euer found in the celebration of the sacrament beside oblation of the host for the quicke and the deade both particularly and generally a solemne prayer for all departed in Christ You must take it as the rest of his assertions which be euer more generall then their probations But to reproue his vanitie the order of prayers and administration of the holy misteries described by Iustinus Martyr in his second Apologie and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico doe sufficiently declare what was the vsage of the Christians in those purer times And although there be not set forth vnto them what forme of wordes they vsed in their liturgie yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed Oramus etiam sayth Tertullian pro Imperatoribus pro ministris eorum potestatibus saeculi pro rerum quiete pro mora finis We pray also for the Emperours for their ministers and the powers of this world for the quiet state of thinges for stay of the end Likewise he sheweth to whom they made their prayers and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer Haec ab alio orare non possum quam à quo sciam me coÌ„secuturum quoniam ipse est qui solus praestat ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius qui eum solum obseruo qui ei offero opimam maiorem hostiam quam ipse maÌ„dauit orationem de carne pudica de anima innocente de spiritu sancto profatam These thinges I can not require of any other but of him of whom I know I shall obteyne For it is he alone which graunteth and I am he which should obteyne being his seruaunt which worship him onely which offer vnto him that principall and great sacrifice which he him selfe commaunded namely prayer proceding out of a chast body out of a harmeles soule and from the holy spirite This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles But that I may returne to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer and sacrifice for the deade to Christ at his last supper to the secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost to the faithfull deliuery of the Apostles and the constant continuance of all nations Of whom will he be a feard to lye when he fathereth such a blasphemy vpon the Apostles vpon the holy Ghost and vpon Christ him selfe But let vs consider your Sorites Christ you say no doubt did institute it where is the warraunt of this vndouted institution you aunswere secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost howe come we to the knowledge of this secrete suggestion By tradition of the Apostles who is witnesse that this is the tradition of the Apostles Tertullian Cyprian Augustine Ieronym and a great many more But if it be lawfull for me once to pose the Papistes as you do often the Protestants I would learne why the Lord would not haue this doubtlesse institution and as you take it the most necessary vse of the sacrament plainly or at least wise obscurely set foâ—th by Matthew Marke Luke or Paule which all haue set forth the story of the action of Christ the institution of the sacrament and the ende or vse of the same If it were not meete at all to be put in writing why was it disclosed by Tertullian Cyprian Augustine c. If it were meete to be put in writing why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew Marke Luke Paule worthy of all credit rather appoynted for it then Tertullian Cyprian Augustine and such as you name But against this counterfect institution secrete suggestion and fayned tradition S. Paule cryeâ—h with open mouth to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. That which I deliuered vnto vnto you I receiued of the Lorde that the Lord Iesus the same night c. In which wordes he declareth without couler or couerture what was the true institution of Christ of what witnesse he receiued it with what fidelitie he deliuered it what the sacrament is and what is the right vse of it to condemne all maner of abuses what so euer may rise either to corrupt this onely true substance and onely right order of ministration or to peruert this onely right vse and proper ende thereof I knowe the Papistes will flie to those wordes of the Apostle the rest I will set in order when I come but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comlines and not of doctrine of the sacrament as prayers and sacrifices that no man which vnderstandeth what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie can doubt or make any questioÌ„ of it Now touching the credit and worthynesse of these whom he so highly extolleth as I woulde not goe about to diminish it if they were to be compared with vs so when they are opposed against the manifest worde of God and the credit of the holy Apostles the instruments of the holy Ghost there is no cause that we shoulde be caried awaye with them But the controuersie is not as M. Allen sayth of the authoritie of the scriptures in this matter but of the true meaning of them which it is more like that they being such men then we so farre inferior to them should knowe I aunswere they them selues for the most parte confesse that prayer and oblation for the deade is not taken at all out of the scriptures as Tertullian Augustine and other the rest that woulde seeke confirmation in the scriptures as Chrysostome and such like doe so manifestly wrest them to their purpose that the Papistes them selues are ashamed to vse those textes of scripture for their proofes And as for such places as the later Papistes woulde violently draw vnto their error they haue fewe or none of the olde approued writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them as the place 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shamelesse creature is M. Allen to say the controuersie is about the true meaning of the scripture when he him selfe in the next leafe before affirmeth that prayer and
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
know that he despiseth being but a mortall fraile man the grauest iudgement that God hath left in earth for the determination of any matter Let him be ashamed that he being but one man taketh vpon him to controule diuers hundreths of the most chosen for vertue for learning for experience in the whole Church of God yea let him if he haue any affection of grace tremble and feare to deface the dealing of that honorable and vniuersall parlament that representeth vnto vs Gods holy whole Church hauing the assured promise of the holy Ghostes assistance for their guiding in all truth Yet I see before hand the aduersaries will not admitte the iudgemâ—â—t of these or any other Councells neither in such men doe I much maruell to finde so litle humility and so much impudency For all heretikes condemned by councells did euer condeÌ„ne as they could the same councells againe So were the first 4. councells which all Christian men with S. Gregory accept as the holy Gospells of God vtterly refused by the parties in them condemned The Arians by great force of worldly Princes and many assembles deuilishly withstoode the Councell of Nice the Macedonians reiected the councell of Constantinople the first the Nestorians nothing estemed the councell of Ephese Eutiches and Dioscorus litle regarded the councell of Chalcedon in which they their followers were condemned of heresie for sundry pointes which now were ouerlong and not for our purpose to rehearse Then by refusing the heauenly sentence of the Churches iudgement they win nothing else but the assured marke of an heretike They declare them selues that as they be in heresie as deepe as the best so they in pride and boldnes be not behind the worst But all Catholikes faithful beleuers as soone as they know the determination of such a number of so well learned fathers gathered in the vnitie of Gods Church and spirite streight way they receiue it and submit them selues as to the iudgement and reuelation of the holy Ghost For so the Christian brethren that were molested by the contentious clamors of certeyne troublesom heades at Antioch being once certified by the letters of that first Christian councel what was decreed and enacted concerning the matters called in question they then regarded no more what the aduersaries thought therein but out of hand Gauisi sunt super consolatione they reioysed in that comfort of their agreement And Ruffinus writeth that when Constantinus the great vnderstoode the determination of the doubtes proposed in the great councell of Nice he receiued it as the oracle of God Defertur ad Constantinum sacerdotalis concilij sententia ille tanquam a Deo prolatam veneratur the decree sayth he of the priestes was shewed to Constantine and he straight with all reuerence accepted it as Gods owne sentence And if our aduersaries coulde learne a litle humilitie they might quickely be dispatched of a great deale of heresie The which as it first beganne with the conceite of singularitie and contempt of other so it procedeth with maliperte boldnesse and endeth in plaine disobedience of the Church of the Councells of the scriptures and Gods owne spirite VVhome without moe wordes I woulde nowe geue ouer vnto God hauing as I trust already geuen them sufficient occasion by the euident proofe of my matter to remembre their misery and heuy condition but that I must remoue out of the simples waye such stoombling stockes as perhaps might somewhat trouble the vnlearned who for lacke of deepe iudgement be moste subiecte to the aduersaries deceites 2 It is true humilitie that all men should submit them selues to the authoritie of Gods worde and it is horrible presumption that any man or multitude of men shoulde take vppon them authoritie to define against the worde of god As the councell of Constance which decreeth in plaine wordes that notwithstanding Christ instituted the sacrament to be receiued in both kindes and that the faithfull in the primatiue Church did so receiue it yet the custome of the church of Rome shall preuaile and whosoeuer sayeth contrary is an heretike c. The councells that are receiued are therefore receiued because they decreed truely and not the trueth receiued because it was decreed in councells Else why is Nicene councel receiued and Arriminense reiected why is Ephesinum primum embraced and Ephesinum secundum detested Finally why is the determination of Nicene councell which is but one beleued against 10. councells holden by the Arrians but that the Nicene councell decreed according to the worde of God and all the rest against it wherfore if any councell decree according to the scriptures as the councell of the Apostles did Actes 15. and the councell of Nice with diuers other we receiue them with all humilitie as the oracles of god But if any councell decree contrary to the authoritie of the scriptures as many did without all presumptioÌ„ or pride we may iustly reiect them 3 And with such thus they lightely practise first by lofty lookes and high chalengies they crake and boste with passing boldnes that the learned men of the worlde the sage fathers of the auncient times all the graue Councells the whole vsage of the primitiue Church with plaine Scripture to be on their parte And as for the contrary teaching that it came in of late with the decay of learning and light of trueth in these barbarous times when superstition and daâ—ke ignorance had wasted the doctrine of the yeares past And in this bragge they stande till some Catholike man encounter with them By whome when they see them selues so driuen from the standinge which they kept with greate glory before that they must be wholy naked and destitute in the face of the worlde of all such helpes as they accompted to haue for the outwarde shew of their deceitfull doctrine then in plaine wordes they confesse their teaching not to hange on the antiquitie not on councells not on Doctors nor on any man but on Gods holy spirite and worde which can not deceiue them And so at the ende the olde vse of the primitiue Church the fathers and the generall Councells arrogantly contemned or rather vnworthely condemned marke well their prety conceites they make then a matche betwene them selues with Gods worde on the one partie and the doctors and fathers with out Gods worde on the other partie Affirming that they be not bounde to beleue them but where they agree with the scriptures of god And then turning their talke to the simple thus they preache vnto them by a captious and foolish demaunde whether they thinke it more reason or conuenient to beleue the scriptures or doctors the determination of the true and liuely worde of God or else the decree of a generall Councell which deceitfull wreasting of the state of our question somewhat troubles the vnlearned which can not perceiue hereby that they betray them selues and deface their owne doinges in so rude a defense For who seeth