thereof then the matter were not so great but in this we do forsake the first four General Councils which none ever forsook We renounce all Canonical and Ecclesiastical Laws of the Church of Christ we renounce all other Christian Princes we renounce the Unity of the Christian World I suppose he means by inventing to our Selves a Church of England divided from all the rest of the Christian World and so by leaping out of Peters Ship to be drowned in the unstable Waters of Heresie Sects Schisms and Confusions For the first General Council of Nice acknowledged Sylvester the Bishop of Rome his Authority to be over them by sending their Decrees to be ratifyed by him The Council of Constantinople did acknowledge Pope Damasus to be their Chief by admitting him to give Sentence against the Hereticks Macedonius Sabellius and Eunomius The Council of Ephesus acknowledged Pope Celestine to be their chief Judge by admitting his Condemnation upon the Heretick Nestorius The Council of Calcedon acknowledged Pope Leo to be their chief Head and all General Councils of the World ever acknowledged the Pope of Rome only to be Supream Head of the Church under Christ And now shall we set up another Head or one Head in England and another in Rome 3. We deny all Ecclesiastical Laws which do wholly depend upon the Authority of the Apostolick See of Rome 4 We renounce the Judgment of all other Christian Princes whether they be Protestants or Catholicks Nay by this argument Nero and Herod must have been Heads of the Church of Christ The Emperour must be Head of the Protestant Church in Germany And the Church of Christ must have never a Head at all till about three hundred years after Christ Fifthly The Kings Majesty is not susceptible of this Donation Ozias for medling with the Priests Office was resisted by Azarias thrust out of the Temple and told that it belongs not to his Office. Now if the Priest spake truth in this then is not the King to meddle in this business if he spake amiss why did God plague the King with Leprosie for this and not the Priest King David when the Ark of God was bringing home did he place himself in the head of the Priests Order did he so much as touch the Ark or execute any the least Office properly belonging to the Priestly Function or did he not rather go before and abase himself amongst the people and say that he would become yet more vile so that God might be glorified All good Christian Emperors have evermore refused Ecclesiastical Authority for at the first General Council of Nice certain Bills were privily brought unto Constantine to be ordered by his Authority but he caused them to be burnt saying Dominus vos constituit c. God hath ordained you Priests and hath given you Power to be Judges over us and therefore by right in these things we are to be judged by you but you are not to be judged by me Valentine the Good Emperor was desired by the Bishops to be present with them to reform the Heresie of the Arrians but he answered Forasmuch as I am one of the Members of the Lay people it is not lawful for me to define such Controversies but let the Priests to whom God hath given the charge thereof assemble where they will in due Order Theodosius writing to the Council of Ephesus saith It is not lawful for him that is not of the holy Order of Bishops to intermeddle with Ecclesiastical matters And now shall we cause our King to be Head of the Church which all good Kings have abhorred the very least thought of and so many wicked Kings have been plagued for so doing Truly my Lords I think they are his best Friends that disswade him from it and he would be the worst enemy to himself if he should obtain it Lastly If this thing be farewel all Unity with Christendom for as that holy and blessed Martyr St. Cyprian saith all Unity depends upon that holy See as upon the Authority of St. Peters Successors for saith the fame holy Father all Heresies Sects Schisms have no other Rise but this that men will not be obedient to the chief Bishop and now for us to shake off our Communion with that Church either we must grant the Church of Rome to be the Church of God or else a Malignant Church If you answer she is a Church of God and a Church where Christ is truly taught his Sacraments rightly administred c. how can we forsake how can we fly from such a Church certainly we ought to be with and not to separate our selves from such a one If we answer The Church of Rome is not of God but a Malignant Church then it will follow that we the Inhabitants of this Land have not as yet received the true Faith of Christ seeing we have not received any other Gospel any other Doctrine any other Sacraments than what we have received from her as most evidently appears by all the Ecclesiastical Histories wherefore if she be a Malignant Church we have been deceived all this while and if to renounce the common Father of Christendom all the General Councils especially the first Four which none renounce all the Countreys of Christendom whether they be Catholique Countreys or Protestant be to forsake the Unity of the Christian World then is the granting of the Supremacy of the Church unto the King a renouncing of this Unity a tearing of the Seamless Coat of Christ in sunder a dividing of the Mystical Body of Christ his Spouse limb from limb and tayl to tayl like Sampsons Foxes to set the Field of Christs holy Church all on fire and this is it which we are about wherefore let it be said unto you in time and not too late Look you to that The End of the First Dialogue containing the History of the First Reformers and Anti-Reformers The Second treats of the Reformation it self and the natural Fruits thereof Jealousy and Distraction amongst the People Decay of Sincerity c. Now Reader wer't thou to choose thy Religion consider which of these two Guides thou wouldst follow Cranmer or the Bishop of Rochester the former having no Mission from Heaven nor major Vote of the Convocation to authorise his Reformation nor yet any great mind to dye a Martyr for the same the later frankly exposing his Life to Stemm that Inundation of Sacriledge Schism and Confusion that was breaking in anno 1535. FINIS
Dublin Castle Oct. 28. 1687. Let this Discourse be printed Tho. Sheridan By the Lords Diae Lunae 3. Januarii 1680. ORdered by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled That the Thanks of this House be given to Dr. Burnet for the great Service done by him to this Kingdom and the Protestant Religion in writing the History of the Reformation of the Church of England so truly and exactly And that he be desired to proceed in the perfecting what he further intends therein with all convenient speed Jo. Brown Cler. Parliamentorum By the Commons Jovis 23. Die Decemb. 1680. ORdered That the Thanks of This House be given to Dr. Burnet for the Book Intituled The History of the Reformation of the Church of England Will. Goldesbrough Cleric Dom. Com. Mercurii 5. Die Januarii 1680. ORdered that Dr. Burnet be desired to proceed with and compleat that good Work by him begun in Writing and Publishing The History of the Reformation of the Church of England Will. Goldesbrough Cler. Dom. Com. A REFORMED CATECHISM IN TWO DIALOGUES CONCERNING The ENGLISH REFORMATION COLLECTED For the most part Word for Word out of Dr. Burnet John Fox and other Protestant Historians PUBLISHED For the INFORMATION of the PEOPLE IN REPLY to Mas William Kings ANSWER to D. Manby's Considerations c. The FIRST DIALOGUE By Peter Manby D. of Londonderry Memento dierum antiquorum cogita generationes singulas interroga Patrem tuum annunciabit tibi Majores tuos dicent tibi Deut. 32.7 Printed by Nathaniel Thompson in the Old Spring-Garden 1687. TO THE READER Reader HE that would undertake to shew us a new or better way to Heaven then either we or our Forefathers have been acquainted with ought in all reason to recommend himself as the Apostles did by some other Authority then a bare pretence to Scripture which every body claims as well as he unless we would be tossed too and fro as Saint Paul speaks and carried about with every Wind of Doctrine with the various Lights of all Reformers Cranmer was this new undertaker who had neither Mission from Heaven nor consent of the English Bishops to Authorize his Reformation nor yet any great mind to dye a Martyr for the same as will appear in the ensuing History Now I pray observe these words of Mas William King page 21. of his Answer to Mr. Manby viz. We own what he contends for that both true Doctrine and external and lawful Mission are generally necessary to a regular Preacher of the Gospel and if either of these are wanting the Person is not to be received Here if it can be demonstrated that Cranmer had no Orders either as Priest or Bishop but only to celebrate Mass to preach the Doctrine of the Church of Rome to bind and absolve Sinners there is an end of the Controversie If he had no Mission at all to preach the Doctrine of XXXIX Articles then by Mas William King's own Confession he was not to be received And for this Reader be pleased to read from page 81. of this Catechism to page 91. And where he says page 25 of his Answer that Cranmer in all he did had the unanimous vote and consent of the major part of the Convocation the universal submission of the Clergy and approbation of the People c. And a little after but if the Clergy in a National Council and the people in obedience to them or from their own Inclinations did comply in earnest what an idle question is it for Mr. M. to ask by what Authority Cranmer condemned that Church from whom he received his Mission and Holy Orders when she concurred in all he did and approved nay made all the Alterations in her Liturgy Sacraments and Constitutions that were made Now if it appear that all the English Bishops except a very few during the Reign of Henry VIII were utterly against his pretended Reformation and that almost all the Bishops under Edward VI. were turned out of their Sees for dissenting from it and others substituted in their places what shall we think of Mr. Kings Confidence thus imposing upon his Readers What shall become of his Answer to Mr. M. the whole strength whereof depends upon these words that the major Vote of the Convocation concurred in all he did and approved all the Alterations that were made page 25. Read Burnet relating the concerns of the Church upon King Edward's Succession to the Crown and you shall find all affairs dispatch'd by the Privy Council and two Houses of Parliament the Bishops generally dissenting The Convocation says Heylin ad annum 1547. the first year of King Edward was not impowr'd to act in any publick business for ought appearing on Record Hist Reform p. 50. Third Edition And further Note what he says ad annum 1551. the fifth year of King Edward but notwithstanding the remove of so many Bishops there still remained one rub in the way which did much retard the Progress of the Reformation the Princess Mary having been bred up in the Romish Religion could not be won by any Perswasions to change her Mind c. page 102. Burnet says several of the Bishops under King Edward submitted to the Reformation against their Consciences Which only amounts to what I affirm in this Catechism that the Reformation was not the Act and Deed of the old Clergy but impos'd on the Nation by the Power and Interest of a few persons for their own advantage Let us imagine if the late Duke of Monmouth had prospered and then summoned an Assembly of the English Bishops to reform the Church as he and his Party had designed and they generally dissenting should carry all things by strong hand whether such a Reformation passing with the consent of a few Bishops and a few other Clergymen could be reputed the Act aod Deed of the Church of England But if you would see an Instance of Mr. Kings modest way of writing against the Pope and Church of Rome read pag. 35. of his Answer where he tells you of the Popes wicked Management of the Goods of the Church and giving the Patrimony of the Church to Lay-men to useless and idle Monks and Fryars c. And for an Instance of his Loyalty see page 37. where he excuses Cranmer for subscribing to a Letter for Excluding his lawful Sovereign the Princess Mary from Succession to the Crown It was a point of Law saith he in which Cranmer was not singular Mr. M. takes the liberty to question Queen Elizabeths Title and sure it was no greater fault in Cranmer to question Queen Marys after the Opinion of the Judges given against her mark that There is a great difference between Rebellion against the King of undoubted Title and being engaged on a side where the Title is really doubtful c. that is to say Cranmer was engaged on the side of Lady Jane Grey Queen Marys Title being really doubtful And why was it doubtful Mr. King gives you the
there hath been these Orders of Ministers in Christs Church Bishops Priests and Deacons which Offices were evermore had in such reverent estimation that no man by his own private Authority might presume to execute any of them except he were first called c. And Bishop Bramhall affirms with great assurance Among all the Eastern Southern and Northern Christians who make innumerable multitudes there neither is nor ever was one formed Church that wanted Bishops among all the Western Churches and their Colonies there never was one formed Church for 1500 years that wanted Bishops If there be any persons so far possessed with prejudice that they choose rather to follow the private dictates of their own Phrensy than the perpetual and universal practice of the Catholique Church enter not into their Secrets O my Soul. Bishop Bramhall Consecration of Protestant Bishops vindicated p. 431. of his Works printed at Dublin And you know the Church of Englands practice at this day which admits of no Calvinian Ministers into her Clergy without Episcopal Ordination NOTE Thus it appears by an Induction of all the several Denominations of Christians that in Cranmers opinion there could be no such National or Catholique Church extant upon the face of the earth anno 1556. as that which the Church of England defines Article 19th The visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithful men in which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same So that his saying I reverence the Authority of the Catholick Church was but an illusion or vain pretence to avoid the Censure of Heresie his Catholique Church at that time being like Terra incognita in our Maps not as yet found out What tolerable excuse Good Reader canst thou invent for this Reformer have Lutherans Papists Calvinists Anabaptists Socinians Greek Church c. all those things that of necessity are requisite to the preaching of Gods pure Word and due Administration of Sacraments according to Christs Ordinance If so then shew me a solid reason if thou canst why a Church of England man should not receive the Sacraments of all or any of these Sects If the Church of Rome have all those things that of necessity are requisite c. how or where shall Cranmer appear at the day of Judgment If she have not then how is she a Member of Christs visible Church as Protestants say she is A corrupt Member perhaps you will call her but if she wants any thing necessary or essential to a Christian Church she is no Member at all If she errs only in matters not Fundamental or non essential as is confessed by very learned Protestants she is secure still but thou art not secured from Schism If she holds all things necessary to Salvation and no Error that destroys the Christian Faith she may be saved and what more wouldst thou have But whether she does or does not hold any Errors destructive of Salvation I pray who shall be Judge Answer that short Question if thou wouldst say any thing to the purpose What Authority had Cranmer to call the Pope Antichrist more than the Pope had to pronounce him an Heretick He swore Obedience to the Pope which the Pope never did to him He divorced Queen Katherine styling himself Legatus a Latere as you may find in Burnet A. But he appealed to a General Council what did he mean by that B. Nothing but to divert the proceedings of the Court for he valued the Authority of General Councils as little as he did that of the Catholick Church A. Pray make that out B. Burnet acquaints you page 176. 1 Vol. He viz. Cranmer said some General Councils had been rejected by others and it was a tender point how much ought to be deferred to a Council And as all God's Promises to the people of Israel had this Condition implyed within them if they kept his Commandments so he thought the Promises to the Christian Church had this Condition in them if they kept the Faith Therefore says Burnet he had much doubting in himself as to General Councils and he thought that only the Word of God was the Rule of Faith which ought to take place in all Controversies of Religion This be said in the year 1534. NOTE The word of God admits of various Interpretations the Question is Who shall determine which is the true Interpretation a General Council or Cranmer 's private Spirit in Opposition to that Council But his Opinion of General Councils appears further from the XXI Article of the Church of England viz. General Councils when they are gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed by the Spirit and Word of God they may err and sometime have erred in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things Ordained by them as necessary unto Salvation have neither strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they be taken out of Holy Scripture NOTE But who shall take upon him to judge of the Decrees of General Councils whether they be Consonant to Scripture or not shall any single Person Or any particular Church Where is the Modesty of that Shall any inferiour Authority take upon it self to contradict or reverse the Decrees of a Superiour If so then why may not any single Minister or Bishop of the Reformed Church protest against the Judgment of a Protestant Convocation If he may not do it without Censure how shall the Church of England being but a particular Church take upon her self to damn and contradict the Faith of all the rest of the Christian World A. Shew me where she assumes any such Authority B. Read her XIX Article viz. as the Church of Jerusalem Alexandria and Antioch have erred so also the Church of Rome hath erred not only in their Living and manner of Ceremonies but also in matters of Faith. Then see the third part of her Homily against peril of Idolatry and observe these words So that Laity and Clergy learned and unlearned all Ages Sects and Degrees of Men Women and Children of whole Christendom an horrible and most dreadful thing to think have been at once drowned in abominable Idolatry and that by the space of eight hundred years and more NOTE Here the Doctrine of the Church of England that Christ had no Church upon earth for the space of eight hundred years and more before Cranmer The same Homily teaches further viz. and at the last the learned also were carried away with the publick Error as with a violent stream or flood And at the second Council of Nice the Bishops and Clergy decreed that Images should be worshipped and so by occasion of these stumbling Blocks not only the unlearned and simple but the learned and wise not only the People but the Bishops not the Sheep but also the Shepherds themselves who should have been Guides in the right way
cometh hurt to all men for it wearieth the stedfast troubleth the doubtful and ensnareth the weak and simple yet because he saith he is not bound to answer your Lordship sitting for the Popes Holyness because of a Premunire and the Word of God as he pretends I think good somewhat to say that all men may see how he runneth out of his race of Reason into the rage of common Talk. And as the King and Queens Majesty will be glad to hear of your most charitable dealing with him so will they be weary to hear the blundering of this stubborn Heretick And where he alledgeth Divinity minling fas nefásque together he should not have been heard For shall it be sufficient for him to alledge the Judge is not competent and shall we dispute contra cum qui negat principia Although there be here a great company of learned men that know it unmeet so to do yet have I here a plain Canon whereby he is convicted ipso facto The Canon is this Sit ergo ruinae suae dolore prostratus quisquis Apostolicis voluerit contraire Decretis nec locum deinceps habeat inter Sacerdotes sed exors à sancto fiat Ministerio c. He hath alledged many matters against the Popes Supremacy but maliciously Ye say that the King in his Realm is Supream Head of the Church Well Sir you will grant me that there was a perfect Catholique Church before any King was Christened Then if it were a perfect Church it must needs have a Head which must needs be before any King was member thereof For you know Constantinus the Emperor was the first Christian King that ever was and although you are bound as St. Paul saith to obey your Rulers and Kings have Rule over the People yet doth it not follow that they have Cure of Souls For à fortiori the Head may do what the Minister cannot do but the Priest may consecrate and the King cannot therefore the King is not Head of the Church And where the Apostles do call upon men to obey their Princes cui Tributum Tributum cui Vectigal Vectigal the Exhortation extendeth only to Temporal matters they perceiving that men were bent to Liberty and Disobedience were enforced to exhort them to Obedience and Payment of their Tribute And again where you say that the Bishop of Rome maketh Laws contrary to the Laws of the Realm that is not true for this is a maxim in the Law Quod in particulari excipitur non facit universale falsum And as touching that monstrous talk of your Conscience that is no Conscience that ye profess it is but privata Scientia and Secta As yet you have not proved for all your glorious Babble that by Gods Laws ye ought not to answer the Popes Holiness The Canons which be received in all Christendom compel you to answer And although this Realm of late time through such Schismatiques as you were hath exiled and banished the Canons yet that cannot make for you for you know your self that pars in totum nihil statuere potest Wherefore this Island being indeed but a member of the whole Church could not determine against the whole And the same Laws that were put away by Parliament are now received again by a Parliament having as full Authority now as they had then And these Laws will now that ye answer to the Popes Holiness Therefore by the Laws of this Realm ye are bound to answer him This was materially replied to Cranmers words that he would never consent that the Bishop of Rome should have any Jurisdiction in England Wherefore my good Lord all that this Thomas Cranmer I cannot otherwise term him confidering his Disobedience hath brought for his Defence shall nothing prevail with you Require him therefore to answer directly to your good Lordship command him to set aside his Trifles and to be obedient to the Laws and Ordinances of this Realm take witness here of his stubborn Contempt against the King and Queens Majesties and compel him to answer directly to such Articles as we shall here exhibit against him and in refusal your good Lordship is to excommunicate him Thus Dr. Story Fox page 654 655. NOTE Here his Fidelity to the Laws so long as they serve his turn the King Queen Parliament and Laws were then Popish He was for the Laws made by himself and the Duke of Somerset under the Childhood of Edward 6. A. Did he answer nothing further to the Charge of Heresie B. Nothing but this He pulled an Appeal out of his left Sleeve says Fox which he dellvered to the Court saying I appeal to the next General Council And further I intend to speak nothing against one holy Catholique and Apostolical Church or the Authority thereof the which Authority I have in great Reverence and whom my mind is in all things to obey pag. 663. 3 vol. The very words of his Appeal A. What did he mean by one holy Catholique Church B. His Definition of it you may find in the Thirty nine Articles of the Church of England which Articles were framed as Burnet thinks by him and Ridley and first published anno 1551. p. 166. 2. vol. The visible Church of Christ saith the 19th Article is a Congregation of faithful men in the which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments duly ministred aceording to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same Now in the year 1556. when Cranmer presented this Appeal there could not be in his opinion any such National or Catholique Church visible on the face of the Earth A. I pray make that appear B. By an Induction of all the Churches in the world that then professed themselves Christians as the Roman the Eastern the Church of England the Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. the Roman in his opinion was but the Synagogue of Antichrist The Greek Church consented with the Roman in most of the Doctrines controverted betwixt Papists and Protestants as the Sacrifice of the Mass Adoration of the Eucharist Veneration of Images Invocation of Saints Prayer for the Dead c. and do consent at this day The Church of England was then newly reconciled to Rome and Catholique Bishops restor'd to their own Sees by Act of Parliament The Lutherans did then and at this day adore a corporal presence in the Sacrament and therefore cannot be said in his opinion to have the pure Word of God preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs Ordinance The Calvinists had no Orders of Priests and Bishops consequently no Church at all A. How no Church at all for want of Priests and Bishops let that appear I pray you B. Read the Church of Englands Preface to the Form appointed by her for making and consecrating of Bishops Priests and Deacons and there observe these words viz. It is evident unto all men diligently reading holy Scripture and ancient Authors that from the Apostles time