Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all meÌ„ To the authority of yâ— church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chauÌ„ge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumeÌ„tes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thaÌ„ condemnation the thuÌ„derbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her couÌ„cel coÌ„maunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day wheÌ„ we shuld be preseÌ„t again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that couÌ„cel would haue geueÌ„ any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be preseÌ„tly heard and the tyme no longer proloÌ„ged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to sileÌ„ce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the coÌ„ference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opeÌ„ly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche coÌ„maunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also â—… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer seÌ„t froÌ„ other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might auÌ„swere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knoweÌ„ quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call froÌ„ on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one coÌ„ioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe choseÌ„ Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nuÌ„ber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying yâ— that church whiche is signifyed by IerusaleÌ„ toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and
a doubt but wil willingly submyt himself to her iudgemeÌ„t Nether doth it make agaiÌ„st vs that the church was afore the word For it is most certain that the word which afterwards was put in writing is much more auncient For by it was the church coÌ„ceued born bred But this saying of Austine is not to bee obâ—…ected that he wuld not beleue the scripture vnlesse the autoritie of the scripture moued him therto But we must vnderstand yâ— in that place Austine spake of himself as of a Maniche w e whose erroure he was once seduced I pray you if ther rise ani doubt of the truth of any writing to whoÌ„ go we to trie it but to yâ— coÌ„moÌ„ notary to whose custody al writiÌ„gs monumeÌ„ts are coÌ„mitted Neyther therfore doth it folow that the autority of the writyng depeÌ„deth on the witnes of the notarye For of it self it is true though no mortal maÌ„ beare witnesse hereof So truely must we answer theÌ„ which thynk yâ— the authoritie of the holy scripture dependeth vpoÌ„ the coÌ„stitutioÌ„s decrees of the church The decrees of of that couÌ„cels are manye tymes coÌ„trary in this question But all these things shal be more fullye opened in disputation consereÌ„ce I wil shewe only reason confirmed with the autority of certayn auncient allowed fathers Christ himself gaue so much authority to the doctrine of the prophets whom he had sent afore that by theyr witnesse he would confirme his doctrine Paul also suffred the ThessaloniaÌ„s so to do willed theÌ„ to searche the scriptures to know whether he had taught theÌ„ truly Ac. xvii c. xi Peter allowed that selfesame reason ii Peter ii d. xix They therfore which boast theÌ„selnes to be the vicars of Christ the successors of Peter Paule ought not to refuse yesame coÌ„ditioÌ„ Ca. ix li. ii Truely Ierome vpoÌ„ Hieremy sayth that nether the error of the fathers nor of our auncesters by the authority of the Scriptures is to be folowed ChrisoftoÌ„ vpon the .xxiiii. Chapter of Mathew the 49. Homelye erpounding thys place Those that be in Iury let them flye to the mouÌ„taynes sayeth that is those that be Christians let theÌ„ flye to the Scriptures And again Wherefore doth he in this tyme wil al Christians to fly to the Scriptures Bicause in thys tyme since heresy inuaded the churche there can be no other proofe of true Christendome neither any other refuge for Christians minding to knowe the true fayth but the diuine Scriptures For afore it appeared by many signes which was the church of Christ and whiche it of the Gentiles But now whosoeuer wil seke it can by no other meanes discerne which is the true church of Christe but onely by the Scriptures Also he saieth further If a maÌ„ therfore be wylling to knowe the true church of Christ howe should he know it in so great coÌ„fusyon but only by the Scriptures Yet further therfore the lord knowiÌ„g that ther shuld be so great coÌ„fusioÌ„ in the latter dayes therfore doth Christ coÌ„mauÌ„d the those that be in christianitye such as be willing to streÌ„gtheÌ„ theÌ„selues in 〈◊〉 faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…o other thing but the Scriptures Otherwise if they â—…pâ—…e any other changes they shal likely â—… 〈◊〉 â—…sh not vnderstaÌ„ding which is the true châ—…rch and so shal they faâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of defolatioÌ„ which 〈◊〉 yâ— holy places of the churche 〈◊〉 in his moralls writeth thus If whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle â—…ayth and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the worde of God whatsoeuer is besides Scripture inspired of God is â—…n Also in the Sermon of the confession of faith If God be faithful in al his words and hys commaundementes â—…me and stable for euer done in truth iustice to reiect any thing that is written or to bring in any thing not written is a sweruing from fayth manifest pride Thus much was spoken of the churche her signes authority and succession afore the Lordes and Bishops and diuerse other which heard thesame very attentiuely But bicause hys oration had bin already somewhat loÌ„g it semed good then to entreate nothing of the supper Wherfore Beza medestly excusyng hymself declaryng also that we wer ready to shew a reason of that article and as much as lay in vs to satisfy theÌ„ if they would commaund vs forthwith to doe it When Beza had ended the Cardynal beckned to Spensa to speak and to answere our reasons He protestyng with many woordes that he had long wyshed for this coÌ„ference disputatioÌ„ that he neuer lyked alwaies contrary to those cruel punishmeÌ„ts which had loÌ„g tymes bene vsed toward them answered that those thinges were true which we had sayd of the churche her sygnes and succession If we had so taught and spoken at the first we should neuer haue neded to haue come to this controuersy But whereas we spake of the callyng into the churche he muche maruelled by whose authoritye or by what callyng we entred into the churche and toke vpon vs to teache Forasmuch as we wer not instituted by any ordinaryes neyther they at any tyme had layd theyr handes vpon vs. And hereof he gathered yâ— we wer no good pastors For by ordinary meanes quoth he you wer not called and muche lesse by extraordinary For extraordinarye vocation must bee proued eyther by miracles as the callyng of Moses was who was raysed vp of God to delyuer his people or els by the witnesse of the scripture as the callyng of Iohn whose vocation is plainlye proued by a terte of Malachye you want bothe Whereof it foloweth that youre ministerye is vnlawfull But as concernyng tradytions and the interpretyng of the scryptures yf there ryse any controuersye we ought to referre it quothe he to the ordinary successours as those to whoÌ„ the holy ghost is promised and are appoynted of God for the same cause He brought foorth the exaumples of the olde Priestes and Leuites whiche in tymes paste in doubtful matters gaue the people couÌ„cel to whose iudgemente the people were so bounde to stande that from theyr decree it was not lawfull for them to swarue neyther on the ryghte hande neyther yet on the left And that we had many thinges by tradition whiche no manne doubtes of no not we oure selues As yâ— the father is without beginnyng the son equall in substance to him also that yong children ought to be Baptised that Mary was a virgin after her deliuerance such lyke So he affirmed that those thinges which are descended vnto vs from the auncient fathers albeit they bee not written yet are certainelye to be beleued and no lesse to be allowed than if they were confirmed by the authority of the Scriptures That whatsoeuer is decreed by generall councels is certain and that they can not erre in doctrine But as to that which is cyted out of Austine that the first counsels ar amended by the later that he said neuer
Sacramentes And we againe aske of hym by whom he was chosen and institute Whether by the voices of the elders of his church whether he were desyred of the people whether there wer any inquisitiō made of his life doctrine He woulde soone say yea But he wuld soone be proued alter Whereof we desier no other witnes thā their own cōsciece which heare vs know that whole matter perfectly If he would obsect against vs that we are no ministers because we wante the laying on of hands we would reply again that he is no bishop because in institutions of hym those things wer not obserued which are appointed for the chief substantiall poyutes by the law of god And when our talke wer more whether perhappes we would goe farther and say in this sort You boaste of the laying on of handes which whosoeuer lacketh you thynk no perfect minister what if you wante the two other points which are the chiefest Namely inquisition of lyfe learning the election of the elders of your church may ye not then much lesse thā we bragge of the name of a pastor It was decreed by the councel of Chalcedon that the ordynation of the bishop or prtest shoulde bee frustrate of no force which is not specially appointed to some one churche And forasmuche as they would haue it doyde to the iniury of hym that ordayneth it much more may we obiect thesame agaynst the bishop that thus reasoneth with vs inasmuch he is destitute of the two chiefest conditions prescribed by the apostle i. Tim. iii a. Titus i Another thyng also may bee added hereto which we speak vnwilling neuerthelesse we are enforced therto the euery man maye perceiue that this disputation of our vocation may not be touched with out great peril If we should ask of that same bishop who layde their hādes on him or whether he bought it not with money what would he aunswer He would deny that he bought it and he would say that those bishops layd hāds on him which had autority therto of the church Again if we should enquire how much his authoritie cost hym he would say he bought it not but yet he woulde confesse that he gaue some thousandes of crownes As though he shoulde saye I boughte not the bread but the corne wher with the bread was made This reasonyng if it should be parted by the autority of the coūcels canōs of the churches woulde shame a greate many byshops pastours And sure we would not enter therein least any man should be offēded therby Neyther wyll we yet touche it or sek◅ to reuenge oure selues only we mynde to shew y◠we dyd of late purposely answere shortly briefly to those thyngs y◠wer layd agaynst vs for that we woulde haue all gently and myldly handled But as for the Lords supper we spake more sparely therof bearyng with the infirmitte of some whiche not accustomed to that doctrine are wont to be offended assoone as they heare anye thing y◠is strange or vnwōted to thē And truly we had rather that thei thēselues shuld learne thesame out of the aunciēt writings of the Doctors of the church th◅ by vs which we hoped should haue com to passe if my lord Cardinal had kepte his promisse For he promised opēly to instruct vs chiefly in this article of the lords supper out of their writings whiche wrote therof with in .v. C. yeres after Christ so that we would now agree to receyue the light if it appered that thesame was hitherto hiddē frō vs. To satisfye this our expectatiō or rather the expectatiō of an infinite nūber of mē he seperated this article frō others verye necessary gaue it to vs alone And required vs to subscribe to it saying y◠otherwise the conference would be brokē of yf we should plead our cause in prison you woulde scarce vse suche talke towardes vs as to saye subscribe hereto or els we condemne you Certainly this is no part of your charge For that office which ye now professe requyreth y◠if we walk in error you should reduce vs beyng once cōuict therof into the way and exhort vs with wholesom doctrine And chiefly those which offer thēselues to yelde an accompt of theyr fayth by the scriptures And truly if thys kinde of condemnation be straunge certainly muche more straunge is the way and meanes wherby you procede to yesame We came together here chieflye for .ii. causes First to render an accompte to god to you to the whole worlde of oure fayth Not to trauel for gods cause the kings the whole kingdom to fynde some way and meanes wherby the troubles late stirred in religion may be appeased Now if we bee reiected or dysmissed wtout leaue or liberty to dispute whatsoeuer shal be done vnto vs shal be declared to all Christendome the olde tumultes shal be nothyng appeased as thei know right wel which go about to preuēt it If the matter did only belōg to vs that are here present truly at your plesure with out peril as farre as mā may iudge you might dayly with vs. But you must cōsider that we stand here in the name of al those that professe the gospel not onely in this realme but euen in Swicerlād Poole Germany England and Scotland whiche all looke for som certayne happy end of this assēbly What may they thinke when in stede of disputatiō conference which was promised vs they shall vnderstande that the tenth part of one article was offred to vs wyth this addition Subscribe to this or els go no further And yf we doe subscrybe what shall you be the better They that sente vs wyll desyre to knowe whether we were compelled therto by force or els conuict by good sure argumente So what els shall happen of this order which you now begin to take thā gret offence and grudge wee beseche the Queene therfore that she wyll not suffer this holy purpose to be brokē of but cōmaund that certain learned mete men be chosen out that will wyllynglye conferrs with vs. Neuerthelesse least we should seme to answer nothyng to those thynges that haue ben obiected agaynst vs whatsoeuer M. Spēsa gaue vs writen out of Caluins booke we receyue allowe But as to the article whyche my Lord Cardinal offred vs take or rather gelded out of the cōfessiō of Awgspurge we say there are many thynges therin to be considred First that the whole confession should haue ben offred vnto vs. For it is agaynst reason to proffer vs one article without the reste Then we woulde knowe whether of theyr owne heads priuately whiche we are lothe to think neuerthelesse we woulde gladlye knowe the truth therof or elles in the name of all the Lords they offer vs the confusion of Augspurge that al doutes taken away we may more freely conferre For so it would come to passe the thanks shuld generally be geuē to god for y◠my
reuerende master Peter Martiâ—… added many thinges and according to his singuler learning besides many other thinges which perteine to the order of the church he handled this question also shortlye plainly and eloquently He answered also diuers things which both the Cardinall and SpeÌ„sa had obiected in their orations in the first meting and chiefly those things which concerne the authoritie and amendmente of counsels Which so pricked the Cardinal that he would no more reply vnto hym And whyles he was handling and declaring diuers matters more playnly bicause he spake somewhat after yâ— ItaliaÌ„ maner the Cardinal rose and sayd in a great chafe that he would talke wyth hys own countrey meÌ„ And yet martiâ—… spake so plainly distinctly yâ— not only yâ— Cardinal being skilful in yâ— ItaliaÌ„ toÌ„g but also euery ignoraunt man myghte well perceiue him Spensa somewhat talked to him herefore coÌ„mending him aboue the rest that no man this day liued that had written more largely or copiously of this question than he Afore Spensa was answered a Spanyarde one of those that call themselues Ieswites desired that he might haue leaue to speake His talke was sharp bitter and nothing pleased the audience He assayed to turne al mennes myndes From hearing this cause as it whiche was already sufficiently knowen The suttelâ—…ies and craftes where with heretykes are wont to creepe into mennes heartes he applied to vs. Calling vs foxes and dogges And at the last concluded that we ought to be reiected and referred to the counsel of Trent which the Pope of Rome had proclaymed saying that we should haue free comming thither and the Popes safeconduyte that there the controuersies of fayth religion ought to be iudged of the which wemeÌ„ souldiors or other not exercised in diuine matters were not mete to be iudges Thus as it were perswading the Queene he willed her to send vs to Trent Hitherto his talke although it fauored bitter hate and malice yet to some semed graue and seuere But at yâ— laste he played the foole so kindly as if it had ben in a stage For when he entreated of the Lordes Supper promysed by a playne similitude to proue the presence therein he sayd it was euen lyke as if any Prince when he hath atchieued victory on his enemies to celebrate the remembraunce therof would institute yearly playes whereby bothe his warre and victory might be represented to al mennes eyes And if any man in those playes shoulde represente the person of the Prynce That would so much the more moue the mindes of yâ— beholders to remeÌ„ber it but if yâ— king himself would be preseÌ„t shew hymselfe there then thesame would be most noble and excellent Euen so sayd he that Christ himselfe when he instituted the remembraunce of his passion would also be present and in the same About the ende of hys oration he assaied to enflame the Queene agaynst vs and made many mournfull coÌ„plaintes faining himselfe to wepe after the maner of those iesters which ar commonly apte to counterfayte any gesture Hereto Beza aunswered that the Spaniard talked as though we were already conuict of heresy But for asmuchas no man hitherto hath shewed vs oure error he might haue done much better if he had reserued the scoffes which he bestowed on vs to hymselfe and his felowes Bicause we can not se how they touche vs. And as to his councel that that Queenes maiestie was not so bare of counsell that she neded it But that she and her councell sawe well inough what is best to be done and by what meanes they may prouide for common quietnesse But that which he sayd of the Lordes supper that he made nothing els of than a play of yâ— history of Christ bicause it was to blasphemous beastly beyng ouerpassed he turned toward master Spensa He vrged the playne wordes of the Lord. Thys is my body and the consent of the EuaÌ„gelistes whiche nothing differ therein We aunswered that thesame Euangelistes sayd thys is my bloud of the new testament And an other Thys cup is the new Testament in my bloud Whych without a figure can not be vnderstanded And hereby it appeareth that it is a Sacramental maner of speach Which Austine teacheth most plainly in his .xxiii. Epistle to Boniface If the Sacramentes quoth he had not a certayne lykenesse of those thynges wherof thei are Sacramentes they wer no Sacramentes at al. Of thys lykenesse moste coÌ„monly they take the names of those thyngs wherof they are SacrameÌ„ts Lyke as therfore after a certayne maner yâ— Sacrament of the body of Christ is the body of Christ and the SacrameÌ„te of the bloud of Christ is the bloud of christ so is also the Sacrament of fayth faith it selfe But Spensa sayde that yâ— letted not but that we ought simply without figure to credite the wordes of the Lord. We sayd that a Sacramentall maner of speache coulde not be withoute figure But if there be a figure in our Sacramentes quoth Spensa they shal not then muche differ from the Sacramentes of the old TestameÌ„t which are altogether figuratine And we say that they were a figure and shadowe of that truthe which was fulfilled to vs in Christ Otherwise we must nedes confesse that they were figures of a figure Which is most vnreasonable we denyed that consequence bicause yâ— figures appointed by God in the olde Testament are referred to the truth it selfe wherof the fathers wer partakers but a farre of before the commynge of Christ But we are nye at hande After he was offred for vs. Neither do we say that we are as yet vnder figures but yâ— we nede yet as long as we lyue in this body visible signes and Sacraments and in them we say ther are figuratiue or Sacramentall maners of speache which neuerthelesse proueth not but yâ— we haue the truthe notwithstandinge these signes To coÌ„clude we agree with Bernarde saying Bernard sermone .xxxiii. suê‘ â—antica The truth is set before me but in a SacrameÌ„t The Angel is fed with the meale of the corne or the perfect grayne But I must be conteÌ„t with the barke of the Sacramentes with the brauÌ„e of his flesh with the chaffe of the letter and the cloke of fayth But sure howsoeuer these be tempered and swetened with the aboundasice of spirit and fayth certainly the barke of the Sacrament and the fine boulted meale of the corne fayth and hope remembraunce and presence eternity present tyme the countenaunce the glasse the ymage of God and the forme of a seruaunt are not like pleasaunt in cast Wherby it is well proued that we truely are made partakers of yâ— truthe but do not yet fully enioy thesame bicause oure weakenesse requireth the Sacramente the barke and the cloke After thys communication with SpeÌ„sa was ended there stepte vp an other doctoure one of the Sorbonistes vrging agayne By a suttel and crafty meanes as he thought hymselfe the exposition of these the
heard afore that we taught other wyse As to the thirde quoth Beza we graunt that there is great difference betwixt common water it wherwith we are washed in Baptisme betwixt breade and wyne whyche we vse commonly and those which we receiue in the Lordes Supper For the water in Baptisme and bread and wyne in the Lordes Supper be Sacramentes that is to wyt visible signes and testimonies of the body and bloud of our Lord. But this chaūge we do not admit in the nature of the elementes But in thys that they are seuered to an other vse farre distant from it whereto naturally they be appoynted For whereas naturally they serue to the nourishment of the bodye when they become Sacramēts they represent that whiche spiritually fedeth and refresheth our soules Furthermore this sacramentall chaunge we attrybute neither to the Vertue of the worde whiche any mā pronounceth neither to his purpose intention as they terme it but to the power and vertue of god Whose wil ordināce is declared to vs by his worde In that respect therefore that the thinge signifyed is offered and geuen vnto vs of the lord and that as trulye as the signes therof are geuen vnto vs in that respect and no other we acknowledge the coniunction of the signes which y◠thinge signified And so also we saye that the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in that they are truly geuen vs and cōmunicated vnto vs to be trulye present also in the vse of his supper neither yet is it therfore to be sayde that that body is ether vnder the bread or in the bread or with the bread or in any other place than in heauen to the whiche Christ ascended Wher accordīg to his humane nature he remaineth till he shal come to iudge the quick and the dead Then the Cardinall once agayne affirmynge that he forced not Transubstanciatiō sayde that Christ in deede was to be sought in heauen Neuertheles he mixed therwith somewhat of the locall presence of Christe the opinyon of certayn Germans therof And so confounded these matters together that it well appeared he had not bin muche occupied in that article Which he him selfe witnessed also saiyng that he had spente the most part of his tyme in other businesse I graunt ye quoth Beza that we agre not with certayne of the Germans in this third article But in this one thing the grace of god is fauorable to vs al a like that with on consēt we condemne Transubstanciation and whatsoeuer dependeth thereupon And all alyke graunt and confesse the liuely communicating of the body and bloude of Christ Graūt ye then quoth the Cardinall that we in the supper do truely and substanciallye Cōmunicate with the body bloude of Iesus Christ that remainth quoth Beza For the fourth poynte We do saye in effect That the visible sygnes which naturally are eaten and dronken are touched with our sences but the thing signified namely the body and bloud of Christ truely and wtout any coloure or deceit is offered to al men but can not otherwyse be receiued but spiritually by fayth For thei be not receiued with one hande or mouth Yet neuerthelesse thys communicating is so certayn that it which we see wyth our eyes touche with our hāds cā be no surer Although the misery of this cōmuniō of the vertue of the holy ghost nether cā by sence be perceiued nor by the cōpasse of oure wit comprehended The Cardinall affirmed that he was satysfied wyth these reasons And that openly testifyed to the Queene Geuing good hope that there shoulde ensue some happye ende of thys conference He entreated also and desyred Beza that he would oftener talke and conferre with him of these matters that so at last they myghte make some waye to peace and concorde So those that heard thereof were in greate hope of better successe But therewithall some came to the Cardinall willing hym to cōtinue in hys first purpose easely suspecting that which afterwards happened For the next day there was a rumour spred not only in the court but also in Poyssye yea and afterwardes caryed into farre countreyes that at the fyrste meting Beza was ouercome cōuerted by the Cardinals labour And to cōclude that we had now taken the foyle These and diuers suche other tales as custome is were forged spred abrode which although they might be cōfuted with the witnesse of many credible persons yet now at last in tyme prouing themselues lyes to their great shame y◠first fayned them are vanished awaye Whē as the tyme was thus prolonged and no answer made vnto vs we came to the nobles of the realm and earnestly desyred thē that we myght be heard Least in ouerpasting so mete an occasion those by whō we were sent mighte seme to sustayne any shame or reproch But chiefely we required that those cōditions which we first proposed might be obserued and that we myght not otherwise couple with our aduersaries But chefely that they might not be their owne iudges in the matter And that whatsoeuer shuld happen might hereafter appeare more certain we required an answere in writing Which whē it was denied vnto vs we came to the Queene desiring and beseching her to graunt to our requestes There wer present the king of Nauarre the prince of Conde the admiral the Chancelour The Queene answered that the Bishops shuld in no wise be our iudges And that such thigs as wer done one of the kinges secretaries shuld register which was one of thē whō we call secrytaryes of cōmaundements And if we would our selues pen our disputatiōs we might lawfully doe it And whereas in decreeing of doctrines we would groūde only vpō the authority of the Scriptures that we might opēly proteste And that the kyng which had takē vs into hys tuycyō would be present at it with the rest of the nobility But she cōmaunded vs to do al thyngs moderatly and wisely respecting onely the glory of God of the aduauncement wherof she thought vs desyrous But that these thinges should be geuē vnto vs in writinge she thougth it was not expediente for many causes Neuerthelesse she promised we shoulde haue it if we had nede thereof Willing vs to credite no lesse her worde thā her writing Forasmuche as if she meante to deceiue vs her writing could not let her Immediatly after our departure came the doctours of the Sorbonistes desiring the Quene that she woulde not vouchsafe to heare vs. But if she were determined to heare vs at the least that she should not suffer the kyng to be present therat For that it was great perill as they sayd least the king in this his tender age shoulde be seasoned wyth vnsounde doctrine from the which afterwardes he should hardly be withdrawen And that we forasmuchas we were already condemned of heresye were not to be heard at all Then the Queene aunswered that she woulde doe nothing withoute her councell Whereby they well perceiued that
succession therof is of no small force to wynne it authoritye amonges menne As to the succession of persones we admitte it but so that it be conioyned wyth the succession of the Propheticall and Apostolyke doctryne in substance and the chiefe poyntes and groundes atleaste But we speake of the doctryne it selfe not of theyr maners For albeit it be required of true and faithfull pastours that in doctryne and lyfe they be sounde and pure yet for the ignoraunce of some thynges or for the diuersitie of opinions in doctrine so that it stretch not to the substaunce of our saluation or though ther life be not of the perfectest yet for these thynges we doe not reiect them but beare them So they kepe the grounde and foundation And that we ought so to doe Christ teacheth vs saying that whē the Scribes and Pharises sitting in Moyses chayre teache vs we oughte to folowe their doctryne and not their deedes Mat. xxiii a. ii iii. Whiche place Austine writing vppon Iohn sayeth ought to be vnderstande of suche hyerlyng pastours as keepe the sounde doctrine but not of false Prophetes of whom Christ contrarywyse sayde August tracta xlvi Beware of the leauen of the Pharisees Mat. xvi a. vi vi xi Whyle they sitte sayeth Austine in the chayre of Moyses they teache the lawe of God and so god teacheth by them But yf they teache theyr owne doctryne neyther heare theyr woordes neyther folowe their deedes That also the same author expresseth more at large in hys xlix Sermon of the woordes of the Lorde Forasmuche as therefore false Prophetes and wolues maye succede to true and faythfull pastours we dooe not onelye not admitte personall succession but euen condemne it vnlesse the successiō of doctrine be ioyned with all because it is a meete cloke for anye lye or errour Furthermore if personal succession of it self shoulde be taken for a certayn mark of the church ther ought to haue ben som promis of god shewed wherby he hath limited his grace to any certayn sea or countrey Whiche in the new Testament we shal not find In deede he promised that the churche shoulde be Catholike that is to were vniuersall whiche is so called for that the particuler members thereof are here and there dispersed throughoute the whole worlde Whersoeuer it pleaseth god to shewe his iudgementes eyther vpon those whō he vtterly cutteth of or whom he chasteneth for a tyme or in shewyng mercy to them whō he furthereth better and better or whom he calleth to his knowledge and saluation For in some places the Lord iustly reuenging himself so destroyeth the churche that he seemeth euen to roote it oute and not to leaue so muche as any signe therof as it hapned amonges the barbarous nations and in the most part of all the Easte Otherwhere as in Greece and other realmes more nie to vs he hath lefte some tokens of the churche Agayne sometyme the Lorde dothe cut and breake of onely the personall succession of pastours as it hapned at Antioche in the time of Samosatenus and at Alexandria after the banishment of Athanasius and in many other churches And that we neede to seeke no further the personall succession then at the least fayled in the Romaine churche when Honorius being bishop was condemned for the detestable heresie of the Eutichians And so likewise in the time of Iohn the. xxii of that name who was also cōdemned for heresie Vnlesse perhaps some man wyll mayntayne that those that are manifestly condemned of heresye be pastours Furthermore in what case this succession stoode vnder Iohn the shee Pope through the scismes and cōtentions of diuerse striuyng for the Popes sea the histories sufficientlye witnesse Wherfore we conclude that not respectyng the personall succession of pastours we must alwayes haue regarde to the purenesse of doctrine and the sincere administratiō of sacramēts so that they onely be to be counted successours of the Apostles whiche beyng lawfully called doe buylde vpon theyr foundation Whether they deriue their succession from them or whether thesame haue fayled And contrarywyse they that neyther buylde nor teache or preache theyr owne doctrine in stede of the Apostles although they were able to shewe neuer so many and continuall presidentes of their predecessors are not to be taken for pastours but to be shūned as wolues as Christ and his Apostles teach Some manne parhappes will obiecte Is it therfore lawfull for any man to teache and mynyster the Sacramentes no. For it behoueth as the Apostle sayeth that al thinges bee done in the house of God ryghtly and orderly i. Corint xiiii g. xi Who then shall bee taken for true pastours they whiche are lawfully called It remayneth then that we vnderstande what is a lawfull callyng And here I must craue attention For we saye that some callyng is ordynarye and some extraordinarye Ordinarye is it in the whiche is obserued the order appoynted by GOD in hys churche In that order these three thinges are chiefly requyred Firste the examination of his doctrine and lyfe that shal be ordayned thē a lawfull choyse and election And lastlye the laying of handes And these we all gathered out of diuers places of the scripture As oute of the Actes of the Apostles and the writinges of Paule to Timothe and Titus Ac. i. d. xii Ioh. vi a. vi i. Tim. ii a. ii et iii. d. xxii Titus i. a. vi This therefore is the ordinarye callyng Whereby we may well discerne whiche is it that we call extraordinarye Namely it that wāteth som one or other or al these cōditions and yet the same grounded vppon the authoritie of God and lawfull That god vsed suche extraordinary callyngs it plainly appeareth throughout the whole scripture For who laid handes vpon Moyses that he myght consecrate Aaron Who gaue the gyfte of Prophecye to Esay Danyeil Amos and the rest Exodus xxviii Esa vi b. xciii Dani. i. c. ◅vii Amos. vii xiiii Yea was not this geuen them when they that ordinarilye had the charge thereof abused it For then it was necessarye that god shoulde put to his hande extraordinarilye not to trouble or confounde the order of hys churche but to correcte them whiche vnder the pretence of ordinary succession dissordred all This well proue the writyngs of the Prophets which most of al pertain to y◠orders of the priestes Ps xxviii vi vii Iere. vii a. iiii et xxiii a. xi Ezec. xxii e. xxvi Soph. iii. a. iiii But if it be obiected that suche men gaue some certayntye of their vocation as either some miracle or some heauenly signe I graunt the same to be true in some but not in all Neither can any mā say otherwise vnlesse he wil plainly denye the truth Neither do Iwel know whether we shall find many prophetes of the stocke of Aaron or vpon whom after the ordinary maner hands were layde But yf any man will take this exceptiō that those prophets vsed only to rebuke
was in doctrine That there were onely three kept before Austines time â–ª The Nicene councell against the Arrians the councel of Constantinople against the MacedoniaÌ„s the first counsel of Ephesus against Nestorius none of the which was afterwardes amended He denied the history of Paphuntius as a thyng doubtful to be credited and further sayd that it perteined not to the purpose At the laste to geue the Cardinall occasion which seking by al meanes to breake of the conference willed him to entreate of the supper he came to that question and with few wordes entreated of the presence of the body of Christ in the bred And he red to vs certaine places out of the bokes of Caluine â—…aling neuerthelesse the name of the â—…tour saying that he â—…eruaâ—…led if we would swarue from hym to whom we geue most authoritie aboue the rest about the end of his tale he gaue vs those places to read Afore we answered Spensa a Monk of that order that are clothed all in white whose name they say was Xantus stepped forth enflamed with desire of conteÌ„tion And as though he were aggrieued that SpeÌ„sa had talked somwhat grauely and modestly begaÌ„ to powre out his stomake and not able to stay any loÌ„ger wuld not let vs answer til we had first heard him Then he began to repeate those things which SpeÌ„sa had already spokeÌ„ at large sawcig yesame w e scoffes tauntes which he semed to esteme as that greatest ornameÌ„ts grace of his talke For vs he coÌ„pared both to other auncient heretiâ—…es also to the Anabaptists but at the last he became so mad that abusing the authority of the auÌ„cieÌ„t fathers he affirmed that the fouÌ„datiâ—… of yâ— traditioÌ„s is more sure than of the scripture For the scriptures quoth he may by diuers interpretations bee wried sondry waies And that Ciprian with the rest of the Aphricans was deceiued in this that they sayd Christ sayeth not I am that custom But I am the waye truthe and lyfe And that this his saying heretikes dyd afterwardes commonly abuse He alledged the authoritie of Tertullian of the prescriptions of heretikes imperyously euen like a maister of that scooles I will not saye foolyshly willyng Beza to reade the place by hym alledged twice or thrice Tertullians wordes be these They alledge the scriptures and with these their impudence at the fyrst moue awaye Also that the disputation with scriptures nothyng auaileth vnlesse a man do altogether eyther turne his stomake or his brayne And again Therfore we must not appeale to the scriptures neither contend with them by whom there is eyther no victorye to be atchieued or if there be any it is verye vncertain Furthermore XaÌ„tus said the god otherwise thaÌ„ he intended for that was his term deliuered his doctryne in writing abusig the autority of Chrisostom or of the author of the imperfecte work writteÌ„ vpoÌ„ Mathew And falslye touching the proeme of that work wher ther is no suche thyng red For these bee the wordes of the author After that all the people of the Iewes was falleÌ„ into the depth of sin it was necessary that then a law shuld be writen the tables geueÌ„ warning threates by theÌ„ And this we see hapned not only to the holy meÌ„ of the olde testameÌ„t but eueÌ„ of the new also For Christ left nothing in writyng to hys apostles but in stede of writing promised to geue theÌ„ the grace of the holy gost He quoth he wil teach you al thinges Then he added also that not onely the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was geuen of god wherof came al traditions Also for the rule to discerne traditions that not only the word but also the nature custom is to be considred Accordyng to the saying of Paule the .i. Corint xi Nature it self teacheth you And again neyther let vs not haue such a custome neyther the exaumples of the church of god to be shorte he rehearsed the same that Spensa had afoâ—…e spoken Hereto Beza aunswered modestly at large that to haue one selfe same tale doubled of diuers is not mete for that conference or disputation wherein any good ende or concorde should be sought For that of muche matter heaped together the witts of man are confounded so as therof no good thing may aryse but confusion That euen by their own iudgementes if they had at any tyme vsed disputatioÌ„ this order could not be allowed Neuerthelesse he hoped that so farre as his memory would serue hym to reherse their reasons he would lightly satisfy them And therwithal he desired the Queene and the rest of the nobles hereafter to take some better order for their conference First therfore wheras Spensa had sayd that he much meruayled that we toke vpon vs to teache forasmucheas the ordinary successors had neuer layde handes vpon vs he answered that this is not the chiefe signe of lawfull calling For the chiefe and substantiall partes be the inquisition of learning and lyfe and choyse and election These be the ordinary meanes To the which although the outwarde ceremonies of laying on handes be not adioyned yet the ministery is lawful notwithstanding And that we which wer there present to defende our doctrine and the rest of oure felowes waÌ„ted not also the third mark And neded not to stay on that poynte forasmuch as we were both chosen and confirmed For handes were layed vpoÌ„ vs and we lawfully presented to oure churches which accepted our ministery if it be obiected that those of whom we were instituted and which layed their handes on vs had no autority of the ordinary successors neyther were chosen of the people the answere is ready that thinges being in such confusioÌ„ and the ecclesiasticall order disordred we dyd not stay for the layeng on of their handes whose vicious lyfe superstition false doctrine we haue alwayes repreheÌ„ded For in vaine should we haue sought to haue bin allowed of them whiche wyth deadly hate pursued that truth the defeÌ„ders therof And that we wanted not the presideÌ„tes of the Prophetes to whoÌ„ none were more deadly enemies than the Priestes forasmuch as thei themselues wer turned out of kind no longer respected their office therfore forasmuche as against theÌ„ chiefly the lord had styrred vp the prophets they ought not to seke for at their hands the confirmatioÌ„ of that autority which they had receyued of god Nether did they intrude theÌ„selues into the ministery but wheÌ„ thei had once the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts of god thei wer coÌ„pelled eueÌ„ with the peril of theyr liues to execute thesame And that thesame we in these our times ought to do also Furthermore yâ— extraordinary calling is not alwaies proued by miracles For that which we read of Moses the signes shewed by him hapned not so in all the rest For by what miracles did Esay Daniel Amos Zachary proue theyr calling Or Paulus afore he did execute his charge Did he stay
for the layiÌ„g on of haÌ„ds but to proue himself an apostle he did not so much cite his miracles of the which he had great store as yâ— fruite of his preachyng the coÌ„uersioÌ„ of those people whoÌ„ the lord had turned at his calling For writing to the CorinthiaÌ„s he saith You are the seale of my apostleship in that lord Cor. ix Thesame truely say of so gret a nuÌ„ber as by our preching haue receued the gospel agaiÌ„st al the power of maÌ„ nether seke we any other coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of our calling ministery For the power vertue of god hath sufficieÌ„tly shewed it self forasmuch as nether prysoÌ„ fier banishmeÌ„t nor death could stay yesame But quoth SpeÌ„sa shew me but eueÌ„ one example wtin these .xv. C. yeares like to your case Although quoth Beza al hystories are not writteÌ„ yet I donbie not but there may be fouÌ„d som But if ther be none it is no incoÌ„uenience to say that god in our daies hath done yâ— which he neuer did afore Afterwards we cam to traditioÌ„s which SpeÌ„sa made equal with that scripture â—…aÌ„tus preferred aboue it as more certain thaÌ„ it But to the place of Paul which reuoketh vs to yâ— scripturs SpeÌ„sa aÌ„swerd that Paul speketh generally of doctrine Which forth w e was aÌ„swered not of vs only but of an other singularly wel learned maÌ„ which was there preseÌ„t that it is writeÌ„ ther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Moreouer we said it was new straÌ„ge that XaÌ„tus wold haue the traditioÌ„s more certain thaÌ„ the scripture for yâ— by reasoÌ„ of many interpretatioÌ„s may be vncertayne For what fouÌ„datioÌ„ shal our faith haue if we doubt of it neither is it therefore incertain bicause many times meÌ„ misapply it mangle it abuse it For the truthe abides alway one which though it be somtymes darkned yet continueth her force euen to the last Neither bicause heretikes abuse it ought we therefore the lesse to fly to it What wroÌ„g he doth vs in coÌ„paring of Anabaptistes other diuelish sectes our writings wel testify They admit onely som part of the Scriptures We accept allow the whole they credit new reuelations We say that suche thynges are out of place sithe Christe hath manifested al things fully vnto vs. As to the place of TertulliaÌ„ wherof â—…antus warned Beza twice or thrice to read it I quoth Beza haue read it more than xx tymes am so well assured that you shall finde it as I saye as I perfectly know that you shal neuer finde in Chrisostom that which you in his name haue falsely alleged But do not deny that Tertullian did manye tymes passe his bondes Neuerthelesse if we coÌ„sider towhat ende he spake it you shal perceiue how lightly this which you thynke to make so much with you shal be answered For this was his purpose that we should not in vaine reason with heretikes As Paule couÌ„saileth vs after the first or seconde admonition to leaue them But what maner of heretikes were those Suche as beig conuicted of their heresy by the worde of god tryfled in vayne What were the traditions whiche he layde against them Such as are conteyned in the writinges of the Apostles and pertayn to the chiefe articles of our fayth and which the whole church professed Fyrst therfore we should haue ben coÌ„uicted by the same worde that if we be in any erroure we might thereby bee withdrawen from it But to bee confuted by tradition whiche is neither Apostolical nor yet grounded on their writings that truely is asmuch as to opeÌ„ the gate to all deceite and vtterly to ouerturne the certaintye of oure faith But why doth Tertullian himself vpbrayde the heretikes saying Let them beleue the scriptures if they can do it beleuig agaynst the scriptures except we ought to flye to them and by them confute all errors If these rytes whyche at thys daye our aduersaries haue brought in were Apostolike the churche would alwayes haue vsed them Neither should they haue had so late beginning Now forasmuche as the authors of them are wel knoweÌ„ described in histories certainly it cannot be said that they came first froÌ„ the Apostles Falsly also is the name of traditions refrained to those things which are deliuered froÌ„ hande to hande in as muche as this woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is referred eueÌ„ to those things that are writen TertulliaÌ„ refuteth those that taught that the apostles had not sufficiently instructed vs in al things that thei might leaue a place for new traditioÌ„s as things reuealed by the holy gost Thei are woÌ„t to say quoth he that the apostles knew al but neuertheles put not al in writing In both pointes blaming christ as though he had either insufficieÌ„tly instructed his apostles or els had choseÌ„ such simple meÌ„ as were not able to vtter their mindes in writing For what sober maÌ„ would beleue that the apostles wer ignoraÌ„t in any thing whoÌ„ the lord appointed as maisters â–ª c. To the Apostles therfore we must fly whoÌ„ christ seÌ„t to preach But how shall we be assured of their doctrine but by their wrytings Was not vnctioÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto theÌ„ for this cause that they might deliuer and write vnto vs al things necessarye for our saluatioÌ„ not to leaue vs douting or vncertain And herby is that place of Chrisostom easily discussed which was earst aleged where he saith that Christ left nothing in writing to his apostles Wuld he therfore that thei shuld write nothing No sure But therfore he taught them therfore he reueled it vnto them by his spirit that the same doctrine once written might remain for euer But thei taught somâ—…things which are not coÌ„tained in their writings Neither that truely do we deny But we saie that there is nothing pertaining to our saluation Whyche they haue not left in writing other thiges which coÌ„cerne rites ciuill dyscypline they might easily teach by worde of mouth But because yesame chaunge according to time place they woulde not buâ—… then our consciences therwith As to the obiection of the names of vnbegotten consubstaÌ„tiality trinity baptisme of children although the playne names wordes be not in the scriptures yet the thinges themselues that is to wit the sence and grounde Whereof the names are gathered is playnelye expressed and shewed in the scripture These thinges were long debated and sometymes the talke interrupted Xantus spake muche and affirmed a great while that the virginitie of Mary after her deliuerance coulde not bee proued by the scriptures Neither yet that yong children ought to be baptised Neuerthelesse bothe were proued by the authoritie of the scripture But he ceassed not to bable after the maner of the Sorbonistes as though he shoulde wynne the victorie with triflyng and talking His talke litle liked so honorable anaudience as it that was full of bitternes sharpenesse and stomake Our men in the meane tune modestly stayd themselues And albeit manye of our aduersaries spake at once confusedly
yet we counted it better to for beare than to be counted lyke to suche trouble some talkers At this alteration the Cardynall stepped in and as though this question had ben sufficiently debated made an end therof Or rather wheÌ„ he coulde no longer beare the proud insoleÌ„t talke of XaÌ„tus he brake of his talk Hereof neuerthelesse the Sorhonists as if the mater had ben coÌ„cluded or seÌ„tence geuen on theyr side w e vain arrogaÌ„ce peâ—…waded theÌ„selues that they had won the victorye Neither is it any marueyle for neither could we answer many of theyr reasoÌ„s which they spake all at once so that we could not vnderstand theÌ„ nether would we interrupt the Cardinal in his talke But he taking on him the part of a iudge dyd closelye conclude that whatsoeuer is written ought to be referred to the authoritie of the charch that her tradytions wer in all pointes to be obserued Afterwardes he turned his talke to the Lordes supper affirming protestyng that he woulde goe no farther tyll we agreed of that article For this sayd he is the controuersye that troubles most men And sayd further that we had necessarily coÌ„pelled him to talke therof For yâ— in our fyrst metyng we had plainlye fhewed our mynde therof which nowe filled al Fraunce with diuers daungerous rumour and farther was imprinted and sette abrode He obiected vnto vs the confession of Awgspurge asked whether we wold subscribe ther to We asked agayne whether they woulde bee contente to allowe it in all pointes then they beganne to trifle Furthermore they obiected other opinioÌ„s of certain ministers of the Germans which they said wer seÌ„t vnto theÌ„ neither wer they ashamed to desyre intreate vs to subscribe vnto theÌ„ But that was done for a pollicy to thintente that if we denied so to do he might set vs at strife with the Germans and make vs to be hated of them And if we did agre then they as conquerours shoulde tryumph ouer vs and make a commoÌ„ iest of vs as of light and vndiscrete persoÌ„s and so coÌ„demne our opinion To auoid this doubt we answered that we came thither to defende the confession of oure faith and had no other commauÌ„demeÌ„t or authoritie of our churches â–ª Therfore we required that we might folowe the order of our confession and that euerye article might be seuerally and distinctly weyed so that it mighte plainlye appeare wherein we agree and wherein we disagree For bothe the order of nature and also the waye to concorde requireth that those thinges whiche be playnest and easiest should first be haÌ„dled â–ª Furthermore forasmuch as the sacramentes depend vpon the doctrine It is most necessary first to reason of it With al this we nothing preuailed For the Cardinal continued in his purpose We saw also that he attempted this that we with inequall hande might departe the conferre that yesame might seeme to be broken of by our stubbornesse Which we thought good by al meanes to preueÌ„t Therfore we desired to haue their writing to the which they would haue vs subscribe that we might deliberate therof Ther with all they brought forth a copie of the article of the lordes supper takeÌ„ as they said out of the confession of Awgspurge But differing neuerthe lesse much therfrom as it may wel appeare by the reading thereof For this it was with a stedfast faith we coÌ„fesse that in the most reuerend sacrament of the Lordes body and bloud truly really and sacramentally the true bodye bloude of Christ is offred to the coÌ„municantes and receiued by them Herto they added the confession of certayne ministers of Wittenberge set forth 〈…〉 the yere of our of our lord god 1559. So we departed for that day and the matter was deferred till the morowe Wherfore when we perceiued that by this requeste they minded to driue vs to this inconuentence that eyther we should denie our own confession or els breake of the conference returnyng at the last and calling on the name of god we determined rather to take the most vnequall and bniust conditions that could be offred than to geue any occasyon wherby it might seme that we fled the conference Therfore the nexte day we prepared our selues to aunswere waytyng alwayes when we should be commaunded to come when it was sygnyfyed to vs from the Queene that thesame was deferred for twoo dayes In the meane tyme diuers tales were spred of vs as that we were ouercome and could not proue our ministery lawfully and our aduersaries reioyced as conquerors as though our hearts fainted to be short thei criuÌ„phed afore the victory But this theyr myrth coÌ„tinued not loÌ„g For ii daies after at oure returne we brought forth an aÌ„swer more at large more perfect to those things which afore wer ouer passed vsed such meanes as we could to auoid the pollicy of oure aduersaries It Beza rehersed in wrytig The effect of it was this That we greatly maruelled yâ— wheras of late we had so aboundantly shewed what is the church what be her marks how great her autority that any reasonable manne might be satisfied ther wt. Yet neuer the lesse nothing was saide against it but onely demaunded of vs by what power we do administer the worde of GOD sacrameÌ„ts And yet nothing ouerpassed yâ— might make our cause odious hateful For to what purpose it was spoken we could not as yet wel perceue bicause we came not thither to administer the word or sacraments But if an accompt shal be demauÌ„ded of vs of those thinges which her to fore we haue don thei must understaÌ„d the emoÌ„ges vs there are two sorts of ministers One of those that teach in foren couÌ„treys in the which theyr calling is allowed And of those it cannot iustly be demauÌ„ded here wherfore they be ministers Another sort is of theÌ„ whiche teach the gospel in this realm whom we thought not to be seÌ„t for hyther to geue an accompt of their callig but only to coÌ„fer dispute of doctrine Otherwise they might seme to bee sent for to plead their cause as for som crime Which we cannot think that the Queene or nobles in any wise minded And yf the same be required vnder the colour of coÌ„ference reasoning it is verye far froÌ„ the meanes of coÌ„cord reconcilement For we cannot enter into such questions demaundes with out the greate offence of the bishops other the Lords of spiritualtie But none of vs all at anye time minded it but purposed onelye to prosecute this holy purpose I pray you if two parties agree to conferre afterwardes the one demaunde of the other By what nower do you this must it not needes ensue that by suche questions they shal fall at bariance As for example setting a part the bishops and other the spiritualtie of this realm whoÌ„ we are lothe to offende let vs admytte that some straunge byshop enquireth of vs by what authoritye we minister the woorde and