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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	answer_n	church_n	scripture_n	2,228	5	6.2350	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16643	A plaine confutation of a treatise of Brovvnisme, published by some of that faction, entituled: A description of the visible Church In the confutation wherof, is shewed, that the author hath neither described a true gouerment of the Church, nor yet proued, that outward discipline is the life of the Church. Whereunto is annexed an ansvvere vnto two other pamphlets, by the said factioners latelie dispersed, of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison. Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this sect, what the articles are which they still maintaine: as also a short confutation of them. There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God.	Alison, Richard, controversialist.	1590 (1590)	STC 355; ESTC S100153	67,007	148

lambe and that worde of their testimonie they are more then conquerours brusing the head of the serpent yea thorough the power of his word they haue power to cast downe sathan like lightning to tread vpon serpents and scorpions to cast downe strong holdes and euerie thing that exalteth it selfe against God The gates of hell and all the principalities powers of the world shall not preuaile against it Brownist The muster maister hath viewed the world chosen his soldiers appointed the victuallers selected out the sergeants of the bands hath brought them to their captaine and they are readie to march on vnder his conduct in the face of their enemies bodily and ghostly to the confusion of sathan sinne hell and all VVhat wages he exspected for this his peece of seruice is best knowne vnto him selfe but what faithfulnes he hath vsed in his dealing it is apparant vnto all for in these three things his packing is notorious First that the victory of the church which she is assured of in and through the power of Christ is here restrained limited for our author doeth acknowledge it so farre only as it enioyeth this foresaid gouernement of Pastors Doctors Elders c. Secondly that the power of the word of God the ministerie thereof which is the sanctified meanes for sathans ouerthrow and the building vp of Christ his church is here granted no otherwise then this word is preached vnder this outward gouernement Lastly that the certainetie of victorie which is by faith is heere applied to the whole visible church as if all the members thereof were truly faithful By this his practise he woulde conclude that which as yet remaineth vnproued viz. that the necessitie of this gouernmēt is such that the enioyning of it is sufficient to make the church without spot or wrinckle and that where this is wanting there is no fight against fathan no strife against sinne no victorie no church apparant The testimonies of Scripture that should helpe him herein and are for the same cause noted in the margent do cut the throat of these his follies For thogh he telleth vs that this armie of Sainctes is martialled here on earth by these officers yet the holy ghost describeth the warrior and his traine to be the warriors which were in heauen Though this man saith that triumph is made by vertue of this gouernment yet the holy ghost saith it is in pacience and constancie of faith and obedience And in a word though he affirmeth that discipline is all in all yet the places noted by him speaking of the power of Christ in his sernants ouercomming satan doe not once mention anie outward gouernment much lesse this discipline here prescribed Brownist Further he hath giuen them the keies of the kingdome of heauen that whatsoeuer they binde on the earth by his word shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer they loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen Now this power which Christ hath giuen vnto his Church and to euerie member of his church to keepe it in order he hath not lefte it to their discretions and lustes to bee vsed or neglected as they will but in his last will and testament he hath set downe both an order of proceeding and an end to which it is vsed Answere God hath in deede committed authoritie vnto his church of binding and loosing and hath also shewed an order of proceeding which assertions are to be collected out of these three places of Scriptures which are twice noted in the margent that the number of testimonies which they vsed might seeme greater then it is But here we haue to marke that Christ is said to haue giuen this power aforesaid to euery member of the church so that heere is no difference made betwene the people the gouernors or at the lest i● he supposeth a difference to be betweene them he hath not set downe how farre the authoritie of the people is extended Againe if the people be granted so greate an interest in the matters of the church we must thinke that the officers themselues I meane the Deacons releeuers were not to be secluded which being graunted and seemeth here to be concluded not only women haue to dele in the censures of the Church but also the description of euerie office the Elder onely excepted hath ben vnperfect seeing no such matter hath beene mentioned in any of them Secondly we are to note that he saith that this order is not left to the descretion of the church for if his meaning bee that the censures of the church ought to bee vsed with all fidelitie wee doe not gainesaie him but if hee meane that when they are not duely executed there the church doeth cease to be the church apparant according to that doctrine which in another place they haue set downe then do they agree with the Anabaptists Donatists herein who being sufficientlie answered the one by Bullinger the other by Augustine I maruell that these men shoulde not be satisfied and contented to reuoke this error The summe of whose answers tend to this that the end of excommunication for the question is not of the officers but of the church censures in this place is that the partie punished might bee amended that the credite of the church might bee furthered that others be not offended and made worse and that the church might be preserued in peace Therefore edification and the welfare of the Church are especially to be regarded for better it were that wicked men should goe vnpunished if the punishing of them shoulde damnify the Church Againe the church of Corinth was the church of God when they neglected to proceede against the incestuous person Also the last supper of the Lord was rightly administred yet Iudas was not excommunicate the Prophets complained of the sinnes of the church in their times yet contemned they not the sacrifices sacraments and worship of God Christ and his Apostles blamed the Church for grosse corruptions yet was he circumcised therein c. By which reasons as by others by thē produced we are vrged to acknowledge that it may be the Church of God which doth not alwaies proceede against the wicked according to their deserts Thirdly we are to marke that hee ascribeth the keies of the kingdom of heauen to the officers before named whereas Christ committed this power not to the Elders for none were established but vnto the ministers of the word for in Peter they all are represented as by considering the places alleged out of Mathew and Iohn will plainly appeare Brownist And if the fault be priuate priuat holy louing admonition and reproofe with an inward desire and earnest care to win their brother but if he wil not heare thee yet to take two or three other brethren with him whome hee knoweth most meet to that purpose that by the mouth of two or three witnesses euerie worde

the corruptiō of their harts Thirdly that our ministery is antichristian a matter handled pag. 125. the scurrilitie in calling them hirelings mercenary preachers c. deserueth no answer the names of parson vicar c. doth not make a difference in the ministery but in their maintenance Fourthly we are subiect to the popish courtes as high commission c. wherunto I answer that al these courts haue their authority from her maiesty though some of thē more directly then the other In consideration wherof to call the lest antichristian is arrogant but to ioine thē all in one sentence to disswade her maiesties subiects frō yeelding obedience vnto any of thē it will be found an act of no good subiect yet for mine owne parte I purpose not to giue iudgement in the matter I leaue it to such as are acquainted with the law onely I will propound the case which is this The high court of Parlement hath agreed that the queene her hignes successors kings queenes of this realme shall haue full power by letters pattents vnder the great seale to name and authorise when as often and for so long time as her highnes her heires or successors shall thinke meete such person or persons as she or they shal thinke meet to execute vnder her c. all manner iurisdictions priuileges and preheminences in any wise concerning any spirituall iurisdiction within England and Ireland c. 1. Eliz. 1. Now her maiestie by the authoritie aforesaid hath graunted her letters pattentes vnder the great seale for the two courts of high commission and delegates And by the said authority first from the Parlement and then from her maiestie these two courtes doe stande and not by any other right or authoritie whatsoeuer yet these two courts of high commission and of delegates are here tearmed popishe and antichristian courts and the people are condemned to be antichristian which yeelde obedience vnto them This therefore is the case Whether it toucheth her maiesty or not that libels railing vpon and calling her highnes authority which is warranted by her broad seale popish antichristian c. Brownist These assemblies are not ruled by the old and new testament but by the canons iniunctions and decrees of those antichristian and popish courts therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is ruled by the old and new testament but the church of Englande is not c. Therefore c. If Christ hath in his last will set down a perfect gouernment for his church as they say he hath there is little vse of the olde Testament for direction of discipline vnder the Gospell But this Argument being in effect the same with the former needeth no other answere then it had Brownist These people stand not in for their Christian libertie but all of them remaine in bondage to these Aegyptian and Babylonishe yoakes yeelding obedience vnto these courts and their canons Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this All and euerie of the true Church stand in and for their christian libertie to practise whatsoeuer God hath commanded them c. But in the church of England they stande not for their christian libertie Therefore c. Ansvvere We haue seene pag. 49. 50. that the priuate man doth passe the bondes of his calling in presuming to deale with publike reformation Againe it was sayde pag. 45. that in the visible church it doth not alwaies fall out that euerie member hath that freedom which is requisite in the performance of their christian dueties of his calling The proposition therefore is false As for the assumption in differing nothing from the three former it doth commend the greate facilitie of the author who in resoning in so smal varietie of matter is able to frame so greate a change of argumentes which yet being considered of doe appeare all one in effect Brownist These assemblies haue not the povver vvhich Christ hath giuen vnto his church vnto the vvorlds end al the povvers of earth and hell cannot take from them viz. to binde and loose and to reforme things that are amisse but are driuen to the Commissarie courtes Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church hath power to execute the censures of the church but the church of Englande hath not Therefore c. The proposition faileth for the true church is sometimes without outward gouernement whereof read pag. 25. and so consequently without the power which this man speaketh off for I know he will not restraine this power of binding and loosing though he might vnto the ministerie of the word whereof notwithstanding Christ speaketh Ioh. 20. 23. saying Whose sinnes soeuer ye remit they are remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained As for the assumption it is most vntrue for we haue not onely the power of Gods word which he hath giuen vnto his ministerie to bind and to loose therby but also the censures of the church in respect of outward gouernement I grant that euerie seuerall congregation hath not this power and I dare affirme that in no age it can be proued that euery seuerall congregation had this authoritie but euen in those churches which had an Eldership the same was not in euery assemblie but diuerse congregations were ordered by one senyorie therefore to say that because euerie priuate congregation hath not this power therefore it is not at all in the church is a childish kind of reasoning Brownist These assemblies cast out sathan by the power of sathan namely by these Imps of Antichrist the Bishops commissaries and priests Therfore they are not and for all their reasons seuerall and ioyned cannot be held in any Christian iudgement the true church of Christ. Answere In this last Argument is granted vnto vs that which before was denied viz. that our church hath power of casting out but it faileth in the manner for if they say true this power is not from Christ but from the imps of Antichrist c. vnto which accusation I answere the end wherefore men are cast out from amongst vs by the doctrine of our church should be that the offender by being depriued of the seales of the couenant might be brought vnto repentance Now for the ordering hereof the people are not in the weightie matters of the church to haue their voice pag. 47. c. And a presbyterie in euery congregation cannot be had pag. ●8 therfore neither election ordination excommunication nor other censures of the Church are to be committed to euerie particular congregation As for this vnchristian dealing in condemning for Antichristian whatsoeuer is not according to their humour it hath bene often answered Some defectes there are in our gouernment we challenge no perfection some corruption there is oftentimes in such as haue the ordering of it I defend not all But in this I would be resolued if wee by the power of Satan cast out Satan by what power do they cast out

be tolde too often we must bee content to heare it againe Therefore it followeth Brownist The pastors office is to feede the sheepe of Christ in greene and wholesome pastors of his word and leade them to the still waters euen to the pure fountain riuer of life he must guide and keepe those sheepe by that heauenly shephooke and pastor all staffe of the worde thereby drawing them to him therby looking into their soules euen into their most secrete thoughtes thereby discerning their diseases and thereby euring them applying to euerie disease a fit and conuenient medicine according to the qualitie and maladie of the disease and giue warning to the church that they may orderly proccede to excommunication Further he must by this his sheephooke watch ouer defend his flock from rauenous beasts and the wolfe and take the litle foxes c. Ansvvere It belongeth to the Pastor to fede the shepe to draw thē frō euil by the power of the word both in matters of faith manners of life to preserue them frō schismes heresies schismatikes heretiks and to giue notice of the wilful and obstinate persons that ecclesiasticall censure may proceede against them For proofe whereof the places alleaged must haue a gentle construction before they may be accounted indifferent For though Leuit 10. Num. 18. and Ezech. 44. do speak of the Priest Likewise Psalme 23. and Zach. 11. of Christ yet can they not properly be applied vnto the Pastor except we adde this that the Pastor must walke in the steps of the Priest and in the matters aforesayd bee a follower of Christe And that also Reue. 22. 2. forasmuch as it speaketh of the Church triumphant as the whole discourse doeth shewe it can hardly be brought to pertaine vnto the Pastor except wee saie that it is in regard that the ende of his ministerie is to bring the people of God vnto the assurance of this estate So that to fill the quotations vnto the matter wee haue great need of a friendly expositor Now in the office of a pastor heere is an addition to that which in the former place was mentioned that hee is to looke into the most secret thoughtes thereby discerning the diseases of his people which should seeme a heauy burthen for a man woulde thinke that the heart of man is a bottomlesse deepe and that no man could know the heart of man but the spirite that is in man and that God onely trieth the heart and the raines yet this is not so vnpossible as it doth appeare at the first sight For there are diuerse meanes which may bee be vsed for the readie attaining vnto the matter as the Papists for the same purpose had their auricular confession And yet there is a surer waie namelie to perswade the people as some haue beene taught it publikelie for sound doctrine that they may not come vnto the table of the Lord before they haue examined ned themselues of their secrete sinnes and also doe declare the same vnto the church that is not to the Priest as it was in poperie but to the Elders and people also and this is not a secrete butcherie of mennes soules as that was but an open tyrannising ouer the conscience Brownist The Doctors office is alreadie set downe in this description his especiall care must bee to build vpon the onely true ground-worke gold siluer and precious stones that his worke may endure the triall of the fire and by the light of the same fire reueale the timber haie and stubble of false teachers hee must take diligent heede to keepe the church from errours And further hee must aeliuer his doctrine so plainly simplie and purelie that the church may increase with the increasing of God and growe vp into him which is the head Christ Iesus Answere Our authors meaning is that the doctor do teach the truth and conuince the gainsayer All this we heard of before in the description of a doctor here then is no addition to supplie the wants of that discourse onely it is countenanced with a greater number of Scriptures then it had at the first and therein bewraieth a greater folly for the margent is pestered to no purpose For what doe these places cited tell vs Ezech. 33. 1. setteth out the dutie of a watchman 1. Cor. 11. 19. sheweth the necessitie of heresies Ioh. 10 11. speaketh of the shepheard Christ Leuit 10. 11. which also was alleadged for the pastor was spoken of the Priest as was Eze. 44. 24. and Mal. 2. 6. Paul 1. Cor. 1. 7. saith that the Corinths were not destitute of anie giftes Also in the 1. Cor. 2. 4. he speaketh of himselfe being an Apostle The two places of his Epistle to Timothie do shew his dutie in the Church of Ephesus where as these men saie hee had the function of an Euanglist Paul Ephe 2. 20. telleth them that they are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Heb. 6. and 1. Peter 2. 2. doe declare howe Gods people ought to growe vp more and more in the knowledge of Gods mysteries I see not how anie one of these places can directly prooue the office of a Doctor in the Church for either they do testifie the dutie of other callinges or else they shewe what matters are effected in the people by the ministerie of the pastor Now that place of Paul the first Epistle to the Corinthians the third Chapter and the eleuenth vearse I haue kepte it vntill the last place for that I finde it most of all abused not so much because it is restrained here to a Doctor and yet the Apostle spake it generally of all sortes of builders but for that the latter part of this Scripture is here expounded of false Prophets which is to bee vnderstoode of such teachers as alwaies keepe the foundation and builde in Christ howsoeuer thorough their frailtie and weakenesse they bee farre from that exacte puritie which is required in handling the worde of God Brownist The office of the ancients is expressed in their description their especiall care must be to see the ordinances of God truly taught and practised as well by the officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the congregation holilie and quietlie ordered and no man disturbed by the contentious and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances they must be readie assistantes to the pastor and teachers helping to beare their burthen but not intruding into their office Ansvver It should seeme that the drawer of this gouernement would haue the ecclesiastical censures onely to proceed frō the ancients or else he would in one place or other

haue shewed that they without the rest were not to determine and also that supreame authority should be in them to controll both teacher and people being themselues priuiledged from the cēsures of other The office of the Ancients saith he is expressed in the description and in deede the matters heere spoken if and some of the quotations as Numb 11. 2. Chron. 19. are but repeated againe I wil therefore passe them ouer now Meat twife sodden hath little sweetenes in it And as for the other places of Scripture I will not seuerally handle them because they haue so small force in them to proue the matter whereunto they are applied That in the twētith of the Acts 1. Pet. 5 haue serued for the pastor once or twise wherein as I woulde haue him consider that a man may weary his frends by vsing them too often so he is to remember that therein he maketh no difference betweene a pastor and an elder The residue of the Scriptures are these Deut. 16. 18. where the appointing of Iudges Deut. 10. 16. where the circumcision of the hart is commanded The Apostle sheweth Timothie his dutie 1. Tim. 3. 15. and 2. Tim. 1. 13. he reproueth contention 1. Cor. 11. 16. 14. 33. sheweth his affection to the Galathians Gal. 2. 4. and the creation of all things to be by Iesus Christ Colos 1. 16. but what are all these for an Elder If it were not that Rom. 12. 8. were a frende at all assaies we should haue had iust occasion to complaine that all these places were abused whereas now we say that one among a dossen is reasonably wel applied although it can not be proued that euen this place speaketh of such rulers as now are in question Brownist The Deacons office is faithfullie to gather and collect by the ordinance of the church the goodes and boneuolence of the faithfull and by the same direction diligentlie and trustilie to distribute them according to the necessitie of the Saincts Further they must enquire and consider of the proportion of the wantes both of the officers and other poore and accordinglie relate vnto the church that prouision may be made The releuers and widdowes office is to minister vnto the sicke lame wearie and diseased such helpfull comfortes as they neede by watching tending and helping them Further they must shew good example to the younger women in sober modest godlie cōuersation auoiding idlenes vaine talke and light behauiour Answere These offices with their marginal quotations haue bene already considered of therefore auoiding so manie vaine rehearsals I referre the reader to that which had bin said of them before Brownist These officers though they be diuerse and seuerall yet are they not seuered least there shoulde be a diuision in the bodie but they are as members of the bodie hauing the same care one of an other iointly doing their seuerall duties to the seruice of the Saincts and to the edification of the bodie of Christ till we all meete together in the perfect measure of the fulnesse of Christ by whome all the bodie being in the meane while thus coupled and knit together by euerie ioint for the furniture thereof according to the effectuall power which is in the measure of euerie parte receaueth increase of the bodie vnto the edifyinge of it selfe in loue Neyther canne anie of these Offices bee wanting without grieuous lamenesse and apparant deformitie of the bodie yea violent iniurie to the heade Christ Iesus Ansvvere In these wordes are set downe these principal points first that in Gods church euerie member is to seeke the good one of an other and also to further the good of the whole bodie Secondly that a iarre in the members causeth a confusion of the bodie In both these we agree and do allowe the ninth of Luke vers 46. c. and Ioh 13. 12. c. as good proofs for them although it is to be obserued that neither of these places doe speake of these officers for such there were not among the disciples Thirdly we are told that as euerie member is to performe the duties of his calling so is he not to intrude into the function of others vnto this I also condescend not for that our author saith it inasmuch as he will not frame his actions according vnto it for doctore nihil frigidius qui verbis tantum philosophatur He which teacheth in word onely is a simple instructer but therefore we beleeue it bicause we are willed to walke in our callings and to admonish those that are vnruly such as will not abide in that place wherein the Lord hath set them Fourthly he saith that the necessitie of these officers is such that whereas one of them is wāting there is a grieuous lamenesse and apparant deformity of the bobodie c. and this is proued by 1. Cor. 12 and Ephesians 4. In both which places as other giftes and offices are set downe to haue bene in the church as 1. Cor. 12. Apostles prophets gifts of healing diuersities of tongues c. And Ephes. 4. Apostles prophets and euangelists so are not all these officers required by our author in those places spoken of but in the place to the Ephesians the pastor and doctor onely and in the Corinthes though hee would indeuour to wring out elders and deacons from thense yet must hee acknowledge that his widdowes are not mentioned Our author therefore may as well say that the want of the Apostles Euangelists gifts of healing and the rest doe cause deformitie of the bodie and that by these places by himself alleaged as doth the want of Elders Deacons releeuers Nay it hath bene alreadie proued that this gouernement was neuer to be imposed vppon all sortes of people alike and that the want of some of these offices haue neither bene deformitie in the bodie nor iniurie vnto the head This rather is an iniurie offered vnto Christ Iesus if either a priuat man should thrust himselfe into a publike calling of the magistracie or ministerie without his warrant as these Brownists doe both or if a publike magistrate shoulde prophane Gods ordinances by placing insufficient men in so high a roome as is the gouernment of the church which must be done if this bee true which these men speake And thus much of the discipline whereby the visible Churche as they say shoulde bee gouerned for we are now once againe come to the conclusion of this part Brownist Thus this holie armie of Saints is marshalled here in earth by those officers vnder the conduct of their glorious Emperour Christ that victorious Michael Thus it marcheth in that most heauenly and gratious araie against all enemies both bodilie and ghostlie Peaceable in it selfe as Ierusalem terrible vnto them as an army with banners triumphing ouer their tyrannie with patience and ouer death it selfe with dying Thus thorough the bloud of that spotlesse