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A14369
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A stronge defence of the maryage of pryestes agaynste the Pope Eustachians, and Tatanites of our time, made dialogue wise by Iohn Veron, betwixte Robin Papyste, and the true Christian.
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Véron, John, d. 1563.
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1562
(1562)
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STC 24687; ESTC S106223
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65,756
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176
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did put awaye there wiues till the lorde who had coupled them did put them asunder I may then conclude and saye Conclusyon that we haue sufficient examples bothe in the olde and newe Testamente that pryestes whyche wante the gifte of chastitye oughte to marrye and haue wiues of theyr owne that they may kepe theÌ„ selues vndefiled members of our sauioure Iesu Christe Robyn Papyst Howe be ye able to proue that after they were ones called A foolysh obiection howe be it the Papystes be not ashamed to vse il they did company with theyr wiues after the fashion of the worlde thoughe they had them wyth them whether so euer they went The true Christian In good sooth neyghbour Answere neither ye nor al the prating papystes were euer pillowes or boisters vnto them for ro testifye of the same therefore leauing suche subtell questions vnto them that lyst to busy theyr braynes about suche vanities we will proue by playne and manifest scriptures that all priestes whiche haue not the gift of chastitye ought to marye Fyrst and formoste these be the wordes of the blessed Apostell Sayncte Paule i. Corin. vii For auoydinge of fornication let euerye man haue his wyfe and euery woman her husbande In this generall or vniuersall sentence They are I warrant you euerye enche of them Sayncte Paule doth comprehend all men as well pryestes as other excepte ye wyll saye that priestes are no men Therfore they are as well as all other men commaunded by Paule to haue wyues of theyr owne i. Cor. vii except they be made chaste from aboue Agayne they that can not absteyne let theym marrye Here doeth the Apostell geue generally a commaundemente vnto all them that can not absteyne that they should marye he excepteth none Therfore they that forbid mariage vnto anye persone vppon the earth whych can not liue wythoute it are felowes of them or rather the selfe same that sayncte Paule doth prophecie of i. Timo. iiii sayenge The spiryte speaketh euidently that in the later times some shall departe from the fayth and shall geue hede vnto spyrites of erroure and deuellishe doctrines of theym A conscience marked wyth an hot yron is an vnclene conscience defiled marked and prynted with many markes of worldelye lustes that speake false by hipocrisie And haue theyr consciences marked with a hot yron forbiddinge to marrye and commaunding to absteine from meates which god hath created to be receiued with thankes geuing Robyn Papyst But once preachers do saye that saynct paule doth here prophecie of certaine heretikes which afterwardes did most falsely affirme that mariage was instituted and inuented of the Deuell Suche were Tatius Martion and Manicheus of whom saynct Augustine doth speake in his booke of heresies Augu. in lib. heretico The true Christian Those heretikes did forbid mariage in general but your holy father the pope doth forbydde it in particulare Agayne there be certaine times in the yeare when by his lawes no man may marry Tatius Martion and Manicheus enemyes of matrimony Is not this to be a companyoÌ„ of Tatius Martion and Manicheus I say that the pope can not excuse him selfe but that he is a Tatianiste Martioniste and a Manichean and euen of the number of those heretikes that saincte Paule doth speake of there in the sentence afore alleadged Robyn Papyst The churche doth not forbyd maryage but it hath onely ordeyned Obiection that they whiche will be made pryestes should binde theym seluâ—s by a solemne vowe to kepe perpetuall chastitye The true Christian Is not the one as euell as the other Answere For it belongeth not to the Church to requyre any suche thinge of the priestes It is oure Sauyoure Iesus christe onely who is the onely Master and heade of his congregation and church to whom such autoritie doth pertaine As for the autority of the church it is limited by his word and can extende no farther than the word wyl permitte or suffer In the meane while both the pope all hys adherentes which either forbyd maryage to them selues or to any other are plaine Tatianistes Manicheans and Martionistes The Eustachians As farre as I remember there was a certaine kinde of heretikes whych were called Eustachians which dyd so abhorre mariage in the Ministers of the church that they wolde in no wyse receaue the communioÌ„ Oute of the counsel of Gangris at the hands of them that had wiues And againste them was a godly decree made in a councell that was holden at Gangris in the contrey of Paphlagonia Thys is the very decre it selfe He that maketh a difference of maried pryest as thoughe by reason of maryage he oughte not to offer or to minister the communion They that absteine form the communyon of a maried pryest are pronounced accursed doeth alredy absteine from his oblation let hym be accursed Arâ— they not then all by the vertue of this decree excommunycated and accursed that holde opynyon that maryed pryestes maye not mynister in the Churche of Chryste Though they be abomynable whore mongers adulterers drunkardes Meete champions to serue lady Missa blasphemous swearers fighters and blasers yet they wyll finde no faute wyth theyr oblation Yf they doe but once ringe the belles to theyr diuine and holye seruyce they wyll flocke vnto them as the sheepe doe to the folde But if they doe heare of a maryed mynister though he be neuer so well learned thoughe all hys studye is to set forthe purely and sincere lye gods holie and sacred worde Nothynge can set forthe the Pope shauelynges but feygned chastytie and to mynyster moste ryghtelye the sacramentes accordynge to the lordes instytution ordeynaunce thoughe his conuersation and liuing be altogether angelical that is to say most godlye and vertuous yet wyll oure pope Eustachians deteste abhorre to receiue the communion or any other sacrament at his handes thinking most vngodly that the maryed ministers of the church are more defiled and polluted by companienge wyth theyr owne lawefull wiues I my selfe haue hearde a great many saye so than if being vnmaried they should lye commonly with coÌ„mon whores and harlots of the stewes Yea the popes shauelinges their selues be not ashamed to saye that it is for them a lesse offence before god to lie with a hundreth harlottes than to haue wiues of theyr owne A verye substanciall argumente I assure you For say they if we haue neuer so many harlottes and take oure pleasure wyth them whensoeuer we lyst we maye repent the next day and being shriuen we shall obteyne at oure holye father the popes handes whiche is the vicare of god The Pope is the vicare of God here in earth and hathe absolute power to do what so euer he list free remission of our sinnes bothe a paena et culpa But if we haue wyues of our owne we shall liue in continual vnclenelinesse In deede good christian
reader they call matrimonye nothynge but vncleanelinesse pollution therefore that they call it a sacrament it is for none other thing but that they maye haue the handeling of it vnder theyr iurisdiction ia their spirituall court Esay v. and stinking pollution whereby it shall come to passe that we shall neuer be pure and cleane for to come to the altare of the lorde Who would not iudge I beseche you that such vyle persons are geuen ouer into a reprobate sence and that all godly knowledge and vnderstanding beinge by the righteous iudgement of god taken awaye from theym they do call that whiche is good euell and that whiche is euell good they do call lighte darkenesse and darkenesse lyghte esteminge that to be sweete which is soure and that whyche is soure to be swete In the sixt sinode or counsell that was holden kepte at Constantinople where it was forbidden The sixt Sinode holden at Constantinople that no man should take vppon him the vowe of single life and also commaunded that all they that for any ecclesiastical orders did put away their wiues should be put from the communioÌ„ of the faythful this holy decree was made If anye man presume contrarye to the rules and Canons of the Apostels to depriue anye pryestes or deacons Distinc 31. canon Quoniam in rom ordine from the touchinge and communion or felowshyp of theyr lawfull wyues let hym be deposed Againe if any priest or â—aâ—on doe for religion sake expel or put awaye hys wyfe let hym be excommunycated and if he perseuer in it let hym be deposed Manye other Canons and decrees mighte I aleadge that doe pronounce them to be accursed that either forbid priests to marrye or that goe aboute by vyolent and tirannous lawes to separate them that be alredye maryed in the lorde from theyr lawful wyues ¶ Robyn Papyst Obiection Those decrees and Canons haue bene abolyshed by the latter Concilles therefore they stand in no effect The true Christian Answere Howe shall then theyr doctrine stande where they saye that concels cannot erre Yf the later concilles do abolyshe the decrees and Canons of the olde auncyente Concilles then they must nedes graunte that they dyd erre The canons and rules of the Apostels els they wold not abrogate and put downe the decrees and Canons that haue bene made in them But nowe wyl we come to the Canons and rulers of the Apostelles whiche are set forthe vnto vs in the booke of god A byshop saieth Saint Paule muste be blamelesse the husbande of one wife i. Timo. iii suche a one as ruleth wel his owne house and such a one as hath hys children in subiection with all reuerence For if a man cannot rule hys owne house howe shall he care for the congregation of christ This shal ye haue in the third chapter of the Epistel to Timothee which chapter I wold faine haue you to reade through for there shal ye also find that both ministers and deacons oughte to be husbandes of one wyfe And besides that what qualities their wiues ought to haue The verye like shall ye haue in the fyrste Chapyter of the Epystell to Titus For Titus â— there the Apostell wryteth on this maner for this cause I left thee in Crete that thou shouldest ordeine elders in euerye citye as I had appoynted the. Gala. i. If anye be blamelesse the husbande of one wife hauinge faythfull children whyche are not flaundered of riot nor are disobedient These are the rules and canons of the holy apostelles for hauing all one spirite they did set forth all one doctrine whereby the elders or priestes of the christian church may law fully marrye And trulye if an aungell from heauen should teache any other doctrine contrarye vnto them I would coumpte him accursed ¶ Robyn Papyst Obiection But our preachers did saye that it is not the apostelles meaninge that a byshoppe must of necessitye be maried or that he must be maried wheÌ„ he is in the office of a byshop For Paule him selfe beinge a most excellent bishop was not maryed nor yet saynct Iohn the euangelist with many other that had bene byshops but that rather none that had had many wiues should be choseÌ„ to such an excellent office For so Chrysostome Ambrose Hierome and Theophylacte do expound the wordes of the apostell ¶ The true Christian When Cresconius Grammaticus did aleadge a certayne epistell of the blessed martir saynct Ciprian Aunswere for to mainteine his opinion and doctrine agaynst s Augustine Augu. contra Creiconi Gramaticum lib. 2. cap. 32. this holye byshop of God did aunswre him thus I am not moued with the auctority of this epistell for I do not take the letters of Cipriane as canonicall scriptures but I am wonte to trye his letters by theym meaninge the Canonicall scriptures and whatsoeuer in theym doth agree with the auctoritye of the canonicall scriptures I do with his prayse and thankes geuing receyue and embrace it and whatsoeuer doth not agre with the auctoritye of theym I do by his good leaue vtterly reiect and refuse it Euen so nowe will I aunswere you touching Chrisostome Ambrose Hierome and Theophilacte I do not take their writinges as canonicall scriptures vnto the which onely I do owe a consent without any contradiction or gaynesayenge but I do trye them by those heauenly and canonicall scriptures and whatsoeuer I no finde in theym to be grounded vpon the infallible worde of god the same do I with all reuerence due vnto such worthy men Aug. in epist ad fortunatianum de videndo deo embrace and receyue but if I finde any thing in theyr writinges and workes that doth disagree from the trueth of the holy and sacred scriptures geuynge them still the honour that such worthye members of the churche do deserue I do vtterly reiect and forsake it Which thing I intende to do in this text that we haue now in hand For by the leaue of holye Chrisostome and of theym all S. Paule doth not meane in this place that he whych hath bene the husband of one wife The argument of the papistes beaten vpon theyr owne Heades should be chosen to be a bishop but rather he that is the husband of one wyfe For els it should folowe that he which hath bene blamelesse not whiche is blamelesse ought to be promoted to the dignitie and office so that it were enough for him whoÌ„ they call to such an highe rowme if he hath bene blamelesse diligent sober discrete a keper of hospitalitye c. nor by their owne sayeng it is necessary requisite that he shuld be such a one neither wheÌ„ he is chosen nor yet when he is in the office it selfe For it shal be enough that he hathe bene suche a one alreadye Trulye neighbour the one doth stande with as good reason as the other Therefore I dare boldly say that the meaninge of the apostelles is that a byshop