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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	ancient_a	church_n	rome_n	2,350	5	6.9776	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A17985	Tithes examined and proued to bee due to the clergie by a diuine right VVhereby the contentious and prophane atheists, as also the dissembling hypocrites of this age, may learne to honour the ministers and not to defraude them, and to rob the Church. The contents heereof is set downe in the page next following. Written by George Carleton Batchelour in Diuinitie.	Carleton, George, 1559-1628.	1606 (1606)	STC 4644; ESTC S107556	55,614	94

almes and that the Ministers of the word haue right to nothing but should liue in high pouertie This opinion seemeth first to be brought by those who were called Waldenses vpon the abuse of Tithes which they saw vnder the Church of Rome It is recorded an opinion of theirs by a writer whose name is not expressed in the last aedition of Catalogus testium veritatis tom 2. lib. 15. This opinion Iohn Wiclif and his schollers receiued from them as he receiued matters of greater importance It is recorded the opinion of Iohn Wiclif by one Thomas Waldensis And among those articles of Iohn Wiclif condemned by the counsell of Constaunce this is one Art 18. Wiclifes Schollers held the same Iohn Hus a Bohemian William Thorp an Englishman as appeareth by their examinations recorded by maister Fox The same opinion hath beene since taught by Anabaptists and Trinitaries as may be seene in a booke de antithesibus veri falsi Christi Anno Dom. 1568. Albae Iuliae The second opinion is that Tithes are not due by Gods law that is a determinate quantitie is not prescribed in the word but onely as these men say a reasonable or competent maintenance is inioyned This is the opinion of them of the Church of Rome as Bellarmin declareth the same is much receiued among our latter writers of the reformed Churches which onely shew of a generall approbation in this opinion hath forced me many times I confesse to lay aside my pen thinking it much more safe to erre with this approbation then to striue for the truth against such a streame of gainesayers For I will not thincke that of our men who haue laboured in reformed Churches which others might say that they haue denied Tithes to be due to the Church vpon a detestation of popery wherein tithes were so much abused but this I thinke that they intending greater points of doctrine suffered this to lye lesse regarded and in a manner forgotten as a thing not altogether so necessary as those other points wherein they made especiall choise to labour Then the reuerend regard of their names their persons their labours being remooued from this question we take this opinion vnsound and of lesse probabilitie then the former The third is that tithes are due to the Ministers of the Church by the expresse word of God This is the iudgement of the auncient fathers from the beginning without crose or contradiction vntill the supreame authoritie of the bishop of Rome tooke them away by the meanes of impropriations This is the conclusion which we purpose heere God willing to confirme First we will refute the two former opinions then open the story of Tithes and confirme the point in question last wee will aunswere obiections The first opinion that tithes are almes implyeth also those seuerall braunches which Bellarmine for inlarging controuersies maketh seuerall questions or questionable errors That they are not to be payed to euill Ministers and that all ministers must resolue to liue in high pouerty as it was tearmed This opinion is thus ouerthrowen by the words of the Apostle Who goeth to warfare at any time at his owne cost who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit therof or who feedeth a flock and eateth not of the milke of the flocke The reason stands thus if he that goeth to warfare may of duty chalenge his wages of the people for whom he fighteth or he that planteth a vineyard may of duety challenge to eate thereof or hee who feedeth a flock may of duty challenge to eate of the milke of the flock then the Minister fighting for the people against their spirituall aduersaries planting a vineyard among them feeding a flock in feeding them may challenge of duty his reliefe not beg it as almes but the first is true therefore the second Out of which reason of the Apostle drawen from these examples it appeareth farther that by the law of nature the teachers are prouided for because by the law of nature he who goeth to warfare must bee prouided for by them who set him to that seruice by the law of nature hee who planteth a vineyard eateth of the fruit by the same law hee who feedeth a flock eateth of the milke If it bee said that almes are also to be giuen by the law of nature for answere wee must obserue this distinction betwene almes and that thing for which the Apostle heere pleadeth If almes be not giuen it is a breach of charitie but if this bee denied of which the Apostle speaketh it is a breach of iustice For as it is iniustice to denie wages to him whom you appoint to fight for you or to debarre a man from the fruit of that vineyard which he planteth or to denie him the milke of a flock which he feedeth so is it in like manner iniustice to denie the Minister that maintenance for which the Apostle pleadeth Now if it bee iniustice to denie the ministers maintenance then he hath a right and part in the goods of those whom hee teacheth for iustice giueth to euery man his owne and not one mans right to another whereby it is euident that the Minister hath a part and right in their goods whom he teacheth Now to take this is not to take almes but to take his owne So then by this reason almes are assuredly ouerthrowen because almes are not of duty and iustice to bee challenged as these things are therefore the Ministers maintenance standeth not by almes but by iustice as the souldiers wages stand not by almes but by iustice as by iustice not by almes a man may eate the fruit of a vineyard which he planteth or of the milke of his flock The same is confirmed by those words The labourer is worthy of his wages No man saith the begger is worthy of almes Now he that saith the labourer is worthy of his wages sayth that of iustice hee may challenge it not beg it as almes for in as much as it is wages it is due by iustice but no almes are due by iustice for so should we take away all difference betweene iustice and charitie therefore if almes no wages if wages no almes The second opinion faith not tithes but a competent maintenance is due by Gods law and this is vrged to be most agreeable to the Apostles times the words are onely altered otherwise this is the same with the former that saith that tithes are meer almes for this opinion bringeth in with it these consequences first that tithes as tithes are almes for he that denieth that they are to be payed of duty and iustice proueth them almes secondly that ministers may not claime any thing out of Gods word and this also proueth almes For he that saith to his parishoner tithes I cannot claim and therfore no certaine thing out of the word yet somewhat in conscience you should contribute vnto me what doth he else but leaue it to the choise

with the vse of these times whereof wee speake This the Waldenses and after them Iohn Wiclife did foresee and well vnderstood that if the practise of the Apostles be vrged in this point then assuredly nothing can be clamed but almes And therefore they vrging that vse did truely thereupon couclude that the ministers maintenance must be almes though they vrged those times without reason yet that being once graunted the other must follow Now let vs consider the reasons which the Apostles vse in mouing these contributions these reasons if a man consider them aright doe reach farther then they are applyed and indeed doe conclude another thing for seeing the contributions then practised were almes and the reasons confirme a due maintenance surely they confirme another thing then was practised at that time For example the reasons whereof wee haue spoken 1. Cor. 9. Who goeth to warfare at any time of his owne cost who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof or who feedeth a flocke and eateth not of the milke These reasons doe not so much proue that which then was in vse as another thing what that other thing is that is heere in question wee say tithes other say a competent maintenance but these reasons proue the ordinary maintenance of ministers due Now because tithes the ordinary maintenance could not bee payed without great incumbrance the reasons shew that in place thereof for a time some other thing must of right bee payed So the Apostle reasoneth 1. Cor. 9. 13. Doe you not know that they who minister about the holy things eate of the things of the temple and they who waite at the alter are partakers of the altar So also hath the Lord ordained that they who preach the Gospell should liue of the Gospell This reason concludeth very strongly for tithes and for nothing else for it must be graunted that the Apostles words concluding something certainely doe rather conclude that which was the ordinarie maintenance commonly receiued in the Church then that which was neuer in vse in the Church certainly not in those tymes Now tithes were ordinarily receiued in the Church as the ministers maintenance but this competencie as it is vrged was neuer in vse in the Church surely not in the Apostolike times Now it were hard to say that the Apostle reasoneth for such a thing as was neuer in vse Againe the Apostle saith the Lord hath ordained the ministers maintenance this ordinance is not indiuiduum vagum but some certaine thing beeing a part of gods worship Now we can say that tithes are the Lords certaine ordinance but who is able to say and proue so much for this competent maintenance As for the vse and practise of the Apostles times assuredly it was no perpetuall ordinance of the Lord but an extraordinarie vse for a time wee seeking the ordinary maintenance and this being extraordinarie to indure but for a short time shall neuer finde that which we seeke in the vse and practise of those times Then whereas the Apostle saith the Lord hath ordained that they who preach the gospell should liue of the gospell there must be some ordinance of the Lord shewed but none can bee shewed but either tithes or the vse of the Apostolike times therfore this ordinance must eyther be tithes or almes but not almes for this vse of the Apostles times were extraordinarie therefore the ordinary and perpetuall ordinance of the Lord for the ministers maintenance can be nothing else but tithes and that the reasons vsed by the Apostle doe in truth confirme tithes albeit they name not tithes it is the iugdement of diuers fathers as heere after may appeare Now that which standeth with best reason with the perpetuall and ordinary practise of the Church before and since Christs time and hath the full consent and testimonie of the auncients I prefer before that which standeth with no reason was neuer vsed in the Church and hath the testimonie of no auncient father CHAP. V. How Tithes stoode in the ages of the Church after the Apostles wherein the point in question is confirmed by the testimonie of fathers without contradiction vntill Antichrist by vsurped authoritie disordered the Church HOW long that communitie of all things lasted in the Church which began in the Apostles times wee cannot precisely determine but it seemeth to haue beene in some vse in Tertullians time for so hee saith omnia sunt indiscreta apud nos praeter vxores Eusebius laboureth to proue out of Philo that the Christians at Alexandria conuerted by Mark had all things common But the testimony of Philo speaketh of those who were called Essaei not of Christians yet that this communitie was long continued among christians it is out of doubt Some thinke that Vrbanus Bishop of Rome Ann. 223. did make some mutation in the vse of this communitie who first of all is reported to haue retained lands to the Church vse for whereas before we read Act. 2. 34. as many as were possessours of lands sold them and brought the price to the Apostles Afterward it was thought expedient for the perpetuall reliefe of the Church that such lands should not be sould and the price giuen but the lands themselues should be giuen to the Church Fassiculus temporum ascribeth this to Urbanus praedia caepit ecclesia possidere huius vrbain tempore de quibus clericis notarijs sumptus deputabant qui gesta martirum conscripserunt antea viuebant more Apostolico qui in actis Apostolorum scribitur Marsilius Patauinus saith likewise that Vrban was the first that possessed lands and temporalties yet it seemeth that vse began before Vrbanus his time if Gratian cite truely the words of Vrban Albeit there may be some question of the authoritie of this testimonie the credit whereof I will neuer seeke to salue yet because in a matter of story it agreeth with other stories of that time I thincke it not amisse for the stories sake to set it downe as it is in Gratian and in the first tome of councels Videntes autem summi sacerdotes alij atque Leuitae c. that is The chiefe Bishops and other and the Leuites or ministers and the rest of the faithfull perceiuing that whereas lands and inheritances were wont to be sold and the price giuen to the Church it might be more profitable if those lands and inheritances themselues were giuen to the Churches that are gouerned by Bishops because the faithfull that liue in common might better be serued and much more conueniently by the rents of such lands both for the present time and for the time to come then by the price in money heereupon those lands which before they were accustomed to sell they begunne to bestow vpon Cathedrall Churches and to liue of the rents Now these lands were within the priuiledge of euery such diocesses of the Bishoppes who hold the place of the Apostles and so the same lands are and for